What Rules Should You Set For the Addict/Alcoholic Living In Your House?

Hey guys. Apparently I was in the wrong stream yard, so sorry. Luckily Bri worked it out, just waved me down, said stop talking, you're in a not real place. So here I am. So sorry I'm late. Today I want to tell a story that's going to tie into sort of what family members do all the time around their loved ones who are. They either want to get sober or they have been to treatment and they're making sure they stay sober. When I was in the eighth grade, we moved from Scottsdale, Arizona to Montgomery, Alabama in the end ish of October. So that was, that was hard to do first of all, but we did was the first time we'd ever lived in the South. I was not yet nuanced to its fabulosity, but we moved and we did it. And my parents decided that we were going to go to church. We had grown up going to church, but it was like in embassies or it wasn't like real church because we didn't live in this country. So we went to the services that were offered to state department or military. And so they decided we're going to go to this really big church downtown in Montgomery. And they decided that we were also going to go to Sunday school and they were going to drop us off and then go do what they were going to do while we went to Sunday school and then they were going to pick us up. So it sort of just evolved that we were going to go to Sunday school and they were going to go have coffee or whatever. Whatever they did while we were at Sunday school, they didn't go in with us. So they, we start like probably the beginning of November by the time we've unpacked and made this choice. So the first Sunday they, they drop us off, we're all gussied up in our Sunday school finery in the 19, you know, 70s, that's what we did. And we dropped my little sister off in her first, second, whatever grade she was in, in her little classroom. She loved it. She went in, she was happy. And then Rob and I were supposed to go to the middle school, the junior high group, because that's where we were. And we went in the first time and we introduced ourselves and they weren't nice. They, they had a sort of a. A circle where everybody sat, pulled up their chairs and they wouldn't let us sit in the inner circle because we were not from Montgomery and we hadn't grown up in that church. And they were pretty bold about it. So they kind of made Us sit like behind them. And we, we struggled through this for like I don't know, two or three max Sundays. And then we were like, hell with this. And, but we knew better than to complain to my parents because they would not care. And they would, they would just say, you guys are good at moving. You guys are good at doing this. You've done it every other year for your entire lives. Suck it up. So we just didn't tell them. So every Sunday we would. First of all, if my parents weren't up by 9:15, it wasn't going to happen. They didn't have enough time to get everybody corralled Sunday school, clothed, breakfasted, whatever, and be out of the door by 10. 10:15 to start. 10:30 Sunday school. So I can remember lying there with like, like mouse, like quiet, like just not even rustling the sheets, reading quietly so that they would maybe, maybe, maybe sleep and, and not take us. But 9 times out of 10, 9:14am Click open their door and I'm like, damn it, here we go. So there's that. So anyway, we would get up and we would go and we drop Julie off and then after that third time or so, and I would walk straight through the church past our Sunday school room and go out the back door and just sit on the curb and talk. We know, tell jokes, make plans. We were all kinds of crazy. We rode our bikes and got shrimp cocktail at the Piggly Wiggly and, and the little tiny glass jars in the back of the store. And then we would sit on the railroad tracks and eat them with the little wooden forks. So we would talk about, you know, our little, you know, 12 and 10 year old plans. We did this for two, two years until we moved away from there. And we never told our parents. We just did it consistently and, but to me, you know, I don't to this day can quite figure out why they did that. Maybe they thought we needed it. Maybe it was the right thing to do. Maybe they were going to grow up to be heathens. I don't really know. But we did it. But to me it was box checking. Okay, so box checking is something that we, anyone wants someone else to do for a reason, but it's what we want them to do. Family members do this all the time. And if you're a client of mine, you know, like I talk about it all the time. Like that's box checking. So here's some examples of what you guys do. What we all did is you had to go to a meeting, you got to get a sponsor you got to get a counselor. You might even have to go to church or get a job. And if people get super specific, that's almost like the contract. You know, the dreaded contract. You have to go to five meetings a week. You have to have a sponsor within the first 12 days. You have to go to counseling at least twice a month. Like these sort of numerical attachments to box checking plans. But what this does, you guys, is it accomplishes two things, and neither one of them are good. In fact, they're both bad. The first one is it keeps the family members reeling. It keeps everything in a hierarchical. Like, did you go to your meeting? Did you. How many times did you talk to your sponsor? It's like, keeps us in this sort of management policeman role. That's not good, because that. What that does for the family members is that keeps them in what I call the reeling stage of their own recovery, which is. I'm just pinging around like a pinball here, trying to. Trying to keep my. My loved one sober or get my loved one sober in the reeling space. Then this is like, I talk about this a lot in our membership. Um, it's a. It's a really helpful thing I do in our advanced parental group is sort of look at how do we move from the reeling phase to the thriving phase. Because the reeling phase is dangerous for us. It's not good for us. It does absolutely no good. It just makes us feel like, I don't know, hamsters in a wheel. But we feel like we're doing something that's not helping us at all, nor is it helping our loved one. And the second bad thing that this does is this is really bad for our loved one, the person who's struggling with the addiction, because it makes feel controlled. And control is one of our five basic human needs. So if we don't feel like we have control, we'll take it in a negative way. So it could even twist around and be a justification for continued ongoing use because, well, you're trying to manage me and you're trying to control me. So I'll show you, and I'll. I'll just keep using. But also, super importantly, makes the addict continue to do what we call addictive behaviors or maintain addictive thinking. And that's lying and sneaking. Okay? Those are things we don't want to do. I always tell people, don't ask them a question if you think you don't. That they're going to lie about the answer, because it's just feeding that lying muscle in our Brain, which is how addiction gets Pac man points. It thrives on shame. So lying and sneaking, those are really shameful behaviors. So you don't want to do that at all. Okay? You cannot force recovery. You just simply cannot force recovery. And this is where Hope for Families excels because we focus on the family and we help you guys not do the above. So I think that that's really something for you to look in the mirror and say, am I doing that or would I like to do that? Or does that make me feel better if I do that or do I. Am I told I should do that? A lot of times treatment facilities will. They'll force the contract, and they'll make the parents sign a contract and hammer one out and then hold it. They. They are. I just can't tell you how strongly I don't like contracts. Like, they don't work. So I think it's for you guys. One of the greatest benefits of, of joining our, our family and becoming a member of, of Hope for Families is that you can reach out to us every single week at 1:30. Currently 1:30 on Wednesdays, Kim or I are on live for an entire hour. And if we don't have anything going on, like last week, it went for an hour and 15 minutes. Usually an hour, though. But you can jump onto those group counseling sessions that are held every week to get answers to your questions of what should I do? Should I do this? Should I not do this? Why should I not do this? What will happen if I don't do this? Will they stay sober if I don't have all these boundaries or rules about what they have to do? And you know, you know, I talk about all the time like, boundaries are what you'll do, rules are what you want them to do. You cannot enforce rules with someone who's an adult unless you ultimately, ultimately are going to hold the boundary of you can't live here unless you follow or unless you follow the rules. And 75 to 85, maybe even 90% of the people I talk to are not going to do that. So then I'm like, then why do you have all these rules? Because you're not going to enforce them. So bear in mind that that's that box checking recovery is really for you. It's not going to keep anyone sober at all. And it eventually turns around and bites you in the fanny because it's bad for you and it's bad for them. So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. So see if we have any Questions. That I need to answer. There might not be any. See some comments. Yeah, this is the one I just was looking at. This is from someone who's like, once, please put some more content for people struggling with addiction. For months there's been no content for the individual with addiction. Well, there's a ton of it out there already. There's 800 videos and a lot of it is about the addict. But we focus on the family and that's sort of the thrust. That's sort of where we're shifting is how to support family members and not focus on content. There will be content, but it's not going to be our focus. So our focus is on spouses, partners, parents, people who are trying to like, figure out how to live with this or help their loved one get sober. So that's sort of where hope for families is. But there is plenty out there. Like, there's a lot out there in all those videos that are out there already. We also have a ton of stuff that's available for the attic, like recovery U30 day, jump start. We have those things that people can access as well. So there's. There's a ton out there. Okay, so here's a question. If we don't start box checking, what do we do if we don't do box checking. Oh, good. This is a million dollar question, Anna. The only thing you can do is stay connected to your loved one, support them, empathize and validate with them when they're on the struggle bus and know what boundaries you actually want to have. And the only boundaries that you want to have are the ones that you are going to enforce. So I go, I say sort of talk to them with curiosity, not agenda, because box checking is 100% your agenda. Right? This is what you. This is, these are the rules. This is what you have to do that I've decided you have to do. So, so unbox checking or not box checking is the opposite of that, which is, hey, how are you doing? Like, it seems like you are doing really well. I'm wondering what your secret is. It seems like you're struggling a little bit. I'm wondering if there's some things you could change that that might help you. I'm wondering if you could reach out to your counselor in treatment or one of your friends that's in recovery and sort of get some guidance. You can, you can talk like that, you can be curious, but you can't make these boxes. They have to check in order to fulfill your needs. You really, like I said, you cannot force anyone's recovery, and you cannot manage it. It's theirs to do or not to do. The only thing you can do is hope, pray, and be super supportive. Like, you have to recognize that, like, you. If they're going to. If they're going to use. I remember clearly, if you've watched my videos, you've heard this story before, but I remember clearly Amber saying to me, like, Campbell, you can sleep in front of the front door, and Frank can sleep in front of the back door. And you can hire someone to sleep in front of those French doors leading out to the. The screen porch. You can build a moat around your house. You can put the Berlin Wall on the other side of the moat. You can hire 55 killer guard dogs to live between the moat and the Berlin Wall. I guess it'd be called the Noood Mall. Well, but if he's going to go and he's going to use, he's going to go. And that is. That's the truth. I talk, tell parents this all the time. Like, no, he's not using. He's hasn't left his room. Like, does this room have a window? They're like, yeah, like, well, his friends are throwing the drugs through the window. Like, it's. They're so much cleverer than we are. Down chimneys, through windows, hidden in bushes. It's. There's like a weird. I don't even know what it is. Like, drug addict, alcoholic TomTom system where they can say, hey, my parents are on top of me. My spouse is watching me like a hawk. I can't get out. I can't get it. And people are, well, we'll bring it to you. Like, it's. It's amazing. So you have to bear that in mind. And that's where that gets you also out of that reeling phase, which is you got to go towards yourself. You got to be. You gotta. And I talk about this in the. In the parenting thing in our membership. You gotta learn. You gotta know what you're dealing with. You got to know what your resources are. You got to know what your plan is that this person continues to use. You have to build your plan once you've learned. And then you just sort of have to wait and say, okay, I know what I'm going to do, and I have a plan for if and when I need to do it. So I'm not going to babysit this thing anymore because I'm killing myself for not. And that's where you start that thriving, which is, I'm going to go toward myself and. And when we get sick and tired of being sick and tired, and we do start to go toward ourself, and we do start to hold boundaries, and we do remember that we liked to have lunch with friends. That's when they will change. That's when it's possible that they will change. As long as we're just micromanaging this and coming up all the rules and going craz and, you know, bargaining and doing all the things that we do that we're just feeding the disease, they're just going to keep doing. They're just going to keep going on their married little way because they can. Because we're so sick and tired that. I mean, we're not so sick and tired that we aren't helping. We aren't actually feeding it. So know that like those, those four phases that I talk about, those are pivotal to understand. Identify where you are in those and start to dig yourself out of the reeling phase with the goal being thriving. But shoot, you're. You'll be a boatload happier if you can get a reeling and into even learning and planning. Like, that's going to make you feel so much less anxious and so, so much less crazy. All right, Lucy. I don't want to be. Lucy is saying I don't want to be around you when you're intoxicated. Is rule a boundary? My alcoholic husband follows me on their house when he's intoxicated. Trying to start an argument. It's a rule. If you, if you are just saying it and he's following you around. It's. It's not a rule that's going to work. The, the way you would flip that to a boundary, Lucy, would be to say, I am not going to be around you when you're intoxicated. And then you get in your car and drive away. Like, don't let him chase you around the house. Just say, I'm sorry. I love you dearly, but I am no longer going to be in this conversation. You, the boundary. What makes it from a rule to a boundary is that you take action. Okay? You leave the scene of the crime. In this case, you do whatever. Like, the boundary is. I am in charge of my position, my stance in this very situation. That's a boundary. So because yours is sort of really the rule of I don't want to be around you, which means don't be around me. Intoxicated. He's not listening to you. It's not working. All right, Jennifer. Hey, Jennifer. My husband is currently in a 28 day clinic. They wrote me asking me to fill out a list of events that have happened in the past. Not sure why. We have an 11 years of events. Why would they need this list? Not specifically sure, but my guess would be this might be sort of their form of an impact letter. A lot of these places want. I don't really agree with this, but I'm not running a treatment center. So they, they want the person, the person in treatment to sit and, and sort of hear witness, read what, what their addiction has done to their loved one. I'm pretty sure they know. But anyway, that's probably what that is, is there? It's their version of an impact letter where they want to sort of go over. When he says it hasn't really been a bit that big a deal. I don't really even know why I'm here. Which is probably what you're saying is in this eight, well, this happened and this happened and this happened, this happened and this happened and this happened. So let's revisit whether you have a problem or not. That could be. That could be it. I don't know. That's my theory. The therapist knows us. This is continuation for Jennifer. The therapist knows us. We have five years working with her. It's my understanding as support, we're not supposed to do things like this because it causes more shame. I'm afraid to. I don't know what the follow up to that is. You know, I don't know. If you know the therapist, then I'd ask her, you know, can you explain to me what the purpose of this is and then get some clarification and understanding around that that would help you answer the question. Kimberly, are there certain markers to look for for when to allow my husband back home from sober living? What are my markers? You know that, that's a fabulous question. My, my biggest markers are humility and willingness. If I, if I see somebody with humility and willingness that I know we are, we are in recovery because they. It takes a boatload of humility to recognize that you are powerless over something. And it takes a lot of willingness to do what you're being asked or recommended to do by the professionals around you to keep you sober. So those are the two hallmarks. Markers. I like your word. You know, I think you just have to gauge conversations. Is he, Is he, Is his limbic brain coming back into play? Like, is he asking about you? Is he, you know, what would you like for your birthday? What would you like for Christmas? How are you feeling? Those Kind of conversations. Also, if you can get him to weave into a conversation, not create box check boxes for him to check. But what does he plan to do for his recovery when he gets home? When he goes from sober living to home? You know, I always do this sort of concentric circle model. So if he goes from sober living to home without keeping a boatload of the things in place that he's using in the sober living, like meetings and sponsors and fun activities with sober friends and, you know, sort of the world that he's building, hopefully in sober living, how much of that is going to come with him? That would be a really good indicator to me that, that it would be a good time and maybe a smooth transition. If he's. And so we're living in a different city and he's coming home, then that's going to be a problem. Unless he comes home, like for a day at a time or so and goes to meetings and begins to build up that support network that he will already have in place when he gets home from sober living. That's the key is whatever he's going to do needs to be in place. So that's why I always say, like, where we hope for families in general say, you know, the more that stays, other than where they put their head at night, the more that stays in place is, is better. Like if they have the same meetings, same things I already, you know, went through, those are the people that do the best when there's a boatload of change. Addiction loves change. And everyone says, when I get to this new place, I will find a sponsor, I will go to meetings. And then they go three or four or five days without doing it because they're home and they're, you know, just recuperating and getting back into their normal life. And then the disease says, oh, you haven't done it in five days and you haven't used, so you probably don't need to do any of that. And here comes the. The unraveling process now begins. All right, we got probably one more time, one more question. What about having an adult child living back in the home and not have them drink when in the house? Is that a rule for them to live in the house? That's a rule. That's a good question. Yes, that would be a rule. You know, I just don't think it's a good idea to bring adult kids back home because it throws us right back into this hierarchical parent child role, even no matter how old the child is. And so that, that sets it up already for going to be problematic if it's very short amount of time, like 30 days while they work and pay for their save their money to put their deposit down in their apartment or something like that. Maybe. But already the fact that you're saying that you don't want them to drink in your home already telling me that this is not a good ide. Because that's a rule. The only time it's be a boundary is you said if you drink in our home, we will ask you to leave that day. So that's tough to do. Plus then you might have to go through the whole eviction process because some states once you live at home, you're home whether it's been two days or 20 years. So I don't know where you live, but check on that as well. Maybe, but it's a rule. Do we have one more? I can squeeze one more in in three minutes. Nope. Okay. All right. No squeezing. All right. Thanks so much, you guys. It was super nice to to do this. And we are going to be on every day this week. I. I know Monday through Thursday at 1 o'. Clock. Friday's time is a little bit up in the air. I need to clarify that with Kim. But tomorrow be Kim, Wednesday will be me, Thursday with me and Amber. Friday will be Kim again. So this is our launch week for our membership. We are super excited to be offering this out again. If you enroll between now and Friday, you get the three extra things that will come with that which I'm supposed to know. One is advanced recovery skills for parents and spouses and partners. One is a deep dive into the psychology behind the neurobiology of addiction. And the other is. I'm sorry, Amber. Something great. Something really, really great. I'll make sure Kim mentions it tomorrow. But anyway, get those three things if you get. If you join between now and Friday the 10th. Have a great week. It was good to see you guys. Bye.