What's It Really Like To Get Sober- The No BS Guide

This is your no BS guide to what it's really like to get sober. Now, I know you're thinking, amber, we know you're an addiction counselor. You're trying to make everybody get sober, and you're trying to make it sound all great. But I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna sugarcoat this for you. I'm gonna tell you for real what to expect from getting sober. I have been through this process with hundreds, I mean, actually probably thousands if you count all the years I worked at the hospital of people. And I have a pretty good idea about all the different stages and mindsets that you're going to go through on your journey to getting there. Now, when I was thinking this out and putting all this in order for you, I know in my. I thought to myself, they're going to want the dates and the timelines, because naturally, just like anyone would, it would be like, how long does that part last? We all want to know. I would want to know, too. So I'm going to give you some, like, days, timelines, numbers, and they're as accurate as I can get them. But don't pay as much attention to how many days something lasts to the actual feelings and the stages, the psychological stages and physical stages that you're going to go through, because that I can pretty much predict for you what's going to happen and mostly in what order. The days, those depend a little bit, can flex around, depends on what's going on with a person and. And some other things. But the stages are the stages. That's what I'm saying. All right, so before we get started, those of you who are watching live, thank you for joining me live. I appreciate you taking the time out of your day. We have been doing a thing where we allow someone to come on after I did teach the lesson. Then we will take a couple questions and let someone come on. If someone wants to. To join us, talk about their situation today, if possible. What I would really like, if anyone wants to join that actually has gotten sober in your life and you've been through some of these stages, we would love, love, love to have an expert witness. And you can tell us from your own personal experience what it's like. And if I, If. If you disagree with anything I say, that is totally fine. We want you to tell us what was like for you, how long things took, if you can remember it. Because for people out there thinking about, you know, should I get sober? There's a term for that now. It's called sober curious. Don't you like that? I kind of like it. For those of you out there who are sober, curious, you want to know, what's it going to be like? Like, is it going to be terrible? Because when you're thinking about getting sober, initially you think, I don't even know if I want to live my life. Like, that just sounds like it sucks. And you think it's just going to be a boring, terrible, awful life. That's what you think initially when you're thinking about getting sober. The problem is you're thinking about that through the lens of what it's like right now when you're sober. And the problem with that is on the days when you're sober, during your active addiction state, you're in a little bit of withdrawal. You may be in a lot of withdrawal, but you're in some level of withdrawal if you have an addiction. Even if it's not like, I need to go to detox withdrawal, you are in withdrawal when you're sober. So you associate that state of being with what it's like to be sober. And that's not the best association because that's what it's like to be withdrawal. And that does suck. And I don't blame you for thinking, I don't want to feel like this forever. And do I even want to live life if every day is going to be like this? I don't blame you for thinking that. But it does get better. It does take a minute. And it's not all great and gravy and wonderful, but we're going to talk about what to look at and what to expect. If you are watching and you think you might want to share some about your story, put a number in the chat from 1 to 100. We will use our number picker and that's how we'll select somebody to come on totally random number picker. So the first week of getting sober, there ain't nothing good about it. It just sucks. You feel ill, you feel sick. That feeling sick could range from just feeling like you have the flu, like you can't sleep, like you're just not good, all the way up to feeling, like, really, really, really sick and maybe even needing some medical intervention level of not feeling good. You. You can. You can pretty much count on, doesn't even matter what the substance is. You can pretty much count on your anxiety is going to be crazy and you're going to feel physically not great, and you're going to have difficulty sleeping. I have never helped anybody through any kind of addiction that did not at least have some sleep disturbance for the first several weeks of that process. So I'm going to tell you now that is going to happen. Now. Sometimes you can get some help getting through those first couple of weeks of getting sober. Probably not going to be able to take it all the way, but sometimes you can manage some of those symptoms and side effects. So think through that. That's something you have to consult your doctor about. Like, you know, is there something you could do to help yourself sleep and all that kind of stuff. So expect the first week to be crappy. The second week you start to sort of like physically feel a little better. But you in a bad mood, you're grumpy and you're cranky and you're super thin skinned and you're mad at the world and you definitely irritated and resentful of anybody you feel like maybe is kind of like pushing you in this direction. Maybe even at your counselor, it's just like, I don't even want to talk to you. I'm just like, you're just, you're done with it at that time. That second week you just feel emotionally a mess. And that's because even though you're out of maybe like the acute withdrawal, your brain chemicals are going to be stabilizing out for quite some time. And that second week there's a lot of emotional roller coaster, brain chemical neurobiology stuff going on. So expect to be cranky and thin skinned if you are watching this from the family member perspective. If you're. Sometimes people will say, you know, my husband, you know, this is his ninth day and I'm sober and I say how's he doing? And if they don't tell me that you've been feeling crappy and irritable, I'm like, I don't know, I doubt it. Makes me doubt it because I would expect for it not to be great the second week, but it's not. It's not unbearable the second week, but it's not pleasant. Now when you get to about week three, you do start feeling some better. But you also get like this doubt creeping into your head because it, you know, three weeks ago when you decided to get sober, probably there was something big happening in that reason for getting sober or motivation for getting sober. It was still like really fresh, whatever that was, whether it was positive, negative, doesn't matter. And you were sort of like really committed. But by week three, you know, you've been through a couple weeks of not feeling great, you feel better now, but you, but you still don't, like, feel great, and you still don't, like, love being sober or anything. And so you. You start to kind of, like, make these little bargains and deals with yourself. And you start thinking, I just don't know if I can do this forever. I don't know if I want to do this forever. And, you know, I don't even know if it's really necessary for me to do this forever. Maybe I just need a little reset. And so you start having these little bargaining conversations with yourself about, like, how maybe I'll just stay sober for 30 days or 60 days or 90 days or something like that. And, you know, that'll be good because it'll be reset. And when I go back out there and use whatever I use, I won't. You. I won't do it like I did before. Like, I'll keep it contained. This will be a good reset period for me. So you start deciding around that third week or so. I'm kind of doing this forever, but I'll do this a little longer because I know I need to. You. So you start kind of, like, taking it back a little. Then you get to about 30 days or so. I've got notes over here if you see me looking. And by 30 days or so, you actually notice that you actually feel better. Like, you have more energy, your sleep is probably getting a little better, you're more productive, and you can actually see, like, a noticeable difference, that you're like, hey, I function better now. Like, I'm breathing better. You just feel better in general. And. And you kind of start to feel a little bit proud of yourself. Now. A lot of people, when they get to that 30 days, they think, okay, great, I made my 30 days. And if you'd made that deal yourself, like, in week two or three about, I'm only gonna make it to 30 days, you might fall off here. Hopefully you don't, because there. It just gets better from here. But so if you. If you fell off, you're probably gonna have to go back through those weeks to get back to here. If you don't. If you don't fall off, things really do start to kind of, like, look up. You. You really actually are very aware that you're functioning much more. Much more better. Is it. That's. That's appropriate language, right? Much more better once you get into the 30 days plus. But you still have that little voice that's in the back of your head being like, I don't know about this forever kind of thing. And you do have More energy and you're more productive, but you probably aren't totally motivated and excited about life yet. Even though that's coming back a little bit, it's not fully there yet. And you also have this other thing going on where you're really worried about being judged and criticized for being sober. I know your family members, if you're watching this family member, you're like, what? I thought you worry about being judged and criticized for having an addiction. No, you worry about being judged and criticized for being sober. Because the lifestyle, when you're an active addiction, you have sort of embedded yourself in a lifestyle of using. And so probably most of the people that you hang out with, like your friends and everybody else, you know, they, they sort of do it too. And you've been kind of on this side of the fence and you wor that all those people are going to judge you because probably, to be honest, when you're on this side of the fence, you probably judged the people that were over there on the sober side of the fence and you thought, God, they're lame. Like, I, I don't even go. I don't know why they want to live that way. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people in recovery that are sober tell me. When I was an active addiction and I saw people that look like they were having fun and enjoying life and like, just being with their family or whatever, they're like, I didn't even believe it. I thought they were just lying. I thought they were just putting on some mask because I didn't even, I was like, whatever. That dude is just fake. That's what people in active addiction think about people that are sober, that look like they're having fun, that are enjoying doing normal things. You're like, I don't even believe that crap. That's a bunch of bull. That's what you think. But you have this fear of, like, what are people going to think when I'm sober? And so probably when you're at this stage, you, you come across some situations where you have to let people know you're not going to drink or you're not going to do whatever, but you may not be saying exactly why and you, and you may not be saying that, like, this is like a, a thing. Now. You, you probably are given some, like, little excuses about why you're not drinking or using or engaging in the behavior. And that's okay because at that point you're still a little bit worried. And mostly you kind of avoid talking about it by about 60 days in, you actually start to feel kind of proud of yourself. You noticeably feel physically better. You noticeably feel psychologically better. And your life actually is getting a little easier. And you're noticing how nice it is not to have to be constantly worried about that other shoe dropping. Now you know what I'm talking about when I say the other shoe dropping. Like your lie getting found out. Like seeing the police car behind you and thinking, oh my gosh, hope he doesn't pull me over. Like, I hope I don't get pulled for a random drug test at work. That constant kind of like anxiety that hangs over you because you, you know that any minute the whole roof could fall in on you because your whole house of cars is just bare. You know, it is like fragile. And you know at some point it's going to happen. So you, you don't even realize how heavy that anxiety and worry is that you're carrying around until you get to take it off of your shoulders because it's just such a normal part of your everyday. And so you kind of get. Grateful is the right word, that you don't have to worry about that anymore. But you still have this little voice in the back of your head that says, maybe one day I can use socially, I can drink manageably, I can go back to using this substance as long as I don't use that substance. You still have a little voice back there. But you, you try not to like, get in that part of your brain much, but it's still back there talking to you every now and then. Then I think when you get to about 90 days or so, you start to feel overall glad that you're sober. And this, I think this stage is a, a huge shift. This is almost like a spiritual shift, I think that happens. And like I said, I don't know if it's going to happen to you on day 90. I just know these things are going to happen to you in about this order, okay? But at some point you're gonna be grateful that you're sober and you're going to be looking back and you're going to be like, I don't know how I function like that. And you're going to be around either your old using friends or other people that are doing what you used to do, and you're going to recognize it for 100 miles away. And you're going to be able to just look at somebody and tell how they feel and how they think, and you're going to be like, I'm glad that's not me anymore. And either because you. You know how miserable it is, or because you're looking at this person thinking this person's making a bunch of mistakes and they think they're cool, but it's not cool, you know, and you're just going to have a completely different lens on it. And some of that I'm missing out thing starts to finally fade away. Because up until this part, you feel like you're being robbed of something in life that everyone else gets to have and that you don't. And you feel a little resentful about it and frustrated about it, but eventually you don't feel like you're missing out. And eventually you feel super grateful that you do not have to deal with that any more and that it is behind you. And you start to think, oh, my God, like, I never want to go back to feeling like that and being in that situation. And so it's not a missing out feeling, because now you can recognize what you have now that you were missing out on before. Because before, when you're an active addiction, you're missing out on everything else. Everything else. Now, I told you, this is the no BS God. So I'm going to tell you that not everything about being sober is fun and wonderful. And some things you enjoyed before you were sober, you won't enjoy anymore. Like if you got sober and you quit drinking, you're not going to enjoy hanging out at the bar for long periods of time or hanging around other people who are drinking for long periods of time. It may or may not trigger you to want to drink. Some people it does, some people it doesn't. But I can tell you, you won't find it entertaining or energizing for any length of time. Like you might can tolerate it for, you know, 30 minutes or something, but after that, it's just annoying and you don't want to deal with it. There are other activities that probably won't be as fun, like going to concerts or tailgating or things like that. I'm just gonna be honest because I said I would. Those things are not gonna be fun. But guess what? Everything else in life is actually going to be fun. This is the part where people just don't believe me. The part where I say you're gonna enjoy and like normal people things. Now, I always tell people that at the very beginning, trying to show them there's a little light at the tunnel. And I know they never believe me, but that's okay. I'll tell it to them anyways. Now, between 90 days and a year, you have some recovery. Like you're starting to build new habits and processes, I guess is what I want to say. So it. It stops being your first instinct to do the old behaviors. And it's not like you can't fall back into the old behaviors. But it's not a constant fight, because by 90 days or so, you're building new habits, new routines, new ways you do things, new ways of thinking about things. Your emotions are stabilizing out a bit, and it can get smoother. Now, life is never perfect, but after you have about 90 days, even when life throws you those curveballs, you feel a little stronger and resilient and able to deal with those things. So it's not that everything is wonderful. You just have a better capacity to cope and problem solve, make decisions and address problems in your life that you did not have before. So you're gonna have all that going up until, like, first year. After the first year, it's just like a new you. And you have a hard time even remembering. I mean, you kind of remember the old you, but it feels like another person. Even though it's only been a year ago, it feels like a whole nother person because you're going to feel like a thousand percent different now. Getting to this place is a journey. But you will get to this place. I promise you. You will get to this place if you stick in there. The yesterday, I was seeing clients all day yesterday. I do that on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. And I had several. Several of my clients yesterday were just sort of in the later phases. You know, I see people who are not even sober yet, who are not sure they want to get sober. I've seen people who are just getting sober. And then I have some people I've seen for a while, and they're like on the good end down here. And all in all of these clients yesterday who have been doing good for a while, some for like a year, some of them for like six months, you know, different amount of times. But they're all in this place. And I know they're doing wonderful. You want to know how I know they're doing wonderful? It's not because they're telling me they're not drinking and using it. They are telling me that. But that's not why I say you're doing great and wonderful because you could be lying to me about it. I mean, come on. But I know that they're not. And the reason I know that they're not is because they're coming in and they're talking to me about all these things in their life that they're excited about and interested in. And it's funny, because when I was hearing some of these people talk to me yesterday, you know, one of them was telling me about how they were, like, all excited because it was Thanksgiving last week, and they're gonna make this special recipe for something, this thing, and they. They like, three, four times, and they had to get it just perfect. The fact that he had that much interest and enthusiasm in making a side dish for Thanksgiving dinner and explained it to me in that much detail with enthusiasm. I'm like, this person is not an active addiction. Because when you're an active addiction, you do not have the capacity to feel excited about making a side dish for Thanksgiving dinner. And if you are an active addiction, I know you don't believe that that is even possible, but it is. I had, you know, other. Other ones were telling me how their Christmas lights they put outside and how, like, they had the best house on the street and all this fun stuff and how they're excited about that. Again, this is how I know someone's in a good place. Another one was telling me about how they have this new puppy, and they're all involved in training this puppy, and they're telling me all the steps and all the things they're doing and how cute the puppy is and show me all these pictures. And this is how I know someone has gotten into the good state. I'm not saying that they're, like, bulletproof or that they can't ever go back. If they start to listen to that little voice inside that says, oh, you can do it just a little, they gonna go all the way back if they start believing that. But if they don't, they're gonna continue to, like, enjoy their relationships, have the ability to be present in the moment, in conversations with people. Look forward to things. Right? Look forward to your vacation. Look forward to meeting that goal that's been so important to you. And you can do this because you're off of the treadmill of active addiction. When you're on that treadmill, it is. It's survival. And looking at it from my point of view, you know, talking to people. Usually when I first start talking to people, they're still using, and so they're miserable. You know, they're telling me, like, I don't be controlled, and I like what I'm doing, and people need to get off my back. But I'm looking at this person. You're not gonna find more miserable people than people in active addiction. They're unhappy, they're depressed, their anxiety is crazy. They have bucket loads of problems going on. They feel like they have all these mental issues because they do, because the substances will make you have them if you didn't have them before. And they don't like themselves and they don't like many people around them. And then I decided about pretty much anything. And so you can't see or know the difference until you get far enough out of it to feel the other side. One of my clients this week was just brand new in it just. Just look like a few weeks sober. And he's in that, like, I don't know if I'm gonna do this forever phase. He's like, you know, I don't know, it's just hard to think about doing it forever. And I said, well, I don't want you to think about doing it forever. But what I would like for you to do is I would like you to think about doing it long enough to get to the good part. And if you can get to the good part and stay in the good part for a little while, then we can talk about it and you can make a decision. Because you can't make a decision. You've done been on this side of the fence. You know what's over there. But it's not fair to say you don't like this when you haven't done this long enough to get past the crappy part and into the good part. And then we'll talk about what you're missing out or not missing out on. But until we get to that part, you're not. You don't really know. You're not really making an informed decision. So I try. I was trying to get him to say, all right, well, I'll stay sober long enough, like 90 days at least or something to get over here and see if I even believe anything he's saying. I know he doesn't believe me, but when you've seen it hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times, the people I see now that are doing great, I promise you there was a time while I was seeing them that I didn't think they were gonna make it. Almost. I'm like, yeah, this. This was. This one's done for. This one's out. You know, not like out like they're gonna die. Although sometimes I have thought that, but just, like, they're not going to turn it around. And then to get to watch that same person who was just literally, like, losing their spouse, you Know their job's in jeopardy, their finances are in a wreck. Everything's a disaster. Coming in, telling me and being excited about all these things that are happening in their life. It's. It's what keeps me in the game. It's like witnessing a miracle. It's like watching someone come back to life. That's what it is. And I've seen it a zillion times. And this is where you're going to get to. Okay. Occasionally, for some people who have, like, underlying mental health problems, this process takes a little bit longer because they have to deal with some other things. But 75 to 85% of it gets better just when you stop using the substances. Because even if you do have depression, anxiety, trauma, history, I promise you, your active addiction is making all of that inflamed a thousand times worse. So just stopping the substance use, it may not fix it, but it's going to make it a lot better. And then you're stable enough to address it, and you can come that rest of the distance. All right, let's see who's watching with us live. Remember, if you want to join, put a number over in the chat, and it's okay if nobody wants to join. I don't blame you. It's talking in front of everybody with your business. It takes a minute to get used to doing that. I get it. But let's see what you guys have to say. And if you don't want to come on here and talk about, that's okay. If you're in recovery or you've done these phases a time or two, let me. Let me know what your process was like. If I'm wrong, you tell me I'm wrong. That's okay. Tell me what it was like for you. Hey, Anthony, I see you there. Alan is here from Switzerland. That's so cool. All right. Alan says I'm five months and one week sober, and I'm struggling a bit, but your videos help me a lot. Hey, thanks, Alan. What's the hardest part for you right now at 5 months? Is it cravings? Is it life realms? Tell us at five months, what's the good part and what's the hard part? Let's see. Anthony, you got a number up there? Okay, good. And I don't have at least one number. Saxon says thank you for your videos. Your best resource doing my husband husband's heroin addiction and darkest days. He's been sober for two years now. That's so awesome. You see that? That's like a testimony right there. Like sober for two years from heroin addiction. It's possible. And when you hear all those people out there telling you, like, no one beats this thing and no one beats heroin addiction, I'm telling you, it's bull. I see people beat it every single day. So don't, don't even listen to that, because you're gonna believe it if you listen to it. And you're not even going to try to get better or you're not even going to try to get your loved one better. Just going to think it's impossible. I'm telling you, it's not. If you're alive, you're still in the game, as far as I see it. Hey, Debbie. Debbie says, I'm wondering where the emotional issues that were attached to using start come to surface and how to handle them as they are the strongest push towards using. That's a really good question. What I think you're saying, Debbie, is like, if you had like an underlying mental health condition or some other big major life problem, you're saying, when do those surface? Those things actually surface a lot more when you're using. Because the using is like turning up the volume on them. And so it's like constantly battling it. And actually, so stopping using will actually turn the volume down on it. It doesn't make it go all the way away. And at first, not using is going to feel like the blaring speakers in your head, but that's when you're in that withdrawal process. But once you get past that, it gets a little bit more manageable because your brain chemicals stabilize out and you have a better ability to sort of sort through that. So I would say it surfaces more in active addiction than it surfaces in the recovery process. How do I know this? So people are active addiction. They're talking to me about every bad thing that ever happened to them. They tell it to me every single week. They relive it. They get more upset about it. And once they get sober, most of the people, it's a non issue. Like, even people that were maybe having a lot of chronic pain who are addicted to pain pills and they get sober long enough, they're not even talking to me about that. That goes away. So it feels like if I get sober, all that's going to bubble up. And that's what family members like to say. And it does it first because you withdraw and you mess, but then it gets better. Mommy breakdown says, hey, I'm two weeks alcohol free. I loved your channel, dude. You're two weeks. You're over the hump. Mommy breakdown. You. You've done the harder part now, right? Like it's not coasting from here. But never give up when you pass the two weeks because now you've done the hard part and you definitely don't want to do it again. It's no fun. Hey, Marianne from Romania. Three months clean us over. Thank you for your videos. What's. What was the hardest part for you, Marion from Romania? Was it the first couple of weeks or did it happen a little later for you? And. And how difficult is it at the 90 days three months over mark? Is it. Is it easier? Is it noticeably like less cravings or less temptation? What's it like? Anthony says I'm going on two years sober and it's been a blessing in my life. Never thought it would be possible. And not only sober, but I'm building relationship with someone really great. Hey, Juju, you didn't make it live. I think we're gonna. We're gonna take one more comment and then we're gonna do. I know Anthony put a number in there. We'll see if anybody else did. We're gonna let someone come on live with us. Shelly says it's hard to accept when someone is trying to escape their life that such a wreck. So this speaking to that person who is ready to try. Would it help to show a person who's trying off and on with not drinking? If you think they're open to it. Like, if they're maybe like in the trying to not drink phase, then I would show them this. If they're like in the screw it, I don't care, like I'm gonna drink, I don't care what you say face. I wouldn't show them this because they're not ready to hear. Doesn't matter what I say. It's not gonna sink in.

But.

But if they're thinking about getting sober or they're in the early phase, then they might. It might would help to hear this. To hear. Okay. Yeah, it's hard now, but there is some light at the end of the tunnel. All right, let's see if we have any more numbers. Hey, Natalie. Yeah, Anthony, put number 25. Anthony, I think you are the only number. So that means it's you. All right, I'm going to put the link up here and all you have to do is click it. You will need a decent Internet connection, enough light for us to see you. And occasionally there's like a feedback issue and you might need some headphones. Usually not though. But if you have a pair of headphones, like, even the kind of come with your phone or something. Totally fine. But most time it's a non issue, so. All right, here comes your link. All right, we're going to give Anthony a second to get where he wants to be and click the link. Does that say Glamisaurus Rex? I like that. I like your profile name. My partner is still in the bargaining stage. I'll quit this, but not. I'll quit this, but not the other thing. I know it's frustrating to watch because I know, you know that's not going to work, but it is actually a sign that we're moving in the right direction. It means they're on the road to figuring it out and that we all got to go through that phase. So there is definitely hope in a situation like that. All right, I think we have Anthony. We're put him up here with us. Hello? Can you hear me? Hello?

Yeah, I. I had to get out of YouTube, actually, to come into here. How are you doing?

Good. This is the first time I've ever seen your face. I feel like I know you, but I've never seen you.

Been here two years with you already.

I know. I feel like I've kind of watched your journey almost like I feel like I do with my clients. And I know you struggled hard two years ago because. Because I could tell by the comments you would leave.

Yeah.

You'd be like, I can't do this. I don't know if I'm gonna make it. You would say that kind of thing. So you're the perfect person to tell us about the stages, because I know you. You've done done them all. So tell us what it's like.

Oh, my God. Well, when I was doing, I was really addicted to speedball, and I was using crack and heroin intravenously a lot. And when I. I overdosed and went to jail the same day, and I went to jail for something pretty serious. And when I got there and I started sobering up and I started, like, really reflecting, I was like, I need to write a lesson of everything I need to accomplish in the next five years to. So I don't know what happened back there, but I just can't do it again. I don't want to go back to that life again.

And so that was your moment of clarity, as I call it. Like, this was, like, seeing it clear for what it is. Okay.

So I wrote a list, and I wanted to really be engaged with na aa. I chaired meetings at the end, and getting my education was very Important to me because it was a hurdle I never thought I could get over. And when I started getting over that hurdle, I was like, oh, what the heck? I was so scared of this, and I couldn't complete it. But that was easy. I don't know why I was so pretty.

Consultant, just, like, figuring out you're capable of more than you thought.

Yep.

Can I ask you this, Anthony? Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just curious. When you first started going to 12 step meetings, what did you think? Like, did you take to it right away, like, some people, or were you, like, this stupid is not for me. Like, what did you. What did you think about the. That process?

I was like, oh, my God, they really want me to talk. And I was scared for a little while, and I didn't talk for about a few months. But I just. I'm a religious person, too, so I was going to. I'm Roman Catholic, so I didn't have a problem with the God part of it or nothing like that. So it was pretty. It was easier for me to adapt to NAA than it is for a few other types of people.

Okay, so you kind of came on board with the program pretty easy, but it made you sort of social anxiety, riled up a little bit because just like now, you had this kind of different peer pressure coming at you.

Yeah, and I was always a loner, and I was always afraid to ask for help, or I was taught if I needed help, that I was weak in some way. So I lived with a lot of childhood trauma and abuse, and I came from a family that was very troubled. And it was. My mom had a lot to deal with when we were growing up. She had three troubled kids. So I. The trauma carried over into my adult years.

I find that trauma gets worse in your adult years than we worry about children. Not that you shouldn't worry, but. But you almost see the effects more in the adult years. I think a lot of times.

Yeah, it was tough for me because there was a lack of accountability that happened in my childhood. That didn't teach me much of. About being accountable and being the best person I could. I don't ever believe I was a really bad person. Like, I never woke up in the morning and felt the need to hurt people or do something that was bad. But when I started doing heroin, drugs like that, my lack of empathy went down. I couldn't empathize with people. All I could feel was all that hurt that I had survived through in my life. And that mixed with drugs, it wasn't A recipe for success.

I think you're saying something super important there. So I have a couple questions, if it's okay. You. One thing you're saying that I want to ask about, because you're. You're talking about the trauma. And we had a question earlier. I think it was from Debbie. I'm not sure. But the question was, like, what do you do when the trauma starts to resurface when you're sober? And I think it does resurface worse initially. But tell us, when was the worst part for you and how. And what would you suggest, or what did you do and what would you say to Debbie about that?

When I got out two and a half years ago, I definitely didn't think I was going to make it. I didn't really think I had a chance. And dealing with that trauma, I really had to do a lot of grounding techniques to get myself out of that initial feeling. Like, how many green things can I point out in this room? Or really sitting back and doing some breathing techniques.

Right. It's like focusing or almost like a distraction to pull yourself out of here.

Yeah. And then I had to say, is this real? Is this really a part of my life now? And then I had to sit and really talk to somebody else about it because my ability to rational. Make rational thoughts was very rocky because of just my mental state. I mean, I was just not in the game yet, and I had to sit down and just run things by people all the time, just saying, does this sound right?

That takes a lot of willingness and humility to do that. And it's a recovery skill that. It's almost like sounding board. Yeah.

And it took me a while because it just. I think guys are more. When they grow up, they're taught to ignore their feelings or we don't really aren't supposed to explore what sadness is or fear. So when we have these emotions, we chalk it up as anger or. Or something else. And so I had to really look at that too, because I was always misplacing my anger, like, directing it at people rather than the problem. So I just have to sit back, relax, and think. I'm not angry at people. I'm angry at my situation. How can I fix it if I can't fix it? Maybe I just gotta calm down and just walk away for a minute, come back and their head.

Mm. It took a lot of conscious effort, especially at first. You have to stop and think about, like, it took a lot of active energy just to sort of, like, get through the day, make decisions you know, navigate life stuff.

Yeah, it was it was a challenge at first. And when I started getting it, I started building more confidence. I also do advocacy work. I've changed a few of the parole laws here with the Less is More New York campaign. And I do criminal justice reforms and work trying to build treatment courts around people's needs.

I love it. What are the laws you had changed?

Well, the Less. Well, the Less is More act was a parole bill that really helped people get off a parole smoothly and allowed them to earn incentives for behavior. And it also took like.