Why Accountability Is The Key To Healing Addiction 🔐🗝️

Watch many of my videos at all. You know that I am hardcore big, big fan of creating accountability in early recovery. I think it does two really important things. One is it helps you when you're in early recovery to make good choices, even on those hard days. Even on those days when, like, your willpower gets low. To me, accountability is like that safety net that you can put underneath you to make sure that you don't fall through the cracks on hard days, because you're going to have them. And the second thing accountability does, which is hugely helpful, is it helps to restore the trust faster. It helps all the relationships and. And that helps the person in early recovery, because when your family gets up off your back, everything is easier because them being all hovering over you is not helpful. We all know that. But families have a hard time backing up because they're scared. So you've probably heard me talk about soberling before if you watch this channel for very long, because I'm like, a huge soberling fan. Like, really, like, it's kind of, like, embarrassing because I'm such soberly man. But people always ask me, they're like, well, Amber, is there anything like that for drugs? And I always been like, well, not really. Like, they have these, like, recovery monitoring programs. It's like you click, you, like, sign in, you see if you have to take a test. It's this whole process. And I would, like, say, you know, you can look for this. Well, guess what? Like, a few months ago, I found out that there's a new thing that's like, soberlink for drugs. And I'm so excited about it. Like, I'm like, finally. And then wait until you hear how this works. It's going to blow your mind. Because I had that same reaction when I heard about this program as I had just overlink. I'm like, why didn't I think of that? I could have invented that. I was, like, so jealous. Like, but when I think about this new program that does it for drugs, which is called Clearly, I'm like, dude, I would have never even thought of that. Like, it's, like, really cool. But before I even tell you how that works, I actually asked the creator of this program called clearly to come and talk to you guys. Her name is Liz. And the reason why I want Liz to talk to you guys is because she's got a story to share that I think you're going to be able to relate to. So welcome to our little community. Liz, we are so glad you're here.

Thank you for having me. I'M very excited to be here. Thank you, Amber and everyone. Yes, I was connected with Amber, and turns out we have similar missions and passions. And so I was super excited when she understood what we were up to and our goals and allowed me to share them with all of you. And so there is definitely a story behind, clearly, and. And it is the story of my family. And so I'm just going to dive right in, if that's okay, Amber, and just kind of tell everybody what we went through.

All right. Yeah, I think that's super helpful because I think that's. Honestly, I think that's why this program is such a more effective program, is because you know where the pitfalls are, because you in it and you understand, like, the dynamics of it. That's the important part. It's the family dynamics. It's the interpersonal pieces.

So.

So talk to us about sort of your experience and how this whole thing came about.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy story. It's a long story. So the way that it started for us was I had a loved one who, amazing person, was very sick with a very serious drug disorder, a drug addiction. And so we were coming out of treatment. It was a really scary time. And he was in residential treatment and then stepping down and sober living. And he was about to be coming home. And there were many of us that were nervous about that, including him. And so we were all trying to figure out, looking around and thinking, okay, what are we going to do with him? And he was looking around thinking, what am I going to do with all of you? And so we knew we had to do some level of monitoring. We did not want to do it. So. But wait, wait, wait.

Why not?

Well, because it's confrontational, and you have to have a whole discussion about it. And then I didn't want him to be mad at me. My codependency was kicking.

So you didn't want to ask him to do it? It.

I was nervous about that because I already felt like everything was a kind of a time bomb. Like there was. It was a pressure cooker. But it was scary, like. But the bottom line was I needed to know. We had a lot of other dynamics at play. Children were involved. I needed to know if it was going to be safe with the kids and all of this. But the truth is, I needed to know because I care so much for him. Was he okay? And I didn't want to have to ask because it felt very undermining to be like, are you okay? Are you okay? Like, he wasn't allowed to be in a bad mood. You know, if he was in a bad mood, like, he's reusing and he couldn't even just be a person, you know, because everything, it was under a microscope. And so I was like, we need to do this monitoring, and we need to do it in, like, a balanced way. Like, I don't want to have to discuss it. I just want the information. I want to swim in my lane. You swim in your lane. And let's just have this exchange of information somehow. And so I was looking for something that would do that for us. And one of the other ladies that had a loved one in the same. So we're living. She said, well, it's too bad that you can't use Silver Link, because it's awesome. And I was. Yeah, I was oddly. I was jealous. I was like, that was great. I'm dealing with, you know, illicit substances that are not alcohol. And so anyway, I was looking around, I was searching the app store, I was calling around and of. For us, like, the thing was, we were doing at home testing, and that was just awful.

It.

It was, like, not cool for him, not cool for me. I didn't really know how to read the test. I mean, it was gross. It was confrontational. I was like, this isn't going to work. We cannot rebuild with this because it's just too awkward. And it just. Even if he's doing everything right, I feel like I'm undermining him.

And.

And if he's really struggling, then there's a bigger issue at hand.

And then what happens with the home test? Just so the people watching. Because I'm not opposed to home test.

Yeah.

But now that there's a better solution, I'm like, I'll do this. That's the same way. I used to be like that with the Breathalyzer before I knew about sibling. I'd say, well, you can do it at home. But the problem with it is, is it puts the loved one in the parole officer sort of like, role. Exactly. And you want to ask them to take the. The drug test. And when I tell people to drug test people, it's preventative. So it's like, I want you to do it regularly. I don't want you to wait until something happens. But it feels like an accusation every time. It's just, like, uncomfortable. Yeah.

Yeah. I. I honestly should have been asking for that. Well before things got where they were, but I was too cowardly. And I say that because I'm a strong, confident person, but I just Couldn't do it. And if I had been able to have accountability in place earlier or perhaps some level of detection to know what was going on, I was somewhat blindsided initially because I just didn't know the science to look for. Yes, I think a preventative method is just unbelievably powerful. And then, of course, coming out of treatment as an accountability safety net. We were looking for a safety net. And so. So I also was considering lab testing for many different reasons. But the whole thing was, you know, it certainly has its place. But having to leave work wasn't really an option. We were trying to rebuild families and trust and relationships and friendships, and work was a critical thing. And I was kind of thinking, like, would I want to do that? What would I want to do if it were being asked of me? And so, like going to lab tests. So I went. I went to like the nicest place in town and the cheapest place in town because I was like, what? If I'm gonna have this conversation, I need to know what the options are.

Wait, I just want to stop right there because I think I really love that. I really love that. Just for so many reasons. And I don't think I've ever had a loved one do it. And honestly, again, if I would have thought of that, I would have told them, but I didn't. I wish I did. But, like, it. It really helps you to have an understanding about what they are going through. Yeah, right. And I don't know, I just think that was so smart to really, like, experience it for yourself. And that's what I tell, like, families when they're like, telling their loved one to go to treatment. Go to treatment. I'm like, okay, stop. Like, I know that you think they should go, and they probably should, but there's a reason why they resistant to doing it, you know, like, understand their point of view. Okay, sorry. I just had to point that out.

Because I think that's really, really key. Right. In walking these journeys together is really being able to. And have an interest in understanding the other person's perspective. And so. And I wanted him to have success. And. Yeah, and I respected him, even though, you know, things hadn't gone according to plan. And so I thought, well, I'm gonna go do all these tests and see what they're like. And what I found out really quickly was if the lab test urinalysis was observed and done correctly, it was really awkward and uncomfortable. Not something I would ever really want to do. Super expensive. But moreover, it felt like it wasn't dignified. It felt very inhumane and it was just humiliating. And so I was like, oh, that's not gonna work. And then also I realized that like half the time I didn't even do it right and I could cheat it if I wanted to. So I mean, why am I even paying for this? And then I gotta drive here and sit and wait and then like it just didn't seem like the thing that would work for us. And it's expensive and all the things.

I got questions. Yeah, can I have questions? Okay, so, so I want to hear like what, what, what was it like? Like what is the process? How long does it take? How long does it take to get the results back? How much does it cost? Like give us the details, like we want to know.

Well, in my experience it could cost anywhere from 30, $35. There's usually an additional fee for the observation if they do it. And then, or it can be up to 85, $125 a test, depending on the panels that you're test, nicer places. And listen, we have labs that we love to work with that are fantastic and they are a little expensive, but they, they are clean and they are neat and they're professional. However, there's still drive time involved. Like I was thinking, am I going to be able to leave work, drive 10, 15 minutes, maybe 30, depending on which one I was going to sit there and wait. And even at the very fastest places, there's nothing you can do about drive time. So I was just like, this is not super effective. Effective for something that we need to do regularly. Like we could do this every now and then and there's certainly a need for that. And with the lab partners that we work with, I love that. But like I needed something that would be a little bit more frequent. And also if I was going to get buy in from him to do this, it needed to be something that wasn't a total pain for him, that wasn't totally going to disrupt his day.

Right.

And also when someone, I am not in recovery myself, but being exposed to the process has changed my life in countless ways. We could do a whole nother talk on that. But I also learned that in early recovery, it's its own full time job. So I wanted something that wouldn't be disruptive for him when he was back to work, but also wanted something that wasn't disruptive to the really serious he was working, getting well and doing to get well. So that was kind of my testing experience. It just, I was like, it's gotta be a better way. How in this day and age, do we not have an app for that? You know, I mean, like, how many times did we hear that saying, there's an app for that? I was like, where's the app for that? Right? And then, you know, it was Covid, and it was. My life was falling apart, and everything was going sideways. And so I had this unique opportunity where my day job became very dormant. That was hard. But it gave me the opportunity to obsessively research what our options were.

And I call it the csi. This goes in with your family member. You turn into, like. I'm like, they should hire all these, like, spouses and moms at the FBI, because you get skills.

Like, we'll get it done.

I always laugh and say, like, I know y' all walking around with, like, a black light in your purse, so you put your skills to some good use. I love it.

Yeah, for sure. Nothing will drive you harder than trying to meet a need for your family.

Oh, yeah.

That's just the bottom line. And I needed something for him, something for our children, something for me, and also for his mom. There were a lot of different relational dynamics at play. And so I had this idea to build this app that would do randomized testing. And I knew the randomization was pretty important because that's where true accountability can lie in, you know, un. Predictable accountability. And I needed it to do that. And I needed it to be so random. I needed it to be remote, that he could take anywhere at work or at a sober living facility or whatever, wherever the environment was. And I needed it to be rapid, because what we were trying to solve for was the ability to know instantly where we were. And so I was seeing.

Right. Because I want to point out, because I've done drug testing for 20 years, and even when I do it in a treatment program, like, when I've run intensive outpatient groups, so I. Somebody pees in the cup or whatever, and then I have to send it to the lab. And then it can take. Yeah, minimum a week. Sometimes three weeks to come back. I'm like, dude, if my person is relapsed and I don't find it out till three weeks later, like, it's not helpful. Three weeks later. Like, it's.

It's scary.

You gotta get. Like, if it's happening, you need to know quick because that's. It's harder and harder to shut the gate on it the longer it goes.

You're 100% right. And like, our thing was, especially with the prevalence of fentanyl everywhere. I was like, you know, there's no time to wait. And also, wouldn't it be nice if we could just rebuild faster and you were able to see the progress and like, wouldn't that be super cool? And then, but here's, here's the most interesting thing. So, well, we built this app and what it does is and we ship you everything that you need and then it allows you to take one of our saliva. May I show you what it looks like?

Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, show us.

Just because sometimes it's hard, people are like, what is it? How does it work? So you get, you get our kits, but they look like, they look like this. And so when we tell you to take a test, we text you and we give you a window of time. I kind of did this similarly to what I saw in drug court, which we knew a little bit about. So we give you a window of time to take your test in and then. Well, it's usually eight hours. It can be four or six to turn. It depends on the program, but usually so that if you're at work, you can do it there or you have time to get home. And it happens. We randomize seven days a week, anytime from 6am to 8pm you get that, that test alert and then you can take it in that eight hour window. It's super convenient. The thing was to make it super convenient, but yet private, dignified and effective. Right?

Because a lot of boxes to check.

I know, I know. I mean, you know how it is. You're like, we're going to boil the ocean with this thing. We're going to do it all. And so, so yeah, so what you do is you, you use our app and our app tells you how to take the test, guides it, records it, and we guide you through the entire thing. There's no way anyone else is going to take your test for you. We use facial recognition and then we have a human review component. And that was really important because if we are going to rebuild trust, we have to be extremely trustworthy. So that was kind of the goal. So someone goes, can I tell this for hours?

I'll tell this part. Yeah, I tried this, you guys. Like, I was like, let me see how that works when I heard about it. So, so I got a kit, they sent it to me or whatever, I download the app, I open the app and Liz was nice because you had someone on your team actually like sort of sit there with me and walk me through it or whatever. And you open this app up and it, it's like, it has like this like circle frame or whatever that it needs to see your face in or whatever. And you have to keep like everything in the like view of the camera, right? Otherwise. Because let me tell you, like I'm sitting there, I'm like waiting for my results and I think I'm super add. So I just have a hard time like sitting for two minutes. So I'm like. And it's like, lord by right. I forget what it says, but it's basically like get in the frame. That's right. You know, like, I'm like, if you a micro millimeter it got you like, I'm like, oh, this thing knows it's watching me for real. It really does.

And that's, that's the goal is to guide someone to success, you know, and then so the first test, you figure it out and we guide you through it. It's so easy. We do the collection, we do the processing all on camera. We take pictures and those are part of the report that we send out. It takes 18 minutes, soup to nuts. You can do it anywhere. It's private, it's dignified, it's easy. I mean, so our entire team tests through our systems. We live our customers experience. And as you know, I'll be watching Real Housewives taking my test. You know, it's like very easy. Sometimes I'm working on my computer and when we started, we beta tested everyone from my 12 year old daughter to my 7 year old mother and we were like, you know, let's make sure this thing is super easy to use. We've done probably 1500 to more than that test in our app since we started. And we use tests that are widely used in employer and forensic markets that are 99% accurate. So it's been a lot of fun to create something and then actually launch it and see it do the thing that we dreamed it could do, which is like provide the accountability for someone who's off at college, for someone who's, you know, got a really busy work day and can't get anywhere to test and step aside. We see people that will, you know, they're driving, they're on a trip and they'll get a ping to test and they prefer to just go ahead and get it over with. They'll just pull over at a rest stop, knock it out. I mean like, it's empowering, it's innovative, it makes you feel good. Here's the thing, kind of we feel like we go beyond detection because we take out all the excuses of why you won't take our test. That there's only really one reason.

Well, there's only one reason why someone.

Will skip a test.

That's right.

You fail by decline. That's the whole point is if you opt not to do it, you know, there's only. It's very telling. You can also fail by misstep, which means you tried to cheat it, which is always interesting when that happens. And then you can also fail by detection, which means One of these 14 panels rendered a result. So we have a pretty extensive panel, but I think I would say the most rewarding thing about putting this together is that we see folks having a different experience with accountability. It's been amazing. And also we see families having a different experience with accountability. Accountability, as you preach very well, is crucial in this whole process.

Right. The. The thing that, from like a. From like a clinical perspective, there's just a. There's a few things I like about it. Obviously, I like that someone's not watching up. I don't even know if we said this yet, but it's a mouth screen. Like, I don't. I think we might. It goes in your mouth. It, like, collects your spit. So, you know, like, like, you know, that's not. That's not embarrassing, like, going to pee. Right?

No, tt.

Right. And you get the. You get the results instantly. But the, The. A big piece of this is that it's automated. Those old infomercials, I can't remember what it was. It's like, set it and forget it, like. Or whatever. Like, it's like the crackpot. Right? It's just automated. Like.

And thank you for pointing that out because we do. We. You don't have to ask anyone to take a test. We do that for you. We facilitate the test. And basically what we say is you get their results at your fingertips. Because when that test is complete, we send it up into a cloud, Our highly trained team reviews their test session with human eyes, and then we send you a report within 60 minutes of that test being completed.

No matter. That's right.

Pretty impressive.

Right? And so it just. Like I said, it just works efficiently. Like, it makes. I mean, I've always been a big proponent of accountability, and even with the old systems, I would have said, do it anyway because it's that important, but now it's like this makes it just way more, like, livable in your real life.

Yes.

And. And it, like I said, it helps the person in early recovery, but it also just helps the family. And so how, like, who, who gets the results? How does that get set up? Because you're saying some. They get the results like within like 60 seconds of the test. Uploading, like, who gets your results? Like, how does that work? Yes.

So it's super easy. So on my phone I have, I have the app because I'm, I'm regularly testing and I have a loved one who also has the app as my supporter and my test. He gets my results within 60 minutes of me completing my test. And anyone else that I add into my app, if I remove someone, they get a notification that I've taken them out of receiving.

That's like. So you really gotta think through. I've been doing this like 20 years. I even wrote like a how to do home drug screening, like PE test at home. God. And like, literally there's like pages and pages. If they say this and do this, when they say this, you gotta think, you guys know on this channel, I'm like five steps ahead.

It's so true.

You gotta like think of every little thing.

So one of the things that we did in order to do just that is that we went to a sober living here, where I live, and went to the executive director and we said, and my loved one was very helpful with this. He has just been fantastic. And we recruited about 10 folks to come and test with us in the summer that we were piloting. And these were, these guys were just awesome. And they were like, we've cheated every single drug test there's ever been.

Real drug addicts.

You recruited the real deal, brilliant people and they are creative minded and they were up for any assignment. And we said, all right, what we want you to do is help us figure out where you would cheat our process. You know, I mean, help us understand do we have any holes in the process? And, and so we went through that entire summer and we have, we have built something that we feel like is absolutely foolproof. You unwrap your test on camera, you show your mouth empty on camera, and again, you do this all so quickly and then the whole thing is recorded. So. And then again, that test result that you get, you have images of the person holding their test. So it's pretty awesome. We've had our results accepted in court before. We're about entering into that, seeing how we can help folks rebuild in that area. But yeah, it's been. When we sat down and we said, how would you cheat it? You know, we had people come up with some pretty nifty ideas. So we just kind of worked that into our process to make sure those weren't options.

Yeah. You just sort of, like, found all the holes and then covered the bases. Right. And. And, you know, you said it held up in court. I'm telling you guys, I've done. I've done so many peace screens, it doesn't bother me at all when someone hands me some pee. Like, I'm like, I'm gonna tell the truth. Like, I don't even put the glove on. I'm just like. Because I've just done it for so long.

Yeah.

I'll be like, oh, you need some hydration. You know, because I've looked at so much big. But what I want to say about it is, is that these tests. And I've done it. I've done both lots of times. Are probably more accurate.

Yeah.

Than the P test. Because there's, like. With P test, there's, like, a million ways to cheat the system. Don't make me tell you what they are like Wizinator. Like, certain drinks, you can buy all kind of things. Okay.

Yeah.

But there's not with these tests.

You're exactly right, Amber. So the. It was really exciting for us. The department of transportation actually just added saliva as one of their methodologies. And they'll start using it. Actually using it probably the next 12 months. But they added it because there are no known adulterants. When properly collected, there is no known way to cheat it. Now, saliva is a little bit different. The detection window is more narrow, so you can detect use sooner. And that's really helpful with certain substances. And then also, you know, within that window of time, it's been recent use. Now, urines can be very helpful for historical use, and that's a great place for a urine. And so they both have their place. But a rapid saliva gives you immediate understanding. And again, that's what we're going for.

Sometimes people will. And I've. You know, I've had people ask me about, like, the hair testing and stuff in the past. So if you're thinking about that for your loved one, I do. I do want you to know this. Number one, it's a chunk of hair. It's not like they pull a hair out your head. So, you know, if you're me and you have massive amount of hair, and it's like, it doesn't that matter? Because, like, I can do underneath. But if you're, like, a dude who has, like, a short haircut, you got a little bald spot. There's that. That's not even really why but, but I have found I'm not laboratory or whatever they are. I've never had anything show up on a, on a hair test on my clients who are telling me they're using drugs. Like I'm like, I know they are using drugs. It has to be in such a high concentrate. I think that I, I've never seen anything show up and it, and that takes forever to come back. So if you're thinking about that like I don't even, I never would, I never messed with those like I tried it a few times but it just wasn't.

It's very expensive for sure too. Yeah. So we, we tried to, we worked really hard to get our pricing to be very close to what you per test, what you would pay if you went to get a high caliber top of the line. Well, it's not even that expensive but high caliber drugstore test. And we do feel like we're not an at home test, we're an anywhere test. And that's really important for people to know when they are traveling for work or for play. You can still be accountable wherever you go. And we built our system to be super user friendly. So this little test, I usually carry one in my purse because again I'm testing through the system. Not that I wouldn't have time to go get it if you know, within that window I needed to do so. But it is meant to be like on the fly. Here you go. Super easy. Works with your lifestyle and monitoring and accountability long term has been proven be highly effective in outcomes for folks staying sobriety. So I wanted a way for the, so you see physician health programs and programs designed for pilots and nurses, they have this long term monitoring component. And I was like, well we want that for our families and how do we do that? Even in aftercare from treatment, but also as you pointed out in prevention and deterring and early detection. If someone needs to go to treatment, how do we get them there faster? That could have been a huge game changer for my family had we understood what was going on sooner.

Right, right, right, right. Yeah. I think when I look at, when I look at this, what you've done with the. Clearly you really have sort of covered the bases to make it efficient, effective, more comfortable. But also you know, the tamper proof, like yeah, not efficiency but like validity. I could think of the word validity. Yeah, like the validity of it. And it's just fast and speedy. So I don't know of a better, a better option right now. And that's why I get, I know I get kind of nerdy and excited about these things, but, like, it works. Like, let me give you example. I was talking to a wife. This was a wife I was talking to, like, a week ago. And she's like, one of our Invisible Intervention members. And she, like, made this consult. She's like, okay, I'm there. I'm there, Amber. Like, I don't know what to do now. Like, he says he's ready, like. And she's like, what do I do? What I do? You know? She's like. She's like, what do I ask him to do? Because he says, like, he's ready. He sounds genuine. I think he means it. And. And my husband said to me, like, okay, I'll do whatever, you know, whatever you think I need to do. So then finally, she's been working, like, you know, months to get him there. And then she's like a deer and headlights. She, you know, so she's like. Gets on the phone with me or whatever, and we're talking through it, and she's like, well, should I ask him to go to meetings? Should I tell him he has to go to treatment? Should I make him talk to a counselor? Like, what should I do? And I said, well, let me tell you what, if. He'll only. If he. If you only have one thing to ask your loved one to do, you ask them to do monitoring.

Like, if.

If they, you know, if. If you got one thing, and it's like, I. If there's. That's the one. And you're like. Like, instead of going to meetings, I'm like, yeah, if they're only gonna do one thing. This is the thing. Like, this is the most important of the things I personally think. Can I ask?

Yeah. Why do you tell them? Yeah, why do you think it's the most effective?

Because it's the only thing that, like, really works and is accountable. I mean, you can. You can make people go to meetings. You can't force recovery. Like, sometimes you can force compliance, but you can't force recovery. I mean, I spent 20 years, all day, every day, listening to people who have substance use problems. And they tell me, like, I got some wife, I'm going to aa. I stopped, got my alcohol. I sit in the AA parking lot, drink my drink, drove myself home, and my wife says, how's the meeting? Great. You know, like a million times. I'm not against me, I'm for it. I'm just saying, like, this. This is the thing I think that helps more than anything else. And. And, like, I Said I've. I've used accountability, I've used overlink. I've used all these things for a long time. But for the person who's dealing with it, that knowing that I can't just get by with it, because there's these. I call them monster mouths. There. There's these. It's always these sneaky thoughts. And this is when you're in early recovery. You're trying to get ahead of your own sneaky thoughts. And. And there's a couple of really big ones that are almost always there in almost any addiction for everybody I see. And that one of them is called coast is clear. Like, you know, like, my spouse's gone for the day, she took my kid to camp or whatever. I've got several hours. I can do just a little bit, be fine by the time she gets home. She won't even know, right? I call that coast is clear Monster. That's probably one of the strongest, like, figures and cravings for people. And then there's this other one that's called Just a Little Bit. That's the name of that monster mouth is this voice in your head, right? Just two. Just a little bit. Just one line or just this one time, whatever. And what happens is, if you get ahead of those little sneaky addiction thoughts, like those little monster mouths, this is ahead of them, right? It sort of takes those things off the table. And actually, that's where I think it makes it easier to stay sober. Like I said, for me, testing is not about catching people. I do not want to catch anybody on a drug test. I hate it when someone fails their test. Fails are so blank. Because I'm like. I feel, like, terrible for them because I'm like, now I'm about to say something, they're gonna feel awkward. I feel bad. Like, I don't want that to happen. I'm not trying to get you. I'm trying to prevent you by getting ahead of these monster mouths. For me, that's what it's about. And if you try to just pull this off on your own at home, as a parent, a spouse, sibling, whatever, you'll probably do okay for the first few weeks. But it's so uncomfortable. You're going to stop doing it consistently because it's not comfortable to have to ask them to do it. It's just kind of weird. And then you start slacking off, right? And then you slack off, and then you don't, you know, everything's fine. And then they come home late one night or they smell funny or whatever. And then you're like, I need you to take a drug test. And now it's an accusation.

Right.

That's when it has to start up front. You're not trying to trick them. I'm not trying to, like, wait and catch you looking sketchy and catch you. That is not effective for addiction recovery. That's just effective for, I don't know, probation maybe, I don't know. But that doesn't help people being caught. Right. So for me, it's about the prevention. And the only way to do that is consistently beforehand so that you're ahead of the monster mouse so that you don't have that sneaky thought. Well, I can do it just a little bit, or I can get away with it because it takes off table. And then when you don't have to have that thought, less stressful to stay sober. You don't have to argue with your monster mouse a thousand times a day. It makes it easier. It really does.

I love that.

And I love the way you said.

About not being the police person in your household. And that was one of the things I was like. I don't want that. Any relationship, whether it's spousal, co parenting, children, any. At this, we're not meant to have to play that role. And if something can do that for you, but still give you the information, then everybody's winning. So I love that. That was one of the things I was like, how do we keep people from being in that situation? And when you can, you know, have software that'll tell someone to take a test and you don't have to be the one, it's fantastic. And the randomization is key too, because it doesn't.

And for the person, it doesn't feel like an accusation. Right. And that's what I think. That's what I think is like when it's. Even as a counselor, I don't like to do it as an addiction counselor. I don't like to have to ask somebody take a screen, you know, because I, you know, it just makes it weird. And so this automates it. And that. That's the part. It's the automation. Yes. Convenience and the validity. Like, all of that together. I'm super jealous. I did not come up with this. I'm like a techy addiction counselor. Why did I think of this? Dang. Almost done.

Again, we're excited. The. The feedback that we get from the folks that we work with is that it's a game changer. Game changer. That was fantastic. To get feedback to get to get the feedback from the folks that are actually the ones taking the test about how it kept them honest, how it kept them on the right track. I mean, it is so rewarding. I mean, that's exactly what we set out to do. And so to see these folks like, and here's the thing, you said it. There's no bad result for us if someone is doing great or we're tracking that progress is awesome. If they aren't, if there is a fail by decline, a fail by misstep, a failed by detection, that is an indication that there's just more work to do. And you need to know that so everyone can work correctly and that person can, you know, have that again, that safety net. So I love that. I think that that's kind of key to the long term play in all this.

Do you have, Liz, do you have a few minutes? Like, if we took a couple of questions or. Sure. Can they ask you questions about, like your own personal story or just about, like the clearly thing?

Anything they like, you're open. We're all in this together.

All right. She says, let's throw it at her. So. All right, we're gonna say hello to those of you who are watching live. And if you're watching on the replay, go ahead and post your questions in the comments or tell us what you think about it. If you're in recovery, tell us how you think you cheated, if you think you could cheat it or whatever, you know, and. And I. If there's a question that comes up I can't answer, I' I'll reach out to Liz and say, liz, can you go back to that video and answer that question for that person? So even on the replay, feel free to. To put it in there because this is new. It's different. I had a lot of questions. I wanted to try it because I was a little bit like. But it does. It works. All right, so let's. Let's say hello to everyone. Let's see who's here. Can you see those chats on the side there, Liz?

Yeah, I can. I should. Okay.

I didn't know if you could see them too. Hey, Christine. Hey, Isaac and Nancy. Brenda's here.

This is so cool.

Yeah, These are our people and I'm so glad they're here. Liz. When I first started doing this, I was like, there was no one on my lives. And I was talking to myself and uncomfortable. Worse than asking someone to do a drug test. Well, that's you guys that are here. Yeah. This is awesome. Yeah. All right, let's let's take some questions, some comments, some concerns. All right, let's see what Christine has to say. Christine says, I found out last night that my husband relapsed again on pills. How do I deal with the relentless bullying and harassment for money? He will literally keep me awake or stand outside my office when I working. There's a little bit more. You're so awesome, btw. You're the one getting me through this.

I appreciate you so much for this, Amber.

I know what you're talking about. It is like, bullying. It's like a little kid pestering, right? Like, where they just. It's a manipulation tactic, basically. It's just. I'm just gonna wear you down, you know, like where I just ask you a million times and a million times. And I think, honestly, when you're in a situation like that, you sometimes even have to just remove yourself physically. And that's crazy to say, but sometimes you just. You have to do that. It reminds me of when I used to be a teacher, which was really hard, you guys. And then I. And then I worked in, like, the rehab center. One of the things I learned when I worked one of my first jobs was I was, like, a teacher in the rehab center because I was an addiction. I was a counselor, but I'd also been a teacher. So they wanted me to do, like, the teaching of these students, the ones that were, like, in treatment and couldn't go to school. They were like home school, but in rehab.

Yeah.

One of the things I learned was, like, if you're in there and somebody acts up, max crazy, which can happen in the mental hospital, people, and you ask them to leave and they won't, then what you do is you have everyone else stand up and leave. Right? And so that's what this reminds me of. And sometimes, because you're saying, you know, like. Like imagine you have a classroom, Somebody's acting out, throwing a fit or whatever, and you're like, you know, you need to leave. You need to whatever, go the hall, go the principal, go the counselor, whatever. But they won't. You can sit there and keep arguing with this person, but sometimes you have to physically get up and remove yourself. And I know that that's hard, especially if you have kids and you're married. But. But you. But you have. No matter what, if you give in to that behavior, it's just like any other bad behavior. You're like, reinforcing a bad behavior. So try not to argue about it. You don't have to explain why you don't have to say, but I gave it to you last time. And I know what you're going to do. Don't just sort of like, don't engage and say, I'm not talking about this anymore. You know, try that a few times and then remove yourself if that's what you have to do.

Yeah, good advice for sure.

It's hard because I know when they're in that state. Now, another thing, I'll say Christine was like, let's say they had the money and they're like, trying to leave and you know, they're gonna go drink use or whatever it is. I also say never stand in the door physically and try to block someone. Like, you can say to someone, like, I don't think that's a good idea. I wish you wouldn't, but don't. I mean, I've seen parents do this with kids, like, you're not leaving, you know, like, and stand in front of the door or, like, try to wrestle theirself on other hands. I'm like, do not do that. Because when you're dealing with someone who's in that, like, determined state, you're not going to deter them. And then you're going to be dealing with some kind of, like, domestic information, so. Right, Nice. Yeah, it's hard, but some. You. You can't physically make someone not do something.

Oh, I see a good question. Do you want me.

You want to tell me which one do you see? Can you click it? If I click them, it pops them up on the screen.

Let's see. It won't let me do it. Won't let me do it.

Okay, what's the name on it? And I'll put it up there for you.

Tyne Williams.

All right, let me scroll down and.

See which is a really cool name. A 1218, if that's helpful.

Okay. Oh, I must have passed it going back. Oh, that's 118 my time. I'm slow, people. All right, here we go. Here we go. Getting there. Got it. All right, how do you know they're not altering the sample without eyes on them?

I love this question.

Good one.

All right, the way it works is all you need is your smartphone and one of our test packets. And then we'll tell you when to test, we'll send you a text and email, and we'll remind you and bug you until you complete it. It you go into the app, you're going to click through a couple of best practice reminders, and then you're going to basically, I don't know, if you guys can see here, I'm going to try to show you. You set your phone up wherever. We give you a phone stand. That's really nice. We walk you through the entire process and we record you. It's super cool.

The camera's on in the app.

The camera's on in the app.

It's watching you. So it has like AI in it that can detect if you're in sketchy, right?

Yes, that's right. We guide you, we talk to you, we tell you the steps one by one. We guide you through the whole process. While we're recording you in your selfie cam, you can see yourself taking your test. The facial recognition confirms that you are who you're supposed to be, which is part of your account setup. And so we guide you through the entire thing. If at any point in time your test components leave the frame of the selfie cam, then you fail by misstep because you've lost the, what they call chain of custody of your test. We have to be able to verify that this and this were always part of the process and never were they. Like for instance, we saw this guy. He did. He tried so hard to be so slick. Let me show you guys. He. He took one of his tests and he pretended to knock it over and pick it up really fast. But we had a couple of certain things we know to look for and we caught the fact that he replaced it with a process test. Yeah, we had this, this like really squirrely, really smart college kid. And he tried to. I'll show you one second. He took a test and he was trying to. Because we take images of your results, he was trying to show a different test.

Oh, like he put an old one in front of a new one.

Yeah, we've seen it all. We've seen people.

Thanks for trying, man.

We're here to play.

We get it.

We're like, we're down for that. Like, that's what is. And so, yeah, so if you do anything to disrupt the process, that's to fail by misstep. And trust me, we give you a how to video. We have built this thing to be so easy, a 12 year old can do it. So any type of disruption or foul play is very easy to catch. And you know, you have other tests in your packet that we send you. So if you ever needed to retest, it would be possible through our system. But we make it so that you should have a very easy flow of things and really feel very comfortable the entire time. Another difference with our system versus like if you've ever done an at home COVID test is like I would drop it and say spill it and like try to fold out, you know, the instructions and read it and what am I doing here? This is not like that. This is like someone's telling you and guiding you. You don't really have a lot of questions if you know you're just following along. It's just kind of intuitive. I hope it helps.

It does. Because you have to like open the test in front of the camera.

Yeah.

Once you start, you, you, your face and little hands, that little test cannot go off of the camera. Like if you're seeing me right now, if this happened out.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, but it's not that hard. Like it, it, you, if you did that, you knew what you were doing.

A hundred percent, you would, you.

It wouldn't really be accidental like you, you're trying.

Yeah, no, that's very true. I mean again, to your point, like we, we were trying to make this super easy so someone would be willing to do it. You can't make it complicated. You know, it has to be like very smooth and easygoing. And again, you can see yourself in the selfie cam. So it's not like you're not sure of what's happening. And this is also easy to use. So usually, I mean everyone does it seamlessly and those that are trying to get around something, unfortunately we have to report that as a failed by misstep.

So what happened? Okay, so like let's say someone fails by misstep then. I mean like, then what?

Well, at that point in time, and you're more than one to make the recommendation than we are, our job is supply the information. This person, there was foul play and we put that in the report. We'll put in the report what the situation was specifically and then allow you to make the decision of what happens next. When you're monitoring, you usually have some level of expectation what happens is when and if. And that's part of a good monitoring plan is for everyone to know what the incentives or deterrents are. And what I mean by that is what are the consequences. Understanding that up front is really important, you know, to being compliant and taking your test. If someone is failing by misstep, my recommendation would be at that point in time they could wait for the next test to be pinged and remind them of their consequences or what they've experienced. You do. And then of course, if needed, you can always use that lab test. If and when you think there's Need a need for confirmation. We will have that as part of our app offering probably in the next three to five months. I would think you'll be able to put in a zip code and find the nearest lab. But our job is to give you, like, that immediate transparency into how doing. So, you know, when we tell you, oh, Johnny took his test and he tried to switch out his test, you know, you know right away. The only reason why he's doing that.

Yeah, there's only one reason. Yeah. I just want to see if this app worked.

They do is they, you know, they may drop their test or they may like. Like, have something. Try to see if they can have something happen with their phone. I heard this one story of someone who I had someone else, like, flick off their WI Fi. Our tests work with WI Fi or cell service. But people, you know, they do try to get creative. So I think that having a really great understanding of what the, you know, agreement is revolving, the monitoring is really important. So everyone kind of knows what happens next. And it's not something a discussion you have to have after the fact.

Right. And what I would say, if you're the family member watching this and you're trying to wonder, well, like. Like, what should the consequences be? This might be where I can help make this easy for you. When I do this with whether, you know, sober link or urine test or whatever testing I've used in the past, the fact that they know that, you know, that is the thing. Yeah, I know you don't believe me, but, like, because sometimes people say, well, what happens if I fail my test? And then I'll say, like, a hologram of me appears and it says, I see you. I know what you're doing. You know, and then we left. Or whatever. What. What happens on my end is I. I usually, for real, like, not really a hologram, but I wish there was. Maybe Liz, you could probably get out for that, build that into the app. Like a hologram. Figures of, like, a loved one or the counselor. I text them, really, and I say, hey, what's up? You missed your test. Or, you know, is everything all right? And then they'll usually be like, hey, I drank last night, or whatever. And then I'll say, okay. Like, is it all gone? Do you have any left? Can we get back on track today? You know, like, you don't have to have a big punishment most of the time. The accountability isn't probation, okay? It's not. It's not. You wrote parole, and now you're going to jail. Although I mean, occasionally it could be that, but honestly, it's just about having everything above board. That everything above board is the thing. Right? You don't have to say you kicked out. I mean, some people have that in their plan or whatever, but. But I usually encourage people not to have those. Like. Like, no wiggle room. There's, like, a rule. There's, like a word for it, but, like, these rules where it's, like, black and white. It is or it isn't. And there's. I'm like, I wouldn't even set those for people. I would. What I say, family members. I'd say, listen, I'm not gonna let that chaos come up in here and mess with my kids. Up, up. Or, you know, if this goes on. And I'm telling you, there is an endpoint to this, and I'm done. But you don't have to say, one failed test and, you know, I'm out or whatever. It's the above board that actually makes it work.

That's such great advice.

Not the punishments.

Yeah, I totally agree. We were trying to figure out a way to give folks the ability to do more of carrot than a stick. What are the things that you want back? Or what are the things that you're trying to keep, or what are the things that are important to you? You know, and that's different for everyone. But I. I mean, 100. The carrot is always better than stick. And. Yeah, I think that's awesome advice, Amber. I wish I had found you, like.

Three or four years ago. Well, I wish I found this clearly. Yeah, this is going to work good together. Nancy's got a question. Does not work on, like, regular drug testing. It's like a special thing. You have to either buy a special test for, ask for it. Is that detected on this test?

We do have that on our panel. And the reason why that's important is because. Well, there are a couple. Fentanyl did affect my family. I. I understand how scary it is. And it's very interesting with fentanyl because oftentimes people are using it and they're not intending to. Right. With the poisoning of fentanyl now and everything, it's pretty scary.

It is.

Our panel, we. We do see it work, you know. Yeah, it is. It's a hard thing because sometimes people will pop for it and they're just as surprised as anyone else because it was in the cocaine or it was in. You know, it's just the way it is these days. So, yes, we do have it on our test.

I just Want to add to that, too. Like, if. If the person is, like, let's say they're addicted to, like, Xanax or cocaine or something like that, and they show up positive for Fentanyl, there is a. There's a strong chance that they did not know that. But if your person is addicted to opioids, I know y'. All. I know y' all don't believe me on this, but people seek that out like they know what they're getting. Like, they know it's not always tricked, I guess, is what I'm saying. So very true. Like, so, like I said, if that's really not their thing, but their thing is the other thing. And you see it, it probably is. Like somebody put something in somebody, something. But if it's opioid, like, there's a real good chance that they knew what they were getting. Like, they purposefully sought it out. That's a really good point.

It's pretty scary.

Yeah, too.

Like, the days of, like, innocent experimentation and recreational drug use. Those days, in my opinion, are over. There is of a gamble and very scary. Raising children in that environment, too.

Is it? Anna wants to know if it's available in Canada.

We have tested people in Canada. Yes. So let us know if we can help you in Canada.

If they have Internet and you can send a package to someone, it works there.

As long as we can ship you your kit and you have WI fi or cell service, you should be good to go, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Hey, Irma, thank you for your. Your sweet comment and support. Let's see here. What is the cost? Oh, here's the cost question.

Yeah. Okay. So as I mentioned, we tried to structure our costs around, like, what would you be paying if you went to the drugstore and bought an equal test, and then we wrapped it in software and ship you everything you need so you don't have to drive to the drugstore. So we have three different programs, and they're different price points. And Amber, you know what we need to do? We need to do a little coupon code for your folks.

Okay.

Maybe we'll do shovel or something like that.

Okay. Yeah, that'd be great. You'll give me. I can put it in, like, the video description.

That would be awesome. So, yeah, so it's around 250. 250amonth for five test ship to your doorstep. To be honest, for us, that includes shipping. That's our. Our largest cost is to get those to you. Because when you order them from us, we do ship them out today, shipping, you usually get them two to three days because typically when someone orders our kits from, clearly they're ready to go.

And so, yeah, if your person's coming out of treatment, you need to have these at home before they get there. Don't be waiting.

And we can totally help with that. Our customer service is amazing. You can call us, we're happy to talk you through the process, let you know exactly what to expect. Our website is clearly.com also very helpful. So you order your kit and our programs are based on the frequency of testing that you need per month.

Right? Like it's like per month. Okay.

So we have our accountability program, which is five tests a month for 250, and that is five random tests with everything you need shipped to your doorstep. The software they're reporting and that testing experience, that test record can be shared with as many folks as you want to have on the platform receiving those results. So that's pretty cool. And then again, like, it's the processing, the software, the facial recognition and the test kits themselves. We also have in the panel, I will say, and this is on our website, it's available 14 panel test that covers all of the usual suspects, including fentanyl, xanax, cocaine, methamphetamine, amphetamine. It is all listed there. So we have a pretty impressive panel, if you will. I will say if someone is struggling with THC use, they need a higher frequency of testing because saliva does not say. I mean, excuse me, THC doesn't stay in the saliva as well as long. So if someone is. That is their main drug of concern, I would recommend a higher frequency of testing.

Wait, let me say this.

Yeah, that's actually.

I didn't know that. I didn't know that part. But as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, that's actually a good thing because part of the problem with marijuana is because it stays in the urine so long.

Yes, exactly.

They say. They say that's old. Like, that was month ago. Now I'm so. So that's actually good because if it shows up on a saliva test, it means it's been recent.

It's real recent.

I didn't even know that. That's like a. That's actually helpful, I think.

Yeah, that's an awesome point. That's the whole thing is immediate use, recent use. And so the accountability plus program that we have is nine tests a month. It's $430 for nine tests. So you can think of it like this. Two tests a week with a floater throughout the month our job was to figure out how to design and it's truly random, but how to design something that would never be predictable. Not just in like which day which we test again, seven days a week, 365 we test, you know, no worry about a holiday, no worry about, I mean you might even have to take a test on your birthday. So I mean it's just totally random. And then of course we randomize the time of day. So that's super important to that accountability piece. So that's 430, $430 for the accountability plus 250 for the accountability program. And then for someone who is either could be very early detection or who is doing great but needs that continued safety net. We have the maintenance program which is awesome. It's a three month program for $350 but it's seven tests over three months. So it's truly random spot testing. Right. So it's for that person who they've been doing great, they're doing their work. Maybe they've been on one of our higher frequency programs for 60, 90, 120 days and they're just wanting to step down to something that last tier of, of accountability and we see it. I would, when we came up with that program, I was very curious to see if it would be. Utilize is actually very popular for stepping down. So great option. And again our, our goal is to send you everything that you need. You're not driving to get anything. It's all really available to you at your doorstep and at the touch of your fingertips for you.

And, and I think it's good that you have the tiers because usually that's what you want to do. You usually want to start if someone's brand newly sober. You want to start with like, like the higher tier and you want to sort of like taper like go down to less and less and less. I don't usually like to say, you know, like with soberlink, I'm not, I don't want to go from testing you three times a day to nothing. I want to like gradually like figure that out something. It's smart. And that kind of relates to this question which is about serverlink, but this actually applies to both. It's like my husband started soberlink. How many months should you do this for maximum effectiveness? He's not doing meetings separate or anything else. Okay, so I have an answer for that. But, but Liz may have a different answer for that. So I'm going to let Liz say and then I, I'LL weigh in, too.

Okay, great. So that. That is a great question. I think it really is. Obviously, person to person, what's best the outcomes show. The longer you monitor, the longer you're more likely to have that sustained sobriety. So what does that look like? So I've heard from the research that we've done, this is going to sound crazy.

Really.

Two years is phenomenal. Twelve months is really ideal. And Amber, you're the professional here, but when we talk to folks that are coming out of treatment, we work with treatment centers, we work with case managers, we work with professional monitoring companies. If they can get someone to do 12 months, they really feel great about that. Now, if someone's only agreeable. And Amber, you talk a lot about this. What is someone willing to agree to? And how do we kind of meet in the middle? I think it's more important to have buy in than trying to say, hey, are you going to do this for 12 months? That sounds like a super long time to that person. So I'm teething up for you, Amber. So there. But that's what we would prefer from our end, where we see the best results.

I mean, I agree the longer the better, but that can sound very scary to someone. If someone's coming out of treatment, like they've been in, like, a residential or an inpatient treatment, they might be more apt to be like, all right, yeah, whatever. Because honestly, that's what it comes about. Disagree to anything. This is the truth. This is the truth, people. So, like, if that's the situation, great. But if, if this, maybe your loved one is trying to get sober, you're trying to get sober without having to go away a year sounds like a really long time. Yeah. So what I like to ask from people, as I say, listen, you're not, you know, I'm not putting you in some kind of contract to do this, but I am going to recommend that you do it at least three months. New habits, new routines. And then, you know, then we can, like, look at it again. So. So I like to ask for a commitment when I. When I ask people to do monitoring, I say, I, I think you should do at least 90 days. Most of my people do it way longer. But it's not because, like, I make them do it. It's because it's the choice that they make or whatever. So you know your loved one best, you know, sort of what place they're in. If they're in a, like, really solid place and they're like, yes, I'm doing this, I Don't care what I do, whatever. Ask for your long time. They're not. And they're like. And then I ask for at least three months. And then what you can do is after the three months and you can like, probably like go down to like a lower, lesser number. So that it, you know, that kind of thing and sort of weaned down that way. That would be my thoughts.

I totally agree that the first 90 days outside of treatment are just super critical. I mean, that is where if you're going to see reuse and we, we see a lot of treatment programs that we work with or monitoring partners that we work with, that's kind of their go to. And again, to your point, it's very interesting who will choose to do that longer because they see the benefits of it rebuilding, putting pieces back together, progress tracking. And I've talked to folks who were monitored who chose to do it longer, and they said, you know, it was so nice for me to know, even though I was doing great, that I had that accountability there in the distance, you know, just kind of keeping me on track. So.

And for people that are serious, once they do it for a while, what happens is, is they, there'll be a time or two that they, that they're gonna. They will tell you, I would have relapsed if that wouldn't have been in place.

Yeah.

And for those people, they, they know that like, most days are really solid and most days it's not issue and they don't even need it. But, but probably in the course of three months, they're gonna. You're gonna run into a place like, you know what if, if I, I probably would have used like, they. And they, and they'll like, acknowledge that and admit it. And then other people continue to do it longer because they're like, you know what? This makes my life easier because now my family's not up my butt, I can like go off to college, I can go to the freaking Target and not come back to a million questions. And so I much rather do this a few times a month than to deal with that like. And because it really, like gets you freedom. So that's why people usually do choose to do it longer. One of those two reasons. Yeah, let's see. We have some questions here. Ellis says my husband's been disappearing, maybe at night, coming home after work for days and then showing up pretending nothing's weird. I've been using your techniques to show him love. Anyways, it's helping. He's. Oh, there's More. He's even noticed that they aren't going crazy. Arguing cycle thinking. For your help. I hope you want. Turn it around.

Yeah.

That is good. Right? It feels very unnatural. Right, Right. But it does work. Beck says, my loved one is an inpatient, 40 days sober now from alcohol. She's been very positive until recently. Called begging to come home. We refuse to come get her. How can we best support her? She's been there 40 days, it sounds like. And I don't know how long the program is, but sometimes when they. Usually the begging to come home happens right up front. I think it's. I think it's bizarre that it's happened at 40 days. So I don't know. I mean, if I were talking to you, like, in a council station, I would probably have a million questions about that because I'm having a mean questions, but, like, what you want to do because they're in treatment and they're just calling. You just want to kind of, like, sidestep the issue until it goes away, if possible. Like, honestly, like, I understand why you want to. I try not to say things like, listen, you know, why you're there. You did all, you know, try not to go into, like, that mode, because that's not helpful. Try to be kind and supportive, but do.

Yeah.

And when they come home, sign up for some kind of monitoring program. And I'm. I'm not saying that because Liz here, those of you that watch this video, you know, I would be saying that anyways, because I always say that. Yeah. Cindy says, wish I'd known about this six months ago. I might have to use it in the future. What a great service. It really is. Thank you, Cindy.

I hope you don't need us in the future, but I appreciate that you understand what we're doing.

Yeah. Let's see. Jeffrey says my partner is 70 days, so we're recently relapsed. What advice could I give him to encourage the progress he's made? I have some thoughts, but I. What. I want to get your thoughts, too, Liz. What do you think?

So that's such a hard thing. Gosh, it's so emotional. Right. Because for a thousand different reasons. So I would say to encourage the progress he's made. I think leading with kindness, again, you make the point, like, never throw things back in their face or to use harsh words. I think that knowing that you. So one of the things for me is accountability is important. And how do you, like, balance that with an unconditional love or caring.

Right.

Finding that spot where there are boundaries. And there are this. I would say if what you could do to encourage him with the progress he's made is maybe highlight some of the things that were going so well in the time that he was on track and talking about the things that maybe he's hoping to achieve or you're hoping to achieve together or independently, that could be based around him staying well. Amber, you're more of the professional than I am. I have lived experience with this. I'm better at detecting the problem.

The csi. You got the badge. Put your badge on. I agree with everything Liz said. The only thing that I would add is when it comes to relapse, like with my clients, I go into damage control mode. And so what I do, because what happens to the person is they think especially, you know, somebody had 70 days. I mean, that's a long time. And they're doing really good. And they think I've ruined it. I'm all the way back to square one. I've already screwed it up now, might as well keep going. They start thinking like they've heard in treatment. And other people say, like, you can't stop. Like, I, I try to put a shutdown to all that. And I say, listen to me, me, if you had 70 days, okay, and you used yesterday, then I'm not gonna give you yesterday, you don't get 71. But if you're sober today, I'm giving you 71. Because that other thinking, that's monster mouth thinking. That's addict thinking. You, you can't undo your 70 days. Now, if they had 70 days and then they've been out using for a month, probably it's not that their days go away, but it's really hard to stop at that point. But if it's a. I call it a lapse. If it's a lapse, the damage control mode is where I go. Because that addiction is going to try to tell them they've screwed it up, they can't contain it. And what I try to do, if at all possible, is to contain that. Say, listen, it's a slip, it's a mess up. We process it. What do we learn? What happened? Are there things we can do? Can we do clearly anything, whatever, but damage control it so that they don't beating themselves up about it isn't helpful. And as a family member, support person, your job is to keep doing everything I teach you. You do not lose your mind. You don't relapse with them. Yes, the worst thing you can do is go back into all the Old stuff and the yelling screaming in the spine. Don't do it. If you don't get on the roller coaster with them, they will very likely get off of it much quicker. If you. If they go back to old behavior and you go back to old behavior, we're going to be on the roller coaster it for a while. Don't do it. I have videos on the channel about that too. Like that. Go more into detail. But it's a good question. Let's see here.

Oh, Anna Anderson, that's a good question.

Oh, that's a good one. Okay, I was just looking at that one.

Yeah.

Do you suggest these accountability trackers? How do you suggest it in a way that they would accept. Okay, you go first.

And Barbara, you're the best at this because I know. I know what your answer is because you've already coached me on this thumb. I would say that for me, that was one of the hardest things. Like, how do I bring this up? They're gonna get so pissed at me and like, how are we gonna do this? But I gotta do it. And so I would lead with, in my experience, like, what are the things that we're trying to achieve so in a positive light. And so always for me, it was like, how do I, like, find the carrot in all of this and not the stick? I mean, the stick exists, but let's focus on the carrot. So it was a matter of in my situation, what is it that you want? And other things that you've lost. What can I. What can we help regain? And focusing on that and the actual, like, verbiage of how do you bring it up? For me, I was always like, I don't really want to do this, but I feel like it could be really helpful if we start doing some testing. And there may be nothing that comes up, which would be great. But it really helped me to understand where we are without having to ask you and having to have a conversation about it. I would love just to have information without a confrontation sort of thing. Is that. And that's how we suggest folks share clearly, is. That's the whole thing, right? Is balancing ability. I want to be able to swim in my lane. You swim in your lane. And let's just have this information. And that's what we didn't have before. Before and before. Anyway, Amber, I could keep on going, but that's kind of the first thing that comes to my mind. But I know you've got some really good advice on this.

Right. And I agree with what Liz is saying, which is like saying, hey, this is gonna help me stay off your case. It's gonna be good for both of us. And you know it. Like, she says it real sweet. Y' all know I'm, like, sarcastic and sassy when I say it. But that's. That's what she's saying. She's just saying at night because she's nicer than me. But y' all know I have to be all strategic here. What. There's several things. Number one, you do not bring it up until it's the right time. Okay? Until someone has decided that they are. I. I was going to say want to stop. Whatever gonna stop. I don't care if they. Because a lot of people stop. Not because they want to, because they need to, whatever that they are stopping. I don't care the reason. So don't bring this up until they are to that point. If you want to know how to get them to that point. Tons of videos on this channel about it. Invisible intervention, whatever. But the. The point here is, is, like, I see his families all the time. Like, somebody's in active addiction. They're like, you need to go to treatment. Like, dude, you skipping a bunch of steps here. So wait until the moment is right, and then what? This is where my snakey min. And I say, I really want you to do 90 days of treatment or whatever. And if they do, I'm like, you know, like, great. But if they don't, then what you want to do is you want to say, well, would you do this? Like, if you think about, like, negotiating for a car or something, if you start high and then you have this down here, then if. If they turn this down and then you have, like, just, this is an option. This is going to seem really appealing when stacked up against some other things. If you come out the gate and say, well, I want you to take drug tests all the time or whatever, you got to set it up right. You got to wait for the right moment, and you got to set it up right. And then what? Like, what Liz is saying is saying when I ask people to do monitoring, clients that I have, I don't force monitoring on anyone. But when I set it up and I suggest it, I set it up for those two reasons that I told you before. I think it's going to make being sober easier and say the things that I said, and I think that it's going to make it easier also, because your family is going to be off your back. That's better. And even if a lot of my clients, like, the the results don't have to go to the family member. Yeah. Their sponsor, to their coach. Like, maybe you don't even want to see all that. It doesn't have to go to you. And sometimes that's the better cases not to go. But. But knowing that someone else has got it.

We've seen. We've seen people send their results strictly to their therapists. It is case by case. What works best in your dynamic? A hundred percent. So.

And. And I will say this too. Like, like a lot of times, sober link results don't go to the family. They go to me. And. And here's what I say about that, as I say, listen, if. If there's a problem and someone's a few minutes late or there's an issue, I'm not going to freak out because I'm getting results all day. You're gonna freak out, right? Like, you're gonna be like, why have you taken that test yet? You know, and if it's gonna put you on hyper alert and make you worse, that's when you don't want it to come to you. Yes. Right. Here's the question. This is a game changer. It definitely is. Thank you, Liz. Thank you. Have a regular time that you. You do your life weekly, monthly. Oh, Marilyn, if you're in our, like, our. Our Advanced Recovery membership, we do that monthly live video. It's usually Campbell and me and Kim. We do, like, panel answer all your questions. It's the last Wednesday of every month, so I think that that's the one you're talking about. Other than that, I do these lives every week on YouTube, like the regular public lives, and they're at 1 on Thursdays. Let's see. We have any more questions? Do you see. Look through there, Liz, and see if there's any other question you think because we're about to run out of time.

Oh, hey, Janine. I see the correction. I like that. I think we covered most of them. Oh, just HSA work for payment. I. I think we have had folks be able to do that call us. We're happy to talk to you about it, but our understanding is the answer is yes. Okay.

Okay.

Lots of great comments, Amber. I've got to read through these, and if we don't get to any of them, I'm happy to. There's for you to share later. Oh, gosh. Okay. Yeah, you've got a few more in here. Sorry. This is very helpful to read.

It's hard going back with all the comments. I was telling Liz before we started that that's especially for me and my A to D. I go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But we will definitely have a coupon code for your special folks, Amber and I'll give that to you later. To share a resource, you can check us out@clearly.com. it's L, double E. It's a magic word. That's what all the kids are doing these days, like Uber and Google. We're clearly. And I love being able to share this. Thank you so much.

Thanks for coming on. I truly am, like, super excited about what you're doing. Thanks. As soon as I heard and understood what was happening, I was like, this, this is good. This is.

We're so excited. Accountability in drug detection. That's what our mission is.

All right, thanks, everybody. I will see you next time Thursday at 1. And I've put links in the description in case you want to ask Liz more questions, in case you want to check it out or whatever. Appreciate you hanging out with us. We'll see you soon. Bye, everybody.