Episode 032 Improving Your Relationship

No need to whine, it's whiny palooza! Have some wine and join us on the whiny palooza podcast with Rebecca Green.

Welcome to the whiny palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

This is Rebecca Green for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am over the moon excited to have Shayna James here today. Thank you, Shayna, so much for joining me.

I am so happy to be here, my birthday sister.

I know. Before I tell them how fabulous you are and read your fabulous bio, I want to tell everyone that we've known each other forever, our whole lives. Like, we were born on the same day.

Yes, I think in the same hospital, actually.

Were you born in Children's, at Children's Hospital?

I think so.

I think I should have asked my mother before.

I know, we'll have to ask our moms where we were born. Well, maybe Millard Fillmore. Okay.

So I was at Children's, but it was the same day.

Same day.

Do you know what time you were born?

I think it was around 11 or 12, like 11 AM or noon, something like that.

Okay. So I think I was like 6 AM.

Oh, you're older than me.

So I'm a little bit older. But we both went into helping professions, which is like amazing. Yeah, but you kind of went a different direction, which we're going to talk about. But let me formally introduce you. For 15 years, Shana has coached more than 1,000 leaders, CEOs, authors, speakers, and people with big visions who step into more powerful— if I could talk— powerful leadership, start and grow businesses, create more effective teams, increase their impact get promoted, find love, rekindle spark, create a legacy, and become more personally inspired and fulfilled. Shayna has been known for her ability to assess in just a few minutes the cause of dissatisfaction and stuck points in your profession and love life. Then she creates a clear and unique path for you to have true success and incredible love. Referred to as a secret weapon, Shana cuts through distraction and provides direct access to your confidence, power, and clarity. She is also a— she also a translator between women and men, providing effective tools to transform conversations and dynamics that have gone awry into connection and collaboration. With an MA in psychology, DISC certification, coaching training, more than a decade facilitating groups and workshops, starting multiple businesses and helping hundreds of entrepreneurs start their own. Her range of skills is unlike many other coaches. Oh my God, my tongue. That was a lot to say. What a resume, though. Like, oh my gosh. Thank you. Such good skills. You have such good skills. And, you know, it's interesting to me that we were born on the same day. We both went into helping professions. I went towards really helping mothers.

Yes.

And you went towards helping men.

Yes. So, I mean, right, I started out helping women and really thought that my life was going to be about helping women. When I was in grad school, I was like, oh, I did a, you know, a thesis on life practice for women, and then I shifted into working with men as well. And then like I created a whole workshop business for women and love and relationship. But something about working with men just called me.

That was my question is how did you go that direction? You just felt called to go that way.

Well, I was given a chance to be a woman facilitator at a workshop for men. And the whole idea was, so I was part of this intentional community in San Francisco in my 20s. And we were all just like diving in there and getting messy with each other and being honest. And then, you know, staying to, navigate the messes that we were making. And the men who were part of that community were so— they just like, they felt so empowered and clear. And they started to, you know, feel so much more self-love that they created a course for men. And then they invited those of us who are women to be on this team to give men honest and loving feedback, because the sense was like, oh, if women had only told us what you guys are telling us, we would have, you know, this a long time ago, we would have had better relationships. We would have felt better about ourselves. And so, you know, I started working with men and turned out to be, you know, thousands, thousands of men at this point, but like they would come to the workshop and bare their souls. And, you know, I had my own stuff back then around men using me or being objectifying or whatever. And I just, I started to work through all of that because I got to see behind the mask and the facade.

So interesting. I love that you went that direction. And I really want to ask you this for women. It's, it's probably mostly women listening. Yeah. What do women— what do you feel like we don't know about men?

Hmm, that's such a great question. I mean, I think what, what a lot of women don't know is that no matter what a man is saying, he has that tender, vulnerable part in him. And, you know, we as women, I think if we don't see it, we can sometimes just imagine that it's not there, you know, or it feels vulnerable because we've got so much going on inside of ourselves. And sometimes it can seem like, well, he's got it all together. So that's the thing I think that I got to see over all of these years is no matter what a man's saying on the surface, we're all human. We all have fears. We all have struggles. You know, and so then it's about finding a way to actually have more honesty and more communication to, to allow it to come out.

Yes. Well, and you're making me think of when Seth is like— I use the word abrasive, and I feel like that is like such a trigger for me that I have to remember he is such a sensitive soul. Yeah, but when he's prickly or abrasive, I just It's hard to see it.

Totally, totally. And to remember, like, this is also when I work with men, I help them remember that when women are prickly and abrasive, there's something going on under the surface that they're feeling scared about or sensitive about, and they're protecting themselves. And if we don't take it personally, which is very hard, I know this, you know, I'm not perfect.

It's like the one line that we can teach people right now is don't take it personally.

Don't take it personally.

Yes. Yes, it's the hardest lesson.

It's so hard.

It's like if we can, you know, I'm going to go to my next question because I don't want to answer my next question. Yeah. What would you tell women to do to improve their marriages?

Hmm.

Other than not taking it personally.

Other than not taking it personally, right? I mean, one of the things I would say, and I just had a session with a woman this morning and it was so beautiful because we were talking about what she wanted. And we were talking about how the tendency is to complain, right? The tendency is to say like, oh, why isn't this happening? Or I don't really like it this way. So, you know, I would say that you get way more of what you want when you shift it into, oh, this would make me super happy. Or this is, this is what I really want. And I remember, you know, I'm divorced now and in a 3.5-year relationship. But I remember back in my marriage when one of my coaches said, you know, complaint and desire, right? It's the opposite side of the coin. And you're bringing all your desire, your complaints, Shayna. That's funny, Freddie and Slip. I was actually bringing my complaints. And he was like, you could ask for what you want. And it just didn't feel right. It felt like then I'm giving up and, you know, I have to, I have to let them know. I have to let him know that this thing doesn't feel good. But nobody responds well to being complained at, right? There's so much more creativity and collaboration that happens when we bring our desires.

So true. It's so funny. I saw myself in Lily. She was like— Seth and I were laughing hysterically. She goes, you're just supposed to know what I want. Oh my God, did she hear me say that?

Oh God, even if they don't hear us say it, they feel it, right?

And then, I mean, I think that that has been so huge for me to learn, that he can't read my mind. And I was listening to your podcast and laughing so hard I've totally forgot her name, so I apologize. But she was talking about how someone didn't take out the recycling or the garbage, one of the two. And she was like stomping around the house all pissed off. I was like, oh my God, we all do stuff.

We all do that.

I'm just saying, can you please take out the garbage? Yeah, right.

And recognizing, right, like it's never about the garbage. I'm actually writing a book and I was like, it's never about the garbage. It's never about the laundry. It's never about the bills, right? It's always that sense of like, I don't feel supported. I don't, I don't feel like we're collaborating. I feel like I'm doing too much. Right. And then we can look at, okay, those are all the complaints. And you know, what do I really want? I was working with a couple recently and I was like, okay, who's, who's responsible for what? And they didn't really have an answer for that. And I was like, all right, if, if it's unclear and you as the woman is tending to just like pick up all the slack and just do it, cause it's hard for you to ask for help or ask for what you need, you're going to be resentful and eventually Eventually you're going to explode. You're not going to want to have sex with your husband. I mean, so we've got to actually like get some clarification and take some of these things off your plate and have some agreements around who's going to do what. And, you know, it's not an easy conversation necessarily to have, but if you don't have it, you're just left like as far as, as long as the eye can see in that dynamic.

It is so true. And you know, the love languages, taught me. Yeah, I didn't realize how much the acts of service show me love. I feel so loved when he does stuff for me. And then we want to be intimate, and then we want to be with our partner because we feel so loved.

Yes. Well, and it's confusing too, right? When one person's love language is acts of service, the other person's love language is touch. And so you're doing acts of service, but the other person, that's not their love language. And then you're like, What, you know, why aren't you feeling loved by me? Right. So I think that's all, that's an awesome thing to do is to know your and your partner's love languages.

Yes. Cause they're usually different.

Yeah.

Yes. Yes. So he made it clear to me, um, my love language is not acts of service. Just so you know, just so you know, all that stuff that you do around the house does like, it doesn't do it for me. Right.

And it's like, I'm sure he feels supported by you, but it's not what opens his heart or, or turns him on in a way.

No, no, not at all. So I have a 14-year-old son, Max, as you know. Yeah. And so what I wanted to ask you is, you know, as we're raising him, how— I mean, what would you say to me to help him become a confident, secure, successful man?

Yeah. Yeah, I love that question. I think as I look at my own child as well, like, I think that making room for their emotions and their frustrations and their upsets is really important right now. That doesn't mean that sometimes my kid is upset and I'm like, totally feel you, and I understand that you're upset, and we're still going to unload the dishwasher, or we're still gonna do the thing, right?

Yes.

And actually allowing them to know you can feel things and you can feel, you know, you can have emotions and you can still get things done. But I think a lot of times with boys and young boys especially, they can shut down or feel like they, you know, they get it from everywhere, not just from us, from their coaches, from their teachers, from society, from movies, that they should just kind of man up already.

And so I don't like that.

No, I hate it. Right. And so helping them understand that it's actually a strength to be vulnerable, it's actually a strength to talk about what's going on with them. It's actually a strength to you know, to learn to communicate instead of just shutting down and isolating themselves. And it's actually a strength to be able to ask for help, you know, all the things that boys tend to not get the okay, I think, traditionally to do.

Well, and you're making me think of all the women who are uncomfortable seeing their husband cry. Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

Because we were taught that men are strong. Yes.

Men don't cry. Right.

Like, we don't look at the fact that they're crying as a strength, like they're expressing themselves.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, men too, when I work with men and they see women cry and they're really uncomfortable and I'm like, no, this is— it's okay. Let her cry. Like, this is how she's, she's releasing, you know, she's like, this is the way to her actually opening and feeling connected to you is letting this through. And you don't have to worry that she's falling apart or something awful is going to happen. And same with women. I think, you know, it's part of what my TED Talk was about. Was like, for my TEDx talk, you know, that, that way of how do we actually start to welcome men's vulnerability? Because otherwise, things happen, you know, it blows up later, right? If men don't feel held and supported and connected, then they go have affairs, or they shut down and they get depressed, or they commit suicide, and all these awful things happen.

Terrible. Yeah. So important. You're, you're helping me because I think that I'm not encouraging enough with Max as I'm listening to you. And I think that we encourage it. I feel so guilty saying this. I encourage it with the girls all the time. Hey, talk to me. What's going on? Tell me. And I, I'm not doing that with Max.

Interesting. Isn't it interesting? Like, right. We don't even, we get, we get trained in some way just by the generations or what we've seen. Yeah, it's, it's really fascinating.

Yes. Yes. You're opening my eyes.

I was just gonna say, I might make too much room. You know, my family is always like, your kid cries a lot. And I'm like, well, it's not the crying that, that worries me. It's more like, okay, being able to self-soothe and all of that. If we don't let them cry or we don't let them have the feelings, they can't self-soothe. But you know, there's always a balance, right?

Yes. Yes, yes. And we want them to get it out. Why do we always want them to stuff it? I don't want them to stuff it.

No, get it out, get it out, get it out. And you know, the thing is, it's uncomfortable. Like, I, I have a child who's very expressive, and I don't know if that's because I've raised him that way or because that's just his nature. I mean, from a young age, there was a lot of expression, but it's not comfortable. You know, it's more comfortable to be like, okay, be quiet and just go in the other room. And so there, there is a way where it's harder, I think, as a parent parent to welcome that. But I have to say, you know, there are times where I'm just like, alright, if you need to let it out, go let it, you know, go take those pillows, go jump on the couch over there, just like, just move it through your body. And then Ari comes back and is like, ah, it's like the calm has restored instead of there's this holding and tension and frustration.

I can't even tell you how many people I have heard talk about, you know, therapists and psychologists, and you have to let— release it.

Yeah.

And then you can come back and get yourself together with the coping and the problem solving and all of that.

Right.

But I'm gonna take us back to relationships because you talk about rekindling the spark.

Mm-hmm.

Can you give a tip for everyone listening on how they can rekindle their spark?

Yes. I mean, you know, we can go back to desires, right? Yes. The Client I was working with this morning said that her husband had asked her for like loving touch throughout the day. And she was like, "Ugh, it just doesn't feel good. Like I already feel like I'm his mommy and I've got millions of things to do and I'm homeschooling my kid." And it just, you know, and I was like, and she was like, "Well, how do I tell him that I don't like that?" And I was like, "Well, what about telling him what you would want? What would make it, you know, what would make it exciting for you?" And for her, she was like, I want him to tell me what to do and I want him to tell me what to wear. And, you know, I want it to be more like he's dominating me. Now, that's not going to work for everybody, right? You might listen to that and be like, no, that's not what I want. But for her, that was what was real.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I really encouraged her to go back and say, okay, and this is like, again, bringing back the spark is collaborative, right? And so instead of being like, oh, I don't really like that, honey, or that doesn't feel good, or I don't want to be your mommy, right? It's like, Okay. Okay. That's desire. How, what would it be like for you if when I was giving you those hugs, it was, you know, in this context, like you told me when, you told me when to show up in your office, you know, maybe you even tell me what to wear, right? So start to bring that kind of collaboration. And, you know, it's funny because most of the time when I work with couples, I'm bringing spark back. It's not in the bedroom. It's all the stuff around sex. But I will say, one of the things I find really fascinating about women and myself as well is like, it's hard to say for me when I don't like something. And most of my women clients also, it's like, if somebody touches you, if your husband touches you in a certain way and you're like, uh, it didn't really work for me. We can often grin and bear it.

Yeah.

And that does not create spark. It does not create turn-on or attraction for us. Like we kill our own sex drive or our own turn-on when we do that. And so That's another thing you can do also, start to say and start to think like, oh, that touch, why didn't I like it? It was a little too watery or kind of light. Okay. I want it harder. Then you can actually ask for what you want. Will you, will you touch me harder?

I think that Mo, I, I'm going to make the assumption that everyone listening is probably not doing that. So even if they can start small.

Yes.

And I mean, I find if I say it nicely, I mean, not— and honestly, not during, like at a later time. If we say something nicely, then I feel like they receive it well. And I think that everyone's— I shouldn't say everyone. A lot of people are afraid to ask for what they want.

I think so too. And men and women both, all genders, right? The one of the things that can help is I learned this years and years, like decades ago, and I think they called it the inspiration sandwich or the desire sandwich or something where it's like you You are maybe the appreciation sandwich. You basically, you appreciate first, like, I love that you're— and then we're sometimes the bedroom is like a very concrete way, but you could do this out of the bedroom too. But just, you know, for the touch example, it could be like, I love that you're touching me. You know, I'm so grateful. And will you, will you do it harder? Right. Or will you scratch instead of use your fingertips or whatever? And then thank you so much. Oh my God, that feels amazing. Or I love that you're doing that. Will you try doing this? But it's all like, the request is sandwiched in the appreciation.

I, I think that's a very delicate balance of how to get what you want. Yeah. Because Seth always says, if you give me praise and you give me love, then I'll do anything for you. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

And, and I've had to tell him it starts in the morning, you know, and men don't—

and I'm—

me up in the morning.

Yes. Well, well, no, I mean, like, men don't realize that the, um, What is the word I'm looking for? Like the courting, the foreplay, like the wanting to be together. Yes. Yes. It happens all day.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. It's like we get warmed up through a text or through a look or through a touch or through a, you know, through help or whatever. Right. It's not just, oh, suddenly we have time to be intimate now. And now I'm supposed to get turned on.

So true. So true. It's cooking. I'm a crock pot. Yes. Yes.

I'm not an Instapot. I'm a crock pot.

I totally have labeled myself a crock pot multiple times. That is fantastic.

You know, the other thing too is like talking about, like you said, talking about something outside of a moment, you know, outside of an argument, outside of a blowup, outside of a sexual situation that can be really helpful too, because in the moment where people's minds are not, you know, online, if they're upset or frustrated or whatever, doesn't tend to go as well. But later, it could be like, hey, I noticed that— I noticed that you were upset about this, and I was upset about this, and I'd love to figure out a way that we could actually both be happier. We could both get more of what we want.

Yes. And my, my biggest lesson recently is that I would leave without saying, you've got to give me like some time to regroup so that I don't say anything I regret. So like, he felt like abandoned, abandoned, because I would be like, peace out, because it would be like overload. Later, yeah, I finally like started communicating that you got to give me some time and some space to regroup, but I'll come back. Yes.

Yeah, right. And men and women, again, it's not a gendered thing necessarily. We want to know, you know, and it takes a lot. I was talking about this in my TED Talk also, like, eventually, you can feel the intensity of emotions and speak to them, right, without just losing it or short-wiring. And so to be able to be like, wow, I just noticed my stomach got super tight, or I just got really upset. I am going to— I did this once with a partner years ago. I was like, I am going to close my eyes for a moment and I'm just going to like breathe until I can trust that I'm not going to say something that's going to break our relationship.

Yes.

I'm going to walk away. I'm going to go take a walk, but I, you know, I'm going to come back in 10 minutes or an hour or whatever. And let's talk about it again.

Yes. I love that. I love it. You, you talk about stuck points and how you help people through like feeling stuck. Yeah. Like what are some stuck points?

Yeah. I mean, stuck points, right? Oftentimes with couples who have kids, it's the passion is fading. Sometimes it's feeling misunderstood or feeling unsupported. A lot of it is like, right? I'm either unsupported or misunderstood. In a way.

Yes.

About another couple who, there was a form that needed to be filled out for their kid to go play sports. And the woman asked the man, will you go take this in? And he said he was gonna take it at a certain time. And like a half hour later, he was upstairs meditating or doing something and saw her car leave the driveway. And she took it herself. And they got in this big fight. And she was like, I didn't want to risk it not getting taken, you know. And so there's, there's that sense of like, okay, how do we actually communicate and collaborate such that we're, we're all— it's vulnerable to let go of control. I think especially as women, we have to let go of some control, otherwise we are— we end up being the mommies to husbands, and we hate that.

That was so good. You just like nailed it. Yeah, no, it's, it's a big— it's trust to, to think that they're gonna actually get something done.

I know. Do you like how then I had to help her, right? I had to help her be like, okay, so what could you do next time if you were feeling nervous or you weren't trusting that this was going to happen? You know, how could you communicate it about, about it in a way? And then with him, I was like, all right, if you make an agreement Right? These are stuck points. If you make an agreement and they get broken, then people start to lose trust. So if you say, I'm going to take it at 3:30, and at 3:45, you look at your watch and you're like, ooh, I haven't done it yet. Um, I'm going to do it at, you know, 4:15. I called, the place is open until 5. You got to communicate that and let your wife know. Right? And so then as the woman in the relationship, if the man's not doing that, we can be like, well, Shayna said you're supposed to let me know, right? Or you could make a request of like, hey, you know what I realize is if you're— if, if something changes and you're not going to do it at that certain time, would you please let me know? Because otherwise I get really anxious, right? We got to be vulnerable about what happens for us instead of, could you just stop doing that, you know, or that drives me crazy.

I know, it's, it's— oh, my mother has always said, it's not what we say, it's how we say it. I feel like we're like, right, like you're like coaching people on how to say things.

Exactly, right. And the how comes from all these beliefs that we have of, are we actually going to get what we need? And are we actually going to be supported? And if we don't believe we are, then we start to do all kinds of interesting things with our language, and then we get pissed off. And, you know, and it's hard because we have proof based on what has happened in our lives Yeah, well, it's not going to go well, you know. And I was saying that to my— the woman I was working with this morning. She's like, but it's not gonna— it's not gonna happen. And I was like, well, if you are firm and solid in that belief that it's not going to happen, it is not ever going to happen. But if you have a little bit of inkling in there for like, maybe this could happen, or if I, you know, if we collaborate, maybe this is possible, then— then there is a possibility.

Oh, it's all what we believe. I swear it's all what we believe and it's all what we see. It's like this, um, there's a word for it that I'm losing, but it's like we find what we're focusing on, right? Like we find whatever we're thinking and focusing on. I'm trying to remember that even with Lily because I'm like, look for what she's doing right. Start looking. And, and because I'll be like, oh my God, she's so hard. And I'm like, okay, you're focusing on that. Start looking for the things she's doing right.

Yep. I've been noticing that too. I've been trying more to acknowledge and appreciate, like, oh my God, you did such a great job today. Or wow, you know, last week you were melting down about some of your classes and this week you did everything by yourself. And like, how amazing, you know, that you stepped into that and helping them feel proud of themselves. But it's so much easier to just be like, oh, Again, that moment.

We could do a whole nother podcast on parenting. Oh my God. So you have coached so many men, so many women. Yeah. What have you learned about yourself in coaching all of these people?

That's such a good question. I mean, the thing that comes up first, I feel like I'm constantly learning, but the thing that I've been working with recently is, well, a couple of things. You know, one is I have a really hard time asking for what I want. And I have a hard time speaking my truth if I think someone's going to get offended or disappointed. And so, you know, in my current relationship, we're at a crossroads where we live an hour apart and for 3 years or 3 and a half years, and we have decided like, okay, well, we're either going to move closer to each other or we're going to, something's probably gonna— I don't know, we're gonna separate. I don't know what's gonna happen. But basically, we've done some research and looked at places and realized, like, there's nowhere that we both feel we would be happy that our kids could go. Like, you know, there's, there's all these puzzle pieces. And finally, the other day, I just had to say, like, I need to call it. I need to say that right now, in this moment, there is nowhere that either of us will be happy. Because I feel like I'm like digging for diamonds in a, you know, a beach of sand. I was like, it might change in a month from now. But, you know, I felt really terrified to say that, to speak my truth, because I didn't want to seem like I'm being pessimistic or I don't believe in us. But at the same time, I'm such like, you know, I was, I was kind of taught to be the good girl. If you don't have anything nice to say, thanks, Dad, you know, don't say anything at all.

Yeah.

And at the same time, it's like, Sometimes we actually just need to say what's really going on. So, you know, I've learned that I can say what's true for me, and I can risk a relationship falling apart. My fear is that I'm going to break everything and relationship is going to fall apart. But, you know, that there's more, there's more there than I realize, usually, right? Like, it's stronger than I think a lot of us think.

Well, and it's, it's so hard to be the one to end something like that. Yeah, I know. You know, I remember I never wanted to be the one to say it. So great.

And but then we just, you know, go on and on and, you know, we can feel the energy drain out of us and the life force drain out of us and the pleasure, right? So it's Oh, what's it like? And we're both kind of in this place of what's it like to actually just say what's real for us and then collaborate or, you know, create something from there? Because if what's real isn't on the table, we're just left in this kind of hazy, foggy, dissatisfied place.

Well, I hope that you two figure it out. If it's, you know, it's so cheesy, if you're meant to be together, Yeah, I kind of feel that too.

It's like at some point, you know, we'll figure something out, or maybe who knows, who knows what's going to happen. But at least saying the truth, I feel like I got my energy back, right? Like, I'm not—

yeah, you're not feeling drained. I totally understand. What do you like best about what you do?

Oh, well, One of the things I love best is that I've said this before, I feel like I get to love men for a living. And yeah, it just feels so amazing to be a supportive, you know, loving, like, I want you to have what you want and your desires are good. So on the side working with men, on the side working with women, I think what I really love is helping women realize like, oh, I can have the whole range of me. You know, I can feel sad in one moment, I can feel turned on and horny the next moment. I can feel pissed off the next moment and I can use all of it. Like all of it can come through in a way that actually creates more joy and more connection and more intimacy.

That is such a good answer. I love your answer. So good. What would you say the best advice is that you've ever gotten?

Oh, the best advice I've ever gotten. To breathe and not, you know, not say something that is going to be destructive, right? Or it's like, you can— maybe another one is you can either be right or you can be connected.

Oh, I always get that from Seth. Do you want to be in love or do you want to be right?

And sometimes, sometimes if I'm pissed off, sometimes you're like, I want to be right now. I want to be right. But there is something in there. And I don't want that to seem like, okay, now we have to give up our truth. But, you know, the other thing I've been working with, positive psychology or positive, positive intelligence, not positive psychology, Shirzad Charming. And it's this really beautiful thing where he says, like, the other person is at least 10% right. You can start to just listen and give space for what is good about what this person is saying. You know, then that sense of I have to be— if I'm right, then that person has to be wrong. It's like, no, we could actually come together and create something beautiful.

Well, and it's interesting because I think about the fact that it's just my perception.

Yes.

You know, like someone else has a different perception of the same— like you and I, even though we were born on the same day, we would still see things differently if it was the same situation.

Yep.

So it's so true. Um, what, what else do you want to share that I didn't think to ask you?

You asked such good questions and so many that I just am like, huh, okay, what else? Is there anything else? Um, think again for women especially, I guess what's coming to me is, you know, if you're feeling deflated or depleted or depressed, like usually it's that there's something more inside of you that wants to happen, that wants to be spoken, that wants to be asked for, you know. And so to just give yourself permission to know what that is, even if you don't know how it's going to happen, even if you're not sure if your husband is going to be the one who like could help you have it, you know, first we just have to actually know what it is that would light us up and make us happy. And then we can figure out the how. But if we don't know, we can kind of just stay. And I'm guilty of this too, I will say, I was doing a class recently where I was like, oh my God, I'm feeling joy and lightness. And I was like, I haven't really felt a lot of that this year, you know, in the pandemic, homeschooling my kid. Like, I've done some great things. I've worked with great people, but like happiness and joy and lightness. And I've had moments of laughter with my kid, but I don't know, there's something different where I was just like, ah, this like sense of buoyancy, you know, and peace that has not been very present this year. So, you know, also I guess in that, like, don't ever make yourself wrong if you're feeling down or if you're feeling stressed or all those things. Like, you're not wrong, you know, there's just something that, that needs to be worked through.

Well, and you're making me think of a particular friend who I'm gonna make listen to this because, you know, she's a mother of 4 kids and She—

I can't even imagine having one. I'm just like, how on earth would anybody be able to sustain any sense of sanity with 4 kids?

I know. I think of her a lot because I have 3 and I, and I feel like it's a big load. And 4 is even— right, 4 is an even bigger load. And she's like, I just need something for me. Yeah, I'm missing— like, she's like, I need some sort of work that's going to fulfill me, like, just a few hours a week. Yeah. And she's, like, searching for it. She doesn't know what's gonna— what it is— her.

But I love that she's searching for it. That's so great.

So hopefully, I hope that in the years to come, she finds something that may give her the happiness that I feel like she needs in her life.

I love that. I mean, whether it's a career or whether it's a sport or whether it's a hobby or whether it's, you know, some kind of service project or whatever, I think that we do need A lot of us, you know, need something like that instead of just putting our attention on the kids.

Well, and I didn't realize it, and then, you know, like I told you, I was meeting with you today and I was like, oh my God, I get to talk to Shayna and it's gonna be so fun. And it like helped me through so many hard parenting moments today where I was like, I just need a break. Like, this is my break.

This is— I know, my work is my break, especially when we're homeschooling our kids.

Oh my gosh. Well, can you tell everyone where to go to find you? Yes.

So I think the best place is to go to shaynajamescoaching.com/tedx. And you can see my TED Talk that is for men and women. It's called What 1,000 Men's Tears Reveal About the Crisis Between Men and Women. And then on that page for women, there's a guide, 3 Simple Miscommunications That Push Men Away and How to Bring Them Back. And so you can scroll down and, and get that.

Well, go find Shayna.

She's amazing.

She's my birthday sister.

I love it. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much for being here. This is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast, reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

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