Episode 533: Discover your Purpose and Passions

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Winey Plousa podcast and I am very excited today because I get to talk to the wonderful Elena Love. Elena, thank you so much for being here with me today.

It's such a pleasure. I've had a wonderful time listening to your podcast. You're doing great stuff.

Oh, thank you so much. I was just telling Elena she has the best name, that best last— well, her first name is beautiful too, but she has the best last name I have ever heard from a guest and I had to read it a few times because I was like, wait, wait, go back. Are you remembering it correctly? But I want to tell you about Elena because she is fabulous. She is the CEO of Purpose Linked Consulting and a respected expert in helping people discover their purpose, understand their passions, and bring their best selves to work and life. She is the author of Permission to Be You: Discover Your Purpose and Passions to Bring Your Best Self to Everything and Everyone. Just that title alone has me wanting to read this. I need to read this book, everybody. And she's the co-author of the bestselling book, The Purpose-Linked Organization. With a background that spans research, science, medicine, and executive leadership in global human resources at Merck and Company, Elena brings both scientific insight and real-world business experience to personal growth and leadership. She has written for Bloomberg Businessweek, The Washington Post, and Harvard Business Review, and she now helps leaders, teams, and individuals create healthier, more productive lives rooted in purpose. And we all want to live in purpose every day. I think we all want that.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

But I have to ask you, like, this book, Permission to Be You, I mean, we all want permission to be ourselves. Tell us what inspired this awesome book.

Oh, you know what, I have a lot of gratitude to give to my clients for this book. I've been working with leaders and teams and organizations around the globe for almost 15 years when this book became evident to me. And the real, the real background behind it was I was helping leaders and individuals understand what their passions and purpose are and helping them to understand how do I sort of move more fully into who I am so that I can show up in the work environment effectively. And what I found is that they were saying to me behind closed doors, can you do this with my wife? Can you do this with my child? Can you do this with my brother-in-law who's struggling? I really think they could use this help. And I thought to myself, I've got to find a way to do this for others. Not everybody is inside a large organization. Not everybody can afford to pay for an executive coach or a consultant to come in and do this work with them. But this knowledge and this capability needs to be available to everyone because understanding your passions and your purpose is a superpower. I mean, it's just so life-affirming. So that started me down the path of writing this book. And I have to admit to you, Rebecca, I was nervous as can be about the thought of writing it. Because here I was known as a leadership author, and I'm making this departure into life in general and saying, okay, these are lessons that I've learned from leadership that are applicable to our lives as a whole. So I started writing the book. I put it down because I knew it wasn't the book I was supposed to write that I'd started. And I went back to it like 5 years later and said, okay, suck it up, girl. You're gonna make this happen. And I did with a lot of support from friends around me. Absolutely.

So your goal is, I would imagine, for people to leave the book finding their purpose and their passions.

I would, I would. My goal is for people to have a traveling companion on this journey to better understand ourselves. I think all of us are in some way, shape, or form struggling with that. And it's pretty scary to say, okay, I've got to figure out what my purpose is. I have to figure out what my passions are, and I'm supposed to do something wonderful in the world. That's a tough order, right? Especially without some support. So this book is meant to be that support system. There are reflection questions as part of it. There are— there's an online toolkit that people can access for free. Perfect. You know, do some, some self-assessments and some self-reflection that'll help them gain a greater clarity around who they are and what they're here to do. And then of course, it's the entire book is focused around pivotal moments that we go through in life and how our passions and our purpose help us navigate those moments effectively.

Oh my gosh, I love it. I love it even more than I thought I was gonna love it. I mean, what do you think people's— what do you think our biggest misunderstanding is about finding our purpose?

That we can run over to Walmart, grab a shopping cart, and go down the health and beauty aisle and find it. And we're— and I think that's probably our biggest misconception, you know, like it's out there somewhere, I just have to look for it and find it. Yeah. And the reality is that it's inside you. It's already there. And so a lot of times it's giving yourself permission to do the examination, to think about it, to not be what other people prescribe you to be, but to really ask yourself, who am I and what motivates me, what excites me, what gives me a sense of thrilled and like it lights my life up. And too often we don't do that. So this, this particular piece of work is meant to be a way in which you can get to some of those answers for yourself. And they're individual. I can't prescribe for every person, here's who you are. Yeah, it's a journey that you have to make for yourself, but I can provide some really good tools to help you examine that. And that's what the book provides for folks. Some really—

we appreciate you designing that for us because I think we all need it. I'll never forget someone telling me that we should spend our days doing something that we would do for free.

Oh, absolutely.

And I loved— right, I loved that line.

Yep. I— when I was writing this book, somebody said to me, you know what, when you find your passion, you're not doing a job, you have a lifestyle. It's not a job, it's a lifestyle.

Yes.

And it's truly, that's true. Because when I think about people and their passions and I, and I present 10 passion archetypes that we all have in us to, to greater or lesser degrees, the trick is really to understand what our top 3 are. Mm-hmm. Because that helps to sort of define how we show up in the world and where we're likely to find fulfillment. But when we understand those passions, we have a greater sense of how, how exactly can I use these in my life? And it's, it's such a feeling of empowerment, like, okay, I've got an answer here that I can begin to work with for myself. Yeah, it feels really good.

Well, and I think that life can get crazy, as you and I were just talking about, you know, like we get turned upside down, we go through crisis— crises— what is the word?

Crises. You got it right.

Okay, so as we're going through all the things, how do we stay connected to who we are through all the stuff?

And that's exactly the question, isn't it? I think the more deeply we understand ourselves, the more able we are to, to feel that we have a sense of an anchor. Even though this, the seas may feel really choppy, we're not just tethered to nothing, we're tethered to who we are.

Yes.

And where we get, I think, untethered or have a lack of understanding of how to feel more grounded in those difficult situations is when we're trying to be somebody else. We're trying to be who mom and dad said we should be, or, you know, Uncle Harry does this, so you should be like Uncle Harry. Or if you're not like these other people, somehow you're not successful. Oh, we get tied up in those conversations that we have in our heads all too often. Then we don't feel tethered when times are most difficult. So I, you know, posit in a lot of the situations that I describe in this book what it means to go through those situations and feel really anchored to who you are and how you understand yourself better and why you reacted the way you did when you were going through those situations, so that you can understand that there's there's meaning behind that, and the meaning behind that has a lot to do with who you are and what you're here to do.

Wow. I mean, that— you're kind of answering my next question, because if we talk about romantic relationships— one of my favorite—

that was one of my favorite chapters in the book to write.

Oh, good. I love, I love the topic of romantic relationships. But I think if we, if we understand ourselves and our purpose and our passion, how does that then affect like who we even choose to be our partner?

Oh, it's a massive effect on who we choose. First of all, by understanding our purpose and passions, we made the first most and most important choice that we could make. We choose ourselves, right? We choose to be authentically who we are, and we show up without apology. And it then helps us understand what is it I'm looking for in another person and, and in shaping a relationship that's going to be lasting. And the more we understand who we are, the more we can understand what's going to be complementary to that, or what will make me crazy if I find this in another person and I decide, oh, let me, let me see if I can make a long-term relationship happen with this person. No, this person makes me crazy. Why do I have to try to do this? Because somebody once told you relationships are hard. That's just how it is.

No, that is a lie.

That's a lie.

That's a lie. It is a lie. Yeah, but we've all heard it.

We've all— yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I think the most important aspect of understanding, um, who you are and especially understanding your passions is that it puts you in a situation where being in relationship with another person actually becomes easier because you make choices to be with people that you can communicate with effectively. Who are interested in understanding your story and understanding who you are and why you show up the way you do, and you are interested in understanding them as well. It doesn't mean that you have to be perfectly compatible and it be like, I have this passion and you have the same one, oh boy, isn't that great? Sometimes it's not so great, right? Depending upon the passion. So understanding that and understanding where that other person comes from just makes it interacting with one another a whole lot easier and communication a whole lot more effective.

Well, and I just lucked out because when I picked my husband, I had no idea that we would complement each other even in work and what we do. So, you know, we ended up doing work together, and I didn't foresee that. I— that was just pure luck.

That's got to be a good relationship because that'll either make or break you when you're going to work with your partner. Oh my gosh.

Well, I mean, you know, I shouldn't say thankfully. I'd be fine in the same office. He's— I'm working from home. He's working at the office. So we're working together, but we're not together. You know what I mean? Yep. Yep.

Just enough space to make it healthy.

Well, and, you know, it makes me really sad. You know, I want to talk about people's careers because I see so many people feeling stuck in their careers. They're not happy. They're not fulfilling their purpose. I mean, can we help them? Like, how do they— I don't even know what my question is, but I feel so bad for them that they feel stuck. How do we help them find more happiness at work and feel more unstuck?

You know, that's one of the most important things in your life to get right when you think about it. I did a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation some years ago when I was working on my first book, and I would think— I thought to myself, you know, I wonder how many hours we actually spend at work in our lifetime. And this back-of-the-envelope calculation was ridiculous because it assumed that we took our normal vacation, we took our days off, we didn't work more than 8 hours a day, you know, we only worked a 40-hour week, which applies to like nobody. That I anymore, right? And with, with those assumptions in mind, even though they were ridiculous, we were— we will spend more than 85,000 hours of our lives at work. Oh, good Lord. 85,000 hours that you can't get back. It's a massive amount of time. So getting it right when it comes to your career path and the things that you engage in at work is really important And I think all too often people expect my boss is going to make it perfect for me. And while that would be nice, it's often not the case. So you have to make it perfect for yourself, is my philosophy. You have to look at what really lights me up in terms of ideas, opportunities, roles that I could play, and then how do I bring my passions to that role Everybody should be asking themselves that question. How do I bring the, the passions that I have to my role? Because if I can do that, I can find a way to shape that role into something that really works for me. And that gives me a sense of fulfillment every day that I'm doing it. So that's really the key. You have to walk into a role understanding who you are first so that you can bring the best of who you are to what you're doing. Every single day. And then other normal things have to matter there, right? You know, you have to be working for somebody who's not a monster. You know, you have to be interacting with other colleagues and coworkers that you enjoy. You have to be doing a job that you feel is the right thing for you to do in the world versus I'm doing a job that's completely separate from my value system, etc. I mean, those things are sort of the ground rules of making it work. But the real magic is when you understand yourself, because then you can bring the best of who you are to what you're doing and grow the job. People that I know that are passionate, that know who they are, they fundamentally change a job once they've been in it, and they make it better than it was. And that's pretty powerful to watch.

I was just— you, you read my mind because I was just going to tell you about my friend. I'm so proud of her. She went to her boss and said, you know, I need more. Like, I need to be doing things like marketing, and this is how I could help. And, you know, the bosses don't know if we're frustrated if we don't tell them.

That's true, that's true. And I think, you know, most good leaders that I've worked with are really deeply interested in helping the people that are on their teams flourish. I mean, it's to their advantage. If I'm getting tons of discretionary effort out of you that I'm not paying for, yay. I mean, that's a good day. We can get a lot more done. But beyond that, I think most good leaders really want to feel like they're building cultures of thriving in their organization. And those happen when people feel a deep connection to who they are and what they're doing. And they feel that there's meaning to what they're doing every day. It's not just going in and collecting a paycheck and having sort of an economic exchange of brainpower for money. People want more.

Yes.

In all the studies I've done, everyone I've talked to really was seeking something more than just a paycheck for their experience at work. And the leaders who recognized that were much more able to create the environments where that could be possible, and much more likely to listen to somebody like your friend who said, I want more, I need more, I can do more, there's— here are ways I can contribute, and are asking important questions like Is there a way we're asking you to work that's different from the way that you can contribute even more than you are right now? In other words, are we limiting you?

Yeah.

And how, and how should we be structuring things so that you can contribute your very best and feel fulfilled in what you're doing? Those are important questions to have answers to if you're leading people.

Such good advice. I hope there's a lot of people in charge listening to this. Well, and I had told you, you know, I would guess— well, I shouldn't say I guess, we've looked at stats— it's mostly moms who are listening to us right now, and we all want to help our children find their purpose and their passion. And before I ask you, I do want to tell you, my daughter, everyone is telling her to be a kindergarten teacher, and I have to tell you what she said. Well, yes, I would love that, but I, you know, no offense teachers, no offense. She says, I want to make money. I'm like, oh my gosh, she thinks that teachers make no money. She's like, I would love that job, but, but I need to make more money than that. And I was like, oh, that's so sad that that's her response.

It's so sad that that's the condition of how we view educators in our world, isn't it?

I know, I know. You know, I wish we were paying our teachers more, but anyways, we want to help our kids find their purpose and their passion. How can we help direct them?

I think there are a couple of different ways. I think the first thing is to understand, to help your children understand what their passions might be. And that there's a whole chapter in the book on passion-focused parenting that I cover, oh, where I help people understand the characteristics you might see in your child that indicate a particular passion and what you need to do to nurture that. In your child. Perfect. And I think these things show up pretty early. At least the data that I have from the research that I've done shows that, you know, we start to express our passions very early. I can remember mine showing up maybe from about the time I was 7. Little things that I was doing that, you know, with the language I have now, is that, that I'm a builder, transformer, healer. I could see those builder, transformer, healer behaviors trace back as early as 7 years old.

It's amazing.

So I think we come here as we are, right? We come here as well, and then we have opportunities to express that or have it, have it squelched by situations that we find ourselves in. So I think it's really important to do that. I think the other thing to do is to raise each of your children as individuals. You have 3 children, you probably would say they're all different.

So different.

Yeah. And it— and, and you ask yourself, why is that? I've put them in the same environment. I did the same things with them. Why are they so different? Why is one so easy, the other one's so frustrating and exasperating for me to deal with because she challenges me all the time?

Yeah.

Because you've got 3 different kids. That's why. And the environment matters, but also honoring the fact that you've got an individual who is in the process of becoming. Every single child you have is that. They're an individual in the process of becoming, and your job is to allow for that, is to find, as you interact with them, what are their gifts, help them recognize and discover those gifts, and really lean into them instead of saying, why can't you be more like your brother? Which is, if your brother's easy, it's, it's hard not to say that when they're making you crazy. But why am I going to tell you I've never said Well, my mother used to say to me, I hope you get one just like you. Oh my gosh, guess what? It happened.

Isn't that funny? Yes, we have definitely said that. I actually know, I hope that her children are easier. Well, they are so different and they all have such different purposes and passions, and I, and I see it with even the classes they choose to take. It's so interesting.

Yes, and it's funny, you know, the more you lean into the individuality of each of your children, the more enriching it is for you as a parent. I mean, I can say honestly that I have grown so much through my kids. I, I'm not the same person I was before I had children. I have grown as an individual in terms of my perspectives and my insights. And as we all know, those of us who parent, your kids bring you face to face with your own stuff, and you either gonna handle it or you're gonna pass it on to them. And, but if you wanna be a good parent, you're gonna try to handle it. So you learn and grow over and over again with every child that you have. And so as I've looked at this work, this body of work in the context of children and parenting, I found that understanding what your child's passions might be helps you then figure out what are the situations I should expose them to. So they can test out this passion so that they can see, is this really who they— who I am and want to be? And what new insights or interests is this going to spark in me? Because that's really where the magic comes in. You know, you've got basically an unmolded entity here coming into being, and your job is, as a parent, I think, is to expose them to as many interesting things that seem to align with what they get excited about and see where it goes. And you learn along the way. So true. My son was a history nut and ended up majoring in history. I, I learned more history reading his papers in college than I ever learned all the time I was going to school as a science major. Because, you know, science major, you don't get a lot of time to take other types of courses. And, uh, and I, and I learned and I grew as a result of interacting with him and seeing the things that he was interested in.

I love seeing my daughter's love for history. I wish that I, I wish that I knew her. I told her I wish I knew her in high school. I think she would have sparked my interest. Yeah, because I just love seeing her enthusiasm. It's just so cool to see what excites them to learn about.

It is, and it's often very scary when you find that your child has an interest in something that you think to yourself, I don't know. Are they going to be able to make a living doing this?

No.

And still encourage them in that direction. And I, I think the trick is wide-eyed realism, saying, you know, part of your choice in a career, in a direction that you might take with your life, has to do with the things that you feel like you want. Your daughter said something important: I want to make more money. I think the thing to dig in with to with, with her on that is, what does that mean to you? What does that mean? What is the lifestyle you're looking for? And, and how do you balance that with doing something meaningful that makes you feel like you're contributing to the world? And, and we all have that. We all have a sort of baseline level of pay we need to feel like we need to have. We all have a lifestyle that we feel we want to have. Some of it is a little more realistic than what we see on social media, which, you know, children today are being grossly exposed to, right? If you don't have the same handbag, belt, car, you know, vacation as the very rich and famous, then somehow you're a failure, which is all nonsense. But it's, it's something that's put in front of them over and over again.

Yeah.

So I think, you know, really getting into a deep conversation about what that really means for them and balancing that with the passions that they have allows you to be in a better situ— better position to sort of guide them effectively.

It probably stems from me telling her how expensive she is. I'm going to ask her the question, but I'm going to guess I can figure out where that comes from. Can I buy this? Can I buy this? I'm like, you just got a new bathing suit. Another one?

Well, tempering that a little bit is a good thing because that sets her up for realistic life, right? If you go out every day and you buy the new bathing suit, you're pretty much going to run out of money before the rent is due.

Thank you, that is excellent advice. I'm gonna pass that on to her, you know. And I'm really passionate about learning and growing in life. You and I think that's super important. I think people don't realize that life is a It's a whole learning journey. So how do we help them understand that learning and reinvention is part of just everyday life?

I think that we do a better job of using the teachable moments that life presents us to do that. I think one of the things we do as parents— yeah, and it's done out of love— we try really hard to shield our kids from the tough stuff. Mm. You know, I mean, it's hard for us when they first learn to walk because they fall down and you want to run over and pick them up and dust off their knees for them and make everything okay. But they have to fall down so they can walk. And the same is true, I think, with different life situations, using those as an opportunity to say, this is what happens in this situation. Here's what you can learn from it. Here's how you've grown as a result from it, and celebrate that growth is really, really important for us to do. And unfortunately, we don't do enough of it at the moment it's happening. We do it retrospectively a lot, but not at the moment that it's happening. So I think we should take advantage a bit more of that. And then talk to them about who they are as a person and what their passions are and how that lends resilience to the situation. They're not going to fold. They're not going to crumble. It's going to hurt for a while. But they're part— part of life is understanding where can I draw the resilience from within me so that I can soldier on and go to the next life lesson that's out there for me to learn and grow as a result of this one.

You use such a key word that we want to rescue. I think mothers naturally feel like I'm going to swoop in and help. But I think we forget our kids are so resilient. We forget that part.

Yes, but I'm guilty of sitting on the sidelines of the soccer field and watching some kid like nail my son, slam him flat out on the ground, and I want to get up and, you know, go get that kid by the scruff of the neck. Don't— how dare you! Until you hit my son. And then he would remind me at the end of the game, Mom, soccer's a contact sport. I was like, wait, I thought I was saving you because I wasn't letting you play football, but you're playing soccer and getting the crap knocked out of you on the field.

Tell me about it. Yeah, soccer is brutal.

Yeah, it looks like it's not. And with no padding, that's the thing.

I know.

She got shin guards, but that's about it.

I do remember my son saying, you are not allowed to come down to the field. It doesn't matter if I'm hurt. You cannot come down here.

I know.

I'm like, okay.

Okay, I know I'd have to sit in the stands with my hand over my mouth like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened to him.

Oh my God, that is not fun to watch. I have lots of experience with that. I did not enjoy that. Everyone's like, Max, are you gonna play soccer or football in college? And he's like, no. And I'm like, good, done with that.

Yes, because no matter where the college was, you'd have to find a way to go to all the games, even if it was hundreds of miles away, I'm sure, right?

Oh, I love seeing where my friends are going to watch their kids play, but I'm very happy that I don't have to deal with any more concussions.

There you go.

You know? Okay. So I know you use scientifically grounded tools, so I want to touch on that. Can you share with us a practical exercise or mindset shift that they can all use who are listening?

Well, I'm going to talk about a couple of different things, um, that I think I have found through the research works. The first is reflection. Um, we don't do enough of it. We, we as, as humans are so busy running through life from one thing to the next thing to the next thing, rarely do we take the time to actually sit and reflect and make meaning of the experience that we just had, or the experience that just got— we just got exposed to. And when you reflect, you change something. You develop a deeper insight about yourself. You develop a deeper connection to the things that you did or experienced so that you feel a greater sense of fulfillment from them. And you develop a deeper sight line into the things in the future that might sort of great, bring you joy, where you should be focusing your time and your energy. So I think reflection is super important, and we don't do enough of it. And certainly in the work setting, we do, we do a pretty poor job of that. It's sort of like, okay, done with this project, on to the next, yay. Rarely do we even take the time to celebrate the things that we've accomplished. So I think that that's really important. So I provided with the book, um, behind every chapter, a host of reflection questions. And in the toolkit at permissiontobeyoubook.com, there's a toolkit that has a host of reflection exercises and self-assessments in different categories, depending upon what you might want to examine for yourself. So I think that's really important. Um, the second, and I think equally powerful tool that I alluded to earlier is called the Passion Profiler. It's a psychometric instrument that I developed some years ago and have refined over time. That is designed to identify the 10 passions that operate in everyone and specifically identify the top 3 passions that are important to you so that you can understand more deeply what it means to be a person who is a transformer, what it means to be a person who's a creator, what it means to be a person who's a teacher. There's even a teacher archetype for your daughter, by the way. Um, and what are the strengths you're likely to have because you have particular passions, and also what are the vulnerabilities you might be more subject to because you have those same passions. You know, the passions have the flip side of the coin, right? There's the positive side, and then there's a side of the coin associated with the passion that could get you into trouble in certain situations. So you want to be aware of it. It doesn't mean it's a failure. It doesn't mean it's a weakness. It means it's something to watch out for, kind of like I equate it to a yellow flashing warning light at an intersection which says, be careful here, be cautious here, slow down. And that same instrument also helps you to understand the environments in which you're most likely to thrive. With the book, there is a QR code in the back of the book that gives you a discount to take the Passion Profiler. There's two of them currently available, one for self-awareness, which I recommend everybody explore, and one for romantic relationships. Which is also interesting. And having the opportunity to do the, do that sort of comparison— what were your results, what were my results— if we're involved in a relationship together, tells us a lot. So I think those two things are really great places for the average person to start who wants to just begin developing a greater sense of self-knowledge without feeling like I've got to go through 18 courses that I pay for online and you know, um, find 5 therapists who can help me to do this. Not that I, I discount therapy, I think it's great, but I think a lot of times people just want something that they can use and begin to do themselves. And agree, this is it.

Well, I mean, from your experience, what do you feel like the biggest barrier people have to finding their purpose? What's getting in the way?

I think for many people it's impatience, wanting quick answers, and not appreciating the fact that this is really a lifelong journey. I think that understanding your passions is a big help because I view passions as, as the outward expression of your purpose. Like, the reason that you demonstrate certain passions is because there's an internal purpose that's driving you to demonstrate those. And so I don't— and I think the other misconception is that your purpose is one thing, and once you've done it and you found it, that's it. It's absolutely not the case. I think you're expressing your purpose over and over again. And you know when you do— you know when you know that you've done it? Every time you feel like you've used a passion in a meaningful way, you've expressed your purpose at the same time. And that's the powerful thing to remember.

Amazing. I mean, do you feel like it changes over time from, you know, we might start our career in our 20s and now in my 40s, do you feel like people change over time?

I think people are given through experiences that they have in life, different opportunities to express different passions that they have. I think from my work, I can see that we tend to retain our top 3 passions our whole life. They might shift positions. What was in the number 2 position might go to the number 1. What was in the number 3 might go to the number 2 over time based on the situations that we are exposed to. Um, but I think that we keep those passions and then we find ourselves in situations where I got a chance to do this one thing and boy, it, it woke this passion up in me that I haven't used in a while. And I, I accomplished this particular thing as I was using that passion and that felt really good. That means you were working on purpose. You're doing— that was your purpose at that moment in time, and you, and you accomplished it through the expression of that passion and the work you did with it.

That makes so much sense. I mean, you've given us so much advice. I mean, I've taken it all in. Do you feel like there's an area that I didn't cover that you would like to talk about?

I think that we, we don't often appreciate the power of understanding our passions when we're navigating really, really difficult times.

Oh yes.

And I think it's important to, to do that because it helps us to remember that we have something to draw upon when things are difficult that can help guide and direct how we navigate those situations. When I first wrote the book, I, I opened it up with a chapter on navigating a crisis, and the crisis that I used as an example was COVID, because we all went through that. Yes. And it shaped and woke up— woke us up in a big way. And I think, um, through that experience personally, I was able to understand how to bring my passions to doing something meaningful at a time when nothing made sense, when it seemed like everything was upside down and the world didn't know directionally where it was going. And that helped me to feel more on point, helped me, helped me feel more balanced as I was using those passions. I also talk about, um, later in the book, at the sort of bookend the book a little bit, with navigating loss. And in that particular chapter, I talk about, um, two situations of loss, one with someone who was older in life and had a diagnosis that wasn't favorable, and what it— what I learned helping that person navigate through that time. And also another person who lost a child very early. And both of those situations call upon us to show up in heroic ways that we didn't know was possible for us to show up in. But at the same time, our passions influence how we react to those situations. And how much blame or guilt we might carry over time that we couldn't make it all better. So understanding where that comes from allows you to alleviate it in yourself. And I think the last piece that I— we should, um, make sure we mention to, to your viewers and your listeners is that there is this notion of permission that is so important, which is why the book got titled Permission to Be You. Because I've worked with people over the years and I found that sometimes they get really, really close, like, I get, I get my purpose, I get my passions, you know, but I feel stuck. I'm— I understand them, but somehow I'm not using them. And in most cases, I found that the reason they weren't using them, that they felt stuck, is because there was a permission they needed to give themselves so they could take that first step. And so the last chapter is called 10 Permissions to Give Yourself. And there are 10 in there that might be different from the 10 that you need, might be different from the 10 that somebody else who's listening needs. But the important thing is to examine that. Where am I stuck? And where, where are the permissions that I need to give myself so that I can move forward? And sometimes it's permission to be vulnerable or permission to fail. Like, I might not be good at this. Okay. You're going to try it anyway. Sometimes it's permission to be loved. Sometimes it's permission to play. Sometimes it's just permission to pause and take a break. Yeah, but we all have them. So that's an important aspect of making this journey as well. So slow down. Don't try to do it— it's not an add water and stir kind of process. Be gentle with yourself and show yourself some grace as you try to make this journey, because it's a lifelong one. It's not a sprint. It's marathon.

I, I love that you're telling us all to be patient because I think one of the things we're really good at is being impatient with ourselves.

Yes. Oh, we've got that down to a fine science. We're all good at that.

We're excellent at that. So, I mean, you have so much good advice to share with us and you know that I need to read your book. Tell us where to find your book.

You can find it anywhere books are sold. Easy spot to start is Amazon.

Yeah.

And you can go to permissiontobeyoubook.com. There's links there to get you to any place you might wanna buy.

And where can they find Fabulous You?

Same place, permissiontobeyoubook.com. I'm, I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram, so I hope people will connect with me.

Well, I knew that I was gonna love talking to you, and I knew I was gonna love this topic. I mean, I love the work that you're doing.

Thank you. Thank you. It's my pleasure to do it, and I hope people find it helpful. That's why I do it, because that's my purpose.

I love that. Well, thank you for spending time with us today and sharing your expertise, and I have no doubt that this is going to be helpful.

Oh, thank you so much, and thanks for what you're doing with this show. It's phenomenal.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much. This is Rebecca Green, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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