Episode 535: Calm in the Chaos

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast, and I am very excited today because I get to talk to the absolutely wonderful Erin Rubin. Erin, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Thank you so much, and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

I have been so excited to talk to this lady, and I woke up this morning at like 5 AM to no internet.

That must have been very stressful.

Oh, so it's been an interesting morning, and she is fabulous, and she worked with me this morning, so I can't thank her enough for her flexibility. But let me tell you about Erin. She is the co-founder of Mama Zen. How awesome does that sound? She's a mindful parenting platform created—

she—

oh, Mama Zen is a mindful parenting platform created to support parents navigating anxiety, burnout, and the overwhelming pressures of modern family life. Her path to parental well-being began in the tech and startup world. How cool is that? But it was her own experience as a mother that inspired her to build a safe and supportive space for parents. Alongside her husband and co-founder, hypnotherapist Jake Rubin, Erin has helped more than 182,000 parents worldwide through a blend of mindfulness, cognitive hypnotherapy, and innovative technology. With both strategic insight and heartfelt empathy, Irin shares practical tools to help parents break generational patterns, build resilience, and create more calm in even the most complex family dynamics. So now everyone knows why I've been so excited to talk to you. And Mama Zen, like, could you have come up with a better— like, that is the best title that you could have come up with. Like, tell us what was happening in your life that made you realize that parents needed this.

So, oh my God, introduction to motherhood was a mess. It started with realizing that there's not much control. Anymore, that life is going to be chaotic. I was, um, with my first pregnancy, I was diagnosed with IUGR and I had to be induced. So right away it was, oh my God, what is happening? So my first delivery was so traumatic. Um, my baby then had to be hospitalized for a week because I got an infection during that delivery. Oh no. And it affected breastfeeding. I thought I was going to breastfeed for 2 years. Ah, forget about that. The thing is, we think the whole planning and wishing was so far from reality. And I think we have these thoughts and ideas about how we're going to be as moms, but then we actually, when we actually get there, Wow, it's so different. So that put me in a space of overwhelm, stress, burnout, rage. I didn't recognize myself anymore. And I started having, experiencing all kinds of physical illness feelings, right? So dreading the morning, hard to get out of bed. Why am I so low energy all the time? Why am I just not feeling well? What is wrong with me? And I think a lot of moms go through it thinking that it's a physical issue when in reality it's really an emotional and mental issue. And I don't want to call it issue because it's not really an issue. It's just the overwhelm is so loud and so overwhelming that if we don't deal with that the right way, we kind of sink. Yes, I know.

I'm just going back there with you to the beginning. I'm going back to the beginning, and everything you're describing sounds so spot on. And I remember the lack of sleep. Yeah, how that makes you feel rageful just because you're not sleeping.

Yes. Yeah, how do they torture people, right? They prevent them from sleeping. So it starts with that, and on top of it, it's so— there's so much to do. These babies are not capable of doing anything. So if you don't have an experience of dealing with and taking care of newborns, you are— you have no idea. So the villages are gone. We don't see other moms doing it. We don't help other moms. You know, when you had the village, you had teenagers helping their parents, their siblings. They were already doing this. We don't do that anymore. We go to high school, then we go to college, then we start a career. I haven't seen a baby in 20 years, you know, before becoming a mom. So I had no idea. I had no idea how they can't even control their fingers, or their vision is so bad, and the crying is so stressing. So I really didn't know. And you are in your home alone in the middle of the night breastfeeding and cleaning, and, and everybody's sleeping, and you go, what the hell is happening? There's no support system anymore. So if you're so alone, where's your outlet? Where, how do you find things to help you through this period? And that's exactly why I created MamaZen, because it was so loud. The, the need was so loud that I had to share what I found that was helping me with the world.

Amazing. I needed you. I mean, I still need you. Well, I think no matter what age our kids are, right?

It's true.

You know, I'm— I am going to be very honest, and I— and hopefully this helps someone. When I gave birth to my first child, I called my mom crying every day, and she came over every day.

And that is amazing that you have it, but some of us live like in a different state.

Yeah. Yeah.

What do you do then? And we're so spread now. You're right. I think in the '40s we lived in the same neighborhood. Now everybody is living in faraway places and yes, we don't have that support system anymore. And sometimes we don't even want to hear what our mom has to say, which is a different story. Right. But millennial moms want to figure it out on their own and we're very tough and that's how we were raised. Yeah. And it's hard for us to have people, you know, tell us what to do. So it's even harder for us to find the right solution. But I think that because they don't live with us anymore, it's hard for them also to know how much can I step in, how much should I be doing?

Yes. Yes. So we know that parents are carrying anxiety and burnout quietly. We're not talking about it. Why do you think it's become so widespread?

It is because we're in constant fight or flight mode and we don't even know it. We forgot what the feeling of being calm feels like. And that's what modern society is. We need to be stimulated all the time. We're not taking breaks for being mindful and doing self-care. And I think we don't know how to do it because nobody showed us how. That's true. So if you really think about it, when you were growing up, when your parents were, you know, getting irritated or being flooded, they never said, hey, I'm getting irritated right now, so I'm gonna take a timeout for myself for 5 minutes. And they never said, I'm super angry right now, so I'm gonna go for a walk. They never really showed us how to calm down. And the initial reaction was the rage and the yelling and the punishing and the, you know, the really scary feeling when your parent loses it. That's what we saw. So that's why our subconscious mind is— that's what's familiar to it. So unfortunately, we take it into our own parenting experience and it comes back. And that's why you sound like your mom or sound like your dad and you hate it.

Hmm.

So I think that the most important thing right now for any parent listening is think what is triggering you. Is it coming from your childhood? Be aware, be aware of why and when exactly this is happening, and then start working on, on calming your nervous system down. And there are some tricks to do it, like cold water on your hands or go step outside. But sometimes we don't do that, and then we stay with the nervous system is on high alert, and that causes the anxiety. So what Mama Zen does is every session starts with an induction that puts you in a very calm state. So we take you out of that fight or flight mode, because when you're in it, it doesn't matter what I tell you, you will not hear it. So the sessions start with a very relaxing 10-15 minutes. Sometimes it depends how deep the session is, and then we go into the meat of the session. And then through visualization and, and suggestions, we're helping you to create a new reality. Now your mind doesn't know you're doing a session on Mamazen. It actually creates that reality in your mind, and then when you're being triggered again that pops back into your subconscious mind, and you can choose, am I going the regular route of the yelling and the anger, or do I choose the new path I created for myself? And that's a very empowering moment, by the way. And when I noticed it the first time, I was like, wow, I could do that.

So that's wonderful.

I think really work on calming your nervous system down. That's what you need to focus on.

So I'm going to take you through two different parents. You've got me who's dealing with teenage attitudes.

Yes.

And you have other parents who might be dealing with like toddler meltdowns. You know, there's all different— there's moms with all different ages listening. Can you walk us through— we're being triggered by our toddler's meltdown or our teenager's attitude— how do we calm our nervous system?

So I think it's important to also know we don't do scripts because like you said, motherhood stress and triggers are, they're here for a lifetime, right?

Yes.

So if you don't know how to calm yourself down and you're using a script with a 3-year-old, that script will not work with your teenager. So if you know how to calm your nervous system down for a toddler, you will know how to do it with your teenager. And I've noticed it with myself. I have a, a 12-year-old at home and she's going through her own changes.

Yeah.

I'm able to stay calm through, through it, and therefore she's not going into that emotional storm. So I think it's very important for every parent is to Work on co-regulation. That's a very important topic.

Mm-hmm.

And co-regulation doesn't mean you tell your child to relax and yell it at them. That's not co-regulation.

You need to relax.

Yes. That's called dysregulation.

Yes.

So the important thing is to tell your child to do something with them, an activity that keeps you calm and them calm at the same time. So it can be, let's go put cold water on our hands here. I want you to come and, and for a toddler, this is more for a toddler and teenager, I want you to come listen to my heart beating.

Mm.

Or what I do with my 9-year-old is I start deep breathing. She doesn't hear me at all. She's not, when she gets flooded, doesn't matter what you say, out the window.

Yeah.

So I start deep breathing. Now she doesn't even realize I'm doing it, but her nervous system does. And as soon as I start doing it, she copies me by the third breath. She starts deep breathing as well. And that's how we co-regulate. So it works very well with her. So there are, there are tricks that you could do, um, figure out what works for your child. Some like physical, some need you to say calming things. Like my older daughter is more auditory, so I tell her, You're very stressed right now, which is stressing me out, so I can't really help you. So can we calm down and then I'll be able to talk to you and, and, and give you an answer? And she hears that and she goes, oh, okay, I didn't even know I was, you know, talking fast or being very demanding, right? They don't realize they do it. So you have to figure out what's working with your child and then just, just do it together.

That's so true, because they're all so different.

They are. They're so different. They have super different sensitivity levels. Some, their love language is different, right? So, and your love language might be different completely from theirs. So whatever is working for you doesn't necessarily work for them. So you have to really figure out what your child is about.

I do need to find out my kids' love languages. I think it's time for them to take like a little quiz. My husband and I did that, and it's been so helpful.

It is, because we're all different. So if you like words of affirmations and they don't care about it, yeah, then it doesn't matter how much you tell them that they're amazing. They're gonna be like, I don't care.

I know. And I'm over here, just help me, just do something.

Yeah, but they don't know. Yeah, you're right, you have to do the test. They don't know.

I know, I do need to do the test. So Modern parents have such unrealistic expectations. What, what do you think modern parents are trying to live up to that's hurting them right now?

Perfectionism.

Yes.

Break free from that concept. It doesn't exist. Look at nature. It's super imperfect and yet it's so beautiful. I think that's a big problem and I think society made us feel like if we don't do everything we're not the perfect mom. It's not true. It really is not true. You are the perfect mom if you're there for your children, if you're present, if you're teaching them emotional regulation, if you listen. That, that's really all you need. They remember that more than anything else. They don't remember what you got them for Christmas 2 years ago. They already forgot. That's true. So forget about being a perfect mom and being Focus more on being emotionally regulated because they'll remember the yelling, they'll remember the cursing, they'll remember the punishing, they remember that. So focus on emotionally regulation for yourself. And then I, I also think that social media— stop comparing yourself to other moms. What works for you and your kids is the best thing. What you see online is most of the time not even reality. It's all fake. And they are shown moments, like such small moments out of a full day, and it doesn't represent anything. So why would you even go online and be like, oh, I'm not— I could do better? This is what those people do. That's their job. They treat it as a job to show you how amazing they are. So don't, don't focus on other moms. Just do what works for you, what makes you and your kids happy.

Well, and like you said, it's not even true. There was a mom who posted a photo, and she— and I was so proud of her because she said, you should have seen what was happening before this photo. So it's right, it's, it's not reality.

It's not, and it can't be. No, because there's so many different people in, in, you know, in one household that you can't control every moment, and It's not all bliss.

No, no. So you and your husband combine mindfulness and cognitive hypnotherapy, both of which sounds fabulous. Can you talk about how those approaches help parents?

Yes. So the mindfulness really helps with being in the present because if you're too concerned about what you did in the past, then you can't enjoy the moment and it causes a lot of guilt. And if you're living in the future, there are a lot of things you can't really control, and most of them never happen.

Right.

So instead of being in the now, you're all over the place. And think about the word present. It's a gift, right? So the really, the only thing that, the only moment that really, really exists is now. So that's the mindfulness part. The cognitive hypnotherapy is very powerful, and research has already shown that cognitive hypnotherapy is more effective than talk therapy because we use, um, the science of neuroplasticity. So if you go to talk therapy and you start sharing how much you're not enjoying motherhood, how everything is hard, how you don't like your kids' behavior, well, guess what? You're reinforcing those thoughts. It's not going to make your life easier. It's actually going to make it worse because if you expect your kids to misbehave, they will. So through, through neuroplasticity, we're starting to create these positive associations with your motherhood experience. And positive emotions and positive reactions. And through that, you're actually able to create a positive experience for yourself. So if you wake up and you want— in the morning you say, my intention for today is to be calm and listen to my kids and share a moment with them, ask them some questions, or sit down with them and just focus on them. Guess what will happen that day? Exactly what you thought of, right? So we have to create more positive thoughts to have a positive experience. And that's exactly how our sessions work. So talk therapy helps to get to the root of the problem, but sometimes it can take 20 years to overcome what you're going through. And we don't have that time as parents.

No, no.

So our sessions work almost immediately, which is Amazing. We're getting amazing results from moms. Um, our users are reporting— 95% of them are reporting reduction in anxiety and stress. Like, amazing, unheard of numbers because we use those modalities.

So there's a mother listening right now. She's feeling so overwhelmed and negative. Tell her, like, where would you begin for her? What would you tell her to start with?

I think start with the awareness of how you feel. Where is this coming from? And then start to focusing on pausing before reacting. Mm-hmm. And it might be a little bit hard in the beginning, but over time you'll do it better. And there are some steps in my book that can be very helpful for people who like to read and not necessarily want to do the sessions. But I really recommend everybody to just download the app and start the free trial and give it a try.

Yes.

Just try and see how you feel afterwards. Do you feel calmer? Are you, are you noticing things different about you when your kids are triggering you? And you will notice things. And I think that's very empowering for a mom who's been, you know, so overwhelmed for so many years. Yes.

The app, the book, I'm loving it all. Tell, but tell us, I know that you talk about generational.

Yes.

Patterns. Can you tell us like what are the common patterns that we're bringing with us and unfortunately passing on?

Yeah. So we have a, a series for that because it's so strong and it's so wired into our subconscious mind. So the patterns are yelling, angry tone. Grabbing, right, using physical, and just really the general behavior. Like, we just want to break that and not behave the same way. So it's— it can be as general as just, I just don't want to behave the same way. So those are some of the main important parts, are yelling, grabbing, and just staying away from those methods.

So, so how are you seeing these parents start to break those patterns?

So that, that's what the sessions do?

Yes.

So they, they'll play the session and it will help them to overcome that pattern they're stuck in through visualizing a new pattern for yourself. And how, how do you want to raise your kids? Start envisioning it. And through the session, you're actually able to do it. And like I said before, through neuroplasticity and your brain power, you'll be able to do it. Yeah, you have to try the session, right?

I—

it's very hard to explain how exactly it works, but it's, it's through your brain process we're able to help you.

I love that you're doing this. I just wanted to tell you that my, my daughter will say to me, why are you laughing? This is not funny. I'm like, well, at least I'm thinking to myself, you're not yelling. You're not yelling.

Yes, and sometimes we laugh because we just— the reaction, we're in stress mode. I do sometimes too, and I start laughing. I'm like, you know what, I was laughing because I was actually stressed out. And it was just my reaction. So if you explain it to her later, she'll be like, oh, okay, so he wasn't like laughing at me. No, he wasn't laughing at you. No, no stress. I didn't even know how to react. So that's what happened. It's not— I'm sorry if you, if you felt like it was your fault. It wasn't. Yeah, I definitely wasn't laughing at you. It's just, it's a reaction, right, to the student.

Oh yeah, she, she understands because she started laughing when the principal was yelling at someone. And I know the principal, and I said to her, she gets it from me. She's not being disrespectful. It's like a stress response.

It is. I totally agree. It happened to me too before, and I was thinking about, yeah, why do I do that? And then I realize it's, it's a stress response because you just don't know what to do, so you just, you go to that. But yeah, it's definitely better than yelling.

So, you know, we talked a little bit about misconceptions, you know, the perfectionism. Any What are some other misconceptions you're seeing parents having about parenting?

The guilt that if you feel guilty, you're a better mom. Oh my God, guilt is the worst.

It is the worst.

It doesn't move you forward. It actually creates a very vicious cycle to your mental health. It's not something— listen, if you, if something happened and you misbehaved with your child, then you have to, to have a closure. You have to apologize, and you have to explain and talk to your child about it. But to rehash it in a guilt fashion and not sleep for hours and hours is really— it's too much.

Yeah, mothers are very good at torturing themselves, and they'll say things like, I can't go on the field trip because I have to work, and they'll feel terrible about it. Or, I can't go to this performance because my other kid has something, and they just torture themselves with guilt instead of, you know, understanding that they can only do so much.

I think that you have to really focus on, on what you are showing your children, right? So if you are a working mom You need to be proud of that because your child sees you as, as a working parent and they learn from that how to be as an adult.

Yeah.

So, and then yes, your kids, sometimes you have to go with one kid and you can't join the other. As long as you keep open communications with them, they will, they will understand. And you might not be able to go this time, but you might be able to join them next time. So be as open as you can and explain to them why you have a challenge. And usually they are pretty understanding, and they might say, yeah, I'm disappointed. And you can tell them, I understand you're disappointed, and I'm sorry you feel this way, but thank you for sharing with me you're disappointed. I will do my best to join next time. So I say no sometimes too to things that I just can't do. And there's the face and the stuff like that makes me feel a little bit bad at the moment, but then I'm like, but what is something else you would like to do with me that maybe we could do that. They'll really appreciate it if you just speak to them about it.

Well, and I love that you're saying just be open about it. So don't hide from what's going on.

Yes.

Actually talk about it and explain what's going on.

And they, they really appreciate it because they feel like you are giving them, you're, you're prioritizing them. Yeah. While you might not be able to do everything, but at least they get that connection with you and that connection is super important.

So true. How, how do you think we raise emotionally resilient kids? How can we do that?

It's really showing them how to, to be and showing them that, hey, I use audio sessions on MamaZen to calm myself down. We have sessions for the kids as well, starting age 4. Would you like to try one as well? And they get so excited. To do it. So really showing them by example how you do it, it would be the easiest way to teach them because they are like sponges.

Yes.

I want to do what you do, mommy. Can you show me how you do it? Can we do it together? And it's so nice. A lot of moms tell me we do the session before bedtime because it helps them sleep and stay in bed all night.

Yes.

We just listen together and that's our new, our new little thing that we do together before bedtime and it's so special.

Whether we're doing a meditation, doing yoga, exercising, whatever we are doing, they wanna come do it with us is what I see.

They do. They want to learn. And if you teach them that instead of watching Netflix or doing things you're not supposed to, you can't, you can't watch Netflix and then tell 'em, but you can't watch TV.

Right.

And also the endless scrolling on social media. They see us do it. And then we get upset with them for doing it.

Agree.

It doesn't work that way. You have to make sure that what you do, know they're watching and they're noticing and they take on. So really work on emotional regulation and show them. I'm listening to this, um, audio thing. You wanna, you want to join me? They'll be so excited.

I agree with everything that you're saying, and I laugh when parents complain about their children's time on social media. When I see them constantly on their phone. I'm like, where do you think they are learning that from? And I am guilty, so I'm not saying I'm not.

But you know what the best way is? When you're around them, put the phone in a different room.

Yes, yes.

You don't see it, they don't see it. Done.

Perfect. That is excellent. I like to leave my phone away from the dinner table, away from the— yes. Focus on the family.

Yeah, it can be very distracting to everybody.

Mm-hmm. How do you think we protect our own peace? Because that's what we all want.

Protecting our own peace. So that's a very interesting concept, right? Because there are so many moving parts throughout the day and it sometimes can be really hard. I think creating a schedule for yourself that's set in stone to do whatever physical activity you need to do, whatever mindfulness or meditation you need to do, and that is it. Like, you don't have excuses, nobody else can interfere with that schedule, and you just get that time to do it. So it's really prioritizing it in your own schedule, even if you don't feel like it, which sometimes we just don't feel like it, but we still go and do it. So your peace is very easy to be taken away. So you have to protect it sometimes from yourself.

Yes.

Yeah. So really think about when should I find moments of peace? Throughout the day, and those are the moments you cherish the most, and you prioritize them, and that's it. You're not moving from those moments. Now listen, if there's an emergency, obviously, and you have to deal with something, go ahead. But over time, it just becomes so much easier. Like when I do a session on Mama Zen, I mean, I'm in that space so fast. I'm in that calm space, so it just comes so easily. It's like training for a marathon, right? It's so hard in the beginning, but then you do it and it gets easier over time. So finding your inner peace requires some work and prioritizing it. Yes.

How long does a session take?

We have sessions as short as 2 minutes.

Oh wow.

The daily Mind Power Minute is 2 minutes. It's really to help people to just keep, keep doing it because we are short on time sometimes. Then you have sessions anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes. And if you wanna do really deep work, it's anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes.

That's awesome.

So it's really short. Yeah.

Well, you've helped more than 182,000 parents. Yes. What have you learned from this? What has surprised you from all this work that you've done?

I think what I'm most proud about is that we provide a solution that works. Yes. That parents are experiencing the change so fast. And I, I think what I learned is any mom really can benefit from this. It's such a unique solution. So I just recommend to parents, like, start exploring some of the sessions and really get, get the feel of what it feels like. Because I feel like so many moms are just walking around stressed out all day long. I think that's the most shocking thing is, what are you doing for your stress? Oh, I don't know. How can you not know? It's one of the most important things. So I was never okay with that feeling, and it was such a lousy feeling that I had to do something big about it. But not everybody has to. Just do the work for yourself. Do the small little moments throughout the day and come back to your inner peace and, and emotionally be emotionally regulated. And I think it's gonna make a big difference.

So there's parents listening who feel burned out, feel like they're failing. Tell them where to begin. Where— where— what can we leave them with?

I think really the, the first thing is to know you can come out of it. This is not done. This is not your reality forever and ever. There are things you can do to come out of it. The burnout is a very physical, uh, feeling, and it's usually controlled by the mind And if you're under a lot of duress all the time, then you'll feel more burned out more frequently for longer periods of time. And unfortunately, doctors don't really know how to deal with it. Sometimes they put us medication for it that doesn't really help with the source of the problem. So realize that it's not your fault. Modern motherhood is very demanding. Society is very demanding of us of a lot of things, so it's not your fault. And start somewhere. Read the book, do a session, start somewhere. You have to start. You have to really decide, today's the day I'm, I'm starting to work on this. I am a priority. That's also a big problem. We don't prioritize ourselves and If you don't prioritize yourself, guess what? Your kids suffer. And you love your kids more than anything. So if you take care of yourself, they will benefit. They are the first little humans that will benefit. So prioritize yourself. It's okay. And if you don't think you have time, you do.

Yeah.

Look at your phone. How many hours did you spend on social media today? How many times? How many hours? You spend on Netflix. And by the way, Netflix is saying their biggest competitor is sleep. So people have less sleep because of Netflix. It's awful. So prioritize good sleep, prioritize healthy nutrition, prioritize your mental well-being. Sleep, sleep, sleep. It's the most important thing. And there are so many things we do that interrupt our sleep— drinking wine before bedtime, Um, watching Netflix for too long and being all wired before you go to sleep. So start prioritizing sleep. It, you, it's so helpful when you get a good night's sleep to be calmer, right? It's such a, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's almost like the most obvious thing that our society forgot how to do.

My tolerance for everything, my kids, my husband, my work is so much better when I get a good night's sleep.

Definitely.

Yes.

I 100%. It's such an amazing tool, but we forgot the skill of how to sleep well. Also, you know, sometimes the medications we take are affecting our sleep. So it's, it's a vicious cycle. So you have to really, really figure out what's working for you and what is not working for you. And we have a lot of moms actually that are getting off of anxiety medication and they use MamaZen as a tool to— wonderful to be able to do it because it's so hard.

So hard. So anything that I didn't ask you that you want to share?

I think we covered a lot of different topics and emotions, which was really, really great. I think let your kids also try Mama Zen and see how they feel, because I feel like sometimes they're also stuck in their cycle of bedtime struggles or communication is very important. Here's something. Um, if you tell your child, oh, you've always been a bad sleeper, you're a bad sleeper, guess what will happen?

They'll be a bad sleeper.

Oh yeah. Or if you tell your child, oh my God, you're such a bad kid. You're always doing bad stuff. Well, guess what? They'll continue doing bad stuff. So always communicate how you want them to behave.

Yes, I love your teenager.

You are a good teenager. You make good decisions. Yeah, well, guess what? That teenager will make good decisions because that's what you—

you—

it's not a— I don't want to call it brainwash, but it's— you're telling them how you want them to be, and their subconscious mind hears it, so they act the way you want them to be.

So true.

Communication is very, very important. If you yell at your kids and they yell back and then you yell louder, guess what? You're teaching them to be very loud yellers. So don't do that. That, that whole yelling louder war does not work.

Get quieter. Yeah, get quiet.

Notice you get quieter and they'll be like, oh, what did you say? They almost like freak out, like Wow, what she said must be really important. I should listen now because she's whispering.

So funny. Oh my goodness. Well, tell everyone, um, where to get your book.

Yeah, so go on Amazon. It's called The Mamas and Parenting Method, and it's available on Kindle, or you can buy the print. And it's a great book. I wrote it because I wanted to process my experience. How did I get here over time? And how What steps did I take? So it's more logical kind of journey of 7 steps of how I got here. And moms who will read it, it's very relatable, very easy to read. I made it very fun and very raw because I wanted moms to know, hey, we're all going through this in different levels or different times, but we're all going through it. And why you feel this way and how to overcome it. So it's a great read. And then you can download the app from Android or, or iOS and, um, get, get the free trial and just give it a try because it's really nice to feel that calmness.

Well, thank you for creating your app and your book and for helping moms because we all need it.

Yes.

And thank you for being flexible today and spending time with me and sharing all of your expertise with us.

Yes, thank you so much for having me and for asking me all those questions, because I think a lot of moms think they are really alone. They do. And that's not the case.

Yes, thank you so much. This is Rebecca Green, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Whiny Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC. To discover how you can have your own show completely done for you and turn it into a real published book and become the authority in your marketplace, go to www.marketdominationllc.com/podcastoffer.