Episode 242: Mother’s Day Special With My Mother-In-Law (Janeen Morris)

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Winey Flusa Podcast, and I am extra, extra excited today because I have my mother-in-law on for a Mother's Day special that we are bringing to all of you. So please welcome my mother-in-law, Janine Morris. Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, thank you. I am honored to be here.

I'm so excited that she was willing to do this. I was nervous to ask her because I wanted her to be able to say no if she didn't want to. So she is a phenomenal woman who had a phenomenal career that we're going to talk about and is such a good mother and bubby to my kids and to my husband. So I would like to jump in and ask you, did you always want to be a mom?

No. Really, that's the short answer. Um, when I was a child, I didn't play with baby dolls. Um, I had one doll that I played with occasionally that was a slightly older doll, uh, and my friends would say, how can you learn to be a mom if you don't play with dolls? Well, I didn't pay any attention to that. I was more interested in nature and science. It wasn't until I had a possible husband in mind that I started thinking about family.

That is so interesting. And then once you got married, did you want to have children?

Yes, that was the goal, but it took a while for us to become pregnant. And, um, after about a year, we went to a social service agency to talk about adoption, and the woman asked me if I could, or us, if we could love a child that was not our own. And I said, well, I come from a blended family. I have stepbrothers and a sister and a half-sister, and I think we all love each other and we all get along, so I don't think there will be any problem.

I did not know this. I knew I was going to learn something during this interview. So you went to a social service agency, and then what happened?

I got pregnant.

Like, right after?

Not long. Yeah, nothing, nothing materialized. We didn't get to even get to the second step, whatever that was. Wow.

Seth definitely does not know that. Um, for those of you listening who may not know, Seth is my husband and, and he's Janine's son. So, um, what you like best about being a mom?

Watching them grow, just learning and, and growing and doing new things. Um, I loved, you know, informal teaching. Of concepts and ideas and encouraging them to question and asking them questions. I loved reading with them. I must have read books 50 times or more to Dash and just lots and lots of reading because they both loved it. And then when Seth was born, he would sit on my lap and he would listen to Josh's stories and his stories, and that was a special time for all of us. It was really exciting and wonderful to see the world through kids' eyes because the world is so full of wonder when they're young. Everything is new and you get to see it from a fresh perspective. And the other thing that I was thrilled about was seeing them grow into um, moral people, you know, um, good people in a lot of senses. And, uh, my goal was to raise them to be independent and self-sufficient. And, you know, I'm very grateful that happened.

Well, and you're reading my mind because, you know, you know that your sons are very successful very happy. They both have their own families. I mean, you know, you did a great job. So why— how do you think you did that? Enlighten us.

Um, well, let's see. Um, we did a lot of encouraging, a lot of praise, lots of love and laughter. It was, it was, well, I can't take complete credit for this because there are parents that seem to do everything right and their children have big problems and you can just have to be grateful when things work out. Is, you know, some of it is luck. You know, you do everything you can and, you know, encourage their interests and, um, but you can't— there's no guarantee.

Well, it worked out.

Yeah, thank God.

So you definitely did a lot right, and I think a lot of it is the kid, and I think a lot of it is the parents. I really do. So what do you think was most challenging about motherhood, and tell us how you dealt with that?

Well, when they were young, they keep entering new stages very quickly. You know, yeah, 2 months or 3 months, and that's as long as that stage lasts. So by the time I finally get my hand— my mind around it and figure out what's going on and how to handle it, they're into the next stage.

Yeah.

So it was very challenging trying to keep up with them, and, um, sometimes you're lucky and you're a step ahead of them. But, um, yeah, I think that there were much more serious things that happened. They— both of the boys were very bright, and trying to find teachers and classes and schools that would be challenging and interesting for them and not boring, because they tune out when they're bored. That was really, really hard to do. I thought that was going to be the hardest decision we ever had to make if we had to switch schools because they needed something more. But later, um, one of the kids became very ill, uh, and he was in and out of the hospital for about 10 weeks. And then medical decisions became the most important thing in our lives, trying to get him the care he needed. There was only one group of doctors in the area that treated his illness. They were at Children's Hospital, and they were always very, very nice, but the doctor in charge, um, did not seem to be keeping up with the latest things. Um, so it was really challenging. I was working full-time, and actually usually I worked more than full-time because I was working before and after school too. Then I would go to the hospital for 3 or 4 hours, and then I'd go home. It was just so upsetting and so exhausting. I did a lot of research at the University of Buffalo Medical School Library, trying to find out about the illness, trying to figure out how it worked and what was happening and how it was being treated and what were the newest things that were around the bend. So, um, and then I passed those along to the doctor and he was receptive and he changed some of the things he was doing. At one point, um, Seth was having a a concerning side effect from a medicine. He had been on it for a year, and, um, the doctor finally took him off of it because of this side effect. But he would have let him keep going and could have ended up with cataracts at a very young age. Oh boy, he was having some problems with his vision. Um, so that was really the the most challenging time.

I mean, that is a really challenging time, and I can't believe you were working through that. I don't think I knew that you had to go to work through that.

Yeah, um, one of the other teachers who had a son who was very ill suggested I take off some time each week. Yeah, I just could not keep up. No, with this, just like the laundry, you know, just just to go to the pharmacy, pick up medicine, anything. And so I did that. I took off a half a day every week, and it really helped because I was just so overwhelmed. And my husband was working nights, so he would come over to the hospital for about an hour. Um, so I guess I forgot to mention, in terms of challenges that I was working nights— days, I'm so sorry. And Al was working nights. And so I felt like I was the parent during the week. Oh gosh. It was a lot. And he was going to law school during the day.

Oh my God. Oh my God. So how on earth did you get through that?

How did you do that? Um, Seth's health improved.

Okay, so that's how you did it. Things got better.

Yeah, when Seth was sick, it was like the day he had to go to the hospital, a light flashed and he was so— he matured overnight from being this, you know, temperamental, you know, very emotional kid. All of a sudden he was calm. Cool. It's like he was trying to calm us down. And that lasted for a year and a half until he started feeling really better, improving. And then he reverted to being a teenager.

Well, that's good, kind of. Oh my God. Um, what do you think that you learned from all of those years of motherhood before they moved out?

I was trying to ground them in having a sense of values and ethics, passing along our religious beliefs, And trying to remember that I can't control everything, trying to remember that I need to be patient. Yeah, still working on both of those.

I know, me too, me too. I joke that God decided that I needed more patience, so I was given Lily. I thought I was patient before I had Lily, but nope, I was not.

Well, did you ever point out to your husband that she might have something in common with him when he was a kid?

Well, we laugh about it because he tells me how much— he tells me how much Lily is like me, and I'm like, hmm, I don't know about that in some ways. In some ways, but she's, she's got parts of both of us.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So let's go back to the beginning and maybe I, maybe I can learn something here. If you could go all the way back to the beginning of parenting, is there anything you would do differently?

Um, I would've been a better parent if I could have been more calm and relaxed. And last thing happened, from the time I was a child, um, I had problems with anxiety. And then when I was a teenager and throughout my early— my adult life, I was very, very anxious and was having panic attacks.

Oh my goodness.

But I knew somehow, I just knew that if I gave in to the panic attacks and didn't do the things I was afraid of, most of which were social and doing things with other people, um, that I would end up a hermit. I would never leave the house.

Yeah.

So it took a huge amount of determination and, um, being a very good actress, um, to get through that time when I just could— had so much trouble functioning. It wasn't until I was in my early 40s that I finally found a doctor who knew what was going on and could treat it. In the past, they, they treated the symptoms. They didn't treat the underlying problems. I wish I had seen a psychiatrist sooner so that I could have gotten the right medicine because it was— I, I felt like a new person.

Um, I, I didn't know any of this. I mean, I knew a tiny bit, tiny bit, but I didn't know how— I didn't know you were having panic attacks.

Oh yeah, yeah. Um, so, um, let me see. That's basically it. What would I do differently? If I had been able to, I would have been a better parent, you know, because I wouldn't be so jumpy and I wouldn't have such a quick reaction time when I should have just waited and things would have happened.

What about now? Do you feel like it's under control now?

Much, much better. I was on medication for most— for the rest of my life, from the time in the '40s until I hit 70. And the person who was prescribing the medicine said, You can't be on it anymore because it's bad for people who are older. It's not a good idea. And it's too sedating, and then combined with other medicines, it's going to be a problem. And so we weaned me off, which was hard to do, very gradually to go down, decrease the dosage. So I haven't been on anything since then. There are days when I wish I could find one of those little magic pills. But I mean, I wasn't addicted. I mean, I never took more than I was supposed to, but your body gets acclimated to it. And so now I have a meditation app that I use, and I'm doing a whole lot better. I don't— I'm doing vastly better.

So it's amazing.

I can get along without it.

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm so happy to hear that. So I know the answer to this. This was a question from your son. What do you think your greatest quality is as a mother?

That's a tough one. Determination and persistence. And that I hope that I gave my kids a certainty that they were loved and appreciated and had, I don't know what was, unconditional love. And I'm trying to be flexible. And my— I read Dr. Spock over and over again. Not Dr. Spock. What was it? The child care book over and over and over again. That was about the only thing available. So I don't know. I think you have to ask Zach. What does he think?

I love your answer. I think that he is so determined and persistent, and it's so part of his success. But I don't think that's what he would say. And I think if he was here and I asked him, he would say that your warmth is what he appreciates the most. And I don't want to speak for him. I'll ask him and I'll let you know what he says.

Okay. All right.

But he definitely has your heart. And I think that that is what he would say.

Okay, well, we'll find out. Uh-huh.

I wonder what Josh would say. I should ask him too.

Right, right.

Um, I'm a social worker. I like asking family questions. Do you remember? I know. I remember when I met you guys and I found out how huge your family is, and I was like, there is no way that I can keep everyone straight. We need to write this down. Down and we need to talk about who everybody is.

It's overwhelming.

I, I was like, Seth would mention this person and that person and I was like, whoa, you have such a big family. Oh, it's a wonderful thing. What do you like best about being a Bubby?

It's a whole lot more relaxed than being a mother. Oh my goodness, yes, there's so much better. This is— I love phone calls. I love FaceTime. I love reading with the kids on, on, um, via the computer, um, show and tell, um, I love watching their games and performances that showcase whatever it is they're learning about now, whatever they like, um, It doesn't matter what activities they're doing as long as they're meeting other kids and learning new skills that will help them in life. Even if they never pursue it, you know, in a— as a job, whatever it is. I mean, I don't know that Max is going to be a professional football player.

No, no.

But I think he's, um, he's learning a whole lot besides, um, just how to block.

Yes.

Um, so, um, it's just, uh, you know, I can— I give them back, you know.

Is that a good thing? You get to love them and then you get to give them back?

Yeah. Yes.

It's easier.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's just such a pleasure.

Do you think you're different with your grandkids than you were with your kids?

Um, I'm sure that's true. I mean, my basic values haven't changed, but, um, I'm just more easygoing than I was then. I think that's true of almost everybody who has grandchildren.

Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. I told Lily the other day, oh, I never would have gotten away with that. I don't know how you get away with that. I think you have 8 grandkids. Did I do the math right?

Yeah, so sort of 8 and a half. Um, Bryce is— nobody's on the way, don't get me wrong.

Oh, I was like, is she announcing something?

Um, you know, Austin has been remarried, they have one child. Yes. And he does not really have any grandparents.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah, or I'm not sure if Some of them are alive, but they're so incapacitated they aren't really part of their lives.

Okay.

Um, so he's our honorary grandson.

Oh, absolutely, and he's such a sweetie pie.

Yeah.

Oh, that's sweet. So you really have 9? Yeah. Yeah, I, I thought you were making an announcement.

No, no, no, no, 8 and a half is not a good way of putting it, but You might be, you might be done at 9.

We'll have to see if any more pop up.

That's an ongoing discussion between Joe and me. Yeah, whether we can get rid of the baby stuff in the garage.

Oh my gosh, well, I got rid of all of my stuff and then my brother had a baby. You remember that?

Certainly do.

Ah, so, so you are happily married?

Yes.

And I was wondering what you think the keys are to a happy marriage.

Um, well, I look at marriage as a sacred bond, and hopefully I can live up to the vows that we took. Um, I think communication is major. Honesty is, um, absolutely vital.

Yes.

Faithful to your vows is right up there, and your commitment to the marriage, so that if you need some help along the way, um, whatever that may be, you see if you can get it. Yeah. And trying to make your interactions more positive than negative. It's easy to complain.

Yeah.

Sometimes you have to remind yourself to say something nice.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Oh my goodness, that is, that was a really good one.

Probably missed something, but Good.

So yeah, no, I think those are keys to a happy marriage. You know, we had a fence guy come out to quote us getting a new fence, and Seth knew I made the appointment, was aware of what was going on, and I got the quote and he said, okay, sometime in the future. And I was like, why did we have him come out if we aren't getting a new fence? Like, he—

we—

it was like total lack of communication. I, I wanted one thing, he wanted another thing. There was no communication.

Yeah. And you have to clarify a lot of times.

Oh, absolutely. And I think that we think each other knows something that we don't a lot of the times, or we forget, right? We forget to say something, right?

It's in our head.

Yes.

But it didn't come out, and so he doesn't know about it.

Yeah. Oh, it's so true. Um, well, you were a librarian for how long?

Pardon me?

You were a librarian for how long? How long were you a librarian, do you think? Oh, how many years?

28 years. 28 years.

Um, what inspired you to become a librarian?

Well, libraries were one of my very favorite places in life. I cheated to get my first library card. I was an early reader, and my mother sent me to the library by myself to go apply for a library card. Now, the problem was I couldn't spell my last name, so I had a little piece of paper that I had my last name in my hand. And when the librarian told me to go over to this table and you have to write your name on this card, I had my cheat sheet.

Oh my God, that is so funny.

Yeah, so, um, I love to read and I love to learn and So being a librarian lets me— let me combine both reading and learning. And I'm sure that raising my kids was a good preparation for being a school librarian because I was always in a teaching mode with my kids. I didn't think of it that way, but for example, Josh would get temperamental about math, arithmetic. Um, if he didn't understand a new arithmetic concept, he would throw a tantrum. And I would stand there and I would try one approach to teach it, and then I would— that didn't work, he'd keep crying. Then I'd try a different approach. And so I was doing all these different methods about teaching the same concept. Which is what I learned to do later on, you know, for teaching in school. So I— now I forgot what I'm answering. What am I—

what is— no, what inspired you to become a librarian? Oh, oh, oh, oh.

And so I had thought about it before the kids were born even, but the only school around was I think in Geneseo at that point. UB hadn't even started a program, and it was just too far away. There was, we were living in Allegheny County at that point. So I had a meeting with a dean at the library school, and I said, I already have one useless degree. I was, I got a degree in literature. Which ended up getting jobs as a typist, which is not what I thought was going to happen. And, um, I wanted a degree where I'm going to actually have a job at the end.

Yeah.

And he said, well, the only area of library practice that's hiring right now really is school libraries. So if you want to find a job, that's the place to go. To apply. So I took the library courses that you had to take to be a school library media specialist. And I loved helping kids and teachers find the books they wanted and any media materials they needed. I felt like I was giving them presents. Mm-hmm. Um, I really hated reading book reviews so I could choose the best books for the library, but I really, really, really wanted to improve the collection because it was horrible when I started. I mean, we had books that didn't show that we had gone to the moon yet, and it was, you know, in the '80s already, so it seemed like we needed to replace a whole lot of stuff. But the thing I liked best was opening the boxes of books when they came. Children's books, many of them are absolute works of art. They're gorgeous. And it was just a joy to have— see all those brand new books every time they came in. And, uh, I did a lot of extra fundraising. My principal kind of looked the other way. So we raised lots of money every year to improve the collection and hire authors or illustrators to come to the school, and they would do programs for the school. It was very exciting. I loved doing that.

It sounds like an amazing job.

It was. It was. I went back to grad school once the kids were both in school and at UB because by then they had a program. So, and I really, really like seeing the children become independent users of the library.

Absolutely. Well, and you know that you've instilled such a love of reading in your children.

I know, I really worked at that.

It was probably not easy, right?

No, it was— most of the time it was a joy. I mean, they really paid attention, and I would ask them little questions about what we were reading. We discuss it as we went, and they really paid attention.

So, um, so now people say to Seth 'How did you learn that?' And he's like, 'I read a book.' And someone will say, 'Wow, that's amazing! How did you do that?' 'I read about it.' Yeah, well, that's, that's what Josh said years ago.

He was applying for a job, some computer-related thing, and it was something he had never done before. And I said, 'Well, you don't know how to do that.' I said, 'What are you going to do?' He said, 'I'll get a book.' To me, the books were for a foreign language. I had no idea what the book's about, the computer instructions and stuff.

Right. Yep.

Like, he could read it. It was to him, he understood it.

That's amazing. Well, yeah, they, they definitely are using a different side of their brain than I am. Um, Max has that side of his brain, that, that math and— well, Yeah, you know, when Max was 3 and I sent him to school and he knew all his letters and numbers and colors and he knew all of that, and I said, well, that's okay, next year will be harder. And I said to him in the car, and I caught myself, um, he's like, I'm just so bored. And I said, well, honey, next year will be harder. I'm like Gosh, I've been telling him that since he was 3 and he's 16. He's 16.

Well, he's too smart.

So I'm hoping, I'm sincerely hoping that next year is better with all of his advanced and AP classes, and I think no regular classes. Maybe next year will be the year where he'll really be challenged. And I don't even like, I don't expect him to be like super challenge. I just don't want him to be bored.

Yeah, you, you—

I know you understand. He talks to Seth, and Seth, you know, empathizes with him and says, yeah, I was there, buddy, I remember.

Yeah, I was too. I mean, when I was in elementary school, I was bored. Yeah, and I remember that. Well, I was kind of sickly when I was a kid. Um, oh yeah, my teachers told everybody in front of me, you know, and you missed 40 days of school this year. I was still getting all A's. It wasn't like I was not— I was falling behind. But what I used to— I would go stay with my grandmother who was in the apartment next door when I was sick. And toward the end of an illness, you know, that last day when you probably should be going to school, I would fake it. Oh, I still feel the sore throat, so I just stay home another day and watch I Love Lucy or whatever daytime TV.

That's okay, that's all right. You graduated with a, what, with a master's degree? I think you did okay. So, um, so you are retired. And I know nothing about what retirement looks like, so I would love to know what you like best about it and what's most challenging about it.

Well, there's a lot less rushing. There's not time pressure when you're working and you're— not only are you working, but you know, you have to stay on top of your game and you have people keeping an eye on what you're doing and you're being evaluated. Yeah, this is like, this is freedom. This is relaxed, as relaxed as I will ever get.

Um, awesome.

You can take a nap, you can sleep late if you want. Um, some days it's— there are a lot of days that feel like it's the weekend, and we're very confused sometimes.

That sounds Wonderful.

So, um, the challenging part of it— well, um, Joe and I are together 24/7. Now, during COVID I— the togetherness was a major plus because I think I, I don't function well. I don't think— I don't really know what Spending all that time alone, you know, so isolated, I think I would have lost my mind.

Yeah.

But then on the other hand, you know, he'd get on my nerves because he was there.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot of togetherness.

A lot of togetherness. Yes. So, um, we're doing better now because we don't have so many limitations.

Well, now you can take breaks from each other and leave the house. Yeah, yeah, it's, it seems lovely to me. What do you think? What did you say?

I said it will be when you get there.

I don't know if Seth will ever retire. I don't know. I, he tells me he'll do less, he'll do less.

I don't know. I'm, you know, it's like college professors, they seem to hang on forever. And people who own their own businesses, you know, it's up to them.

Yeah, well, and you can just decrease, you can decrease your hours. Yeah, I mean, working full-time is not ideal when you're, you know, Yeah, maybe he can delegate some stuff. Yeah, well, we'll see where life takes him. My parents joke with me that they're never going to retire.

Doesn't look like it.

Oh, do you know, I think all of my parents, my friends' parents are retired. It's, it's, yeah, whatever works for everyone, right?

Right.

What do you think the best advice is that you've ever gotten?

Well, I found— I thought about 3 different things.

Okay, awesome.

A friend of mine, uh, told me— this is not terribly profound, but it's— she's right. She said, don't sweat the small stuff. And when you are a person who's anxious, and I am an excellent worrier, You know, I need to remember that I shouldn't sweat the small stuff.

It's a good reminder.

That's one thing. Then some other advice is don't fret over things you can't control. Although I think I'm still very good at that, you know, at getting on the dither about things like that. And the other one was I talked to the cantor at my temple. She's the person in charge of music.

Yeah.

When Joe and I were first going out, and I said to her, I don't know what to do. My lease is up, or will be shortly, on my apartment. And Joe wants me to move in with him. I don't know what to do. It hasn't been all that long that we've been dating, but we've really, really hit it off. And she said, why are you even thinking about this? She said, you are so happy with him, you should move in with him. I don't know whether that's what God would have said, but that was what she said, and I thought that that was very good advice. And I followed her advice and moved in with Joe.

That was very good advice. It worked out. It definitely worked out. Oh my goodness. Well, there are a lot of moms who are going to listen to this who are in the thick of parenting. So You had many, many successful years of parenting. So any last words of advice for them to decrease their stress? If there's anything you can think of.

Well, try to remember that whatever it is is going on is probably temporary. Oh, that, um, what you're worrying about right now may seem monumental, but try to put it in perspective if you can. That, you know, in the whole period of time that your kid's gonna live with you, how important is it? Um, I think that's pretty important. The kids are only— hopefully your kids are going to be, you know, leaving home, um, uh, or maybe they're going to get their first job or go, you know, join the military or go to college, whatever it is. And they're going to have all kinds of influences that, um, are beyond you. All you can do is try to make a book toward a kid who can cope on their own without, you know, mom and dad hovering over them all the time.

Yeah, well, I like that you said that you wanted to raise independent kids. Yeah, you did a good job.

Well, thank you. Just, um, I don't, you know, I never really wanted to go back to a period in time when the kids were little, but I thought that the easiest stages were those like pre-puberty ages, like 7 to 10 or 11, when they still think you're wonderful and you know everything. It does, but unfortunately that part doesn't last either. So, but it was nice while it did.

Oh my gosh, that's funny. I know. Now, now the college brochures are flooding my house every single day.

Oh my goodness, a lot of recycling.

No, you know your son, he's making a binder. He's gonna make a spreadsheet with math.

Oh great.

Oh my gosh. Um, anything else that you want to share that I didn't ask you? Because I asked you a lot of questions.

Yes, which ones were Seth's questions?

Um, what was his questions? He asked, what do you think your greatest quality is as a mother? Um, what else did he say? Um, I'll look them over and text you. He, he definitely put a couple in that I didn't do.

Okay, well, it was, um, a joy to raise them, and, uh, I'm just very, very grateful that they seem to be you know, having productive and healthy, happy lives.

For sure. Somebody said that they were going to take advice. They were going to look at how the mother's kids turned out, and if they liked how the mother's kids turned out, then they would take advice from that mother. And I kind of liked that. That was actually really good advice. Yeah, but, um, you're thinking about that one.

Well, we've had the experience where an adult child made some really horrible decisions and, um, it's taking a long time to crawl out of that hole. And, um, it's— but I would say that, um, her father still would be able to give very good advice.

Oh, that's true. That is an excellent point. I think that, you know, one of my favorite, um, marital teachers was divorced 3 times.

Oh, I did. What's a marital teacher?

Um, she taught me about marriage. Um, and you know, in, um, was it a class or a training? It was either a class or a training. One of my, you know, because I took marital classes and I took marital trainings.

Oh, and preparation for marriage?

No, I didn't do— no, I didn't do any of that. But I could have. Um, yeah, she was one of my favorite teachers. She taught me a lot about marriage, and I would laugh with Seth that she was divorced 3 times. So I guess you don't have to have— you know, you can still give advice is what I'm saying.

That's worthwhile, hopefully.

Exactly, exactly. Well, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you being willing to do this and for your time and your expertise.

Well, you're more than welcome, and thank you to you and Seth for producing 3 incredible grandchildren. Ah, very lucky.

Well, they're lucky to have all of their grandparents in town. I tell them that all the time. I would have loved that as a kid.

Yes.

And I also want to thank you, and I will keep thanking you for the wonderful man that you raised, because I'm forever grateful.

That is humbling. So nice to hear.

So this is Rebecca Green reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC. To discover how you can have your own show completely done for you and turn it into a real published book and become the authority in your marketplace, go to www.marketdominationllc.com/podcastoffer.