Episode 244: Parenting ADHD with Wisdom and Grace

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast, and I am so excited today because I have Dr. Tish Taylor with me today. Uh, Dr. Tish, thank you so much for doing this with me today.

Of course, happy to be here.

Um, I'm going to tell you a little bit about her because she's a fantastic, um, very wise lady. She is a licensed psychologist with a private practice in the greater, greater Kansas City area. She has an established practice helping children with ADHD and their families. She is also a licensed school psychologist and has years of experience working within school districts as a psychologist and coordinator of mental health services. In addition, Dr. Taylor is an adjunct professor teaching child development for many years. She has previously co-edited a book entitled Taking Sides: Controversial— it's like a tongue twister— Controversial Issues in Classroom Management. Dr. Tish Taylor is author of Parenting ADHD with Wisdom and Grace and most recently Fostering Connection: Building Social and Emotional Health in Children and Teens. Well, that is quite quite the resume, Dr. Tish.

Thank you.

Um, I told her I'm so excited to pick her brain because she knows so much that is going to help all of us. So I'm going to jump into the list of way too many questions I have for her.

Okay.

And I am going to start with, I would love to know what inspired you to become a psychologist.

Oh boy, so I think I have to go back. Um, I can remember in middle school, probably upper elementary, middle school, I can remember just being so curious about how the brain worked. Like, I had to do a research project in middle school and I chose the brain. Like, you know, that's a big topic, but—

That's awesome.

I've always been just curious about why do people do what they do. And, you know, naturally that speaks to psychology. So that's where I ended up.

Well, that's an awesome path. Um, I found that as the teachers were teaching us, I was, my brain was wandering to the social behavior going on with the, with the kids in the classroom and the dynamics. So I totally understand. We all have our calling. Um, so how did you end up focusing on helping children with ADHD and their families? Like, how did you go that route?

Oh, well, I, I do work with a lot of children. Uh, but that is part of my, that's part of a niche I would say. You know, I don't know. I think I've just seen so many children and their families, and I just seem to understand it and get it. And, you know, liked helping them, tried my best to help them. I continue to do that, of course. Um, and then, you know, part of what I do are evaluations, clinical evaluations. So it just seemed natural. I mean, it just— well, I have to tell you, because a fair amount of it is is neurodevelopmental and cognitive in terms of development, and it just has fit right in with my interests.

Well, and it seems so prevalent right now. Seems like a prevalent issue in the schools.

It is.

Yeah. I mean, what kind of challenges are you having working with the school with the ADHD issues? Are you having challenges?

Well, so I don't know, we So I used to work in schools, right? So that was in my introduction. And, you know, I just tried my very best to collaborate with schools.

Yeah.

I mean, I, you know, I love teachers and educators. I, you know, I used to work in schools, and so I just, I don't find it challenging to work with them. I think resources are always a challenge. You know what any set of hands can do with 20-some students is always a challenge. And yeah, so that's what's probably the biggest challenge.

Yeah. And I mean, I find even in my kids' school, they're trying to keep teachers. So talk about resources, right?

Right. That's right. That's also an issue.

I know, I know.

And the class—

oh my God, 27 kids in a classroom. You're right. And some of them with issues. I, I give teachers so much credit. I really do.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, we are good teachers.

Yeah, we do. We really do. I mean, if you could talk to teachers and administrators right now, what advice would you have to help the kids in the classroom who are struggling?

Uh, with ADHD?

Yeah.

Well, I would say if, you know, it's kind of like work smarter, not harder.

I like that.

And so if you can think of— and for me, here's what I'm like, right? It's like to get my creative juices flowing or to think how I'm going to do something differently, I need the mental space to do that. So since summer is upon us, very coming very quickly, if you could just take a little bit of time and think, how can I just tweak my organization?

Yeah.

So if I, for example, if you're an elementary school teacher or middle school teacher, for sure, if you can think, you know, at the beginning of the day, how can I help my classroom, and especially those with ADHD or executive functioning issues, organize themselves, think about what they have for today, if there's something they need to turn in for today. Um, and at the end of the day, how am I doing the same thing? Am I helping them, you know, provide that structure and that coaching and that priming? I think that one step would be a help. I really do.

That's huge. Yeah.

The second piece would be, is there an easy way that I can communicate with parents? Because what I see from the parent side is, I'm not sure what they're supposed to do, even though I can go on Canvas or whatever online system the school has. I'm still a little unclear. I am still unclear about what they're supposed to do. So if there's any quick way, especially me, there might be a few, you know, a few students to have a little more regular communication with parents, that would help.

Yeah, well, and you're bringing up parents, which I would love to shift to. Um, you know, the teachers are trying— the teachers and the staff are trying to have success in the school. The parents are trying to have success in the home. Right. So I mean, I guess what advice do you have for parents to not only how to advocate for their kids in the classroom, but also what to do at home with their kids to be successful?

So I think to advocate for their child in the classroom and maybe even in the school is as best as you can develop a good relationship with the teacher or teachers or staff, um, and in a genuine way. Right? Because the more you can work together, together, the better. Yeah. And you know, we all have different personalities.

Uh-huh.

But I think the more you can develop that relationship, and if you could establish some form of, you know, I don't know how periodic it needs to be. Depends on the needs of the student, but consistent communication. Right. And a lot of times I think people lean on email, but sometimes we miss information on email, or we can misinterpret things in an email.

For sure.

But, or maybe you're dropping off or picking up one day a week, and maybe that's a great time just to have a 5-minute conversation with the teacher. But just kind of establish how will you do that through the year.

Well, and I have heard parents really frustrated. Yeah, with, you know, it's like, I think sometimes they don't know how to help in the school. They don't know how to— they will tell me they don't know how to get through to teachers.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, I think what you're saying is just keep the communication going.

Yes, and you might have a teacher that's really good at email and follows through, and it might be a teacher who You know, if you're there when there's dismissal, you know, you can bend their ear for 5 minutes or 10 minutes maybe. It just depends what we're— and you might ask them, what is the easiest way for you?

That is excellent advice. I mean, I think that we forget, we get so focused on our own child. I mean, the teacher has 27 kids. I mean, I have 3. But the teacher has 27, so the teacher isn't all about my kid. So we have to remember that, right?

Yeah, we do. And then, you know, they probably have their own families, so—

Oh, absolutely. They have more waiting for them at home for sure. Oh my gosh. So they struggle at home too. I have heard the struggle from many parents. They're struggling at home, how to get their kids to be successful at home. To stop the challenging behaviors at home. Can we talk about success in the home?

Yes. So do you want me to— yeah, so there's different, you know, so we say ADHD, but not every child looks the same.

Yes, yes, true.

So, so, you know, see, we see a little with the hyperactive impulsive type, we see a little bit more of some of the oppositional behaviors too. Obvious, you know, or impulsive behaviors. Um, with inattentive types, we see a lot of, I'm not getting tasks done, I can't get out of the door on time. And in some kiddos we see all of it. Um, but do you want me to just kind of talk about that in general?

I mean, if you don't mind touching on the different types that you see and maybe a little advice for each type, that would be fabulous.

Okay. Okay. Well, so there are at this point, you know, clinically and diagnostically, two types.

Okay.

The inattentive type, which is essentially around I'm easily distractible, sustained attention is hard, especially if it's not my preferred topic, um, or activity. Um, you know, task completion, really many things around task management and time management.

Mm-hmm.

Often hyperactive impulsive type, it kind of speaks for itself.

Right?

I have more energy than is needed for the situation, more energy than most of my same-age peers, and I tend to be impulsive. And like I said, with that, in a lot of cases, we do— not all cases, but we do see some of those oppositional behaviors, right? I react if I'm, you know, given a lot of directions or instructions. I tend to buck buck some of that. I can be pretty argumentative. I might be more temperamental. So, and then, you know, like I said, in some kiddos we see all of it.

Yeah, bless those parents and those kids and the kids. Yeah. So I have seen parents struggling with the opposition. I have seen parents struggling with how do I get them to get this done?

Right.

I mean, what can, what can they do differently? Cuz I know they wanna be successful with their kids.

Of course. So the first thing I would say is that old saying, you know, put your oxygen mask on first.

Yes, absolutely.

So you have to take the time and space to think about, do I need to tweak some things around how our daily routine is run? How we're managing the household. And I, I think we are so busy and there are so many distractions, especially with all the technology and screens. There's distractions all the time, I think. Um, and there's so many things we get to because everything for most things for kids are organized and there's this practice and that practice or this meeting or that. And, and it's all like, it's a tax on everyone, honestly. Now it's good stuff, but it's like when you think about the totality of all of it and you think about your family and the structure of how things are running, mm-hmm. Just take a step back and think about that because what, what really important basic things is, is just that general regulation because ADHD is a disorder of regulation. So we need sleep, we need a pretty consistent diet, we need consistent exercise, getting outside is huge. All of those things help us stay regulated. And we also need time with each other, right? That connection, that family connection, the social connection. And I say this that I know it's even a struggle in my home because of all the demands. So You know, how can we keep those basic things as regulated and consistent as we can and keep in tune with our kids and each other? That's really important.

Yeah. I really have noticed my daughter does not have ADHD, but I have noticed that when she eats, I focus on she has to eat 3 meals a day, which she wasn't always doing, and she has to drink a lot of water. And I see that when I focus on those two things, her behavior is so much different.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you, you, and you know your kids, right?

Yeah. Oh yes.

A lot of kiddos with ADHD have some sleep dysregulation.

Hmm.

So I'm guessing for a lot of listeners, that's like, oh man, we are, we're always working on sleep, but keep working on sleep. Yeah.

You know, Well, and even, even like as you're talking about sleep and screens, um, you know, my 14-year-old is smart enough to see that when she's on her screen right before bed, she doesn't sleep as well. So she noticed that, that wasn't even me telling her. She noticed she had to put her phone away so that she could start to sleep better. So the screens right before bed is not going to help them sleep.

Correct.

Right. Oh boy. So many things as parents that we have to monitor and regulate and, and the schedule is exhausting. I agree. It's exhausting. And they ask me to add something to our schedule and sometimes I have to say, guys, I'm— we're topped off. Like I, I can't add it. Can't add anything else. So you talk about the importance of connection and attachment.

Yes.

In the development of children. So what can parents do to improve their connection and attachment with their children?

I think it's, I think it's intentional time and intentional focus. It's easy to be distracted, but it's like saying, when am I going to really make that time and hold it as important? Yeah. Like not let other things interfere. Like, you know, if there's a work meeting or something, it's like, you know, you hold the time, but we need to also hold the time for our, for our children. And I find it's easy for children to be distracted, right? Because there's so much to capture their attention. And it may be hard if we haven't been in a good habit of that. It may be hard for them to, depending how old the kids are, right? My kids are at the age where they're like, ah, whatever. But if it comes to be expected, right? A simple example would be dinner, right? That's a simple example or something before bed. If it comes to be expected, then they'll come around. You know, and show more interest, or at least they may not act excited, but they'll come to expect it and want to at least have a conversation or talk or do something together. So I just, I really think it's back to those basic things, but we just have to prioritize it.

My family makes fun of me because, you know, I have teenagers. My oldest is 16, and I have something called forced family fun. And I don't give them a choice. I'm like, this is, we're all going out today and this is what we're doing. And they're like, oh, forced family.

It is, it is fun, right?

You know what? They always end up having fun, but they give, they tend to give me a hard time. And, you know, as far as individual time, you know, it's harder with multiple kids. To try to find that individual time. Do you feel like— I want to know if my observation is correct or incorrect. I'm finding that it's not about the quantity of time, that it's about the quality of time, and that I feel like 15 minutes alone with a child can do so much for our relationship, and that I don't have to think that it's like this big grandiose all-day plan. I mean, do you agree with that?

I do agree. I do agree, because you could be together for an hour and it be low quality. Yeah, you don't emotionally, you don't get much from that. So if it is 15 minutes of really quality connection, great.

Okay, I figure I have you here, I might as well check in on my own question. I have, I have a wonderful psychologist with me today. So can you— I love you said that you help families find like a win-win solution. It's a win-win solution for the kids. It's a win solution for the parents. Can you give us an example of a win-win solution for a family?

Okay, so generally speaking, well, one example we were just talking about, right? Can we find time to make some connection? I mean, that it's hard for me not to come back to that. Can we find some, you know, a way to lower something that's stressful? You know, something that feels stressful for all of us in our own way. Can we find a way to lower that stress?

That's really good.

Can we find a way to prioritize things? Right. And maybe let go of some of those more superfluous things that we really may not need. Um, yeah, I— so, so generally speaking, I would say that.

Yeah. What about for you? What are you finding your biggest challenges right now as a professional?

Yeah, as a psychologist, the need, the mental health needs. So I work with children, adolescents, and some college age as well. And it's just the overwhelming need.

Yeah, tons of waiting lists. People keep telling me that they're on a waiting list. I hear that a lot.

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for doing what you do because, you know, we need it. Everybody needs it. I tell everyone that everyone needs, everyone needs therapy. There's not any of us that don't need it. What do you think the best piece of advice that you've ever given or gotten?

Oh boy, that's a really good question. Well, okay, so what I've ever received. So I'm gonna— a wise, wise person who I've known my entire life, I will not name, but said to me one time when I was younger, in my younger years, said, Tish, 'People are just people.' And, and it really resonated. It's always resonated with me, and I think it helped me just formulate just taking each person for who they are, how they present. And I have really learned over the years, when you really understand somebody's entire story, you totally get them then. It all makes sense. So I do my best professionally for sure, and personally I really do my best to withhold judgment about people until I really understand them. And then once you do, then it leads you into, you know, how will I approach it, or what's a better way to interact with this person if there's some challenges there. I find that that's really helped me. It just really kind of set my mindset, I would say.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, my kids are being raised by a social worker, and they come home and they tell me stories about child behaviors at school, and they're always really frustrated, and, and they always get the same response from me. It's surprising that they keep telling me because I'm like, well, what's going on for that child? What happened? What's happening at home? You know, you don't have the full picture.

Yeah. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Oh God, mom. But it's true. It's true. So you have a bunch of books, a bunch of really, you have a few really good books. Can you tell us about your books?

So the Parenting ADHD with Wisdom and Grace. That is, you know, I wrote that to be, it's a fairly quick read and I just highlighted 10 topical points.

Hmm. I like that.

Things that I have collected over the years. And I thought when it comes to parenting ADHD, these are like the 10 things I would say.

And sounds like parents need to go get your book.

And so that's, that's how I wrote that book. And I would say both of the, um, the latest ones I have done, it, it just kind of comes to you. Like, it just, they just kind of came to me and I put it to, it was a longer process to write the book and actually publish the book for sure. But the content just kind of came. So it, that wasn't the hardest part. Um, The Fostering Connection, that's my latest one. What I will say is there's a work accompanying workbook coming out very soon.

Oh, I love that.

It is done. It is edited. The formatter's just about done, and it's about ready to go up. Um, back up. So what that will do— the Fostering Connection book is around, well, if you have a child with ADHD, with any oppositional behaviors, maybe a child on the spectrum, or just in general, um, if there's any challenging behaviors, or you're trying to improve social-emotional connection. That's what's addressed in this book, and the workbook will provide— just if you're a mental health worker, an educator, or even a parent— will provide some of those guiding questions and ways to help the child or teen understand how to use some of the concepts in the book, because I created some of my own concepts trying to make behaviors or behavior patterns as as easily understandable as possible, easily understood as possible. And there's some very specific visuals or pictures I've used, like characters, if you will, to try and really highlight, you know, what we're seeing.

So they can find these books on Amazon?

On Amazon, right?

On Amazon. Perfect. Perfect. Well, I mean, I asked you so many questions. Is there anything else that you want to share that I didn't ask you?

Oh boy. Um, you know, I would say if you're frustrated or overwhelmed, you know, as a parent, if you feel frustrated or overwhelmed, hang on, hang in there. You know, sometimes days or weeks or even, you know, a period of time seems overwhelming and there may be other stressors in your life, but things always get better. It will get better. Hang on. Trust some of your internal resources, what you know. Trust your supports, you know, people you have around you. Um, at the very least, you can always seek information. You know, there's so much information out there. Um, but that's what I would say, you know, because your kids, your family, they're worth it, of course. So just hang in there.

That's good advice for all of us, for sure. Some days are better than other days, right?

That is so true.

Oh my gosh, this morning for this musical, getting my daughters ready, I'm just, I'm still exhausted from it. So today wasn't the easiest morning. But where can everyone go find you?

So if you go to tishtaylor.com, okay, really everything is on my website, um, and even links to the book are on the website under publications. But you know, if you wanted, I have other information on there too. So if you wanted to search out what else is on there, you could do that. So hopefully that would be helpful.

Well, I appreciate your time and your expertise because I know how valuable it is.

Oh, well, thank you.

This is Rebecca Greene reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

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