Episode 402: Using Bempathy to Improve our Relationships.

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast, and I am very super excited to talk to the fabulous Jill Robin Payne today. Jill, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Rebecca, you made me smile because whenever someone gives someone a compliment, it hits the same region of the brain as if you gave me a $100 bill or some chocolate. So I'm feeling so good right now. Thank you.

I'm so excited. I told her this is going to be such a fun conversation. I can tell already. And when I I heard the word bempathy, I was like, sign me up. When can I talk to her? So let me tell you about Jill. She's fantastic. She is a seasoned mental health professional with over 40 years of experience. I don't know how she's old enough to have 40 years. She's known for her innovative communication method, bempathy, combining playful banter with empathy. Bempathy aims to foster deeper understanding and healthier relationships in both personal and professional settings. It's kind of a tongue twister. Jill holds a master's degree in clinical psychology from Houston Christian University and is a member of the American Counseling Association. She has developed a concept that blends her diverse expertise in psychology, recreational therapy, and holistic practices. And I mean, I can't tell you how excited I am. I heard this word and I was like, okay, you have to tell us what what inspired this and how it's different from traditional empathy.

Well, what inspired it was technology, the fast digital technology, because technology is the wheel. So it's the digital technology. And what's been happening is it is so addictive, and they've made it so where your dopamine goes up. Even me, I hear a ping and I get all excited. I want to go look at my phone. I, who, even if you were the sexiest man alive, I still would probably go look at my phone. That's how addictive it is.

Oh, she's out.

Yeah. So I saw this with my clients. I saw this with me. And then I decided we need something more than empathy because empathy was going on the decline then. And I said, we need to banter. So just because you have empathy, and by the way, empathy is going on the rise now. Sarah Korneth studies it. So empathy is not really— it's empathy with banter is what we need. And I'm going to explain because—

I'm excited.

Okay. We just had an election, didn't we? Right?

We did. We did.

And I had people that were so upset, Rebecca, that they were curled up in a fetal position. Not my clients, just friends of friends curled up in a fetal position, unable to go to work. And then of course there were some people that were, ah, okay, black and white thinking, which is what's going on in today's age. So, yes, if you're empathetic, it can create a groupthink. So I can be empathetic with the Democrats or the Republicans. So I'm in the in-group and then the out-group is whatever I'm not in. And so I can empathize with my group and hate, dislike, or think they're stupid, the other group. Which is not true because everything is perception and it's just people think differently. It doesn't mean they're stupid. Right. Right. So what BEMpathy does is it combines banter with it. Because what is banter? It's chitchat. Isn't that missing? We're having deep conversations or we're having these type of conversations. My clients will say I'm talking, right? And so what we need to do is have some light chitchat. Okay. What did we do before we got on? I mean, I did talk about me and then we talked about you. I'm not going to say, you know, just personal things.

Yes. Yes.

It was light. It was just about a daughter, a mom, my work, my profession. We could talk about vacations. Then you start connecting on— you can call it a lighter level, not superficial, a lighter level. And then when you start connecting, then you can start empathizing, and then that builds compassion. So there you go. So that's really empathy. And so you really want to do the chitchat, and really face-to-face is the best. If you're going to do it online, that's great. Just think about it.

Yes.

If I don't, if I don't use it, I lose it. So my muscles here.

Oh yes.

Exactly.

So true.

Same with here. So if we don't talk more, we just need a balance. We need, right? So if I'm gaming 8 hours a day, I'm gonna need to converse a little bit too, right? Yeah.

Well, and all of us moms have bonded over that and we love, we love that our sons in particular, my daughters don't game, but my son is online talking to his friends and I'm like, you know, I love that I hear him talking to people and I said to him, this is fine, but you have to make plans. Like, you have to literally— like, the plans can't be a gaming date. You have to get out of the house and see people.

Right. Have you noticed— and it's true, it's scary though, so we need to make it a safe environment for them. I talk to my clients because I deal with kids from 14 to 105, because we're still kids at 105.

We are.

Right. So what's happening a lot with these children and teenagers and even young adults is they are looking at a screen. I'm going to take my screen. Matter of fact, I've hid this, by the way. When you talk, Rebecca, put your phone away, because if you have your phone out, it makes us not intelligent. Okay? So if you want to be smarter, put your phone away. If you want to pay attention to the person that you're with, put your phone away. Because they've done studies where if even if it's off and and down like that, that you are paying attention more to that. Isn't that interesting? The phone.

I mean, it's, it's so interesting. And, and I don't want to take you down the rabbit hole of phones, but I find if I get together with a friend, yes, I have my phone out because my 3 children are in 3 different places. And I feel, and maybe I need to say to my husband, I need a couple hours without my phone. So can you watch your phone?

Okay, well, you could do two things. You could do two things, or actually three things. If we're open and honest with the person that we're with and said just what you said and say, I'm going to have this in my purse so I don't see it, and it will be on, so it will ring. And when it rings, I will look at it to see if it's important.

That's a good point.

Okay. Right. And so I would do something like that. Or do the other where you tell your hubby, hey, and give him a job. Men love to help.

Oh, he does. He does. We just have to be specific. I'm learning. I just have to be very specific.

You do. You have. If I tell my husband to get me some milk, I'm going to get whatever. So I need to tell him Borden's, a quart, and get it at H-E-B.

Exactly. And then you'll still get a phone call from—

Exactly.

So I wanna talk about how empathy is gonna improve our different relationships. Yes. So can we start with our family? And, and there's a ton of moms. It tends to be moms who listen. And if you're not a mom, thank you for being here. Yes. But, um, to the moms who are mostly listening, how do we improve our relationship with our children through empathy?

Right. Start young. Don't wait till they're a teenager. If they are a teenager, it's going to be a little bit more difficult. Uh, kids that are younger are more malleable, and that, you know that. So no matter what, have structure and make things fun. I've got in my, in my Meeting People book, I have— make everything needs to be fun. Something in it, even when you do laundry, make it fun. So have structure, make it fun. What we did in back in the day, we had a family night and the family night was in our parents' room. We would watch United Kingdom. You probably don't know what that is. And Walt Disney. Well, United Kingdom was about live animals in the wild. And then we had Walt Disney, which everybody knows, and it was a half an hour and Walt Disney was alive and would come on and talk.

Oh, that's so cool.

That's so cool. Yes, I'm ancient.

You are not. Excuse me.

I'm a classic. I'm a classic, right? I'm vintage.

And I'm going to tell you before you go on.

Yes.

You know this. You do not look your age. When you told me your age, I didn't even believe you. I won't say it. I will not announce it, but I don't believe you.

So you know what? You're as young as you feel. And yes, in my family, we exercise. That's another thing with BEMpathy. BEMpathy, you stand back and you see the big picture, okay? So I have people that will talk to me about they're focusing on archery. Well, archery isn't just archery. You need to be well-rounded. Do you understand what I'm saying? Everything matters in life. And what's happening is we are not using our whole brain. I'm getting back to the parents and people. If I do not use my whole brain, I'm going to lose it. It will atrophy. It is a known fact. Okay, yes. Okay, so when you're with the kids, you want things well-rounded, you want it to be fun. Don't you want things fun?

Yes, always.

So, so how am I gonna know if something's fun for you?

For me in particular, I'm usually smiling or laughing.

Okay, so I'm gonna just look at you. You can either look at the person to know that it's fun. Some people can't do that, and You can ask them. So I would, when I was raising my child, one, I would give him two, uh, two, like, if I wanted him to do something, I would give him two choices. So for instance, if it was bedtime, I'd go, Taylor, it's bedtime, so you either have 5 minutes or you can go to bed right now. That gives you—

that's great, that's great.

And then I, and I remember that's what I taught, so he had a choice.

Yes.

If you force a child, force a person, it's Newton's law in physics. If I force something, I'm going to get resistance or I'm going to push them away. And for teenagers, if we force them, we are pushing them away. We want to bring them out of their room. So we need to make it fun and exciting for them. And that is when you can have a family meeting. And a family meeting is listen to your child, repeat what they say in your own words to make sure you to understand. If they don't talk a lot, do physical things. You can play basketball with them, you can do writing, you can paint pictures, whatever their communication is. But you— no buts about it because we sit on butts. I say B-U-T-T. Okay, if I say you're beautiful and I don't like your glasses, then I've just taken that, that— okay, so butts, right?

Yeah, no butts.

No, right. So I'm hoping I'm helping with, with the children. So you want structure, we want visual. Men aren't only visual, I think we all are. I I love to see things. If you look at any of my books, I even have characters in them, which we can talk about. I have so much. Yes, we can talk about that later. Visuals. People relate with visuals. So draw diagrams, have them draw and do physical things. You'll remember things better.

Okay, so go back to the laundry. How do I make the laundry fun for them?

Oh, for them?

Well, for me, I make laundry fun for myself. I'm not worried about—

So how do you do that?

So I— okay, so laundry is a strange thing for me. First of all, I'm either listening to a book or a podcast, which makes it a lot of fun, and I find it like meditative. It's therapeutic for me. It's one of the things that I enjoy. There are other things that I don't enjoy, but I never have a problem with laundry. I know other people do. I will tell you, my kids probably wouldn't say that it's fun.

So, okay, so it's how you do it. One, you can make a game out of it. They can throw the clothes in the— in your washer machine and throw, make baskets. They can get a— you can do what is called token economy. So that's not— you don't reward them with money. For instance, if they do their clothes for 7 days that week, then they get something fun, ice cream, or they get you to not talk to them for an hour and they can be by themselves.

They love that.

It's whatever. Well, it's whatever their reward will be. And what you can also do if you have kids, you can make it a competition. Believe it or not, competition is a positive. So if— and mommy can even be up there with daddy because I've had this done with my clients where they put on the refrigerator because everybody eats. They put on the refrigerator a week long of activities and chores. And if you do them for 7 days in a row, oh, you get ice cream together or something like that. And then there was one time where a mother didn't do all of hers and the kids would go, okay, Mom, you can't have ice cream. We get it. So do you see what I'm saying?

You're, you're just a fun person. That's part of it. We can take a lot of fun tips from you. I can tell.

Well, you know, I was a single mom. Oh. Yes. And—

Not easy.

And it wasn't. And I made it fun. You can ask my son. We made it fun. I won't tell you the fun things we did because they were sort of off the wall. And he saw his dad every day and his other family because I was a psychotherapist. So I knew that it was beneficial to have that balance. It also gets you to see a different light when you are a parent going to school, working 3 jobs, raising a kid, wanting to go to all their activities. And so when people ask me, how can I do this? You can do it. If you really want to do it, there is a way. Sometimes we need to let go of things. And I have something else in my— keep promoting my book, but in this—

I want you to.

In the BEMpathy Simplified Communication, looking at a third side of the coin, I have something called Map of Reflection. Which helps you map out and reflect the people, places, and things in your life because we are so inundated and it helps us to prioritize. I love it. I think it's as good as Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I really do. I highly promote it for all people. For us, you can do it every day, once a week. Yeah. So these are things that everything I've mentioned helps parents. It helps people at the workplace. Think about it. If you don't get along with your boss, and you need that job or you want that job. You need to learn where the sugar is. You can also learn to see how does your boss talk? Does he talk fast? Does he talk with his hands? Start mirroring how he talks. And that doesn't mean— Yeah, that doesn't mean—

I'm laughing because my husband is a fast talker. Oh, and I want to talk about work and I want to talk about romantic relationships.

Oh, yes.

But I had to stop him at a meeting and be like, oh my gosh, like, I can't even retain everything you're saying because you're talking so fast. Sometimes I have to slow him down. So I don't know that I can mirror it with him. I'm like, honey, slow down.

So, so you can have him mirror you, and, and you, you can do like little signals. You can— men love to be touched. Most of them. So, so you could like touch him like that. Yeah, I love that. In between his talk and then also reflect what he has said back to him. So what I'm understanding, honey, is you're saying blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Oh, yes. And then he even knows that you're interested. So I love this. Right.

Okay. So, so, so focus on romance. Okay. So people, so people are having multiple communication issues in their marriage. I hear about it. Every day, as I'm sure you do too. So how can we help them with empathy?

So one thing is, like I said, it's a mindset. We need to go into our situations thinking win-win. Because if I have an argument with my husband, which I have, and he loses, we both lose.

Right?

So you want to— right. So the mindset itself, if I'm going into a car race, do I go into a car race saying, oh, I'm going to lose? No, of course not. So how come we don't go into a conversation before we even go in saying, this is going to be a win-win. I can't wait. It's going to be a win-win. We're going to have fun. Just like I said before I got on to myself, I'm going to have fun. And didn't we have fun?

Yes.

We are having fun.

Yes.

Okay. So it's a mindset. Now, sometimes you'll have more fun than others. Right.

Yeah.

So these are things that if you have that mindset when you go in and talk to your love, that's great. Also have fun things to do. A lot of people forget to date and that's seriously, that's in my— this book.

Okay.

You'll love this book. This is even—

Meeting People.

Well, let me tell you how good this book is. I think I found my second husband with this book. I was divorced and single for 24 years. Wow. All my clients were getting their people because I was doing everything in the book. And I said, you know what? I'm going to read my— right? Yeah. Yes. So when you see things, and this is another thing, like, I have this. I have all these things. But in this book, I have something about communicating with yourself. Okay. And so you do it in third person. If you do things in third person, Rebecca, it takes you away from it. It's as though you're talking about somebody else. So if you had trauma or if you have things happening, you can see it in a different light, another perspective. Okay. So anyway, so this book, that's what I did. I read it. I didn't say it was written by me. I just read it and I did all the stuff and I met someone. Now he even— people tell me he looks like Richard Gere. He's a little older. He's about 7 years older. And I would not have been attracted to him because he's laid back. He's too nice. He never yells. Not saying he doesn't get mad. And right. So there you go. So that's how good this book is.

I need to get that book for my friend.

So yeah, this book, it's great. And it comes in audio too. I did it in audio.

Wonderful. Okay, so I took you away from work. Let's go back to work.

Oh, yeah.

So we hear about issues with bosses and coworkers all the time.

Right, right.

So let's take empathy into it and help them.

Right. So let's be, uh, one thing about empathy is also being rational. So, and I, I've just, mindset is I am realizing that there's no one that's perfect. Realize that not everyone, okay, this is gonna hurt me. Not everyone loves Jill Robin Payne. Okay? And I don't, I don't get along with everyone. I've got a very strong personality. Matter of fact, I usually have to tone myself down. That's also part of empathy. Find out who you are. And we do alter ourselves with different people. Your voice changes when you talk to your beloved honey. I know you can, like when you're on the phone, you can tell the difference between if someone's talking to their child, their honey, uh, a professional. Our voices even change. Our—

yes.

Okay. We need to be, we need to be conscious of that. And that's okay because we are different with different people. We need to find out first, who are we? And we need to love that who we are. And then we need to find out what are our gifts and how can we use our gifts in our workplace? Then we need to find out who are we working with? What kind of people are they? Okay, I might not really get along great with my boss. He might not be the best. I'm going to say that I am going to make my situations win-win, and I'm gonna do my darndest to find that pathway. If I say that. Now, there are exceptions, okay? There are people that we're not gonna get along with. Then what I have is dynamic watchfulness. That's something in my latest book, the one that's looking at the third side of the coin.

Okay.

Because mindfulness is not enough anymore. Everybody's going, I gotta be mindful. Okay. I'm not into that. So dynamic watchfulness, one of the parts of it is, because everything I'm talking about has dynamic watchfulness in it. I'm getting real serious. So we need to have sometimes what is called an accomplice. Because if I'm in virtual reality, do you know that my brain does not know that it's in virtual reality?

I have heard that, which is crazy.

And there's a lot of other things you need to know. So there's pros and cons to virtual reality, just letting you know. We're not using as much of our brain as we need to. We're making life easier. And you know, if I don't exercise, well, because exercise can be difficult, my body's going to start sagging. And so the same with our brain. So we really need to utilize that. But getting back to this is that we just— now I've lost my conversation where we're doing for the— oh, the boss and getting along. So we need to start looking at the other people because, yes, the world is about us. We also need to focus on the other people in our world. So we can— I just had a client the other day to think about how does your boss talk? Slow, fast. What are the words they use? Start mirroring that. Not only that, listen to them. Listen to them. Shake your head. We don't need to be a bobblehead. You know, a lot of women can be a bobblehead. I don't, I don't mean that, right? I mean, shake your head. Because if I shake my head, what does that mean to you?

That you're agreeing. That you're agreeing.

And I'm going to let you know, I'm not necessarily agreeing. I'm listening. Yet people will think that, Rebecca, they're going to think you're agreeing with them.

Yes.

I remember I was with my son. This is getting off topic just to show you how powerful shaking your head is. It was at nighttime in the dark. A strange man came up to us. I had my window down at the gas station, and my son was in the car. He was probably 8 at the time. And the guy was coming up to me asking me about something. And You know what happens a lot at gas stations at night. You're a single mom, blah, blah, blah. So as I'm rolling up the window, I'm shaking my head as I'm turning on the ignition and rolling out my car and backing away. And he never knew the difference. And he was just as happy.

Oh, boy.

Right. He didn't get what he wanted. I was free and safe. I have no idea. He was a strange man. Dressed sort of funky, and you never know. And so that's how important is your body movement. It's very important. So we need to, like, look what I'm wearing.

Pink.

It's a friendly color. So if I'm having a meeting and if you want to win an argument with your husband, if you're a lawyer and you're in court, wear pink.

Good advice.

You have a better chance. So this is the Empathy, banter with empathy is really about empathizing with yourself, empathizing with other people, bantering so you can see a third side of the coin. And that really is what it is. And it helps social skills. It helps emotional intelligence. In this book, where's my book? I have mirror therapy or mirror mirror games. Therapy is such a negative word. Anyway, so people do look at themselves in the mirror because I'm finding a lot of people are getting a flatter affect, mainly the kids. I don't know if you've noticed that with your children. Now, it's a flat affect is not just the face, it's also the body. And if you— I have a saying, make your environment motivate you to be the person you want to be and get where you want to go in life. Well, so your environment has a lot to do with how you are. So if I'm not smiling, my, my, my, my face is a little bit— I'm not going to feel as good. I'm not going to feel as motivated. People go, why aren't people motivated? Well, there's a lot of reasons. One, dopamine's up to here, so our baseline has changed. The other is our, our facial expressions are not as dynamic. Like, mine is I'm all over the place. I'm about to jump. I have to calm myself down. I'm the opposite, although I'm a people person. So, yes, I choose not to sit down and look at the internet, although we need to in this day and age because it's part of our life. We just need to balance it. So did I help? Did I help at all, y'all?

You did. You did. I'm listening to all of it, and I'm taking notes in my brain. And And I'm wondering why you think we need to act more like children, because I love that advice. Tell us about that.

Well, that simplifies. Kids see things simpler. They're simpler. We complicate things.

Don't we?

We do.

We so do.

We really do. Think about it. We are complicated, yet we're simple. And I'm going to tell you how we're simple. We all want to fit in. We all want to be heard. We all want to be respected and appreciated. That's it. That's it. That goes with your husband, your boss. Yes, your boss. There you go. We're going back to work. If you get that boss to feel that, how do you do it? Well, then they have books like The Five Love Languages. I say, you know what, forget the books, right? Everyone's unique. And that's another thing. Identical twins have different retinas. That's the back of your eye. Identical twins have different fingerprints, different brains. We are all different. We all speak a different language.

That's true, right?

So, and you said again about how do we have fun? Make it fun learning about other people. That's how I learn. Like I told you, I'm going to Australia and New Zealand. I want to be with the people. I want to see how they live.

I love that. Yeah.

And learn from them. And so they have a different culture, and then everybody I meet is going to be different. I'm so excited.

Oh, I love that. So we need to do things that excite us. That's what I'm hearing. So tell us how to be more playful and fun with our kids, because I think that parents— I mean, you and I, we love to have fun. I don't know that everybody agrees with that. So Help the parents be more fun and playful.

Okay, so I'm hearing you say that, and most people avoid pain. Most. There's a very small percentage of people in our world, Rebecca, that feel— that don't feel pain. And those— and then also the, the, you know, the masochists, they like pain. Well, I'm just saying, so small percentage. Well, I'm just saying, so we'll eat We will watch TV, we'll drink, we'll gamble, we'll talk, we do anything. I'm moving around to avoid being— that's not comfortable. Okay. That being said, it may not be we're searching for fun. You can look at it in a negative way. We're avoiding pain. So to me, I say it in a positive way. I say instead of saying I'm avoiding pain, I'm going to do something fun. So eating may be fun. If you do mindless eating, how fun is that?

That's not fun.

It's not fun. So I say do something, do something that revs your energy up. And there's got to be something. And if you don't know it, you can ask friends of different things to do. You can think back when you were little. As a child, think of all the fun things you did. I looked at rocks, I collected stamps, I love to help people. Whatever it is, look at that and see how can I utilize that now? How can I modify that? If that doesn't help, write a list of all the things you don't like doing. Really. Write a list of all the things you don't like doing and write things about that that might be the opposite. So laundry, what would be the opposite of laundry? Making a mess. So maybe I might like finger painting. Maybe I might like going and jumping in the leaves. We used to jump in the leaves back, way back when.

Yeah.

So, so something like that would be make a list of the things that you don't like doing and what would be the opposite. Doesn't mean that it's going to be— it might be making a mess. So go ahead and make a mess. That makes you feel good.

Oh, gosh, I think that's the opposite. I'm like, stop making messes, right?

So. Right. And you told me you love laundry because you love—

I like it neatly put away.

There you go. Okay. See, and that's fun for you. Look, you're laughing. So everybody likes different things.

And that's—

and that's what I think. So think back of when you're a child. Also, you can make that list. And I'm hoping this helps people because I believe if it's not— you might even change the word to enjoyable. If it's not enjoyable, people are not going to do it. They're going to do it begrudgingly.

Yeah.

So we need to make it enjoyable. I just say have fun because that's just me.

Well, and I think that teenagers— I have a few of them. Yes. The conflict with teenagers is it's daily.

Right.

And so let's give the parents one piece of advice to do better with these easy teenagers. Yes.

Okay, well, realize— do this— realize that you were stupid at that time and you know nothing, right? Because I remember my son, who's a doctor now, when he was a teenager up until he was like 21 maybe, I was stupid and I knew nothing. So yes, this is a good time to listen to our teenagers and see what do they like to do. In my BEMpathy, it's— I have the 6 C's, and one is finding commonality, which gets you to connect. There's got to be something that you have in common with them. It might be even gaming. It may— I, I have parents that game together.

Yes.

Okay.

They do. I do hear about that.

Exactly. So, and it doesn't need to be a long time. It's quality, not quantity. You could even do 5 minutes and you're doing it. Remember, how come you're doing something with them? To connect. So you find commonality so you can connect. The more you connect, it's just like in my therapy. I connect with people first and then we go down the road of of what we can do to make life better. Do you understand? If you don't connect, how are they going to relate with you? So there you go. So parents need to listen to their children. It doesn't mean the child— hear me out— I have a lot of parents having the child tell them what to do.

Oh no.

So, so listen, and they want to be friends with their children. You can be friendly with your children You are not a child's friend, just like I am not a friend to my clients. I am friendly to my clients. Otherwise, there's a dual relationship. Do you understand?

So that's really good to distinguish that. That's super helpful.

Exactly. So now when they become an adult and they're making their own money, you, of course, you can be their friend. Right? And then even when we're older, then our roles start changing. My mom, who's 91, I'm helping her out, and I have to still— I need to still remember she's my mother. It's very important. Do you understand? Okay. To remember what the role is of that person.

Oh, my parents do not want my help. I try. I can do it myself. I have to remember that they're my parents and they want to be helping me. But Mom and Dad, if you listen to this, I love to help you.

And so again, it's how we help them.

Yes.

If we can make it their idea. Remember, it's a perception. And I don't mean being manipulative. I really don't mean that, even though it seems that way. We want people to win, right? We want it to be a win-win. That's me. Now, some other therapists, oh, you shouldn't have a tit for tat. I believe people need to believe they're winning.

Yes.

It's just a mindset. That's all it is.

I agree with you. Yes.

And then they're happy.

Right? 100%.

And that goes with all ages when you have a child. So parents, let your child think that they're winning. They can think they've won. Going to bed now or in 5 minutes. They had the choice. Right? Yeah, you are still the parent. It is very important to know they are looking for guidance. For instance, I have in here, these are my 3 characters and I developed these characters because adults, you know, the adult cartoons that we have, right? We people, we relate better to cartoon characters than we do to regular people because, you know, they're bigger than life and they're fun and they're cute. The Flintstones. I always loved the Flintstones. Exactly. So here you have Beacon, Brighton, and Beau. Beacon— I want parents to think of this— Beacon is the leader. And what is he? Well, he looks like a lighthouse. He is the beacon of light, and he enlightens Brighton. He is not pushing them. He is enlightening her. Does that make sense?

He is beautiful.

He is guiding her like a A lighthouse. If we can think that. So if you get my books and two of them, I have my characters here and Bo. Bo was my dog who is no longer with me. I found her. I found, uh, Hershey in the Fifth Ward when I was doing, uh, therapy with people. And that's a bad side of Houston. She came up to me and saved my life. Anyway, she's wonderful. Anyway, so her name is Bo in the book. and she has a little bow and she helps tie everything together and helps everything make sense as the compromiser. So you have the leader, the follower, and the compromiser. So it gets people to understand. So what are parents? Aren't we leaders? Don't we help guide?

Yes, we are. There you go.

That's not a bad thing. That's not a boss, right? I'm helping guide you and get you to have a better life, better than I did. Usually parents want their children to have a better life than they did. Usually.

Absolutely.

There you go.

So take out— there's 3 books, right? Are there more?

Take out your books.

So if you're watching, you can watch this if you don't know that. If you are watching, Jill is going to show us her books. If you are not watching, you can hear us describe the books. So tell them about all the books.

Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, this one, as you know, that's how I found my husband. It's Meeting People. It's Not a Game. And it says, your path to genuine connections through empathy. It also helps you make friends because don't you want to be friends with the person that you're in love with? So it helps you to become friends. It helps you to find that special someone. And that's, that's that book. And it also, that one's on audio with my voice. So it's okay. And yes. And matter of fact, people that get this book, I love this book so much that you can email me and if you don't get a happy face back, I didn't, I didn't get your email and I, When you finish the book, if you have a question, I'll be glad to answer. And this was the first BEMpathy one that I think you're talking about. And it says, looking through children's eyes to simplify communication. And basically what this is, is it's exactly what we've been talking about. It gives you different techniques to be able to step back, see the big picture. It gives you 6 elements that basically what BEMpathy does is it helps people clarify. It helps you to connect and then be more compassionate. And if we were more— and do you know the difference? Just, I'll get sidetracked. I'll say that at the very end if we have time. Okay. And this is my latest book, which is— I love this because this goes more into detail with this one. I love this one. This is my favorite. It's the one that has the map of reflection. And I think the map of reflection, I did that during COVID when everybody was inundated with so much sadness and pressure, and it helped everybody be happier. Okay? Now, remember, happiness is fleeting. So just being content and not feeling overwhelmed is what my map of reflection does. And this is BEMpathy, simplify communication by looking at the third side of the coin. It has a little coin there, the third side, which is the rigid, hard to see. And I just wanted to— do I have a few more minutes?

Yeah.

Okay. So some people, they don't know the difference between sympathy and empathy, and everybody says it different. I want to say it, and I'm going to tell you what happens personally. Simplify. Simplify. Sympathy is feeling sorry for somebody, feeling for someone. I don't even really like it. And so— and then empathy is feeling with. Someone. So the difference is one, you connect. The other one, you're just sort of— you, you, you connect maybe as a person, but not— it's just your— it's— there's a disconnect, actually. And I had one client during COVID that one session, that I sympathized instead of empathized. And let me tell you something, I get goosebumps when I say it. There was such a disconnect, and and that person felt it also and made and mentioned it. So empathy and sympathy, I hope I clarified that well. And then compassion is an act. It's an act of kindness. So just because I'm empathizing doesn't mean I'm compassionate. So compassionate would be I'm opening the door for you because you have a bunch of packages, or I'm asking you if you would like me to help you walk across the street. Just very simple thing. Or I want to listen to your story. I'm being compassionate and listening. You don't need to give a lot of money to be compassionate. So those are the difference. And I think we need to be more bantering with empathy. That's what we need to do so we can step back and see the other side of the coin. We need to understand that I can't get from A to B. I couldn't do this podcast without you. I couldn't spread the word of my BEMpathy without you. And we need to think about that. It's a win-win. We even talked about it. I, what did I say at the beginning of our conversation? I said, listen, I really want to have the, uh, the, the video of us so that I can break it up and I'm going to put it on my site so I can send them to your site. It's no shirt off my back and it's fun. See there, that, that's fun.

We're back to fun. We're having a lot of fun, which I knew we would have.

Are you having fun?

I'm having so much fun. But you told us about your fabulous books, but tell us where to actually buy them.

Okay, on Amazon. And then, and then you can go for— and also their ebooks. You can also, like I said, The Meeting People: It's Not a Game, you can get that on any audio, so Audible, Spotify.

And tell everyone where they can find you, fabulous you.

So I'm telling you, you've made Rebecca— you're fabulous. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. So jillrobinpain.com is my website. It has everything on it. And think of Jack and Jill. Think of pain in the butt or windowpane to help you see better. And Robin the bird. There you go. And so, and then on the platforms, it's @jillrobinpain. So you should be able to find me. And please email me. About different things that you would like to know or have me do some videos on, I would love to hear.

Well, I cannot thank you enough for having fun with me today. I knew I was going to love this.

Oh, thank you. I had so much fun. I can't wait to go up north.

Yes, I know. Well, I would come before it gets super cold.

I'm going to wait till the summer.

Okay. That's a much better idea.

It's so pretty up there. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. Well, this is Rebecca Green, and I want to remind everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. And I loved talking to Jill today.

Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, this show has been produced by Market Domination LLC.

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