How can parents effectively use empathy not sympathy to connect with their high school-aged children

Hello everyone, happy Winey Palooza Wednesday!

Happy Winey Palooza Wednesday!

Do you want to tell everybody about your exciting week and where you just were?

I was on an entrepreneurs organization retreat with my forum group.

And did you have a good time?

I did have a good time and I learned a lot.

And it would have been even better if the weather here in Buffalo, New York had cooperated because it was a beautiful lake house.

It was a beautiful lake house, but it was cold and wet and rainy and windy.

Yeah, what the heck, Buffalo? I walked my dog in the rain today. Let's go!

April showers bring May flowers.

I am so tired of April. It's time for May.

Next week.

How many more days till May? Next week. We have a very exciting topic this week.

We do indeed.

One of the things that we are going to bring to you every so often is a guest writer who happens to be my daughter, our daughter Ella.

Yeah.

And Ella loves to write like her parents do.

Yes.

She definitely got the writing gene. And she decided to write the blog this week. And it is called What Parents Should Know— no.

Yeah.

What Parents Should Know About High Schoolers.

From the perspective of a high schooler.

From the perspective of a freshman in high school, our daughter. And she wrote it. And she sent it to us and I was blown away. And I said, do I have permission to use this as my blog this week? And I added my response. So if you go to winifluza.com, you will read the full blog from Ella and you will read my responses to her. And I am so impressed. She did a fantastic job. What do you think?

Yeah, she's very insightful.

I feel like—

I learned stuff.

Yeah, like I feel like she's an old soul. She's just so wise. The things that come out of her mouth, just brilliant. Yes, she doesn't sound— she sounds, as she tells us over and over again, that high schoolers are young adults. She sounds like an adult.

She does.

So let's jump into Ella's advice to parents. Yes, and let's see if you agree. Let's see if we agree. And let's start with one of her amazing lessons that High schoolers want our empathy, not our sympathy. What did you think of that?

I thought that was very interesting. Do you want to clarify the difference?

Empathy is putting yourself in someone else's shoes and understanding where they're coming from. And I have had to give her— I have had the pleasure of giving her examples of why I understand from being a teenager and being in high school. And sympathy is just feeling bad for somebody.

Yeah.

Oh, Ella, I'm so sorry. I feel so bad for you. That's sympathy. Empathy is I understand where you're coming from. This is why I understand. This is how I understand. Did I explain that well?

You did. Thank you for clarifying.

Okay, does that help you?

It does. I wanted to make sure that we were on the same page.

So what do you think about Ella's advice?

I think it is very helpful because there have been times I have been guilty of the sympathy part when that isn't what she needed.

I think that I don't realize that I give her sympathy when she's looking for empathy.

Yep, and I haven't done enough putting myself in her shoes and helping her feel understood and helping her know why I understand.

And we're going to talk about secrets next, But she was feeling something the other night.

Yeah.

And didn't want to talk about it. And I was frustrated because I knew she was feeling something that she didn't want to talk about and I wanted to help.

And it does drive you crazy.

And—

Want to get to it.

Yeah, but I don't know if you noticed my progress, but I let it go.

Yes, I was very proud of you.

I let it go and didn't insist that she talk to me because I put myself in her shoes.

How about that?

And when I was a teenager, There were plenty of times that I wanted to talk to my mom about everything. There were some times I did not want to talk to her. I wasn't feeling up for it. I wasn't in the mood.

I didn't want to share.

I didn't want to share. I didn't want her perspective. And all of that is okay. And so I went back to teenage Rebecca, and I was able to back off and leave her alone and let her process by herself.

Yes, I was impressed by that because I was— I bit my tongue and didn't say leave her alone.

I hate when you say that.

I know, and I caught myself, and you did it on your own, so it worked out for both of us.

I am going to tell you that, um, you already know this, but I'm going to say it to make myself feel better. I am a very good mother, and you do not have to protect Ella from me. I am very good to her.

Yes, you are.

And I take good care of her.

You do.

And she can stick up for herself.

True. I think there are times that she wants you to be happy, so she might give you what she wants even though she doesn't want to.

Okay, that's a whole nother topic. Let's not get off topic. Let's go to Alice. Focus. Let's go to Alice's second lesson.

Second lesson.

Her second lesson is to understand as parents that kids will have secrets. Teenagers are going to have secrets from us, and they're not going to tell us everything, and they don't want to tell us everything. And Ella says that they don't need to tell us everything, that sometimes they just want to figure it out by themselves. And I'm okay with that. She doesn't have to tell me everything. Here is what I want Ella and Max and Lily to know, our 3 kids. I want them to know that they don't have to talk to me. It's not a requirement, but my door is open to them and they can talk to me when they want to. And I want them to feel like there's not going to be judgment and punishment. I want them to feel like, I can't wait to tell my mom, versus I can't tell my mom, I don't want to get punished.

Right.

And Lily will tell you, we were just talking about this, I'm not gonna punish you. I'm not a big punisher. I have the relationship with our kids that me being disappointed or upset with them is punishment. They— our bond is strong. They want to please, they want to do well, they know what's expected. They're gonna mess up, they're gonna screw up, and they know that I'm not gonna ground them.

You might not.

To a point, to a point. When Seth gets involved, it's a whole nother story.

But I, I, I messed that empathy up a little bit.

But Seth doesn't realize that there are lots— he does realize there's lots of hours that I'm home alone with them.

Yes, I know that he's not here to punish them or enforce that punishment when you decide maybe not to, that I was being unreasonable.

Yes, I'm gonna give you some marital advice, everybody listening. The one of the worst things you can do as a parent is to say a punishment to your child and then go to work and then expect your wife to enforce the punishment that she sounds like that she didn't even want them to have. So I'm saying you cannot give a punishment if you're not going to be here to enforce it because you're giving it me.

Yes, I might have given it to you to enforce once in the last 17 years.

Yeah, we don't do that. I don't— I reject that. So anyways, that's just some off-topic advice.

There you go.

If you want to— if you want to give a punishment, your partner should agree on the punishment.

Yeah.

And you should both be willing to enforce it.

Yes. Just if you threaten your child with something that you're gonna do, you should be willing to actually follow through.

You shouldn't say something that you're not going to actually do, and I do work on that.

Yeah.

And I don't tend to punish them, so they do know that.

Yep.

I mean, it is— let's knock on wood— I haven't had to.

Yeah, you've done a pretty good job.

Let's hope that, uh, little one over there keeps that up. Yeah, she's gonna start barking.

Oh my God, don't even start.

There's no barking on the live, Lily, ever.

Okay, we're done.

Oh my God, so it's so funny that I laugh and he gets upset. I'm like so entertained and That's not helping the situation at all.

You're making it worse.

I will tell you more about that later. Let's talk about privacy. I will tell you that as a parent, I have learned to act a lot, but there are times where my laughter takes over and the strict parent is just not there. You know that happens. I have watched it happen for 17 years.

Yeah.

Okay, privacy. So Ella says to give your child privacy, and she says that kids deserve privacy. They're mini adults. They're young adults. Want privacy. They want privacy and that they should have privacy. And I have my own feelings on this. What are your feelings on this?

As a teenager, I agreed with her and I wanted privacy and did not want to tell my parents everything and did not want them involved in everything either.

Right, but you're a dad now, so let's get into the dad shoes.

Uh, I am gonna— thankfully Ella has never given us a reason not to trust her, so I'm gonna respect her boundaries until we need them, and hopefully we never will.

My response to Ella is that she makes good points. The whole blog makes excellent points, and the difference with Ella is that Ella has earned privacy. She's earned trust. She's earned privacy. She's earned a lot of things because we give her a lot because she's so responsible and hardworking and trustworthy. So I think that it's okay with Ella as of today. She hasn't given us any reason. She hasn't given us a reason not to trust her, but I'm going to tell you that I see children doing things that they shouldn't be doing that their parents don't know about, or maybe texting one of my children something that their parents would be appalled at.

Yes.

And the parents don't know. And maybe some kids don't necessarily deserve that degree of privacy. So I think privacy is earned, and I don't think it's just given. I think it's case by case.

I think that was an excellent point. Okay.

Oh, Ella says if you take away their privacy, we're basically just gonna make them be sneaky, which— I'm gonna find a way to get around it, which is really good advice for us to know as parents, that you take something away, you're just going to make them try to sneak better.

Yes, we don't want that.

And find technological ways to do so. Next is that you shouldn't punish your children for grades. Which is so interesting, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm not going to say never. I wouldn't punish my kids for their grades. We'll see if Seth agrees, because I see the effort that they're putting in, right? So I see them studying, I see them trying. I was driving Lily to school today and she was like, I'm so nervous for my test, I'm gonna study more in Home Base. So she studied a few days, she studied in Home Base, she was trying. So if she doesn't get a good grade, I'm not going to punish her because I know she tried, right? Now Ella is working her buns off and got a 98.88 average. We're not going to punish Ella for her grades. We know that she's working her buns off. There's no punishing her. However, If your child is showing no effort, that's a whole different situation. And before you jump to punishing your child, I'm not going to tell you not to punish your child, but what is the explanation? What is the understanding? Why aren't they putting in the effort? Why aren't they getting the good grades? And I, I'm going to tell you 2 reasons off the top of my head. Reason number 1 is they're struggling, so they've given up. Reason number 2, they're bored out of their mind, so they've given up. So I find it tends to be one of the extremes. Is your child super smart and they are bored to tears? Is your child really struggling and doesn't even know where to begin? So there's a lot of other reasons, but I'm saying rather than jumping to punishing them, which they may deserve because they're putting in no effort, What is the root cause of them putting in no effort?

That makes sense.

Okay, so I agree with Ella, but I also think, again, it's a case-by-case basis, right? Okay, Ella reminds us to tell our children that we're proud and how much that means to them. And when Ella is really down on herself, when we come in and tell her how proud we are of her and we give her specifics. I don't just like to say, "I'm so proud of you." I like to tell them why I'm so proud of them. And why I say that is because it helps them identify their strengths. And going back to grades, instead of being like, "I am so proud of you for getting that 100 on your test today," I wanna say to Lily, "I'm so proud of you because you studied so much for that test." So it's not the outcome necessarily that I'm proud of. I'm proud of how she got there, right?

Because you can't always control the outcome. I think a specific praise is much more meaningful than generic.

And what I was explaining to her in the car the other day is that I'm like, between you and I, nobody gives a crap about your 6th grade grades. But the reason why I care is because it's, you're developing habits for the future. So I'm like, nobody's gonna look at your 6th grade grades, but you're setting yourself up for success in high school when they are gonna be looking at your grades. So she's learning the study habits now that will take her far. Yes, you agree?

I do.

Ella says to let them make their own mistakes. And this lesson keeps coming up for me. So I think that I listened to a psychiatrist today say one of my favorite lines that I will always remember, and it was that he was getting self-esteem from solving his kids' problems, but he was stealing their self-esteem.

Wow.

And I was like, oh my God, that is like so profound. We don't want to get rewarded, right, from helping our kids with their problems. We want to get rewarded from pausing and stepping back and letting them handle it because that's good parenting, and you can say, "Good job, me." And because you're setting your kids up to solve their own problems and gain their own confidence and learn how to do that. And if they're stumbling, it's okay. If they don't know where to begin, it's okay. I was telling Seth today that what we can do in that situation is ask them questions to help guide them versus just giving them the answers.

Yes, if you can help them arrive to it on their own, it goes much better.

I'm so impressed with her. Is there anything that she said that you didn't agree with?

No, I think she was spot on.

Is there anything that she said that stuck out to you? Oh, I'm gonna remember that when I'm parenting.

I, I think it's all of it. I think the whole thing. Yeah, I don't think I just— there's nothing on there I disagree with. I, you know what, there is an answer to that question. The empathy over sympathy is something that I think I need to focus on.

That was the most helpful to me. That's what I was gonna say.

How about that?

Because I can tell you that I'm giving too much sympathy and not enough empathy.

Right.

So our kids want to be understood. That's the lesson there. And our kids want to be understood and want us to listen more than they want us to give them advice, which is what I keep learning. Yeah, especially— oh, this is so important— my 11-year-old versus my 17-year-old is like, you humongous. The 17-year-old has already solved his problem and told me how he did it before I can do anything. The 11-year-old is, I don't know what the hell to do in this situation, right? It's a huge difference, but she's learning. And she'll come home and she'll be like, so this was the situation and this is what I did. And I'm like, Lily, No, but she's learning. She's getting some of it right, she's getting some of it wrong, and she's gonna keep learning.

Yeah.

And the 15-year-old is in the middle.

Yes.

So I'm super impressed with Ella.

Yeah.

I'm looking forward to more blogs from Ella.

Yeah.

It is going to be summertime soon and she is going to have more time to write for us, so that is super exciting. And yeah, one of her jobs is going to be writing. For your company.

It is, yep.

And my platform will be one of her assignments.

Yes, it will.

And I appreciate her help because I think this was really helpful for parents to hear.

For sure.

Thank you, Ella. I know she's wandering around somewhere. Yeah, I loved it. I was impressed. She's so insightful, she's so helpful, and I appreciate her honesty. Like, she doesn't— she's not the type of kid who's gonna be like, Mom, you're perfect, don't change. She's gonna be like, Mom, I love you so much, you're so wonderful, and can you cut out the sympathy? I don't like it, it doesn't work for me. Yeah, like, she's gonna tell us what's not working for her.

Very helpful.

And I'm learning to give her more space, as you saw the other night.

I did, I was impressed.

You didn't tell me you were impressed.

Got distracted. Sorry about that.

I like to hear when you notice me doing things right because you definitely tell me if I do it wrong. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. He gives me a lot of praise. I'm totally—

thank you.

I'm totally exaggerating. He's wonderful. He gives me lots of praise.

This is true. I do.

Yes, you do. And you make me feel very loved and appreciated.

Thank you.

I'm glad you hear that.

Yes. So This Friday I have Berzabeh Ray, and I can't believe I just said her name right because I want to say Berzabeth, which is how she spells it. But you are going to love this woman. I was so freaking impressed with her. I cannot believe what her and her family has been through. You're gonna hear it, and you're gonna hear about resilience, which is one of the most important qualities that we can teach our children. So hopefully you learn something from her. Hopefully you love her as much as I I did. I do. I loved talking to her, and I think my producer told me it was one of her most favorite interviews that I've done.

Oh wow. So I can't wait to hear it.

I hope that you enjoy it, and come find the Whining Clues and Mom group on Facebook. We're going to start the May Challenge on May 1st and just doing lots of supportive, uplifting content, and you can talk about what you're succeeding with in parenting and marriage, what your challenges are, and there's lots of people there to help you. And the Whiny Pooza newsletter is going strong. You could find everything at whinypooza.com. And anything else I'm missing?

You got it all. Like, share, subscribe.

I was just— I'm really bad at saying that. No, I'm really good at saying that. I gotta put it out to the universe. So I appreciate when your comment I love hearing your comments. I love hearing what you think. I love hearing your topic requests, and I love when you share these with a friend. It means a lot to me, and it helps us help more people, which is the goal. So thank you so much, everyone, and have a fantastic week.

Happy Winey Palooza Wednesday.

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