The Whinypaluza Podcast with Rebecca Greene Episode 016 Harmony in the Home

No need to whine, it's Whiny Palooza!

Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza Podcast with Rebecca Green.

Welcome to the Whiny Palooza Podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family. Hello, this is Rebecca Green for the Whiny Palooza podcast. I am so excited. I have Kelly Hutchison here today. She is a child counselor with a master's in child counseling. A Certified Life Coach from the Life Coach School with Brooke Castillo, a behavior specialist, a teacher, and a parent of 2. She is addicted to positivity and living her best life each and every day without coasting. She has overcome people pleasing, perfectionism, and caring what others think to live her most authentic life, and she loves teaching others how to do the same. Her passion has always been for her kids. Her emphasis in life is in helping parents connect more with their children, getting them to listen without yelling, and restoring the harmony in your home forever. Kelly is a bundle of positive energy who radiates this through her message of having fun again with your children, enjoying them on a whole new level. Kelly loves teaching and will help you see your children in their miraculous light as they were hand chosen for you to raise.

Oh, I'm blushing.

I'm, I'm so moved by this. This is moving. It's actually making me tear up. It's so moving. Thank you so much for being here and for doing this with me.

Oh my gosh, this is my honor. Are you kidding me? I love talking about this.

You're awesome. I already told you that I've become a junkie of your podcast, Harmony in the Home. Oh my God, I have learned so much, so much stuff from you.

Oh my gosh, that makes me feel so happy because it's so scary to— this is the closet I sit in. Record it. And it's so scary to do it. So you saying that is the gas to my car to keep going.

Yes, keep going because I am addicted and I walk my dog every day and listen to you and have had so many good aha moments. You call them aha moments and we will get some of mine. I'm going to ask you some questions just so that other people can also have the same wonderful moments that I've been having listening to you.

Of course.

I want to start at the beginning though. I want to ask you what inspired you to get into being a parent and life coach?

Oh my gosh, that's such a great question. I used to be a teacher and a counselor in the schools and I loved, loved, loved what I was doing until I had my own kids and I had no gas left in the tank when I got home. Like I was having at school, having kids throwing chairs at me and spitting at me and like serious behavior problems because they were struggling. And so I was able to stay cool and calm and collected in those moments. But then when I got home, my kids would ask me for like a glass of water and I'm like, really? And they're like, one in three. I'm like, you can get your own. I wasn't necessarily like that, but I was so snappy at home. Yeah, I was so calm at school. So I was like, well, maybe if I could do this, what I'm doing in the schools, I could do it on my own time, then I could have time freedom and not be so burnt out by the hamsters.

Yes.

Yes. Like, still scratch that itch because I tried staying home for a little bit and that was like, okay, I can only organize the pantry so much. I needed to still scratch that itch.

Yes.

This is a way to marry the two and it's been It is so transformative.

Well, I can tell that it is working for you because the stuff that you are putting out to the universe is wonderful. So, thank you for making the switch.

Oh my goodness. It was a scary, scary leap, but I knew I had to do it because our home was just very stressed and I felt like we were always walking on eggshells.

Yes, yes. Well, and pre-children, I was at work. Some days it was from 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. at night, and I am so glad I am not doing that because there is no way I would have energy for my kids. Right.

Right. You only have so much emotional bandwidth every day. And I was giving it all to my job and I love doing it.

Yes.

Then I tried giving it all to my kids and I'm like, well, this isn't really still scratching that itch. I feel like God put me on this planet to connect families with their kids. And that's what I was doing in the schools. So to be able to do the two, my son, he's 10. He's like, I don't think mommy works. You just sit on, you sit on the computer in your closet. I'm like, you keep thinking that. That's a compliment. Thank you for saying that. I love that.

I love that so much. So I love your message that you're an imperfect mom raising imperfect kids. That's a great message. Can you tell us what that means to you?

Yes. Well, it's funny because I started teaching and I was always in child something, working with children since like age 10. And so when I graduated, I was 21 when I got my first job as a 5th grade teacher. And I was, I felt like in the schools I was very, I had high efficacy. Like I felt like I could connect with the kids. I felt like, you know, I was getting a lot of like, if there was 20 kids in the classroom, I could get them all kind of doing what they needed to be doing. We had a high connection. I had good relationship with the parents and I was a very, I feel like if I look back, I was a very calm and very patient and very, not still strict but loving. That's what they would say, strict but loving teacher. And, but when I became a mom, so I thought because I had all this experience, I had parents who I thought were amazing and still are to this day. So I thought because I had all this experience, experience and I had my master's degree in counseling, that parenting was going to be actually a little bit easier for me because yes, it was hard for us to get pregnant. It took us 6 years. So I thought that that was our journey, our battle, so to speak. So once the kids came, it would be so easy. Well, I was literally hit with a ton of bricks of how hard parenting was. So I could be this calm teacher at school, like literally, like I was saying, kids throwing chairs at me and I didn't even, I didn't even pull blank. I was like, this kid's really struggling. And then my own 2 kids, Yeah, 1 in 3 were interrupting me on the phone and I turned into a crazy woman. I couldn't figure out what the disconnect was. And I remember telling my husband, I'm like, I think I'm a better teacher and counselor than I am a mom because there's something that they need that I can't give them. There's something wrong with them. I was Googling things on BabyCenter. I was sending it to my husband. I'm like, I think Lily has this. I think Grady has this. I thought something was wrong because it could have been me because I was like, I'm the quote unquote expert. And so he'd write back to me and he'd be like, Ann, like, what's your point? Like, and I'd be like, what are we supposed to do here? It's like, if you don't know, how am I supposed to know? You know, he said he works in finance, money problems, and we have money problems, then you come to me and I'll solve them. But like, this is out of— I'm just following your lead. It's like, this is out of my realm. So I was so frustrated. I was so disconnected. And I couldn't figure it out until I did. And now that's what I've been sharing since I figured it out of how to like merge the two and be the mom that I wanted to be because I was sleeping with so much mommy guilt. Yeah, crying myself to sleep going, if I figure this out, what's wrong with my kids or what's wrong with me or what's wrong here, I will spend the rest of my life paying this forward. And that's what I've been doing.

Well, you certainly have. That's— wow, that's a great story. I'm smiling because my husband's in finance and one of my daughters is Lily.

Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Yeah, my 12-year-old, the one that woke me up to all of this, she's like, you need to straighten up your act because she was the one that was acting up the most. Yes, the dynamic that was before. It's the name. It's the name. I'm telling you, she would act up, then I would get stressed. Yes. Happy. Then my husband was upset that I'm upset because he's very protective of me. And then my son, who's like very energy, he loves it. He would like sense the energy in the house and he just start crying for no reason. Oh, this is not what it was supposed to be like. And I know all these visions and dreams of how it was going to be like I was going to be nursing, my hair was going to be, you know, cascading over their head while it was just I was miserable and they were miserable too. And so I was just on this journey and I was like, I gotta figure this out. And so now I'm just paying it forward.

Well, we appreciate you paying it forward.

I'm so glad.

One of the key concepts that you talk about is that reactivity is all fear-based. Can you give us an example of this? Cause it's so important.

Yes, this is so, so huge. So every parent, so there's something called the ego. And I learned about this through the book, The Conscious Parent by Dr. Shefali, which I didn't even know was a thing. I thought ego was a guy. Guy on Wall Street who thought he was too hot to trot, driving around in a Lamborghini. The ego is actually the opposite. The ego is rooted in fear of not being good enough. It's rooted in lack. It's rooted in— it's the bodyguard for the little girl that lives inside of us that is afraid that we're not good enough. And are we going to get the A? And so the ego wasn't a factor in the schools. And that's where I figured out the disconnect. If I didn't have an ego with my students, I saw the child as having a hard time versus giving me a hard time. Yeah, my 1 and 3-year-old interrupted me on the phone. They were giving me a hard time. They're going to make me look bad. It was all about me. If we went to a birthday party, yes, way there I was lecturing them. We're going to do this and you're going to do this and you're going to do this. And then you're going to say please, you're going to say thank you, and you're going to let mommy talk to her friends. And if mommy talks to your friends, there was so many rules that by the time I got there, they were so scared to even— oh, that— because it was all about me. Like, how are you going to look? Because I'm the teacher, I'm the counselor. You can't make me look bad, so you need to behave. It was almost like I was like raising robots. And so the reaction, the reactivity came from me of that I had this thought that I didn't even know was an unconscious thought that kids need to be happy all the time. And if kids are happy, then that means I'm doing a good job as a mom. So when my daughter would cry, that would trigger in me, you're not good enough, you're failing, you weren't meant to be a mom, like you weren't meant to do this. That's why you struggled to have babies for 6 years. Maybe you should have just been a teacher. All these messages was going on inside of my head in this moment between their action and my reaction. And I was having all all these preconceived notions of they need to be happy all the time, they need to make me look good, you need to have your manners because that means I'm doing a good job as a mom. And so I was using my kids as a pawn to reflect of how I was doing as a parent versus using my side of the street and reflect on how I was doing as a parent.

Makes so much sense. So much sense.

I didn't even know what the ego was. And ego is always rooted in fear and lack. I had no fear and lack in the schools, but with my own two, I was like, I remember when we, it took us 6 years to have kids. So I remember, and it was quote unquote my fault. The doctors were always saying, Kelly's abnormal. Kelly, you know, it was quote unquote my fault. And so I felt such an unspoken responsibility that like, once I figured this out, we have kids. I remember holding my daughter going, you can't mess this up, Kelly. Like, you've waited your whole life for this. You spent all this money on in vitro. You can't mess this up.

So much stress.

Yeah, that was the underlying pressure going on. But I didn't even know that it was there because I didn't even know what the ego was. So learning what the ego was and like allowing the feeling to be there and allowing the voice to be there it lowered my reactivity because there's always a space between their action and your reaction. And in that space is ego, and in that reaction is always ego. It doesn't mean that something's wrong with you and there's not something wrong with kids. It's actually the opposite. You love them so much. It's almost like I love them so much that I was enmeshed and codependent, and I needed them to act and be and do in certain ways so then I could feel like a good mom. So that's where I was like, eureka!

Yeah. Well, and you helped me because you have said things like, "They're pushing your ego. They're not pushing your— like, when they're pushing your buttons, they're pushing your ego," which has made me think so much when I get reactive, like, what is going on for me right now that I feel this reactive right now?

Yes, yes. And you can also see it in the moment. Like, consciousness happens— it happens like a lot of times the guilt happens because the consciousness comes afterwards. After the meltdown, after yelling, after you're like, oh my gosh, what happened? Oh my gosh. And then we go into— I remember I came home from the mall one day and I was— it was a bad, bad day. And the kids were just all over pushing my buttons, quote unquote. And I remember my husband getting home, going, how was the mall? And I'm like, Lily did this, then Grady did this, and then they did this. And so then I did this. It was like justifying. He's like, you really can't do that because they're like little. You can't be snapping at them like that. And he was like lecturing me. I'm like, I literally said this out loud. This is embarrassing to say, but I literally said, Well, she started it and she was 3. I'm like, how? But I didn't even know at the time. I was justifying. I'm like, well, if she would have done XYZ, then he would have. It was like a domino effect. If they would just behave, then I wouldn't have to act like a crazy lady. It's more now, if I behave, then they won't act like crazy kids. And so making that switch, it was super empowering. I remember where I was standing in my room going, in my house going, wait, if I'm the problem, then that means I'm the solution because I spent so many years, 5 years trying to change them. And they're just a giant reflection of us. I was like, what? This is insane. It was such an empowering moment that I was like, oh, I just have to focus on my side of the street and I don't have to worry about what they're doing. Then it became super fun to parent because I was like, come to me with all your problems, come to me with all your tears, and I will be able to help you. Because we're not teaching our kids what to do with their emotions. We're like, stop it, go away, go to your room, leave me alone, act your age. Grow up, stop pushing my buttons, oh, you're having a bad day, like all these like messaging to our kids. And they're like, it's like my son's in 4th grade, sending him to his room and going, figure out that chemistry book, I don't want you to come out until you figure it out. He's going in there going, I don't understand this chemistry. I know you ain't helping me either. I know kids get in trouble for doing what we do to them. It was like, oh my gosh, it's so empowering and it's so enlightening to find this work. And to pay it forward because it gives the parents the keys to the kingdom versus giving it to the kids. And they're on this all day, like that's their emotional roller coaster.

Yes, yes, they are.

So then we're on it with them and that's why we're exhausted. But like, yeah, just be the calm in their storm.

Yes.

Start to even out and they're like, oh, I know what to do now when I'm upset, when I'm mad, when I'm sad, when I'm angry, and when I'm disappointed. I love teaching our kids enough about emotional literacy and then they're not able to read and we're so frustrated with them. So that's why it feels like Groundhog's Day.

Yes, it does. It does. And I want to back up to, okay, so we feel reactive.

Okay.

And then you say the power of the pause right there.

Yes. Okay.

Can you—

Holly does actually. Okay.

Well, can you, can you talk about it? Because that is where I'm at right now, where when I get reactive, I am now saying, okay, I'm aware, I'm going to pause. And then, and then can you tell us what's next?

Yes, so if your child's like, let's say they're having a meltdown. Like my son, we got, we were driving to school today and there was a huge accident so we were late and both my kids being late, there's nothing worse. It's bad. They pretty much feel like they're being put up for adoption being put up, being late because they are so scared of being late. So there's this huge accident, we're gonna be late. He's never been late before. He doesn't know how to get a late pass. He's at a new school. He's wigging out in the car. So when our children are upset, the first thing we want to do is we want to make them feel better. We either want to like if they're nervous for a play, "You're not nervous, you'll be fine," instead of just allowing the emotion. We have to get comfortable seeing our kids uncomfortable. Yeah. So as difficult as it was, and sometimes we give consequences during that time, like, "You're not acting your age, you need to grow up, you're going to lose the iPad," or like, we go into like lecture mode and we go into consequence mode, and that is gas to the fire. So I teach parents how to, during that moment where he's flipping out in the back seat because he's going to be late because he's terrified, of you completely detach. Detach means you detach your ego. You would attach your ego because you want to attach at the heart level. So when we detach the ego, I always akin it to if you've ever babysat your brother or your niece or nephew, or if you've ever been a soccer coach, or like that detachment when you see a kid flipping out, then you're not like, you're not like, it means nothing about me. This has nothing to do with me in this moment. So that's where you detach the ego and fear. So in that detachment, then you go into the emotion with them. Like, okay, I see that you're feeling— I said, he's older now, so I can give him a choice of two. But if he was younger, I would say, I feel like you're feeling nervous. Or I would say, are you feeling shame? Are you feeling embarrassment? Because he kept saying, I don't want to walk in the class. I'm going to be the last one and all these eyeballs looking at me. And I said, do you think that the— do you worry about the shame or embarrassment when you have all those eyes on? He's like, so embarrassing. And then I'm going to catch up on my handwriting. And then I'm gonna have to sit out at recess. It's like this domino effect. I'm like, oh, I bet that sounds super scary. I know how that feels. So you, you first attach, then you label the emotion. If they're older, you can give them a choice of two emotions because you're trying to get them out of that burning building. It's almost like they're drunk on emotion. If you've ever had a conversation with someone who's had too much to drink, it's like talking gibberish. There is no reasoning with someone who's drunk. So in that moment, they're drunk on emotion, and then what we do is we join the emotion with them. But the goal is to detach and then you label. That's the first thing is you label the emotion, or if they're older, you give them a choice of two because that empowers them. And then I just said, you know, I was at, I had that call yesterday and we were running late from school. So I know how you feel. He's like, that was nothing like this. This is 10 times worse. I'm like, you are so right. You are so right. That is 110 times worse. I'm just saying, I know how that feels, that sense of nervousness. And I was so embarrassed. I had never met with this person before. And here I am late. He's like, yeah, it's so embarrassing. And then I was like, do you need help calming down or do you want to calm down by yourself or do you just want to cry and get it out? Because sometimes it feels really good just to get it out. It's like a good laugh.

Yes.

My son says it's like a good burp. He's like, I just need to cry. And I'm like, get it out, get it out of your system. That's your body's way of saying like, and it's crazy because a lot of people will say, well, I don't want to raise a crybaby and they need to toughen up. And I said, this is what makes them actually cry less because they know that they're safe to do it. And then I said, once we get out of this red zone, then we can start to problem solve. Like, and so he started to calm down. I'm like, do you want— are you ready to problem solve? Are you ready? Just— you want to still be upset? He's like, what if we call the school? And I'm like, oh my goodness, that's a genius idea. So I call the school, put it on speaker, and the teacher— and he's like, I'm not talking. And I'm like, oh, you can talk a little bit, you know, trying to make him laugh because he likes to laugh to get out of the red zone. We call it the red zone.

Yeah, yeah.

And, um, yeah. And so I said, um, because sometimes we have code words for— we're in the red zone— Rumble Stillskin, nunchucks, and smelly armpits are 3 things. I go, are you ready for nunchucks? He's like, I am not even close to ready for nunchucks. Don't even go there. I'm like, I get it. I'm just wondering. And then so we're calling and he's sobering up, so to speak. And I said, do you want to talk a little bit? You could just say your name and school ID. He's like, absolutely not. I'm like, Brady, I'm kidding you, buddy. I got your back. We will figure this out. And so during this like super stressful moment, I'm like, I got your back. We are going to figure this out. We're going to come from a place of yes. And we're going to call the school and what What are they gonna say? What do you think they're gonna say as it's ringing? He's like, I don't know, I'm gonna be in so much trouble, I'm so much trouble. So I'm like, hi, this is Kelly, my son Grady's fourth grade, he's never been late. She's like, oh, that's okay, there's a whole line, there's all these people late because of the accident, you're fine. Yeah, he's not gonna be in trouble, we're giving a 20-minute grace period. And you could just see the relief in his face of like, okay, this is okay, it's not just me, you know. He felt so alone until after we were out of the red zone I'm like, that was some big feelings you were having, wasn't it? And he's like, yeah, that was huge. I'm like, it's super scary to walk in late. And so it's like, I was adding fuel to the fire before by like, stop it, you're act— you act your age, it's going to be fine. Because we're so uncomfortable seeing our kids uncomfortable. So once we can get comfortable seeing them uncomfortable, then we can kind of connect over that. And when you have connection with your kids, you're going to have cooperation. We want the opposite to happen, but they don't know what to do with their emotions. So in that moment, I'm like, Let's get it out and then let's go to problem solving. But if you're not ready to problem solve, that's okay too. We'll just keep— they're eventually going to sober up. They don't just keep crying and crying, but we can actually diffuse the situation versus adding gas to the flames. Because if I would have said at that moment, you just lost 20 minutes of the iPad. Holy moly. And you're in a car. It's trapped. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like a trap. But I had to do the work in that moment. Like, Kelly, this child does not belong to you. This child's having a hard time, not giving you a hard time. He's a child from God. He doesn't belong to you. He's not a reflection of you. I had to do all this work in that moment. And I literally said to myself, what would Coach Kelly do? What would Kelly do if she was conscious in this moment? But we go unconscious and then that crying or the sadness triggers something within us that triggers that lack. And the reaction always comes from lack. And a lot of times kids didn't feel seen when they are— moms don't feel seen when they were younger. And so a lot of times they, they will tell me, I just was seeing black. I don't even know what happened. I just lost it. And it was over something so little. I don't know. And I said, well, a lot of times we have this unconscious fear that we're actually yelling at our parents that weren't there for us and weren't listening to us. So when our child doesn't listen to us, they trigger on that old wound, and we try to heal it in current time by yelling at our child when we're really yelling at our parents. So it's really deep and profound to do this work because we have all this childhood wounding, all this childhood programming that we bring into the— and all this baggage that we bring into this relationship. And so when our child pushes on our buttons, they're not pushing on our buttons, they're pushing on our ego. And that's the little girl inside of all of us that's so afraid of messing it up. So we parent from that fear-based place, and that's where we're messing it up, because these wounds don't go away. And when we're children, if we're not taught to handle the wounds, we just bring them into our adult relationships.

Yes, we do.

And we try to heal that old wound in current time through yelling, through screaming, through whatever it is, or through choosing people in our life that replicate someone that looks familiar to us.

Well, and you have said so many important things. I'm taking it all in. And one of the things that you said that is so important is that we want to fix our kids. And I think we're jumping too quickly to problem solving.

Right.

So I have to, you know, especially with Lily and her big feelings, I have to let her get to the calm place before I can help her.

Yes. And I think also normalizing it for them that this is a normal human emotion. We always want to make the— we want to— we're trying to change the behavior, but we never want to change the emotion. So, if we can normalize that emotion, like this is sadness, this is fear, this is anxiety, this is shame, this is embarrassment. These are all things you are going to feel at 44, 54, 24. You are going to feel them for the rest of your life. Yes. So, I am going to empower you now to let you know I am 46, that I am 46 and I have these emotions and they are completely normal and they are completely OK. How we manage them is what we are going to work on and it takes 10,000 hours for someone to master a skill. So, it is a lot of rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.

That is a lot.

That's a lot of time. Yeah, I know.

Long time.

I'm still trying to master it. I'm like, how am I not able— sometimes I'm not able to feel my feelings. So if we teach our kids how to feel their feelings, but they're going to be 24, 34. Because what happens is we, we tell them, stop it, go to your room, stop feeling. And so some kids can stuff it, which we don't want. And then some kids get super explosive because they are holding that beach ball underneath water, like Brooke talks about. And that resistance of that emotion is what's causing the huge emotion. So I had one of each. I had one who was super explosive because I was like, be happy, we're the happy Hutchinsons. Stop it, stop it, stop it, go to your room, go to timeout. And then I had another one who was just a stuffer, people pleaser, like just whatever you say, I will do. And then they couldn't think for themselves and couldn't manage their emotions when, you know, they struck out at T-ball or they, you know, got left out. And so we're not empowering our kids because we're teaching them, don't feel these feelings. And when you do, something's gone wrong. So go to timeout. So then when they're 24, 34, 44, and they have these emotions, they put themselves in an adult timeout. That's why people overeat, overdrink, oversmoke, overshop, over Facebook, whatever it is, because they're trying to get away from that emotion versus like normalizing it for these 947 hours that they're in our home. And then when they're grown and flown, they're like, oh, when their computer shuts down and they've been working on something for 2 hours, they're like, oh, I felt this emotion 100 times. This is completely normal. Nothing's gone wrong.

Yep. Oh my goodness. Well, you're moving right into people pleasing, which I wanted to talk about next. Okay, so you talk about how people pleasers even become people pleasers with their children. Okay, you're talking to a people pleaser right here. Can you tell me and everyone else why it is not good to be a people pleaser?

Well, it's funny because I said I've overcome it in my bio, but I really, I'm always in recovery. It's like a, it's like a 10-step, 12-step process. I can't say I've actually conquered it. It's a daily going on of like not wanting to please my kids, not wanting to please my husband, not wanting to please all the people, not wanting to please like to do all the things. Because if someone's really a people pleaser, then what they're actually doing is they're making the people that are closest to them very displeased. Because what I used to do when I was heavy in my people-pleasing mode was I would sign up for all the things because I never wanted to disappoint anybody. I was on every committee. I was on all the things.

Yeah.

I didn't want to disappoint anybody. And so I, I've done a lot of inner work to figure out that we all start off as parent pleasers. So we always want to please our parents and that's us in emotional childhood. That's completely normal. That's part of the human experience. Our parents, our caregivers are like our oxygen. So it's very normal and I can see my kids doing it too and your kids are doing it too. They just want to please us. They want to affirm. They want to know that they're good enough. Just like we're walking around going, am I good enough, mom? Our kids are walking around with those same thoughts like, am I good enough? Am I valuable? Am I worthy? Well, let me excel at sports. Let me excel at grades. Let me do things that are in my control. But if they're parent is yelling at them, then they're like, okay, maybe I'm not good enough. And they don't stop loving the parent, they stop loving themselves, that they think that something's wrong with them. And so a lot of times that people pleasing is rooted in— it went from parent pleasing into people pleasing. And so what happens is we put on this facade because we want to make all the people happy. For me, it was like, I never want to disappoint my parents. I still don't to this day at 40. Yeah, me too. So I grew up and I brought that emotional child into all my relationships. I never wanted to disappoint my husband, never wanted to disappoint my, my kids, never wanted— my parents never yelled, screamed, or spanked. They just said We're just appointed. Hi, Miss! You missed curfew. I was like, I would rather you take me out in the back and just whip me, whip me. I know. We call it the D word in our family.

Yes.

What happens is we become an emotional adult and then we disappoint someone and we think, oh my gosh, they're going to figure it out. And that's the little girl inside of all of us. That's the ego being pushed. They're going to figure us out that I'm not good enough and there's something wrong with me. So when they, when we come from this place of like, I'm good enough and I'm going to be able to disappoint people because I'm not disappointing the people within my four walls. I teach parents how to create their Saturn, and their Saturn is number one. You're in the middle. That doesn't mean you come first. That means me too. I'm taking care of myself so I can take care of you. We're doing it together. And then you have this rung of Saturn. Like, the first rung is the people within your four walls. It's— you're in the middle, then the people within your four walls, and then the next rung are the people usually that you grew up with. And it keeps going and going where it's like Then the outer rungs, then you have people at work, then you have people at, you know, your acquaintances, and you have the PTA, and you have all the people coming at you. But you give in proportion your time and energy of the people where they are in Saturn. So you give yourself the most first because you want to fill up your cup first to then pour into the people within your four walls because you want that connection. Because we all want connection. And so sometimes when the relationships within our four walls, if they're fractured or they're strained then what happens is we skip that wall and then we go out far out. We're on the church committee, we're on the school committee, we're on all the committees, we're, we're on PTA, we're doing the Pinterest mom, we're doing all the things that don't really align with us because we want that connection and there's friction within our four walls. So then we go further out and we're trying to get that connection, or we go on Facebook, or we, we do whatever we need to do to get that connection. So when you focus and have those concentric circles and give in proportion to where they are in your Saturn that helps kind of alleviate a little bit. And it's okay for people to be disappointed, and then you can kind of give in proportion, if that makes sense.

It makes total sense. And I think that we lose sight of what's really important to us, and we just get lost in just pleasing anyone in our life.

Yes, because we're trying to— and Dr. Shefali said, she said this to— she said this in a group, and I almost fell out of my chair. She said, you know, people pleasers are actually very selfish people. And I was like Wait, what? No, you don't even understand. Like, I'm a people pleaser and I'm proud of it. I say it at interviews. This is what, you know, this is— I'm a, I'm a bird. I'm, I'm like Mother Teresa. I'm a people pleaser. But she said, she said people are people pleasers because they're trying to get an unmet need fulfilled through someone else. And I was like, well, dang, well, that might be part of what I was doing. I was trying to get a fulfilled, unfulfilled need met through other people, or I was trying to get more. It was like a It's almost like our auction. And then, um, people pleasers are usually empaths, and then they also usually draw in and they're attracted to people who are takers.

Yeah.

So then it's like, and then the taker gets their need, unsatisfied need, met too, because they— oh, I found a taker. And so the taker and the people pleaser are a perfect union to teach each other where they need to grow. We're both using each other to get fulfilled and unmet need. And I was like, huh, that makes sense. And then Brooke Castillo, she's like, well, they're not selfish. But they're liars. And I was like, okay, so now I'm selfish and I'm a liar and a people pleaser? Are you kidding me? Well, yeah, because you put on this facade and you change like a chameleon and you say yes to all the baby showers as you're neglecting your own family. And like, how is that people pleasing the people around you? Well, it's like, it's so crazy that we say we're people pleasers, but then I've been telling— I've been— people have been telling me that I'm liars and selfish. And I was like, let me kind of look at this, because I— when I was in people pleasing mode, The people within my four walls were miserable. My husband's like, we are overscheduled, overbooked. My daughter was like, this is too much for me. She was 5 and she's like, you need to chill out. She didn't say that, but she was saying that with her behavior. Well, how is people pleasing working? Because if, if they're not people pleased, like, if I have a people pleaser in my life, I'm like, the greatest gift you can give me is to please yourself and be a happy, aligned person. That is the best you can give me. So I, I now teach that to parents of like, you're going to want to be the people pleaser to all the things. But you really have to— because what you're worried about is what other people think about you. And what really you need to think about is, what do I think about me? And when you get in alignment with that, then it's okay for people to be wrong about you. And the further they're out are on your Saturn, they will be wrong about you, and that's okay. Because you know within your four walls, those relationships are— they're like tried and true, and they're like, they're fine-tuned, and they're in alignment.

Yes.

So then it doesn't matter as much.

Well, and the other thing is, don't you think that what I'm finding is people want to know what we really think? They don't want us to say yes if we don't want to. Yes, they want us to be honest with them.

Yes. If I barbecue, I do not want anyone at my barbecue out of obligation.

Yes. Yes.

Want to lay in their jammies? That is an okay reaction for— yes, my barbecue. Because I don't have an ego, and so I don't have an ego, I'm not getting my feelings hurt. Because I am like, I get jammies and slippers on a Sunday at 5 o'clock. I brought my husband to places before where he doesn't want to be. It is a miserable experience.

Yes, it is. It is.

I don't want them to do something out of obligation. I want them to do it because they want to be there.

Agree. Totally agree. I want to jump into self-talk and I want to tell you why. The way that you talk to yourself inspires me, OK? I am just wondering if you can give us an example of self-love with your self-talk?

Yes. Well, self-talk is not always, I love you, you're amazing. Um, yes, I'm proud of you.

Yes.

The self-talk is you allow both to be there at the same time. It's kind of like you have— everyone has an inner bully. Everyone's trying to get the A+ in life. And so what I encourage parents to do is just go for the B-. And then that gives you that wiggle room because we're taught at a very young age to look outside of us for our worthy and our val— our worthiness and our value. So as a child, we're taught to look to our parents, look to our grades, look to our sports, look to band, always looking outside of us. You never have a 2-year-old that's suffering with poor self-esteem. They're not looking external. They know within themselves they are good enough, they are valuable, and they are worthy. They are rocking this life. And what happens over time, it's like, oh, well, maybe I'm not because I got a C. Oh my. So we start to question ourselves. Oh, I didn't get into that college or that guy broke up with me. And so it, it becomes more about external validation versus internal, internal validation. And so just as we're aware of that, that's important to be aware of it because you can have both at the same time. Because when I'm going to do the thing and I want to get the A+ and then I fail or someone says something negative or I miss the mark or I forget to find, you know, I, one day I forgot to bring my daughter's snack to the soccer game when she was like 4 and I was very unconscious. You would have thought I left her on the side of the road and put an adoption sign on her forehead because I beat myself up like I was the worst mother on the planet. I thought that that not bringing snack, well, all moms bring snack and that no one forgets snack. Like, how could you forget snack? This was my inner voice. Yes. Yes. So my friend, Tina Tice, I will never forget this. She is like, I want to do a challenge with you. Can you go 24 hours without complaining or being negative? I was like, of course I could. I see myself as a pretty positive person. So I went for 24 hours and I couldn't believe how positive I was on the outside, but how much I was beating myself up about all the things. Like, I can't believe you didn't do that. The dishwasher's still full. And how could you do that? And I get— you get your act together, Kelly. You just snapped at the kids. And it was like a constant barrage. I was like, holy cow. And so that's when we become conscious about our thinking. Then we're not living in the unconscious and repeating the same old, same old. And that's why it feels like Groundhog's Day. So I allow both of them to be at the same time. Like, if I'm— like, this morning I'm going for a run, and as I'm running, I'm going, you're so slow. You used to be so fast. Why aren't you fast like Samantha? You used to run a 6, 7-minute mile and now it is saying, because I have this little chime in my ear going how fast my mile is, it is 11 minutes. Are you kidding? You are so slow. You used to be a college athlete. I was like, this is insane. Get this off my back. Yes. I am like, oh my gosh, this is so crazy how the mind is because the brain has 60,000 thoughts a day and 80% of them will default to the negative without mind management. So, I just allowed the ego to be there. I am like, I see you, ego. I hear you. I love you. Don't beat me up. Just be kind. So it's almost like you allow the bully and you allow the ego to be in the car with you. But you're like, no, I'm going to be in the front seat. I'm going to talk nicer to myself as the bully is kind of tantruming in the back because we want to like erase them altogether. And if I could erase the bully, I would. But instead, I was replacing it with like, be proud of yourself, Kelly, you're out here, it's cold. Yeah, you know, you like running in the heat, like this is, you know, you're out here. And even if you're slow, you're still going and it's so hard to do and your knee hurts and you're still out here. So I was like having this inner battle. And so it's not even a battle. It's more like you allow them both to be at the same time versus like, leave me alone. Because what happens is the bully will come up and then we don't do anything. And I'm like, I'm talking to the bully. I'm like, listen, bully, listen. I call her, I call Edith my ego. I'm like, Edith, you need to be a little nicer. Okay, I'm out here busting my tail so we can feel good later on today. Yeah, just be a little gentler, please. And then my, my Kelly will be like, yeah, you tell her, you know. And so it's like It's almost like two siblings fighting. So I love this so much. Allow them both at the same time versus like, get rid of the bully. They never go away. I've tried it all. They don't go away. You just allow it and then you replace it with other things. And then you can kind of like laugh with the inner bully versus like fighting the bully back. Because when you fight the bully, they only get stronger. Because like Tony Robbins says, what we resist will only persist. So the more we fight the bully, yes, stronger the bully comes back with a— oh, you think you're slow? Oh yeah, you don't. You're really slow. You think you're, you think you're fast? Oh wait, I'm gonna trip you on this rock. And then you're like, oh, I'm such a dupe. So just being conscious of it and then allowing them both at the same time, I think is the best way to do it.

So important. And you were even, you were even saying to yourself in one of your podcasts, you were talking about how it's okay, Kelly, what are you afraid of?

Yes.

What's scaring you?

Yeah, I was like, yes, it's always for me, it's always fear-based.

It's always Nevity is always me being afraid of something. So what am I afraid of?

I remember I was, uh, my daughter was like, I don't know, 2 or 3, and she was at the daycare that I was at the school. And so I remember going out and watching her on the playground, and she was like 10:30 in the morning, she was still crying for me and David, my husband. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like, this chick's got to get her act together. Here I'm a counselor, my daughter had no emotional skills whatsoever, and she's following the teacher around and crying and up, up, up, and the teacher's like, no, and the friends are coming over and they're asking, Lily, you want to play? You want to play? And she's like, no, I want my mommy and I want up and I want— she was going up, up, up. And I'm watching through the window and the unconscious thought that came through my mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, she's never going to go to prom. That literally crossed my brain and she's 2 years old. But it was all unconscious. I didn't even know. And so when I would pick her up, I'd be like, listen, when you're on the playground, you go play with the other kids. I was like lecturing her about it. And she was like— so it made it even worse. I was adding gas to the flames. I wanted her to be happy and the more unhappy she was, the more I made her never want to be happy. I remember going, listen, we are the Happy Hutchisons. You will be happy. And I remember her at 3 years old going, I don't want to be the Happy Hutchisons. And I was like, what is wrong with you, girl? But what I was doing is I was forcing her to be happy. And so she was walking around like a, like a, like she was walking on eggshells. I have to be happy. So when these emotions came up, they came up even harder because she was trying to hold it in. I want to please. I want to please. And she was like a nervous wreck. She was scared of her own shadow. I always said she wanted to climb back in my uterus if she could.

Yeah.

And so the more I allowed it, I'm like, oh, and then I taught her skills of what to do when you're feeling tricky emotions. I call them tricky emotions. I don't even call them negative emotions. You're going to feel these tricky emotions. So here are some strategies of teaching them during the calm waters. Because a lot of times we want to teach in consequence during the red zone. That is a bad idea. I only know because I did it for so many years. And when I taught reading to my first graders, I would practice independently. That's reading literacy. The same thing works when we're teaching our kids about emotional literacy. We have to teach them in a large group, like when we're at Chuck E. Cheese. We have to teach them in the small group, and that's where role-playing comes in. And then they're going to have hours and hours upon hours of practicing, whether it's striking out, whether it's falling down, whatever it is. Like, just how we teach, like, we were trying to help them with their physical pain. Like, if they fall off their bike, we're not gonna be like, go to your room and calm down till you relax. We are going to be like, here is the Band-Aid, here is the Neosporin. We are going to rinse it out with some water. This might sting a little. So, we are teaching them over time. So now, when my kids get hurt, they know where the Band-Aids are. They know. So, we are teaching them those strategies so they can kind of self-soothe a little bit when they fall off their bike and they skin their knee. They are not running to us. Now they are running to the Band-Aids and they know what to do. So, we are empowering them with skills of what to do when you have a tricky emotion.

I love it. Tricky emotion. I am going to use that.

Yeah, and we have them too. I have tricky emotions every day, every, every day, multiple times a day. Yes. So, and so the more we can normalize it, the less they're going to feel like something's wrong with them.

Yes. So you were a teacher and you know what's going on right now with, I don't know about your children, but my children are doing remote learning.

I have one doing, I have one of each, one doing remote and one in face-to-face.

Okay. So what parents are complaining to me most is the challenges that they are having with remote learning.

Mm-hmm.

I am wondering if you have any tips for me and everyone else whose kids are struggling.

Yes, it is a very, very tricky, uncharted territory right now for all of us. And I think the more empathy and compassion we can have for our kids, that they have to— like, as hard as it is for us to adjust, it's just as hard, if not harder, for our kids to adjust because they see us out of alignment. And they see us panicking and they see us freaking out or they see us losing our jobs or whatever it is, they don't know what to do about any of this because they've never been through any of this. So they just were like, they're kind of following our lead. And I always use the example of in this moment, life is very turbulent. And so with the remote learning, they're at school, whatever the situation is, we have to pretend like we're on a turbulent airplane. And when we're ever on a turbulent airplane, the first thing we do as passengers is we look to the flight attendant. And the flight attendant's face, he or she, will tell us, is this a reason to panic? Is the plane going down? Or is this just we hit some bumpy clouds? So we are the flight attendant for our kids during these turbulent times because they're looking to us first to see, is everything okay? Is this going down? Is this a crash landing? What's happening? So they're looking to us first and then they're going to mirror back our energy. And it's okay for them to be upset just like we're upset. Yeah, and I think the more we allow it, the less it happens. It is kind of like on the way to school today, the more I allowed those emotions for my son, the less he had them. And not that we want them to go away, but we kind of build connection during those times and we are like, I know this is hard. When someone says to you, I know this is hard, that is so, it is like Neosporin to the wound. The other day I was out with a girlfriend and she is very ill. And so being with her is hard to be with her because I see how ill she is. And I have so much compassion. I am so sad for her and I feel so helpless. And so when I came home for our lunch, my husband was like, you seem kind of quiet. Is everything OK? And I said, it is just really hard to be and see and face to face because I know the problems. But when I am at lunch, I can see it firsthand. So it is really hard to be around. And all he said was, I bet that is hard. And I was like, oh my gosh. And, you know, he could have been like, well, at least you are going to lunch with her. Well, that is so nice. You know, and he didn't try to make it better. He just like, I bet that is hard. It's hard. And those 3 words, I was like, thank you for holding the space. He's like, I'm just saying, I think that would be hard to be around. You know, he's like, he doesn't do this work. And so he's not really getting it. But I'm like, that felt so good to me. Yes. He said that. He's like, okay, you know, and he didn't really get what he was doing. But what he was doing is he was allowing me— I wasn't okay. And he was allowing me to not be okay. And we have to get comfortable seeing our kids uncomfortable and teaching them during those moments that yes, this is hard. It's supposed to be hard. And we are in this together. Just like this morning with my son, I was like, I got your back. We are going to figure this out. I don't even know what the answer is. I didn't know where to drop him off for late. Do I go in? I am in my running gear. I have a knee brace. Like, this is embarrassing. I go, this is embarrassing for me too. So, we will both be embarrassed together. Yeah. It was such a connective thing, but it was such a meltdown moment. I had to do all the steps because what I wanted to say is chill out, calm down, you are overreacting. But think about if I called you and I have had a tough day or you called me and you have had a tough day and I am like, Listen, you need to calm down. You are overreacting. Act your age. You will be like, I am not going to be calling you again. But when a friend says to you, I know how you feel. I had a day like that last week. That totally stinks. You are just like, let's go have some coffee. You feel so connected to that friend and they have done absolutely nothing. So, we can give that same gift to our kids and what happens is the children will then see you as being on their side and they won't be so combative. My daughter was so combative. She was— I would label her strong-willed, explosive, like all the things. I wouldn't label her as any of those things. But the reason why is she didn't feel like I was on her side because I was always trying to happy her up. And if we can know that our kids don't need to be happy all the time and that's okay, then they put their fists down and they're like palms up and they're like, okay, you're on my side and you've got my back. And so that is a very connective way to parent. And then the children know that I'm allowed to feel all the feels. Yeah, I'm not allowed to hit my brother or sister or throw things, but like, let's learn some other strategies.

Makes so much sense. So much sense. Can you tell everyone about your parenting boot camp?

Oh, sure. So I started, I found this work when she was 5 and he was 3, and now they're 10 and 12. So when I found this work, you literally would have thought Ed McMahon came to my house and I won a million dollars because I was so excited to figure it out and bridge that gap between who I was and who I wanted to be. Like, Again, I am always B- every single day. That is what I shoot for and that is taking that pressure off me has helped me immensely because I wanted to be the A+ parent and I was failing miserably at being the A+ parent. I was getting like D's and F's. Like, I wasn't even on the honor roll. It was bad. So, I started sharing little by little and I also help people lose weight. So, when I was helping them lose weight, I am like, what is under the emotional eating? Like, what is stressing you out? What is causing all this ajda? They are like, my kids. My husband, I am like, oh, I can help with that. So, I started sharing this in bits and pieces and then people were losing weight because they weren't so emotionally drained by their kids. So, I started to share things little by little and then I was getting all these emails like, what was that strategy? What was that Tattle Box? What was that book? What was that? So, I was like, all right, I need to put this in some type of format, in an organized format. I did it for 30 days of like the top things that I am asked on my email. So, for 30 days we spend focusing on the mom, not from a place of guilt and shame and I'm not good enough, but from a place of like, you are more than good enough. You are like the perfect parent for this child and you have the perfect child for you as a parent. They are here to teach you how to grow. So I spend 30 days with the parent. I have been doing it for now 7 or 8 years. It is so much fun. My kids come in, they'll be like, I was freaking out and this is what helped me. My mom was freaking out and this is how I helped her. So we're all like in this together. And so every month I run a Parenting Bootcamp on Facebook. That you can show up, you can be a fly on the wall, husbands can do it, or you can be as engaged as you want to be just to kind of get this teaching in small doses versus all at once.

Love it. Everyone needs the parenting boot camp.

Oh my gosh, you're so sweet.

What else do you want to share that I did not think to ask you?

I love sharing this work. And so I started a podcast called Harmony in the Home. And it's all about imperfect parenting, imperfect kids. And I tell them every single day, my kids, and I tell all the parents that I help. We are all flawed and we're all awesome and we're all flossom. I didn't come up with that term, but I love the term. It's kind of—

love it—

of that, the 50/50, because I think we all— like, with the Christmas cards are coming in, the holiday cards are coming in, and we see all these perfect families and we see it and we're like, oh my gosh, I'm doing it wrong. This is insane. I'm failing as a mom. Look, they seem so much happier than we are. So then we get into compare and despair and we're like, no, everybody's doing the very best job that they can, including our kids. And all our kids want is a happy parent and all the parents want are happy kids. So like, yes, just get comfortable with everybody being uncomfortable. Life will be so much easier and you will start to have harmony in the home. And that's why I call the podcast— my husband actually came up with the name because our stress level in our home before was like an 8 or a 9. It would like dip down to a 1 or a 2, like when we're reading the books. And now it's like a 1 or a 2 and it will bounce up to an 8 or 9, but it doesn't stay there that long because we know that it's part of the human experience. So we don't add gas to the flames. And so I love sharing all of this on a deeper level on the podcast called Harmony in the Home. And there's different topics based on what you're struggling with. And I think we're on like episode like 80, which is insane in the membrane. It's the scariest thing. Every time I sit down, I'm in front of the microphone. I'm like, I don't want to do this. This is so scary. I don't want to do this. It's like jumping out of a plane because it's such a hard thing to talk about because I don't— I know parents beat themselves up enough, so I don't want them to listen to the podcast and be like, Oh, more reason to beat myself up. More reason I'm failing.

No, no, you are doing awesome. Yeah, you're doing awesome. You make me feel so understood when I listen to you. Where else can they go to find you besides your podcast?

I'm on Facebook and Instagram as Kelly Hutchison, H-U-T-C-H-E-S-O-N. Everyone wants to throw an N in the middle.

I did.

I did the same thing.

I'm so sorry.

It's okay. My maiden name was Stout. So you think like I went from Stout to Hutchinson. I'm like, David, this name isn't really working for me. Maybe you should change your last name to Stout. Because it's— nobody misspells Stout.

I misspelled it.

Yeah, I've been married 20 years and I'm still getting used to spelling it because everyone spells it wrong. So it's completely normal. But the way that you feel so understood by the podcast is because you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm not alone. This is normal. Yes, it's the same gift I want to give to the kids of like, you're not alone. This is normal. You're allowed to feel human emotions. And now we're going to teach you what to do with those human emotions and those tricky emotions because it's part of the human experience. Because our four walls, they're going to be in our home for 940 Saturdays between the time they're born and grown and flown. So in those 18 years or how many ever years it is, we want to teach them about emotional literacy more than anything else because that's going to help them do all the things that we want for them. You know, if we want them to go to college or get the grades or get the sports or whatever it is, in those achievements that they're going after, they're going to feel all those tricky emotions. So why not normalize it as early and as often as possible? So then when they are going after their things, whatever they are, whatever they decide they are, then they're like, oh, this is part of the process, failing forward. Oh, this, I've done this before. Okay. This is normal. Then they're not like, oh my gosh, something's gone wrong. I gotta be, and I'm not good enough. Cause that's their biggest fear. Yes.

Well, I have to tell you, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for your time.

Anytime. I'm always welcome. I would always love to come back. I love talking about this stuff.

Oh, awesome. Well, we will, we will do this again.

Yes, I would love that.

This is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast, reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC.

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