The Whinypaluza Podcast with Rebecca Greene Episode 011 Peace and Parenting.

No need to whine, it's Whiny Palooza! Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza Podcast with Rebecca Green. Welcome to the Whiny Palooza Podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family. Hello everyone, welcome to the Whiny Palooza podcast. This is Rebecca Green. I am so excited to have Michelle Kenney with us. Welcome, Michelle.

Hi, how are you?

I'm good. I'm, I'm going to read this fabulous bio. Michelle Kenny lives in Los Angeles with her two girls, ages 9 and 12. Before becoming a Hand in Hand certified instructor in 2015, she worked for 12 years in public schools as a teacher and counselor. She also served as an adjunct professor in the Department of Education, instructing in the teacher credentialing program. None of which prepared her to be a mom. After years of consequences, bribes, and star charts, she found Hand in Hand Parenting created by Patty Wipfler. It reshaped the relationship she shares with her daughters, and she credits it with changing her life. That's amazing. Well, I want to hear about Hand in Hand Parenting. Can you tell us what that is?

Yeah, I'd be happy to. So Hand in Hand Parenting is based in the idea of connection and that we rely on the connection we share with our children as opposed to relying on threats, bribes, punishments, yelling, and all these manipulations that kind of conventional parenting has told us work. And when we, we focus on the relationship, we get behavior that's organic and we get cooperation that is organic and we get a better relationship with our kids and then we have a happier household.

That sounds wonderful.

It's not easy.

Well, it's not easy, but it sounds like a much softer approach, which fits with my style. And how did you find Hand in Hand Parenting?

I was at a— I was a parent at a school down the street from our house, and my daughter was in kindergarten. And I went to a retreat that was focusing on being a facilitator in schools for council, just how, you know, kids would sit in circle and they would talk with one another and we would, you know, discuss feelings and whatnot. And I was becoming a facilitator and we were sitting in circle sharing and everybody was going around and sharing about their kid. And I went— they came to me and I just started bawling because things were really hard at home. The girls were fighting really badly. I wasn't— I was trying to, you know, punish and time out and do everything I could to control everything. And I was totally out of control. And so I just started crying. And after the meeting, one woman came up and she said, have you tried Hand in Hand Parenting? I have a really great coach. And I said, I don't care what it is. You need to send me her. And I'm just going to do it. I didn't research it. I didn't do anything. I just hired this woman because I was so lost.

Yeah.

And she helped me change my life.

That is so amazing. So you changed— so it changed your parenting. Can you give us an example of parenting your children differently with Hand in Hand Parenting, like a success that you've had?

So one thing that was really difficult years ago was the fighting between my daughters. And my, you know, they're 3 years apart, and so my older daughter would do things to bother my younger daughter. We— this is like Classic, right? In every household.

Yes.

So I would come in immediately and reprimand my older daughter. Don't do that to your sister. How could you? Go to timeout. You know, I'm taking away your, your park time. I'm taking away this. No TV, blah, blah, blah. Because I was so upset because she was hurting her little sister and I just didn't know what else to do because that's what my parents would have done.

Right.

So the more I did that, the angrier she became at both her sister and I. This isn't always the case, but this might be the case for kids who are super strong-willed or who do not want to be manipulated. And in her personality, it came out that she was just going to do it more and be more obstinate.

I have one of those.

And it's a hard kid to parent.

Yes. Yes.

And I'm one of those. So, you know, like it was a, you know, a fighting of the wills. I was going to out-will her. And yes, I did it. I couldn't out-will her because she was strong and she was taking me down. And so she just continued. And it got so bad that I tell this story often. The girls were in the pool and they were both swimmers, but Esme decided she was going to hold her sister under the water.

Oh gosh.

And I was like, oh, I think someone might die on my watch here. It's not good. This is prior to that meeting I just told you about.

Yeah, we don't want that to happen.

No, so I went in with my clothes because I was so scared and pulled my little one out and yelled at, of course, my older one. So when I stopped yelling and reprimanding and coming with shame and embarrassing her, when I could just be neutral and come in and say, hey, what happened, guys? What's going on? Because often this older child, not often, but sometimes they're provoked, or sometimes something that has— is, is longstanding. You know, these sibling relationships are long relationships, and something that happened today might be a result of 3 things that happened 3 days ago. So I don't know what she's really doing. I don't know what's really going on. All I see is this, you know, 2-minute snapshot. So if we come in with neutrality, we say, hey, what happened? "Esme, what happened? What's going on, honey?" "Well, she's being mean to me and she always takes my dolls and ex—" "Oh, she does, she? Okay, I understand." "Pia, what happened?" "I took her doll because she took my doll yesterday." "Oh, did you? Okay, I get it. Guess what, guys? The rule in the house is nobody takes dolls." So we're coming in and instead of shaming, embarrassing, reprimanding, whatever, we're coming in with neutrality. We're saying, "This is the rule, guys. I'm not going to embarrass anyone." And then it started to de-escalate Esme because she didn't feel as if she was being attacked so much. Now, it didn't happen overnight. It took weeks of doing it, but it worked.

Well, and you are making me think because I am laughing at myself as you are talking. I was just walking my dog and when I was walking my dog, my daughters were texting me and Ella says, "Lily slapped me." And I was like, I am just trying to walk literally around the block. I was going around the block and I was like, oh my God. So I come home and I'm steaming because I can't even walk around the block and I'm like, "Lily!" That's right. "Why would you slap your sister?" That's right. And that's what we do. Yes. And then she got mad and I could have handled that totally differently. I know. So you're showing me, you're reminding me that I need to stay calm and actually find out what happened.

Yes, but it's hard because in the moment you just want it to stop. Yes, and I think that's the thing that's different about this parenting method is that we're not so focused on the behavior, but we're focused on the why is the behavior, and that there's a deeper thing going on, and that our kids aren't just jerks. They really aren't. They're not. They're just having a hard time. They're not regulating, and they're young, and they're inexperienced, and they're immature, but we have to be the mature. Yes. Calm.

But that's hard. Yes, and I do try every single day. Every single day. Can you tell us what you like best about what you do?

I love helping parents make connections, not just with their kids, but just like make connections to this method, like find meaning in connection, find meaning in letting go of punishments, find meaning in living a different way. And a lot of times parents will use this stuff with adults because it's just a way to be with people. Yeah, you know, it's listening and it's understanding and it's giving people space to be heard and all those good things.

All the good things. Can you tell us about a successful client without using names?

Yes, I've— so I think every, every client I've had has been successful in one way or another. Um, but I— one that sticks out for me right now, I don't know why, is I worked with a family who had a 14-year-old child, and this child they said had oppositional defiant behavior and was ADHD and had been arrested because he was violent and just a lot of things. And she just said I want to, I don't know what else to do. Can you help me? And I think I said, I think I can. I don't know if I can, you know, he's 14 and it's hard, but let's try. And so we worked together for 8 weeks. And then actually, she worked another 4 weeks with me. But we started with the idea of like, let's just get connected to him. Let's get connected to him. And let's let all the punishments go. And it was really hard for her. So we let the punishments go and he went a little haywire at first. But then she said, he won't connect with me. He won't let me in his room. He doesn't want me to talk to him. He's totally pushing me away. And I said, just stick, don't give up. Just keep going in there. Keep going in there. Keep asking him, keep begging him to be with you. Finally, on week 3, he said, fine, I'll hang out with you. And from week 3 on, they created this connection where they became friends again. And he was able to regulate. And he had— he still, you know, had his issues, but she was able to come alongside of him and just be there for him while he was having his issues, as opposed to, you know, shaming him through it. And so she totally turned the whole thing around.

That is so special and amazing that you could help them. Yeah, it was. I'm so glad because he was headed down a negative path. So, yeah, I am glad that you could intervene and help them. I mean, she did all the hard work.

It was just, I just coached her. She did the work, which that is the other thing. It is like part of my work is like I can coach people, but it is still really hard work and you got to get in there and do it. I am right there with you, but it is like, it is not easy sometimes.

Well, and the thing that you said, I think it is the key to success. In every single facet of our life. As you said, don't give up, keep trying, keep going. And I think if we all do that all the time, we will find our success.

I agree. I totally agree. Even with doing this work, like, I had people who were like, I don't believe in this, it's dumb, it's this and that. Or people didn't want to pay, you know, they're like, I'm not paying you, I'll do it for free. And I was just like, I'm just gonna keep going, I can do it.

Yes, yes you can. Yes. Well, and I, when I was reading about you, you help with so many different parenting issues. Can you tell everyone like the gamut? There's like a huge list of problems that you help with.

I mean, I think sleep is a big one for people. Um, you know, a lot of kids are sleeping in the parent's bed or won't go to sleep or the mom's sleeping with the kid and the dad's sleeping with a different kid and like a lot of sleep issues. We've got like musical beds going on a lot of times. There's a lot of sleep stuff. Eating— kids don't want to eat. Why? They do not want to eat. They don't want to brush their teeth. I think cooperation is a big one. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like how to get your kids to cooperate without manipulating them. That's a big one. I think that's probably my number one thing. School stuff. A lot of school things I can help with, and I was a teacher, so I kind of have good insights with the with the communication and whatnot. It's a good combo. Yeah, it is. Potty training, there's a lot of good things around potty training. Defiance, I think just kind of anything, anything that comes up, connection is the answer for everything. That is so good to know.

I'm laughing listening to you talk about the revolving beds because I hear my friends describe that and I don't take any success for it. It is my husband, he loves— I mean, not that I don't love to sleep, we both love to sleep. And he's like, there's no one in our bed. There's no kids, there's no pets. The dog can't sleep with us. Lily can't sleep with us. And he's so firm and consistent. And I'm like, whatever.

That's how I was. I was like, oh, right.

So he's the, he's the reason why there's nobody in our bed. I mean, it's tough.

It's hard to do it all. It really is a lot to ask. Being a parent, I think, is the biggest ask there is because you have to be everything for this child or children. You have to be their, you know, support, emotional support and physical support, and to make sure they don't die, make sure they eat. Like, it's like, it's a big deal.

It's the hardest job we can ever have and the most rewarding job we can ever have. Yeah, I was looking, I was looking back at baby pictures, which I shouldn't do because I was crying and I was like, but it was so hard. I was like, I should just be happy that, I mean, it's harder in a different way now, but, um, I do miss my babies.

Me too. And I see those things pop up and it's like 2012. I'm like, no, no, don't torture me.

I know, I know, I agree. Now, um, for everyone listening, can you help people virtually? Remotely? Can they sign up to do this online with you?

That's pretty much 99.9% of my business is on Zoom. It even was before this pandemic. And so I see people all over the world, really. That's fabulous. And I also have, you know, online courses that you can take that are just yours in perpetuity. You do it, do them on your own. I don't know when this airs, but I have one out right now called How to Stop Yelling. It's just a little tiny mini course that you can take, but I'm gonna be out for a couple of weeks. Um, but I always have something coming out. I have group— okay, online group things, um, group meetings, support groups, all kinds of stuff. My— that's fabulous. Good. And my— I have like free resources on my Linktree, on my Instagram, lots of good things you can get. I have a private Facebook group you can get in. Wow.

Okay. Lots of good stuff. Can we talk about the pandemic in your own parenting? I hate it all. How have you— how do you think you've adjusted your parenting with everything that we're dealing with right now?

I mean, I think I've let go even more and I've just said like, anything goes. Here. I don't know, you know, if you're late with your homework, so what? Yeah, yeah. You want to go to third period, don't go. Like, we need to be kind to one another and kind to each other. And I'm not holding my kids to task so much, and it's helped. And I'm not holding myself to task. Like I told you, I woke up right before this. I'm so glad. I love hearing that. I love that. Brush my hair. Please do not put any video up.

I mean I'll tell my husband no video.

I just like, I, I've let go to a lot of degree and, and that's helped me maintain my sanity because it's too hard to parent everyone all day long.

All day long, 7 days a week, no breaks.

Yeah. And so it's like we have, you know, a lot of movie nights and we do a lot of You know, we do a lot of whatever you want to do.

Are your kids full-time virtual right now?

My— both of my girls are 7 hours on Zoom.

Too much.

And they're super academic schools, and these people are not slowing up. That's why I'm like, "Well, you don't want to go on Friday, don't go on Friday." I'm with you.

Yeah. So, so part of your coping is that you're being more flexible in your parenting.

Yeah. And more flexible with myself. Yes. Yes. I can sleep in. I can, you know, not work out today. I can just stay home in my pajamas. I don't need to do everything.

What are, what are you finding for yourself right now to enjoy for yourself, to make yourself feel better?

I've been, it's interesting.

I took up tennis, which is very— That's wonderful.

Interesting. I'm not good, but I'm trying. But it's fun, right? It's fun. I'm outside. You can play it everywhere. And I've been hiking a lot. There's a lot of good hiking trails in LA. You know, I was a huge yogi and yoga went kaput. So I've just refound myself that I like to get outside. Now I try to go outside once a day and do an activity. Yes.

Yes. Me too. I totally agree with that. Yeah. I don't want it to snow. I know. Poor you. I'm sorry. I need to live where you live.

Yes. Then you can do something outside every day.

Yes. Yes, I will still be walking my dog in the snow, but I don't enjoy it.

Get those snowshoes or whatever. Can you do that? That's great.

That's actually a great idea. I do not have snowshoes yet.

But those are— that could be your new thing. That could be my new thing.

What would you say that your biggest challenge is right now?

Hmm, as a parent?

Just in general.

Wow, that's a big question. Um, I think my— I'm gonna talk as a parent. Because actually in my bio is wrong. My kids are 15. What? And 12.

Okay, that's— well, it's an old bio.

That's my fault. My website's being updated as we speak, but I just haven't done any. I haven't. So they're 15 and 12. They're 15 and 12. So I think my biggest challenge is finding ways to connect with them because we were on this like connection train, you know, like we did special time every day and they wanted to be with me and we played and we got on the trampoline and we blah blah blah did it all. Yes, yes. And now they're like, I'm gonna go in my room. And I would, I'm thinking to myself, oh, I'm coming too. And they're like shutting the door on me. Like, no, you're not. I'm like, what about me? But what about me? You know, like begging.

I know.

Oh, I just keep trying and I don't give up and I'm always there asking. And today, like, for instance, usually go in the morning to my oldest room and I say, "Hi, how are you?" And she's already on in class at 7:30 AM. Oh, I just waved to her and she gets herself up. She does everything, but I just waved to her and say hi. Today they didn't have school and I opened the door and she's like, "Oh, come in, come in, come in." And I was like, "Yes, I did it." A success, right? So that's my challenge is getting connected to my older girls.

Oh, how I understand that so well.

How old are yours?

So Max is 13, Ella's 11, and Lily's 8. And the 8-year-old still thinks I'm wonderful and wants to do everything with me. So I still, I'm going to cherish it because, you know, it's going to fade away.

My 15-year-old's starting to kind of circle back a little bit.

That's good. I, I'm finding that I like 13 better than 11. There's something with age 11 with my kids and the moodiness and the hormonalness.

And 12, 11 is— yeah, yeah, yeah.

13 is better so far.

14, 15 are better too. Oh yay, thank you for telling me that. 12 is by far the hardest.

It's like 2 and 12. Yes, yes, I can agree with that. What, what would you say is the best advice you've ever gotten?

Don't take it personally. I love that. Yeah, it's not about us even though we think it is.

I think that's fabulous and I try to remember that and they're usually upset, my kids are usually upset about something that has nothing to do with me.

That's exactly right.

And they just are taking it out on me.

That's exactly right. I think the same. I think the exact same. And if you get in that mindset, I think the other good piece of advice that I like to give, and I've received too, is that they're not, you know, they're not trying to be unkind. They really aren't. I just think positively of them. They're good people. Yes. They're good beings. They, they want to be good.

I love that. You, you love your girls. You can tell they're very lucky.

Thank you. I do. They drive me nuts, but I love them.

I know, I know. You know, some days I have to say, some days go smooth and some days I'm like, get me out of here. No, I want to go to Hawaii. Oh, I dream of doing that one day. Yeah, so fun. So fun. What would you say that you would love to share that I haven't asked you?

It's just as easy to come with connection as it is to come with a punishment.

I'm gonna remember that.

It really is just as easy. I actually think in reality it's easier.

Yes, I don't want to punish them. I don't like it. I don't enjoy it. I don't want to enforce it. I don't want to make them sad.

No, and, and it just damages the relationship we share with them and makes them angry with us, and it doesn't keep them from doing the thing that we think it's going to keep them from doing. No, it doesn't work. We wouldn't keep—

we wouldn't have to keep doing it. I, I will tell you something. I tried— it started out with my son, and I was trying so hard to discipline him, and I was like, why isn't this working? And then something snapped in my head and I was like, he wants to please me. When I give him, if I give him a reward or if I tell him he can earn something or if I do something that is positive, he will do pretty much anything for me. If I discipline him, it is almost like he is like, well, screw you.

But rewards are discipline.

Rewards are discipline, huh?

There's a book by Alfie Cohen called Punished by Rewards. Interesting. Rewards are a punishment. So, you can edit this out if you want, but—

Oh, no, I love this. I love learning. I learn something new every day.

You have a child that you're rewarding, so you're telling them, you, if you do this, I'll give you the carrot, right? Yeah. Now they're extrinsically motivated. Yes. They're doing it because they want to receive the carrot. They don't care about what they're doing. They care about the carrot.

It's true.

What we want them to do is intrinsically want to do the task because they want to do the task because we're so connected that we don't have to reward them. The times when we don't reward them, they'll feel punished then because they didn't get a reward. So then they'll start to feel bad. And there's no better way to diminish the significance of a task than to give a child a reward around it.

That is interesting. And, you know, my children— I know how much my children love me, and I know how much— I know how connected they feel, and I know they see how hard I'm working, so I know they want to please me.

You don't need the rewards. Yeah, you really don't, because you already have the connection. Yeah, it's just that we want the immediate response. We want them to do it, we want them to do it now, but if we, if we're patient and if we cultivate this connection piece, they will do it.

It always comes down to my impatience, and I want you to know that one of my greatest lessons that I, I will tell you I have not succeeded, but I keep trying, is that I need more patience in every single area of my life.

We all do, right? Yes. And some people have it. Yes, some people have it. I don't have it. Not, not, not, not organically. No, no. But I think we can teach ourselves that. We can rewire our brains into being patient and that this is a long journey, this parenting stuff. You don't need to get them to learn and understand and do everything right now. No. And they're going to screw up. Yes. They're going to mess up and not every mess up needs to be rewarded or punished. Completely agree. It can just be what it is. That book is really good though. He's like my guru. I'm in love with him. Tell me the book again. The author's Alfie Cohen. He's an educator out of New York State. Okay. And he— the book is called Punished by Rewards and he also has Positive Parenting. Or no, sorry, Unconditional Parenting. I love those titles, are awesome.

I'm going to check that out.

Really good. Yeah, it's all about A's and praise and homework, and he's lovely, and everything is research-based. And so he has the research to back up everything he says.

Sounds like great books.

They're both good.

Can you tell everyone where to go to find you? You listed a lot of things. Let's give them the details.

Let's see, I'm, um, PeaceandParentingLA.com, that's my website. Okay. Peace and Parenting on Instagram, on Facebook, and then Peace and Parenting Private Community on Facebook. My podcast is also Peace and Parenting everywhere on iTunes and Spotify. I can't wait to find it. Yeah, it's good. And then I have a Linktree too that's Peace and Parenting. Everything's Peace and Parenting. Okay, Peace and Parenting.

I will remember that and I'm gonna go find you everywhere. Yay! And I want you to know how wonderful it was to meet you and talk to you today.

Thank you so much for having me on.

This was lovely. Thank you. This is Rebecca Green reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving. Thank you for tuning in to the Winey Palooza podcast. If you like what you heard, please be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. While you are there, leave a review. I love to hear your feedback. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This show has been produced by Market Domination LLC. To discover how you can have your own show completely done for you and turn it into a real published book and become the authority in your marketplace, go to www.marketdominationllc.com/podcastoffer.