The Whinypaluza Podcast with Rebecca Greene Episode 058 Advocating for Learning Disabilities

No need to whine, it's Whiny Palooza! Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza podcast with Rebecca Green.

Welcome to the Whiny Palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

This is Rebecca Green for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am so excited to have Patti Deder with me today. She is a neurodivergent author and advocate who educates and provides resources that are impactful to individuals looking for guidance on an engaging neurodiverse platform. She is the CEO of Sensing Greatness, which will be publishing her book about a goat with ADHD this year. She has also been a physical therapist assistant for almost a decade and works closely with all therapy departments. Patti, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here and talk with you.

I'm excited to have you, and I'm gonna jump in because I know what everybody is thinking right now, so I'm going to ask it. What does neurodivergent mean?

So, ner— so there's a lot of different, uh, neuro terms out there. There's neurodiversity, there's neurodivergent. Um, so neurodivergent is the individual itself that had their brain functions a little differently. So it could be ADHD, dyslexia, autism. There's a whole gamut of them. There's quite a few. Um, and then neurodiversity is just the whole inclusive group of everybody.

Okay, so I am embarrassed to tell you that you're introducing me to that term. I had to look it up. Oh, when I was, when I was reading about you, I was like, oh, what does this mean? So thank you for explaining that. Can you tell us how you got started helping neurodivergent people?

So I was diagnosed with ADHD like 20 years ago, but really didn't do much with it. Kind of back then there wasn't a lot of resources about it, so kind of just put it in my pocket for later. And then as I had kids and my son started getting different diagnosis, then it just kind of woke this advocate up inside me to try to get him the right resources, the right remediation, the right accommodations set in place. So I started just advocating for him and then families would reach out to me and say, "How did you get that in place? They're not giving that to me." So I'd help give them like keywords to use and what accommodations may be most impactful for them. And their child and stuff.

Well, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but we know that there are parents listening who are currently trying to advocate for their kids. Can you give them your two cents on, you know, something put in place that is working well or some words that you use that were super impactful? What would you tell the parents listening?

So probably the biggest accommodation that people have the hardest time getting is full teacher notes. A lot of— and so I'm going to base this on people already have an IEP or 504 in place. So let's say you're trying to get those full teacher notes and you bring it up, and if there's any pushback, any— it's important to know why there's pushback. So in a meeting, bring up, okay, so what, what's the problem with the full teacher notes? Is there— and a lot of times they're going to say that— they may not say this in these words, but people think it's cheating to get these full teacher notes, and it's not at all. It's an appropriate accommodation to put in place for people to get, because if someone is having, you know, written expression difficulties or anything where they're, they're struggling to take those notes as the teacher is talking, it's a perfect accommodation to get in place. And then the, you know, the kid can have those notes and they can even highlight certain aspects as a teacher goes on. So they're still listening and paying attention. They can even, you know, some kids like to doodle as they listen to the notes too because it helps them with the any, if they have fidgeting or anything, sometimes doodling can help.

Yeah.

Um, so it's a perfectly acceptable accommodation to get. So I know that a lot of people have a hard time getting that one. And there is, um, so excuse me, One of the things we use is called FAPE, so F-A-P-E. So it helps like protect the child so they will receive accommodations put in place to keep them kind of at a grade level. And so that's an accommodation that's going to let that kid be at grade level with the rest of its peers. Because without those notes, and if that kid's trying to write stuff down and keep on task with everybody else, they may fall behind and then not even know what's going on in the class as they're trying to pay attention to the teacher.

You're bringing up so many things, and I think that teachers are wonderful, and I think that psychologists and social workers are wonderful. I'm not discounting them when I say this, but what I'm hearing from you is that we know our kids the best. We, we know what they're struggling with, and I think that what parents don't realize is we're their best advocate. And I love that you have figured out how how to help your son succeed. That's wonderful. Yes. And helping others. So let's move on to Sensing Greatness. Can you tell us about Sensing Greatness and the resources that you provide?

Um, so at this time, because I just started doing this this year in 2021, so at this time we're providing resources. Like, I have pretty massive accommodations list that I've put together, either accommodations that worked for, um, one of my kids or just came from the top of my brain. So some of them are very unique to things that came up from my ADHD brain that they may not see elsewhere. And so I have those accommodation lists. I have, um, a bunch of different resources in place too, like a sensory diet, because sometimes kids that become overwhelmed or need help with calming they may need nutrients within their own body as well, their whole sensory systems. So sometimes providing a sensory, kind of like an overview of different things that they may work on to help them kind of calm and find what may work for them. Like if they're really getting upset, maybe something like working with, you know, having a schedule set in place. So maybe at 9 AM they do something related to, um, smell. So they do like aromatherapy. And then maybe if they're getting overwhelmed at noon, they could do something related to, uh, interoception, because maybe they're not aware they need to use the bathroom. Because sometimes kids do have difficulty regulating using the restroom and stuff. So sometimes they may even need a schedule to use the restroom. So that's something that can help to put in place as well, this sensory diet.

You're teaching me a lot. Can you tell us about— can you tell— well, I don't have ADHD and I don't think my kids do, so I am, I am learning. Um, tell me about yourself because I know you'd— you have ADHD. What helps you? What are you finding helpful for yourself?

Well, I will say thank God for technology because it is so helpful. In one aspect, it could be a total debilitating thing. It really can. But in the other aspect, it really is something that is is so impactful and helps so much. So I am very thankful for technology because I have so many alarms on my phone set for everything because I, I will forget everything. Even going to the grocery store to get certain things, I have to set alarms to remember to get certain things from the grocery store.

I, I need to learn to do that. You know, I just figured out how to alert myself. I wasn't looking at my phone enough and I was forgetting things. And my friend was like, I have alarms set. And I was like, I didn't know you could do that.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

And you can set like weekly reminders too. So like every— it repeats every week certain stuff as well. And every year, like birthdays, put that in your calendar. So, and then repeat it every year.

Oh my gosh.

See?

Okay. I'm not doing that.

And I love speech to text. I use all the time too. I love speech to text.

Oh yes. Yes. You know what? My fingers get tired of texting, as silly as that sounds. So that's part of why I use it, even though they screw up what I'm saying.

Oh yeah. Yeah. But even Google Docs, Docs, if you're on your computer, you can just type, click on the microphone and just speak and it will just type things for you too. So it's really handy for that too.

I haven't tried that. So you're figuring out what works best for your brain as well.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. That's awesome. Tell us about your very cool book that's coming out.

So this is how it all started. Um, I had this idea, and this is not what the book is now because it's kind of like has changed over time because that's how ADHD works. Things change over time. It's nothing, never stays the same.

Okay.

Yeah, so if you want some, uh, you know, some fun in your life, date someone who has ADHD. Things are always going to change. They're going to keep it real.

That's good to know.

And so, but the book originally started, and this term isn't even out there because I looked up the website and Gmail addresses and everything. So it's going to be called Scat and Sniff. Oh, so scat's like animal poop. And so it was going to be all about like what animals eat and what their poop looks like. And it's going to be like not smelling the poop, but smelling like the food that they eat. But then people are like, that's not a good idea. And I'm like, well, I mean, it's not out there, so I guess maybe it's not. Plus scratch and sniff books are pretty difficult to make. Yeah, they're not easy. So I'm like, okay, I'm like, I guess that really won't work. But I like this idea of like getting to know like farm animals and like, and all that. And then I started just like writing stuff down, not even realizing I was writing stuff down. That was like ADHD-based about like my brain. Like, so when I was writing things down on this whole adventure that this goat was doing, I'm like, okay, this is literally me. So without even realizing, I started writing this book about this goat that has ADHD and his adventures around the farm. So it's kind of funny that with the— and people say, you know, write what you know. And obviously this is what I was doing. I was writing what I know, which was ADHD without even realizing. That I was doing that.

So what is the book going to be called now? What did you change it to?

Well, unfortunately, I still don't have the exact name because the name I wanted, someone took back and they didn't know they took it. So this is not something that they did. And I may still keep the name, but it was going to be called I'm Just Kiddin' because his name is Kidd and like little goats are called kids. But so I'm just, I'm still coming up with the name and the subtitle. I know the goat itself is going to be called Kidd. And the hope is that the launch for the pre-orders will be this summer. They will be this summer. The exact date, I don't know, but they— the pre-orders will be this summer, and then it'll be available on Amazon and Barnes Noble and Walmart and all that stuff later in the fall.

I can't wait to check it out. It sounds like a great idea.

Yeah, and it's a good way to include more diversity in your bookshelves as well, because only 3— like around 3% of 3% of children's books out there— back in like 2020, they did a survey— about 3% of the books, children's books out there, children's picture books, feature a main character with a disability.

Oh yeah, we need more of that.

Yeah, I know some people don't like the term disability with ADHD, but if you look at the criteria for what is considered disability, ADHD does meet the criteria for that.

Yeah, that— it makes sense. It would be nice if we could get rid of the stigma of that word.

Oh, for sure. That's a huge thing. I mean, the stigma of not only disability, but the stigma of, you know, autistic individual as well, and dyslexia. I mean, there's so many stigmas out there for all these different things that just— I think there's a lot of social media platforms out there right now that are happening to help erase that stigma. But I'm not sure the people following those are the people that maybe need help to erase some of the stigma out there. So I think that's helping to get more of the, of the audience to know like disability is not a bad word. Mental illness is not a bad word. Like these are not bad things.

Yes, I would love to see it just become part of our normal language. Like it's just normal to, you know, have, have the challenge of, you know, I'm feeling depressed, or I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I'm autistic. It would be nice if we would just accept all of these things and not think that there was something wrong with us.

Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. So tell us what you like best about what you do.

I like empowering the, like providing the resources, like the accommodations. I have parents that will email me, ask me questions. At this time, I'm not a coach or anything. So sometimes I have to direct them to other people or other resources. But I try to help as much as I can and just put— to help to put stuff in place so that the kids, as they go through the school system, they become more empowered. They feel like, I can do this, I'm— I, I am doing this, I'm with my peers. And they just feel like proud of themselves for how the work they're doing. And eventually the hope is with all these accommodations, they get to a point where they will know how to advocate for themselves to get the appropriate accommodations in place that maybe they don't have right now, or maybe they don't need anymore as well. Like, I don't, I don't need that accommodation. I'm doing, I'm doing good.

So that's a good point. Well, and I think that parents don't realize that there's people like you out there who have had success and know how to help them advocate. So I hope that the parents listening hear that, that there are people that can help you because sometimes they don't know what to ask for too. That's part of it.

Oh yeah, yeah, that is very— that definitely.

Let's go to the other side. What do you find most challenging right now? What are you finding most challenging?

I think something that really frustrates me still is that I worked really hard with my son's school, talking to administrators, talking to the director of special ed, um, the principal, you know, at this point My son's been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia and a bunch of D words. And this would have been 6, 7 years ago. And at that point, people weren't really educated as much about that as they are now. And so I felt like I was the head person in the room in the IEP meetings because I knew what was going on. I read the books. And so I was putting these different accommodations in place that would be good for a child like my son. And then talking to people years later saying just easy accommodations like the teacher notes saying, the school's not doing this for us. How are you doing that? And I'm like, are you kidding me? I spend so much time working with schools to say this is stuff that needs to be in place and it's still not being in place. And the same thing with like appropriate intervention of doing systemic teaching. Like, you know, the multisensory systemic teaching with individuals instead of doing like balanced, uh, teaching. And they're still doing like, you know, whatever. I mean, I don't know. So it is very frustrating.

So why— I mean, why do you think it takes so long for parents to get these things put in place for their kids? What is that about?

I mean, they always say follow the money. So I think a lot of these different programs that some of the schools are using, um, they have a lot of money, so they, they have a lot of push to get, and they put, and schools have put a lot of money into different trainings as well that may have not benefit all kids. So I think sometimes they feel like, let's just see how this plays out with this new training that we're doing, and not realizing the training that they're doing or they're putting forward isn't going to help all the kids. You know, maybe it will help this percent, but it there's things that can do to help every single kid.

So yeah, yeah, it's— being a teacher is not easy. I can't imagine having a classroom. I think my daughter has 26 kids in her class.

Oh yeah.

And every kid needs something so different, so I, I, I would not want that job.

Yeah, and a lot of times teachers will have no say over what program they use either. They have no say. It's the administrators. It's all them making the decision. So as much as a teacher may want to change it, you know, it's hard to be the squeaky wheel. And I think there is a lot of, you know, I'm on different social media platforms. There is a lot of millennial and younger teachers on TikTok who are trying to make the changes. And, you know, the older teachers are saying, yeah, you know, we need help. Please, you know, come and help us and do this and help with the changes. You know, maybe, maybe there will be some, some good impactful stuff with these younger teachers.

That would be awesome. I would love that. I would love to see that happen. Can you tell us what are some of the most common mistakes that people are making that you're helping them with?

The most common mistakes, um, something that a lot of people— I feel like with IEPs and 504s people feel like if they get the— that 504 may be better because it has less stigma around it. Again, it's this whole stigma thing. They're scared to do the IEP. So I think a common mistake is trying to do the 504 route instead of the IEP, when the IEP is how you're going to help get those, you know, interventions in place with the special education teacher. I mean, you can get some services through a 504, like occupational therapy and stuff, which changed in like, uh, 2018. I think the Department of Ed changes so you can get services through the 504, but you can't get— you're not going to get special education remediation through the 504. So I think sometimes people are scared to do the special education route too and have the kid go to the special education teacher to do the appropriate intervention. So I think that that's a mistake that people are making, is there's no— there's nothing wrong. Again, the whole stigma with the term special education too. I know people don't like that term, but if we just start destigmatizing some of these terms, there wouldn't be this whole like uproar about all these different terms that are out there.

It would be nice if they would look at— and I think some parents do— for them to look at an IEP as a strength instead of a weakness. I think some people look at it as a weakness, whereas I look at it like it's a strength that you have this for your child to help you be more successful.

Yeah, perfect. Yes.

Yeah. Um, what is the best advice that you have ever gotten?

So there is a, a book— well, they have several books now— called Wright's Law. So it's W-R-I-G-H-T-S-L-A-W, all one word. Okay. And it— they have so many amazing resources. And this is like the one of the first books I read was from them when I started this whole process. And they just, they talk in a way that parents can understand. So it's not like, it is a law book, but it's spoken in a way that parents can understand. So they provide amazing resources. Definitely there's, I think, support groups too locally can help as well. A lot of them are on Zoom right now. I do have a local support group I meet with once a month. So Meeting with them because they can get a lot of resources, information from those local support groups from, from parents as well that may be, you know, going through similar things as well that can help.

That's such good advice. I think we forget that there's support out there sometimes and that we're not alone. We're not the only one struggling with what we're struggling with.

Yep.

You know, I try to remind myself that if I'm struggling with something, that that means other people are struggling with it too. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So it's been a tough year and I'm, and I'm, I would say most people would say that this has been a very interesting year. How has COVID impacted you and what you're doing?

For my personal job as a physical therapist assistant?

You could, you could answer that however you want in your life, in your parenting, in your work. Okay.

So in my regular job, I'm a physical therapist assistant. I work with geriatrics and nursing homes, so we did have COVID wings. I did work with direct COVID patients that were active.

Oh wow.

Um, so, and there was times when the COVID would just run rampant through, through the nursing homes, and so employees would have it and then, um, the residents would have it. And I, I never had it. We had to get tested. The government, federal government, made us start getting tested and like August, I want to say, at least once a week everyone who works in nursing homes, whether you're payroll, janitor, whatever, you would have to get tested at least once a week to twice a week. So where I'm at, it had to be twice a week we would get tested to see if we have it, see if we have it, and then the residents would have to get tested as well.

So stressful.

Yeah, it was. It's definitely with the, with the vaccine and things are lighting up and people can— and you can have visitors again, they can do dining again, there's activities again. Um, you know, specific to each nursing home, because if there's active cases, then it's a little different. But if there's, if there's not, then there's a lot of things that are open again. It's really, it's nice. It feels like back to normal almost. It is nice.

I'm so glad. Yes, things are changing for sure.

Yeah. And then as far as like COVID with my kids, my son did online learning the first semester because it was all like, you weren't sure what was going to happen because they were like, so if your child's been exposed, they have to be home for 14 days. And I'm like, so are they getting instruction for these 14 days? Like, no one really had answers. And I'm like, how often will someone have to be, um, quarantined? Like, what are they— what are they considering? And still no one had answers. And we had to make the decision back in like this last spring when things were like at the peak. So I'm like, okay, so I guess we'll just do online for him. And then my daughter was going to go in person and the online was not a good fit. It was— these teachers had like twice as big classrooms. So a normal class would have, you know, still a way too high of a number for a teacher in these, in these mid-20s to low 20s. And some of his classes had like 40 kids. How are you going to teach an online class with 40 kids? That's just— that's not a good fit.

That's a lot.

Yeah, for no— for any kid, that's a, that's a horrible fit. And it I know our district was like that, and I talked to other parents from other districts, and it seemed kind of similar with some of them as well, that the classes were just way big for, for the online learners.

Yeah, well, and I discovered through this how different each of my children are with learning and remote learning and all of that. How old, how old are your kids?

My son just turned 14, and my daughter's 11, and she'll be 12 next month.

Yeah, it's, it's hard ages, all of, all of it, all of the ages. I don't think there's an age that didn't have a hard time this year.

Yeah, because even like the newborn kids, um, that were pretty much hanging out in their house the whole time, like there was this video, this woman taking her kid for the first time to a grocery store, and he was like just like looking around like, what is this? What is happening? And this kid was like a year almost. And he was like so confused where he was, that what was going on. It was actually a very hilarious video.

So it's so bizarre. Can you tell us some myths that people have about ADHD?

I think people feel like everyone is hyperactive.

Yes, yes, yeah.

I think a lot of people think like everyone who has it is hyperactive, and maybe there's some aspects where you may feel like you're, you're kind of hyperactive, but I think people just think it's like these boys in elementary school that are hyperactive and like can't pay attention or like run around all over the place, which really is not the case. And people are realizing that. I think a lot of that's changing, but there is still that perception for a lot of people who may not be, um, on social media or even like in this kind of universe of with younger children and stuff that realize there is still a lot of myths with that hyperactivity. There is the myth as well that it's overdiagnosed, which really, if anything, it's probably underdiagnosed.

Yeah. Well, and I think we all throw around terms too easily, like you're acting ADHD, you're feeling depressed. Like those are actual diagnosed conditions that, you know, you can't just act ADHD. Okay, can you give us one action step that a neurodivergent person can take away from today? One step that you would give them.

I would say just continue to help to decrease the stigmas that are out there. Just do your part, um, you know, talk, talk openly about it. I mean, until probably earlier this year, even last year, I really didn't talk about my diagnosis at all. I talked a little bit of my difficulties with dysgraphia. That's a written expression difficulties, but I didn't talk much at all about other things. I talked a lot about my kids because that's what people, people would know, like how it was helping them and stuff. And people, people in the community that kind of know that, but I didn't really talk much about myself. And I am changing that. I do talk a lot more about myself and my difficulties and struggles on social media now. So I think that's, that's good to put that out there and people just be open about it is good too, because I think there's a lot more people who have different diagnoses that may just do masking. So masking is where you just try to act neurotypical throughout the day, and that's exhausting. That's, you know, it's very exhausting when people, when people have to do that.

I think that's really good advice. Let's, let's all help end the stigma. That's what I want to say, even if we don't have a neurodivergent condition. What else do you want to share that I didn't think to ask you?

Um, that's a good question. There's a— so let me talk a little bit about dysgraphia because that's one thing that I have that I think a lot of people may not be all aware of. So it's not— people know the term dysgraphia is not just like messy handwriting. It's, it's much more than that. It can be a child that isn't able to stay in the line when they write, um, doesn't do correct spatial, uh, spacing between words or even letters, still switches their— like, I still switch my J's and G's sometimes around, you know, even Q's. Um, sometimes you'll miss whole letters when you're writing a word that you know you may know how to spell depending on what other uh, comorbidities you have, uh, you, you write so fast when you look back you sometimes can't even read your handwriting because you've written so, you've written so fast, or you miss words, or you miss whole letters. And so I think when people are looking at their kids and their writings, if they're still, if they're young and still flipping their letters, that's normal, that, that's okay. But if they continue, like, if you're giving them, they have like some kind of homework and it's writing homework and they're just looking at that blank piece of paper and you know they're overwhelmed, they're frustrated, they don't know what to do, you know, there could be some dysgraphia there. And there's, there's some easy things that teachers can do that they probably already may have in place for other kids. So things like sentence starters, so where the, the teacher may actually have, um, the first few words of a sentence started for the kid, and then they may have other things in there. Like, let's say they have a sentence that says the, the child was— so that's the first part, and then you have to write something, and then they may say have the word because, and then you have to write the second part. So things like that they may already have in place or can easily be added, even if the child doesn't have a 504 IEP. It could be something that the teacher could do because they may already have the resources for that. And then when kids start typing, there is word prediction software like CoWriter, which is an extension on Google. So you could add a Co:Writer extension onto Google because when you— and when you type, it will have the next words that it thinks you may want to do. So that can help kids too that have that frustration of being able to write because they don't know what to write, because sometimes it can help with the prediction. So like, so let's say someone does have dysgraphia or they have, uh, written expression difficulties, they may be able to, as they go— let's say they have IEP of 504 and they're doing accommodations— as they go through schooling They can, you know, do a scaffolding approach. So as they go through the schooling, the accommodations become a little less. So maybe they have to start with sentence starters when they're younger, and then maybe as they get older and they're doing more typing, they work with word prediction software. And then maybe as they get older, they don't need that, so they can just work on a regular program like Grammarly. So, you know, you try to do the scaffolding approach. So as they get— as they go on through schooling, maybe they don't need those those younger accommodations, and maybe they do, and that's okay if they, if they do as well, and they need to keep those in place. And that's the same thing with full notes as well. So maybe a child may need those full notes, and as they go on through schooling, maybe they need guided notes instead. So guided notes are notes that may have keywords missing that the kid writes down as the teacher talks about whatever the lecture is discussing. So guided notes could be a good way to scaffold to go to the next level for accommodations.

So there's a lot of tools out there that people don't know about is what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I appreciate everything that you've shared and taught us today. You taught me a lot, and I love the work that you're doing. I think you're—

oh, thank you—

greatness out there. You're sensing greatness.

Always. You gotta sense that greatness.

Tell everyone where they can go find you.

I'm probably the most active on Instagram, so it's Sensing Greatness, like your sensory system sensing. And also on Facebook as Sensing Greatness. My website is www.sensinggreatness.com. I'm on TikTok, but not— I don't do much on there, but definitely Instagram is probably the most commonplace to find me, but my website will have some more resources as I keep updating the website as well.

Wonderful. And we'll— we will all look for your book. That sounds like a great book.

Thank you so much.

Well, thank you so much for being here with me today. This was a lot of fun.

Well, I appreciate it. You're fun to talk to. I liked it.

Oh, thank you so much. This is Rebecca Green reminding everyone to spend every day laughing learning, and loving.

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