The Whinypaluza Podcast with Rebecca Greene Episode 023 Simply Convivial

No need to whine, it's Whiny Palooza! Have some wine and join us on the Whiny Palooza podcast with Rebecca Green.

Welcome to the Whiny Palooza podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Green. I'm a wife, mother of 3, and licensed clinical social worker. I also have 3 fur babies at home too. My passion has always been to help children and their families. I always dreamed of being a wife and a mother. Parents are always learning through their struggles, failures, and successes and joys. I am no stranger to this wild ride of parenting, and I know behind every great parent lies a team of supportive friends and family. I want to be part of your support system. I want you to know that you are not alone. We are in this parenting world together. Join me every week for insightful discussions with experts on parenting and marriage, as well as other parents who have found the secret to successes in parenthood. You'll learn tips and tricks to make life with your family better than ever. I hope you will follow along with me while we dive into what it takes to achieve a happy family.

Hello everyone, this is Rebecca Green for the Whiny Palooza podcast, and I am so excited that I get to have Misty Winkler here with us she is always here to remind you that organization starts with your attitude, which we do by repenting and rejoicing on repeat. A second-generation homeschooler living in her hometown on the dry side of Washington State, Missy and her husband homeschool their 5 kids classically, stay active in their local church, and take walks to escape the near-constant piano practice in their home. With her podcast, blog, courses and community, she helps homemakers figure out how to gain traction and find satisfaction at home through her ABC process: Adjust your attitude, build better habits, and celebrate small wins. You can find her in a free guide on how to declutter your head at simplyconvivial.com. Welcome, Misty.

Hello. Thank you for having me. You even said convivial, right?

So there you go. I practiced that. And I have to tell you, I love your title.

Where did the title— her podcast that I have been listening to and loving is Simply Convivial. And I'm just wondering, where did you get that title from?

I like weird words. I'm an English major. I'm a reader. And I didn't realize how weird a word it was when I picked it.

You know what?

It makes you stand out though. There's so many, like, you know, and I love all of the mothers' podcasts. I'm not putting anyone down. I love all their titles, but it makes you stand out because I was like, oh, what does this word mean?

I have to look it up.

It does. So I've put the definition on the sidebar of my blog, just, but I love it because it, if you look at the root of it, it's con, so that's with, and then Vivere is life. So convivial really means with life. And it's about doing life together with our kids and as a family and community. And that the life that we're living together is supposed to be one of enjoying one another's company. And that gives us a goal when we're doing organization or homeschooling or just family dinners, really anything that we're doing in our homes. I find that the word convivial just helps give me that picture that I need for what is the goal and what we're doing here. And yes, it's so easy to get that picture of the goal is for it to look like it belongs on HGTV or look like it belongs on a Pinterest photo. But you know, a lot of times those convivial moments as a family aren't picture perfect, but they are memories that are that, you know, bring us together.

Excellent point. My daughters make fun of me. And, you know, before children, my space was always like perfect.

You know, you know, people like Type A people like me who wanted everything to have its place and everything was neat and clean.

And my girls make fun of me and they'll say things like, our house is lived in or crumbs means that we ate wonderful food.

Like, they think they're so funny. Oh my gosh.

I wanna back up and I, you know, you're helping so many mothers and I just wanted to start with what inspired you to get started helping other moms.

Really just my own journey and need for help along the way. I married my husband at 19 and we had our first baby at 21 and being that, you know, Type A administrative type person, I just assumed that I would be able to handle this just easy peasy.

Yeah, we all do. We're all so silly.

I know, and I should have known better because I'm also the oldest of 7 and we were homeschooled, and so I knew what big family life was like. But, you know, in my young 20s, I just thought, well, You know, that was my mom. I'll be able to do it so much better. How hard could it be, really? So I've asked my mom to forgive me.

Yes, we all have. Yes.

And now I tell my children when they make comments like that, it's like, well, you'll thank me when you're 30.

Yes, I hope, I hope so. Oh my gosh.

But you know, the not just homeschooling, but adding children. And as you know, about baby 3 and 4, really, it's like each time the pregnancy and then postpartum and all of that, things just fall apart. And how do you get back on the bandwagon, especially after you feel like it's impossible to get back on it again? Like, I've fallen off so many times. Maybe this is just, maybe this just is no bandwagon for me. I just can't. And, but each time I became determined, no, I really need to, you know, get my act together and all of that and had a lot of learning through the difficulties. And I started writing about it on the blog and it just kind of morphed into courses and an ebook. And then. I put it all together in a membership with a community that really comes along with accountability and support for one another. So it's been a long process, but it's been a joy.

Well, and it's so interesting to see when we start with our blog, because you and I both started with a blog, what it morphs into step by step. It just kind of sometimes it naturally develops just because we want to help other mothers. So I love that you're doing that. And I commend you.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Okay.

So homeschooling 5 kids, like I want to fall off my chair saying that.

I have my kids home Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. They're in school Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday, Friday is my youngest independent work days to do with me. And it is so challenging. So I think about women like you who are doing this every day. I mean, I, I'm going to be totally selfish here and ask you for tips. How are you keeping 5 children engaged with schoolwork every day?

I'm blown away.

Well, it starts with, you know, the kind of work that we're doing, and really probably if you are helping your kids with your homework probably the— you are putting in the same amount of time as I am. It's just, they have, you know, other school and other people assigning stuff. But when you're working one-on-one or in a small group where it's like, you know, me and two of my kids or that sort of thing, it just doesn't take as much time to work through the material. And I think personally, I mean, I'm the kind of person who likes to be in charge and make decisions myself, but I find it easier to do the work I've picked for us all to do and not, you know, what's been assigned by someone else. So, you know, we're working on math that is where they're at, you know, each student, and they're being challenged at their level, but they don't have to keep up with a class or worry about a grade on their transcript this semester type of thing. They're just working on their next thing and their current challenge, taking the next step wherever they're at.

I love that so much. And as you were talking, I read your mind and I was like, I know exactly what she's going to say because you're not dealing with— I'm not saying that the school curriculum is negative. I don't want to put down the school curriculum, but you're doing a totally— you're probably doing totally different things than what we're doing, is my guess. Yeah, and it's a challenge, and I love that you have creative power to make it work for your children, and I'm so impressed that you're homeschooling 5 kids.

But I'm gonna move on. I had to read that a few times, by the way.

Okay, so we're, you know, all of us moms have so many things going on in our brains. Constantly. It's like the never-ending brain. And you talk about an interesting concept called the brain dump. Can you tell us what the brain dump is?

Brain dump is writing things down. It's like revolutionary. So I got it from David Allen's book Getting Things Done, which was one of the places that I turned to several times when I had really little kids and I was trying to be more productive and get things under control. And so a lot of my material really comes from my reading of a lot of those basic productivity books and trying to take the principles and the ideas and figure out whether or how they fit into mom's life at home instead of just an office, you know, where people have the ability to close the door and make appointments. Like, that's not mom's life.

Right. Right.

But a brain dump, David Allen has that as like his first step. And it is because we have so much going on in our heads. And I think this is even more true for moms that when it's in our heads, we just get stuck in loop, you know, thinking loops and ideas or worries stay vague. But if you write them down, you have to put them into words. And that act of expressing them and then seeing them concretely on paper instead of just kind of feeling them in your head helps you realize what's really going on in the situation, what's really going on in your head, because you might not even realize that. And then also to just be able to, without guilt, cross things off and say, I don't know why I'm worried about that, but look at that, I am worried about it. I realize I'm worried about it and I don't need to be. And you like physically cross it off.

Great idea. It's a really great idea. I don't think that we, unless I'm journaling, unless I'm consciously like, I have all this stuff I'm thinking about, I'm going to go journal. Unless I pick to do that purposely, which isn't often enough, we aren't writing down and organizing our thoughts.

Mm-hmm.

Instead of journaling because it's probably my own personal hangup. I feel like if I'm going to journal, like it has to be this heartfelt paragraphs and pages that are, you know, I'm going to turn back to and read, or the pressure seems high for the product, what, you know, in journaling and the brain dump is just like, no, you're just like vomiting those thoughts on paper and it's going to be a mess. And it doesn't have to be in complete sentences or artistic or kept at all. You know, most of my brain dumps go in the garbage when I'm done with them. It's just a process to work through and it's a messy process and that's okay.

And I think that you're going to help a lot of people listening because I think you're not the only one that has a concept about what journaling is. So let's call it a brain dump and let's take away You're bringing me to perfectionism.

Yeah.

Take away the perfectionism that we all get caught up in and what our journalists— can you tell us in case people don't know, why is perfectionism a problem?

Well, perfectionism, sometimes we can think that perfectionism is our high standards that help— is helping us achieve a lot, but more often than not perfectionism is preventing us from even getting started or doing what we ought to be doing. Because if we can't do it to our high standards, then we choose to not do it at all. And so perfectionism often prevents us from making progress in things because we want to figure it all out and then do it right the first time.

Yes.

And most things we're not gonna get right the first time. And so if you never get started, you're never gonna learn and figure it out and make progress.

Yes. You know, it's funny how I think a lot of us used to wear it like a badge of honor. Like, I'm a perfectionist.

Why would I ever think that that was a good thing to me? I was like, no, you're gonna do it. You're gonna do it my way.

Yeah, that doesn't work, but it increases the stress for sure. And I think we don't realize how much stress and pressure and anxiety it gives us, especially when that perfectionism— when we extend ours to other people and try to get other people to meet our standards, which sometimes we do because we aren't meeting our own standards. So, but it's easier to like tell other people what to do Absolutely. As I say, this is a bossy oldest sister. Way easier to tell other people what to do than to do it yourself.

Oh my God, totally. And I'm a bossy older sis, oldest sister too. So you and I are on the same page.

I think that my greatest coping strategy has been to lower my standards. And I think that we could all do that a little bit just to make our life a little easier.

Helps us get through the day easier.

I know that You know, we have this idea of what we want our homes to look like and how organized we want it to be and how decluttered we want it to be. And I think that for someone like me, you know, my husband is good at compartmentalizing things. I think sometimes I just don't even know where to start. Can you give us a tip? Like, where do we even start? Just to organize our house.

Yeah. So I like to say that you start by organizing your attitude. You organize your attitude before your closets.

Love it.

And so a lot of that comes down to our expectations and our mindset. And if our attitude is, you know, I have to get this all under control myself and my way, we're just fighting an uphill battle that we're never really meant to win. We don't have to be in control of our surroundings. And our situation in order to do the right thing, do the right next thing, or to love our families well. So instead of thinking about, well, first I'm gonna get everything organized and under control, and then we'll be able to get along as a family, or then we'll be able to, you know, whatever the thing is, look at all these goals that we have and which one really is the priority in your life? And let's do that one first. And it's probably your relationships. And your relationships with your husband or your kids are going to be improved most if you talk to them kindly, smile at them, listen to them, eat with them. And whether or not the closets are cleaned and organized and the sheets washed every week, You know, if the goal is our relationships, then those things need to be lower on the list. Yes.

You're making me feel so much better because, you know, I judge myself. It's amazing how much I judge myself on what does my house look like today? What does my bedroom look like? What does the kitchen look like? You know, it's amazing. And seriously, it's important. To have a living environment that we can all function in and do school in. However, it's even more important that my kids know that I love them and that I want to spend some time with them. And I, you know, used to get so upset that my husband was playing a board game with them while I was cleaning. And so I think that the reason why my house might not be as perfect as I want it to be is because now I know, go play the board game. Stop cleaning.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And you know, when we do the cleaning and the organizing, a part of the attitude around that or the mindset around that, that really trips us up is thinking that if we just get to a certain state, you know, if we just declutter everything, or if I get every closet organized or the right housekeeping schedule, you know, whatever those pieces are that we're trying to find, the perfect mix, that then everything's going to stay that way. And then I'll be able to, you know, live the life that I want to live. But all of these things, like to say, entropy is real. Entropy is a law of the universe. Things tend toward disorder. And so there is no such thing. And it's a little bit of that perfectionism coming out again. There is no such thing as getting to a certain level and then it stays that way.

Right.

And especially not with kids at home who are always growing and changing and their needs develop. And so even the stuff that you have in your house is going to change. The seasons change. So you've got to change out the clothes. You know, all these things are just, it's just management. It's all maintenance. It's ongoing. It's like tending a garden. Not like finishing off a project.

Such a good way to look at it. It's such a more manageable way to look at it. When we look at our week and we're like, oh my gosh, there's like so much going on. You have a concept. See, you're, you're helping me feel more organized just saying this word, this phrase. You have a weekly review concept. Yes. Can you just touch on that for us to help us feel ready to take on our weeks?

So this is another thing I got from David Allen and Getting Things Done. A weekly review is a time either at the end of the week or the beginning of the week to look at your calendar and see what's going on. Make yourself a list of what's really important and what's actually happening this week, and then you can work from that list. And so often I think our planning comes— we end up looking, using a blank planner page or blank piece of paper, and our planning is a whole bunch of wishful thinking and idealistic plans. Like, if everything went my way and I used all of my time perfectly efficiently, then I could do all these things. And it's amazing. And then it never happens that way. And so we think something is wrong with us, but something's just wrong with our plan. You know, that was not a real workable, realistic plan. And so if we start our plan by looking at our calendar and saying, okay, well, these are my actual responsibilities, my time is actually committed here and there, And so, you know, I need to put what needs to happen to make those commitments happen. You know, if my kid has a class on Tuesday and the homework has to happen before then, and I have to help, that's the sort of thing that needs to be on the list. But those are the sort of things we often leave off the list. Cause like, well, that has to happen. So I don't need to put that on the list. Cause that's just, we often put extras on our to-do list instead of what we're really committed to using our time for.

That's an excellent point, and I think that I stack my days so hugely, and I'm not accounting for the fact that my 8-year-old is home today, and she's like, why are you always busy?

You don't do anything with me.

And I'm like, okay, this— the laundry is not important.

I will go do something with Lily.

But you make excellent points. I mean, I think that we overcommit ourselves in our schedule, just in our minds. Such a good point. And speaking of our children being home, what is a tip that you would give us to help enjoy our kids more every day?

I think one thing that I have learned in having a larger family, I don't feel like I have a large family because I grew up the oldest of 7. So like, right. I have a small family.

That's funny to me.

But is that we are a team as a family. And so we do life together. So that means if there's laundry to fold, we fold it together. You know, we all pitch in and we are— they're learning by helping around the house, by just kind of following us around. And it's easy to get into that mentality, the attitude of, well, I could do this so much faster on my own. So you go off and do that thing and I'm going to do this thing. And then we'll just have free time together where we do something fun. But the time that you spend with your kids doesn't have to be all fun and games. It's not the only thing that counts is spending time with them. You know, just taking a walk or folding laundry or cooking just the normal meal. Doing house cleaning together, helping them clean their room. All of these things are spending time together and giving them skills to be able to grow up and, you know, maybe start off on a better foot than we did.

Well, and I think that this is going to help so many people, what you just said, because I'm thinking about how much I put on myself to do by myself. And you said my family is a team. And I went, oh my gosh, hello. I have, I mean, my husband is wonderful and he helps me so much at home when he's home, but I'm guilty of not involving my kids enough in the stuff that I have to get done every day. So.

Well, it's another thing that makes us need to kill that perfectionism because if they are helping, it's not going to be maybe what we would always very true, want and hope it to be.

It's so true.

And, and it's okay if they don't fold the way that I want them to fold.

You know, they've started putting away their laundry, and I walk in their rooms and you can see that they like stuffed it into the drawers. And I'm like, you know what, let it go. They took something off of your plate, let it go.

You are balancing So much, so much, so much work, so much with your kids, homeschooling. Can you tell us how you are balancing it all?

Well, I think we tend— when we look at other people's lives, we tend to assume that they're doing everything we would like to be doing and everything we see them doing all at once. And that's just not the case. And I forget where I heard this, story one time in something I was reading. And it said, you know, when we talk about balance and balancing everything, like, just think about a tightrope walker balancing or a ballerina balancing on one toe. Like, what's actually happening when someone is balancing? We tend to think of it as like, you've got it figured out, you're, you've got it all together. Sometimes, right? I think what we mean, but balancing is such an interesting word because there's a whole lot of compensation going on. And you know, your body is actually in constant motion to balance. And you know, when you start leaning one way, you have to pull the other way. And it's not a, all right, I've got all the pieces just right. Don't blow on it because it'll fall over.

It's more like, okay. So we're falling this way.

So we're gonna go this way. It's a very active balancing.

Yes. It's such a more realistic way to look at it.

Yeah. And it's changed a lot over the years because at this point my husband works from home. He's worked from home for the last 6 years now. And so there's no commute time. He doesn't work long hours. So he helps, he takes care of all the kids' math when we homeschool. So, you know, that's a huge thing right there.

Awesome.

And you know, I have teenagers, I have 3 teenagers now and my youngest is 8. So everyone can read on their own. Everyone knows how to do, unload the dishwasher. Everyone takes care of their own laundry. So it's just a different point in time. Like the things I do now, I would not, was not able to do when I had little babies and little kids who needed me a lot more intensely.

Yes, I love that you have them taking care of their own laundry. I'm making notes.

I need to write that down.

And they are totally stuffing it in their drawers. It's like all I ask is that really the drawers should be able to close.

Seriously.

At this point, I almost don't even care.

Is that terrible?

I'm like, you did it, it's done.

What would you say your own coping skills are? Like, what do you do for yourself to help you with your crazy day? Days? And I shouldn't say crazy days, just busy mom days.

I take a lot of walks. I have a Fitbit and I have friends on Fitbit, so we do Fitbit challenges and I'm never at the top, but it helps to get fresh air and movement. And that's something I tell my kids too, when they feel, you know, that tension, when math is hard, when they, you know, we all have that feeling of, I just can't handle this right now. With whatever it is. And so we get a drink of water, go take steps. I like audiobooks, especially while walking. These are all things that we can do, and then we can also help our kids do too, because it's all just part of life.

Yes, yes. And I think fresh air is one of the best. I think, you know, I just listened to the principal's message from middle school, and he said, put the devices away and go get some fresh air.

So I totally agree. Couldn't agree more.

What would you say the best advice is you have ever gotten? I know that's a hard question.

I've gotten a lot of advice. And really, I feel like all of this stuff that I have in inside the courses, on my blog, is really just me processing advice I've received and figuring it out and applying it. For putting it in different words, and that really helps you learn it. I know that—

true.

As far as homeschooling goes, I had several older homeschool moms tell me that the best curriculum is the one that you use. Yes. And you know, that's true with homeschooling or with cleaning plans or any other kind of, you know, thing you're trying to put in place. We spend a lot of time trying to figure out the perfect one more time figuring it out than doing it, but it's in the doing of even an imperfect plan that you get a lot more traction.

Such good advice.

I knew you would have good advice.

Can you share with everyone what Simply Convivial Continuing Education is?

Yeah, that's my membership site. So over the years now, I have written a dozen courses. Some of them are 12 modules long. I have 3 12-module courses that make up Simplified Organization. And that's really the big picture, like figure out the different pieces of your life and address them. And it's not make the perfect system so everything works, but it's like systematically going through all the aspects of life, family life at home, and saying, what is driving me crazy? What can I do? What I be doing? And it's a process for each woman to figure out what's on her plate in her situation. Because what I have found is a lot of the advice or plans out there say, okay, here's the cleaning plan, just do it. Here's my step-by-step advice. Or, you know, Martha Stewart's cleaning calendar and the thing which has tasks I've never done.

I have seen it. I have, I looked at it briefly and went, uh-uh. Yeah.

And so, so my stuff is really more of that process I went through several times in my life to try to figure out what am I even supposed to be doing and helps women work through that. Then we also have a few other shorter courses. There's 6-module courses and a module takes about a week. Sweep and Smile is the most popular one. That is— I love that.

Sweep and Smile. Sweep and Smile. Love that.

That one helps you figure out the like bare minimum home routines that you need to keep your home in functional condition and with your attitude about each one along the way. So it's not just here's the cleaning list. It's you figure out what cleaning list your home needs and not to keep, keep it perfect, but just to keep it functional. And then along the way, you know, what's the real point behind cleaning the laundry. And how can we keep that truth in mind so that we don't get frustrated and overwhelmed or stopped by perfectionism along the way?

Something that we all need to go look up and find.

Can you tell everyone where to go find you?

Yes, you can go to simplyconvivial.com, which is maybe a little tricky to spell.

I was just gonna say, I wonder if you should spell that.

Yeah, so convivial is C-O-N-V-I-V-I-A-L, but I have checked and you can misspell it and Google will still find it.

Awesome.

If you Google it.

I remember the first time I read that and I was like, what?

Really? It's like, I don't even know what this means. I love it that I don't— I have to look up this word.

I like to summarize it as doing life cheerfully.

I love it. It's—

that's what it sounds like when you say it. It sounds like a cheerful word. Well, I have had so much fun talking to you. This has been wonderful, and I appreciate you taking time out of your very busy life to, uh, meet with me today.

Thank you. This is a lot of fun.

This is Rebecca Green for the Winey Palooza podcast. Reminding everyone to spend every day laughing, learning, and loving.

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