Normal Blood Results But Still Sick? The Truth Doctors Won't Tell You

Your blood tests are normal, so why do you still feel unwell? You're tired, something feels different, and tests that read as everything looks fine haven't given you an answer. Today I'm joined by Susan Hunter, naturopath and author of The Health Edit: Where to Start and What to Change for Women Over 40. We'll be exploring what normal results can leave unexplained and how to ask better questions and and where to start when you're tired of searching. Welcome, Susan.

Thanks for having me, Rita.

You're welcome. I love, love, love— we've been having a huge chat before I press record. This is really important because we're hearing more and more the frustration from women who are aware that there's something wrong, that something doesn't feel right, yet they go to the doctor, they have the tests, they say everything's in normal range, and yet nothing, and they're left alone. This is the part that we were talking about, how you're left alone between getting the data And actually having some meaningful result. You've been at this for like 20 years. What is it that keeps leaving women without meaningful answers?

Primarily, for a long time, it was the dismissal by the medical system of women's experience. So, you know, you go way back and we were called hysterical. It was hysteria if we had these signs and symptoms, mental, emotional, physical.

Like the 1800s?

Yeah, I got told by a doctor once I needed to go on the pill. It would soften me, you know, and, you know, I just walked out of his office thinking, that is not what I need to do right now. The data around women just hasn't really existed. And increasingly we are now starting to see more clinical trials, more women-specific studies done, and we're working out we're very different to men. The other part of it is the visit to the doctor. There's only so many tests they run, so they're only really going to do a small handful. And that's completely understandable because, you know, there's only so much from a Medicare bulk billing perspective in Australia where you can run X amount based on what's going on. But quite often not enough testing is done or no testing is done at all. So we can't get a sense of how the signs and symptoms, the clinical expression of what is going on for that person, what is happening at an internal level in order for those people to kind of get an understanding of what the root cause of their problem is and address that. And then I guess the other thing is women are kind of walking away from those appointments being told to just come back if it gets worse, it's possibly just stress, you, you're probably going through menopause. And then they're sort of opening up their phones and turning to social media, and that's a whole other conversation around the mis- and disinformation out there from armchair experts. Sometimes they are very Well-known, great, great specialists and doctors. But the problem with that is they're talking to a big audience and you're an individual. And I've always believed that you treat the person, not the condition. And so it's really important to make sure we personalize the treatment approach to you.

Yeah, I totally agree with the personalization. No one is the same. You can have the same symptoms, but doesn't mean it's manifesting exactly the same or it's You know, giving you the same, like we said, symptoms as the other person. So let's, let's just go back to the health, the blood test. What is it about a blood test that it can show that everything's normal, but it's not explaining why you feel unwell? What is wrong with them?

It could be that not enough testing is being done. Like, if you're coming to the doctor with unexplained fatigue, for instance, I'm tired all the time, you know, so many women I know are just Tired and busy. You're eating well, you're doing regular exercise, you're sleeping well, but you're not waking up feeling refreshed. So let's say you've got your health foundations under control, you're still tired. So often the doctor will test iron, and they'll test a full blood count, and they'll do a bi— a basic biochemistry. Now, a basic biochemistry gives me a lot of information. It tells me about your electrolyte balance, it tells me about systemic pH, gives me a bit of information about antioxidants. status, when we look at your liver function, how your kidneys are doing. Then the iron piece— if you are a menstruating female, then it's quite possible that you'll have in-range iron and in-range ferritin iron stores, but they could be way down the bottom of the reference range. That's not optimal. It really requires interpretation. And then the other things that would be missing from that explain fatigue picture are your vitamin B12 and folate levels, because they too can create a type of anemia that means you're not delivering oxygen to cells properly to make energy at a cellular level efficiently. So it could be another nutrient deficiency. It could be an underactive thyroid. It could be residual viral load. Maybe you've had glandular fever recently and you haven't even known, and then you've just got this low-grade tiredness That, you know, we know when you have glandular, it's at least 3 months of feeling pretty fatigued, or for some people it can be post-COVID, it can be other viruses. Quite often we're stopping before we kind of do more thorough kind of casting our net wide grab on what else could be driving fatigue. And health is so complex that often it's more than one contributing factor. It'll be a number of different things that can be all playing into the one symptom.

Beyond these numbers, do you do a full assessment Like of their lifestyle, like all their lifestyle factors?

Absolutely. In functional medicine, we really can't underestimate the role that fueling efficiently— so eating well, eating enough protein, particularly for anyone over the age of 40, as our muscle mass declines and we get older— it's really important to look after our bones and our muscles. And I really think that muscle gives you metabolic currency. And by that I mean, for women, when they go into perimenopause, people don't realize that we have an increased risk of heart disease. And it's because we become more insulin resistant. We get a higher cholesterol reading most of the time, and that's independent of our diet. So looking after your muscle mass with things like strength training and eating adequate amounts of protein, you don't have to— bulk like a bodybuilder. Good, good levels of protein at every meal and snack time are a really good foundation. You can't underestimate movement, good sleep, good stress management. I mean, they're easy to say, but they are the foundations. I think of them as like the base for building the rest of the house.

So for women in perimenopause, menopause, they think they've had a menopause, but I heard that you're never really kind of out of menopause once Menopause starts, it's just a progression of symptoms. I don't know if that's correct.

Perimenopause? Yeah, it can last a decade. I mean, typically women start to go into early perimenopause where we're seeing these fluctuations and a start, the start of a decline in estrogen and progesterone in their early 40s. Some women can start experiencing that in their late 30s. Because menopause is having this huge moment now, I feel like too many women in their 30s are coming to me and saying, Do you think I've got perimenopause? Because I've got brain fog and I've got the tiredness and, you know, I'm kind of like, you know, not sleeping that well. And I think it's really easy to get caught in the, oh, it's perimenopause, you know. And, and quite often we'll test their ovarian hormones on the 2nd and 3rd day of their cycle, and then again sort of 7 days post-ovulation to look at their follicular phase and luteal phase snapshots. And they're perfectly fine. Um, that's not the issue. There are other things going on, and that can be other hormones. It can be stress hormones. It can be metabolic hormones. It could be thyroid. Yeah, you've got to be really careful around kind of pigeonholing yourself and thinking, you know, that's, that's all this is. Once you do get to menopause, and, you know, technically menopause is the moment you hit and tick over into like full menopause. is 12 months of not having had a period. Now that's when emotionally, energy-wise, we tend to just feel like we're a lot more even. So there is a transition moment.

The woman listening who hears— who's heard all over social media as well, you know, protein, protein, protein, do your eggs, but goes, okay, but I'm at home by myself. How much protein do I need? Yeah. You know, so like we can get a little granular in asking. So how much protein would be ideal for someone in this stage? And is there a specific type of exercise that helps, or is it just what suits you and what you've been doing or not doing?

And what type of exercise you do will influence how much protein you'll need, right? Because it's about sort of energy in, energy out, in the sense that if you are doing strength training, which I encourage all women over 40 to do at least twice a week— and it doesn't mean you have to go and do really heavy powerlifting in the gym— you might progress to that in 3 years' time. But if you're starting from zero, just your body weight, you know, just being able to kind of do squats, being able, you know, just with no weights in your hands, being able to do a squat, being able to do a plank, being able to do a push-up, and starting from one and building that up. Definitely, as we lift higher loads and you start using free weights or resistance bands to free weights, and then from free weights you can go to barbell, you would increase your protein intake to match how much you're working in the gym or, you know, where you do your exercise. But the protein thing, I teach people to eyeball food. So if, if everyone just knew that 1 egg gives you roughly 6 or 7 grams, depending on the size of the egg, of protein, I want you aiming for about 20 to 30 grams of protein per meal. So one egg on toast is not going to cut it, right? You're going to need at least 2 eggs, and you're probably going to want to add in maybe some smoked salmon or a piece of bacon or something else in there that's going to be either fish, red meat, poultry, dairy, egg-based. That's— they're the main things that you're going for. So quite often I cheat a little bit because I don't love eating a lot of animal protein. Like, I'll have, you know, a palm-sized serve of red meat a couple of times a week. So I will use powders. I will use good quality collagens or protein powders, and that just tops me up because the idea of a lot of animal protein at every meal is a lot for me. And you can, you can still get it from your legumes. Like, you'll get quite a bit from chickpeas and lentils, so you can definitely get through grains and nuts and, and, and legumes in combination to get that essential kind of full protein in a meal. So, you know, you want to make sure that across the day you're aiming for about 1.5 grams of protein to each kilo of body weight. And if you're training more, it's about 2 grams of protein per kilo of body weight. So that's just a general rule.

Also, this is a little bit, maybe a bit controversial in This is the confusion when, like we're saying, people are by themselves, they get information, and social media is great. It's kind of like a double-edged sword. You get to learn a lot and you get to identify some of your symptoms in what someone else is saying, even if they're a professional or whether they're just sharing their story. And then there's AI, which is, I think is very helpful with health, but I think it's also dangerous because it's very dependent on the prompt that you ask it. For the, you know, result that you get back. So I think that's still, you know, in its infancy.

It wants to please you.

It wants to please. And depending on the prompt, you could suddenly think you've got some rare disease when really you've got a cough. You know, you just have to be so careful with it. I heard, because I just picked this up from what you were saying about the protein powders. Now you have a lot of the very successful people on social media who say protein powders are garbage. Don't put them in your body. This is where I think people sit. They're at home, they're by themselves, and they hear, use protein powder. No, protein powder is garbage. No, don't do this. Don't run. Yes, run. You know, don't, don't exercise. Don't do high-intensity training when you're in menopause. Yes, do it. It's confusing.

Yeah. And I find that I have so many women and men, you know, and who come to me and they're in They're really well informed, but they're really overwhelmed and they're very confused. Protein powders, for instance, there are really great quality protein powders and there are garbage protein powders out there as well. Mm-hmm. And there has been information that's, you know, come to light about vegan protein powders having very high heavy metal loads in them. Need to sit down and do the research, really. And that's my job, is I've gotta find the cleanest, the purest, the best quality, best source raw material, you know, protein powder that I feel I can confidently recommend to my clients, to anyone, you know, anyone that has a conversation with me really, you know, behind that, you know, there are also sometimes agendas from people around just, you know, sponsorship. And that's the reason they're kind of saying use this. Unfortunately, we now live in a time where the discernment filter matters more than any, any time before this because There's so much coming at us. And so that overwhelm, when people feel that, I just tell my clients to step away from the phone, like get off those platforms because they're just making it worse. Because I feel like after COVID, the level of health anxiety that people experienced exponentially grew and it hasn't really changed since then. And if you are experiencing a chronic and complex condition and it's a really big part of your life, it often feels like a full-time job to manage. You're probably doing your own research, your algorithm is probably fueled by what your interests are, and so I talk to people that say all I see is cancer in my, you know, and all I see are these fearmongering posts and grifters who have these promises of things being The solution to all your problems. I've got news for you. There's no magic bullet. Unfortunately, health is more complicated than that. And the fix is, is, is more effortful as well. But I really do think that taking a break, if you know it's negatively affecting how you feel about yourself and your condition, is the best thing to do. And ideally sourcing Good quality advice. And I know that's not affordable for everyone. That's what upsets me, is affordable healthcare can be really hard to get, and that's why people go on their phones and look for some free advice. But yeah, the discernment filter 100% needs to be on.

So getting back to the, like, the testing and people's symptoms, when does change over time deserve attention, even though maybe the tests aren't showing are still in range, are still what people are saying considered normal.

I think you've got to go by your signs and your symptoms and how much your quality of life is being impacted. Do not underestimate the signals your body is giving you. They are things to pay attention to, not to get anxious and, and catastrophize about. It's more about getting curious, you know, and noticing, because nothing in your body happens in isolation, Rita. You know, everything is connected. And sometimes a mood problem is coming from your gut microbiome. You know, it can be that your, you know, your stress levels are really impacting your mood as well, or they can be creating inflammation in the body. Connections being drawn all the time. And the reasons test results often come back normal— I won't even get into reference ranges because sometimes being in the reference range is is the reference ranges need reassessing. They will differ across different countries, but also what's optimal, you know, versus what's normal. They're 2 different things. And I've done years of testing interpretation training to be able to spot what optimal should look like. And then there is also just the person's experience, how they're feeling. And it could be that what is brewing or what's going on is not a structural, full-blown formal diagnosis of a disease. It could be something that just still sits in the functional space and it's not properly got a diet— like, it hasn't got a label or a name to it, but you can still do something to reverse it before it becomes more serious.

We are— our bodies are all interconnected, and that is one of the frustrations I think people feel with how amazing medical science is, but the healthcare system is all siloed. This one looks after that, that one looks after this, and no one speaks to each other. And so you're left with all these pieces and you're trying to connect the dots and, you know, have a care plan that brings it all in, which is really frustrating.

Yeah, it's, it's such a, it's such a— yeah, the siloing of specialties is a major problem because Psychiatrists should be trained in how to prescribe HRT, you know, because anxiety and depression and, and low motivation that hit women in their 40s is not necessarily going to respond to an antidepressant or, you know, a mood stabilizing medication, because quite often the root cause is because of estrogen decline, or, you know, that it's not necessarily purely a neurotransmitter problem. This is where you see this kind of overlap where there can be a problem in a system that is not the specialty of the cardiologist, but you know, that's who you end up seeing. I think one of the lessons from COVID was more of an openness to these kind of ambiguous multi-system problems that come up for people with long COVID, right? Like for years before COVID before the pandemic. We didn't have much empathy or support for people with fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome because it was just— there was no pinpointing root cause and understanding the pathophysiology of the condition. So people got dismissed. Then long COVID became a thing and everyone could get a referral to a cardiologist, a rheumatologist, a neurologist, get an MRI, get a CT, get like all like All this stuff was available. And so I'm glad now that there has been this kind of change around and an openness to further exploration of the chronic and complex. But you're right, the siloing keeps people from accessing the connections being drawn. That's where functional medicine can be really helpful.

Over time, more and more people will start becoming open to realizing That if you have digestive problems or if you have SIBO or if you have irritable bowel and they'll go, oh, I'm going to go to a gastroenterologist. I'm going to have a colonoscopy, an endoscopy, you know, but they show, don't you believe, they show structural. They don't necessarily show bacterial or some other form of problem that may be in there. So they, people go to that. Mm-hmm. They get the results. They say the usual, nothing remarkable. And they go, oh well, it's not that then. But it could be.

That's the end of the story. Yeah, that's the end of the story. Diet, and then off you go. I don't want to see you again. I get that because you know they're taught to look for pathology, and so it's really great to have the scopes and rule out anything more sinister. We don't want inflammatory bowel disease. We don't want colon cancer. Look at the colon cancer rates going up, you know, because of the low fiber diets. I think. To a large extent, we're just not eating enough fiber. Anyway, that's another conversation. Gastroenterologists are coming to the table and understanding SIBO more now, being taught more and prescribing more prebiotic fibers. There is an awareness, but it's taken 2 decades. You know, I've been working in the gut health space for 20 years, and I saw the FODMAP kind of wave come through back, you know, the mid to late You know, the early 2000s with Sue Shepherd and Professor Gibson out at Monash, it was the way to kind of just get a client who kind of had IBS type symptoms out of your office and go try a low FODMAP diet. That became problematic because you're starving the gut microbiome of these really important fibers and people are left on these diets for the rest of their lives. So I'd see someone that's been low FODMAP for 15 years. And their microbiomes just dwindled and they've got, you know, they've got extinction of beneficial species that's happened because no one really got to the root cause. You know, like why did you become intolerant to high FODMAP foods, Ben? So always looking for the root cause. And

there's so many, isn't there? There is whether it's a motility issue, whether it is a genetic predisposition. You have to go right, like you said before, right down to that root cause and That's why I love, you know, functional medicine so much. What would you want a woman to ask after hearing everything looks normal on your test?

Yeah, it's, it's, I, I often am coaching clients and almost sort of scripting what the conversation with their doctor needs to sound

like. You've given them a PDF.

Yeah, pretty much. Say this, this, and this. No, this, this, and this. So if they've been told everything is normal and they're not feeling normal and they feel like more testing could have been done, like maybe, you know, you've got 2 pages of tests back, that's not enough. That is not going to be enough. I would often go to a second opinion if I felt like the doctor's not really being receptive. They're not willing to really take any further steps to help me explore this. With every client, I do give them for whatever they're going through. List of tests of interest for that particular sign, symptom, system, and questions to ask their GP. So they'll have that there and they've got some options. You know, if you are a woman who's over 40 and in perimenopause, I'd be just saying, you know, I've heard that there is increased, you know, heart disease risk in women my age and older. Could we possibly look at doing a cardiovascular check? Can we look at my cholesterol? Can we look at my fasting fasting insulin and my HbA1c is built, you know, fasting glucose, because they will start to give you information about long-term health outcome risk. I'd be saying, you know, can we look at my thyroid? Always talk to your doctor about your family history. If there's any family history of autoimmunity, you can bet that, you know, you've got at least a 50% chance of also carrying autoimmune propensity. If you have family history of thyroid conditions, any kind of estrogen-dependent cancers, like, they're really important for the conversation around whether you should— what types of HRT, or whether HRT is a good option for you. All of that stuff needs your family and personal history will help, but you ideally— the doctor's asking all of those things too.

I'm curious about the HRT. I've been told that if you haven't been on HRT prior to 60, it's really dangerous to start at 60 and beyond. What's your opinion on that, if, if you do have one?

I think it comes back To the individual's personal history. I also, so, so if they have had a history where they had problems gynecologically with conditions like fibroids, endometriosis, adenomyosis, often these are estrogen-fed or kind of, yeah, they are sort of estrogen-fed conditions where it's not that you're, you were producing too much estrogen when you were menstruating. It's just that the off-ramp for metabolizing, for detoxing that estrogen after it's done its job in the body was possibly impaired. And that's usually genetic predisposition. So you could carry gene mutations for phase 1 liver detoxification pathway enzymes that just mean it's a bit slower. And for phase 2 as well, a bit slower at being able to clear the O4 and the OH16 forms of estrogen from the body. Now there are tests. Is a functional medicine test that looks at estrogen metabolites in your urine to see the forms you're excreting and how high a level you excrete them while you're, while you're either taking HRT or you are, you know, still cycling and producing your own. I think if you had those sorts of conditions while you menstruated, if you've got a family history of breast cancer, ovarian, uterine cancer, personal history of those cancers, Then I would be having a bigger conversation. Your doctor or a gynecologist who is very well trained in being able to prescribe hormone replacement therapy and going from there. If you're in your 60s and you're getting recurrent UTIs and you've got terrible problems, genitourinary vaginal problems, and and you're not sleeping all of It's, it's definitely worth exploring. I wouldn't say that there's a cutoff. We're using bioidentical hormones now, and we can change the dose. It's not like the, you know, HRT our mothers had. It's— you can— there's a lot of wriggle room around starting very low and building up and, and then retesting and just seeing how it's being metabolized. So you can monitor these days as well.

Sometimes the impact of not having The hormones is greater than the risk of starting regardless of age.

Absolutely. You've got to protect your brain. You've got to protect your bones. Got to have quality of life. They're the, they're the things we're weighing up and having a better one-on-one conversation that's got a lot of detail in it and just future-proofing our health, but also making today much more comfortable.

So why are the 40s and the 50s so important to, for women And how they're going to age.

Yeah, well, it is that shift with perimenopause where we see estrogen is not just reduced to hot flushes and luteinizing hormone surges. Uh, it— you've got estrogen receptors all over your body, right? And as your muscle mass is declining and your estrogen's starting to decline, you're going to see neurological changes. So, you know, I know I struggle. I can't find the word, you know, that's that like Right on the tip of my tongue. That is a big sign for me. So brain health is so, so important to look after. And don't be confused with the cognitive changes that you might be experiencing at this stage as being, you know, a clue that you're going to have dementia later on. That is not the case. They're two very different sort of presentations. But also, it's that metabolic change. It's that uptick in cholesterol and insulin resistance that can predispose predispose us to type 2 diabetes, plaque formation in our arteries. That's what we're really trying to avoid here. It is a metabolic situation that we're trying to manage. They would be the, the 2 biggest things for women in their 40s and 50s.

Like we were explaining before, how Gen X grew up, like you said in your book, you know, Dettol, anti, you know, biotics, like destroy everything. And now we're turning everything around. What is The difference between what we should be looking at, the difference between lifespan and healthspan.

Yeah. And so this is where I talk to people and they go, I don't want to grow old and be older. Like, I don't want to live to 100. And I'm like, well, you probably are going to, right? Because as we get, we are living longer than ever and women outlive men. The, the difference is healthspan is we want our health span to catch up to what the lifespan is. It's a lot more years, but better years, you know? And so my whole approach is I'm just doing things today so that I've got less problems later. Like, that is it. I'm not trying to be like a high rocks fitness guru. I'm not trying to have the perfect diet. I'm literally just ticking the boxes in order to make sure that In 10 years, 20 years, I can play with my grandkids. I can travel with my children. I can do all that stuff. So I really look at this kind of midlife point as an opportunity, right? I don't look at doing health as a punishment. I don't think of it as being too hard. It is hard, but it's hard in a good way. In an era of living where everything's frictionless, you know, food can just turn up at your doorstep cooked for you. You know, you've got Uber Eats. You've got online shopping. Like, there's no tension or friction anymore. And I think that's the thing that doing health, it brings in a little bit hard and it takes consistent consistency. I think the compounding effect of that is super satisfying and you feel better for it. So I'm constantly saying to people, you've got an opportunity because your genetic predispositions are going to come and start to play out now. Look at your parents. That's your future. You can change the trajectory of your life by making some key decisions, and then the ripple effect of them on the rest of your body is deeply felt across your systems.

Yeah, I agree with you with the— there's no friction. Everything is instant. I want something, I wanna watch a movie, tick, instant. Oh, I'm hungry, let's go on my phone, order something. I don't even have to get outta my pajamas. to have takeaway.

Yeah, we used to wait until Saturday for like the once-a-week movie being on telly at like a certain time. And now my kids are like, I want this now, I want this yesterday.

When it comes to like we were talking about, you know, the lifespan, the healthspan is becoming a little bit more intentional about what we do. You know, just stop and think because all of these things that are automatic and so easy, you don't actually have to think about anything. You don't have to think about how it was made, how it's going to get to you or anything. All you have to think about is getting your cutlery and answering the door. You know, nothing else is thought about, the whole process. When something does start going wrong or they start feeling symptoms, how do you encourage them to become more curious about what's happening as opposed to developing anxiety about it?

Yeah.

They may not have developed that resilience around, okay, this might, you know, that problem solving. This may be this or it could be that. Let me be a bit I'm curious, you know, I've heard quite a few people just go from 0 to 100. There's no thinking in between. It's like,

yeah,

I'm gonna die.

I guess my advice would be step away from the phone and do not Google your symptoms if you know it's going to provoke anxiety. Do not use a tracker, like take the wearable off. I took my Garmin off about a year ago and it was really freeing. Like, I typically used it as a running plan kind of device, but, you know, it gives you all this information about yourself. Yeah, most of it's accurate for the most part. I mean, I'd take that data with a pinch of salt, but some people love a device. They love tracking. And there we were talking earlier, right? Lots of health apps are trackers, or they're kind of collecting data for you and your records. But what we're missing is the health navigation kind of part of this and the knowing what's right for me. If you step away and go to and create your version of trusted advisors, there are some people in the health space who I inherently trust as being unbiased and being very evidence-based. Are very sensible as well. I would only really listen to them, and I would only really work with my. I'd find a really good doctor that I could build a relationship with long term, that I felt heard and saw me, and was there to kind of work with me in collaboration and have me be part of my own health journey because that's also empowering. That's all I would allow in. It's a personal situation. Not everything that's out there is going to apply to you, and it will tip you into overwhelm. And health anxiety if you let it.

I like the personal situation. I like that, that you actually touched on that because we're so open these days. You know, everyone tells their story on social media, everyone gets feedback, you get followers from sharing your story. Nothing is sort of held tight to the chest sort of thing. Everything's out there, which is great in one way because you can get a lot of support, you can get a lot, you know, especially people on their own. Yeah. Dealing with something. But like you say, you do open yourself up to a lot of information, opinions, and confusion. For the woman who's— or the man, like you said, you do deal with men as well— who's feeling overwhelmed by everything, what is the one major thing you would like them to take away from reading your book, The Health Edit?

Yeah, the book, the book kind of answers that question. It's the book I wanted to write for the person that doesn't know where to start. And so there is a questionnaire in there and on my website as well. You can do the electronic version and it'll score you. It'll tell you out of the 9 edits I've got diet, digestion, detox, stress, sleep, stamina, and then there's metabolism, movement, and mood. They're the main things I've seen in the the clinic that will influence how you feel. Now, you, you don't want to try and address all 9 of those at once. You're setting yourself up to fail. I've tried many times. I can guarantee you it doesn't work. By Thursday, you, you're done with the plan. So what we want to do is identify the area that needs your attention the most, and then in the book it talks about the one essential change. And this is what I've seen work time and time again clinically That will help you move the needle in a positive way. And nothing in there costs money. You could just do the recommendations without a supplement, without an appointment to the doctor, without needing to see a naturopath or a functional medicine practitioner. They are the foundations. And then when you're ready to take on more, there's a Go Further checklist. You can, you can take on more, but health is hard in the sense that knowing where to start can be really tricky based on your individual circumstances. So this is kind of my way of going, how can I help you know where to direct your attention? So, um, I would say start with the diagnostic because that will give you a focus.

I agree. I think that would be incredibly helpful for someone who's overwhelmed because one of the things they say when they're overwhelmed, they don't, like you say, don't know where to start. They're in chronic pain or they have complex condition. I don't want something else on my plate. What, now I have to change my diet? Now I have to get up and move when I'm in so much pain? Now it just becomes like a big hard no. So like you said, just do one simple thing. Maybe just take out processed food.

But yep, that's the diet, isn't it? Just eat real food. And that— and, and actually the difference that makes to how you feel if you did that for 3 continuous weeks, it's unbelievable. And you don't need to do it all overnight. Like, you can build it in slowly. It's just swap things as they run out from the Like, the whole thing is about just being sensible, realistic, pragmatic. It's not sexy, it's not glamorous, it's not going to go viral, but that consistency around good small changes is what wins the race. It's the compound interest, you know. It's, it's boring, but it works.

And would you agree to do all that before you go racing, to have the big DEXA scans and all the big healthspan type of scanning they do at $100.

I do all that, Rita. Like, we do biological age testing and send people off for DEXAs, and we look at all the— there's so many cool tests out there. You know, as I said, the foundation for the house has to be there before you start putting the walls up. So you're not going to nail all these things, but you will get some really good wins if you are exercising regularly at a that is good for your body, right? And that's what we're getting curious about and listening for, is like, what's good for me? Because what's going to be great for you is going to be very different for the next person. Yeah, it's— and not comparing yourself to the people around you. I mean, I see so many women, sadly, you know, now their, their Instagram feed is just full of like women with muscles and they're toned, and I'm like, they're probably on GLP-1s. And you know, you don't know, like, you don't know what the reality It's Instagram veneer.

Exactly.

So they end up feeling bad about themselves. We can't compare ourselves.

Yeah, stay in your own lane and just get curious about yourself, like you said. Susan, it has been amazing having you on, and thank you for sharing all that information. I'm sure so many people are going to walk away after hearing this so empowered and also know that they can just start with one simple thing, like small step to start themselves on a much better healthspan for their lifespan.

That's right. Yeah, it's been a great conversation. Thank you for having me.

You're welcome. And for everybody who's loved this conversation, all of Susan's details will be in the show notes, including where you can buy her book. So do connect. It's been fantastic. Thank you.