Optimize Your Wellness | Exploring the Power of Your Lymphatic System

If your lymph nodes are swollen, you can feel them right underneath your skin. This is not, um, deep. You don't need to cause pain to make it effective. This is more gentle work. Sometimes I go a little deeper than a featherlight touch, but it— if you would imagine squeezing an avocado or a peach to see if they're ripe, that's the type of pressure you want to start with. So this doesn't have to be very aggressive. You want to work with your body and, um, get it flowing in a way that's right for you.

Hello and welcome to Beyond Diagnosis, a podcast to raise your awareness, decisions, and voice for alternative practices so you can take back control of your health. I'm Rita De Michele, your host, a mindset and empowerment coach, and the founder of the Onus platform. Join me each week so you can create the health of your dreams. Welcome everyone to today's episode, all about your cellular and lymphatic health and why it's so important for a healthy life. Heather Cresson is a cellular optimization specialist specializing in chronic pain detoxification And the lymphatic system. Hello, Heather. Welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you. I mean, the lymphatic system and cellular health, I mean, we're getting right down to the grassroots here of, you know, optimizing that for people to then take off and start looking after their health. So, you know, why don't we just dive straight in? And I would love to know a little bit about, you know, your background and why you're so passionate About helping people to get to the root cause of their health issues and to learn a little bit more about this cellular, cellular health and what that means for people.

Well, I started out as a massage therapist. I've actually been doing that for 16 years. And one of the things I, and I love the industry, but one of the things that frustrated me is that you'd give a massage and somebody would feel better for about 2 hours. and then their pain comes back. And I don't like results like that. So, um, over time I started asking different questions like, okay, why is— why is this person's pain coming back? Why did it get worse after we did the massage? And you just go down these rabbit holes and you realize a lot of pain— I mean, sure, we have postural things, we have musculoskeletal, but a lot of that comes from chronic inflammation. And so you start asking about, well, Where does inflammation come from? What systems in the body help manage and regulate inflammation? And you get this wonderful world that takes you down to that cellular level, and it really shows you how everything starts working together. So many people are looking at one specific system in the body, and, and I have loved this industry and in my education because I get to look at how all the systems work together. And that's where I've really become passionate about healing down at that cellular level, because as our cells heal, we start to heal. If our cells get sick, we get sick. But when our cells heal, we heal. So I've been on a journey of that for 16 years. And, um, I'm asking questions every single day, learning more every day. My clients have been my best teachers and it's been a fantastic career.

That's great. What I really like about what you said and Is that when you massage someone and then they get worse, like everybody feels like if you're going to do something, you should be getting better. But sometimes, unless you understand that sort of, like you were saying there, that grassroots, that cellular level, we don't get to the, the point, to the essence of why is someone feeling worse after I've— Like you, after you massage them. So Let's go back to the cellular optimization and what you do for that, and especially explain a little bit of what the lymphatic system is for the listeners, because a lot of people, I guess, you know, are a little unsure of what that is.

Okay, well, as I look at a person and as I'm looking at their healing process, I want to know what things do their cells need in order to be healthy. So for all of us to be healthy, um, we need the ability to get rid of waste and toxins, the capacity to adapt to stress, and we need oxygen and nutrients. Um, so that comes back to your drainage pathways. In, in order for our cells to be healthy, we need waste and toxins away from the cells, else the nutrients and oxygen can't get in. So So the very first thing, we have to make sure we're having regular bowel movements. And, and that's kind of a given, but a lot of people forget about that. Um, they think it's normal to go every couple of days, and it's not. We really wanna be getting that out of our body daily. Um, but then you want the, the liver working well. You want the bile flowing. Bile is incredible. Sometimes we forget that it's important because at least in America, we just cut out the gallbladder and say, ah, you don't need it. But, um, bile is a binder. So when we get those toxins, uh, bile binds to a lot of that stuff, takes it to the colon, and allows it to be eliminated. So bile's amazing. But then as, as you go deeper, you get to the lymphatic system, and this is the one that I love. I've done so much hands-on work with people, and, um, a lot of times we only think about it in relation to, um, a swollen lymph node if we get sick, or if somebody has lymphoma, cancer. But the lymphatic system is so much more than that. So if you'd, if you'd imagine an aquarium and you've got all the plants, you have the coral, colorful fish, and that water is crystal clear, it's continuously infused with life-giving oxygen. In that environment, life can thrive, but the conditions within that tank are maintained by the filtration system. So that underlying network of Pipes, filters, and pumps, however fancy you want to get in your, in your fish tank. It's essential for maintaining the health of your aquarium. It's going to filter out the waste, debris, and the toxic buildup and keep everything healthy. But if you think about what happens if the pumps stop working and your filters get clogged, you get the water gets cloudy, the slimy green algae starts covering everything, and then your fish get sick because they're starved for oxygen and nutrients. And you could empty out the tank, you could scrub everything in it, and then put the fish back in and put fresh water. But if you don't fix that filtration system, your aquarium is going to return to that sick, diseased state. So our lymphatic system is like that filtration system, and it cleans away the waste and the toxins all the way down to that cellular level. So it's going to bring nutrients to the cells, but it's also going to take all that stuff away from the cells and really bring that Um, health and life to it and take away the stuff that is, um, a, a waste or toxin. And then that comes back into the bloodstream, goes to the liver to be processed, and then it goes either out through the kidneys or the colon.

That's amazing. Like, I think it's true that if I envisage the lymphatic system for people so they can have a visual, Is it not look a bit like our vascular system, like all our veins? It's like from head to toe, all the way. It's all the way through.

Oh, absolutely. Everywhere. Everywhere.

And then people have, like, I think people understand, they've heard of lymph nodes, you know, in our, under our arms, our groin, our neck or whatever. But I don't think people actually realize that unless you have this lymphatic, like you were just saying, this lymphatic system that pumps really well to get the toxins out, That could be a cause. Would you say that could be a cause for their migraines, their tiredness, their digestive upset? Is that a cause to all of those? Could that be like the grassroots of what's causing a lot of that for people?

It's a huge part of it. I don't, uh, for some people it is the root cause. Other people are dealing with, um, chronic viral infections, with mold, with, uh, parasites, all sorts of different things, or, um, Environmental toxins that they've been exposed to. Some of those things can impact it, but the lymphatic system—it is so powerful. And if that's not work well, if the entire lymphatic system shut down, you'd be dead really quickly. But it's—it's an amazing system. It touches every single part of our body, every organ. We even have a part of the lymphatic system—it's in the brain called the glymphatic system. It's most active when we're sleeping at night, and that's like a power wash for our brain when everything re. regenerates and cleans out. And, um, it just, it goes everywhere. So it's tied to every single disease that we could encounter.

So my understanding for myself, um, around the lymphatic system, if I was to look at a symptom, my understanding would be, uh, water retention. That would be For me, I would think, you know, if I've got water retention or swollen ankles or swollen something, that is connected to my lymphatic. Would that be right?

Absolutely. Yeah.

So what are some of the symptoms— what are some of the symptoms that people would have so they can recognize that if they have a clogged or poorly functioning lymphatic, uh, system or a poorly functioning detoxification system? What are some of those so people can start recognizing this in themselves?

There, there are so many that can be unique to people, but, um, or to every single person, I should say. But if you're waking up in the morning and you're tight, you're stiff, you're sore, um, that, or just chronic pain and tension throughout the day, Um, it could be headaches. Some people get a, a persistent cough or throat clearing, sinus issues. Um, obviously, like you said, swelling, bloating. People could have, um, chronically bad breath or body odor, and some of that is in gut as well. But we also have gut-associated lymphatic tissue that's all throughout the gut. Very— it's very cool to look into. Um, skin issues. So if you have Uh, dry or itchy skin, that can be a sign of lymphatic dysfunction. And then, uh, any place that has a high concentration of lymph nodes. So like you were saying, in the neck, in the armpit, in the groin, if you have swelling and tenderness in those spots, it's, um, definitely a sign that your lymphatic system needs attention. But it can also be, uh, poor sleep, chronic fatigue, um, that brain fog. So many different things. Um, are linked to the lymphatic system and lymphatic health.

So when people, um, come to you with all these symptoms like you were just explaining, um, where— how do you determine where to start with them and what do you do?

That's really where I go back to what I had touched into before, is that you start looking at how the cells are working and what the cells need To be healthy. So, um, that ability to get rid of waste and toxins, the capacity to adapt to stress. Now, have, have you heard of the vagus nerve?

I have, but I'm not sure the listeners have. So if you could actually explain, okay, the vagus nerve, that would be terrific.

Oh yeah, the vagus nerve is incredible. So it, um, starts in the brainstem. It comes out near the jugular foramen, which is kind of behind that angle of your jaw. And it goes so many different places in your body. It touches your heart, your lungs, very powerful in the digestive tract. It innervates your liver. So it's going to help your liver function. It's going to help produce bile, all of those things. But the 2 key things that the vagus nerve does. It helps regulate the body's inflammatory response, and it also, um, it, it regulates the body's fight-or-flight response. So if people are having trouble regulating stress, if, if they just feel like, I'm doing everything and I can't get out of this stressed state, we— I start looking at the vagus nerve with people. Um, and, and sometimes that comes into their posture, um, how they're breathing, because the vagus nerve comes through the diaphragm. So as the diaphragm descends downward as we inhale, um, that's going to stimulate the vagus nerve. And this is why it's so cool to look at how everything works together, because if the lymphatic system is backed up, it can put pressure on the vagus nerve and disrupt its function. So instead of just looking at the vagus nerve, I look at how lymph is moving around that. And as we get lymph flowing, that improves vagus nerve function, which helps our body begin to regulate stress better. And when our stress levels decrease, our cells can start healing, and then you get more nutrients and oxygen into the cells. So another thing I look at with people is their breathing patterns. If, if they're breathing high into the chest and doing that, and you can see their neck muscles tighten up. That's automatically a sign that somebody's in a state of fight or flight. And though that's good, like if we're sprinting, if we're doing an activity that requires an increased need for oxygen, that's great. We don't want to be breathing like that all the time. It, um, it's going to keep our body stressed. And so if we can do more of that diaphragmatic breathing, it's going to help put our body into a healing state. So that's going to help regulate stress. As the diaphragm moves downward, it helps pump lymph. So all of these things are working together in order to help our bodies heal. So those are some of the very first things I look at for a person, because they can take care of that stuff immediately. If you're dealing with different root cause issues, those might take a little bit longer. But I just look like, hey, can the body— can the body get the waste and toxins out? Because if you want to do a detox, You, you can't do a detox if, if you're not pooping, if your liver's not working well, if your bile's not flowing well, you're just gonna get, um, those Herx reactions or feel, um, very sick, maybe flu-like or get headaches, and you're not making the progress you could if everything was working together.

Well, that makes sense when you think, um, when people do a detox and then they, like you were saying, they feel so unwell. With that detox. And this goes into all the trend of doing, you know, a green juice or a 21-day cleanse or whatever. From people just take it from social media, but they're not really understanding. Like you were just saying, if you start disturbing the toxins or trying to get them out of your body, if it's not optimized to be able to do that, well then where are they going? So where are they going?

Yeah, they're circulating. Well, they can circulate in the blood bloodstream. Sometimes people do those detoxes and they get really bad skin reactions. That's one of the ways it comes out. So if our liver and bile aren't working well, it can come out the skin. Sometimes it comes out the lungs. So just making sure those pathways are clear and working well is a huge part of detox that people don't think about. And and I think we could alleviate a lot of suffering in detoxes if we would just do stuff in the right order, uh, because people get afraid to detox. They're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be very sick. I don't have time to be sick. I don't wanna be pooping all the time and live my whole weekend on the toilet. If we did stuff in the right order and just were gentle about it instead of forcing all these green drinks and cleanses and all sorts of shakes and smoothies in our bodies, if we just prepped our bodies properly. That would really help detox in a gentle way.

What does— for the listeners, what does prep the body mean for them? What does that look like? And what would they do to prep before they go and launch themselves into a more heavy, you know, um, detox? What, what is a— what is a prep? How do they start opening up That pathway that you're talking about in preparation for— especially because so many of them do it on their own. They don't go and see someone like you or a nutritionist. They don't do that. They, they see it, they read it, and they go, I'm going to try that at home. This is going to be great for me. But like we're saying, they don't understand the stages. So what does that prep look like, or what can they do?

For me, I might have More of a boring answer. I don't have this fancy answer that people are always looking for. I don't have a—

We need, we need the boring because the boring weighs hard. Everyone's got you covered. The magical and the— no, we need the boring.

So the very first thing, just making sure you're drinking adequate amounts of water. And everybody knows this. It is a matter of doing it, but that's going to help help you have more regular bowel movements. That's— and, and that's the very first stage. You want to be, um, having normal 1 to 2 bowel movements per day. But if you're prepping for a detox, and if you're actively doing detox, maybe more like 2 to 3 bowel movements per day. Um, sometimes— well, a huge part of detox is taking away the toxic burden that's coming into the body in the first place.

Mm-hmm.

So What chemicals are we using to clean our home? What personal care products are we using? What foods are we putting in our bodies? So at least in the US, we have a huge problem with those rancid seed oils and vegetable oils. Those things are very toxic to the liver. So if you're trying to detox the liver and improve its efficiency, take those things away that are negatively impacting its function. I mean, that's a— that's been a huge problem here. I don't know about in Australia if they have—

if That's prevalent, but yeah, we have a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Canola oils.

Just taking away the things that decrease that liver function. Um, to get bile moving, if people look up certain bitters, you've got them at health food stores and all of that. Take it about 20 minutes before a meal and that'll help get your digestive juices stimulated and tell your body, hey, we're going to eat. Let's start, let's start getting things moving. And then obviously, as you get into detox, taking very specific binders. I know a lot of people will take activated charcoal to use as a binder, and that's a fantastic one. Binders have also come a very long way. But what I mean by a binder is— so your body is releasing certain toxins, a binder binds to that toxin and takes it out of the body. So We've got bile, which is our body's own, um, binder, but sometimes we need a little bit of help.

And is that especially—

And then for me—

Yeah, no, please go ahead.

Oh, and then like, as I'm working with people, I really start focusing on that, um, lymphatic health and getting the lymph moving, because as that fluid moves, everything else starts moving. So, um, although we need a healthy liver, To produce healthy lymph, I get lymph moving right away. Um, it— and sometimes if people are very sensitive or if they're very toxic, it can, uh, give them a detox reaction like a, a fever or a flu-like symptom, maybe a skin reaction. So that's just a sign, hey, slow down on the lymphatic work, just do a little bit at a time. But those are all the things I integrate, and it's It's not funny, but it works.

How, how effective would it be for people to integrate things like, um, I've read about dry brushing for the lymphatic system, or I've seen lymphatic massage. Is that effective to getting your lymph flow moving Or is that another trend?

I'm so glad you asked that. I love this. There are wonderful lymphatic therapists, and you'll have a couple different kinds because there are people who are specifically trained to help individuals after a surgery or if they've had a lymph node removed. They are fantastic therapists. They're highly trained. They're wonderful. Seek them out. They do an amazing job. They've really been to a high level of training to learn that. Um, phenomenal therapists. Another portion, or another part of that, is when people are doing it just for general health, and people are trained a little bit differently in that. People have different opinions. Typically, when you're seeing dry brushing recommendations, they say go from the extremities inward. I think of it a little bit differently. If, if there's a traffic jam, you're not gonna get anywhere by getting the cars at the back of the line to move first. There's not a place for them to go. So you have to get cars at the front of the line moving first, and then traffic can start to flow appropriately. The lymphatic system is very similar. Our lymphatic system drains into the subclavian veins, which are right behind the collarbones. So I always think of clearing the lymph closest to the area where it drains first, and then the lymph can start moving from other places in the body. So I just work from here downward and outward. I, I always do the head and neck. It's such a cool place. If there's a lot of lymphatic congestion in the rest of the body, then it'll be a little bit harder for the head and neck to drain. But I've, I've found really amazing results with With brain fog, with headaches, with tooth issues. If somebody has a root canal or an infection at the base of the tooth, getting the lymph moving under the jaw has been incredibly important and sometimes clears up those infections 100%. I'm a person that happened to— I was supposed to go in for a root canal and couldn't get in for about 3 weeks, and they had taken an x-ray and saw infection at the base of the tooth. I did lymphatic work for 3 weeks and it was completely gone based on the second x-ray. So I didn't even need a root canal. And I know those aren't good anyway, but that's, that's the power that comes with it. And so going back to the, the order, I think the order is very important, but at the end of the day, just make sure you're doing it. Make sure you're moving. It's, it's, um, a, a very powerful modality to integrate.

So can you tap those points to get it moving? How would— how would— how did you do that when you had the, the tooth? What did you do when you said, oh, I got that moving? Was that a physical thing that you did? How did you do that?

Yes. Have you ever seen those gua sha stones? It's like a misshapen heart.

Yeah, that they run along their jawline.

Yes, they— I know those have gotten so popular. I love that thing for head and neck work. Um, so the very first, I, I don't have one sitting here, but I just start moving downward. Um, and you can, you can do a stroke.

So for the people who are only listening to this, you're actually moving from the jaw down to the collarbone, down your neck. That's what you're doing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I'll do, um, I can do circles by the collarbone just above it. You can tap it like you mentioned. I'll do that, and then I'll come and work down the neck. I'll come right from behind that angle of the jaw, and you can do circles back there. You can do tapping. Then I'll go under the chin. That's a little bit easier to use your thumbs on, and I just work my way back underneath the jaw, kind of along that jawline. And lymphatic work, this is not like a deep tissue massage. If, if your lymph nodes are swollen, you can feel them. Right underneath your skin. This is not, um, deep. You don't need to cause pain to make it effective. This is more gentle work. Sometimes I go a little deeper than a featherlight touch, but it— if you would imagine squeezing an avocado or a peach to see if they're ripe, that's the type of pressure you want to start with. So this doesn't have to be very aggressive. You want to work with your body and Um, get it flowing in a way that's right for you.

So it's very gentle work. We don't have to go in and start really digging in there. It's very— it sounds like it's kind of surface. It's sort of— you can feel it on the surface and just— it's a very light touch.

Absolutely. And as I get to know people, I'll do a little deeper work than other lymphatic therapists would. Everybody's gonna have a different body, a different touch. They're gonna know what works best for them. But I always encourage people start out lightly and then increase it as your body gets used to it. But for head and neck work, that gua sha stone is fantastic. I love it.

Oh, great. Because I've seen it and I thought, well, there we go, another trend. But you're saying it's great. Well, it's a useful tool.

It really was. Um, when COVID hit, a lot of people were getting, um, brain fog, neurological stuff, things with their eyes. I— my vision got really bad when I had it, and I started just using that stone. I did my head and neck work 5 to 6 times a day for just a minute at a time, maybe 2 minutes, and within 2 weeks, those— my eyes felt better, those massive headaches went away, and I felt a thousand times better.

That's great. Going back to when you— circling back to when you said about exercise and exercise for the lymphatic. So how important is diet, the right nutrients, and lifestyle habits to optimize our cellular health and our lymphatic system? Can you speak a little bit about each of those?

Like, what is probably one of the most powerful things you can do? Um, the things we put into our body can nourish us and help us heal, or it can do the opposite. And so I really focus on the most nourishing, nutrient-dense foods and try to get as many of those into my diet as possible. And as I get those into my diet, it helps cut those cravings for other things. Not 100%, but when you're nourished, you're not going to have as many of those, uh, cravings and I would say susceptibilities to different things or to bad choices or any of that because your body's just doing well. It's when you start nourishing it correctly, it's not going to be as stressed physiologically. And so it It automatically, at least in my mind, helps you start making better choices. Obviously, obviously there's emotional stressors and other things that come in, but as you start nourishing your body, taking away that stress, your body can start to thrive. But, um, the toxic things that come in with our food and how our food is grown, even with our water supply, that at least in the US we have glyphosate everywhere, that Roundup. And so it's, it's in the water, it's in the air, it's on the food, and we need stronger systems to be able to deal with that stuff. But be mindful of what we put in. Exactly. And then our body can really get to work on, on doing deeper healing.

Let's go a little deeper into that. So we have a lot of chemicals on our food. We know that we've got a lot of pres— you know, there's a lot of preservatives in our food. There's a lot of chemicals that our food is grown with, the soil is depleted because of mass farming. What do you start seeing in people? What is the impact? Like, I know that you like to talk about that, you know, that whole process and the impact on our health. Can you speak a little bit more into that and what you're starting to see with— if you're starting to see the impact of that with your clients, you know, like You see that cellular health is getting worse over the years because of the impact of what we're putting into our bodies. Like you were saying, really nutrient-dense food. But if you're not having that nutrient-dense food, what's happening?

I've seen so many different mineral deficiencies, and that, that can manifest in a lot of ways. Specifically in my work, a lot of people are getting Muscular pain. They'll get a lot of cramps, and they come to me because they're hurting. But it's more based along mineral deficiencies versus just a musculoskeletal problem. And if we don't have even the proper balance of electrolytes, so that's that's a really cool part. We need those minerals in order to hydrate ourselves. No, we're not just going to find pure water everywhere in our body. It's Accompanied by minerals, and you have water coming into and out of the cells, and we need electrolytes to make that happen. So that's your magnesium, your potassium, your sodium, your calcium.

Hmm.

And, um, and a lot of people will take different supplements for that, but then you have to look at the ingredients that are on your supplements, and are they using different fillers or lousy ingredients that Are creating more of a toxic load that our body has to process. Yes, there. Oh my goodness! There are so many things, but even just supplement companies looking at what they're using in their supplements that are supposed to be making us healthy—that's a big one.

That's a big one. And then no, keep going. Oh no, I was just saying that's a big one because people trust supplement companies. And they have no idea that sometimes, you know, like, especially if, if people don't want to go to traditional medicine and, and medication, and they put all their faith in supplements, which, you know, I'm a big believer in supplements, but you have to do your research. You have to look at whether it's third-party tested because there's scrupulous people in that area as well. And sometimes you think you're taking something that's going to be so good for you And it's actually doing more harm than good.

And keeping up with companies that used to be wonderful, but then they got sold and then people start putting in lousy products. It's a lot to keep up with. I spend quite a bit of time just looking at who buys out who and seeing if the quality of that product goes down.

I've done that as well. It goes back to educating people about research. Like, if you want to start looking for yourself and you want to start advocating for yourself, one of the main things I think you have to do that research though. You can't just blindly go on the internet and read something and think it's fabulous without doing that research. So it pays point to actually speak to someone like you first. But let's go back to what you were saying, you know, when I asked about lifestyle, and, and circle back to you, you were saying about movement, exercise. Now, how important is movement to the lymphatic system and to your cellular health? Like, what's the impact of having an overly sedentary life?

Well, the, the best way to get your lymph moving is through exercise and through movement. And, and it doesn't have to be an intense workout or any of that. It can just be going on a walk. Um, the movement, the downward movement of our diaphragm when we breathe is considered a movement and is a powerful pump for our lymph. So, uh, that's, that's one of the best ways to do it. Some people do rebounding, jumping on that little trampoline to help get their lymph moving. But don't make it overcomplicated. Just go out for a walk.

And that's enough. That's enough to get the whole— because the lymphatic system, from what you've been saying, is my interpretation for the listeners as well, is like a pump. Like, I, I think of it like a pump. So it's, it's pumping fluid. Is it pumping fluid around the body? So is it pumping this? Yeah, the lymph, the lymph fluid. And so it's a pump and it needs to take it out. So then just gentle movement would keep that pump healthy. Is that what you're saying?

Yes. Now on my end, when I'm getting it, getting people clinically, sometimes they have more significant lymphatic blockages that really need touch to start releasing it. And Working areas with a high concentration of lymph nodes, working that very specifically. And there are plenty of ways you can do that, but, but just, just move and that's gonna do so.

So my understanding of this is fairly important, I think, for people to start learning how to get their lymph moving. At home. Would you say that that's an— it's, it's to take responsibility so you're not always running to someone? Is— so what are some of the ways that someone can get their lymph moving at home? Like, if we can— we've talked about, you know, tapping on the neck, we've talked about, you know, going for a walk, we've talked about, um, eating well. Is there anything else that you can suggest? That people can do like floor exercises, I guess? Or is there anything that we haven't discussed that can help people take action at home to get their, keep their lymph, their lymph moving well?

Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll talk through it for people who are just listening, but if you, um, I, and I won't do it for the sake of a microphone being here, cuz it's an irritating noise, but if you tap your chest just underneath the collarbone. Uh, tap it maybe 5 or 10 times and then rub it in a circle. Do that to both sides of your chest. Then go to your armpit, do the same thing, tap it, move in circles. Go to your abdomen. That'll take a little bit deeper work just because of the layers of muscles and everything that's there. But make a little fist and just tap your abdomen and then tap into your groin. Do those circles, tap behind your knees, and again do circles. And then, uh, come up and do those same things that we talked about earlier in your head and neck. Just even that, 6 or 7 areas to work, very powerful. And, um, you start working the lymph nodes in the right order and then fluid starts to drain.

What are some of the, the conditions that people can get From a poorly functioning lymphatic system. We know symptoms like you said, brain fog and, um, swelling, water retention. What are some of the conditions that a blocked lymphatic system can lead to? Some You know, can it lead to cancer, lymphoma? What are some of the things that it can lead to?

All of it. All of it. It, when I'm looking at different symptoms, I always consider that there's a lymphatic component to each of them. Um, so it's a very long list, but your autoimmune conditions, like you said, um, cancer, if any neurological conditions, I've seen great improvements in my clients who have neurological issues. And that can even come down to headaches and migraines. But when you get the lymph moving in the head and neck and brain, powerful, powerful results to help alleviate those and get fresh nutrients and fresh oxygen into those places that might not have had as much. Yeah, just, I just think if lymph is not flowing, anything can happen. We, we're always looking for symptoms and, and, or diagnosis, I should say. I, I don't— I'm not a physician. I don't treat, I don't diagnose, I don't prescribe. I just look at what's there and I'm like, oh, cells are stressed. They're not getting the nutrients and oxygen, and they're not getting rid of waste and toxins. And when that happens, anything can take root. It's just a matter of how it expresses itself in our bodies.

So what do you do differently? Like, a lot of people come A lot of people go to their medical provider and they may diagnose them with lymph issues. What do you do so differently than what they offer? They may offer medication. Most people, you know, we don't want to live on medication. So when they say to you, I've been put on this medication, I don't want to be on this for the rest of my life. You have a 7-step framework. Can you explain what that is and in a way that people can understand and what that framework looks like?

Sure. The, the very first thing we need, we need, if we're asking our body to heal, we need to give it the oxygen or the nutrients and the repair elements to do so. So what that looks like for me, especially in the beginning of someone's healing journey, there is some supplementation required just because our— like you were saying, our soils are so depleted, we have so many deficiencies, our food is not making up for that. So in the beginning, making sure people are getting the right minerals, the, the right vitamins to help fuel those processes. One thing I focus on is predigested amino acids because amino acids are the building blocks of Proteins, and that's the building block of everything in our bodies. So making sure that people are getting those. The next thing I really focus on that has been— that has gotten amazing results in practice is making sure that the drainage pathways are open. So like we talked about earlier, making sure you're having regular bowel movements, making sure that you are getting that bile flowing. And in the beginning, I do have supplements to help people, or I do recommend supplements to help people with that. But ideally, you want your body doing these things. You don't want to live on supplements for the rest of your life.

Exactly.

Um, there are root cause issues that people need to address, like mold is a huge one, and that can create so many different symptoms. But getting mold infections out of the body— but you need, you need cells that are strong in order to be able to do that. So I just look at mitochondrial health, Our mitochondria produce the energy that we need to fight these things off. So all of it's working together. Another part of that framework is sleep. Um, a lot of people, if, if they're chronically ill, they're struggling with sleep. Then, and the doctor will tell you, well, just get 8 hours of sleep a night. And you look at the doctor and say, well, I'm trying and I can't. I'm laying there for 8 hours and I'm stressed and I can't. As you get the lymphatic system working— Oh, this is a cool thing. Our lymph nodes are lined with sympathetic nerve fibers. So if you can't get out of that stressed state and you always feel stressed and you don't know, you don't— you're like, you're doing all the right things, but you don't know what's going on. Get lymph moving because as you get lymph out, that's going to help reduce stress within the lymph nodes themselves. And that can help your sleep. I love that. When I learned, I just learned that. More recently, I thought it was the coolest thing.

Absolutely. Sleep affects so many people.

Mm-hmm. And then we get so frustrated because we can't sleep for whatever number of reasons. And that's when I just go back to the nervous system, to the lymphatic system. Let's do some different things that don't involve sleep medications or just laying there breathing and being frustrated and Exactly.

Exactly.

And there are just a lot of components to sleep that I teach as well.

Can you go into a little bit in depth?

I think I've only gotten 3 parts so far.

Yeah, I know there's 7.

I could, I could go on forever about this stuff.

I just want to circle back before we continue with the other 4 quickly. Explain a little bit to people, like, so we've got the cellular health and you've just mentioned mitochondria. What does mitochondria mean to people? What is mitochondria? So, so people have a little bit of an understanding, they can, you know, they can visualize in their head. I'm a very visual person, so I like to visualize in my head when you say something, a cell, and then you see, you say something like the mitochondria in the cell. What is that?

So the mitochondria, you've probably seen them in your high school science books, but they're, they're part of a cell and they are what generate energy and it fuels all of our functions. But one of the other things they do is cellular defense. So if, if our body is overloaded with stressors, and, and those stressors can be from, uh, the food around us, from emotions, from prescription drugs, from alcohol, smoking, all of those toxic things that we know of. Um, if the cells are in the mitochondria are overloaded with those stressors, they shift out of energy production mode and shift more into defense mode. And that's— then we're not producing energy, and that's where a lot of our symptoms can take root because the body's too busy defending, and when it's defending, it can't heal. And it's not producing energy. So that's one of the very, very first things I focus on is, and that's where the minerals and the amino acids and that type of thing come in and other types of nutrients, but really making sure those mitochondria are healthy. And that takes me into another point that I focus on, which is our, the quality of our food, but specifically our fats. So if we are eating those rancid seed oils all the time, that's going to impact the cell wall and it impacts mitochondrial function. So then you're not producing energy. But fats make up the cell wall. Our cell walls, um, let nutrients and oxygen in and help waste and toxins get out. So if your cell walls are made up of rancid, nasty vegetable and seed oils, We're not going to be, um, efficient in those processes. And then our cells get sick and our mitochondria get sick. Then we're not producing enough energy and we become susceptible to all these other things out there that make us ill.

Is it— so if I circle back to what you said in the big— towards the beginning, was that these seed oils create inflammation. In the body. So yeah, is it the, is it the inflammation that these seed oils cause on the cell that stops the nutrients from getting in? Because most people know these days about inflammation in the body. So is it, is it that, is it, is it that that's causing the, the—

It does both. The inflammation around it and then the cell wall itself. Right. I tell you, every—

you know, you got to stop watching these commercials that push canola oil and safflower oil and sunflower oil, all these highly processed oils that, you know, the problem is, is that it's cheap. These oils are cheaper, and so you can understand why some people will go for them. But they're just not aware of the impact it's having down the line, like what you're saying. It's such a catch-22 situation, really. Can we touch on a couple of your other, your other steps there before we move to the next question?

Yes. Um, the other thing I focus on, um, is just the, the stuff coming in from the environment. So Um, I know we had talked about food, but, um, are you exposed to a lot of EMFs? Do you have your Wi-Fi on all night? Are you using a lot of Bluetooth devices at work? Those really impact our healing process. They decrease that energy production in the mitochondria. They can cause lots of different neurological issues, even behavioral issues, specifically in kids.

Mm.

Um, other things like the, the glyphosate, the pesticides, uh, herbicides, fungicides, all these things we're using in food production. Um, the, again, cleaners in our homes, fragrance things. There's a whole list of the environmental factors, but just making little changes at, uh, when you go to the store, pick up a healthier option. Even for toothpaste. Toothpaste is filled with garbage stuff. So just over time, switch, uh, to, to healthier options. Or even if your laundry detergent— go from your scented dyed version to a fragrance-free kind. Just little steps. It doesn't have to be super expensive or super dramatic unless you want it to be, but just make shifts little bits at a time when you go to the store.

I don't think a lot of people are aware, or they are becoming aware of the connection between those scents and the disruption it has on the body. Even things I've been reading lately about the scented candles, the artificial scented candles and air fresheners, and they have a dramatic impact on our body and ourselves. And even our hormones. I just don't think— I think people need to become even more aware and become more selective in what they're putting in their trolley basket at the supermarket if they want, you know, vibrant life, if they want energy, if they want, you know, to live vibrantly into their older years. It's what you're doing right now. Do you have a case study that you can share about someone who has transformed their health by following your framework? Um, especially someone who's come to you and they've struggled with conventional treatments, you know, they've— nothing's worked, they're trying to find an alternative. Do you have a case study of someone that you can talk about?

Oh yeah, this is, this is what I walk people through All the time. So there are there are lots of different people, and and as I work with people, it's a process. This is you. It goes as quickly or as slowly as you want it to go. And a lot of the times when people come to me, they're they don't feel well, so they don't have tons of energy to go do all these things. And no, they're not going to be working out. They're not going to go do all this stuff. So I try to work with people and. shift those environmental and external factors first. So I was working with one girl. She had very bad migraines, debilitating, and she had been to physicians. She'd done the allergy tests. She had been through allergy shots. She'd tried some shifts in her food, but We just started going through, okay, what's in your house? And air fresheners, it was a huge one, scented candles. And so to people who know, it sounds obvious, but she just had no clue. And she was very sensitive to those fragrances. So we started taking those out of her house and she got essential oils later on. But for a while, she just didn't use any fragranced things. She switched out her laundry detergent. She switched out cleaning products. And her headaches really decreased. The one thing that we did find in— and it never showed up on a food sensitivity test, but we found out she had a great allergy to black beans. And as she got black beans out of her diet, all the headaches were gone. So between just those minor shifts, like, that's a really quick story, just a few shifts and We found what worked for her, and she, she implemented those changes, and her headaches were gone. I love that story. Very simple. It's not that simple for everybody. People can be very complex. The stories I have can take hours to tell, but sometimes it's the little things and changing what's going on in our environment to at least lessen that toxic load that the body has to process.

Absolutely. And would you say that the immune system is involved in that? Like all those allergies?

Oh yeah, the immune system and lymphatic system work hand in hand.

That's interesting.

The immune system will say, hey, something, something is attacking me. It'll create that inflammatory response. The lymphatic system is what clears that inflammation away.

So then you have to find what it is within you personally, like you said with this case study, black beans. I've never heard of someone having a reaction to black beans, but you know, I've always—

The worst part, she was Cuban.

Of course she was.

Of course she was. She was not happy. That was the hardest part for her.

I could imagine. You know, you usually hear, you know, dairy or egg or peanuts or something like that. I've never heard black beans, but you know. What advice would you give to someone who isn't being heard by their primary caregiver? And how important is it— and how important, in your opinion, is developing that self-advocacy for your health? So number one, what advice would you give to someone who's not being heard? And how important do you feel self-advocacy is in healing?

Being your own advocate is, is, I think, the new healthcare, especially, especially here for your children. Oh my goodness, we— it's, it is the new healthcare. We have to be very informed, and, and that comes into our physicians and the healthcare professionals that we work with. If people are denying your symptoms and telling you you're crazy and it's all in your head, get a new doctor. There's there's a reason that you're feeling that way. And I meet so many people who come to me and they're like, "I think I'm crazy. My family thinks I'm crazy. My doctor thinks I'm crazy. It's all in my head." I'm like, "No, I can see all of these links, all of these things that are going on with you. You're not you're not crazy. Your body's having a very logical response to." essentially being poisoned by all the different things around. And we— but we have to take it into our hands to learn what those poisons are, because our government's not going to tell us, our doctors aren't going to tell us. And, um, everybody is unique. We're not all the same. We're going to react to different things. And just because one diet works well for somebody, or taking away fragrances works well for somebody, doesn't mean it's going to be that way for each individual. And so we have to learn about our bodies. We have to listen to our bodies and, and honor what they're trying to say.

Absolutely.

But at least, at least here, I'm, I'm never going to knock physicians because physicians have saved my life in emergency situations. And absolutely, they're fantastic. And yeah, I almost died and they saved my life. So that from food poisoning and that turned into sepsis. So I am here because Physicians are wonderful in that case, but when you have chronic illnesses and all these different things going on, they're very good at looking at one system in the body, but they're not looking at how all of it works together. And sometimes that has to be where we do the research and where we find stuff out and learn and listen.

Odd. I'm so on the same page with you. I mean, I think the medical system is amazing. It saved a couple of people's, 3 people's lives in my family. So incredibly grateful to them. Yet when it comes to long-term and chronic, which this podcast is about, it's for people with long-term and chronic, and they're not getting those answers, it's about being that self-advocate. It's about learning for yourself, doing the research, asking the questions, and then seeking out the help. light from someone like yourself. Which brings me to the fact to say, it has been amazing chatting with you today. I have loved this and how important it is to learn about the lymph system, getting this stuff out, and what that means for your cellular health, your long-term health, your energy, your vibrancy in life. This has been so good. I'm so happy we've had this chat, and I think everybody who feels sluggish or have swollen feet or headaches can learn so much. Please, everyone, Heather's details are in the show notes, so contact her, find out your root cause, do your health a favor. Thank you, Heather. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me. I had a blast.

Oh, fantastic.

Thank you.

I would love to know what was the biggest insight or aha moment you got from this interview so you can now speak up, take action, and make informed decisions for your health. And if you like this episode, get instant access to your free ebook, Alternative Wisdom Taking back control of your health at life-onus.com.