When Your Brain Will Not Focus No Matter What

Do you feel like your mind never stops and you often hear you're either too much or not enough? Dr. Jennifer Dahl knows that story well. Diagnosed with ADHD in her 50s, she helps women turn self-blame into self-understanding using holistic, real-life tools that work with your brain, not against it. If ADHD has ever left you feel— feeling overwhelmed or unseen, this episode is for you. Welcome, Dr. Jennifer.

Thank you so much, Rita. What a beautiful introduction.

Would you say— it seems like they say ADHD in women statistically seems to be on the rise. Now, would you say that that is mainly due to awareness and understanding about the condition, or is there an actual surge in the condition itself?

I believe it's an increase in the understanding and awareness. You know, we so much more. We're hearing so much more, and as we learn and hear more, then it just kind of snowballs. You know, so I believe that that is a very large part of it with a lot of things. But definitely, we just know more. We're learning more, and we're hearing more.

Why is ADHD so often misunderstood or undiagnosed in women? And why has it been like that for so long?

Um, for a long time, they didn't know a lot about ADHD, and actually, honestly, for a long time. what they looked at was boys and men, and a lot of the research was done by boys and men. And one of the reasons is there's different kinds of ADHD. There's the inattentive type, and there's the kind of hyperactive type, and then there's the combined. And many of the boys, especially the boys that were looked at, were the hyperactive, which is why when you talk about ADHD, a lot of people think about like an 8-year-old boy who's just all over the place, poor choices, can't control their bodies. And so whenever they talked about ADHD, of what they were talking about. And the girls tend to be more attentive or maybe combined. Up until just recently, they really didn't look at it and talk about it. So teachers didn't know about it. Researchers didn't do a lot of work on it. Doctors didn't know about it. And often it would kind of be seen as something else. So while if a boy was acting a certain way, they'd say, oh, he must have ADHD, it must be something like that. Whereas if a girl, especially with more of the inattentive kind of behaviors. They might be seen as depressed. They might be seen as not paying attention. It might be seen as more of like a behavioral or personality kind of quirk, actually. And teachers and parents, they might say, because you're not stupid, you know, you're very smart and there's a lot going on in your mind. The hyperactivity tends to be more internal. And so, like we talked about right before this, you know, teachers might be saying things like, you could do better. And part of that is because in certain areas you do do really well. A lot of it's internal. interest-based. And so if I'm really interested in something, like say I love English or, you know, literature or something like that, you know, it is so easy for me to just dive in and do everything. And so people are used to this certain level of performance maybe in students. And then there's other subjects that for whatever reason you're not that interested in or a little bit harder, and you just don't put forth the effort. You're just like not able to. And so that's where this, you could do better, why don't you do better? And then they— That turns into, are you lazy? Are you being defiant? Are you being difficult? Which is just very confusing because that's not what you're trying to do. And when you're young, you know, a preteen, a teen, a young adult, and trying to figure everything out anyways, that's really hard too. That just makes it all so much more confusing. So I think that so much of it is just not seeing what was in front of us and not knowing about it. which is why for so long we didn't know. And there's been more research and more information and more has come out. And I think as more comes out, we know more and you start to listen. And I know a lot of people, like, they'll listen to podcasts or they'll read articles or they'll hear somebody talking. And when they start to hear some of the traits, some of that all of a sudden clicks in their mind.

Mm-hmm.

And they realize, Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. And then they, they think about it more, and they maybe do some more research. Maybe they try to talk to a doctor who may or may not help. They may read books and start to put together these pieces about that's what was going on 10, 20, 40 years ago, and that we didn't know, that I didn't see.

Yes.

And that's also then partly why there's so much more now. Because then if I'm seeing it in myself, and maybe I talk to my sister or my friend or coworker, and we kind of start to both see things in each other or in somebody else. A lot of women sometimes find out or start to suspect when their own kids, if they have kids, their kids at school are starting to have some difficulties and the teacher or a doctor may suggest looking at ADHD. And in that whole process of looking at the student and asking questions, they start to see themselves or their spouse, partner, the other parent, or both. And so I think that's why it was kind of like there was a little bit, a little bit, because I mean, there are women who were identified as ADHD, but then it sort of blossomed because we know so much more and it's just become real fertile territory, I guess you could call it.

Especially for these young kids, those messages that they would have received, you know, Can't sit still, not good enough, can't fight. You can just imagine the belief system that they develop into then into adulthood and they carry forever. Let's talk a little bit why. What's happening in the brain? Is it just a dopamine issue? And do you believe that it really is attention deficit? Or is it just that we don't focus on what we don't like?

Neither. It's not attention deficit. We are perfectly capable of paying attention. It's, it's with directing it to what sometimes other people think is the appropriate thing. We very much can pay attention, and a lot of it is interest-based. So it's those deep dives, it's the things you're really interested in. And I think this is hard for other people to understand. But it's about— you're very much able to pay attention and have attention on things. It's what it takes to do it. So even if you're in a, say, a class— I keep talking about school because that's where we see a lot of it, but it could be at work, it can be in relationships— it takes a lot more energy to really focus on something when your mind's going somewhere else than for somebody else. And so that takes a lot of energy. You're not hearing and processing as much. Anytime you're losing— using a lot of energy, even like mental energy, you know, it makes you tired. Looking at all of that, I hesitate to talk about brain chemistry. I'm not a neuroscientist, and I know even with, with things like ideas about depression and anxiety that they used to label as having to do a lot with, with chemistry, brain chemistry, they're— There's some research backing off on that, showing that they didn't look at it quite right. And again, don't come at me, I'm not that kind of a doctor. It's a way of just looking at things differently. So the brain's firing in different ways. So it's different than what you might call a neurotypical brain, which could be much more logical, which more straightforward. So a lot of creative people, like if you talk to people with ADHD, They can be really good at coming up with lots of ideas, thinking outside the box in a way, which can be good, which can be overwhelming. And I think that a lot of people have been, have learned or have been trained to kind of keep that inside. So if you're at school or you're in a job or you're in a situation where if you get excited about something and you start coming up with all these ideas and this doesn't fit to what the agenda on the meeting is, where they just want one idea, You probably learned to shut it down. And so there's probably a lot of people out there that we don't really see or know because they've learned to keep it all inside.

Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

You've been trained, and by the time you're 30, 40, 50, you, you've been trained in a lot of ways and in a lot of situations to just keep it inside. Now, if you think that describes you, you may also find that there are situations where that's not true. So you may have certain friends Certain groups, certain hobbies, certain things that you do where you feel like you can just be you, and a lot of that comes out more. So your creativity, your ideas, your thinking outside of the box comes out there. And then sometimes that can even be confusing. It's like, who am I? Am I this person or am I this person? And you may feel that you feel a lot more real and a lot more relaxed and a lot happier. When you cannot hide some of that stuff.

Wow, it sounds like it's a lot happening for people all at once, doesn't it?

So, but it is in a lot of ways.

It is. And then on top of it, you know, I was reading that you say that ADHD is rarely kind of experienced in isolation. It usually is ADHD plus one. So—

I find that it is a lot, and a lot of the people I work with and talk about, and that could simply in a lot of ways be Because I'm working and talking with women and not young students. You know, some students, some people have ADHD plus a learning disability or other things like that. But what I find is that you may also be dealing with— you may be dealing with depression and anxiety. They can be together or they can be misdiagnosed. You may be dealing with grief and trauma. You may be dealing with— Like a traumatic brain injury, other kinds of things, because by the time you reach this point, a lot of things have happened to you and they kind of magnify each other.

So do you find that it's usually ADHD plus anxiety or ADHD plus dyslexia, ADHD plus addiction?

Many pluses. It's not just plus one. With some— with a lot of people you may find, you know, and the addiction is an interesting point because Some people, I'm not going to say a lot or all, will self-medicate. You know, if you don't know what's going on and you're being told these messages, you may choose to go for exercise to an extreme point, or food, or alcohol, or drugs, or tobacco, you know, all these kinds of things, because it can help you feel better in a way, or more in control, or maybe that's something you can control. So addiction, self-medicating is something that can be a part of it. They're also finding that eating disorders can play a part because again, if you look at the level, this is getting kind of deep, to which your brain may just be really full of a lot and you may feel unseen and you may feel like you're not doing enough. You know, we don't know how it happens, but like then that kind of goes into an eating disorder because, you know, people with eating disorder, A lot of it is that something we can control, right?

Yes.

If I can't control anything else, I can control how much I put in my body or if I regurgitate it or what I do. That's— so it gets really complicated. And so if you go to the doctor and they— I mean, maybe you have ADHD and maybe that's kind of coming out in an eating disorder and in some, you know, depressive kind of behaviors or things. And they're like, oh, you're depressed. Here's an antidepressant. They're missing all the other parts. 'Cause then if you're not dealing with the ADHD, which makes it hard to focus on the right things sometimes, and the lifelong stories you've been telling yourself, they're just kind of putting a bandaid that may or may not help on one part of it. You know, you've got a horrible flu and they just give you something for your sore throat to cover the sore throat. Is kind of like that.

Yes. Yes.

We're just, we're just kind of covering up a Band-Aid on one part of it, partly because I think a lot of them don't know. Also, you know, if you've been to doctors about things, they tend to specialize. The more you look into something, I found, and I know people talk about, the more there's a specialist, and the specialist only does the specialist. So if you have a cut and a sunburn Although those are both the skin, like the doctor may only deal with a cut. You have to go to somebody else for the sunburn.

Yes. Yes.

They don't, they don't talk and they don't know. And that puts all of it on you having to be able to show up and say, this is what's going on and this is what I think is happening and I need some help. And that takes a lot too, you know, that, that takes a lot of time and energy and belief in yourself. And it takes a lot of—

I find that I like to tell people, you know, advocate for yourself.

Right.

But to advocate for yourself takes a lot of discovery. And that's what you say, the time and the energy and the discovery to understand. It takes a lot of reading, searching right across the internet, talking to people, talking to other practitioners to try and then pull together. I find then you have this big bag of knowledge that you kind of have to pull the drawstring on to bring it all together to go, I, I think I sit here on the top. This is right.

And then you hand it to them. And I mean, then this is on top of, you know, probably working and living a life and doing other things.

And that creates the overwhelm that I feel ADHD already— people with ADHD already feel overwhelmed. Like there's that saying, um, people have 100 tabs open in their brain. And they've got so many things going.

Yeah.

And I think, isn't it, isn't it, um, short-term memory sometimes isn't the strongest in ADHD? So you can walk into a room, you know exactly what you want, you walk into the room and it's like, why am I here? You know? Or you go to write something, you've got this great thought, you go to write it down, as soon as you pick up the pen, it's gone. You know, that is frustrating. That's overwhelming in itself.

Yeah. And there's, there's different areas of executive functioning. And so they hit different people different ways. It's not like you broke your bone and the bone is simply broken. And my broken finger is like your broken finger, more or less, probably. It's, is it short-term memory? Is it planning? Is it Emotional regulation is a big part too, you know, having trouble with regulating emotions, which is then when you look back to when you were a teen or when— not you, but when we are younger and you're getting all these mixed messages and then you're emotional, and then that's where you start to hear, well, you're too emotional. And, you know, and you may still hear that and feel that, like, I'm so much more upset about something than somebody else is. What's wrong with me? And that's that's another way that it shows up. So ADHD shows up in these different ways. Not everyone has ADHD in the same way, plus the plus ones, plus what they've done. And then you go to a doctor who, even if they know a lot about ADHD, you know you're sitting in here explaining all of this to somebody and trying to get them to believe you. And that's, that's a lot. That's a lot of frustration. And, you know, I'm in, I'm in the States, and getting medical care right now can be hard. It's kind of a privilege for some people. So there's a lot of obstacles to, to getting that nailed down.

Absolutely. And it is hard to do it yourself, you know, especially because, you know, like you say, the presentations of it are so varied and so wide. And then on top of it, you're dealing with probably from years of being shut down and told you too much, you know, self-esteem issues that can sometimes inhibit us from moving forward. You know, you just think—

And you've learned— sorry. Yeah, you've learned structures, you've learned things that work or don't work, kind of work for you. Um, some of us, one thing with Some people, many people with ADHD, it's like structure is good. So like, I need to know what to do, but don't tell me what to do because I also don't want to be told what to do. But within structures, I worked really well. So I was in school, I went to college several times, I taught for a long time. And so this huge part of my life was within those kind of structures, bells and calendars. And I knew how to play that game. I knew how to play and fake, in some classes, the education game. And so it fell apart more when I wasn't there. And when I left education, something that I didn't realize was, as much as I might complain about some of those structures, figuring out how to move things forward without them was a lot of work. It's still a lot of work.

It is.

That's how, like, some people with ADHD, maybe you do, maybe you're in a job, a career, an office that really meets your needs, whether they're doing it on purpose or not, you can work well there. And then you move, you go somewhere else, and those structures aren't there. And then that's when it can seem like the ADHD really comes out, when it's— your structures have left. You have to find new ways of managing it.

Yes, that is— would be challenging because, yeah, like you said, structure is great, but you then you sort of feel like you rebel against structure because you're telling me what to do and I'm creative, I'm my own person. Yes, because isn't that— isn't that novelty, the seeking of the novelty, almost like a dopamine hit that they're after? They're after like a dopamine hit.

Yeah. And so if you're in a relationship or a job or a hobby where you can do that, great. But what if you're somewhere where that's not appreciated or frowned upon? And you can get really frustrated and burned out if, if they don't want to hear your, your different ideas, or there's no way to bring some novelty in it. I liked teaching English because within teaching a novel or something And even with teaching in certain ways, you can bring creativity into it and you can change it. So like, this time I can teach it this way, and this time I can teach it this way. So there was this creativity that I don't think I appreciated as much until I left and started talking to other people in other kinds of jobs where that isn't there.

So in, in all that, there's the word masking that people with ADHD, especially women, tend to mask. For those who don't know what that means, can you explain it? And how can people stop masking and start showing up as their true self?

So when we talk about masking in a most literal sense, it's like putting on a mask. You know, during the pandemic, we all put on a mask, um, when we went outside or when we talked to people. And if you think about it, when you were talking to somebody and they had a mask on, it was often really hard to know what was really going on, right? You couldn't see if they were smiling or frowning. You could see a little bit of their face, but you were just seeing this one little part of them. And so with masking, what you're doing is you're sort of then also presenting how I think you want me to be. So I'm hiding my ADHD-ness, my creativeness, my busy mind to show up how I think you want to be. So in school, you show up like this if you don't want to get in trouble, right? In your work, you do this. In relationships, you do this. And it's often different, so you're masking different ways, and you may feel like you're different people almost.

Hmm.

It may come out like, oh, if, if someone from my family meets someone from my work, They, they see a different me. There's like different me's that they're seeing. And so masking is when you're showing up and you are hiding yourself, basically. You have a mask on and you're trying to present how you think you're supposed to be presenting. So you're not being authentic. I'm not blaming, we do it.

Yeah.

You're not being authentic really to yourself. And it's exhausting. It can be like, it can be really exhausting. Like, it's the kind of thing where you go to a party with people you don't know, can be really tiring, more than so for other people, because you're spending the whole time, you're not yourself, you're not relaxed in yourself, you're, you're putting out this, this mask. To stop doing it, I would say, See that you're doing it kindly, with kindness to yourself. Recognize maybe sometime when you do it, or even maybe it's easier to look at your past. Oh, I see that I did this in high school. Maybe it's too painful to look at right now. Look at when you're doing it or when you did it. Think about why are you doing it. Think about what you're afraid of because you're afraid. Of showing your real self is what a lot of it is. And work on, like, again, a lot of this is hard work for us, for you yourself. Starting off small, looking at a space, a person you could try to drop that mask a little bit with. If there are people in your life who you trust and who you think want to help you, maybe they can help you. Maybe you could say to your best friend, I see that whenever we go to the book club, I think I'm doing this thing called masking, and I want to work on not doing it. And seeing what your friend— and maybe your friend can be a support. Maybe your friend can actively reflect to you what you're doing, because maybe you're not doing it as badly, or not as badly, but as much as you think you are. You know, a different perspective. Maybe your friend can help give you cues to that you're starting to do it, or help lead conversations so that you don't do it. So a support in some way, in a small situation where you can start to see success and start to see that if I go to this book club and I say some of the ideas I have when I was reading this book, they're not going to kick me out. You know, maybe the response is somebody says, oh, that's a great idea. You know, I hadn't thought of things that way. And so then you get some feedback and in one spot you're able to stop masking as much and then it can hopefully breed success. So let's try it in another place. Let's try it in another situation.

Yeah.

But there's not a magic pill or formula or saying that's going to stop it because you've probably been doing it for quite a while.

Yeah, and that reminds me of, you know, I know some people who feel like they hide away from life, or they just never feel— you speak to them and you can tell they just don't feel comfortable in their own skin.

Mm-hmm.

So it's almost like being who they are isn't going to be accepted, so they become, or they, you know, take on other people's personalities around them, thinking that that's the way I should be.

So, and people with ADHD aren't the only ones who do it. You know, people— I think that anyone who finds some part of themselves that they think is not going to be accepted, whether it has to do with gender, sexuality, race, ideas, politics, um, and are concerned about how they're gonna be treated because of that, do it. Yes, do it.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. If you're Not out of any closet, whatever that closet is. Um, you know, that's kind of what you're doing.

Yes. So tell me, how does— I know you, because you especially work with women— so how does ADHD shift as we age, you know, especially during the perimenopause stage?

So they're finding out more and more about hormones, which So there's the perimenopause-menopause phase, and then there's also when you're going into puberty, which is why girls tend to be, I think, in some ways diagnosed a little bit later than boys, because some of these changes happen when the hormones hit. You may also— so in the perimenopause-menopause phase, there's probably other changes that are going on. Your structures, we were talking about structures. So if you are someone, say, who has a family, who has kids, they're not little babies anymore. And so your relationship to them, your need, their need for you, however, is changing. They may be leaving the house. And so those structures that you've set up are changing. And we talked about how that can impact things. And then within that, perhaps changes within relationships. You may be looking at changing jobs or leaving work during these times. And so just flat out right there, I think women are getting more reflective and their lives are changing and these things they've set up are gone. And then when you look at what happened to all of us in 2020, you know, structures left all over the place, everything fell apart. Things changed. And I think we can't deny how society, how life changed also impacted it a little bit. Do we know what that is? I don't. I have ideas and I'm not even like blaming the virus or anything like that. I'm just talking about how our lives and how we related to people and how we set things up changed so much. And then you're in this point now. Where you're trying to figure out even more. Like, oh, realize I have, or I believe I have ADHD. Oh, my kids are leaving. Oh, I'm going through, you know, hormonal menopause. Oh, our world's changed. And it's a lot.

It is a lot. Everybody, would you say, especially because, um, we spoke about before how it can affect the short-term memory. And when we go through perimenopause and menopause, how many people say that their memory, their ability to function is, you know, diminished? Is there a correlation there as well?

So I think they're still working on that. I mean, obviously they both impact short-term memory, and so that makes it even worse.

Mm-hmm.

You know, one of the things I've noticed is one of the things I've dealt with and, and work and talk somewhat about is about grief, about loss with ADHD. Um, my husband died suddenly. And so when you have ADHD and, and with me having a hard time prioritizing and short-term memory and taking care of things I'm not interested in, you know, that aren't interest-based just from the ADHD, and then you have a death, what was a death, And all of those things that you have to do, anyone who's, you know, survived somebody who's died, you know, the list of things you have to do and keep track of, including all the emotional growth and everything you're going through, is a lot. And when you add them all together, um, it becomes even more. So I've got poor planning, and I've got poor planning, and yet I also have this huge more lit— huge new list of things that have to be done. That makes it really hard. Yes, yes, you go through, and it was a— it still is a process of, of acceptance and like, okay, and learning and trying different things, because that stuff, anyone who's, who's lost somebody, you know, it doesn't just go away.

Yeah, absolutely. Sorry to hear that. Um, when it comes to habits and lifestyle choices that may impact you having ADHD, A, what are they? And B, would doing what you're not great at, like a lot of the executive functions, would doing those repetitively help in the long run? Like, do what you're not good at so you can function better? So what lifestyle choices impact ADHD? And what, what, and doing the opposite to what you're not good at, can that help?

Okay, so let's talk about the lifestyle choices. Um, I believe, and I think there's research, that with ADHD or anything, lifestyle choices make a big impact. ADHD, many— I hate to say everybody with ADHD, but some people with ADHD have a tendency to have a hard time going to bed at night.

Yes.

There's a term, revenge procrastination, bedtime or something, where, 'cause you've been busy and all this stuff, shutting your mind off to go to sleep. And so this impacts your sleep, which we know does things to us. With ADHD, the feeding yourself can be hard, which sounds really strange, but it, first of all, it can be something like where you just eat one thing all the time, where maybe you over-rely on junk food, but there's a certain amount of executive planning that goes into like actually cooking a meal. You know, you have to get the recipe, you have to get the ingredients, you have to do all the steps, and that can be overwhelming when you're already doing other things. But when you don't do it, it impacts you. So for me, finding ways to Get food that's already made or extra helps, and getting exercise, just getting out and moving. All of those things that we know help anyway. I think they help your mind. They help you emotionally. They help you in so many ways. So I think that that's a yes and a no. I think there are definitely things getting better at them. If I have a hard time prioritizing lists. Like I will make a to-do list, and if I don't watch it, is a solid page if not more for a day, and then going through and prioritizing it. And so walking with other people, working on that, learning how to do that better, definitely, definitely helpful. I think that there are skills that we're not good at that we can practice and get better at. But I think I also want to be careful not to. Put more expectations on us and make us feel worse because maybe there's some things you don't have to do. Maybe there's somebody, some some things that if you are in a partnership, your partner can do. You both have strengths. You work off of that. Maybe there's things that you can trade jobs with somebody or hire someone to do. So yes, looking at what you struggle with and find out what's important to you. And working on ways to fix it, get better at it. But also, what can you get someone else to do? And then we also put a lot of things on ourselves that aren't really that important. So can we just let go of some of it? Maybe I'm trying to think of, of an ADHD trait that you could just let go of, like— Maybe you have a hard time remembering people's birthdays. So you can either— some people make sure it's in the calendar, and some people just tell their friends, I love you, but I have ADHD, and I show you in other ways, and I'm probably going to forget your birthday. You know, something like that. So kind of like instead of putting one more thing on us, like These are all the things that I do poorly because of ADHD, and I have to fix all of these. Like, these are some things I could work on to get better at. These are some things I could get help with. And these are some things I can, for the most part, let go of, you know, and not worry so much about, because you can't do it all. You can't fix it all. You can't do it all. You, you just can't.

And that's, that's really sound advice, because for someone who doesn't have a who has a neurotypical brain as opposed to a neurodivergent brain, they don't expect that they have to do it all and can do everything.

Right.

You know, and it's almost like a pressure that neurodivergent brains, or people with neurodivergent brains, an expectation that they put on themselves that they have to be able to do it all, that they realize that they're different. Sorry?

Asking for help is really hard.

Yes.

A lot of people have a hard time. A lot of women have a hard time. A lot of people with ADHD have a hard time asking for help.

Why do you think that is?

I think, well, there's— with ADHD, there's kind of the emotional regulation bit of it. And then admitting that You struggle with something because back to the masking, I can do it all. I can handle it all. My husband died. I can do it all. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. You know, and that that lasted for a while till that fell apart. But but yeah, I think a lot of it is we're trying to overcome what we know we don't do well with. So that you don't see it. I, I don't want you to see and know that. Um, yes, my secret notebook with all my lists in it. I don't want you to see my 100 tabs open because—

Yes, yes.

I have had people say, what, what is that? Or the, you know, the desktop, the file folders, all the, the things on your desktop.

Exactly. But yes, the disorganization, whatever it is, however it presents, you know, people can feel a bit of shame around that, which is, which is, you know, terrible. But you mentioned—

That's what my brain looks like.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So how can partners, friends, or even the workplace support, you know, especially women with ADHD?

I'd say, okay, so the workplace, I mean, there's some legal requirements that they need to do, but I say for everyone learning more, whether you're the person with ADHD, you're a partner, you're a friend, you're a coworker or boss, like learning more about what's really going on now, you know, get away from the 8-year-old boy and like really learning. And then also understanding that If you've met one person with ADHD, they say you've met one person with ADHD. So going to that person, or if it's your partner, and so what is ADHD like for you? What are you struggling with? Don't assume I struggle with being on time when what I really struggle with is prioritization or emotional regulation. So it starts with the person with ADHD. diving in and really seeing what their struggles are that are really important to them and learning about it. And then the people who care about them or work with them, understanding what that is, and together, if possible, coming up with ways to fix it. Because again, you have strengths, you have things you do really well, and celebrate those. Because I think we don't do that either, you know, in our— journey to be perfect and not let people know we're struggling, we also don't look at what we do well. It can be hard to then acknowledge that.

Mm.

And so partners, friends, coworkers, kind of looking at that picture. And when you think about it, it makes sense for everybody, but especially with people with ADHD, when you're like, look, I struggle with this, and if we could just do this one thing, it would really help, or if you could just do this for me, Or if we can make this one change, it would really help.

Yeah, but that's exactly— it makes sense, it sounds supportive, and I think also a relief that they've actually been able to say, you know what, this is who I am and I need a bit of help. There's no— there's nothing wrong with that, you know. Everybody does. For some reason, neurodivergent brains feel that that's the biggest thing in the world. But how many people ask for help? How many people say, I need it done this way because that's the way I cope with it, you know, can you support me in that? You know, it's, it's not complicated. So fantastic information. And I always like to end an episode with almost like an action that someone could do so they can take this information and then Very simply, like, what's one step for someone who feels like they're just surviving their ADHD? What's the first step towards thriving instead? Something simple they could even do straight away after listening to this.

I would say locate that one area that you feel like if you could make a change would make You happiest or the biggest change? And you may know what that is. It may be going and looking at one of those online ADHD quizzes where they really spell things out. And then working on finding one little— I talk about subtle shifts— one little thing you can do. Because we have a tendency to want to buy the whole book, the whole course, and do the whole thing tomorrow, which doesn't happen. So like, what's one little thing? Is it asking for help? Is it telling somebody what you need? Is it saying, I need help prioritizing this? Is it, on the other hand, realizing what you do really well? Like, maybe you're really creative and you are great at coming up with all these ideas. So you are, you know, in a woman's group or at work or wherever, in your family, You can come up with the creative ideas for the holidays, a whole bunch of them, whole bunch of them, and then other people can help narrow it down. So like, whether it's one little thing that I can change that's gonna make me feel better, or, you know, honestly really looking and seeing what you do well, what's good about you, because that could be a huge, a huge change, a huge just mental shift. I do this well. I like this about me.

That would be a big shift because we've all heard on— when I say we, I said people with ADHD. I'm sure they've heard enough of what they don't do and what they don't have, what they haven't done well enough, or, you know, everything else about it. So that would be a fantastic shift. I mean, obviously it'll help to just one little shift towards better self-esteem and awareness about themselves. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming on and educating us about, you know, ADHD and what it actually feels like. And, you know, like you say, you have it. Thank you for sharing those points. You know, it's, it's been very educational.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. This has been a great conversation.

You're welcome. And for everybody, if you would like to Contact Dr. Jennifer Dahl. Her details will be in the show notes. Her website's there, her socials are there. Do connect with her because, you know, help is not something to stay away from. Help is something that we should embrace. So thank you so much for, for making those points.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.