RACIST SOUTH AFRICA | This Conversation Changes Everything About SA Politics

Even Malema, by the way, doesn't enjoy the support of the majority of black people, but there's some white people somewhere who believe that black people believe Malema.

Black and whites and Indian and colored South Africans and others have worked remarkably well together, got on fantastic.

In real life, they mix it up.

They want the same things. They want to wake up tomorrow morning wealthier than they went to bed the night before.

Hospitals in white communities They work, and no one must disrupt that, by the way, because they are an example of how best to do things.

5-year scenario from now, I want the best case and the worst case. Do you think non-racialism has died off and failed in South Africa?

And here's the thing, I actually get very impatient with the popular narratives. One of the popular narratives that are doing the rounds is that there is a racial problem among South Africans. There's a fundamental racial problem among South Africans. It's all nonsense. I travel. I was in Limpopo over the weekend. Sanin. And I move around. I was in the Northwest. I'm going to the Eastern Cape. Let me tell you what I see when I travel. I see black and white every day. Every day, people doing stuff together. That's what I see. I live in Bronco Street. I see black and white doing stuff together. So if you travel across the country, you look at the way black people and white people and Indian people and colored people live, they don't have the problem that the elites, when they're having wine, think that No, they don't. They just work together. The problem is this: you have political entrepreneurs like Malema who are amplifying a problem that does not exist, and they profit from making people hate each other. So they tell you that black people have problems with white people. Here is the thing: even Malema, by the way, doesn't enjoy the support of the majority of black people. But there's some white people somewhere who believe that black people believe Malema. What's the percentage of Malema's vote? It's less than 10%. Now, less than 10%, it's actually not a significant number. So why would you think that? No. So this whole racial narrative does not exist. Where I live in Bronco Spruit, I have white neighbors. We have no problem. And I'm not the only one. Go to a school in the suburbs today. You know what you'll find? You'll find black kids and white kids. Now, what is the problem that people are talking about? The problem that is there, which is real, it's actually not a racial problem. It's fundamentally an economic problem. The majority of black people are poor. That is a problem. You need to address that problem and say, how do you get out of that problem? Because the Afrikaners also, at some point, by the way, there was a thing called the poor white. Problem. It was even a commission for decades, right? So don't racialize this thing and say there's a fundamental— no, say there is a component of society that lives in poverty. How do we address it? And I can tell you how you do it quickly. One, stop corruption in government so that state resources are channeled towards the empowerment of the poor. That's number one. Two, improve the quality of education, particularly maths and science, in black township schools and rural schools, and get SATU out of the picture. Yeah. Now, three, you need to bring back the moral integrity of black people. There must be discipline in school, there must be discipline in black communities, and there must be good role models so that black children grow up, go to school, they become professionals. That's how the Afrikaners, by the way, turn themselves around. So don't focus on the noise about non-racialism, this and the other. It's not going to take you anywhere. By the way, the problem that Black people have of poverty, the Chinese had it, the Japanese had it. Yes, there was no white person there who was hating. It was Chinese only. They have sorted it out. By focusing on the fundamentals of dealing with the problem. So here, look at us, the educated three of us, we are busy chasing our own tails here. Malema is making us chase our own tails. Correct.

So true.

No, we must stop chasing our own tails and isolate the rogue elements like Malema and focus on the fundamental basics of the problem.

Racialism is alive and well in South Africa, as we can see whenever there's an EFF rally, I think it's alive and well, sadly, kept alive by in many ways the legacy media. I think that this country could work. The reason I stayed and the reason I came here in the first case 45 years ago, I think it could work remarkably well. I think Black and whites and Indian and colored South Africans and others have worked remarkably well together, get on fantastically well together.

In real life, they mix it up.

They want the same things. They want to wake up tomorrow morning wealthier than they went to bed the night before. They want their children to be safe. They want their children to be educated. They want the roads to be safe. They want the police to be effective. They want the medical care. It's all very, very straightforward and simple. And this is what is not happening, I think, with a lot of people sort of think, oh, goes way over the head.

Do you think it's politicking and maybe—

Well, it makes it worthwhile from the ANC to actually have this divisive thing. Divide and rule. We get back to the old land thing. We were talking about it outside earlier on. All you're going to do as a Black party is to say, "We're going to give you the land." You say, "Oh." And no one says, "What do you want the land for?" "We're going to give you the land." "Oh, fantastic. That's fantastic. You got my vote, mate. And the KFC and the t-shirt?" "Yep, absolutely done and dealt. And the medical care." Land, t-shirt, KFC.

But they haven't done it in 10 years.

No, no, no. But this is the promises all the time. This is the problem. This is the problem with our level of democracy.

I think it's moving beyond that.

Hopefully it is moving beyond that, but that has been the sort of like con trick for the last 31 years. Meanwhile, we watch as members of the ANC, as Prince has said, and others get wealthier and wealthier, I mean seriously wealthy.

5-year scenario from now, I want the best case and the worst case. Let's start with the worst case scenario and end with the best.

Worst case scenario. Is to have MK Party winning elections in KwaZulu-Natal, crossing the 50% mark, and they take over the province of KwaZulu-Natal. And you have the ANC still being part of the government of national unity at the national level. This is what would happen.

Even the minority to the DA?

Yes, yes, the DA and all of them are still there.

Okay.

MK Party, they say we don't take instructions from the national government, we're running our own little show in KwaZulu-Natal. In fact, if you're a minister of the GNU, you are not welcome in KwaZulu-Natal. You know what that does? It plants seeds of secession, and this country can, can be Balkanized. That's very scary. It could happen. Best case scenario is to have a leader in our society who is going to say, I and other good South Africans, we are forming a new political party, and the political party will bring together the best of black people who are educated professionals who have done stuff in life. And the best of whites who are professionals, who have done stuff in their lives, and Coloureds and Indians. This is a party for all South Africans, and you have a lot of money supporting that project, and they win the elections. You can redirect the country that way. Or if they don't win, they get more than 40%, which is replacing the ANC. They could be in a government of national unity with the DA. That would be the best case scenario. So South Africans must decide.

So make it happen, Prince.

Come on.

I can't think of a better person to do it than you.

Remember, I'm a public intellectual. That's why you invited me here. I'm not a politician.

My role is to advise society.

So society must step up. Society must not say we were not told. Society must say, but you know what, this fellow and others have been telling us, let them do it.

David, you want to give a crack at the worst-case scenario?

Worst-case scenario, Bob, is that AI takes over our lives and corrupts elections and corrupts thought, corrupts things, all sorts of things, which is quite likely to happen because people believe what they see. And it's I don't know if Prince is going to agree with me, I'm sure he might do, is that the people will rise up and there will be massive violence and there will slaughter and they will take out the people who've stolen from them, particularly the ANC, people who've enriched themselves at their expense. But there will be no logical end to this whole thing. It'll be a complete dystopian situation. And I'm hoping I'm wrong on that. But you know, it's always, that's a worst case scenario. Best case scenario is everything we've discussed today, That common sense takes over, that Black, white, Indian, colored South Africans all realize that they can work together and that the actually aim is for them to all be better off and to actually create jobs. It gets down to your thing of education. Do the core subjects, do maths, do science, educate your people, educate your people, bring them up, give them a hope of jobs in the future, give them a hope of hope in the future. And then I think we are sort of there, but we are a long way from there at the moment, but it's not impossible. So that will be my optimistic view for 5 years as opposed to my very, very pessimistic view. They diametrically opposed as you know.

Yeah, as they should be. Which ministry would you close this afternoon?

God.

If you had to close one, which would you close?

What are you gonna close?

I'd close women and Women.

Isn't that hugely insulting? Sort of women, children, and other people with disabilities, as though a woman being is a disability. Get rid of that one. To be serious, that is a stupid one. Tourism, we don't need a Minister of Tourism, we need private enterprise. We don't need culture, with the greatest respect for the Minister of Culture, we don't need that. We don't need sports, we don't need all the other ones there. Well, we don't need small business because small business has been strangled by the government anyway, so why have Why is she in bloody Davos at the moment, for God's sake? We don't need anything to do with business because they don't understand business because they're actually trying to strangle business. So, you know, roads, transport, gas— I only asked for one.

Bring it down.

No, no, we've got quite a few. You've got quite a few.

I look at the interview. The obvious one, it's women, children, and people with disabilities. What do you think? I mean, here's the thing. This minister wakes up in the morning, right? What do you think? Where do you think she goes and what does she do?

Correct.

Because you see, I've had jobs in my life. So you wake up in the morning, you go to an office if you've got an office, there are reports to be written, there's this and that. What does this one do?

She looks for the woman, childish woman with disabilities.

But the problem is that you are interested in one minister. I would restructure the whole cabinet, by the way.

Agreed.

Restructure the whole cabinet and reduce it. I would not have more than 20 ministers.

You could merge some.

Yeah, I'd merge some. I would have 20 ministers. There would be no single deputy minister. Remember, deputy ministers are not even members of cabinet. Most people don't know that.

What are they earning?

A deputy minister earns something like 2.2 million per annum, plus pecs, chauffeur-driven, and all of that. All of that money I would rechannel towards the education of black kids. These are people who are taking money from the real issue. I would rechannel that money—

totally agree, totally agree—

to revamp public hospitals and clinics, public hospitals and clinics in black communities. Here's the thing, hospitals in white communities, they work, and no one must disrupt that, by the way, because they are an example of how best to do things.

Best practice.

What, what works in Black society, don't destroy it. Because if you destroy it, you'll have to travel, travel to London and to Germany just to learn on how to do things. We are lucky that we've got this functioning pockets of functioning institutions. So I would restructure the whole of government. Yes, I agree. And make sure that we fix what is broken.