Who Replaces Ramaphosa If He Steps Down From ANC Leadership

So when Zuma stood up, the entire hall of all the leaders of the ANC stood up and sang. And this time it happened to Mbalula, to everyone's shock. I have constantly, consistently said I think the DA is going to be the biggest party in Joburg this election, and I think Helen Zille is going to do very well because the ANC has made it abundantly easy for her. The parties in Parliament come together and they elect a president from outside politics, but a figure who commands respect across the aisle, heads down, petty politics aside, let's govern together. And then we'll pick up petty politics after that.

And do you think there's any chance at all of a Patrice Motsepe throwing his hat in the ring? Cyril Ramaphosa has to stand down as head of the ANC. Who will replace him? Because it's not an easy, there's not, there's no great bench there either.

True. I've got something for you on this. Cause I was on—

Cause you asked me and when we, you interviewed me and I said, I think I think it's one of two women, but I haven't got the names yet. One's the speaker, but I don't know who the other one is.

I think I might surprise you because I was on the ground at the NGC speaking to a lot of people, a lot of family, friends. Um, and it's quite interesting going back to ANC events. I think Mbhalula is the front runner by a mile, actually.

Okay.

Why?

Popularity?

So based on what the people offline said to me at the NGC, and remember you've got regional leaders, you've got national leaders there. You've got, um, you've got the biggest gathering of the party outside the NEC. So the whole party comes together and then you can get the temp— and of course those are the people who elect the leader. So you've got the temperature of the ANC there based on what they said. Number 2, in the buildup to the 2007 Polokwane conference, their 2005 NGC was, was, um, a kind of barometer. And there was this thing that has now become legendary called the singing test at the NGC. So when Zuma stood up, the entire hall of all the leaders of the ANC stood up and sang. And then, you know, Mbeki, not as much. This time it happened to Mbalula, to everyone's shock. As soon as he got up on the podium, I mean, it was quite a groundswell. And even Mashatile, I mean, I was very shocked to see Paul Mashatile got a very lukewarm response. And a lot of people were saying, look, He's, he's been a leader in the party for a long time, but we're concerned what would happen electorally if Mashatile took over. So based on my conversations with people on the ground offline, but also based on the temperature of, of the room when all the leaders were there, it was kind of like a singing poll. Mbalula looks, looks strong right now, I must say.

Do you think there's any chance at all of a Patrice Motsepe? Throwing his hat in the ring?

I don't know. And I think only Uncle Patrice knows that. But if he does, he'd be a formidable candidate. And I think that's the one thing that could tip the scales.

I agree.

Yeah. But I think really he's the one who needs to decide. I think he probably is choosing between possibly president of FIFA.

Which would you choose?

I would definitely choose president of FIFA. Yeah. So, yeah.

I don't want to put you on the spot for this question, but Prince Michele, in an extraordinary, I mean, one of your best.

Oh my goodness, yeah.

Said he grudgingly would back Helen Zille for Joburg.

Yeah.

And I get that emotion and belief. Would you agree with him on that? Do you think there isn't really an option? Let Helen do it, give her a shot.

I wouldn't publicly endorse any candidate. And I think probably from my position, it's not a good idea to do that. But what I will say about Helen Zille in terms of a perspective of analysis is that I think she's going to do very well in Joburg. And I think that the ANC will only have itself to blame because I know what's going to happen after the election. The ANC is going to blame the voters and say, how could you vote for Helen Zille? And they're going to talk about the struggle and the liberation history. And the fact of the matter is that with all that capital that they had in the bank, They squandered people's allegiance and the dire service delivery situation has put people in a position where they are prepared to try some crazy experiments.

Which would be Helen Zille.

Which would be Helen Zille.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I have constantly, consistently said, I think the DA is going to be the biggest party in Joburg this election. And I think Helen Zille is going to do very well because the ANC has made it abundantly easy for her. I mean, All you have to do is walk around and point out the breakdown. So, you know, I interviewed Helen. I've said to Helen what I disagree with her about, what I think the DA has done well. I wouldn't endorse her, but do I think she's going to do well? I think she's going to do very well in Joburg.

So, Frans Cronje says an interesting thing. He says it's actually a very good thing for South Africa. Democracy is working and the DA strategy is smarter than one thinks.

Here's his—

he says For the average voter who are kind of disillusioned with the ANC, have left the ANC, but not joined another party or are ready to leave, but what's the alternative? A lot of people in that camp.

Yeah.

He thinks two-thirds of the ANC would leave voters. Mm-hmm. They look at the DA and beforehand they might have thought, why come, you know, take us back to apartheid. You know, we'll lose our job, we'll lose our social grants. They're now looking at the DA. Well-behaved in the GNU, pushed back on VAT, not much else. And they're saying, well, actually, maybe they are, could be quite good. They're behaving well. They're good at governance. They're not going crazy. They're not going to reintroduce apartheid. And the DA is kind of playing a longer game saying we are a sensible option. That's France's view. And I can buy into that in some ways. I mean, I don't know the electorate well enough, but Yeah.

And France's point is probably correct from a DA perspective to the extent that I think they will be the winners of the GNU because for the same logic.

In 2029.

I think they're going to be the winners. Yeah. And even now in 2026, I think they're going to be rewarded. Um, like I say, in Joburg, I think a lot of people have started coming over, but for the country, I still just don't think it's going to go anywhere. Yeah. This GNU is producing. I really take issue with this, this green shoots argument, which I see, which I see coming back again. Me too.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I mean, we've been here before. How many times are we going to fall for the green shoots?

I'll give you some green shoots that aren't green shoots. Our rand has strengthened.

Yeah. But yeah, exactly.

That's because the dollar's weakened.

Yeah. They're two currencies. So now we give ourselves credit because one of them, no, it just doesn't make sense.

Foreign direct investment is showing interest.

Oh my goodness, please.

But nothing's happened.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, the stock markets and the bond markets have never been stronger.

That doesn't, yeah.

But that's currency, you know, the commodities have gone through the roof to your benefit. Exactly. Sure. There are no real green shoots at the moment.

Absolutely.

These are fake green shoots.

And green shoots for me would be, okay, unemployment has shown consistent downward—

Quarter on quarter.

Yeah, trajectory over a year. Growth is at an agreed level, you know.

2% plus.

Exactly. I think the president said in his 2025 SONA speech that growth should be at 3%. And now I see people celebrating 1.5%. So I'm like, well, what is the goal?

That isn't growth. Yeah, because— Because our population growth is 1.5%.

Exactly. So, and really 3%, this country should be growing at 6%, 7%. So, you know, an agreed target and, and I feel that would excite people, you know, a government that actually said, this is what we're doing. And if we don't do it, we failed. But right now it feels like middle muddle fiddle faddle. What I'd like to see in the short term is a true GNU. Crazy idea, but what is a true GNU? Hear me out on this, right? So. The parties in parliament come together and they elect a president from outside politics, right? Maybe a patrice or someone who they—

Prince Michele.

Well, yeah, that—

he's outside of politics.

That's true. That's true. Um, but a figure who commands respect across the aisle, right? And they agree it'll be an outsider, but they will vote that outsider in. And then you, uh, you have all the parties proportionally represented in a smaller cabinet.

I love what you're saying.

Yeah. And then for 5 years, heads down, petty politics aside, let's govern together and then we'll pick up petty politics after that. That for me would be a true G&U.

Here's the only thing missing in my view as a businessman.

Sure, sure.

You merged, let's say 3 businesses together because we're not talking about more than 2. The key job of the chairman or the CEO in creating the merger is set a mission statement on day 1. And what this current G&U hasn't had is a mission statement.

Absolutely.

So, you know, the ANC with its, in my view, antique, mad leftist, pre-Soviet ideology, and you have the DA with its kind of, you know, American Democrat liberal approach to life. I'm a Republican, by the way, as you probably know. Yeah. Yeah. I think the DA is a bit lefty for me.

Wow.

And, but they don't have a mission statement.

Absolutely.

You know, they're, you know, And the international Durkheim side is captured, my point, captured by Islamists, my view. And then the, you know, Park's tar, I don't know, is he a capitalist? Is he a communist? I have no idea. There's no mission statement to this GNU. It's like, try and get on without throwing our toys in the cot and bumble along and it's not working. For your GNU, which I absolutely love, they would have to have some sort of mission statement.

I agree with you. And that is, that is, um, a, an improvement on the idea because I, I fully agree with you. I, I can't believe we, how long are we into this GNU now? It's, it's, it's much more than a year. It's nearly 2, right?

2 years and 3 months.

Yeah, sure. And no mission statement, no vision, no, no policy, no, these are our goals by this time. It's just, sailing along and letting the oceans drift and we drift with the oceans and there's no pressure really, apart from voices like ours.

For your GNU, there'd have to be a lot more, they'd have to set a mission statement and stick to it.

Absolutely.

Which means foreign policy where they have to be unaligned. They have to.

And let's go further than a mission statement, a set of achievable outcomes. Which if they don't achieve, we all agree they failed and they must resign.

As ministers.

Exactly. You know, we will reach 4% growth by the end of year 5.

We will educate our children.

Exactly.

Maths results have got to improve. They've got to read for meaning.

Exactly. Yeah. Otherwise we all resign.