75 Ways You're Being Taxed (And How to Fight Back)

How many different ways do you think you pay tax?

At least 75 ways, that's my guess. Did you see my full detailed article I wrote on this?

No.

There's a section, a whole chapter in money matrix on all the different taxes we get charged. They come up with names, you know, they, they say insurance, that is national insurance, that's called a tax. So yeah, about 75 stealthy ways that we get taxed.

Rates, business rates.

Here's the funny thing, you know in vat, value added tax, where's the fucking value? Where's the value created in taking 20% off of us? So yeah, call it VAT rates, levies, insurances, tax.

So what are off the top of your head? What are the biggest stealers of your money? What's the taxes you spend the most money on?

Well, if you're an entrepreneur, a business owner, then you have to add VAT onto your prices. So you have to charge 20% more of which you don't get that because that's a tax. Yeah, you can claim some VAT back but you don't get it all back. So there's 20% of VAT then there's 25% corporation tax and that floats around 1925. And of course it looks like labor are going to be possibly putting that up. Then there's 45% income tax. However if you earn between 100,000 and 125,000 in that bracket, you get charged 60% tax. Then there's national insurance, there's employers national insurance. So I pay national insurance on everyone I employee. So I pay so I pay national insurance on everyone in so I pay national insurance on everyone I employ. And then this employees national insurance and they have to pay and they have to pay national insurance on everything that they earn. So they get their wage slip and they've got their tax that comes off their national insurance that comes off their student loan repayments that come off. Then there's business rates, there's all these compliance things that you need to set up data regulation. And that's just the start. And that's on what you earn. Then there's capital gains tax on, on assets. And by the way they're looking to put capital gains tax in line with income tax, which for me makes capital gain, which for me changes capital gains tax from 20% to 45%.

I saw a viral, I'm finished.

But now you can you carry on? Because I'll just, I'll go on and.

On and on about it's on that point. So I wanted to explore deeper, I saw a viral video yesterday and it was a guy suggesting that he should pay a higher amount of tax on investments than income. His opinion was, if I'm working for it, or if it's just, you know, generating passively. In his mind, he should get paid. In his mind, he should be taxed more on the stuff that he's not working for, but the stuff he's actually working on should be taxed less.

Yeah, I mean, there's an argument that if you are working a lot, it feels like theft and robbery to be giving it away. Because I've worked out. And you can read this section in Money Matrix on what you earn and what you spend, you're paying. Even if you're at the lowest rate taxpayer, you could be paying up to 60%. Highest rate taxpayer, highest rate taxpayer. Over 70% of everything you earn and everything you spend is tax, which means seven hours out of 10, you're working for the government. Three hours out of 10, you're Working for you and your family. 70% of your entire working life, you're working for the government, you know, for the police, which is fucked. For the roads, which are fucked. For the nhs, which is fucked. Our money is funding wars in other countries we didn't even agree to fund. I don't want my money going over to other countries to fight wars. I don't want to fight a war with anyone. So, yeah, there's an argument that the more you work, the less you should get charged. However, if you're a property owner and your country, like the uk, is not building enough houses and there's a housing crisis, I don't believe I should be taxed a huge amount on that because I'm solving the housing crisis that the government isn't solving. I've got a better theory. I think it's better. Flat rate tax, charge me 20% flat on everything. On everything and anything. 20% flat.

Why is it better?

Because it's fairer. So charge me what? So instead of vat, corporation tax, income tax, national insurance, or on everything I earn, charge me 20%. Am I going to leave for Dubai If I'm charged 20% tax? Probably not, no, of course I'm not. Am I going to pay it relatively gratefully and acceptingly if it's 1/5 of what I earn? It's a question.

Yeah, maybe.

Well, you pay more than 20% in tax, so would you be happy with a flat rate of 20%? Yeah, I would, yeah. So if you earn a billion, you're still paying 200 million. But if you earn a tenner, you're paying two quid. So that means that the person on the street, because, you know, the people on the streets, you know they earn 300 quid a day begging. Really? 300 quid a day? One guy I know, Rob, he's pretty famous around these parts. Beggar on the streets. He actually came up to me because he normally grabs me for a coffee. I get him a coffee every time. And I walked up to him going to Starbucks and I'm like, how are you, Rob? He's like, oh, you haven't got 40 quid for a bag of heroin, have you? He just straight up asked me, I'm like, rob, we've got to get you off that. He's like, yeah, I know. Second, I bought him a latte and he puts 22 sugars in it.

When he said, I bought him, I said.

But he earns 150 a day begging. Some of them earn 300 a day begging. Do you know how much tax they pay on that? Nothing. Do you know how much tax people on benefits pay? Nothing. Do you know how many benefits cheats there are? Loads. Do you know how many people who are on benefits who want to go back to work but don't bother because they earn less working than they do on benefits loads? Because I've interviewed all. Because I've interviewed them all on the street. So I've asked them myself, this is what they tell me. They know they're going on TikTok, because everyone in my city knows me and they know I do these videos and they know they're going on TikTok and they still tell me, so how is it fair that the professional beggar pays nothing? How is it fair that the person on benefits pays not nothing? The working and the middle class are paying 40, 50, 70% of earning and spending. And then the ultra billionaires, they're paying virtually no income tax, reduced corporation tax, because they've gone to another country where they don't have to pay it. The system is completely wrong. So if you wiped all of this and got from the beggar to the billionaire paying 20%, super fair isn't the problem. Another thing, sorry, go on. In the uk, you have a progressive tax system, which means the more you earn, the more you pay, which is basically me saying to you, I penalize you for the more money you make. How is that good for a country's economic growth? How is that good for attracting tech talent and overseas investment into this country? It is not flat rate 20% on everything I earn, whether I earn a pound or a trillion. And all of a sudden loads of people will start flooding back into London, will generate billions of, of extra revenue. And here's the thing, you know those billionaires who are paying 4% corp and virtually no income tax, not that I blame them, I don't want my money going into pothole roads that don't get sorted. There's roadworks everywhere all the time. The police is screwed. You know, our prison service is so screwed, they've just let out 1700 criminals early. So labor are imprisoning people for social media posts and putting them in prison for social media posts and then letting out 1700 criminals today early. That's broken and my money goes into that. The NHS is broken and my money goes into that. But taking the 4% that the billionaires pay, turning it into 20% flat, which they'd be fine with, all of a sudden releases trillions from the billionaires, helps the working and the middle class, encourages us all to want to start a business because we're only giving a fifth of it away, not 70% of it away. The economy starts to grow, money starts to flow overseas investors go, let's go back to London, problem solved. Within four years, within one political term, you could turn this country around.

For that to work, do you need to keep the tax system the same for employees? Because you know this, because you teach this, the best way to get your tax bill down is to have a.

Limited company or an LLP or an.

Yeah.

Or be self employed.

So is it Charlie Munger's quote? It's along the lines of show me the incentive, I'll show you the outcome. Right. And that's the same thing with business owners. Right? There's all these loopholes, but they're kind of done on purpose to encourage people to then start the business. And that's good for the economy. So do you have to keep the tax system shit for employees and let's say flat 20% for entrepreneurs to push more people into business?

Well, I understand why there might be various loopholes or incentives made by governments because they want to encourage a certain behavior and I don't have a problem with that. In reality, there should be more tax breaks for entrepreneurs and business owners. And I know this is going to upset some employees, but entrepreneurs and business owners take the risk. I don't have a salary. I mean, there's tax reasons, I don't. But the main reason I don't have a salary is because if I don't make money, I can't pay myself. If I do make money, I can pay myself. And if I make a lot of money, I get a lot of money, so I get the reward. On the upside, if I get a lot of money, there's no ceiling on my salary because I don't take one. But if I don't make money, and it's been a lot harder to make money in lockdown for a lot of entrepreneurs and businesses, business owners, I don't get paid anything. So I believe employed people should have a higher rate of tax, or at least less tax breaks in exchange for their safety and security of always getting paid. I think it's too high, by the way. I don't think people who are employed are paying a fair amount of tax. I think it's too high. But I think it's fair that they have less breaks and loopholes now. The entrepreneur takes a risk. They put everything on the line and there should be more breaks and more loopholes. But I'm talking about income tax. Flatten it 20%. They should encourage us to build property. They should encourage us to buy and renovate property. They should encourage us to employ. There are no tax breaks for employing people. There should be. If employment goes up, just give the employers tax breaks and unemployment comes down. It's simple. I'll say that again because I might have said it wrong. If unemployment goes up, surely you just give the employer some tax breaks and incentives to employ and then the unemployment goes down. Also, there's an onus on the government to teach people how to work. All these people on the streets and there is loads of them. You walk through Peterborough, it's like a fucking zombie apocalypse. You know, it is bad and I do feel for them, but it's bad. But you talk to these people, they know how to game the system, them. There's no benefit to them for working because they'll just get. Because they'll get paid let. Because they'll get paid less and they'll be taxed more. The government need to take some responsibility, go and educate these people, be a bit harder on the rules, like in immigration. Just be a bit harder on the rules. Anyway, I don't know what that is, but this is how I feel. It infuriates me. I was born here. This is my country. I employ over a hundred people. I've been an Entrepreneur League 20 years and they are systematically up the country, biting the hand that feeds them. You know, small businesses accounts for 55% of all the economy. That's just Small businesses and small businesses are the ones getting hurt the most.

So what do you do to fix that for small businesses?

Well, you stop raping them and raiding them. You stop 20% VAP, 25% corp, 45% income, 8 to 12% National Insurance business rates. Some small businesses pay 65 grand a year in business rates. A lot of small businesses don't make 65 grand in their first year. Why would you not support them, incentivize them, give them a year or two business rate? Really have a ratcheted or progressive tax system based on how long you've been in business, I. E. In year one, zero or five or 10, year two, year three, year four, support them. Them, they think, the government seem to think that there's one, the governments have two revenue sources. The government seem to only understand two ways to generate money. One, tax. Two, print money. Taxes stop taxes, reduce growth. Printing money reduces money value, increases prices, reduces spending power. So both those ways that they generate revenue, it's like you eating your own arms. It's you're hungry, you eat your own arms because you're hungry. Is cannibalism of the economy. How do they not understand this? If I can help you make double and I get 20% of your double, that's a lot more than me taxing you twice as much, but you making half. Duh duh, duh duh.

Well, yeah, if you think about it in a business context right now, I could put gun to your head and say, give me your 40 grand watch. Great. And I probably wouldn't get full price because I'm selling out on the black market somewhere. Or I could come and say, rob, you've got this going on. How about we join venture on this business, we go 50, 50 on it, which then turns over millions of pounds. Suddenly I could be getting hundreds of thousands of pounds rather than the 30 or 40 grand watch that I nicked off of you.

Yeah. The government do not understand collaborating with their people. So right now I and all my entrepreneur friends are talking about leaving the UK or leaving the UK or anyone that wants to come to the uk. We're disencouraging them. And anyone who's on the fence, we're suggesting they might want to leave the uk. How's that good for the country? We're the ones that earn all the tax revenue. Whereas imagine if anytime someone says to me, what's the UK like? I'm like, well, you got a flat rate tax. In year one you pay 5%, in year two you pay 10%. In year three, you pay 15%. In year four, you pay 20%. You got four years grace to build your business. Oh, and there's this relief and, and there's this fund. This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension. Pot gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years.

Years.

You probably know from my content, I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the Pension Gold Investing Guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invest in things that I invest into and gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com that you can apply for and there's this support package to start your business and they encourage employment, therefore they give you a prorated discount and they support with your recruitment fees. If I was having all these conversations because I know people all over the world, as does every entrepreneur, you're going to flood people back into the UK now, what you don't want, not against immigration, but what you don't want are hundreds of thousands of people who haven't got any skills, who can't work. You want thousands or hundreds of thousands of people who bring in money and employment and economy and skills and tech and talent. Yeah. So they don't understand collaboration. I don't know. There seems to be this fundamental disdain within the UK government for entrepreneurs. I asked Nigel Farage about this because I'm confused and he said, well, it's an old boys network, you know, they all went to Eton, you know, and A couple of the top high end old boys network schools, they don't like entrepreneurs they look down their nose at. I mean, talk about biting the hand that feeds you madness.

What are some of the stealth taxes that you wrote about in Money Matrix that people don't know about?

I'm gonna, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll read this out, okay? Verbatim taken from Money Matrix. Let's take you through the stages of a day. You wake up, you have breakfast which has had VAT and sales tax added to it. You get dressed of which sales tax are added to the clothes that you've bought, that's between 5 and 20%. You turn on the TV of which you've paid tax in the form of a license for and then any other channels now you have to subscribe to them all. So that's basically a tax. So you leave work, you leave your house to go to the office maybe, and your house is taxed not once but twice. You pay stamp duty on the purchase, sliding scale as it goes up. Here's the problem though. What they don't do is increase the bottom rates of tax. So when money is worth less and less and less and less and less, but they don't increase the lower rates of taxation and you essentially get taxed more.

So just explaining that one just to make sure I understand. So for example, your nil rate band of 12 and a half grand as they inflate, inflate, inflate, that 12 and a half grand is now worthless. But they've not moved that up yet. So that should really be 15, 18 grand maybe. Yeah, because that's been like that for years.

The lowest band doesn't go up with inflation, so your money goes down in value. Therefore the lowest band or the lowest amount that you can be taxed on goes down in value. Sometimes they don't put them up for 40 years. Pensions haven't been put up since the 80s, you know, the, the brackets, the bans. So it's a silent tax. By the way, inflation is a scam because it's man made. You know, if the government stopped printing money, you know, if the government stopped printing money, inflation would slow down almost to a halt. The government print money, the government don't need to print money. The government are money. The government don't need to tax if they're printing money and don't need to print money if they're taxing. But they do both. And the more they print money, the more they pay off their debt back door because you're not taught this properly at school. And then they reduce the value of your money. So I don't know how you felt in lockdown when, you know, all these support loans were coming out. You know, with all this furlough. I must admit initially I thought, oh, this is a good thing that a government are good. I must, I must admit I thought initially this is a good thing that a government. I must admit initially I thought this is a good thing that the government are doing until you see the bill of a trillion pounds three years later. And so you realize that trillion has to come from somewhere. It's either higher tax or more printing of money. More printing of money, your money goes down in value. More tax, the amount that you earn goes down in value. So you lose both ways. There's no inflation in gold. Gold doesn't go down in value, it goes up. There's no inflation in bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't go. Bitcoin doesn't go down in value, it goes up. Why? Because there is limited supply. Gold is predicted to go up to $3,000 an ounce by by bank of America. That's a 50% increase in a very short time. Gold and silver have gone through the roof recently with all this news of an impending recession, depression or crash. I'm also very excited to announce a brand new and long term partnership with Direct Bullion. This is not an ad or an affiliate link. This is a long term partnership. The owner of Direct Bullion has actually been a fan of my show for many years and myself and Nigel Farage have become the ambassadors for for Direct Bullion. If you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get the very best spot or under prices on silver and gold. You can learn about how to invest in silver and gold from the people who I buy gold from and who mentor me on my silver and gold investing. You can also buy gold and silver in your pension, which is something that a lot of people don't know about. So to save me answering the thousands of questions I get about investing in silver and gold, Simply go to robmore.com.directbullion.com Right now we have a banking crisis, a potential global recession, billionaires selling all of their assets to be liquid to cash in on the crash, banks going bust and taxes going up. If you'd like to learn how to cash in on the crash and not just survive, but thrive in challenging times, I invite you to join us at the Moneymaker Summit live. The link is Rob Moore Dot. I'm subsidizing a small number of tickets from my Rob Moore foundation, or for a very small upgrade fee, you can get special VIP tickets where you meet me personally. You'll get your book signed. There's a VIP dinner with six multimillionaires, there's champagne reception Q&As with three or four panel millionaires, and bonus money mindset sessions, as well as the special three days on getting your tax bill down, your income streams up, my eight stages of building wealth, my formula for riches, and much more content at robmore Live Money. The agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link. Robmore Life Money. Anyway, back to taxes. So you pay stamp duty and the amount you pay goes up every year because the lower brackets don't go up in line with inflation. When you own the house, you pay council taxes. And by the way, in some countries you pay state and federal taxes. So you pay twice. And then when you die, you can pay up to 40% in inheritance tax on the house and other assets you own. We haven't even got out the fucking house yet. This morning on our average day.

Just try and put my shoes on, Rob.

Okay, so you go to work, you get in your car which has VAT put on it. Then you have a car tax which are privileged to own a car. Then you have a car license. A license privilege to own a car. If you buy a car in a company, you get benefit in kind tax that can be up to £10,000 a year on a luxury car. Then there's fuel. There's a flat rate of tax in fuel of 40% and VAT added on top. Then you drive to London. Ulez. Ulez. Toll. Ah, toll. There's another word for a tax, toll. I think we've come up with five different words for taxes, David. Maybe you can clip that toll poll. Insurance value added no tax, also known as rape. So when you get to work, yeah, you've got to work. Now, there are five different taxes on a car. The, the taxes on the fuel, taxes to purchase it and licenses to own it. Okay, so you get to work and obviously an employee will pay between 20% and 45% income tax. On top of that you'll pay national insurance, which can be up to 13.8%. National insurance is supposed to be for the NHS. Okay? Now if you set up a company, you're going to pay VAT, 20% corp tax, 25% dividend, dividend tax, 38.1% national insurance up to 15.5%. Oh, and insurance premiums in business can be up to 12%. If you want to import, export, you've got freight tax, customs tax, duty tax and vat. Here are a few little stealth taxes you asked me about. Stealth taxes, landfill tax, climate change levy tax, aggregates tax, Music license tax, airport improvement tax, Airport maintenance tax, Airport passenger tax, Airport departure tax, Building permit tax, goods and services tax, Environmental tax, Fishing license tax, Good receipts tax, tax, Health tax, Luxury tax, Marriage license tax, Medicare tax, Retail sale tax, Water tax, Workers compensation tax, Carbon tax. Let's say you're fucked off with all this and you want a bit of light relief and you want a drink or you want to smoke. Beers, wines and spirits, cigarettes, gambling, and now shook. Let me say that again. Beers, wines and spirits, cigarettes, gambling and now even sugar is taxed. Do you know sugar? Something like 20% a liter in tax now. And gambling and cigarettes can be up to 80% in tax. Let's say you've really had enough, you got pissed, you're even more. Let's say you've really had enough, you've got pissed, you paid even more tax and you want to have a little holiday and escape all this bollocks. So obviously your holiday pay gets taxed. Yeah, Straight away. So you're going on holiday having already paid tax. Then there's air passenger duty, tourist taxes. Hotels have up to 30% of the cost of the room in tax. Oh. Any assets you own, up to 20% in capital. Oh.

Oh.

And any assets you build in your life, up to 20% capital gains tax, and then when you die, up to 40% inheritance tax. There you go. There's just a few taxes for you. Thank you. You. Do you think My editor's put here way too long for LinkedIn. Can't post that on LinkedIn. I got into a bit of a rant, fucking like, where is all this money going? The last eight times I've flown between 30 and 70 minutes late every flight, yet I'm paying all these taxes. National insurance are my taxes for the health service. The second highest expense in tax. Shit. I can't get in to see a doctor.

Do you think things should be more equitable? For example, you said 20% blanket income. That makes sense. Health insurance or national insurance. Well, that makes more sense being case by case. I think road tax makes sense being more case by case because if you travel a thousand miles a year, you travel 100,000 miles, then it's gonna be completely different if you're really ill all the time or always Getting in fights, then your health insurance should be different than somebody else's. Same with your car insurance. Right? If you decide to go get an aston Martin worth 300 grand, news. You should pay more insurance because it's more valuable then a Nissan Micro.

Yeah, but what if someone crashes into me and then I try and claim on my insurance and my insurance goes up because they crashed into me. They have a two grand Yaris which will be a 50 grand bill for them. I've got a five grand bill. I can't claim in their insurance because it puts my insurance up.

That's, that's a scam. Yeah, but it shouldn't work like that. But don't you think things should be more equitable? Because people moan about progressive.

Because we make out we have a progressive tax system. We don't. We have an aggressive tax system. Progressive tax system means the more you earn, the more you pay. But in many other taxes other than the standard corporation tax, income tax, capital gains tax, in all these other stealthy taxes, it's not progressive at all. It's just a flat amount and actually the rich can afford to pay it. And it's actually the lower and the work and it's actually the working class and even now the middle class that get hurt the most.

How so?

Because they, because they're not rich enough to be able to absorb paying the top amounts of tax when they're a flat rate, for example, VAT on school fees. It's not going to hurt the really rich. It's going to hurt the middle class. And that's not fair. So tax isn't properly progressive. And here's the thing, they're not taxing the billionaires and the billion dollar and pound corporations. They're paying 4% corporation tax. That's wrong. I don't mind. I don't think billionaires should be taxed. I don't think billionaires should be taxed. I don't think billionaires should be overly taxed. But I think they should be equally and fairly taxed the same as everyone else.

How do you overcome that? When a lot of people say tax the billionaires, whereas so much of their net worth is on paper. So how do you get the fair share out of the ultra wealthy?

Well, one of the biggest scams is taxing paper. So taxing unrealized gains. Harris, under the former Biden administration, put out a proposal to tax unrealized gains. 25%. You've got a billion dollar valuation of a company, bang. You own a quarter of a billion in Tax, that is the biggest scam in the world because valuations go up and down like a whore draws and you should only pay tax when you draw the money. So I don't agree on taxing unrealized gains. It's the biggest daylight theft you could ever bestow on a person. And I think billionaires and billion dollar corporations who employ loads of people and bring loads of jobs into a country and create loads of economy, I believe they should have tax reliefs and breaks for that. However, paying 4% corporation tax and essentially no income tax, that's not fair. Pay 10% corp tax and 10% income, even if that's half what everyone else pays. But half of trillions is better than nothing. Of billions. But just an extra 5% on corp tax and 10% on income tax, that could even be a quadrillion into the economy. Like think of these companies that do trillions and how many of them there are FTSE 100s and P500? There could be a quadrillion of global money floating into the economy if all these corporations and billionaires just paid a little bit.

Do you think student loans are a stealth tax?

No, I don't think a loan is a tax. I just think it's a bait, it's a trap.

How do you mean?

Well, I lend you money to indoctrinate you full of information so you can pay me in taxes and debt for the rest of your life. And then when you die, oh, and I charge you interest for the privilege. That's called the education system. So it's a trap. But a loan is not a tax. So it's not a tax.

Yeah, it's definitely a scam. Because if I really think about it, you're brainwashed from a young age that you go to university, Student finance, England, the government will go, here's a loan which is just numbers on a screen. They haven't had to make anything.

They didn't earn it. Yeah, yeah.

They give that to you. No, they don't.

They loan it to you.

Yes. Yeah. And then they put a ridiculously high interest rate on it, knowing most people won't pay it off. And they're getting paid the interest pretty much. The principal never gets paid down, but the principal was just digits on a screen anyway.

The principle never existed and doesn't exist. And they gave you imaginary money and they earn perpetual interest on imaginary money. Now that is a scam. But if I had a little machine here and I could just write a number and send it to you and then earn perpetual interest on that money, I'll be like, all right, give me everyone's email address. Yeah, remember those games when you're doing that on the controller? So at the end of the day, I am critical of governments and central banks, but all they are is a profit making venture for profit corporation, maximum shareholder value. The problem becomes when humanity is the product, and so we're the product of the central banks and governments and they make money from us. Therefore there's a conflict of interest because they're supposed to be government and they're supposed to be representing the people. And their decisions are supposed to be for the good of humanity. But they actually need us not to progress too much, not to question too much. You know, the governments and central banks really want four things from us. Debt, tax, interest and compliance. Think about it, that's what they want. They want you to earn just enough to be sort of okay, not happy, not so much that you might go and get rid of all the taxes and hire a good accountant and start your own business. And they want you to pay maximum in taxes. Taxes and interest. The absolute maximum they can squeeze out, they can get 30%, 50%, 70%, 75%. Stick the needle in for tax, stick the needle in for mortgage, stick the needle in for car loans, stick the needle in for loans, for holidays, credit cards, conservatories, you name it. You've got needles in every vein. And then you're not earning enough money to live. So you have to go back to them to borrow. And it cost them nothing to make up the money on a screen. And then they get all the recurring income in the full of interest. I mean, think about it. Pretty good business model. That's why 18 years ago I learned this and I learned to play the banks at their own game and win. Because listen to this, right? If you borrow a million pounds from the bank, you have the problem. If you borrow £100 million from the bank, they have the problem. So I learned to reverse the risk back onto the banks. I do not borrow money for depreciating liabilities. I only borrow money for appreciating assets. And I buy it. And I borrow as much money as I can for appreciating assets. And I put as much of my money and I put as little as and I put as little of my own money down as possible and I leverage as much of the bank's money as I can for appreciating assets.

How much do you owe the bank?

Well, if I told you, I'd have to kill you. And one can neither confirm nor deny. It's significantly more than tens of millions, but it's less than 100 million. But it could, it could creep up to 100 million pretty soon. If the two deals I'm doing with my business partner, you know, if they happen, if they land.

So what happens when Mr. Moore walks into the bank and they go, this Fucker owes us 100 million, we have a problem.

Yeah, well, they're probably going to be a bit nicer to you. They're probably going to think about twice about repossessing you. You know, if you owe 125 grand for a property, don't care, they just repossess you. They've got more of a problem the more money you owe. Now, obviously, I have got a fiduciary duty to my staff, to my customers, to the bank. I take the bank's loan very seriously, always pay on time, don't overextend myself. I think we're 55, 58% loan to value, which is quite low. We've been higher when we started 18 years ago. So I don't say the white. So I don't say what I said flippantly. It's just if the banks are going to play me and earn out me, I'm going to play them and earn out of them. And actually I have a pretty good joint venture with my banks because they obviously get paid interest, but I make capital appreciation and rental income.

You pay tax on every single pound?

Yeah, I do. But when you own companies and assets, you can work that down.

Any tactical advice?

Well, I mean, the first thing you want to do is start a company and that's so people think starting a company is complicated. Go on Company's house. In the UK you can get a company name less than 50 quid, probably get a domain name and a company name for less than 50 quid. Then you need to get up a company bank account, get a merchant account so that you can take money like online or from a customer's bank into yours. Like a stripe credit card? Yeah, stripe common one. Then you need a product, then you need a way to take the money. Whether it's they phone you up or you have a, you know, an E commerce page and they just click a button and buy online. You have a company, you can earn on every social media post, you can earn on information you create, you can do online courses and mentoring. And as soon as you have your own company, here's how it changes. When you earn as an employee, you get paid last. The government get paid first tax, national insurance, then your student loan gets paid back and then you're left with what's left. And for some people that's less than half. Some people earn five grand gross and they have left with two, three net. I don't know if you've seen those old game shows where it's like, here's what you could have won, here's what you got, that's what your pay slip looks like because you get paid last. So if you think about it from the government's point of view, it's very clever the way they've set it up. They always get paid first. If you start a business, you always get paid first. So there's a fundamental rule in money way back to richest man in Babylon. I think this came from like a hundred year old book, pay yourself first. Most people are paying taxes, student loans, direct debits, overdrafts, personal loans, credit cards, mortgages, insurances, etc. And then they've got nothing left or their little bit. The 2%. Please sir, can I have some more? Whereas you own a company, you can even keep the VAT for three months until you pay it. Three months in arrears, you pay your tax in arrears and then you can start working it down. So your hardware that you use for work, your computers, your phones, your stands, your tripods, your cameras, your screens, all of the hardware, the lighting, everything is a business expense, which means you buy it and then you're taxed on what's left, not on what you earn. Then if you have meetings overseas or you know, in restaurants, or you know, you travel, as long as it's for business, you travel, your accommodation, your food, known as subsistence, all a business expense. If you have an LLP, you can run one car per partner through a five cars running through the LLP. So I have a Lamborghini Aventador 320, it was new. So to buy that after tax I'd have had to earn about 650. Tax comes off, then I can buy it at 320, but when I buy it in the company, I pay what I pay. And then you might be able to get the VAT back and then the depreciation, the maintenance, the fuel, the running costs, the repairs, the insurance, or comes off and then what's left you pay tax on. So you pay tax last. As an entrepreneur, business owner, you pay tax first as an employee. So that's the main thing you can do. Because by the way, be careful of schemes and scams. A scheme can turn into a scam. The big schemes you have to watch for is when some kind of accountant or professional person says, hey, look, I won't charge you immediately, but we'll write the deal and then I'll charge you a 20% of what you save. And they'll say you save 100 grand and they'll put it in and they'll charge you 20. And then maybe in that year it's saved, maybe not. And then the government go back and go, we don't like that. And they can go back seven years and retrospectively reverse it, which is a major scam. And they can charge you tax, interest and penalties. And then that guy who got his 20% commission has fled to Cyprus, gone. So be careful of schemes they can turn into scams. I want two or three accountants to underwrite it and I always want tax investigation insurance to underwrite it also, you know, a lot of people are talking about moving. I know this really popular, but you have to weigh it up. Number one, you might not like the country itself. Number two, what about their laws? You know, what about their company laws? In some countries in Europe, properties don't go up in value. And in some countries in Europe, you know, the legal purchase of buying properties or homes is a nightmare and not that safe. And you take for granted in the Western world that the legal system is pretty good, like the limited company wrapper is pretty good, protects you to start a company. Dubai looks great, really good for entrepreneurs. Low taxes, but everything's twice as expensive. So what you save in tax, you just end up paying. Because it's six pound fifty a coffee, it's twice as much for a coffee over there, for example. And if you're buying three of them a day and everything else Uber's around the place because it's so big. So I'm a fan of simplicity, big simplicity. Not schemes, not scams, not moving abroad. There are other more technical ways to save money. If you buy real estate, you know, we've had some nice big millions of pounds savings with various taxes that have open and closed or tax breaks. If you buy real estate, there's some tax breaks and over the years we've had millions of pounds worth of tax saved. Capital allowances is one of them depreciating all of the service elements of a building. We've saved millions in tax on that. We've been able to reclaim VAT on some buildings that we've bought. You need a good accountant. If we get to the point here where I start getting a bit technical and it starts getting nuanced. Monsters. I'll tell you what, actually give me a yes in the comments if you're up for this. But I am up for in Rob Team doing a tax masterclass. Maybe like a beginner's one in Rob Team and then an advanced one in Rob Team Gold. Here's the thing. Very soon your biggest expense will be tax. In your first year of business, it might not be second, third year. All of a sudden the amount you pay in tax is going to become your biggest expense. Bigger than your staffing, bigger than your premises, bigger than your marketing. Tax is our biggest expense. And also when you take a pound or dollar, you might be left with 20 pence or cents. 20% net profit. When you save a pound or dollar, you save the whole pound. So when you save tax, you save the whole pound. Whereas where you earn more money, you've got to pay all the tax on it and you're left with 20%.

Would you move?

Yeah.

Where to?

Depends. I think I'd need to do more research. I'd certainly look into Marbella, Lisbon, Dubai, and I'd look at where there's an entrepreneurial future. You know, if you look at Saudi and Dubai, these great nations didn't exist. I mean, Saudi was basically made by Saud, built by Saud, and Dubai was just built, what, less than 40 years ago. Do you know the original Saudi prince, King Saud, had 42 children.

Jesus.

These mega kings of the world seem to want to have a lot of kids. Elon's got 12 kids, hasn't he? I interviewed his dad Yesterday. He's got 20 grandchildren. Fucking hell. So, but yeah, somewhere where the leader of the nation loves business and entrepreneurship and is an entrepreneur, that's where I would go.

Okay, so I've given you the keys to the kingdom. What changes are you making to this current tax system to be better for entrepreneurs?

The first thing I'll immediately do is fire most of the people in government who are all paid a hefty salary to justify this ridiculously complicated, thousands of pages, confusing as fuck tax code. So I'd save us millions a month in expenses by getting rid of most of government. And by the way, Elon Musk will do the same. Donald Trump has pretty much said, you're going to be my head of efficiency. Do you know what he did when he took over X? He fired 90% of the staff. That's how to be efficient. So if Donald, like the left are shit scared. Because if Donald Trump gets in, Elon Musk goes into government and fires 90% of the stuff. They're not needed. They're pushing paper. They're just a massive expense on us. So I'd get rid of all of the wastage of the civil services who aren't needed. I'd take this tax code of a billion pages and I'd make it a flat rate. None of this progressive taxes, none of these stealth taxes. A flat rate. Then I'd look at loads of incentives to bring in entrepreneurs, billionaires. Bring all those people back. All the Russians that we sent away, bring them back, you know, all the people in the Middle east that we sent away, bring them all back. Let's have big corporations, let's have massive employment, let's get AI and tech thriving here in the uk. Do you know we had a massive AI budget cut by labor? They came in and cut billions of budget for us to develop AI. We should be at the forefront of this. We don't build anything or make anything anymore. We used to. And we need to be that again. You know, make Britain great again. Because what's great now? A great. Because what's great now about Great Britain and what's united now about United Kingdom? I mean, tell me all. Nothing. So that's the first thing I do. The next thing I do is I'd build. And the next thing I'd do is I build a Napoleon Hill style mastermind from Think and Grow Rich and I'd get all the top UK entrepreneurs, I'd even lure them back into the uk. James Dyson come back. Richard Branson come back. All these top entrepreneur billionaires. And I'd have like a mastermind with them. We'd have monthly board meetings and then I'd bring some overseas ones, top people across the world, ultra billionaires who knew how to build real economies. And they would be the advisory board on how we grow the economy. The next thing I'd do, the police needs fixing so bad. You know, our immigration is really bad, our police system is really bad, our crime system is really bad. It probably needs a reform from the inside out, I can't say. It certainly needs a lot more money. So they're probably the first three things I would do. Kia, what do you reckon? Do you want to have me as your chancellor?

Vote Robin. All right.

Thank you, Rob Bosch. And remember, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything.

Feel like shit, mate. Thank you for that.

You got to speak the truth, man.

Yeah.

You got to be real about this. You know, you've made the big step, you know, you Started your own company. And as you know, all my trips are business expenses and I don't do holidays anymore because you actually, you just change your spending habits. When taxes are really high, you draw less income and you spend more through your business by doing more business. When taxes are really low, you can spend more. Personally, I haven't bought as many watches as I would normally, not as many holidays and people might think, oh, that's a bit depressing. But you know, I can do the work trips in nice places and meet really interesting people. My podcast enables me to travel and meet people, so I can still kind of get that itch scratched. And you know, if you do have a husband or a wife, employ them in your company and then they can become part of that. Here's another thing and David, maybe you leave this bit in, but I know so many entrepreneurs and business owners that are just leaving money in their company because if they draw it, they're getting 45% income tax, they already paid 20 odd percent corp tax and if they draw it they're paying 45% in income. So they just leave it. So how many trillions are stuck in small businesses and big businesses just stuck in the bank because we don't want to draw it because we don't want to give half to the government. David, you should bring up in the edit the Laffer Curve. The Laffer curve shows tax revenues based on percentage of tax charged. So if the government charged 0% tax, the government gets zero tax. But if the government charge 100% tax, they get zero tax because everyone just leaves. If you were charged 100% tax, you would immediately emigrate immediately. So at zero tax and 100 tax they get no tax.

So it's like that.

And so it's basically like a bell. And the optimum, I don't know what it is, no one will say, but it's probably 25, 30 is certainly not 60 and 70. Yeah, the more they tax, the more it goes down because people evade tax and avoid tax because it's so expensive, it just feels like a crime to take it off you. So you're prepared to take a risk to keep it. So we have got millions just sat waiting that we're not going to. Because I don't want to give half of it away. Now here's the thing. If the roads were great and the police were great, you know, and the country was thriving and the economy was growing and the sun was shining, can't blame the government on having no summer. But funny, in one of the hardest Years. In the last cycle, we also had the shittest summer.

Yeah.

You know, we would all be prepared to pay more tax if we thought it was valuable. You can't get in the nhs, so you just resent paying the tax. So if they just. Here's what they could do. They could maybe make up some rule where for an amount of time, they halve the amount of tax that they charge us. It's difficult because they charge retrospectively, but I'm sure they could have a tax holiday where in a certain given amount of time, you pay less tax on what you draw. We'll draw loads. And then all this money would flow into the economy and immediately give it a massive lift.

What do you think of Rory Sutherland's idea of saying the first hundred thousand pounds a human earns is tax free? His thought is younger people need the money more that way. They get on the property ladder. It might take a few people a couple of years, might take you five or six years, but then that gets you fundamentally set up as sort of your basic needs.

Do you mean their first hundred grand or 100 grand a year?

Their first hundred grand, yeah.

I like the idea of progressively increasing taxes, just not the way they do it. So same with the business. Start a business, pay no tax in the first year, 5% corporate in the second year, 10%, in the third year, 15%. I like that because it encourages you to grow and it gives you money to reinvest back into your company. So, yeah, I like the idea for employed people and young people, because if they get to that 100 grand within, say, two years, they're on their feet, then they've got money to afford to buy a house and put into the system. Yeah. I think it's too hard, too early, both as an employee and as an employer, because if you do well.

So if you. It's making sense now as my brain is going ahead, it's. You get pushed into university system and you go and you get a good job and you do really well for yourself and you end up in London as doing X and you earn 100 grand a year. Makes sense because the second you've come out of uni, you've never had a penny before then, and immediately you still can't afford to buy a house. Picture on 100 grand. And they're taking every last dime through student loans, national insurance, income tax. But as I was about to say that, I realized, oh, that's what they want.

Yeah, well, I get some kickback for this. But I say to people that you shouldn't take a salary because a salary is a trap. What you just said. Why? Because you're paying most of it in tax, but you become dependent on it. Whereas if you don't take a salary, like I would say this to all my staff. They won't, but I'd say it don't take a salary, but I will give you a 22% commission on everything you bring in for this business, whether you're admin or sales. I know what my cost of sale is, and I can give them most of that. I don't have to pay any marketing costs. And everyone from the receptionist to the CEO has some KPIs where they can generate direct revenue. So David, who does the editing, he can take us to 50 grand, 100 grand a month on our ad revenue on YouTube. He can put ads for Rob.com team and earn money that way. And all of a sudden, he's incentivized with no ceiling, and he's got the accountability because he's got no security that month, and he's not dependent on that. And so therefore, it's not a trap. And his income isn't limited, because when you have a salary, it's something you become addicted to and dependent on, but it also never really goes up.

So let me give you a counter to that.

You can try.

Yeah, well.

Oh, all right.

By the way, side note, as soon as you said that about not taking a salary, I think that's a great start to a separate episode because we've got that as an episode. Yeah, cool.

Yeah, we'll do that as an episode.

Cool. Should we just power through now? Because I feel like you're on a roll.

Yeah. All right. If you feel like I'm on a roll. Let me just check what's in the diary.

So I think we're in for another 23 minutes. I kind of need to be done by one anyway. But that actually works because if we keep in those last few minutes of Rob, that starts the episode.

All right, then let's. Let's do this.

There's your pattern interrupt to start when.

When we were talking About Vanguard and BlackRock, Alex edited one of the shorts and it's just started with me going Vanguard. Yes. 1.4 million views. Really? So what I should do is sit here and just. Tourette's. They can just use those for pattern interrupt.

I did see that clip. It worked on me.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was a good clip.

Yeah, Very good clip. Alex did two in a row. 1.4. 1.4. Fucking hell yeah. Really good. People love that shit. Yeah, really good.

Alright, so let me challenge you on this then.

So don't you need a new title? Are we just gonna start the new episode?

I started with what you said. I think that was a great hook. About the last sort of two minutes you did, I think is the beginning of the episode.

Don't take a salary.

Yeah, don't take a salary.

Okay, fine. Let me just give you a lead in if you need it. I don't take a salary and nor should you or you.

Bosh cool. You're a podcaster. The.

I'm not just a podcaster. All right. Nearly nine years, 1200 episodes. We should do something this fucking Raptors.

What are we doing for 10 years, by the way?

Yeah, prison sentence, marriage.

The founder of Patreon had this issue where it's also on a percentage basis, where essentially you only attract the bottom talent when it's percentage only. Because here's why. So let's say you are a great employee that's bringing you.

You need to start again and explain that better.

Okay?

Because I don't understand what you meant. Okay, maybe make the point first and then use the example. Right? Yeah.

To challenge that. Do you run the risk of losing the best quality talent. Sorry, do you run the risk as the best quality talent of then being let go when you're too good? For example, you could pay somebody a 30 grand salary to do X and you're saying, don't do that. Give them, let's say, 22% of sales in your case. Does it get to the point where you get somebody so phenomenal and you look at them and go, we're giving away too much of a percentage. We could just pay somebody 100k salary and still be massively up.

Oh, what a terrible problem to have all your staff making so much money that you need to make a change. What a terrible problem to have. Kane, you've just told me. It's like, ah, the problem with my private jet is I don't like the color of the leather seats.

I don't.

How is it a problem for me if my staff, all of them, are making so much money that now I'm paying them more in a commission than I was in a salary? Haven't I just edified my own argument? And haven't I just created what I want to create? Because here's the thing, no one on a salary is going to be earning so much commission that their commission is a problem. So actually I want that problem because there's Always first world problems. There's always upside problems. Like if you're so successful that you walk down the street of London and you're so well known and making so much difference in the world that every woman comes up and rips her bra open and wants her tits signed because she's so in love with you. This is the first world problem I'll take for my fame and notoriety. And I'll even sign my full name, Robert Frank Moore. So I'm shocked that you said that because you even decided yourself to forego your salary, didn't you? Because you realize you could earn a lot more not earning a salary because you realized that the salary was an illusion and a trap. Now I'm not here ridiculing anyone who takes a salary. I pay most of my staff a salary. I'm just giving the reality of if you want to make more money, what you need to do is get rid of the perceived security and safety net. Because it's ironic that people say our salary is security. No, it's a trap. What is, what's that? What's that syndrome? Maybe look at it up. What's that syndrome? Maybe look at it up. Is it Helsinki something syndrome where you almost fall in love with your cat?

Stockholm syndrome.

What? Stockholm syndrome. What is that? Look up Stockholm syndrome.

Stockholm syndrome is a proposed condition or theory that tries to explain. The hostage sometimes develops a psychological bond with their captors.

Right. So financial Stockholm syndrome is when you develop an addiction and a relationship with your salary, but your salary is keeping you broke.

Well, it said, right. The most. Well, it said the worst place you can be is sort of 80 to 100 grand a year.

Well, actually I'd say 124,000 something. And 50 because you get charged 60% in that bracket.

Damn.

Yeah.

And you feel like you're doing well. I'm on six figures. I can tell everyone I'm, you know, I'm hit that 100 grand post grad salary. Good for you.

Yeah. Wow. And central banks and governments are very smart. They know six figure salary. So what do they do? They put a massive tax ratchet in the 100 to 125. So much so that people who figured it out, they stay under 100. So you have to be careful with this salary. Now I'm not going to get a lot of hate on this and people are going to say, oh Robert, it's easy for you, but I don't take a salary and I haven't taken a salary for 18 years and I started my own Business without salary. And I walked away from a good salary. So I did it. So I know. And is it hard at first? Yes. Is going down the gym at first when you're really overweight or really unfit, is that hard? Yes. Is leaving a toxic relationship hard at first?

Yes.

Everything that's worth it is hard at first. But I know there's so many people watching, there's something they'd love to do, or they hate their boss, or they're stuck, or they sold out their dreams. Just become addicted to Stockholm syndrome of their salary. So come on then, pick, pick. Apart my argument that no one should.

Take a salary, it's not that they shouldn't, because I'm a hypocrite to say that, because I did, I gave up.

Yeah, but you could say, you know now because I did 18 years ago. All right then. If you want to be rich and minimize your tax and have accountability to make money and develop your career, it is very wise to strongly consider not taking a salary.

No, I agree. If you're a great talent. Here is where I would be thinking of alarm bells potentially is if I over deliver for you, I'm getting a good percentage. Does it come to the point where the person who's giving the percentage, the employer suddenly thinks, I reckon I could get somebody for cheaper?

Well, if they do, they're biting the hand that feeds them and they're reversing the thing that made money in the first place.

Place.

Because I love being an entrepreneur because there are no ceilings other than my own self imposed ones. So I don't take a salary and if I lose money, I have to pay money back. And if I make nil, I get paid nil. And if I make a million, I get paid my share of that. Whereas anyone on a salary, they lose money, they still get paid because you can have staff who are losing you money, but you still have to pay them. That's not actually fair. They can bring nil value to the company and still get paid. And here's the thing, there's a lot of people silently thinking they're safe, but their employer is going, they're comfortable, they're not that valuable to the business. If I'm forced to let go of a couple, I'm choosing them. And so the worst thing you can do and take it from me when you're employed is to sit comfortable because you could just be gone. That's the reality. Fair or not fair, that's the reality. But why should I, who take a risk as an employer, carry people who aren't making any money. Whereas if everyone is on commission, then everyone it's exposed what their value is. You brought in 200 grand for the business this month, you get paid 44 grand this month because you get 22%. You bought two grand in for the business this month, you get paid 400 and whatever quid because that's the value you created. And it's there in black and white, no one can deny. I think it's really powerful. And so if I've got someone who's bringing 200 grand a month in and I'm having to pay them for 44 grand a month, I'm happy because on a 30 grand salary, they might have been bringing in me 10 grand or 5 grand.

No, that makes a lot of sense. I'm with you convinced for the second time. So you said you've never taken a salary, not even your nil band your 12 and a half grand.

Oh, well, you'd have to speak to my accountant on how he works my tax bill down.

Yeah.

And we'll do it in the most efficient way with drawings or. Well, actually much of it is drawings. There's management charges, obviously, the salary and dividends and all sorts of other ways of taking money. But what I mean is, if I don't make any profit in my companies, I get paid nil. If I make a million pounds, I get paid what my share is. I get paid a share of the net profit, my business partner gets paid a share of the net profit and then we retain a percentage of the net profit as working cash to make sure we're safe and secure. And I've got money to reinvest. We've got a rule for that. So there's no ceiling on that. And the floor is zero, but there's no ceiling. So I'm incentivized to make 100 grand a month, 200 grand a month, a million a month. So do you do it 10 million? Yeah. So percentage of net profit? Yeah. Which means I'm incentivized to increase the revenue and decrease the costs and I get my share.

Have there been extended periods or months where you've not taken a thing?

Yeah. After lockdown, how long? Over a four year period, at least 15 to 18 months. We took nil. At least? Yeah. I mean, some months we took good money because we did well, but it was very up and down after lockdown. It was immediately down and then immediately quite quickly up when we set up all these online courses. And one year after lockdown, our turnover went down by like 60%. But our net profit margin was really healthy. It went up actually from the year before. But then, you know, you got the zoom fatigue and we opened the world back up and we're able to do events again and really hard getting people to events. So for a while, getting the engine started again was really hard. Yes, we've had many months. I mean, August and December are not great months for our business because an events business, one of the businesses, two of the businesses. So we often make a loss then, and if we make a loss in a month, we have to pay it back. I don't go to my staff, oh, we made a loss this month. Can you just pay 30% of your salary back that I gave you last month? That's why I get the reward, because I take the risk. That's how the world works. Greater risk, greater reward. I mean, elon Musk sold PayPal for what, 200mil? Plowed it all back, bought Tesla 100mil into SpaceX and 100mil in a rocket company. Doesn't go very far. It's something like 2 billion now to fly the starship. So Elon Musk knows the game. Most people who sold a company for 200 million would be private jet, beach signing tits. It's obviously just one of my repressed dreams once I've really made it. Now Elon Musk plowed it all back into businesses, took big risks.

And these are all the people that everyone's saying needs to be taxed heavier.

Well, I kind of agree. Disagree. Billionaires shouldn't be taxed more than the average person. There should be a flat rate tax. Already said that in the last episode. But billionaires aren't paying their fair share because they've found a way of avoiding corp tax and income tax. But I don't blame them for doing that because I would if I could and so would you. But also when people say, oh, billionaires don't pay any tax, that's just nonsense. Think of the trillions in VAT generated, the trillions in national insurance, the trillions in business rates. The billionaires generate masses of taxes. Give you an example. You know when Taylor Swift did all of her gigs in the UK and sold out Wembley and the whole UK stadiums, 1 billion of extra revenue pumped into the UK. All the people who had hot dog and steak away, all the people had hot dog and takeaway stand, you know, all the support gigs, all the security that were hired, 1 billion of extra revenue into our country just because Taylor Swift came. Oasis, the same thing. Will happen. They'll come and do their massive gig reunion and there might be half a billion of extra revenue coming in. This is what happens when you have billionaires. They bring in all this peripheral revenue. And of course, people who are broke or hate billionaires, they don't understand this.

Why do you think when you post about not taking a salary, people get so upset?

Because I think they must think it's easy for me to say, and I think that they think it's too hard for them to do. But I did it 18 years ago and I was already in a lot of debt. And I'm not saying it's easy. Where have I once said it's easy? You know, by the way, the right thing is often not the easy thing. The right thing to eat is not the easy thing to eat. The right thing to eat is a salad. The easy thing to eat is a pizza. You know, the right thing to spend your money on is an asset. The easy thing is a good time night out. So in life, there's the right thing and the easy thing, and the salary is the easy thing. Because once the salary is agreed, you can sit in your desk of comfort and do just enough not to get fired. And that's the easy thing. But to go, ah, there's a week left. I'm going to earn £600. I've got no salary, I need two grand to live. I'm Rob's videographer and editor. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna email the world and get him on the show. I'm gonna unlock all the adsense, I'm gonna post a load more clips, I'm gonna post every day and all of a sudden generates more revenue for my channel and all of a sudden gets paid more. And then he goes, hallelujah, I can do it. Then that becomes his new normal because he's just shown himself that he can do it. Honestly, I am the most dangerous and prolific when there is accountability and there is shit going on. But a salary protects you from that difficulty.

Like bubble wrap.

It is like bubble wrap. It's finance, salary, Stockholm syndrome. We need to do a thing on that.

It's the new book.

Yeah.

Tactically then, if you're an employee, how do you go about getting this deal so you can earn more money?

You go and pitch it to your manager or boss. Now, if a company's too corporate and it's not what they do, maybe you're not in the right company. But you know, if someone pitches me that, you know, I'm open Because you pitched it to me and I agreed. And you know someone else who pitched it to me recently and they had me at hello.

Yeah, they had you at sign my text.

So now, by the way, I, I don't just go, yes, I look at the risk. So, you know, maybe they're pretty good at what they do. Maybe they're already earning me three or four times their salary salary. So I've got to make sure I don't lose that. But generally only sales and marketing people are going to earn you three, four, five times your salary. You know, finance, admin, events, operation, they often won't earn you anywhere near as much as your salary. They. But operations admin, but operations, admin, finance people, they might just about pay for themselves and their salary. Now, at this point, a lot of people say to me, yeah, but rob my role, you can't get commission. I'm not in sales. There's two things you do. Number one is if you're in finance or admin or operations, work out how much you can save the company and ask for a commission on the saving. So by the way, I practice what I preach because in my organization, if someone comes up with an idea that puts money in the bank, they get a percentage. If they come up with an idea that saves money, they get a percentage of the saving. So operations, admin, finance, they can either do money saved for the company, but they can also do money generated. Admin can still generate money, finance can generate money. They can chase bad debt. For example, they can look at your pricing and suggest to increase your pricing. There's so much that they can do. So it's only the limit of the mind that says, oh, you know, I can't earn more than my salary. And the thing is, if you're not earning the company more than your salary, how are you valuable to them? Like, think about it. When there's the next round of redundancies or they need to just make some efficiencies and you're barely earning your salary, you should be very scared. Now, the easiest way to get a pay rise is to just look at your salary and aim to earn five times your salary for the company. And then go to your boss and say, in the last three months, I've been paid five grand a month, but I brought in 25 grand a month for this. But I brought in 25 grand a month for the company. Here's the proof. Can I have a pay rise? I'm never going to say no if someone shows me the hard evidence of that Because I'm going to worry losing. But remember, salary is the secure. Here's the irony. A lot of people are earning a salary and they're getting more into debt.

Anyway because this is the thing. If you are a company director in a limited company on about 50 grand a year across your 12 nil band and the rest dividends, you pay about 3 grand in tax.

Yeah, you can get your tax bill down quite a lot, especially in the lower earning rates when you start your own business, you can. So what I would say to finish is at the very least go to your boss and say what can I do to earn more money? And I'm prepared to sacrifice some salary if you're prepared to give me some fair commissions. Can I put something together or could you put something together? How's that going to hurt anyone? David could do that now if he wanted. Say, hey Look Rob, over 50,000 views a video, could I get an increased commission? I would pay David a commission on, you know, I think 50,000 video. I think 50,000 views a video should be the minimum of my channel. So if David came to me and said hey look Rob, you know, I'm prepared to take a bit of a salary sacrifice. Sacrifice. I want to target for all the video views, I want to target for the revenue. Can I have my share when I hit target and above? Oh, and the higher it goes, can I earn more? I'm listening, I am listening. Because it incentivizes the behavior I want. I mean at the moment, sorry David, for you to be the David's face isn't on the video and David's a common name but I mean thinking about it, purely self interest. If David gets one view or a million views, he doesn't care. I mean he might have a little warm feeling that we got a million views but it doesn't matter to him. Matters to me a lot because it's my channel, my brand, my revenue. So go to your boss, either suggest a part salary reduction, part commission increase or a full or pitch them with an idea or ask them if it's possible. That's option one. Option two, think in the medium term, 612 months, could I work my way to becoming a contractor or self employed? The thing with being a contractor or self employed, you just have to be careful around how many people you work for. People can't invoice us personally, they have to invoice from a limited company. There's just a few, all you got. Because that's so that's the second thing you should do. You should check with HMRC and an accountant, what are the rules, what are the tax bands and brackets? And get that all lined up. Or the third thing you can do is just say, no salary, all commissions. Now, there's two ways to do that. Within your employment, outside your employment. Now within your employment is a safer.

Way to do it.

Because let's say, for example, David's like, right, I don't want any salary. I want 30% of all the YouTube revenue over 10 grand a month. Let's say that's his pitch to me. I'm like, deal. And let's say month one. We're a bit under, but I can see he's working, you know, like a legend. I'm probably going to sub him the 500 quid for next month because I see he's going to make good progress and he has got a mortgage to pay. I know. You know, I know where he lives. That sounded stalkerish, but it wasn't. He lives close, which is handy. So I'm probably going to support him in that transition period. Or we could prorate it. Start three months, half the salary, next three months, have it again. I mean, I've come up with like five different ideas here and if people are still watching and they're just like, well, then I'd consider they need to go and get some training on their mindset. I'll tell you something that really pisses me. Pisses me off. And I have to be honest about it. And people get really upset. It pisses me off when people moan and complain and say how unfair everything is and they do absolutely nothing about it for themselves and their family. I have no problem with people moaning and complaining about what is wrong and then doing something about it. I rant every freaking day about what's wrong in the system on my Facebook lives and I immediately create solutions for everyone. I mean, how many solutions have we come up with in this video? Video? So I will rant. I have a rule. If I'm going to rant, I've got to immediately create a solution. If I'm going to moan, I've got to fix it. And then I come up with all these solutions and I say it in my direct way or it just seems a bit uncomfortable. And someone even said to me once on a post, show us you're in touch. Without. Someone even said to me once in one of my posts, tell us you're out of touch without telling us you're out of touch, you know, because I said, shouldn't take a salary. How's that out of touch? No. Billionaires take a salary.

And if you're following you, it's probably because you want to make more money.

Yeah, but don't forget, the algorithms will just push my stuff out everywhere. So people who don't want to see my content. It's funny how the haters, they hate. They tell you how much they hate, but they're still watching. Haters are just lovers who don't know they love you yet.

That's how you met your wife.

That is how I met my wife.

You do love me. You just don't know yet. Yeah, well, that's everything. Thanks, Rob.

Boom. And remember, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptive media.co.uk to learn more. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out.

Through podcasting, video and social content.

Visit disruptivemedia.comco.uk to learn more.