Paul Withers | Why Banks Don't Want You Buying Gold with Gold Expert Paul Withers

So Paul, what are your gold predictions for 2025? I mean, you're really bullish on gold.

I'm very bullish on gold, yeah. I truly believe that everything that's happening.

Geopolitically, everything bad the economy is, everything.

That happened with the economy, how weak the pound is, it is all geared for another strong year. 30, 30. I think it's 32 and a half percent last year.

32 and a half percent gold went up in 2024.

Yeah. Wow.

I mean that's bitcoin level growth.

Yeah, well, no, bitcoin's even better now. But this is, you got to understand this is a low risk asset, a physical asset. To get 30% in anything is fabulous. And I can't see it stopping. I think a minimum 15% for 2025.

Wow. And why does gold go up when the economy struggles?

There's a number of reasons, but the main thing that we're going through at the minute, inflation. Now when you inflate the money supply, like what they have been doing for.

A number of years, 31% cumulative inflation since 2020.

So that means that people with money in their account, their savings account that they believe is completely safe, they do not see that stealth tax, they see that as a, you know, I've got £10,000 in there, I've still got £10,000 in there. But when you put that into perspective, what could that £10,000 buy you today and what could that bought you five years ago? You know, there's a vast difference.

So it's £6,900 relatively.

Now when you put that into consideration compared to gold, when you inflate that money supply, you're adding paper notes to the system. Paper notes just become worthless. And if you look at the power of purchasing power of the pound over the last 20 years, it's more than half, isn't it?

10% down in the last year, the pound.

It's crazy. People don't understand this.

No.

When you consider the, the how, you know, owning a physical gold like this.

So that's a 1 ounce coin.

This is 1 ounce coin.

I notice you holding it around the sides. You always tell me off for touching.

It in the middle, keeping it pure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when you. So that's one ounce, that's one ounce of pure gold.

Well, that might help people with it, with their guests.

Yeah. One ounce of pure 24 karat gold.

Right. And if you're listening on the audio, listen to it and then go on the YouTube on Disruptors channel and have a Look, so, so yeah, you, you.

Inflate that money supply you make.

It essentially reduces the value of.

It reduces the value now some.

So why does that then push the value of gold up?

Because this is everything. What most people do not realize is this is, this is money. This is it, this is everything. This is what should be the end goal for everybody. You know, you, you, this doesn't deteriorate in value. Gold is a constant. So throughout the history you would have the same amount of gold would have got you a custom made suit. 20, 30, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, even back in the Roman times, used to be an ounce of gold will get you a suit of armor. Even today you can still get, you go and buy a custom suit, it's going to cost you about 2, 2,200 now.

Right.

You know, so this is a constant. The problem is, is that you inflate the money, it now costs you more pounds to buy that level of gold. So if you think gold is constant, the amount of pounds that it costs you to buy that amount of gold, that's what goes down. And that's what you see, the fluctuations and the volatility. It's not in the gold price. Yeah. It's in the currency that's buying it. So no matter where you are in the world, if you're buying it in dollars, there'll be a fluctuation based on how well the dollar's doing. It's the same with the yen, the euro, the pound, whatever it may be. Gold is the constant.

Right. And I know rich people say they want to buy gold and hope it never goes up in value. Why is that?

Because then they know that the rest of their portfolio is doing well.

To shit well, if gold goes, if.

Gold does nothing up.

Sorry, if gold. We'll do that question again because I interrupted him. So I understand rich people, they like to buy gold but hope it never goes up in value. Why is that?

If it never goes up in value, they know that the rest of their portfolio is doing well.

Right.

Because it has an inverse relationship with the economy. Right. And other investments. So typically if you hold 20, 25% of your wealth in gold, you don't want it to go up. If you know, 75% is in the stock market and the bond market or real estate or property. Yeah. And they're hoping that, okay, so if that's doing well, my insurance policy, which is gold, shouldn't do well.

So essentially this is a defensive protection of your wealth and a hedge against your other assets and a hedge against inflation and the dropping in value of money.

Correct.

And then ironically, you hold this, hoping it won't go up. And then when we're in geopolitical issues, riots on the streets, reducing pound, soaring taxes, labor wars, labor, governments coming in, recessions. Recessions, financial meltdown, depressions which like, tick, tick, tick, all of the above. Right now, gold goes through the roof.

It's the best industry. It's the best commodity. It really is.

Right. So obviously we've got some silver here as well. This is your gold and this is my silver. And thanks, because, you know, you sold this silver to me at a very good price. Thank you. Gold versus silver. What's the best and why?

Both have great potential. You know my view on silver. You know my view on gold.

Tell everyone.

So silver.

So don't hold back, by the way. Just. This is my silver. And just because you sold it to.

Me, I don't believe. This is my opinion. I don't believe this is actually a precious metal. I see it as an industrial metal still right now.

As in it has utility and trees and things. Right.

And there's a lot of it.

Yeah.

You know, so if you look at the. The demand for silver at the minute is about 1.1 billion ounces. The demand.

Right.

The supplier is about 900 million ounces. Right. So there's a deficit of about 200 million ounces, give or take. Yeah. 20% bit here and there, but there's a deficit.

Right.

So the demand for silver massively outweighs the supply. Yeah, but it's been like that for years and we still haven't seen that huge explosion in growth that all the silver bugs have. Yeah. And I'm very skeptical of whether we will receive that huge growth over the next short period of time.

Right.

I believe that. You still don't. We're looking at good, good prices at the moment. I still believe there's a, you know, I think price of silver at the Moment is about $30. Thirty pounds, sorry, an ounce. And I think it will go up to about 45 pounds an ounce over the next five years.

Okay. So still 50 in five years.

Still. Still a great opportunity for silver. And it is available to more people.

Because it's cheaper.

Because it is cheaper.

Yeah.

The downsides to it, the. There's vat. So it really is only attractive to maybe a business owner.

Right. You can buy silver in your company.

Buy silver in your company.

So if you've got cash sat in the company, you could buy it and.

Put it in silver or you can Buy it and hold it in storage. Then it doesn't incur VAT because you're not taking delivery. So there's a good way to maximize. But then you've also got to factor in that there's a bit more volatility in silver. Right, yeah. So whilst it can go up 50%, it can also swing the other way. Not quite as wild as 50%, but there is volatility. Now with gold, I see this as a precious metal. It's the ultimate precious metal.

But silver was the first metal used as money before gold.

I wouldn't say it was the first. I don't think it was, no. If you go back to the Roman times, you know, they used to have. It used to be called Arraeus, the gold coin, because I own another company called Aureus. And the reason that we set that up is because these were the original forms of gold. And how they used to do it is it was very much. You wouldn't want to be walking around with gold, you know, 5,000 years ago, you know, so silver used to be barterable. Gold would be stored. And that's how the whole money system came into effect. Because blacksmiths, metalsmiths, that would basically take these gold holdings. If you go back and you think to yourself, right, okay, you're a spice trader or a farmer or something like that, you know, and you had small gold nuggets, you would take that to the. To the, to the, to the. Theoretically, it's like a. Like a bank, a blacksmith who would hold this gold on your behalf.

Yeah.

And then sitting on all of this gold, someone along the line thought, I know, instead of me giving you this, why don't I give you paper with the promise to pay? And that's how the gold standard become.

Right.

And then obviously, then as generations evolved, it then become into. That's how banking was. And then banks would have all of their assets protected by gold up until 1971, when we removed from the gold standard.

Yeah.

So, yeah. So when you come back to your original question then, about gold or silver.

So why gold then?

Because this is money. This is what I'm saying. This is. This is the end goal for you. I know Robert Kiyosaki said it to you as well.

Yeah.

You know, this should be the final destination. Because at the end of the day, this is. I don't look at this as an investment. If you're looking to create wealth, you know, and you're starting from scratch or becoming. You're a beginner to investing, I don't think this is the way to build wealth because it's slow and steady, you know, reliable.

Except 30, what percent last year?

I mean. Yeah, but you can't rely on that as a wealth. You know, normally, if you was to take that year out, typically you're looking at about 10% growth a year.

Right.

As an average over the last 20 years.

But if inflation's been 31% in the last five years, if you think about the difference between gold going up 10 and money going down 5, 7, that's a massive difference.

It is a huge difference.

So if you don't see this as investment, what is it? Is it a store of wealth?

It is a store of wealth, yeah. This is the best store of wealth. If you have an opportunity to go and create as much wealth as you can, whether it be in crypto, you know, that I know everyone is making a. Well, not everyone, but, you know, there's a lot of people at the moment making very, very big money from crypto. But you got to understand there's volatility to that as well, you know, or whether you're going to start a business or whether you're going to buy property, you know, these are wealth, generate wealth, building assets. But once you have the wealth, then.

Where you just said, whence you have the wealth? You can tell you've got history of gold, whence one has thy wealth.

But where do you then put it? You know, I've got customers who have been accumulating wealth for 30, 40 years and then they come to us with, you know, I want to buy million pounds worth. Yeah. Over the next three, four years. Yeah. Of God, continuously. And when you, you know, you build a relationship with these people, why do you want that? You know, I need to secure my wealth somehow.

Right.

There's only so many houses I could buy.

Yeah.

I own 50 businesses. I'm a, you know, I'm a heavily invested in crypto.

Right.

No one really likes the bond market anymore. There's very high risk with that, as we're seeing at the moment. I think the stock market is doing.

A crash is coming.

I think the everything bubble is about to come. Yeah.

Well, watches have fallen off a cliff. Cars have fallen off a cliff. Real estate, oh, man, it feels so bubbly. And, you know, I've been in real estate for nearly 20 years and, well.

I actually truly believe that that's going to be the first domino Commercial.

Right.

Commercial real estate. I think that.

And you think. Then you think everything's going to go.

I think, because if. Where's Where's a lot of people's pension funds right now?

Will you tell me? You're the guest.

Pension funds are wrapped up in real estate, commercial real estate. I look at the building that we're in, Canary Wharf, most of it is owned by a huge pension company. Most of it. Most of it's empty.

Right.

You know, and when you're. It is. And that's just one building in Canary Wharf. You think of that nationwide? I think there's a big, big problem. I don't want to sound doom and gloom.

Well, no, but if you think about lockdown, depending on your source, lockdown costs between 700 billion and a trillion. I've seen that in the range, so let's just call it a trillion for round numbers. That's. We're the only revenue source for the government. There is no government money, there is no government spending, there's only taxpayer money. That trillion's essentially a loan from us. And then inflation up 31%, pound down. Like everyone across the world thinks the UK is a joke. No one believes that Rachel Reeves or Laban know what they're doing to turn the economy around.

They don't. That's why.

Well, none of them have run a business in the senior positions. None of them are running a business.

This is why I truly believe that Nigel, not to get too political, but Nigel Farage. Nigel Farage, I truly believe that. We've spoken to him. Yeah. So we know, we know what he's like, we know what his ideas are. You know, he's been there and he's done it and the people that he's got around him have been there and done it. That is what we need.

People who've run businesses, people who know how to run an economy because their business is an economy. Nigel Farage, he likes a bit of gold, doesn't he? He blew up in the news recently, didn't he, because he's got some gold.

Yes, yeah, yeah, no, he does. He's. He's a big pro gold. And rightly so. You know, he's not just with us, you know, he's been promoting this for 15 plus years. He's a former metals trader. You know, he's very, very pro gold. And like he said, you know, he's been saying this, he's been banging on this drum for a while and every single person that has followed his lead, you know, who went and purchased gold, and we don't do this for the short haul. This is not like a buy now, sell in six months. This is wealth protection.

Right.

So over a long period of time, people have done well from him.

So like in my book Money Matrix I talk about the stages of making money, managing money, multiplying money and then maintaining money. And actually maybe not anyone but many people could make a quick buck. But keeping it for a long time, most people can't do. Someone like Warren Buffett is brilliant at that, for example. So is this gold how you maintain long term wealth, Is that what you're saying?

You tell you think about how much this will be worth in 20, 30, 40 years time and how little, how.

Little money fiat currency will be worth in the same time.

One of two things is going to happen, by the way. That's my one. But one of two things will happen. This has to maintain its value throughout time.

Why does it have to?

Because it is money. It's the only thing that can be money. There's nothing else that can replicate this because it's a physical product. I know, I'm pro bitcoin myself. I'm a big investor and I, I see all the benefits of bitcoin. But let's say the government banned it or we lost power for many years. I'm being exaggerated, but you're buggered.

Yeah. Also no one really talks about this, but one of the reasons bitcoin could never be money, I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but bring it on. I like the debate. Bitcoin has been deflationary and when you have deflation increase in the value, people don't spend it, they hold it. So then you have no liquidity. Like for an economy to grow, people need to spend money. And if you have inflation, that is tomorrow I believe money will be less, I'll spend it today. If we believe money will be worth more tomorrow, we'll hold it. So that's why everyone holds bitcoin. So bitcoin is a store, it could never be money. I know I'll probably get debate me, but it's deflationary.

Michael Saylor Microstrategy says it best. Bitcoin is not currency, it's capital.

So it's digital gold.

That's exactly it.

Yeah.

And it's true. Yeah, that's exactly it. How many people actively spend their bitcoin? Daily, monthly, yearly? Never? No, not when you see the. Everyone who's got bitcoin now is hodling.

Yeah.

Every single one of them.

They are, yeah.

You know that's not a currency, it's just capital. Yeah, digitally.

So bitcoin or gold what's best depends.

From what angle you're looking at.

From your angle, I would say if to build gun to your head, you have to choose. You can have all your gold and no bitcoin or all your bitcoin and no gold.

I would choose the gold.

Is that because you own direct bullion?

No.

Is that because you're really biased?

I am pure gold. That's it. I just love, love gold, you know, and it's ingrained in us. People don't realize, but you know, well.

How many years is gold old? How many Thousands?

At minimum, 5,000. But it's obviously been here since the creation of Earth, right? Yeah. So.

Well, actually, apparently gold existed before the earth.

Someone told me there's many theories about what gold is. Yeah. Whether that was the creation of the universe and an exploding star that traveled all the way through the universe and then the limited amount that hit our planet and then solidified become gold. Now if that is the case, you think of that, what's the likelihood that that's traveled through space and landed up in my fingers right now on your table?

Wow. Yeah. However many trillion to the N9 degree. Yeah.

Now that. That's a miracle.

Keep talking. I'm just going to go on grock. And how old is gold?

Now if you think, what do people train? What do athletes do for 4, 5, 6, 7, 10 years to train for?

Not a bitcoin.

No. They all want the gold medal, right?

Yeah.

You know when you're a child and you leave your child with someone, has he been good as gold?

What does the goose lay golden eggs? Not bitcoin. Look at this. Gold is estimated to be 4.5 billion years old. Now let's look at how old bitcoin is. And by the way, I'm not a bitcoin hater, nor are you. But these discussions are important. One thing I want to say about bitcoin evangelists is they're not open to the downsides. And I think that's dangerous. And I think you should always look at the downsides of the thing that you're putting your money into. I remember having a chat with someone who'd made tens of millions in crypto, some bitcoin, but this other coin. And I said, why don't you what I call reverse pound cost average and take out some of your profits and put it into real estate and put it into other assets. He's like, why would I? Because I can get a better return in bitcoin and everything else. Obviously his bitcoin still. Okay. But his other cryptos went to zero shitcoins. Yeah. So is it a good strategy to make money in bitcoin and then take some of it out and store it into gold?

100%. 100%. Why would you not?

Well, people would say because I can get a better return in bitcoin.

Yeah. But then like in those instances like we've seen, you know, there is a big volatility when it comes to crypto. But when you're saying about, you know, whether gold or crypto, gold or bitcoin, what you've got to understand is these are so, so different. Everyone's always referring to bitcoin or gold.

Yeah.

But this, that's like referring to a car or a tire, you know, the, the, it's not the same. Whilst they might be within the same space, they're so different for their, for their properties, you know. And I'm a big believer in crypto. You know, I think the next 10.

Years, crypto or bitcoin? Because there's bitcoin.

I mean I, I'm, I'm 100, I'm 95 bitcoin, you're 5% eth. That's my, yeah, that's, that's my, my crypto portfolio, you know, but I've got people who work with us, good friends of mine who are XRP disciples.

Doge.

Yeah, but daddy can't, you can't, you can't, you can't knock him, you know, he's been so, so hell bent that it's going to. And now look at xrp.

Yeah.

You know, every time I'm looking at it more recently, you know, another couple of hundred millions just been added.

Wow. So, yes, sorry to jump in, but gold is 4.5 billion years old. Bitcoin is 16 years old. So gold has a bit more on the history.

Massively so.

Yeah.

And I always, I know it's a, it's maybe not a direct comparison, but I always believe that every technology has its time comes and goes.

Right.

And I always think of, do you remember msn, Microsoft, msn? This was like before Facebook.

MSN Messenger.

Yeah, yeah. And you put your pictures on MySpace. MySpace, that's it.

So MSN was the messenger anymore and then MySpace. Yeah. And it was where rock bands would go and put their profile or it was before Friends United and Friends United was before Facebook. So your point is, where is MSN and MySpace now? Where is Friends Reunited now?

They always have their time. Yeah, now I know.

Do you think that's going to be with Bitcoin then.

No, I don't, because I know obviously it's. It's a limited supply. And when you consider the organizations that are now involved with bitcoin, it's like Blackrock. Blackrock, microstrategy.

Yeah.

The U.S. government.

Yeah.

You know, who knows? I know. Look at Trump. You know, he's openly come out and said, we are going to make this a crypto safe country. We want to jump on the bandwagon.

Well, I mean, bitcoin as a standard, like gold, feels like it could work massively.

So, you know, and if you look, if you. I'm really big on microstrategy. I love what Michael Saylor says about how an economy could, you know, why you think about the amount of money we waste currently. We waste a tremendous amount of money.

By we, do you mean us?

The UK government? The UK government. This is what really gets my goat. We waste a tremendous amount of money. Now, if we was to create a bitcoin reserve, and I'm pretty sure a Middle Eastern country is now on the bandwagon of doing this, there's a wallet that is slowly accumulating a large amount of bitcoin. But if we was to create a reserve bitcoin currency for the UK as well as the US as, just think how much that would be in five years time, in 10 years time, then when we get to that 21 million.

Mark, you can't make more of it, you can't print more of it.

We're already on the other side. You know, the miners, the halving is, you know, I think we're at the point now where it was halved last year, got another four years and there'll be another halving, you know, so it's becoming less incentivized for the miners. Well, when there's less bitcoin, more people hold, you know, it becomes almost impossible to get, you know, the further along that we get. What do you think that's going to do to the value going to increase? Right, so then you're creating a reserve currency with your national reserves. Well, how amazing is that? You know, it used to be done with gold until 1971, but then you look at the gold reserves around the world now, you know, well, the US didn't.

Didn't the UK sell all of our gold?

Gold and brown? Yeah, yeah. But if you look at the US holds, on paper, apparently has the most amount of gold, 8,000 tonnes. And there's a. There's a famous saying, he who makes the rules. Sorry, he who holds the Gold makes the rules.

Do you remember Ba Baracas Bane? Yeah. The, the golden rule is the man with the gold rules.

That's it. So it's no coincidence that the US have the most amount of gold.

Did you say 8,000 tons?

8,000.

I'm going to, I'm going to Grok. How much that's worth?

8,000 tons.

How much is 8,000 tons?

Now if you, if you think about how this is now going, you look at the US, they got 8,000 tons. Then you look at the IMF, you look at Germany, you look at China, you look at Russia, they are all central banks buying a massive amount of gold.

Why aren't we, did you say to me that the bank of England doesn't have much gold at the moment?

I mean, we sold half of it when Brown was in Chancellor.

We sold half of our gold.

Half of our gold.

And then didn't it go through the roof in price afterwards?

Well, Nigel did a speech in Brussels where he had Gordon Brown in the room. You can YouTube this. He had Gordon Brown in the room and he said, you've sold half of our gold reserves. You've forward priced what you're going to be selling it at. Any trader is going to take that because they know, okay, basically we sold it at a massive discount. The minute like the, the, the, it's like the minute we executed that deal, the gold price went through the roof.

And why, why did he sell half of our gold?

You need to get Gordon Brown as your next guest for that.

I might do, I might borrow your gold. This is, by the way, this is the longest I've ever seen Grok try and answer a question. It literally took 10 seconds when I asked it, how much is 8, 000 tons of gold worth? It's 520 billion.

Wow.

Yeah. So can you tell us your story of how you got into gold and how you set up direct bullion and when you set it up and what, I mean, why you love gold and why you run it as a business?

Yeah, sure. I mean it's a bit of a mad journey to be honest, because I had no financial background.

I'll say you were an ex banker or.

No, no, no, that was in the navy. Yeah, I've done five years in the Royal Navy.

Oh, wow.

Left the navy, went into building work. Wasn't really my cup of tea.

You worked on the building sites?

Carpenter.

Right?

Yeah, yeah. And you know, when you're not passionate about it, you know, I didn't love it. Yeah. But whilst I was doing that, you know, was fortunate enough to get like tax rebates along the way, you know. So when I worked for a friend of mine, got a pretty decent tax rebate. One of my friends invested in, invested in gold. I put my money into a property venture, building an extension. It was a complete disaster. We'd done really good job but yeah, we just basically got knocked for the money. That was just like the snowball effect of, of, of my disdain for the job. Didn't have any passion towards it, but looked at this gold investment and wow, that's something I never knew anything about. I spoke to a friend of mine who was working at a gold company, said, this is what we do, think you'd be good at it, let's come see how you get on. And instantly loved it.

So you went and worked for someone else who was selling gold then.

Thought I could do it better set up. We're in our 10th year this year.

So Direct bullion is your company. Been ten years.

Ten years this year.

Wow.

Yeah.

And you've brought a lot of gold with you. Just as a reminder for everyone, if you can guess to the nearest hundred pounds how much gold and silver is here, I'm going to give you some of my silver. It. If we get someone who's the closest but not quite there, I still might do it. I can't give away any other gold because it's Paul's and not mine. Paul's got the gold, I've got the silver. So you've been running direct bullion for 10 years?

10 years. We've, we've, we've an office here in the UK, we've got an office in Miami and in LA, which is. We've actually seen a bit of, bit problems at the moment. Obviously you've seen the fires.

Yeah, it's terrible.

That's affecting.

Shout out to all the firefighters out.

There and honestly, it's just like it is, it's catastrophic what you're seeing, you know. And have you been to la?

No. Yes.

It's so vast, like you can't actually imagine just how big that area is. But it's, it's really, it's quite devastating. So. But yeah, we've got an office there and then we're looking to launch in the Middle east this year.

Right.

And then who knows from there on.

Wow. So you predicted the 20, 25 gold price. What about the five year price of gold and silver? Where's gold and silver going in five years from now?

So five years for silver I think will be $45.

Right. Which is 50% if it's a minimum now.

Yeah. Minimum. Minimum $45.

This because it's my silver. You're touching it in the middle.

You know I can get you many more.

You told me off. When? You told me off when I.

Well, the demand, the supply for this is 900 million tons.

What's the supply of gold?

42 million.

Right.

Significantly less.

Wow. About 20 times more supply of silver.

Yeah. Hence why that's precious. This is more industrial. But back to your question of the price.

I think 50% in five years for silver.

45 minimum.

Yeah.

Top range, I would estimate around 70.

Wow. So you're talking 50 to 120% growth in five years in silver.

That's maximum.

Yeah. In your humble opinion?

In my opinion.

Disclaimer.

I like to see you hold me to it.

Yeah. Well, we'll do another one of these in five years and we'll lock it in.

This I truly believe. I think you're looking at 3,000 by the end of this year.

Wow.

So it's currently what, 2,200.

So 2,200 you think, to 3,000?

I think so.

What conservatively 35, 40%.

Conservatively 3,000. But over the next five to ten years this will go to $10,000 an ounce. So about 7,000 pounds over the next five, five years or so.

So that's more than a tripling.

And I think if this everything bubble comes, I mean the research.

You mean the everything recession?

The everything, yeah.

Do you think it'd be a recession or a depression?

I don't think there can be a depression because I think there's too much that make too much money. The problem with the depression, last time there was no money. Right. No one could access any money. This is where I think the no cash is coming into effect. I think the long term play here with whoever pulls the strings is if you alleviate cash and eventually it becomes like, oh, do you remember that when we used to pay cash? Crazy. Now everything's on our phones. How easy is it to now manipulate the market where you can control everything? And if the CBDC is coming, does that scare you? It's the worst. It's the absolute worst scenario you can be have.

Why is it the worst if you, if you have.

Let's, let's go back to the COVID times. Yeah. When everyone was just giving free money. How many people in the UK thought to themselves, wow, we've been given this money for free. I would say a majority now those people there, they're the people that everyone wants to target. Yeah. Because there's more of them. So if you create a digital currency where we go on some sort of universal credit, where everyone is given a ration, a ration where they would look at that and think, oh, well, that's better than what I was currently getting. This works for me. But now we get to the stage where that would then move on further and further and further to the point where you look at China where now you have social scoring. So now if you're being given rations of currency that's digital and you don't quite meet the social scoring, let's say you're eating a lot of junk food.

Or, or they don't like your social media post or.

Yeah, or you do something that, you know, you go to a.

You leave the house after 9 o'.

Clock or you go to a march to protest, you know, anything along those lines, then you just think, look at the control that they could then have over you, you know, and that social score might stop you from traveling or it might say to you, look, you're not going to receive any more rations until you complete xyz.

And if all your money is digital, they can just essentially stop your passport because they stop your money. And if they want to, if they want curfews, we just shut your money down. You can't even get a taxi, can hardly leave the house.

And if you have a fine, let's say you get caught speeding or, you.

Know, already already paid out of your bank account before you get home, before.

You'Ve even breathed shit, you know, and that's that. I mean, that's going down the rabbit hole. But, you know, there's no reason why over 10, 20, 30 periods, kwasi kwatang, he said it best. You know, they try to do too much too quick, right?

Yeah.

But if you slowly implement things over a long period of time, it just becomes normal. And unfortunately we're seeing at the moment we're in a cashless society because it's now normal. It's easy. Yeah, they make it easy so you don't have to use cash, but really that's your freedom.

And do you think gold is the ultimate freedom?

You can take that anywhere in the.

World because you couldn't take the pound anywhere in the world. And by the way, you and I just went to Dubai. You take your pound over to Dubai, it doesn't go very far.

You probably. This is a mad one. We went to Dubai, I bought two coffees, two sandwiches, cost me 50 quid. In pound terms, 48 pounds, 74. Something like for two coffees and two sandwiches. 50 pounds.

Yeah.

That's the power of the pound. Right. That's the growth that the current establishment want to try.

And that's what a great nation stands for. That's how well labour are recovering the economy. So Robert Kiyosaki on my show said that gold is God's money, and rightly so. And what does he mean by that?

This is everything. This is everything.

He's saying everything. But what do you. I mean, I actually got a gold watch on as well.

Everything.

You got gold lining in your suit. Do you wear gold pants?

No.

Why is gold everything? Why is gold God's money?

Gold is. I truly believe that this is. Oh, that's just cost you.

Oh, you didn't moan when you moved all my silver over there.

No, I truly believe the reason that this is everything is because, look, gold can move 5% down, 10 up. Yeah. Over a period of time. There's no real risk to.

So it's not volatile.

You're never going to see it. One thing I know for sure is you will never open the paper one day and it'll go. Gold drops to zero. Can't happen.

Yeah.

Because it's. It just will never happen. You know, the Romans, the Aztecs, the. The Egyptians, they went up, they killed each other over this stuff, you know, And I think because it is a physical product that is stunning, you know, you can't deny that when you have. It's the best.

Well, we wear it. It's jewelry. That. Gold is jewelry. Yeah.

Now, you can't deny that. The reason I think it is everything is because any investment that you are going to make is either going to go up or down. Most of the time now, it will keep going up and keep going up and keep going up and keep going up. Until when. Until it goes back down. There's nothing out there that will just constantly keep going up. If they did, we'd all do it, we'd all be in there. So there is. There has to be volatility. But when you're at the top, that's when you really should be thinking to yourself, right, I need to secure somebody. It's back to your question about the crypto. You know, if you're securing that, and I said it on the way up here to my business partner, you know, we own an acquisitions company. We're looking at a business at the moment that we could potentially exit at 200 million. Now, we said if we did that by the time we've paid everything out, what are we going to do in the money? Now? If you sit in on 200 million, there's not many assets that you can hold that you know will preserve that wealth over a long period of time with no aggro. Because at the end of the day it's a solid bit of asset that.

Just sits there 4.5 billion years old.

And that is why it is everything, because it is to secure your wealth for the future. It really is. And that is why when you look at our best selling products at the moment, pensions, we are getting an unbelievable amount of people looking to put their pension into gold.

Most people didn't know you could do that. In fact, when we got to know each other, I didn't know you could do that.

Most people don't.

Yeah, my pensions, in other assets like real estate and in the stock market, I did know you could put gold into your pension.

And in all honesty, that is the view of most people that we speak to. They don't realize, they assume that if you're going to put your money into a pension, it's got to be in one of the top 50 pension providers, those same pension providers that are all wrapped up in commercial property, in canary wall, sitting on empty buildings.

Right now, when that bubble goes, your pension's going down.

Look at 2008, you know, there was a lot of people that were coming up to retirement that had a vast amount of money in pensions. Financial crash happened. All of those people suffered because they couldn't retire.

Yeah.

You know, and now, you know, it took five, six, seven years for them to get back to where they were. But do you have five, six, seven years when you're 67, 68, you know, so that is why nowadays especially, you know, I looked at a lot of pension companies, their performance for 20, 24 and you could ask your. What it is so difficult to find the result of a half decent. They do not publicize it.

Right.

And when they do, you have to sort of dig through and understand because now, I mean now they're not, they don't even put whether they're high risk or low risk anymore. Now they put it as adventurous portfolios. They do.

You got such spin.

Yeah.

Adventure.

If you look now, we've got a big list in the office. So easily the length of this screen and you have, it's all of the pension companies and all of their different funds and portfolios and some of them will say balanced, some of them will say adventurous, none of them say high risk. Low risk, medium. They don't, they just have them as adventurous now when you're looking at them, you know, over a one year period, five year period, 10 year period, 20 year period, gold has outperformed every single one of them.

Wow. So if someone wants to look at how to put gold into their pension, can you help them?

That's what we're here for.

So how can they do that?

They can come to our website, directbullion.com.

Do they get a bit of a deal if they go through robmore.direct bullion?

Anything that comes for you, mate, gets get special treatment, you know that.

And I just want to publicly say thank you because I just bought that off you. This. What's this I just bought off you?

Pamp Fortuna 50 gram gold bar.

Pamp Fortuna 50 grand gold bar. And you reckon it's already got up since I bought it off you, Bearing.

In mind you got it at a very, very, very good price.

Thank you. And you're pure profit already. You'll look after my community.

Always do.

Yeah, appreciate that. So they could go robmore.directbullion.com and we'll put the information in the, in the notes as well. They can buy gold and silver off you straight, can they?

Yeah, yeah. What normally happens with people that come through, you know, even if you're unsure, even if you, you know, you think to yourself, you've got a pension pot, you're unhappy, which most people are. Most people haven't got a clue where their pension is. They don't know whether it's in the stock market, bond market, you know, they don't know the ratios of what's weighted where. We can help with all of that.

Okay.

You know, you just let us know what it is you're looking to do. You might even just have a question. It might not be for you, but, you know, you're more than happy to either reach out via you or you can call us. You know, we've got a whole team that's on standby to help.

I think you've given some information, some resources and some education material, haven't you? At my on the robmore.directbullion.com link. So, yeah, just to let you know my interest, Paul and I have partnered. I'm an ambassador for direct bullion. I buy my gold and silver from Paul. I don't take any commissions or any cut or anything of any gold anyone would buy from Paul. We've done our deal. I'm proud to be your ambassador along with Nigel Farage. I'll tell you what I want to do. I want to have a bit of a fun round because we've got some fun, racy, spicy, interesting questions as well as the standard monetary based questions. So let's do them. Who's the youngest client you've ever had that's bought gold off you?

We've got an 18 year old kid who we didn't believe at first because, you know, he's very savvy, knew a lot about the financial markets to the point where we thought, is this fraud? You know, it's not often we get someone who's 18, that was what, maybe eight, seven, eight years ago, still buying today.

So an 18 year old was buying gold off you. Wow. I would, I hope when my son is 18, he's smart enough to think about buying gold.

And the crazy thing is I think it was either a five, two and a half gram gold bar. Five gram gold bar, which is, funny enough, I have one here. Yeah, five gram gold bar there. So you can see starting small, but that today compared to when he bought, you know, significantly more. And that's what we get. A lot of people do though, you know, they're just, they might think gold's out of their reach.

Yeah.

But a couple of hundred quid here and there a month soon adds up.

Well, that's also why silver's good because you can start if you like, really don't have much money at all. You can start buying 1 ounce silver coins, then 2 ounce silver coins and then these silver bars. This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with Direct Bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold, well as silver, from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold. And you can get the Pension Gold Investing Guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invested things that I invest in too. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com I always say to everyone, because for 27 years, I'd get socks for Christmas, I'd get shitty gifts all the time. And like, you look there going, thanks and you don't want it. Imagine if since age 1, everyone who bought me birthday, Christmas, anniversary and christenings bought me silver coins, gold coins. I'll be a trillionaire by now. So buying your kids? I am, my business partner, I'm his son's godfather and I buy him silver coins. Actually bought him some gold recently as well. It's a great way to get your kids into investing, buy them silver coins. And then, like you said, people, I guess people think, you know, you need a few grand to get into gold. You're saying you can get in with a few hundred. What's the smallest denomination you can buy in weight?

1 gram.

You can buy a gram of gold?

Yeah.

Have you?

I don't think I have no gram, do I? It's the size of your little finger now.

Wow. What's this one here?

That's a five gram.

That's five gram. Wow.

So one gram at the moment, you're looking at about. So you can.

You can buy a fingernail size 80.

Pounds, I think it is.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah.

Anyone can get into that.

What I tend to do. So if any of my friends have babies, I get them a year of the whatever. So this year, 20, 25, year of the Snake. So I'll get them a year of the snake silver coin.

Oh, nice. Yeah, that's cool. Do you. You have a deal with. About the bank of England on. Sorry, the Royal Mint on. Tell us about that.

So we have worldwide exclusivity outside of the UK to supply those coins there. Judah Beast Panthers.

Right.

One ounce, quarter ounce and silver ounce.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So any, any dealer without outside of the UK has to purchase those for us.

How did you. How do you blag?

That one said, I know you know, I am. I've. I've been, you know, we've been doing this for 10 years now. We've got a nice relationship with the raw mint and the company that did take it. We were their best customer for these coins. We knew that they potentially weren't going to carry on that contract. So we swooped in there, managed to get it before, before anyone else.

Awesome. Right, next question. Bit of fun. What's the weirdest place that you've ever heard people store their gold?

I don't know about the weirdest place, but the weirdest scenario about it is when we first started this up, we had no money. Yes. And no investment. So if it was anywhere local in the Southeast, I would go and deliver it myself. And we had customers that would then show us where they would put it. And we had one guy who had a, you know, gas, electric, boxes that you get outside your house. He'd put it all in there and put it all in his loft, you know, in the eaves of the, of the loft and then cover it in the rock wall.

Right.

And he showed us where that was. You know, he was like, come on, I'll take you upstairs. You know, we're giving him his coins.

Why would he show you where he stored his gold?

Trustworthy, aren't I? Yeah, obviously.

Wow. And do you think storing it yourself or storing it in a vault is better?

Depends on your scenario and your situation. If, I mean, we have customers that like to buy gold but live in a high crime rate area. So we either supply a safe for them so they can have that fitted and they store it on their own terms. That's our preferential choice because at the end of the day, my job is to give you financial freedom to do that. I give you the gold. Yeah. However, some people, we've got a lot of elderly clients who, they just don't want it. Yeah. So we will store it on their behalf.

Right.

And we'll do that in either Brinks or Loomis.

All right.

So it really does depend on your situation.

So it's stored in a secure vault and then what, is there extra fees for that?

Yeah, we charge 1% a year.

Okay. I mean, I'll just share what I think. I like ownership and I think those two firms you mentioned are probably quite trustworthy and secure. But surely you want to own and have your own gold.

That's always why it's my preferred option that you take delivery. Yeah. There's nothing better then. So we, the whole process is tracked. So we know when you're getting your delivery. So for us, you know, when you take delivery of that, we make sure, we give you a call to make sure you're happy.

Right.

Do you Know how many customers that receive their gold complain?

No.

None.

None.

They get it.

Sometimes you complain when you just got gold.

And the thing is, I think when you're parting with 50, 60, 70,000 pounds and you've never done it before, there's an element of relief once it turns up. And then they're like, wow, I love this, you know.

So have you ever. Has any of your gold ever been lost in the post?

Not once. We've had one fraudulent transaction where someone.

In the postal system nicked it.

They didn't know wasn't it? Well, we don't know. My suspect is there was a transaction made with a stolen credit card and it was intercepted on delivery.

So how do you stop posties opening them up and nicking it?

Yeah, if you can figure that out, then you run to a winner. I think the Royal Mail do a really good job. You know, we use those for up to certain values. But now they've all started wearing body cams, so, you know, we see a lot of. A lot of deliveries that people claim that they didn't do. But once you receive the body cam footage, guess what? Later delivery.

Right.

So it does alleviate that. But then if you start to go up over a certain value and use a more specialist courier service, they will, you know, you can't take it without sign for. And they also wear body cams. So we've been very fortunate along the way, you know, that, that we've. Other than that one fraudulent transaction, we've actually delivered everything.

Right. And with gold, is there an amount above where it's not really liquid or tradable anymore? And should people buy coins or bars?

Again, that depends on your situation. Coins are much more easy to trade also because. Yeah, well, they're UK coins as well, so they're 100% tax free. There's no capital gains tax on these coins.

Right. If you are these legal tender.

Legal tender. So that's got a face value of £100.

Yeah.

If you were crazy enough, you could go into a shop.

I'm going to do that. We should do that on a TikTok live and go in and see if they'll take it.

They won't.

They won't.

They won't.

But if they were. But can you refuse to not pay in any other way but the gold. Can you just put the gold down and say, I want 100 coffees? So. So this is legal tender, so you're going to be able to use this to buy things.

So if you went into a news agent for argument's sake and said, Look, I want £100 worth of sweets. He theoretically or she theoretically should take this. Yeah. And to the equivalent of £100. Now you'd be a nutter because obviously this is £2,000 worth. £2,200 worth of gold.

But I want to do that.

Yeah, I know. I've actually seen people trying to do it on YouTube. You know, they're going around trying to spend the gold and people are like, no, we only, we only take pounds. Like you only take physical, physical paper. But I mean, if someone wanted to try that with me, you know, and you want to buy something for £100 with this, I'll do it all day long. Yeah. So coins is, is, is, is much more tradable.

Is it? Because it's a lower denomination.

Yeah. And also as well, like if you've got, let's say that's 20 grand there and you just want to access five grand, you can just divide that into two. If you've got a kilo bar that is now 70 odd thousand and you want to access 10,000 of it, you're not going to sit there and ham and chisel and, you know, try and guesstimate how much 10 grand's worth. You know, you've got to sell the whole bar, break that down into the denominations that suit your requirements. So it really does depend on what you're looking for. From a pension point of view. If you're putting your gold, your pension into gold, you have to have bars, right. HMRC have it that you could only put it into bars.

Okay. And what's the smallest bar you can get?

1 gram.

Oh, so you can still get small denominations.

Yeah, so, so how we like to structure our pension pots is we try and work with the customer forward thinking. Now if you, if you, let's say you put £100,000 in, there's no point you taking a kilo bar and hoping that in 10 years time, or 20 years time, you can start withdrawing £2,000amonth. It's not going to work. You have to sell it. It makes it a lot more difficult. So what we would do is we would give you a mixed portfolio of anything.

So you've got liquidity, basically.

So you might have 50% of your portfolio in one ounce bars, you might have 25% in 20 gram bars, 25% in 10 grand bars.

Right.

We want to make it as easy as possible for the future.

Yeah.

So there might be an instance where they, you know, your kitchen might need repairing. I need three grand. Five grand, ten grand, whatever it may be. And we can break those bars up into the denomination that you need.

Right.

And you get the money.

And is there a size of bar above which is very illiquid and difficult?

Yeah, I would say one kilo. It becomes difficult.

Right.

Market bars, which is 12 and a half kilos, then that's near on impossible. That's what the banks trade with. That's what central banks buy. So, you know, if you think James Bond volt, those huge bars that weigh, it feels a lot more than 12 and a half kilos when you pick one up, believe me. Yeah, but they are. They're there for the upper end, you know, for the central banks. But the amount of people that assume that when they buy gold, that that's turning up is unbelievable. Most people go, I thought it's going to be bigger than that. Yeah, yeah. That's what everyone says.

Yeah, yeah. When they get their fingernail sign of gold.

But we have customers who buy like, we've had it for. They've bought kilos a month and then use them as doorstops.

They use kilo gold bars as doorstops.

Yeah. And I said to him, like, surely you're not worried? He went, mate, if someone's going to rob my house, they're not going to nick my doorstop. Method to the madness.

What's the most amount of gold you've ever seen with your own eyes or touched?

I wouldn't know in terms of a monetary value, but bigger than this room. I've been in a room twice the size of this room with stacks of gold.

Have a guess how much that is. I mean, you must. It must have a rough estimation of tons. We can grok it. I mean, I would have a guess how many tons.

I would say. So you're looking at one market bar would. Is about 700,000 at the moment. And you would say there's probably 50 on each shelf and there is one, two, maybe 10 shelves. So that's 500 just there. So 500 times 700,000, what would that be? Yes. What's that one?

350 million.

So that's just on that one shelf. And now if you times that by another 10.

Yeah, well, we can work that out, but yeah. And then What?

So that's 3.5 billion.

Right, right.

And then. Then you've got a lock up, which would be 4 of coins. So, yeah, I would. I'd probably say 10 billion.

You've seen £10 billion worth of gold.

And you want to see what I've seen? In silver.

Can I just ask you an important question about the gold first? When you saw £10 billion worth of gold, did your pants move?

Yeah.

We can cut this out if you want, but, I mean, it is slightly arousing gold, isn't it? It's the best because it's just fucking real, real life. It's way more powerful than notes. You know, you said to me, the size of a million quid. You asked me, you know the scene, a million quid in cash. And you reckon the size is like that? It's not very big. And you see a million quid in cash, you know. Oh, is that.

It is. It is deceptively shocking.

Yeah.

The sizes of it. You know, when you, when. When you look at. When you go into one of these vaults, it's impressive. It is impressive.

Yeah.

And you. They show you around, you just think, wow.

Yeah.

This is. This is crazy.

Do you think we could do some content in one of these vaults? Do you think they'd let us?

Probably not.

That's a shame. That makes me want to do it more. You said you've seen more in silver.

I've seen towers of silver twice the size of this room stacked up in.

So that's like, what, 25ft tall.

The bars, they're like one massive bar. And you. There's pallet after pallet after pallet so high that when we. I was on the second floor looking up at the tower. That's how. And it is. And it's. They're holding on behalf of a bank. Yeah.

Wow.

It. That was like, really impressive.

Yeah. What's the craziest story a client's ever told you?

I mean, there's a few. I mean, we've got. I don't know if I can say that one.

Say that one, please. We can always edit out afterwards.

I mean, we've got a client at the moment.

You can name them.

We've got a client at the moment that's going for a huge lawsuit and the money in it is insane. Half a billion.

He's going through a half a billion lawsuit?

Yeah.

Why? What?

I think it's a family dispute. It's all very much publicized in the paper, but very, very good customer. And once that lawsuit happens. Oh, well, that's going to be a very big gold purchase.

So he's going to buy a load of gold off you once he wins that lawsuit.

Potentially.

Right.

Or she.

Or they.

Yeah.

Okay. What's the most amount of gold a client's ever bought of you in one go?

We don't actually get huge, huge one time transactions most of our transactions because I would say we have about a 75% retention rate on customers. So we've got let's say 10,000 customers. 75% of them are constantly trading so it's very, very good in that aspect.

Okay, so let me ask it another way.

Yeah.

What's the most amount of gold a client's ever bought off you?

I mean we've got a lot of, I think we've got a lot of one million pound customers. I mean we've got one customer's five million in.

Bought five million quid worth of gold off you.

Yeah but over a long period of time.

But still I mean yeah, this is what it is.

We actually don't get many big, big one off transactions.

Why?

I don't know, we just don't seem to.

Because people drip it in.

Yeah. I think it's not really that type of.

Is it? Because they don't want to make massive.

Transactions and alerts and also it becomes difficult to make those big transactions so people like we, we get, we've lost millions, I'm talking millions through banks not allowing customers to trade in gold like millions. It is frightening some of the building societies soon as we know that there's a building society involved the amount of aggravation that then causes is phenomenal. Well they just won't let people buy gold, any gold.

They physically, they won't let them buy gold. Banks won't let people buy gold.

They physically tell them we will not allow this transaction.

Why?

Because it's gold. Yeah but to them that's money out of the system. They will always paint the picture of this is very volatile. You know gold is a scam. So we get all of this all of the time but we, but our customers are so loyal. Like we've got a really good customer at the moment who had half a million pounds in his account. He wanted to do £100,000 give or take. I can't remember the exact figure but it's about 100k and tried to do the transaction. They outright blocked it. He said no, no, I've been buying from these for years. I've received all of my products so far I've got the gold, you know now I want to do another 100,000. They said no, you're not allowed to do it through our bank. So he had to close his account, transfer that money to another account to make that transaction. That is what we're dealing with.

Well NatWest will not let me buy more than five grands worth of Bitcoin in a month and one and a half grand max per transaction, which means I've lost out on putting a lot of money into bitcoin. I post about this and people say, oh, well, it's anti money laundering. But protecting people from scams, is that just being naive for the banks just, they want, they don't want to give you your money back because then they can't profit on your money.

Also, do they have the money to give?

Well, we know they don't because fractional reserve banking states they only have to keep 10% of it, some even less, apparently.

I think it's actually more like 4%.

So if you've got 100 grand in savings, the bank have got 4 of it and they've loaned and invested and earning on the other 96 grand. And people don't think that's a scam and they think that that's fine because it's protection and anti money laundering and safe and secure.

I mean, wake up, they think they're protected by the FSCS.

Oh, what, the 85 grand insurance policy?

Yeah. Now if you look at the small print, if you look at all these banks in that small print, we may, there's a very vital word there, we may pay up to 85,000.

And let me ask people this, insurance, how easy is it to claim on insurance? Right outside here, near where you're parked, a lady in a Toyota reversed into my Aston Martin and I was a bit like, oh, well, you know, I'll let her off, I'll just call the insurance company and claim off her insurance. Probably cost her 100 quid, cost me five grand, I'm claiming on her insurance. And I phoned them up and not only did that bang up my policy, even though it was claiming on hers, even though she didn't dispute it, the 15 other cars of my business partner and my letting agency, all the premiums on all 15 fucking cars went through the roof in the end. I didn't claim it's cheaper to pay the five grand to repair my car, which means I'm paying for insurance and then I'm having to pay for the repairs. That's like me paying for the NHS and then having to pay private. If anyone believes insurances are there for the humanitarian interest to pay out and look after you, wake the fuck up.

I think a very, very big indicator of insurance companies is going to come to light with the houses that have caught fire in la.

Shit, yeah.

Let's see what happens there.

Because well, I mean the insurance companies aren't going to be able to afford to rebuild all these towns, are they?

I think, I think I loosely read something in the lines of about 60.

Billion it's going to cost.

I mean that where does that. If that's not the biggest eye opener for insurance you've ever seen, then yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Because people forget what insurance is as a profit making corporation for maximizing shareholder value. Just like a bank is. People think it's a public service. Their job is to make profit which means that you pay more than you claim. So you are net down. My business partner back in the early years taught me self insurance. So obviously legally you have to have fire insurance, you have to have car insurance. I get that because it's safety. That aside, he just said put a bit of your money each year away, stick it in gold and you've got your own insurance policy.

That is exactly what this is.

So gold insurance is God's insurance policy, wealth insurance.

Because what, this is what baffles me. People's wealth is everything to them. Right. If you get to 65 and you lose everything, you don't have the life to go back out there and do it all again. You know, you're tired, you want to enjoy it. When you're getting to this point from 40 years onwards you've got to start protecting yourself, you know. And this is why this is God's money, because it is your wealth insurance. This will protect your wealth. Now it might not make you a multi multi millionaire, it's not designed for that.

But it will keep you a multi multi millionaire.

If you're, if you've got a few hundred thousand pounds in the bank, these will keep you with a few hundred thousand pounds. Yeah.

Does this beat inflation?

Massively.

So then it can make you wealth. It can, you're not selling it like that probably because you don't want to oversell it. But if it, if it beats inflation then have enough, long enough and it can build wealth and not just store it.

And this is a long term hold, right?

Yeah.

This is, this is why I say your end destination for money should be this. So when you think 10, 20, 30 years in advance, that I know for a fact this will be worth significantly more in 30 years time than it is today. Just in fact it will be.

Let me ask you this just while it's in my head. Has anyone bought gold from you in bitcoin? Let me ask that again so we can get a better segue. Has anyone ever bought gold from you? In bitcoin?

Thankfully, yes.

Why thankfully?

I mean, they've purchased. Years ago, we, we actually had it.

So. So you take bitcoin for gold?

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Well, we say of course a lot of people won't take bitcoin.

Well, we do.

Right, yeah.

So. And thankfully we, we do as well because we've had it before. So obviously you get the bitcoin cycle. So when people, when the bitcoin is record highs of 60,000, you know, we were speaking to a lot of people who had Bitcoin at 2000 and now it's up to 60 for them to liquidate a part of that and hold it in gold. That is a very, very wise move. And then when you see that the price of bitcoin went from 60 back down to 20, first thing they did.

Sell the gold, buy the gold.

Can I get. I want to buy more bitcoin. So you just. And they're.

So you're playing the markets with and against each other, but in a low risk asset.

So they're using that and they know that the money that they transferred from bitcoin into gold was worth more than what they got, what they put in. So they got back more, which allowed them to buy more bitcoin at that low rate.

Right, so again, people go to robmore.directbullion.com and they can buy gold from you in bitcoin.

Correct.

Can they buy silver from you in bitcoin?

If they buy enough.

Right, yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, that's $30 or just over $30.

30 pounds.

It's 30 pounds announced now with VAT. Right, okay. Yeah.

So yeah, 25 pound, I think, is the silver price.

Right? Yeah. So that about 30 odd dollars. Just over $30, I think. All right then. Do you think Donald Trump with his inauguration will push the price of gold up?

Donald Trump loves gold. If you. I've listened to podcasts of him before. You know, he's got a lot of gold in his house. He's very pro gold. His family's very pro gold. Do I think he will push the price of gold up? Yes, I do, because he's very pro. Borrow more money. You know, he's built his whole career on debt. Right. If you inflate the in currency, gold has no option but to go up. So yes, I do think he will increase the price of gold.

Recently, Warren Buffett invested $1 billion into silver, but not gold. Do you know why he did that?

He doesn't like it. He doesn't like gold, doesn't believe in it.

Why doesn't he believe in gold?

That is a question I would love to ask him.

Well, I think I know, but I'd like your theory on why.

Well, he's under the impression that you spend all this money digging gold up and then you pay all this money for another bloke to store it underground. Now, he believes in the power of cash and compounding. And you don't get that with gold. You don't get a dividend, so it doesn't compound. But when I look at the cash reserves that they've been sitting on for the last number of years, waiting for whatever's coming to come. Now, if you're sitting on that cash and it's depreciated in value like it has, he's significantly going to see that more than anyone else. If he had held that in gold. Now, I do get his point, because that is a significant amount of money. And also it's not going to be as easily liquid because you're going to have to sell it to the major refiners or mints and suppliers from around the world because it's such a huge amount, because it's such a huge volume. But we're not saying you put all your money into it.

Right.

It's just protecting part of that. So I find it, you know, baffling. But who am I to question Warren Buffett?

Well, I've got a theory, and I think it's fine to question Warren Buffett. I don't think he holds cash in the way that we would or we're led to believe.

No.

Because I know who holds that cash. Yeah.

Who's sitting on that amount of money if.

Well, a, that. And if Warren Buffett is the smartest compound investor maybe that's ever lived, he knows inflation better than anyone else. And he knows inflation's gone down 30% in five years. And he knows if he liquidates, it could be a few years before he's going to make his next move. Because Michael Lewis did the same. You know, the big short guy sold all of his assets.

Michael Burry.

Michael Burry, Right. Yeah. Why do I keep saying Michael Lewis. Yeah. But the big short guy. And they're not. They're not sitting on billions of cash. They can't be. No, what I think they are is sitting on billions of liquidity. Would you agree?

Yes, because at the end of the day, he did try to bail out. Well, didn't he buy the bank of America? Yeah, bank of America, Merrill lynch, didn't he? So theoretically, his liquidity is the bank, right? Yeah. So he's a major shareholder there. So you are. I think that is. It has to be that.

So my theory on why Buffett bought silver, not gold is because Buffett said that gold doesn't have a use and I guess he thinks silver does because it's used in car batteries, for example.

Industrial as opposed to precious.

Yeah.

So that would make sense.

Yeah. But you still like gold better than silver. Yeah, yeah. Do you think gold is cheap compared to silver? Because didn't they get depegged and de correlated? Weren't they kind of pegged together and would go up or down relatively the same? And then in, I think in the 90s or something, they got separated and gold went way up and silver didn't.

Go up as much close to the 90s.

Right.

It was Isaac Newton who used to be the leader of the raw mint. He used to run the raw mint.

Right.

You know where, you know in London where you've got Tower. Tower of London.

Yeah.

So behind that, the building that's the original Royal Mint.

Right.

And Isaac Newton used to run it.

Right.

Now, the genius that he is, it used to be pegged to each other. So you'd have the gold silver ratio and he knew that you could. That would never be able to be sustained.

Why?

Because if you think about how money is and how the supply of money and the amount of silver there is in the world compared to the amount of gold.

Right.

You can't maintain that because there's too much silver.

Right. So because they're not the same amount.

No, they're not the same. They're not the same. There's pressures industrial.

Yeah.

So he devised a way to remove that gold silver ratio. Well, it doesn't. So that doesn't. It doesn't really play into modern world anymore.

No.

People still use it as a barometer to measure, but it has no real world case for it anymore.

Because I kind of figured with them not being relative anymore to each other and gold soaring a lot more than silver, I thought, well, maybe that's a good reason to buy a bit more silver. But you're just saying that the prices are now just completely not related to.

Each other, in my opinion.

Yeah, of course. This is all your opinion disclaimer. Gold or the stock market? And why gold?

I'll tell you what my thing with the stock market is. Yeah. I think it's massively overinflated. Massively. And I know, look, you can put as a big advocate, you put your money in the S&P 500. It accumulates and does. Well, I have money in the S&P 500. I've got a tracker fund. So, you know, I believe in having diversity. But when I look at how the stock market is currently. Let's just create a company for a second. Yeah. And let's say it's worth a million pounds. Stock market value. A million pounds. And there's four shares each, individual share, 250,000 each. If that company worth a million pound was to buy back one person's share for 250,000, there's now three shares left. Now, what are those three shares worth? 333,000 pounds each. Has that company created any more value? No, the shares have gone up because now there's just less shares in that value. And I think that is massively what we are seeing at the moment. You look at the price of Facebook, you look at the price of Netflix, you know what, they're not paying any dividends. You're purely buying on the hope that someone else will buy it for you more in the future. And that is a majority of stocks now. Right. There's very, very few stock that pay a dividend. And I think that is why when you look at the stock market, I think the big correction will come. I really do. I think it will go the other way. The difference is, unlike before, when you heard of Black Mondays and Black Sundays, all these types of different disastrous stock days, those. We won't see those anymore because there's so much liquidity out there in. We'll just go and create more money. When they create this unbelievable amount of wealth, where's it all go? Go straight back into those companies because they know that the minute everyone sees that the crash is over, people who have wealth will be back into it and it's always the rich. And we are going to see the biggest transfer of wealth, I think, ever in human history over the next 10, 20 years.

So when do you think the market's going to crash? When do you think the everything bubble is going to burst? Won't hold you to it. But when do you think I would?

I've been saying it for.

Since lockdown.

Since after lockdown.

Yeah.

Because you cannot have what we had in 2021.

You can't give away free money and.

Have a trillion and expect no repercussions. So when does it come? It can't keep going. You cannot keep having this huge amount of debt and not expect some stay for it to go bang. Because eventually I know the amount of interest that we are Paying is astronomical.

And we borrow national debt, and we're.

Borrowing money to pay that interest.

So we're borrowing to pay, borrowing, borrowing to pay, borrowing.

So what happens when we cannot borrow to pay when it gets to that stage, what happens when it goes the other way? It has to go bang.

And you think when there's a recession, crash bubble burst, gold's going up.

That is what everyone will be scrambling for.

Wow, this has been a lot of fun. It's been educational. It's nice to sit in front of all this gold and silver. So let's tell. Let's tell everyone how much gold is there. I'm going to keep the. The guesses open because I'm not going to tell them how much silver is there. Oh, actually, we better not. I don't want to put you in any compromising position.

Well, it's all going to go back to the vault anyway.

And also, this isn't life. And so this will go out when you're in a secure, secret location that no one will know about and you're not in my office.

Yeah.

Is it more than a million or less than a million more. All right, there you go. There's your clue. So, Paul, thanks for coming in.

Thanks for having me.

And if people want to put gold in their pension or just buy gold or just buy silver one more time, where can they follow you and where can they do that?

They can go via your. Via your link, which is Rob Moore. Robmore.directbullion.com all right, excellent.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for having me. This episode was brought to you by Disruptive Media, helping bold entrepreneurs stand out through podcasting, video and social content. Visit disruptivemedia.co.uk to learn more.

SA.