Podcast

Do you know how much. Do you know what the total tax receipts for the UK government is?

I don't know.

It's about 1:1 or 1.1 trillion a year. Yeah. You know what the. The biggest line item on that spend is?

I would have thought, repaying the national debt.

No, the biggest line item is the NHS. It's 200 billion, so it's 20% of.

20 and it's a bucket with a great big hole in it.

Yeah, we should come back to that because I've got views on that. What do you think the second item is?

The national debt?

Paying off the national debt.

Yeah.

So the second line item is paying the interest.

That's what I meant. Yeah.

So it's 123.1 trillion.

Is it the national debt?

I don't know the number, but I know the interest alone is 120 billion a year.

Well, that works out about 3%. Sounds about right. Yeah.

Well, you're a money guy, you shouldn't know that. Yeah, yeah, smart. Do you know what we spend education?

Not enough.

73 billion a year. So we're now spending more a year on servicing debt.

Yeah. Which is getting bigger.

Which is getting. Yeah, it's getting bigger with some more interesting debt than we're spending on education.

Yeah, a lot more.

So imagine you had that 120 billion in education. You could triple the education budget if you had that money for education. Now, could you imagine the quality of the teachers we would have, the quality of the materials that the sports opportunities these kids will have? Can you imagine what we would be given if we had that? Maybe they wouldn't be looking to an Andrew Tate as a hero because they would have heroes in their classroom. Imagine you could double the salary of teachers. Like Louis CK does a whole skit about teachers and saying, why would anyone do this job? It's low paid. Also, if you do a brilliant job, what do you get? You don't get a bonus. You might become a head of department. But what I'm saying is, imagine you had that money for education. What the things you could do and the things you do with these kids and we don't. We have 120 billion just on services and interest of that. Why we said, why do we have so much debt? Actually, another question for you or another point for you. If we want to pay off that debt over, say, I don't know, 20 years, we have to take 240 billion out of our current spending. Okay. Because 120 billion. So we're increasing the national debt. By 100, 120 billion a year. Right. If we just want to get back to parity, we have to take 120 billion out. And if we want to start paying.

It off and there's no upside incentive for a politician to do that, is there?

Well, this is the problem, the whole system, you give politicians, this is like when we blame one party, people are like, oh, we need to get rid of Conservatives. Bring Labour in now and they're probably right. And what's going to happen, they're going to do exactly the same because there is no incentive for someone to bring an austerity. The Conservatives tried. They did it in quite an evil way, but they tried. Could you imagine labor coming and saying, our problem right now is the interest on the national debt and the country's getting into more debt. What we need to do is now pay off this debt and so we're going to have to cut our spend by 25%, which means all these line items are going to take 240 billion out. Who's going to vote for them?

No one.

But if they come and say our Tories rubbish, you know, we're going to reduce tax and whatever they do, they cannot do that. You cannot sell that policy to the public. Which means whatever happens, we are now in what's known as a debt spiral. Every fiat currency, you know, dollars, pounds, tends to last about 90 years and they collapse. We're seeing them collapse around the world before us already we have Venezuela and Zimbabwe collapsed years ago, Lebanon collapsed in the last year and Turkey is collapsing. I think they've got like 90% inflation. We've hit this kind of 10% inflation. With this inflation, we have a growing wealth divide. So eventually they cannot get off the drug, which is the money printer. So we have now a spiraling problem that we cannot get out of. It's impossible because either you pay off the debt, you can default. If you default, you won't be able to borrow. You can print your way out of it, which means you essentially you'll crash the pound, which Liz trusted that and we saw what happened there. So what happens is it's a death by a thousand cuts. We're going to have a slow death spiral of our currency. Hence why I'm into Bitcoin.

Well, I want to get to Bitcoin. I want to talk about the money system a bit more because I fundamentally agree with everything you said there. And you know, people talk about fiat as the ultimate Ponzi scheme. In a way, fiat currency is almost like one of the Most amazing inventions ever.

What we've created with the government is a. They are vultures. They are rent seeking vultures who extract capital from the productive parts of society. Look, and I've got no issue with tax. I mean, I pay tax and I think we should pay tax and I like the fact that we have an.

Nhs, but it has to be fair and equitable.

It does.

And it has to go in the right places.

Yes, but we don't. What we have is stupid people extracting value from the productive people in society with no recourse. With no recourse.

Who've never run a business.

Never run a business. And very few people understand it because very few people know what is really going on.

And they won't teach you in school.

They won't teach you where you should learn it, they won't teach you in school. When people like you and me talk about it, people think we're conspiracy theorists. It's just like we need to do a better job at educating. Like when I say we fuck the government, they're not going to do it. It's up to people like you or I now to get this message broad and wide. We know that we can't trust the media anymore because it's not, it's basically corporate media. But generally speaking, the corporate media doesn't do much. There's a real lack of investigative journalism. People like you or I, who have. People who listen to us have a duty to not be captured by audience, to focus on telling people the reality of what's going on in the world. I think that's a duty we have because we are in a, we are in a financial debt spiral. If the debt's not paid off, the debt's getting bigger. And if the debt's getting bigger, it's going to drive more inflation, which is going to have a widening gap in society. And what, actually, what happens if you, if the gap gets too wide in society? You have revolution and those are bloody and dangerous and people die. You know, let's just be, let's just be very honest about that. I was out in Chile during the riots and the protests there. People, people protest and people die. You know, we've seen that all across the world and we should. The reason I am a bitcoin and I'm a fan of bitcoin, because for me it is a, it is a peaceful revolution. It is a way to educate the people around money, educate the people around government and peacefully protest. Because I'm not picking up a pitchfork, I'm not Picking up a gun. I am sending a transaction to you. I'm doing a financial exchange with no intermediary. And that to me is a peaceful revolution.

So who controls the world's money?

Oh, that's a good question. Well, it depends which money we're talking about. Nobody controls Bitcoin and that's part of the world's money. But generally speaking, fiat currencies, fiat currencies, well, they tend to be controlled by a combination of government and central banks. That tends to be it. The problem is as I don't think many people go in there thinking, haha, I'm going to be evil. The incentive structure exists. So evil things happen like the incentive structure is. And if you think about it, the political cycle is four years, four to five years, that is short term. The damage that's caused by the relentless printing of money or borrowing of money, it goes beyond that cycle. The problems we experience right now started in 2008. The recovery from 2008 when interest rates went down to zero and we had massive borrowing there. These things take years and decades to play out. But the political cycle does not allow you, does not allow the politicians the chance to challenge this because they will not get voted in. So it's the incentive structure that is screwed. By the way, I'm used to asking questions, I'm used to being a guest. Most of the things I'm saying now, I'm just repeating things other smart people have told me.

Yeah, well, I agree with virtually all of them. I don't think in our money discussion you've said anything I disagree with. I have the same opinion. I talk about this a lot because I really feel like if you can understand how the system works, it gives you a bit of an advantage. Because, for example, if you understand the way fiat currency works, well, don't keep too much of it simple really, because then your money's not going to be eroded by inflation or whatever. I know the conspiracy theorists love to talk about the great Ponzi scheme of fiat currency, but.

The government running the fiat system is a Ponzi scheme. It is, yeah.

The fiat system is a pretty amazing invention in some ways, isn't it?

Yeah, well, perhaps it's, I mean, again, this something will know better than me. Perhaps it's the central bank's involvement makes it a Ponzi scheme or when it becomes a debt spiral. Look, fiat money exists and existed for a reason and we need it. And it's done a lot for the world. You, you couldn't have got here without fiat Money because you needed to buy the car, buy the equipment, buy the petrol. Yeah. It is the corruption of the fiat money system by central banks where you have eight or 10 guys in a room pulling levers to try and balance an economy with no idea the long tail effects of that. That is the problem with that and the government's ability to influence central banks or to borrow endless money from central banks to run whatever deficit they want. That's the two problems with the fiat system. It's the lack of rules. Like you said, they should just have the same rules as us. My view is if a government is going to run a deficit, then that should trigger a national election. As should Liz Trust, ie.

It's a penalty, a potential penalty.

As should Liz Truss standing down have triggered a general election because we now have an unelected psychopath as a leader. I miss traditional conservative policies.

That is some proper capitalism, which we don't have right now.

Which we don't have now. But we essentially have a system which benefits the elites within the system. Again, I'm going to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but we've built a system which allows the largest banks to fuck up and be bailed out and for people, large institutions and funds to have access to cheap capital to swallow up the assets. We don't have a traditional conservative policy anymore. We don't have roll your sleeves up and work hard. We don't have. What we have is a government that is just increasing, increasing in size cannot operate responsible economic policies. And we have a widening wealth gap. We have people like untold numbers of people relying on food banks. We now have. Was it heat Banks people go to stay warm. I mean, this is the United Kingdom. We were a successful first world. We were. Well, we still are a successful first world. Our GDP is, is high enough that we should be able to support the poorest in our country. We waste so much. How much money did we waste on Covid on PP and that Track and.

Trace app as well? I mean, if you're a company and you run your own business, you're not spending 20 billion on an app, are you? You're trying to get it for 100 grand.

Yeah, unless your mate's running a company that's building the app.

Oh, there you go.

And you know what? The only interesting thing about that? They suddenly found 32 billion for that. It's a bit like when Liz Truss crashed the economy. They suddenly were able to borrow billions to buy up the guilds. Okay, what if they suddenly found 40 billion to build football pitches around the country for kids to play football. Why can't they just suddenly find that? What is the reason they can find 40 billion all of a sudden to protect the bond market? It just appears they've just got suddenly got it. They can suddenly find $38 billion for track and trace. They can't find 10%.

This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your page. Pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot. Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the pension gold investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships and when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invest in things that I invest in too. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com.

Pay rise for nurses. They can't find 40 billion for football pitches, they can't find money for mental health care. But they can find they can protect the bond market.

Why?

Because they can find money whenever they want.

But why are they not putting into those places?

You said because they don't care. They just. These people do not give a shit. But we have allowed these rent seeking politicians to extract everything from the productive people. So it has that compound effect is that you now can't allocate that capital into productive ways. Just say, just say tomorrow we were able to get rid of 50% of government and your tax was able to go down to 25%. What are you going to do with.

That other hire more stuff? Yeah. Build products and services, invest, spend money in marketing all go back into the system.

Yeah.

You grow the economy.

You are a good allocator of capital. And you know what's great about the market is that what happens if your.

Allocation'S bad, you get penalized and you have to start again and skill up again.

And you learn a good lesson. Yeah.

And you make money if you do.

Well, what happens when the government makes a mistake with their allocation of capital?

They hide it, they lie about it, they spin about it, and nothing.

They tax us more. You know, when they come up with these stupid policies, let's retrain people in this area and such. And like, four people get trained and you hear about they spent 100 million on this thing. They are terrible allocators, capital. And the reason they're terrible allocators of capital is they haven't gone out there and earned any capital. You're saying to these people, you know, inexperienced people, they're taking money from someone successful like you, who's built a business, has gone through those painful journeys. Learn how to train staff, learn about, you know, building a work culture, learn about sales, learn about, like, everything you've learned. You're saying, I'm going to take your capital and I'm going to allocate it better than you. We know that's bullshit, but that's what happens. But what we are, we're stuck in this position where everyone thinks this party is going to be best for our country. Oh, they're not so good in what? Let's go to this party.

Well, surely having just two options is not good, is it?

Well, I mean, we have more options here, which is a release on the pressure valve, which they don't have in the us which is even worse.

But really, we have two options here, don't we? Really?

No. We now have a third option, which is Bitcoin, and I keep coming back for that.

We've got a section on that.

But that is a third option. I now know I don't have to vote. I don't care. I know my vote has no impact at all now. It has zero impact. And I also do not want to vote for what I believe is an idiot. Whether it is Keir Star.

Did you earlier refer to a psychopath as Rishi?

Yeah, Rishi. I think he. I think he's evil and I think he's a psychopath.

What do you mean by that?

Well, like, firstly, I saw him. You see that video of him in the back of his car when he didn't wear a seatbelt? He was, like, literally talking to us like with fucking five year olds. Like we're going to be doing this for the economy, we're going to be creating jobs. He sounds like he's talking to primary school children. It's like why are you talking to me like this? I'm an adult, I fucking pay you a wage. Why are you talking, why are you patronizing me? That to me is not someone who I think instills any faith in the power government. Secondly, he's absolutely a massive proponent supporter of CBDCs which is dystopian Chinese future which is control surveillance state which is.

I funded by CBDC Central bank digital currency.

Yeah, Central bank digital. So anyone listening to. At the moment we kind of had. Even our money is kind of decentralized in that I have cash, I can give you cash. And it's kind of out of the reach of the government. We gradually move into digital money which means every transaction is being tracked. And anyone, just so you know, anyone listening, every single transaction you do on your card is being tracked. Every single one. But still that runs through the banking system which is separate from the government. A CBDC would be. You would have an account with the bank of England. I know they meant to be independent of government. Yeah but what that means is, is.

For those that were listening a double hand raise. Just questions that.

Well that. Yeah but what that means is, is that you can have your money stopped at any point. If you fall out of favor again, this is going to sound conspiracy theory so I'm going to go down the conspiracy theory but. And then I'm going to give someone reality. At any point the government can turn around to you or a group of people and go, we've stopped your access to money. You have no access to money now. Now imagine wake up tomorrow and your only wallet was your CBDC wallet. And the government paused you. Okay? The immediate effect is I can't buy groceries, I can't eat. The medium term effect is I can't pay my mortgage, I get evicted from my home. The long term effect is I cannot function in society without money. Now our government, they're meant to serve us as constituents. We vote them in and they're meant to serve us. When we move to a system of CBDCs, we are now slaves of the government. And that's not me, a conspiracy theorist. We can see this in China. China is a surveillance state. China has a cbdc. China has a social, a credit score system. If you do not, if you criticize the government, they can switch you off from the banking System. They can stop you buying train tickets, accessing transport. We can see the future. You know, sci fi writers are very good at, sorry, film writers, very good at predicting the future. CBTCs are a dystopian nightmare from the future it will be sold to us as a benefit.

That's just what are the benefits will get sold.

It gets old. You know, it's easier for us to manage inflation. We can distribute money to people, people who need it. Whatever shitty stupid reason they come up with. It is dystopian future nightmare Richie soon that supports that. Therefore to me, he's the enemy, he's evil. And I reject everything about him.

Wow. So why is Bitcoin the solution to government then?

Oh God.

The thing you've been wanting to talk about.

So there's Bitcoin will say the same. Bitcoin fixes this. I'm not saying it fixes everything. But in a world where we've got an ever decreasing amount of freedoms, an ever growing surveillance state, an ever growing watchful eye, or Bitcoin is the one thing they cannot control it. It is a decentralized money system. Now if I want to send money to you via my bank, I can do it, but I know that transaction is being tracked by the government and they can also stop it. Perfect example. If I go to the bank. Well, if you go to the bank today and you say I'd like to withdraw 5,000 pound cash, what's going to happen?

Load of checks and probably get rejected and asked a load of questions and money laundering excuse.

Yeah, okay, yeah, they want to know every time, every time I withdraw cash, by the way, I always say it's for drugs and hookers just to fuck with them. But they always, they always do that. They want to know.

It's like, but it's your money.

It's. That's. It's a complete invasion of privacy. Right? Yeah. This is where the world we exist in now, this complete invasion of privacy. Privacy is one of the fundamental pillars of democracy. If you cannot privately hold opinions and privately vote, and you cannot privately operate within society, what you have is coercion within politics. So we're lucky we live in the uk, right? It is the rabbit hole you go down when you learn about what money is, how it works and what a function democracy should be. And by the way, it's not every bitcoiner, some of them are libertarians or some of them anarchists, believe we should have no state. But the rabbit hole of information, it sends you down and things you learn are More important than the buying of the bitcoin itself.

This recent budget should warn you that your pension is not safe and secure and they're coming for your inheritance. Do you even know how much is in your pension or where your pension is invested? Add to this the recent inheritance tax grab on your pensions and the risk of a market crash. You probably didn't know this and I didn't until recently, but physical gold can be added to your pension pot Gold is inheritance tax free and has grown 700% in the last 20 years. You probably know from my content I'm investing heavily in silver and gold and that's why I've partnered with direct bullion. Myself and Nigel Farage are brand ambassadors and direct bullion can help you with gold to protect and grow your pension. I buy my gold and silver from direct bullion and I don't earn any money on any purchases of gold or silver if you buy direct from direct bullion. So if you go to robmore.directbullion.com you can get a great price on your silver and gold and you can get the Pension Gold Investing guide completely for free. As you know, I don't do many strategic partnerships. I'm always, when I do, I do them with people who are credible, who've been doing it a long time, who invest in things that I invest into. And gold and silver's going wild. I'm investing heavily in gold and silver and I recommend you check out robmore.directbullion.com.

And I understand you also think it's the best form of money.

I do.

Talked about it as a rebellion against totalitarian, authoritarian globalism to stick all the words in. But you also think it's the best form of money.

Yeah. Because you can be anywhere in the world. Okay, so I'll give you another example. When I went out to Japan and did an interview and I hired a local cameraman, I could not find a way to connect my bank account to his to send him money. I could not send him over PayPal. There was blocks. He sent me a bitcoin address and he had the money in 10 minutes. Okay. That was done. Transaction done. I, on the Lightning Network can send, I can send Bitcoin to anyone in the world instantly. And it settles instantly. There is no friction. There's no rent seeker in the middle.

Okay.

There is no surveillance in the middle. I am allowed to voluntarily interact with anyone and share and send value to them in the world at any point. Okay. That to me is a brilliant form of money. The Second reason it's brilliant money is it changes the incentive model at the moment. What happens if you save money in the bank?

They lend it out.

What happens to your money? Like what physically happens to the value of the money you keep in the bank?

Well, it goes down.

It's a melting ice cube. You have £100 in there. Next year its purchasing pound might be £90 the year after it might be 85 the year after that. It's a melting ice cube. The reason it's a melting ice cube is because they debase it constantly. Now, bitcoin, you cannot debase. It is volatile. We can come to that and we can talk about that, but it cannot be debased. There is only 21 million because it is kind of essentially deflationary, some people argue, isn't it makes you consider your purchases. So the incentive model for our money in the bank right now is to spend it right. If I had a million pounds in the bank, I'd be an idiot to leave it in there. I need to at least find an investment where it's going to get 10% return every year or I need to spend it and enjoy myself. I need to get value from it because the value is decreasing. If you look at the bitcoin price chart, right, one guarantee is every four years it goes up in value. Pretty much every four years it goes up in value. So Laszlo who bought the bitcoin, he bought the pizza for 10,000 bitcoin years ago. Now, no shit, if I'd have just kept that, that would be worth hundreds of millions. I have bought things with bitcoin where in the future I'm like, shit, that would be worth now.

If it keeps going up, does that not incentivize to store it? Not it as an exchange mechanism?

No, I still spend it, but I'm more considered about my purchase rather than my money in the bank. Now I'm like, where do I spend it? Now I've got to spend it. If I don't spend it, loses value, I become more responsible. I'm like, okay, where should I spend it? Should. Do I need that? Do I need that car? You know, do I need. Do I need to buy anything? What will that be worth in the future? And that also then flips the system that you don't have. You maybe have less companies like TK Max. Not TK Maxx. What's that? H and M companies like H and M who produce absolute dogshit clothes. So anyone can go and buy something for a five or a tenner. They're produced out in places like Vietnam. They exploit the workers there and that fast fashion industry. As to pollution, we have this world of buy, buy, buy, keep fucking buying, don't save any money. That is because we have a system that says, spend the money. You need to spend the money. My dad's day was no, you save money. You save for the future. You save for a rainy day. We now spend, spend, spend. Because of the incentives, Bitcoin has flipped that. It's gone back to being responsible. It is a system that cannot be corrupted. You cannot change the bitcoin protocol. You cannot, you cannot influence it. Every 10 minutes, whatever you do, another block will be created with the transactions in it. And that what that does is you go from a system where the current fiat money system, there's a few people at the top that control it and they decide what happens to everyone else. This is different. You get to voluntarily interact with it and decide what you get from it without any perverse external influence. And to me, that's just. That's the best form of money.

So surely then the government are absolutely going to do everything that they can. And when I say the government, let's assume it's one government like some people say we're moving towards. Surely it's the antithesis of everything that they want to be out of control.

I think it depends what you stand for as a politician. If you go out to Texas, which is essentially freedom country, Senator Cruz or Governor Abbott out there, they absolutely support bitcoin because they support freedom and they know bitcoin is a freedom technology. We don't really have that culture of caring about freedom like Texans or even Republicans do in us but we do have some people that understand this. But we are a western liberal democracy. If we as a country believe that bitcoin is good and we educate that bitcoin is good, we can overthrow a government or remove a government that bans it. And this is why it's so important to educate people what bitcoin is like. Dismiss the fud, explain to people what it does, why you should care about it, and because we as a democracy can protect this, but it's up to us as a people to protect this.

Do you think then there could be a future where there are multiple currencies and there isn't just one? Well, there is multiple currencies now, but they're essentially controlled by central banks. And essentially at the moment, the US Dollar is the reserve one. So do you think there's a future where there's a decentralized current system, currency system.

We do Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin becomes the. It's not because it's only one. Decentralized. Isn't just one.

You mean a decentralized set of currencies? Yeah, I mean, look, because I used to.

Sorry to jump in, but I used to think that's not really realistic, is it? To have a set of decentralized ones. But before we had money, we had barter. So we had multiple decentralized systems.

And we have that now. I mean, you can see. Okay.

Do we really, though?

No, we do. So I'll give you two examples. If you went to Cambodia. No. Okay. When you go to Cambodia, that's a big win. Well, I can't remember what their local currency is, but when you're there in the capital, they want dollars because they know the local currency is shit. Okay. I can't remember what it is. I know it's the dong in Vietnam, but I think I. Because I'm quite juvenile. That's why I remember that. But, but they want. They want dollars. And when they want dollars, they look and they expect it. And if it's got a tear, they don't want it. They want crisp, pristine dollars. Why do you think they want those dollars?

Because it's the reserve currency of the world.

Yes. Because they know their local currency. They trust it and it's melting away. When you go to. I've been to Venezuela. Venezuela operates with five currencies. They have the Bolivar, which is the worst currency in the world. They have the dollar. They have the Colombian peso, they have Bitcoin and they have the petro. Forget the petro. When you go there, nobody wants the Bolivar. They only use it because they have to, because the Maduro government forces them to. Nobody wants that currency. They want dollars or they want Colombian peso or they want Bitcoin because they know it's better form of money. They naturally know this. You at no point in your life in this country have ever thought, I need anything apart from the pound. Right. Because it kind of works. Inflation is insidious.

Well, I kind of do. Now. I want minimum pound and maximum asset.

Well, there you go. You've learned that. But like, generally Speaking, you know, 2, 3% inflation, it's insidious. But. But you can usually outperform it. And you get by. Argentina, multiple currency collapses. Probably 50% inflation. Now, whatever. I don't know. I'm just saying, I guess high. They want dollars. So if you're in a country where the money shit, you Naturally want the best form of money. Once you've got the best form of money, you don't need anything else. Well, once people have bitcoin and they can trust it, it preserves their value. Why do they need anything else? They might be sold that a new currency will make them more money. But that's a speculative infl investment. Once a currency has proven itself as the best, you do not need another currency. So other people might try and create them. They create them all the time. We call them shitcoins.

Have you got any money in shitcoins? Have you ever gone into shitcoins?

Oh, yeah, I did at the very start. I was like, I thought this was a technological revolution. I thought we'd have all these blockchains and all these solving problems. It's just a myth. What we had is we had a money problem and bitcoin solved it. And no other shitcoin has done a better job because they're not as decentralized. They have centralized gatekeepers and just a whole bunch of reasons. Bitcoin is like. It was like had an immaculate conception, right? Came out of nowhere. Now, if someone does create something better, fine, but they just haven't. Some Monero holders would say that's better.

Yeah.

Anyone who's got Ethereum is absolute crap. Dogecoin is a joke.

Are you one of these people that thinks there's bitcoin and then there's everything else?

Yeah, yeah.

There's a line between. You can't say all cryptos are like bitcoin and all bitcoins like other cryptos. It's bitcoin and everything else.

Bitcoin, not crypto, Bitcoin, not blockchain. Anyone who talks about blockchain is a snake oil salesman.

Like blockchain experts, but maybe there are some blockchain experts on there.

Yeah, they are, but they're snakehall salesmen. Because the blockchain is just one part of the technologies that makes bitcoin work alongside proof of work, alongside the difficulty adjustment. It's just a component, okay? It's a marketing term. If you say you're a blockchain expert, you are a snake oil salesman. You are trying to sell something that doesn't matter. A blockchain selling solves one thing, solves one problem, and that is the double spending. Historically, when people have tried to create money, digital money, decentralized, one of the problems, they run into double spending problem that. I have this digital money, I could send it to you, but I also send it to Harry. Well, how do we know who got it? The blockchain is a timestamped sequential set of transactions that proves who has what money. And that's all a blockchain. That's all a blockchain has done this shit databases. They're really slow, they're inefficient. That's all it does. So now we have that, we have this ledger. We don't need any other blockchains and it solve any other problem. Like, you know when you say, like we would use. We're going to track tomatoes on the blockchain for authenticity. We're going to have voting on the blockchain that doesn't produce any authenticity because there are, with those systems, there's externalities to the blockchain. You know, tracking tomatoes on the blockchain that where they came from, that's a thing that exists. All you're saying this is a database of records. The bitcoin exists within the blockchain. That's why it works. Right.

I'm interested in watches. Wouldn't it be good? It's just completely random.

What are you wearing?

I'm Vacheron at the moment.

How many watches you got?

Anywhere between 12 and 30 at any1 time.

Wow.

Yeah, I sometimes move them around and I probably shouldn't say how many I've got. You trade them sometimes?

Yeah, I collect trainers.

Right, Yeah. I saw your Nikes.

Yeah.

That you were wearing. You like high tops, do you?

No, I like dunks. About 400.

Yeah.

That's my thing. Do you know why I collect them? Because the money's. I know if I buy a pair of dunks, a limited, I attract them.

That's why I buy watches.

Yeah. In 10 years those pair of dunks will be worth more than they are.

That's why watches.

There you go.

And you get to enjoy them. So I love Lego. I got invested money into Lego because it goes down the right stuff. Goes down less than 10% a year.

I looked recently at the Death star, it was 750 quid.

Yeah. I just bought the atap. That's about 700 quid. The star Destroyer. Do you make them or leave them in the boxes? Well, I. I love playing LEGO with my kids and I.

You love playing with lego?

Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah. I love Lego. I love lego.

I bet you're making it and they're just watching tv.

No. Well, yeah. And I kind of, when I make it with them, I have to remember to let them do it. So if something's retired, I'll buy it in its investment.

Okay.

Or a better store of money, should we say a decentralized store of money. So that has to stay in the box and be unopened. Even the seals, you just. Seals are there some Lego, I build it, but I keep the boxes, I keep all the wrappers, I keep everything. So then I could take it all apart and sell it for probably 80 to 90% of what I paid for it for. So, you know, watches for me is a free hobby because I love them. And if I buy the right ones that go up, Lego is essentially a free hobby. Money in the bank is depreciating liability.

So this is, I think it was Jeff Booth. He wrote a book called the Price of Tomorrow. It's all about inflation and deflationary technologies. And I'm pretty sure he said when the money isn't scarce, everything else is.

Right, yeah, that makes sense to me completely because I want everything but money right now. Yeah, I just bought a 1989911 Turbo.

Nice.

Yeah, 130 grand. Because I would. If I lose 10% a year on that Porsche, which I won't, that'll go up. That's less than money. So my money is better in an old car than it is in the bank.

Artwork, trainers, Bitcoin, Front row of the Knicks. Old classic cars. When the money isn't scarce, everything else is. If the money's scarce, then everything else isn't. Yeah, I hold bitcoin because it's scarce. I have very high conviction. I have no conviction on what my value of my bitcoin be tomorrow. It could be fucking anything. I have very high conviction. In 10 years time, everything I've got in bitcoin is going to be worth considering more than it is now because it is a scarce monetary asset. Okay? People in Venezuela dump the Bolivar as soon as they can and they get dollars because that money is shit. The same happened in Zimbabwe. The Lebanese pound, the Turkish lira. People get rid of those currencies because they're crap. They want something that holds value. Bitcoin is the best version of that, but it's very early. A lot of people don't trust it. They think it's weird. So it's volatile, but it's the best form of money.

This is one of its downsides, isn't it? Because, I mean, I see a lot of the bitcoin community and I almost see like they're almost like they're so evangelist they can't see the downside and they're betting everything on something that's what, 20 years old. Is it 20 years?

What is 13, 14 years old?

Okay, so 2009. Yeah. Actually not a lot of history behind it. And you said money for evolution every 90 odd years.

Yeah. Fiat currency, 90 years. Gold. 5,000 years. Is it 5,000 years? It's 5,000.

So are you saying Bitcoin could be the next 5,000 year currency?

Well, it can be the next infinite currency if it's the best. Until the.

Can anything really be infinite?

I mean, I say until. Until humans destroy themselves or.

That's definitely not infinite, is it?

The sun burns is what I'm saying.

Is 4 billion years.

You know, the reason it can be the permanent future currency is because it is decentralized so no one can corrupt it. Once it's the best form of money, everyone will want to use it.

Okay, yeah.

All the other currencies were kind of coerced or forced into using China. You have no choice what you use. Here we have a bit of freedom. You can go and buy other currencies and yada yada. I could pay you in bitcoin if I wanted to pay you. And I could probably convince you to take dollars. If I offer you 10% more, you know, you can go and exchange it. Yeah, it can be the. If it wins. We haven't won yet.

When you say win, like it gets.

What it becomes the dominant global either form of money or reserve currency. I think it ends up becoming the global reserve currency. Once it's done that, it's won.

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