I Turned The Trauma & Pain of My Daughters Death Into World Records & Overcoming Fear - Ashley Cain

If it hurts f? Cking good. If it's hard, brilliant. If it breaks me, it better f? Cking try hard.

Would you say you're a man on a mission?

I'm a disruptor. The comfortability factor scares me more than.

Being in chaos because our grandparents fought in wars. And what are we now doing fighting on social media?

This is the thing. My intensity comes from passion.

What is the biggest lie about masculinity?

It stopped life like that and lost my businesses, I lost my income. I lost the most important thing to me. I lost absolutely everything. The only reason that I didn't end up taking my life is because I thought it would be an absolute disgrace to take my life when my daughter didn't even have a chance to have one.

Are there positives in grief and loss?

It depends what you choose to do as a result of it. I think grief, I think trauma, I think pain. I think all of these things that hurt us can either make us or break us. The definitive factor is who you become at the other side of it. I think a lot of people like to use trauma or pain or. Or grief as an excuse. I think other people find their strength within it and find out who they want to become as a result of it. And I guess, you know, I've done a bit of both. I think in the very early stages, when I'm talking about early, I mean immediate, you know, I resorted to drinking. I felt like I was so sad and I was so upset and I was so consumed by the pain and the uncertainty of it. I don't think I still believed what happened to me happened to me that had no value for life anymore. But then I started to realize something. Started to realize what happened didn't actually happen to me, happened to my beautiful little girl. Me being a God fearing man, I believe in God. So if I believe in God, I believe in heaven. If I believe in heaven, then the purest form of what's been on this earth would be there. And that's my daughter. So I believe she can always see me. So had to start making a decision that I still wanted to be her father even though she wasn't with me here on earth. And for that reason I thought, I can't get out of bed in the morning. I can't live my life at the bottom of the bottle. I can't keep on wondering or thinking, why me? I've got to think what I want to do as a result of it. And that's continue to be a great father. That's continued to make her proud. That's continue that amazing legacy that she started. And it's using all of the things that she taught me through the most painful stages of her life that made me a better human being, that made me a better father to then become that person that I need to be as a result of it. Pain is a wonderful thing and I don't think I have many memories in my life that I choose to talk about that didn't come from pain. Happiness is a luxury. Freedom is a luxury. It's something that can make you content, it's something that can make you complacent and it's something that is very unique if you have it. Whereas there's one common thing on this planet which every single human being will encounter, will face and will have to deal with at some point in their life. It's pain, it's grief, it's trauma. And I think if you learn to rise at the other side of that, it's something that every single human being on this earth can utilize for their benefit. I kind of went, I probably spoke too much then on the question that you asked.

No, you didn't, you didn't. It's. I don't know how much you know about me, but I always let my guests say what they want to say, however they want to say it. So this is not about me, it's about however you feel comfortable. I'll sit here and listen. So I want to come back to you and your story. Yeah, I'm going to change up. What I was going to ask, I want to ask if you think part of society's problems right now is because one, we've been too comfortable for decades. I mean because our grandparents fought in wars and what we now doing fighting on social media. And two, is there this mass delusion that the purpose of life is happiness? And is everyone just like running away from their problems because they're just trying to be happy? What do you think society t wide about that?

I would strongly agree to a certain point. First and foremost, I don't think there's anything such as total happiness. It's impossible. There's so many things on a day to day basis every single week, every single month of your life, they're going to suck or punch you and hurt you. It's impossible to be completely happy all of the time. And also I think life would be boring if that was the case. I think we were created to just live in a world full of bliss and happiness, you know, because I don't believe there's any self worth forged in that space. I also think that suffering to a certain extent creates character. Character is what is required to not only survive but to strive in this world. And I just think a lot of people these days have too many outlets to be able to push away their responsibility or what they need to do because of what's happened to them. And so many people to listen to them and to enable that to be the case when the real reality is, you know. And I've been at the side of extreme failures, extreme traumas, extreme setbacks, extreme losses. And I understand that nobody's coming to save you. One thing that I always try and say to people is, yeah, I don't want to come across as a person that is disconnected from my emotions or that is too harsh because I understand how that can hurt people as well. The issue is I understand that people may have pain, I understand that people may have hardships, I understand that the world cannot be an easy place, but the only person that is going to get you out of that situation is you. And I always look at it in a certain sense where it's never about me anyway. You know, I love my mum, I love my dad, I love my siblings, I fucking love my kids, my two that I have here on earth and my daughter that I have in heaven. So quite frankly, it doesn't fucking matter what happens to me on a day to day basis. Doesn't matter how hard I have to fight, doesn't matter what I have to get through or climb over. I have to do it because I want to create an incredible life for every single person around me. And in turn I get my happiness, I get my contentment, I get my self worth. I get my happiness from seeing everyone around me happy through the struggle that I've gone through, you know, And I think society needs to understand that everyone's got their own issues, everyone's got their own problems. You're not unique, you've got to get through it, you've got to get round it, you've got to get over it. But you have to find the solution. You have to get up in the morning and it might sound quite psychotic or quite weird. When my life begins to get too comfortable, I like to implement something called voluntary suffering. Because if my day feels easy, I don't have any self worth. I feel very irritable, I feel very uncomfortable because I understand what I've had to do through certain stages of my life which is fundamentally made me a better person. So when I feel ease, I Feel stagnant or I feel like I'm regressing. So voluntary suffering sometimes is great for my character building, for me to feel that I'm worthy of standing in this place, and also to build the kind of person with the kind of resilience that's required to get to where I need to be. Because you know this more than anybody. When you want to succeed and when you want to build something, that journey isn't easy, but it's profound because you have to be a certain kind of person, develop certain kind of traits to get through it, to be who you need to be the other side. And that person you are the other side isn't a person that got to where he got to through ease, but he's person that can make the life of everyone around him a lot more easy.

Is that not a brutal way to live? To never really be able to enjoy anything because just we do enjoy it, right?

Or I enjoy it.

So you enjoy the suffering because.

Realistically, you know, when if something isn't threatening your life and it's not threatening my life, the problem is usually relatively trivial because there's always something that can solve it. So it's like, get resilient in problem solving. Get efficient in problem solving. Don't get too emotional in problem solving. Let's just solve the problem because it needs to be done. So I don't think it's harsh. I just think it's. It's a way of life, you know, I mean, you really care about somebody, you know, you can put your arm around them. That's cool. It's like, you know, my son falls over and graze his knee. You know, I want to know if he's okay. I want to put my arm around him to know that I support him. But he's got to get back up on his feet. It doesn't matter if he's 2 years old, he's got to get back up on his feet and he's got to run again. And that's the same view of talking to adults who are struggling with life. If you don't care about that person and you don't want them to do well and you don't have a vested interest, you can listen to them all day about their problems, but what are you going to do to get them into action, to solving them? And that's harsh. It's horrible, you know, but it's what's necessary.

So I'm sure there are people watching this who are like, yeah, but. Yeah, but my life's Hard. Yeah. But I've got big problems. Cause I think we all can get in our own head that our problems are harder or bigger. What would you say to them?

You can either fuel the fire to make them worse, or you can fuel the fire to make those problems easier, you know, for me. You know, Rob, I've. I've lost, you know, in the hundreds of thousands in terms of money.

I can help you with that, by the way. I'm pretty good with money.

We'll speak. There's a reason I came to this podcast.

Yeah.

It wasn't because I thought I was going to enjoy your company, You know. You know, the problems started in my life right from school, you know. You know, having to go to school in an area where there was nobody like me, you know, so I could start the journey from there. Like, I get really embarrassed talking about my problems. You know, the only problem, you know, I. I can't say I enjoy talking about is, is the biggest trauma I had in my life, which was related to my daughter, because she's also the person that I love the most in the world. She's profound. She's my inspiration. But I've had problems from the get go of my life. Yeah. And when I look back at my problems, I never see them as things that we. I wish didn't happen because I've always become stronger at the other side of my problems until obviously my daughter passed away. And I would do anything in my power, even now, to. To trade places or to stop that from happening. I guess my point is what I was saying. I've lost hundreds of thousands of pounds. You know, things like Covid. Like Covid was an incredibly hard situation for everybody. You know, it stopped life like that and it made you live a pattern of existence which nobody was used to. But, you know, my Covid, I found out that my daughter had a rare and aggressive form of cancer. From the minute I found out, I was in a hospital room for the next six months. You know, no friends, no family, no dates, no trips out, you know, to the shops, nothing. I was in a room with a person that I love the most in the whole world, who I would give my life for in a second. Watching her fight an illness that inevitably was going to take her life. Having to look at this little girl who was smiling at me, who didn't understand the severity or the consequence of the illness that she had. Watching her go through pain every single day, watching her cry every single day, watching every single treatment that was supposed to be making her better. Put her through even more hurt. And I had to make a decision in that time that I wasn't going to let her see me cry. I wasn't going to let her see my head down. She was going to see the happiest, the most energetic, the most profound form of fatherhood that I could give her. And in turn, by trying to do that for her, I end up having a period of time that will always be the best time of my life. You know, during that time, I gave my businesses. I couldn't. I couldn't think about finances, I couldn't think about businesses, I couldn't think of the equity that I had in there. All I knew is I couldn't do anything towards them. You know, getting home, getting told that, you know, there's nothing they can do for your daughter anymore and saying, you're doing end of life care at home, not knowing when she's going to pass away, not knowing how she's going to pass away, not knowing if she's going to be in a lot of pain as she passes away. You know, my hope, you know, changed, Rob, from like, I hoped that I could have a family with a child. That was what I dreamed of, you know, and had a family and I had a child. And then my daughter got cancer and I hoped that she would beat cancer. I dreamed that she'd beat cancer, I prayed that she'd beat cancer. And then when I was doing end of life care at home, Rob, I. I hoped that when she passes away, she'd pass away in peace in my arms. Imagine that becoming your hope. Reality had to kick in and that's all I could hope for. And she passed away peacefully in my arms. Right at that point, I lost my businesses, I lost my income. I lost the most important thing to me that I ever and will ever have. I end up losing my house, end up losing my car. I lost. I lost everything. I was in minus. I lost everything. I lost my will to be on this planet. I lost any form of recovering because how could I think about going to go and do work now? I'm going to step back into the world. I lost absolutely everything. And the only thing that remained with me in that time was I had a reason to get out of that situation. And that was the thought of her looking down on me every single day and who I was going to become. So I understand that people are going through a lot. I understand that people have problems and people have struggles. I don't understand that people look at me now and I get the Comments? Oh, it's all right for you. And I think, think I'm like, you don't know how it was for me. You had. You have no idea. The only reason that I didn't end up taking my life is because I thought it would be an absolute disgrace to take my life when my daughter didn't even have a chance to have one. That's the only reason I didn't. I knew that I was just going to have to endure this thing called life with the pain that I hold. And I'm so glad that I did, because in turn, I've become a better human being than I ever imagined. And for once in my life, I've actually started the route to maybe becoming proud of myself, because I've never been proud of myself ever. And now I think I've done all right. And that all came from struggle. You know, my decision making now is better. My heart is clearer. The person I want to be going forward is somebody that I think, hopefully people can aspire to be like, because it's so relatable to everybody. Through adversity, who do you become? Is there success at the other side of struggle? Is there power at the other side of pain? Can you strive? You know, after everything that you've been through, which may have impacted your life to a point that you thought that you didn't want to be here anymore? I think I've proved that. And I think, you know, hopefully to people that are watching this, there's never a mountain too high to climb if you can just realize what's the most important thing to you and don't be afraid of pursuing it.

So you came out the other side, you forced yourself out the other side to be a better person. Have you noticed? Are there any traits or decisions or moments where it's like people backslide down or rise up because what's the difference between you and someone else who went through something similar but is still drinking every day?

You know, I guess I can talk a little bit different now to how I'd usually, you know, try and put things, you know, but I can only talk from my perspective. I don't want to make comments on every single person in every single situation, but I can just look inwards at me. That's. That's the most honest reflection I can give you. When I don't show up, it's my weakness. When I do show up, it's my strength. You know, if I look at, you know, alcohol, like, I got to a point, Rob. Yeah, I was. I was drinking And I was drinking, and I was drinking, and then. And I was talking as if I was drinking because of what happened to me. Yeah. And then I had to break it down. And it made me feel ashamed because I thought, I'm effectively blaming my daughter's life and my daughter's passing on the fact that I'm ruining my life. That. That's not fair. She did nothing but make my life better. She did nothing but make me better as a human being. It's not what happened to my daughter that's causing me to drink. It's the fact that I. I'm not strong enough and not brave enough to do anything about it. And then when I. When I became strong enough and brave enough to do something about it was when I got enlightened to the situation. It's weakness. And when other things become more important than myself, I think it's so easy to let yourself down. You know, like, if you don't want to show up today, for you, it's quite easy. When you look down at your kids, like, and you. You have a different form of strength. Then when you look at the people that you're trying to help and support, you have a different kind of strength. So when I tapped into that, it was a reason to show up every single day. And then I understand that when I wasn't showing up, it's just because I wasn't ready to tackle the demon that was in front of me.

Can you ever fully recover from grief and loss? Like, have you recovered?

I wouldn't want to fully recover. Like, my. My grief is, you know, it's pain based on losing the person that I love. Like, I. I don't ever really want to get over that. I think grief, to me, is a really beautiful thing. You know, to be able to love somebody that much and to be able to feel that feeling is one of the reasons why this thing called life is so magnificent. So I never want to fully pass on that pain. I don't want to get rid of that pain. I want to get stronger around it. I want to embody that pain and use it to become a better person and to do as much as I possibly can while I'm here. You know, before. Before my pain and before my loss, I didn't think any of the things that I've achieved since would have been possible. And that's a really strange thing. It was through that pain, and it was through the courage and the strength and the ferocity that I forced at the other side of it. And being able to Utilize my anger that I started to be able to do things that I never once before thought was possible. So I never think it's about, you know, step. I always say, like, you don't move on from your pain. It's about the fact that you can move along with it and use it to make you a better person. So that's what I believe. I don't want to get over that. I just become stronger around it and I become better at managing it. It's management.

But what if you're already enough?

I guess that's down to the individual person, I guess. You know, it's like you. You've got more money than most people. Most people could go rob, that's enough.

That's not enough. Ain't enough to you. Yeah.

So.

So work to do.

So. So it's the same as when somebody asked me that question, what if I am enough? Like, do you know what the answer is? All my life, I've never been enough. All my life I've let myself down. All my life, I've never reached my potential. In all my life, I have made bad decisions. And for the last five years, I've become a person that I've always hoped that I could be. I'm on the way to being that person. So it's never enough for me. What entertains me and what gives me a purpose in life is always striving for more, Always striving to be better. Always moving on to the next challenge, Always proving to myself that I can. So for me, I will never, ever be enough. I will die never being enough. And that's okay because that's where I get my fulfillment in life. The saying that you always enough to me scares me more than never being enough. Yeah, the comfortability factor scares me more than being in chaos and having to survive. That's not where I like to sit. And I don't believe a lot of other people do. You know, being enough is saying you're enough. And looking at yourself in the mirror, feeling enough. It's just like. It's like a shield of comfortability. There is quite delusional to survive in this world, I think.

Yeah, it's like I can't even believe I said it because it's quite a wanky thing to say, you are enough. But, you know, there's. I'm picking up some consistent themes. Like, for example, you said you're never proud of yourself, but you've done so many things to be proud of.

You know, the one thing that I'm proud Of. I was talking about this the other day. It was really strange. You know, you could. You could look at, like, being a professional footballer. You could look again, you know, my doctorate. You could look at, like, becoming the first and only man in the history of the world. You could look at conquering the world's survival, endurance rates, you know, raising millions for charity, going to Bucking palace, producing your own documentary series, presenting your own documentary series which was the leading documentaries on BBC. The list could go. Being an author, like, the list could go on in all the stuff that I've done. But I don't really care because for me, it was never about the destination. It's about who I became in the journey. I love the journey. I'm the kind of person that you could offer me, like, so much money to do something, and if I wasn't interested, I'd be like, nah, Ash. But it's like £50,000 to do this. And I'm like, nah. Or you can ask me to work for six months for free on a project that I'm passionate about. And I'm like, yo, you can have every day of my week. That's what I'm about. The one thing that I would say that I'm proud about, Rob, is. And I'm not saying anything about counseling here. I think, you know, if. If counseling is good for you, it's good for you. But after losing my daughter, every person was telling me, you need to go counseling, you need to go counseling, you need to go counseling, you need to go counseling. And I just said, I need to follow my heart and it'll tell me the right thing to do. One thing, which is my star power, Rob, which many people wouldn't know. It's my heart. I'm actually a really good person. And I'm not saying that in a wanky way. I'm a really good person. My heart is my best quality. And I believe that if I'd follow my heart, it lead me to the right place. And it did. It led me to some really tough paths, some really hard roads, but it led me to the right place. And my proudest achievement is that I was ma. I managed to navigate my own grief, my own trauma, my own setbacks, my own pain into becoming and understanding it, into becoming the person I am now. So I'm not bothered about no finish lines or no, like, medals or no certificates. The one proud moment of my life is when everyone thought I couldn't. I could.

Would you say you're a man on a mission?

No doubt.

I mean, you've got that energy about you.

No doubt, 100%. I've got someone to be, and I've got places to go. You know, Is it really. One day, I was listening to. I was listening to, like, a. It's like a motivational cliff on Instagram, and it was Denzel Washington. And he was talking about, you know, the scariest place to be is, you know, on your deathbed, surrounded by all the ghosts of the things that you didn't achieve and the potential that you didn't reach, Right? And then I was on the way to my nan's house. Imagine. And I got to my nan's house, and it must have been the Commonwealth Games. It was on. And my nan said to me, she was like, oh, I wish I learned how to swim. And, like, it's the weirdest things that hit you the most, right? And it hit me like a ton of bricks. I just thought. And I started getting scared. You know, how people think about death and they get scared. That what she said scared me because I thought, you know, my nan is a truly incredible lady. You know, she turned 90 the other day, looked after me better than anybody could have looked after me. You know, true matriarch, old school, brilliant. And there's so many things when I look at my nan that she didn't do or hasn't done or will never be able to do. And I thought, if I'm sitting there when I'm, like, of an age where I cannot no longer learn a new skill or cannot go out there to do something that I wanted to do, that would be even scarier than death itself. So from that moment on, I just decided that every single thing that I wanted to do or had a dream about doing or something that turned me on, I would pursue it and I'd achieve it. Whether I kept on with it is a different story. But for me, it's never about that. It's about the challenge. I love a challenge, and I. I love conquering fears. I love stepping outside of my comfort zone. I love doing things that people don't think that I'd be able to do or people don't think a human being could do. And I like doing it. And I found a system in doing that.

Will you share the system in a bit? You tell us what it is?

Oh, it's not that profound. It's just like. It's just like, you just gotta go for it.

Okay.

And. And also, I don't. For me personally, I don't believe in this thing where you Know, people say, oh, if you've got a dream, keep it to yourself. Like, if I, I could think of the most.

Who says that?

A lot of people. A lot of people.

That sounds like a fear based statement to me. Of course I'm scared of people judging it. Surely you tell the whole world and then you're accountable.

Of course, this is the thing I could have, the most ridiculous thing that I could sit here and think of today when I talk to you and I'd say on this podcast and everyone's like, what the fuck are you doing?

All right. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But then I think, but that's how.

You put things into reality. Exactly.

Put it out into reality. Don't. And don't be afraid of it. Don't. The dream might be scary, it might be big. You know, people might judge you on it. Don't be afraid of it. Don't do combat that demon straight away. I'll just put it out there. Then. Every single day I work backwards from it till the point when you get there, you're like, well, I knew it was going to happen. I already, I already knew before I finished it. A lot of the time before I achieve something, I get bored of it. Because I already know. I already know that I'm on the money. Then, then when I cross the line or when I achieve it, I'm already bored. I'm already on to the next thing. I could cross the line, already be starting my next thing because I'm like, I knew this, this was going to happen. Because you know, if you want to achieve something in a lot of people, Rob. Yeah. I think I bet you hear it a lot of people, I want to do this, I would love to do that. Yeah. And then I just think, bullshit.

Yeah. If you really wanted to, you'd have already done it.

Well, you, it's not about already you've doing it, it's just about you. I look at your life, you've told me the patterns of your life, you told me your habits, you tell me what you do on a day to day basis and nothing in there factors in the thing that you want to do. And when I tell you to do the thing that you want to do, it's too hard or you haven't. You know, I remember when I was doing this, this last challenge. Rob. Yeah. You know, you got, you know, you got kids, you got businesses, you were in the foundation, you're in pre production for a show, flying abroad, wrecking. Yeah. And I'm training like three to Seven hours a day, six to seven days a week. I just had to sleep less. Yeah, you know, you're getting back from London after a whole year. Getting up at 4am to train before London, going to London, coming back and then taking my. In the winter, taking my boat out to a canal at o' clock at night to paddle till 6am in the morning, two hours sleep back up the next day to start the day. That's me wanting to do something, do you know what I mean? Choosing to sleep in my garden, in a tent rather than sleep in my house because I had to get used to the cold, had to get used to being uncomfortable. I had to get used to this being routine. Like I know what it's like to want to do something. I know what it's like to be out in the scene, you're nearly losing your life and then you have to get back in the next day and get back in the next day and get back in the next day. 79 days back to back, you know, paddling for 20 hours a day. Grizzly bears tracking you alongside. Like I know what it means to do something. So then I just think not everybody's meant to do something. I just got to the reality that not everybody is meant to be what they want to be. Not everybody's meant to do something. We have like a thing these days with social media where everybody can see like how green the landscape can be. So people go, I want to do that. You don't. You absolutely don't. You are probably not capable. And I like to throw that gauntlet down to people. I like to go, no, you don't. No, you can't. Not everybody's meant to. Because then you can see who fucking can. Because some people will go, you're fucking wrong. And then you see what people are made of. Because it takes, it takes. Like I was interested to come and meet you today. Yeah. Because I watch your videos and I love what you've built. Like you have a quality. Like I have many qualities that you don't have. But you have many qualities that I don't have. And there's certain things from you that I would love to learn in order to make my life better. Like you could help me improve my situation for my kids and my family. So I was willing to come here today. I wanted to come here today because it's an, it's an exceptional person. I'm sitting across, it's doing really well for themselves. I want to learn. So I won't about with that. So I just Like, I'm quite. Like I'm quite. I'm a townie, Rob. Yeah. Like I was brought up in a town. Yeah. I'm a townie. Yeah. I ain't gonna try.

I remember that.

I ain't gonna try and pretend to be anything else. Yeah. But one thing that I am is I go in. And when I go in, I'm all in. And then when I'm all in, I usually do what I set out to do because I'm relentless. Yeah. I make. I make up for what I lack in probably, you know, my brain or knowledge with just being relentless and pushing through with it.

So for quite a lot of people. Are you a bit too intense? Do people find you a bit too intense? Are you a bit much for some people?

Yeah.

I bet you love that, don't you?

Nah. Do you know what? Do you know why I don't? Yeah. Because, like, honestly, it's a very conscious thought. Yeah. Like, I literally make a conscious effort every single day to leave people better off after they've met me than before they met me. I'm the kind of guy that walks around the supermarket. Yeah. And I'm like, how you doing?

You're right.

Hey, I'm going to the kids. You know, I'm that kind of person. I'm a very interactive person because I believe in you. Receive back what you give. I believe that you can create a whole environment. You know, if I go on holiday to a nice family resort and it could be like, tempo, I could go. I could literally create 250 people to be having the best time of their life just through little actions throughout the day. I understand the power in that. I like to be light. I. I look at certain situations I've been in in my life and certain people that I've been around. Yeah. And I think of who I like being around and I'm like, if I can make a little bit of effort now to. In. To better someone else's day, that's what I want. So when I only have only have good intentions, I find it difficult to process why some people can't see it that way. And, you know, so I. I want to be liked, but I understand that my intensity comes from passion. And if I'm passionate about you, if I'm passionate about something, my intensity level just goes through the roof because I understand what needs to be done and I don't want to take my hand off you till what you need or what you want or what you believe in is in front of you.

And has anyone Ever tried to sort of take advantage of that?

Yeah, loads of people do. But that's life in it, you know, I, I, I just believe in, that's life. I, I'm so emotional and I have so much heart in the things that I believe that I need to. Yeah. But I just take my emotion out the other. I understand that people are going to use me. I understand that throughout my life I'm going to use people. As long as we can be mutual in it, that's fine. And if we're not, and I'm getting the piss taken out of me, I don't have any problem in just cutting that off and moving on to the next. It's completely fine. But I think a lot of people get too emotional about relationships. I always say, like in relationships, in friendships, in, you know, marriages, in, in anything that you have in business. Yeah. It's not about trying to preserve what you have. It's not about always working on how you can keep what you have and being scared at the eventuality that it could break up or that it could stop and losing yourself in that process. It's about being brave enough that if your boundaries are crossed, to be able to let go. And I'll be, I've become good in that, like, when I know that my intentions are good and when I know that my intentions are pure, and when I know who I am and where my heart is, I've got no problem that if it gets too far, just going, maybe we just step in different directions now.

Right now we have a banking crisis, a potential global recession. If you'd like to learn how to cash in on the crash and not just survive, but thrive in challenging times, I invite you to join us at the Money Maker Summit Live. The link is robmore Life Money. I'm subsidizing a small number of tickets from my Rob Moore five foundation, or for a very small upgrade fee, you can get special VIP tickets where you meet me personally, you'll get your book signed, there's a VIP dinner with six multi millionaires and bonus money mindset sessions, as well as the special three days on getting your tax bill down, your income streams up, my eight stages of building wealth, my formula for riches, and much more content at robmore Life Forward slash money. The agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link. Robmore live forward slash money. So I'm 47, I've been in business 20 years and at times I find myself hardened to things. So, you know, like, you get the calluses on your Hands from all the training. And sometimes I'm like, I've just become hard and cold because of everything I've had to defend. You know, we have a team of lawyers, we deal with big property projects. You just have it so it can be transactions. How do you still stay heart led and optimistic when people could be trying to you everywhere? Life can grind you down, you can become hard.

I think it's, I think it's tough because I think like everything in life, you can either go left or you can go right. It's about finding the balance. My biggest argument with myself on a day to day basis is that I'm too soft. I'm, I'm terrible at business because I'm too heart led all the time. So much so that I'd prefer to take less and give the other person more just to relinquish the problem. I'm that kind of person. And then I have this debate with myself every single day to be more shrewd, to be more of a shark, to be harder because it's hard to find that balance. And I'll give, I'll give you an example. Yeah. And hopefully this kind of explains it. I'm going to completely take it away from what you said, but it's. Hopefully it means something in the long run. After losing my daughter, all I had was pain and anger. So what I chose to do was put that into these incredible challenges that I'd done. But in a way that was easy because I woke up every single morning thinking about being a savage. I just thought, if it hurts, fucking good. If it's hard, fucking brilliant. If it breaks me, you better try hard, you know what I mean? And I was just ruthless and I was just relentless and I was just this machine, this juggernaut that goes in one direction. An unstoppable, immovable force of nature. And then I started to build parts of my life back, you know, where I, where, you know, I started, you know, going into business again, I started going into television again, I started working with brands again, I started going to all these different facets, right? And I thought I need to use my mind again. So the other side took a bit of an impact because when you're just like pushing and breaking yourself and pushing and breaking yourself and pushing and breaking yourself, it takes your bandwidth because your bandwidth, it just becomes on being numb to everything that hurts. So all of a sudden I've got to open my mind and then I'm trying to be like, you know, good at business, good at what I do. So then I'm using my mind for that. So then I've got these two different directions that I'm trying to spread myself over, which is very tough. Then not one child came into the mix, but two children came into the mix. And now I'm trying to be a good daddy. A daddy that's present, a daddy that wakes up to their kids in the morning, a daddy that tucks him in at night, a daddy that, you know, he's around them all the time. That, that, that third direction, it makes everything impossible. I can't be really tough, I can't be really loving and I can't be a shark all at once. So there's got to be a compromise and I have to battle myself every single day. Rob, because of my intensity, what you say, I know my intentions aren't bad, but because I'm very intense, I have to have this battle, like, am I too intense? Am I affecting other people because they say they want what I want, but then they can't match the level that I want to go at to achieve it. And then am I forcing things on them? Am I like not bullying them, but am I putting pressure on them because I'm ready to run through that wall right now. And it's about that house. So I was going to ask you that question today.

Yeah. So I don't pretend to have, you know, everything in life down and be perfect at everything. I don't spend all day, every day with my children. But I, I like the dad I am and I like how I treat them. And I think that the person I am, they like and respect as well as love. So I feel proud of that and I think having an amazing partner is really important. So, you know, my wife takes a lot more of the sort of day to day looking after the kids because she wants to, because that's her area of value. And she's like, there's your spear, there's your shield, off you go.

I love that.

And you know, and, and I feel, you know, I think when I first was with my wife and then sort of had my kids in the early days, I used to be a bit like all the school fees, the amex bills, you know. A friend of mine says to his wife, look, the credit card, no limit is a limit, not a target. Everyone's spending my money. I've got 100 odd staff here. Feel like everyone fucking spends my money. I look after everyone, I pay for everything all the time, everyone. And I did get to a point where I'm like fucking Hell, I'm doing all this and everyone's taking off me. And then I just had a moment where, I don't know, I get to do all this and everyone else is getting the benefit. So for me it's not just about time with your kids, it's the relationship you have with them. So therefore I can go out of the house with my spear and my shield knowing that it's okay, that I didn't have to, didn't get to tuck my kids in or wake them up in the morning. So that, that's one thing. The next thing in business, I am a people pleasing conflict avoider by nature of when I was young, I was the fattest kid in school. I was always trying to sort of avoid conflict by being friends with everyone, was friends with all the different groups just so I could be liked so that we won't call me a fat cunt and all the shit that they used to say. And you know, kids can be like, they would say that when you're 11. So I was always like, just everyone like Rob, you know, he's safe, you know, girls like him as a friend. Not, you know, like that because, you know, he's, he's fat. But so I developed these coping mechanisms. They are coping mechanisms. You know, avoiding conflict and being like means I'm not alone. People aren't hating on me. But then that is still me. But I learned that, okay, we're going to do a deal. We'll have a chat and we'll shake hands, but then we'll get the lawyers involved and lawyers can deal with all of that. And then if you're trying to push my boundary a bit, I'm going to find a really nice, articulate way to tell you that that's my boundary. I'm not going to lose my, I'm not going to be a child. I'm going to square up to you. Just going to let you know that, you know, I'm cool there but, but I'm not cool there. And that's hard for me is that people pleasing conflict avoider. So I learned conflict some. I know a lot of people in business who are ruining business because they're losing their all the time or they're acting like the boss. I've got a guy that works for me and he says, Rob, you have never told everyone to get the out of your office. You know, if I was the boss at least once a year, just because I could, I tell them to get the out my office. You know, because you obviously watch too Many TV shows like, you know, these American TV shows never shouted anyone in the office. Never lost my. With anyone in the office. Never brought a problem to the office. You know, I might be like on someone.

Yeah.

Like, you know, that's a deadline, you hit that deadline. But I've never brought my into the office once and, and again. I'm really proud of that. So I think you can be a nice person, heart led kind of naturally sort of conflict avoider. But you just find a really good way of articulating. They're like, nah, not, not beyond that. So these are just some of the things I've learned. I think, you know, if you're, if, if you like the person you're becoming, I think that's the start of, of everything. Because, because I notice when like people criticize me or there's loads of that they say about me on, online if, if I'm like, got pretty good self worth. None of that like the armor is so thick, it's like a rhino. But if I've failed myself and I've let myself down.

You become susceptible.

Well, yeah, but because they're right. Well, they're not right if it's defamation or if they're not speaking the truth. But sometimes those comments are right. Yeah, because, because, you know, so yeah, I just think, you know, I agree with you on working on yourself every day, but maybe have you thought about getting a business partner?

Yeah, I mean, I mean I've, I've got like a few different ones in the different.

Can you leave them to all the, that you.

Yeah, but I guess, I guess me, there's a lot of things that I like involving in. If I, if I like it, I like it. You know, I don't tend to do anything that I don't like. You know, so if I like it, I like it, then I have involvement in it. And, and I think the thing is as well, Rob. Yeah. Like I'd still say like I'm new to all of this stuff, so I'm still trying to learn. One thing about me is I'm very capable. I'm extremely capable. But like if you look at my life and all the different things I've done and all the different things I've been through, you'd be like out. Like for me to be here now is pretty cool. Like doing all this, I'm doing.

Yeah.

So I'm still trying to learn and I believe that this is just the beginning. I'm 35 years old. Yeah. So I believe that I've got a Long ass road in this to keep getting better and to keep progressing and to keep, you know, strengthening in my armory and my artillery and you know, my arsenal into like unbelievable levels. But, you know, I know that it's a work in progress and I'm just like, I'm trying to work very hard at it. I'm trying to be clever along the way. And I'm also trying to be humble, you know, in, in the things I achieve. And grateful, but not too grateful where I'm like, oh, it's fine now, just more grateful in like, oh, I'm glad that I'm here now onto the next step. But I agree what you said, you know, what with the fatherhood thing. I agree with what you said. I think it's really important. Yeah. Because I look back at my upbringing.

Yeah.

And like I never, you see my dad that much.

Yeah.

He was, he was doing his thing. My dad was a really tough man, a really hard man, a really respected man where we were. But I didn't see much of him. When I did see him, it could be like in a situation that I shouldn't have been in. Do you know what I mean? I bet you loved it. Like a bit of a mad situation. Like, you know, like I'd, you know, me and my mom would be like, dad's getting back, running upstairs like this. And then we'd be like, you know, I'll be trying to get on the toilet before I go to bed and next minute my dad's running in the bathroom and he's had half nose cut off and all this madness. Yeah, yeah. But he was a really good man. Like he, he, he loves his kids. He finds it, he found it really difficult to be able to express emotion. But I knew that he loved us and I knew that we always looked after. Yeah. My point being though, my dad was always the pinnacle of health. He was always fit, he was always strong, his appearance was always amazing. His work ethic. And my dad, I don't think has missed a day of work since he started working when he was 14 and now he's 64. Not miss a day. Yeah, he, he's not the kind of guy that, it's like dad, you know, you work for a company, you know, if you had like two weeks off, you know, you still get paid. No, he can't do it. So his work ethic was phenomenal. He worked two jobs, he worked three jobs. Yeah. He was very tidy, immaculate. Like he had standards. He always had standards. Standards. Yeah. And I'm like. And I look at it now and I'm like, I always strive to be better than him.

Wow.

I strive to be like him. I wanted to be. I wanted to be a physical specimen. I wanted to be a hard worker. I wanted to always look smart. Like my dad walked since 64, you'd think he was 40 years old, Max now. So I'm thinking, well, I wouldn't have got the same. I wouldn't have got the same qualities I've got now if he was just a bum sitting at home cuddling me all day.

Yeah.

He gave me a standard to live up to or to surpass.

Yeah.

And I think that's really important as a father. That's why, you know, I've set myself, you know, goals of like now going to the 2030 Winter Olympics. And I'm thinking, why just 2030? One at 2034, one at 2038. I want my kids to visually see greatness or what greatness looks like. I want my kids to see me in my peak, in my prime. So as well as looking after them and being present with them, they can see, you know, what a goal that they should be able to, you know, to, to attain. So I think that's important.

Yeah. So the, the thing I've found the hardest, I think as a parent is you love your kids and there's, there's a father, daughter, love that unless you've experienced it, you. It's just unique. I'm not saying it's better than a son. It's unique 100, as you know. But the way I see it is if you don't give your kids challenge, then the world's gonna have to do it. Yeah. So I think the thing I found hardest as a parent is okay, because my wife's very hands on, which is great, but I'm like, just let him go to school and he's not done his homework and let him get bollocked and then he'll find out, then he won't, you know, but she's there trying to help him. Bobby, do your homework. Bobby, do your homework. And so I think it's the balance of. Because I think sort of old school fathers, like our fathers and father's fathers, they were good, right? Son, get the fuck out. You know, you're 11, get the fuck out. And maybe a bit too much the other way at times. But that's another thing about sort of the guilt of not being with your kids all the time is that, you know, they have to sort their own out themselves. So my daughter had A couple of issues with not quite bullying, but nearly there. And of course I was like, right, I want, I'm going down the school. That's the worst thing you can do. You don't go down the school. You teach your daughter to go sort her problems out herself. And that's. Or your son, that, that's a completely different thing. So standing back and letting him, like you said, when you're, when your son falls over, all right, you want to go pick him up and hug him, but no, no, you're getting up first.

Well, what this is one thing I noticed is a really interesting thing. Like my mom, My mom's a really beautiful person. Really beautiful person. She. She just has this like, caring and nurturing kind of quality where, like, everybody's more important than her, you know, and all she's wanted to be is a grandmother. And, you know, losing Azalea really impacted my mom because her whole life was, you know, her, her dream and her goal was being a grandmother. Do you know what I mean? So now I've got my two boys. It's just like, that's it. And they absolutely love her. I mean, I mean, my oldest son is just like, it's her above anyone else, you know? I mean. Yeah, above anyone else. But the only, the only kind of like, caveat is. And the only issue is you see the behavior shift with that. So, you know, being a parent, like, it's so easy to like, be like, yo, you want chocolate, have chocolate. You want this, have this, this. But if, if he's with me at my house, zero problems. Doesn't cry, doesn't whinge, doesn't moan. It's not like we're doing fun things all the time. I just make him a part of like the day to day existence. Yes, daddy. No, daddy. Sorry, Daddy. Yeah, fall down. Oh, silly daddy. Cool. The moment he sees my mom try and tell him to do something, he just looks at her, as in like, no, grandma. You know, he. So I love the relationship. I love that he has that. But then I also look and I'm like, you know, like, fundamentally, like, sometimes it isn't about, like, catering for everything that they want. It's about providing an environment where they have, have like, boundaries, they have standards, they have like, things to uphold. And then sometimes it actually makes them happier because I think if he, if he could choose anyone to be with in the whole universe, he'd run to her every time over me and his mom. Yeah. But then when I look at him and he's like, whinging, a lot. And he's like, she wants us not gonna sit down. I'm like, is he happy or is he happy when he's happy when he's with me, just running around taking on the world. I don't know. Do you know what I mean?

Or maybe he needs both.

Yeah, both.

Yeah.

It's a good. Happy. It's a good balance.

Yeah. I think it's an absolute gift if a child has grandparents in their life, the best. And like, the. The grandparent relationship is also very unique. And, you know, I know my wife and I know many mums, they have a lot of guilt around. Oh, no, no. Babysitters or the modern ones are a bit more outsourcing parenting, which I don't think is good, but. But no, you want to get your. I think you want to get your kids with your grandparents as much as possible.

I mean, I was allowed to eat 16 chocolate bars a day. I mean, I'm advocate for being like, you got parents. You know what I mean? My grandma was like, yeah, the biggest enabler ever. But it was great.

One day they won't have them anymore. Yeah, 100 and they'll miss those days. Yeah. Yeah. But parenting is hard. And running a business and trying to be the best version of yourself and trying to be fit and strong. Because I'm 47, a bit older than you, so, you know, I don't maybe have the same sort of testosterone as you or. This is pretty good. You know, I try and keep up on my boxing all the time. I think it's really important, you know, if you've built some level of success, just keep investing back into yourself. So I've got two boxing coaches. I pay them good money. They come to my house at 7 in the morning. If one bails on me, the I phone the other one up. If it's raining, we go in the garage. If it's not raining, we do it on my drive. I don't need a fucking fancy boxing gym. Don't need a load of fucking, you know, a good pair of gloves and a good coach. So I pay for that. Pay. I always do courses and education. I'm reading books and listening to podcasts all the time. Invest in the people I hang around with. Really? This show, what, 10 years old? This show, 1300 odd episodes, billions of views with the clips as well. Billions. But the best thing about it is the people you meet, because you know, that's the asset. Yeah. So. Because when you get a good team around you, a good lawyer, good broker, good Babysitter, good coach, good mentor, everything else. And the, you know, I think that's the best reason to be rich. You know, I like fancy things, I've got lots of cars and all of that. But actually, the best reason to be rich is to get a load of good people around you. So you've, you've got a team of accountability there because not everyone is, you know, channeling hard pain. Like you, you know, some people have had a pretty easy upbringing and they haven't got that pain, and so things are just too easy. And that's where I think you need to get people your circle. What is it they say? If you don't have a circle, you have a cage. So the circle of people around you, holding you accountable as well, is it.

Holding you accountable or is it as well? Like, I mean, I guess success. Success is determined in a lot of different ways that I, you know, for me, I see successes as being able to do all the things I want to do freely. Yeah, so don't.

It takes a lot of money.

So, yeah, it takes money, but also, but also, like, you know, what you need to do is time. So all of those people around you as well, they, they help your time be as efficient as possible and they help your time be your time more so than your time being everything else that you don't really want to be doing.

Yeah, they definitely save your time. Like brokers, finances, accountants, all of that. But also all sorts of accountability. Like, sometimes you don't want to train, but you're the easiest person to lie to, to yourself. I know you don't much, but a lot of people are, well, you know, oh, they tell me you should rest a bit more. I'll just take a day off today. But if you, if you paid your coach up front, booked him in and he's in the car on the way, you have to show up.

Financial accountability is something that I don't really have and I need to have more, you know, that. I, I guess, I guess it's, it's through not being educated in that. And, you know, when I left school, I became a professional footballer and then that was it. Like, I actually got accepted into a really good economics college. I Left school with 14 GCSes, you know, done for a year early, got really good grades.

Yeah.

But then, you know, when you go to football, they were like, no, you can't go to that college. You've got to do a BTEC diploma in sport. So left school, went to being a footballer, and then my career ended early. You know, I had five reconstructive surgeries and then I was done. Yeah. But then I had no, no further education, no work experience, absolutely nothing. So I've gone into this world then, you know, so I think I could definitely manage my money. I could definitely, you know, put my money into better things that bring me more money back. But I guess I'm. I'm still learning that part. I've had so many things to navigate in my life that, you know, that part has always been just a bit of a byproduct because one thing I've always been good at is making it. I just don't know, it's just the next step to then making that. That good money into great money.

Yeah.

Into long money.

To me, it's outrageous that there's talent like you in this country and we're not teaching people this stuff like at school, you should be taught this stuff, how to invest your money for the long term. But they don't that difficult, do they?

Don't want, I mean, I don't want to get into politics, but yeah, that's one thing I do know. Yeah.

But that's part of my mission is to help as many people get on the planet, get better financial knowledge. So there's plenty of people like you with raw talent and great at something. And great at. And like you said, making the money or greater sport or got some genius, but having a genius and then making money for the long term so you can give back and live a wealthy life, that, that's, that's a unicorn because it's just not taught. I know. You know, so many people come to me, famous people, many who want to be. Remain anonymous because they're that famous. Like huge names going, rob, we can't speak out and say what you say online, but I can tell you that, you know, I made 400 million and lost it all, or, you know, I don't really know what to do with my money. I make all this money and I don't know what to do with it. What should I do with it? Surely this kind. I know you didn't want to do politics, but surely this country would economically grow if we just taught everyone how to economically grow. Why should we hide it from everyone? You'd be a zillionaire by now if you were taught you got 14 GCSes a year early. You're smart and yet you don't know how to manage your money because you're not taught.

Exactly.

And your parents don't know because they don't know what they don't know.

But, but that, but that's ex. That's exactly it.

That's criminals.

That's exactly it. But, but the, the thing is, Rob, I used to make money in school. What I mean by that is, like, I used to make money while I was at school by hustling.

Yeah.

I've all. I've always. Not, like, if you just took everything away from me now, then like by next week I'd be like surviving, doing something else. And, and, and I guess the most demotivating thing for me and what's took my spark is because, you know, there's, it's, it's like being an entrepreneur. Yeah. I've made. I mean, I can't say, I can't say I was at you and say a lot of money, but. Yeah, well, in comparison, I've made, you know, good, really good amounts of money. I've lost a lot of money, made good amounts of money, lost a lot of money. And it becomes demotivating for me because it's never been able to make the money. It's never been. You could give me 20 different things and I'll make, I'll make them, make money. It's about. I hit a ceiling with, with where I'll go from there.

Why should, why should anyone be deprived this knowledge?

Yeah. Did that come, you know, you said that, you know, you were fighting school and people used to die, you know, target you and that. Do you think.

Do you think myself so hard.

But do you think a part of that, you know, do you think a part of who you are now came as a result of that? Yeah, you know, you know, the reading, the studying that, the navigating the system, you know, to how you were going to best survive. You're like. It was all survival. Yeah, yeah. Do you think, you think a lot of that was that?

Yeah. I remember, like, I used to phone my mum and cry to her every weekend, but then when she handed the phone over to dad, I'd sort myself out and not. Not let him hear me cry. So I don't think he really knew how because they sent me to boarding school. I hated it, felt so lonely. And I managed to. I begged my mum and I got my mum to work on my dad because the only person that could convince my dad anything was my mum. And they moved me to a new school and it was when you went from junior to senior. And so because I was at private schools, you had nine weeks holiday. So I was like, I'm gonna be. I'M gonna spend nine weeks eating nothing and, like, training every day. And then I'm gonna go to this new school as a skinny kid, not a fat kid. And I did. I ate 300 calories every three days. That's all I ate. And, like, my dad's like, what the. This is really not healthy. But I was like, yeah, but I'm losing weight. I'm feeling good anyway, so going to the new school and the skinny kid, not the fat kid. Girls. Girls actually like me now. This. Fucking hell. I lost all the way and none of the emotional baggage just all still there. I'm like. I think I'm like you in the sense that if someone says to me, oh, you can't do that, I'm like, thank you. Because now I'm going to go and do it, and I'm going to do it even better than you said that I could do it. And the more they tell me I can't. You know, I used to be like, oh, you. I'm gonna show you. But I just don't say anything now because it's wasted energy.

Yeah, just like, you use it, internalize it.

Yeah. And you're just like, if I want to do it. And you said, I can't. That's just fuel for me.

Yeah.

But, yeah, that comes from trying to prove to people that I'm worthy of being a friend of theirs when I was the fat kid. So, yeah, it's just. Of course it's all there. And, you know, I. I like you. I'm not super pushy on people getting therapy, but I have had some therapy more as like, a. An experiment to see if it's useful. I'll do a marketing course to see if I can learn some tips on marketing. I'll do a finance course and also get a couple of therapists and see if they can teach. I'm not going to, like, overthink it. Just like, you know, they might be able to teach me some tips. One of the therapists said to me, rob, there's a child and an adult in every person. And that really helped me because the child is still there. And for years, I hated that. I hated who I was. And my therapist would be like, you know, what would you say to, you know, your. If you. The child were there now, what would you say to him? And I'd say, well, I'd just be embarrassed. I'd be ashamed. And she was like, but he's just a young, vulnerable boy. If it was another boy, that wasn't your. You. If it was your son, how would you feel? I'd be like, I'd love him if it was my son, but I hated him because it was me. So she taught me the difference between the child and the adult. And so now, you know, let's say you upset me or you said something that cut or whatever. I would feel the child in me, but I'd also be able to be an adult.

Yeah.

And just, you know, smile and say thank you for your feedback and get my head down and get to work. So, yeah, I lost all the weight and didn't lose any of the baggage, but I learned that that's just. That's the child in me. And, you know, one thing that sort of upsets me because I love helping entrepreneurs. And what happens is entrepreneurship is hard, and you have a challenge, and then you just crack. And when you crack and you lose your. That's when your child comes out and you act like a child. We've all done it. I try and do it behind closed doors or around someone that, you know, I'm safe with. I don't want the world to see that.

Yeah.

But I think that's when we ruin our lives in those 10 seconds, you know, when we lose our. So imagine if you. You just, like, could just hold that in that. You know, that shame and that vulnerability and that feeling exposed and weak and not knowing what to do. Because there's. There's a lot. Especially men. There's a lot of men that are just, like, lashing out in those little moments and ruining their life.

Yeah. 100. That's what I've got good at doing it, because I think, you know, for me, like, since being a kid, I just had to fight all the time. All the time. You know, my school was like, you know, I'll be, like, 13, and, like, there'd be. There'd be kids that left school, pull up in cars with, like, hammers and Tasers, man, you like. So I was just sort of fighting all the time, and then you don't. I used to go home to my nan and granddads, and I didn't want to tell my nan and granddad, but. And then I had this figure of a man as my dad, and I see what he used to go through. Through. And I was like, I don't even really want to tell my dad. Like, this is a problem number one day. Like, this is my dad's reaction. Somebody who had left school. Someone's probably about 19 years old, and I'm, like, 14. Rang my house phone to tell me that tomorrow I was getting it. And I was kind of a bit like, nervy on the phone. My dad said, who was that? And I went, oh, it's this guy. He said this and what? I said, are you gonna knock him out then? But that didn't go like, oh, yeah, I'll be there at school the next day. You're gonna lock him out then? And I'm saying it then. I'm like, I've got to go to school like this the next day.

But he told him, you're going to knock it out.

Yeah.

By the way, if you're ever going to knock anyone out, don't tell them you're going to knock them out.

Yeah.

It's like, say nothing, then knock them out.

But then I got to the point where, like, I began getting a bit bigger. I began to, like, have my own network. And then, you know, and. And I've had the times in my life where I've been chaotic, I've been destructive, I've done all these things. And now I'm kind of like, I understand that I have a lot of anger in me, I have a lot of fire in me. I have a lot of ferocity in me. And. And the best way that I can go about my life is managing that and turning it into something that's positive.

Yeah.

Because, like, my chaos ain't a few nasty words. My chaos could be like, you know, part of this building coming down. We just like, you know, I'll. I'll go to the Yukon for a couple of weeks kayaking, get rid of that, and I'll come back all zoned out.

What is the biggest lie about masculinity?

Well, you know, what it is. When I think of what it is to be a man, I always think of the warrior in the garden. I think it's being competent. I think it's being capable and having that. That hinge where you are a potential ferocious monster, but you choose to live in this garden and prune your flowers. You know, I think the biggest lie about masculinity is that it's a threat and a danger to society. I think it's a steward to society. I think it helps police society. I think it helps keep society safe and intact. And I think, you know, people who are anti masculine use masculinity to weaponize an agenda. When I don't think that's the case, I actually feel quite offended a lot of the time because for me, I would say that I'm a masculine man and me Being a masculine man means that I'm capable of extreme violence, but never ever use it. It means that I'm a provider. It means I'm a protector. It means that when I'm in an environment, I hope that it's a safer environment than if I wasn't in it. I think that my masculinity brings love, it brings care, it brings joy, it brings inspiration, it brings aspiration, it brings a value of. It brings a value of worth and trust and this accommodating value. So I just feel offended when people try and, you know, slander masculinity and say that it's a threat. Because nothing but good things come from my values of masculinity. So that's what I would say is the biggest lie, you know, because any kind of dangerous people out there who are men aren't the masculine ones that I see.

What are they then?

What are they?

Yeah, if they're not the masculine ones, what are they?

Well, it also depends on what the person is saying about masculinity I'm seeing, you know, But I don't see as a masculine man as a danger to society. Like, I don't see as a danger society. I think that masculine men are in somewhat protectors of society. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Do you think society's become a bit emasculated recently? Yeah, I think that's part of problems in society. Like.

Well, I think. I think sometimes.

Do we miss the old school strong leaders?

I think we miss the old school strong leaders. But I think it's a lot of it is down to societal push as well. You know, there's a lot of things that, you know, saying, you know, I don't like the fact of there could be an incident involving a man. So then it's, men are dangerous and it's like, well, you know, not all men are dangerous, really. You know, we see certain incidents, what percentage of men, you know, and then people look for men to help in those situations. People look for men to stand up in those situations. So then it's not all men are bad. And especially the masculine men that you're looking to for help in these situations or to steward these situations aren't bad people, are they? So I'll just think of, like, I think there's a danger in this aspect when people are targeting masculinity in a way that they're targeting. Targeting it, which is causing more of a divide than it is a unity in being out of both, you know, living like this nice coexistence.

So you save lives, but who saves yours?

I guess the. The good people around me that have to put up with me. I don't, you know, physically necessarily need my life saving, but I guess having a great family around me and great people around me that just enable me to be me, speak when I have problems, celebrate when things go well, get around me, when maybe I'm not feeling the best is all that I need. So, yeah, I think it's my family and the good people around me. I think, you know, when you're on this mission sometimes, and, you know, you're the one that feels like you're going through the bad, and you're the one that feels like you're going through the war, and you feel like you're taking all these hits, you forget how much or how important a great, supportive network behind you really is, because maybe it's just that you need to turn back for a second and just say, I'm struggling today. And so I'll go. You'll be all right, but you can go power forward. You know, I. I also. I always remember. Yeah. That there was one time. Yeah. And I was. I was training for it. It might have been the Yukon, where I had to kite from Canada to Alaska, a thousand miles through the Arctic Circle and supported. Yeah. And had to do a lot of sea paddling. I was going in the sea in the winter when. I'm saying it was freezing, Rob. Yeah. And we're just getting chucked out. We're getting choked out because we have. We have to try and roll the boats and whatever. And I remember just not being able to get it because I wasn't a kayaker at the time. And I remember just feeling, like, so exhausted and so tired and. And as well, I thought, you know, if I go out there, I'm probably going to lose my life because I. I feel like I haven't got it yet. I don't know if I've got what it takes. I don't know if. If I'm strong enough at the minute. And then we're just calling my mom on the way back. And I was just hoping that my mom was going to say, it's all right. It's all right, darling. You don't have to do it. And my mom went, come on, come on. She went, this is nothing compared to what you've been through before. She's like, you have conquered way tougher things than this. You've been through way more than this. You can do it.

Yeah.

And she said, a Lot more than that. It was one of the most inspirational speeches I'd ever heard. But my mom has never said an inspirational speech ever. Never been hard on me, ever. She never gave me tough love. She's always enabled me to be like, it's okay. And she gave me that talk, right? And then after that, I just realized I can do absolutely anything because she believed in me. I don't think that I need saving anymore, Rob. I think what helps me keep going is people believing in me, the people that I love and I care about. And that belief saves me. That belief that when I'm weak, that when I'm feeling weak or maybe when I'm not up to it, the people that I love and care about believe that I can be better, believe that I can always achieve it, believe I can keep moving forward, believe that I'm strong enough, that I'm talented enough, that my heart is big enough, that I have enough will, enough relentlessness to pursue it. And I think that love and support that I've had is really being a massive helping hand. I've got an incredible family, me, you know, and that saves me also. One huge thing that saves me is that North Star, which is my daughter. You know, like, I understand the struggles that she had. I understand everything that she went through. I understand how dark and how bleak their life can be. And every time when I feel like that things are too much, I revert back to those times, and I understand that I can get through it. So I've got a lot of incredible things that save me, a lot of profound things that save me. But I think it all comes from love in the end. Because, look, because love for me, Robbie, and not in. Not in a real cheesy way. People say to me, like, oh, you know, you're. You're so brave. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not. People go, you're strong. I'm not. People go, you're so resilient. And I'm not. I'm not. Like, I just really love her. I really love my boys. I really love my family. So then I know what lengths I'll go to in order to preserve all of this. And that's what my quality is. It's not to do with being brave or relentless. It's just that, like, when I choose to do the things I do, I choose to do them for a reason. Everything I do is for a reason. And because I know how strongly I feel about my reason, there's no task that's too difficult to pursue for that reason for that purpose.

What one thing do you think most people are not grateful for? Enough.

The moment. On a level. Again, I don't even want to sound cheesy, but, like, every day is like Christmas day, if you decide to see it that way, and if you decide to pursue your day that way. You know, when I wake up in the morning, I look and I'm, you know, do I want a bigger house? Yeah. But am I really happy? How do I feel? When I got the house that I got, I was like, ah, this is absolutely amazing. You know, then I'll go into my. I could go into one or two rooms. I could go into my kids rooms, and they're either awake waiting for me to get them up or they're still snoring, but they're. They're happy, they're healthy. That's amazing. You know, I go to my phone and there's missed calls and messages of opportunities that I've not yet pursued. There's opportunity, there's money there, there's success there, there's greatness there. All for me to. To decide when to make it all happen. Good relationships around me, good people that I love, that are still alive, that I'm still blessed with their presence every single day. Like, in that present moment, there is no fucking problems. There is no threat of danger. There is no stress. So I think the moment is one thing that we're not grateful for enough. Because I know what it's like not to be safe. I know that it's what it's like to have my life at risk. I know what it's like to hold the person that I love the most, my child, as she takes her last breaths and leaves this world, enjoys the next. So when none of this is happening and you look around and everything that you wanted is within your touching distance. Fuck me. The moment's a beautiful thing. You know, as I sit here with you now. Yeah. Why would I not be grateful for this moment? I've got no stress in this moment. I'm sat next to a really successful person that wanted to invite me down to speak on his podcast. I'm going to learn something from this moment. It's an opportunity for me to. To grow my audience and my followers. And hopefully some things that I say will impact people to make better decisions in their lives. It's a great time. Do you know what I mean? I'm gonna go on the way home and work on my businesses and even things. I see things, Robbie. Even when things aren't good or Something bad is looming over me. I'm like, if I'll have this many hours in a day to make that a better situation. So it's great because we could be in situations in life where there's all that we can do about the situation that we're in, or we've got all around us to be grateful for. But when so many people in this country and so many people in this world do have a beautiful situation right in front of them, what's not to be grateful for? And when you've got opportunities to preserve that situation or to progress that situation, that's a beautiful thing. But nothing in 99 of the moments that we have in a day are immediate danger to us or immediate stress to us, then. So enjoy it.

You know when you're freezing in the kayak and you've been there for hours and you know you've got hours to go and days to go and weeks and months to go, what conversation are you having with yourself in your head?

It's horrible. You know, Joe, the worst part is. You know the worst part? It's when you just start. Yeah. Because it's always. Yeah. Things go through my head. Yeah. And I think you're that geared up. You train that hard, and you're that geared up by the time that you start that you're like, I just need to get this done now. I just need to get this finished.

Yeah.

You're not like, it's not something that you think. It's not like a holiday. We think, oh, oh, my God, I'm gonna go away for seven days. I'm gonna enjoy every single moment. You're like, I need to get this done.

Yeah.

And the problem is, once you just push off, you're thinking, oh, my God. There's not one moment of this seven days or 79 days, which is going to be pleasurable. It's going to be horrible. And when is it going to end? Yeah. And then the strangest thing happens for me, and it's the whole reason why I do it. When it gets to the point where it feels too tough or too cold or too dangerous or that I'm not going to recover my boat that time, or I'm too tired, too worn out, that's when I have the connection with my daughter, when I'm fearing for my life, when I'm fearing for my existence, when I think that maybe I'm too weak to carry on, that's when I connect with that. And that's what this whole journey was for. So through the Most pain, and through the most suffering and through the toughest times, I get this beautiful glimpse of my little girl. And then I get the most peace I've ever had. It's like. It's like hitting like 10 on the rich scale. It's calm. It's like. And then I'm like. I'm right where I'm supposed to be.

Right.

It's getting over all of that part. And then I'm right where I need to be. And then that's beautiful. And they're the moments that stay with me. That's why, like, I. It's so profound. Life. Yeah. Because I think of all the moments that I look back to and, like, all the moments that I talk about, all the moments that I laugh about, all the moments that are worth something to me usually come in the times of the most struggle. But then you look back, you're like, remember that? That's amazing. And I think that's what makes it worth it. Yeah. You know, people always said, oh, you people always. You say to me, though, like, oh, well, you know, don't you think you're doing these things as a bit of an escape? And I was like, what am I escaping from? They were saying, like, I'm doing these things to escape from my pain. Yeah. And I was like, well, what. From the foundation that I set up, the campaign that I just created, the, you know, six or seven days a week of, like, three to seven hours a day that I train with my daughter in my mind to get me through it. The actual event that is all for my daughter to raise money for the illness that took her away. That puts me in a position where I've got nothing but her to get me through it. That kind of running away. I don't really get how that runs away from anything. I've just got something that I need to do as a result of the pain that I feel, and this is the way that I choose to channel it. And my journey becomes. For those moments, those, like, it's. It's just like. I don't know if you get, like, it as a man. Yeah. You know, you go through, like, monotonous days. Yeah. Like, you know, nearly every. You're not looking for, like. Like, you know, you don't need, like, your flowers every day, like, for you to turn up. Yeah. But, like, every now and again, I don't know if you feel like it, that just one moment happens and you're like, yeah, I'm cool for another six months now. You know what I mean? It could just be like. And it could just happen like for 10 seconds and it's that long. Is it elixir? Elixir that hits you? Yeah. And they're the moments that I get. And it comes just on the flip side of like being too close to the edge. And then it feels great. And then I'm like, that's it cool for another year now.

Does that kind of become an addiction?

Yeah, yeah, it does. It's a dangerous place to be, right. And I always say that my kids save me for different reasons, you know, like my daughter's like 100 save me. Like me. She saved me in so many different facets in my life in terms of actually saving my life to saving the person that I could have been, you know, before. And now I'm choosing to be a better person. And my sons, in a way, have saved me because I didn't know how far that this thing was gonna go. Because, like, you know, like, you start off, you think, I'm gonna run a marathon. And then you're like, yeah, I've run 100 miles. And you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do thousands. And yeah, I'm gonna do mountain seas, I'm gonna get my parachute license, jump out of planes. And that's kind of like you feel quite embarrassed. I, I ran the length of the uk, cycled it, kayaked it. I felt really embarrassed to finish.

Why?

Because I, just. Because I, because it didn't quantify to enough for me. I felt embarrassed. I was like, are we celebrating this? Like, is. Are people going to come to this fight embarrassed? And also, I crossed the line every single time. And she ain't there waiting for me. Like, it's, it's. Yeah, it's hard. And sometimes, Rob, because you know that you're not going to quit, you know that you're gonna do it. So it's just like, I know that I'm not gonna quit, so I know that it's a formality. That's why the end, the finish line can't be what I'm going for. Because if it was, that's what I'm going for. I've already done it before I've even started. Do you know what I'm saying? So it got to a point, it gets to a point where it is addictive and not addicted. Like, oh, you're feeling for it and you need it, but it's, it's where your self worth comes from. All I need to do is look in a mirror and I can answer my own questions that became addictive. But then what I had to do, Rob, is I feel like what I was trying to say is it was going to get to a point where, like. And I still might do it. I was gonna, you know, kite from New York to London and become the first man to kayak the Atlantic. Yeah. And I thought I needed to do it. And at the minute, because I've got two young boys, I feel like it could be a bit too dangerous because. Not because I'm scared of dying, because I'm not. Because I know where I'm gonna go more so that I feel like my kids need a dad and there's still too much to do yet. And then what happened was miraculous. My sons, yeah, like, gave me something that I didn't think I'd get again. They gave me, like. Like I've got, like, genuine, like just this freedom in. In love and happiness again. I look at them and not. My world's a better place. Yeah. I never thought I could access that again. I thought my heart was too broken. I didn't think I could have kids again. Then they've done this for me. And then because they've injected this happiness, this wholesomeness, this love in my heart, it's brought more joy to my life. And I'm like, you know what? Yeah. I thought maybe, maybe I need to change a little bit direction because I think it's important enough to evolve. You know, when something stops working or something. When something's a means to an end or when you need to go in a different direction, I believe it's strong. You have to be strong enough to be able to do that. So then I decided a month ago that the Ultraman was the last challenge for the time being that I'm gonna do like that and I'm gonna push for the 2030 Winter Olympics. You know, after I lost my daughter, I qualified for Team gb. And I just felt it wasn't the right thing for me to do. I had too much pain. I needed to be isolated. I needed to be like a lone wolf that. That sorts his out through long, grueling and harsh environments, you know? And then now, because I've got a bit more zest, a bit more happiness, a bit more love. I'm not. I love to push for that dream to get to the 2030 Winter Olympics for so many different reasons. I would love my sons to see their daddy in Olympic Games. I would love to show people what is possible at the other side of pain and the other side of trauma and I'll be 40 years old at that point. I want to show people and men that life isn't over when you get over 35, which a lot of men do, or I can't run anymore. Yeah, you can.

You can.

You can be an Olympian. And one of the main things I want to do is. Ravi. Yeah. I played Go the Distance on my daughter's day. It's a song from Hercules. Then it's about Hercules's journey to Mount Olympus. Yeah. Where he receives his heroes. Welcome. So I wanted to take my daughter on a journey to Mount Olympus, to the Olympic Games, you know, so I've decided to take that path, which has been really difficult to get my head around, because going from long, grueling days of where you just break your body and break your body even more and break it again after. Now it's about reversing the body clock, you know, becoming more explosive, becoming faster, becoming more powerful. Not exhausting your body, but preserving it so it can perform again to its highest capacity the next day. And that's been a difficult thing to get my head around, but it's been a really relieving and healing process because I'm like, you know what? Yeah. I haven't been consumed by this, you know, And I think it's another incredible journey to go on for myself, for my family, and for the foundation as well.

Going forward, what's your biggest mistake or failure?

I think, you know, what I learned, I learned from. I learned from two occasions in my life. Yeah. So rather than it be like a really dramatic story, I'll just talk about two learning points in my life. So when I made my debut in football, this is a big life lesson. I made my debut in football, and when I played right, I always used to cut him from the right and hit the ball on the outside of my boot. Yeah. And I just perfected the technique. It was an orthodox, and it wouldn't be a way that you would coach anybody, but it always used to work for me, hence why I always played an age group up. Two age groups up, hence why I was with the first team at, you know, 16, 17. Right. It obviously works well. And I remember before I played, right. We'd done a shooting practice with the first team, and the guy was telling me, strike through the ball. Don't. Don't hit the ball like that. Strike through it. And I went. I played my debut, and I got the Starman Award on my debut. But I went through on this chance. He was nil. Nil. If I'd have scored, I'd have relegated Charlton. Yeah. And my granddad put a bet on. He put a bet on me to come on and score. The winner ran really crazy, right? And I went through and like these. When I played for the reserves, when I played for the youth team, they were like 9 out of 10, 10 out of 10. I'd score these ones. It was easy. And as I was about to shoot, that thing went through my head. Don't hit the ball like that. Strike through it. And I thought. And it was like a million things went through my head at once. And I was like, I'm with the first team. I should do what the first team guy says. And I struck through it and I pulled it wide. And I never forget that moment. I don't. I don't wish I was still playing football. I don't think, oh, my God, I wish I was a footballer. I missed out on this life. I don't think about the game anymore. I just enjoy watching it. But that moment sticks in my head. And that's because if I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna fail my way and no one else's way. Because I look back at the opportunity and it doesn't haunt me that I missed. It haunts me that something that I knew in my heart of hearts was the right thing to do, I chose not to because someone else told me, and I've never been able to let it go. So if I'm going to fail, I'm going to fail my way, right? Or if I'm going to succeed, I'm going to succeed my way. Do you know what I mean? So that was one big thing that I learned also. It was when I went on sas who Dares Wins? It was. It was after I lost my daughter, so it was after Covid. So I hadn't been around people. I hadn't really gone back out into society, you know? And I'm doing this show, and I wanted to do the show because I wanted to see. I knew who I wanted to be, I think, a little bit by that point. And I thought it was a great opportunity to see if I'm strong enough to be that person. And I think going on there, I was the standout contestant. And it was quite good because I think because of who I was and because of my story, it became the only episode where nobody gave up their armband and the DS were having to just basically get rid of people because people were empowered by their story. And I should have won. But I went into interrogation and it was A long interrogation. It was like 12 to 14 hours. We're sitting there blindfolded, we're getting dunked in water. We're in these stress positions. You're getting played in your ears, Babies crying, pigs getting slaughtered, chainsaws. And I got to a point and I was really calm. I wasn't actually stressed out. I wasn't like, I can't do it. I got to a point and I was like, I think I've been through enough. I don't need any more punishment. You know, I've proved I can do everything. And I took my armband off. It was only probably another five minutes. Yeah. And then the whole thing would have been over. Then there was just a running challenge to see who wins. Now, because I took my armband off, they gave all the other four people the win because there was no standout person between them. Because I should have won. Yeah. And I just look back at it and I'm like, was I really content in that moment? Or did I have a moment of weakness? Did I think that it got too much? And did I rely on the fact that I'd already been through enough to not have to deal with this? And that was one of the biggest lessons that I had, and it was that I will never, ever fucking quit in my life again. Ever. I will see how pain is temporary, but the price or the weight of quitting and regret will last with you forever. It haunts me. That one moment haunts me so much so that you know, I will die trying. Now. Don't quit. It was something that was on a plate to me, Rob. I should have. I should have won. I've been outstanding the whole way through. And a moment there which didn't, didn't really require extreme physical fitness or this tenacious attitude. It just was a bit of perseverance, a bit of going through trauma. What I did was I let my form or get in the way. I, I, it wasn't me. It was. I've been through enough. I don't really need to hear this anymore. And I took my armband off. Never again. I would always see it out. I have to see out going forward. And that's one thing I would say to anybody. Yeah, like, pain, you know, is temporary. It is. That moment is temporary. You just need a bit of resilience. You need a bit of endurance. Life. Life is a battle of endurance. It's not a marathon. It's an ultra marathon. It's the biggest ultra you ever running your life. But you need that endurance. You need that perseverance. You need that resilience because soon that pain will pass. And then the person you become, the other side of it, will live with you forever. That decision will live with you forever. Make it the right one.

This show is called Disruptors. It's taken me 10 years and 1300 episodes to get you on this show. What does the word disruptive mean?

You've only wanted me for the last week.

This has been. It's been months in the. The last week. Yeah. What does disruptive mean to you?

I'd like to think I'm a disruptor. You know, I think this world can, you know, put people into boxes and it can put people into categories and it can tell you the way that you should live your life and what's best for you. But I always believe in stepping outside of that box. I believe that I'm gonna do what I want to do. I believe I'm gonna. I'm gonna do what I see fits best. And I believe that I don't want to follow the same path as everyone else has followed if I know what I believe to be a better one. So I just think that in a world that tries to put you in a box, don't believe in that cage. Break out of that cage and follow your own path and you'll be surprised at what you can achieve and who you can be at the other side of those walls. You have to be a disruptor in life. You're a disruptor, I'm a disruptor. And I think if more people, you know, stepped outside of that cage and believed that there was life outside of it, there'd be more people that are disruptors and the world would be a very stronger and better place.

Amen. This has been great also.

Yeah, we have a £1 challenge on with the Azalea foundation at the minute.

Okay. Yeah, go for it. Yeah.

You know, childhood cancer receives less than 3% of cancer research funding, yet childhood cancer is the biggest, number one killer of our children in the uk. So we've set up a challenge which is a one pound challenge. And that's if, you know, if God. If a percentage of our followers can donate £1, it would make an incredible life changing and life saving impact for our children because they don't get enough support for new treatments and new research. So it's a very easy one click process to donate. And if people watching this want to give one pound to help children fight cancer, it'd be very much appreciated. I know the children, families that appreciate it.

Do you have the link.

It's on the Azalea Foundation's Instagram.

So we'll put it in the comments. Yeah, in the description.

That'd be amazing.

Yeah, of course. And I really respect what you do.

I'm really grateful for your time, man.

Thank you.

Hopefully I can steal some more of it after this.

Yeah, sure.

Show me the money.

Where are you like, like where are you most active on social media? Where should people follow you if they don't?

I think Instagram. Instagram Mr. Ashley Kane, you know, the same handle for tick tock, Snapchat. Mr. Ashley Kane 1. But my main profile is Instagram and you'll see a lot of what I do, who I am and you'll be able to read or hear or view my heart on there, which is the most important point.

Awesome. Really appreciate you coming in. Well, thank you very much.

Cheers. Sam.