Katie Hopkins on The Death of Free Speech in Britain

12,000 people a year get arrested in the UK for voicing their opinions on social media. And this is more than any other country on the planet. What do you think about that? I mean, I know, but, like, it seems like the UK is the worst place to share your opinion.

And the UK is so litigious. So my case law, that was made especially for me in the case where I called someone on Twitter, I accused someone of doing something they didn't do. I was wrong. I was in the wrong.

And that should, you know, there should be consequences.

There should be consequences for that.

Give people material loss.

Right, exactly. And. And all of us, I would assume, would be on the same page, regardless. If you accuse someone of doing something they didn't do, that could cause material loss. And if you don't make that right, well, clearly there's a civil case there. As it turned out, in my case, trying to make it right, trying to make amends to deleting, apologizing, offering to meet wasn't enough. And there was no need to prove consequence. So serious harm, it was sufficient to perceive that you were seriously harmed. So the person I accused of doing something that I was wrong about, what.

Did you accuse him of doing?

Defacing a war memorial. I muddled two people up. They're both weirdos. But that's not the point. I was wrong. Yeah, because she perceived serious harm. My case that cost me my home was that became law in the uk. You don't have to prove any harm, you don't have to prove consequence. You can just say you was. You perceived you were harmful.

So I can say that your bow is upsetting me and causing me trauma now, and that's my perception.

That's enough. And you can bring the case and you can ask for 20k. And if I do what most people do, I pay you 20k because you don't want to end up like Katie. What happened to her one point, whatever it was. Well, anyway.

So seven figures. You lost.

Yeah. Wow. Because I, I.

Because you're stubborn.

I am really stubborn. I was offered to pay 5,000 in an initial phase. Is £5,000 to a refugees charity. And I wouldn't do it.

Wait a minute now, I know we've talked about this when we first met years ago, but we can't let that go. So you ended up losing more than a million pounds?

Much more.

But in the early stages of that case, you could have settled by donating five grand to a charity.

No. Oh, you've changed that.

Okay. Please forgive me for it was a Question, really? It wasn't a statement.

You've gone on BBC, you just changed what I say in real time. I'm watching you edit my words.

We were friends. You've just accused me of being.

We'll always be friends. Yeah. So, yeah, in the early phases with this person, I was offered £5,000 I could give her. She was still working at the Guardian at the time, so you can imagine how that would have gone. And I was at LBC and Daily Mail and she wanted five grand for a refugee charity and I would not pay it because I will not help fund illegals into my country. So it cost me over, but it cost me my home, over a million. £1.4 million because she perceived that she was serious harm, seriously harmed. And the law states that the damage is done at the time of publication. So on Twitter, if you retract and delete and apologize and offer to meet and whatever else, it's not enough. Damage is done at the time of publication.

So. So there's no point in it then.

So a slippery slope began then, which I tried to fight to maintain because everybody thought I was the biggest bitch in Britain. There was much jubilation of the felling of the cow. Whereas, of course, what's happened is it's been a slippery slope downwards now that we're criminalizing words and you're getting two years in prison for words. And this is why it's so important to make an early stand, to try to. We have to get back to the point in the UK where words can't be criminal. You should be able to seek.

But what if I incited violence? I think that was the accusation to Lucy Connolly, wasn't it? What if I start a war with my words?

Well, I think the bar for that would have to be incredibly high. And I think the problem is that the bar for that metric is very nebulous. It's very hard to get your arms around something. And if you can't measure something, then how do you put the bar anywhere? How does the Crown prosecution know if there's a case case to answer? And the answer is it was never done on a merit based metric anyway. It was Keir Starmer saying, lock em up. So it's a game. And the day you realize the law is not the law is not a happy day.

Yeah, because I'm so confused and maybe because there's a part of me that's naive, but I was in Costa Coffee and this has happened twice and someone comes in, they look homeless and they just literally Nick all the fucking sandwiches and drinks and they bugger off. And the people just stand there. And the first time it happened, I was like, well, why don't you do anything? We're told not to do anything and why would I? And anything under £200, that's theft, apparently, isn't a crime. Basically, it's not a crime. And what's the conviction rate of rape? I understand it's about 3% or something ridiculously low. And people are getting knifed. It feels like a lot in London. So we're not dealing with proper crime, but we have the highest rate of arrests in the world for voicing opinions. What the fuck is going on in the uk.

And it's sort of that whole metric of what's easy policing. And if you go to somewhere like you, I've spent quite a bit of time in Bradford, so if you go to Bradford, it is stark. There's the Bradford that feels very Bradford, right? It's all made up of new British people. It's a dark and strange place. There's a lot of guys driving around in huge vehicles. They're the drug guys, everybody knows them. They operate out of the garages. There's a lot of garages that have never seen a mechanic or a car for any other reason. And there's a lot of other shops and everyone who lives around those parts knows the system and knows how it works. Up on the hill above Bradford is a nicer bit of Bradford. Nice houses, quite nice people. It's not about colour, it's just the sort of neighbourhood that happens to also be white police up there, speeding fines, parking fines, crimes against, you know, tippy typey crimes, they're all over it. Anytime you want to find a police officer, get up to that little bit on the hill where everyone's very nice and getting on with their lives. Police to death because it's easy policing, it's convenient policing. You get your metrics out of issuing a few speeding fines by sitting in your car jerking one up to some hideous, I don't know, car magazine. But down in the badlands, where real shit's going down, they don't. It's untouchable because it's inconvenient. It's the same when you look at the examples of these huge festering turds of rubbish dumps that have sprung up that are run by criminal gangs, right? Oh, so the Oxford one is going to get cleared up because it's in Oxford and all the nice people are in Oxford and they'll complain, but the one that's a festering turd of a dump wherever else isn't going to be touched. I think it's Wigan. It's like the convenient policing. It's so comfy and cozy to police Twitter. And I swear, they think they're so clever. These two women questioning me about my spouse. Comments. They honestly thought, like, it was a proper Cagney and lacy situation. Like lesbian police women with like super tight polyester clothing because it didn't fit properly, but they just thought they were butch, you know, like hand. Little tasers on the waist, the little cuffs here. They'd. Right. Can you tell us why? They just felt powerful, these sturdy little lesbian police officers. Like a. All I could do was sit there thinking, you know, you look like a cross between a prison officer and a swim coach. Like, bursting at the crutch, trying to concentrate on the fact that I'm supposed to be the bad guy. They seriously believe they're policing. They're not policing in any regard and. But it's just convenient. It's much harder to try and police rape. Much harder to police the. The dark lands where bad things happen. So, yeah, that's what's going on and it's why we do have to stick up for ourselves. I look forward to someone trying to steal from a shop in front of me. I'd go down fighting for that.

Would you?

Yeah. 100. You can't say what you're going to do until you do it. So until you've done it, you can't really say that. But I really feel like I would get Bolshy because I would be aggrieved for the good people paying for their products.

Yeah. One thing I will say is because it happened twice. The first time when I was there because I posted on social media, it got millions of views because loads of people are, why didn't you do anything? Happened so fucking fast.

Yeah, exactly.

They're fucking good at it.

Yeah, it's good.

I mean, they've got some scoop attached to their arm and it literally just. In fridge out. They're fucking good at it.

Oh, I can totally. When I say, oh, I wouldn't have that. I'd be standing up.

I bet I needed my fucking coffee really fucking bad.

So I bet there's a point where you don't even know what's gone on. Like, you literally, like, what the. By that point, they've gone, right, yeah, they're good.

Second time I knew what was going on, but it was still quick.

Yeah.

I mean, I. I Struggled at the start of this interview to remember the name Pierce Morgan. Who you said to me 30 seconds ago, so what am I gonna do on a crime scene?

Get the door, shut the door, lock the door, turn around, arm yourself ideally with a can bosh one to the four. That's what I imagine.

Yeah, of course you do.

You know what will happen? They'll run out and I'll go, guess what, Rob? I just watched someone take the whole of Greg. Cause I did nothing. You know, that's the reality, isn't it? It's fast.

Yeah, but the staff are told to do nothing. And someone on minimum wage, I can completely understand why would they do. Why would they get knifed for that?

Yeah. But if you know it's £200 in California, I believe someone will correct us. I believe it's $800. So you go straight into $800.

Why work? Why not just nick 199 a day? You don't need to work. You don't pay tax on theft. You don't need to work.

Exactly. And that is exactly where people are at in this country is why am I doing. Why am I bothering? Like the grafters trades up at five out in the van. Why am I doing this? Like why. And I see how desperate is to watch people just thieves stuff as well. It's not just the act. It's demoralizing. That that's where we've got to. It's why I love the guy who's going around spray painting pickpockets. So have you heard of him?

No. Tell me.

Yeah, brilliant. I don't know where he's from, but he has a. Feels like a. Maybe an Eastern European accent. So he has a little team that also help him. He has spray paints about his possession. He knows the pickpockets. I don't know if he used to be one. I'm not suggesting he did. But to know one, you got another game. You got to know the game. And he knows where they operate and how. And he goes up and he sprays them. Sprays their face, their hands with a massive air. You've got to have a look. He's a great guy and he does it because he's so tired of watching people be victims. He's standing up for people and he's getting loads of donations. Obviously people applaud him and what a. What a guy. And I think that's what we'll see.

And are already seeing what people taking the responsibility. Responsibility to.

I mean there's already neighborhood patrols going along. There's already security services for certain groups of individuals. You know, spending quite a bit of time in South Africa with the farmers. They had a very, very well established patrol network going for the farms with a radio system, two men on each night on stag, and then a radio checking in on all the farms, checking in in the morning to check everyone was safe. Right. It's not too far to see a leap from where we are to how people need to protect themselves. Yeah. Wow, Sam.