Katie Hopkins Reveals All on Being Arrested, Forced Censorship & The Collapse of Britain

I was cancelled, banned, fired to the point that the only way out would be to swing. Police put me into questioning for an hour and a half because I call myself a spaz. And then at the end, she stopped the recording and then warned me not to talk about any of this.

Don't you think they're going to come for you again?

Yeah. If I go out, I do want to go out in a blaze of glory. How? Straddling a jihadi. He's going to detonate himself. Detonate me as well.

What the is going on in the uk?

This is communism. The more you make people dependent, the easier they are to control.

Do you still hate fat people?

I'm so bad. Positive. But the minute that Mounjaro came along, people are morons. The system is controlling the content. The end of the BBC has been a long time coming. We're going to witness the grand finale.

What's your biggest mistake or regret?

O.

Are you being blackmailed? What do you think of Trump suing the BBC for not 1 billion but 5 billion? 5 billion?

It's 10 on the BBC homepage right now. It's 10 billion, allegedly. So that's a new figure.

So she's going up and up.

Every day it's up and up.

Yeah.

Trump suing the BBC for however many billions, I think is terrific.

Really.

I think it puts a real marker out there. He's not doing this for the cash. He's not doing it because he wants to fight another lawsuit. He's a litigious president that wants to make a clear boundary. You cannot just make up stuff about me or other people. And I think that's the message he's trying to ram home with a price tag attached.

So you don't think he's a bully.

Imagine being the world's leading broadcaster, the nation's broadcaster, BBC Verify. If there's one place you can trust, it's us, the BBC. Are you confused in today's world, Trust us. Oh, and then we're just going to edit someone's speech so that they say something they didn't say. Say. I fail to see how that would be. Trump being the bully. I think that's the BBC being schooled by Trump, which I'm very much enjoying.

Five billion, though. I mean, that could bring down the BBC.

I think the BBC needs to be brought down. You know, I think it's become inflated, full of ego, full of hot air and not much output. I think if it was a. A private enterprise or a private business, you'll know better. But it would be closed down immediately or at least 30% of the staff rem removed. I think it should do a couple of things that it does well. I think it does radio brilliantly well and it's a companion for many, many people in their homes. And I think there is a sort of global news service it could be part of. But there is no justification for taxing the British public in order to fund something that is what is effectively morbidly obese and on its way to death.

So you think this is the start of the end of the BBC, do you?

I think no, Trump is not the start of the end of the BBC. The start of the end of the BBC happened when they got rid of Top Gear and when they allowed leftist lunatics to make non commercial commercial decisions for the whole of the enterprise. The end of the BBC has been a long time coming. We're going to witness the grand finale.

And what do you think it means for media?

Super exciting time right now for media. You know, you and I have seen this play out over years, but the collapse of mainstream media and the new platforms emerging. So Piers Morgan attracting his 30 million pound investment into a new kind of platform that's basically a collection of YouTubers. I hear other big names that maybe I used to work for wanting to have a big platform where they just pull different successful elements into a new channel. That seems to me the way that news and broadcast media and all media is going. And I'm super excited for it.

Yeah. So I initially was a few years ago because I like the thought of independent media. I mean, obviously you need to find good sources of correct information and not everyone's a journalist like they think they are.

True.

But I do, I like free markets, I like competition. And you know, the BBC has been essentially a monopoly, so there's not been competition. And so, you know, all these independent creators like Joe Rogan was, you know, one of the starts of it. I was, I was really a fan of that. But now I'm just seeing it just move down a level because, you know, for example, I know Dan Wootton really well, you mentioned peers, but I just see now he sort of walks or gets fired. He's like, I'm independent. But actually he's still backed by Rupert Murdoch and now he's just got a load of funding. He's still going to be. The mainstream media is just going to move to him and he's still not going to be a bit of a puppet, is he?

Yeah.

So what I'm trying to say I totally.

And that was an explainer about the platform with Piers. But of course, Piers would be the opposite of the kind of media that I would be paying attention to, because Piers has always been controlled, will always be controlled, and will always be in the pockets of those that fund him. But I do see how people who are willing to go out there and take risks, who get out on the pavement and do storytelling from pavements, I can see how pulling those people together makes a lot of sense. I still think that people will go to. I went to Today, the BBC homepage, to see what the BBC news is.

Did you not feel dirty doing that?

I did. I had a little Kleenex wipe up after. No. But I'm being honest, right? So I look at the BBC homepage, I look at the Guardian homepage, and when that doesn't exist anymore, where we miss it, will we miss something that has that stamp of authority on it that just isn't some other YouTuber, you know, what was that thing of credibility? Where will we find it again? I think those are all questions that I don't have the answer to. I remember when I moved from the sun, which I actually, I loved that newspaper and I was in print on a Friday and Daily Mail came and got me and then they were going to make me their online columnist. And I remember even then thinking, well, I don't want to do that. I like to be in print. I want to be in the white van on a piece of paper. And is it all just a degradation of something? Which I think is sort of similar to what your point is. Are we aiming to a lowest common denominator of media? Where's. Where's the bar going to be set? Who's going to hold the standard? Yeah.

Yes. Because like I said, I'm a fan of independent media, but now maybe we're just going to have a billion opinions. Do we need any more opinions?

Do we need any more opinions? And so instead of it running to a bar standard, a journalistic level of integrity, which I would argue the BBC lost a long time ago, are you just going to have people who are so geared to the algorithm and so geared to performance metrics of content, that what you're getting is just content delivered in order to achieve the performance metric? So the system is controlling the content as opposed to humans controlling content? We're feeding the algorithm, we're feeding the tech monster. Now the relationship has changed and is that a good thing? I think probably not.

Yeah. Because I feel like mainstream media, which I do agree is Dying and being disrupted. And I think that's good. But I think that a lot of that power has just moved to social media, which has maybe now become kind of like the mainstream replacement. Because this thing you mentioned about algorithms, I said earlier, every week, as a test, I post something nice and positive. It gets no views. The more angry you are, the more views you get. And I do lay awake at night a couple of times a year thinking, you know, is the tail wagging the dog? Am I sharing what I want to share, or am I playing to knowing what can get engagement? And here's the thing. If you're an artist and no one looks at your work, are you an artist? So you need views. If you're a creator, which you are, and I am, do you feel that paradox?

So I've. I've watched this kind of play out and I've seen the shift with social media. So to your point, the journey went from mainstream media to social media, becoming the new face of news and the kind of reinvigorated Twitter X, the new, you know, the number one source of news globally, blah, blah, blah. But people still haven't necessarily woken up to the fact that social media has moved. So social media was about the number of followers you have. So you have 1.5 million followers on Twitter, 1.5 million on Instagram, whatever you have, and those followers would follow you and you'd be making you have a relationship with maybe 10% of them in a realistic manner. That's all changed. And people have seen it very specifically recently on Instagram. Now, it is not about followers. It is. You are not playing to a crowd that you've won. It is now the algorithm that feels.

Like a con to me.

Yes. So your content will no longer be seen necessarily by your followers or people who have chosen to subscribe. The algorithm will decide what it places in front of you. So it doesn't matter now if you've got one follower. If you create that moment, you've got every likely chance to be viral. So you could say it's egalitarian, or you could say it's a complete con, because the followership that you've built up is now virtually meaningless to you. It's meaningful to AI and the algorithm. So the power's gone back to tech. And that is a whole different landscape. And it's why, to your point, you're saying you post something positive that you just felt and literally, you could maybe get five. You may have millions of followers, you'll get maybe five views. Ben Fogel did this about a week ago. He's always posting something. Ben Fogely. And for people who don't know Ben Fogle, think cozy. Sunday morning Times, news, newspaper, pretty wife, lots of pretty children, horses and lambs frolicking in the fields. That's Ben Fogle. And he put on Instagram. Is anyone out there? Because in one week from getting 6,000 say likes on a post, he was getting two or three because the algorithm had kicked in and people couldn't understand what had happened. So it's this dawning realization by creators that what they've created has gone back to zero.

Yeah. Yeah, I've experienced that. And so then I start to realize what gets me virality and engagement and reach. So I can, to a certain degree, play the system in my favor. But then you can lose who you are in the process.

Right? And then who are you? You're. You're. You're working. You're a bat. Yeah. AI's BS. So AI now controls you because AI is showing its hand a little like a woman unbuttoning her top, imagining being a woman with cleavage. You know, she's.

Well, it'd take about an hour to get that bow off.

I know. I came wrapped.

You might as well have chastised yourself.

If that's a word. Hey, look, if it goes really badly, I could just hang myself from the nearest rafter, swing outside number 10. No. People would chip and throw tomatoes. But. So you've become AI's bitch because she showed herself to you. Like, oh, look how you win me. Look how you can get more out of me. Look what. And now you're going to feed her, right? You're going to tickle her nipples. You're going to go, oh, I want what she's got. And isn't that a weird realization? And then you question, what am I doing? Why did I start doing this? What is this about? What am I. What am I doing with my life? Am I feeding an algorithm? Holy shit. When did that happen to me?

Yeah. Yeah. Am I making the world a better place? Or am I just getting sucked into all the negativity?

Yeah. And if you don't get any views on something that you chose to post, does it matter? Why does it matter? Why does it matter to you that someone has to see it?

Well, if you're a creator, it matters.

Does it? And if you're an artist, does it matter if you make something that's terrific in your. In your mind, the best thing you've ever done, does it matter that people see it Yes.

I mean, I used to be an artist, so I can answer this with some level of credibility. I've got a third of my work still hung up in my fucking home 25 years later because I couldn't sell it. And I can look at it and go, you know, I did that because I loved it. Now I look at that and go, I was, I couldn't fucking sell that. That's why I've still got it. There's an, you know, if you are something, you want the results in the thing, surely.

Yeah. And I'm, you know that. So, so now I do, you know.

I mean, if you're, you're a comedian. Sorry to interrupt. No, if you do your shows, you know, it doesn, it doesn't really matter if they laugh. So I'm just going to say what I want. If they don't laugh, it doesn't matter. They'll all turn up next time. You've got to make them laugh, haven't you?

So that's exactly where I was going.

Sorry.

No, no, it's fine. We're the same. No, not at all. It's the same.

You came too early.

No, I mean, I've had experiences like that and I have advice for women on that, but it's a separate matter. But exactly that. If I wasn't blushing. You're so cute.

I just embarrassed myself.

I know. That was so cute. I saw that. Yeah. All I have to do is hold.

A mirror up, just look at me like that.

Yeah. And then you're gone.

Yeah, yeah.

So if I was, if I've kind of said for a year or so, if I wasn't selling tickets for my standup, I couldn't. I mean, I can hardly bring myself to say, I do stand up, I do do stand up, but I just won't allow myself to acknowledge that for some reason. But if I couldn't sell a ticket, I wouldn't do it. So I'm agreeing with you because I feel like, well, if no one wants to come, then I don't want to do it. But a true stand up, the true. Someone who's sort of, I guess, more of a theoretical stand up. They go up to Edinburgh to do the Fringe. They run many nights without a single seat sold because they're doing the Fringe, because they do comedy. And that's what the graft of the grind of the comedy thing is about. There's this sort of purist group of people that I've interacted with and it's odd to me.

And then that's a good practicing ground. So then they can go and sell tickets.

That's the idea.

Yeah, exactly. So they're not just doing it, you know, for sure.

And they're. Well, there is, for the plot, there is this sort of lubrication of the purest stand up. So the purest stand up that can't really sell many tickets. They lubricate each other because they go, ah, but your comedy is so skilled and so crafted and so honed and you are so funny. And here's an award. So they can't sell a ticket, but they get the award. So there is something about this creation of content. Does it matter who sees it? If you're respected within your industry, is that enough? But I think for someone like you and I, we have to have eyeballs on, otherwise what are we doing? Because I guess we're kind of innately performing.

So someone said to me, who styles himself as an expert in social media and algorithms, he says it's not the fault of the algorithms or social media, it's human behavior. What do you think about that? I mean, that you nearly barked there. Yeah. Because, you know, maybe we need to take responsibility. I when my haters go and hate in on my content that they don't like, I know very well I've created content that they would like. You know, the joke's on them that they're feeding the algorithm. But if people just didn't respond to what they didn't want to perpetuate and did respond to what they did want to perpetuate, surely the algorithms would change.

The algorithm now, I think, has much less to do with a reaction to humans. It's more of a steering committee now. It's deciding the trajectory of what it's going to feed you. And we're only modifying it slightly. I disagree with your expert. Well, I'm never a fan of anyone that calls themselves an expert, nor anyone who has to wear a fancy dress to work, for example, a doctor or a lawyer, in order to sort of enunciate to the world that they're clearly an expert. Because, look, I've worn fancy dress to work. But I think if he particularly be frightened children, if someone says, you know, I'm from security and they've got a half a pip on a Velcro thing here, you know, eyes on those people. But you're.

Especially if they work for the BBC.

Oh. Or if they've got a lanyard. Oh, always be wary of lanyard. That's the ultimate uniform. That is fucking lanyard. Linda, with her lanyard on one of those, you know, the in and outy ones. Regardless, your expert friend, I think is incorrect. I think the AI is already functioning at a higher level than humans are. Humans aren't to blame now. I mean, AI, if any of us had any understanding of where AI was already at, we'd be more terrified than we are just reading the article about how lawyers are already extinct, they're defunct, they don't exist anymore. They haven't caught up yet, but they don't exist. Wow. They're gone. The legal profession is gone.

I know that won't be the only profession.

Oh no, but it's a very good example of someone now paid over 200,000 pound a year with quite a lot of puff in their chest, who doesn't exist and may start to be realizing it, but doesn't yet know it. It's gone.

Thankfully for you. AI doesn't do comedy or satire very well at all.

Yeah, and I don't think it's not.

Going to wipe you out.

It's not that order of things actually.

Okay.

It's the other way around.

Right.

So, working out all the reasons I've been cancelled, banned, fired, removed from countries, removed from my life, I had my house taken, came for my kids, or a couple of Jihadis came from my head. When you work out the algorithm and you study it and you look at her offering herself to you and you work her out. Well, I worked out quite a while back that something that's generated by a bunch of H1B visa soy sat in California jerking off their tiny chip a lot of of sausages into some old picture of Steve Jobs. The one thing those soy would never have is a sense of humor. And the algorithm, of course, with linguistic variation, with tonal variation, algorithms can't perceive that because they're not smart enough yet. So if then you're smart, you work out, the way you can still deliver what you've been doing all along is to outplay the algorithm. Which is where my stand up decision came from. You know, I treat AI and the algorithm like a German or a Canadian, Right? No sense of humor, very linear and rule taking. And if you play the fool, it doesn't know what to do with you. Which is why I'm probably better known now than at any point that I have been.

Wow, look at you.

Yeah, pretty smart.

Yeah, turns out pretty smart. What's the truth about, were you arrested recently? Was it just a caution where you're arrested? What really happened?

Yeah, and I get a lot of people Saying, yeah, but were you actually arrested, right, because there's this weird thing where you can say like an outrageous, like a truth. Like Devon and Cornwall police put me into questioning for an hour and a half because I call myself a spaz. Right, that is outrageous enough.

Right, and that happened, did it?

Yeah, I'll go back to that in a second. That, that's. That, that should be enough for people to go, well, that is not right, but they don't. They go, yeah, but were you. But, yeah, but were you actually. But did you actually get cuffed? Were you actually bum raped by three members of the police force? Because only then will I believe maybe you might have suffered, right? There's this need which you just went straight down because you're doing a good job. But is. Yeah, but were you. So A, off. I was hauled in for calling myself a spaz. That's not enough for you? You need me nailed on a cross off. Okay. B, I was sent a letter in early. Boy, I'm gonna say May, April, May at the start of my last tour is to frame the reference on it. And it said reason to believe speech that is against. I want to say section 230, but I don't know the correct one. Something to do with offensive speech on my Katie's Arms, which is my pub night that I run every Friday. Glass of wine, put the world to right. Lots of people join in, have a laugh at me. And so I had two choices on the letter. One which I can send to you actually that'd be helpful. One is to be arrested and two is to come in interview under caution. And I've been through this before in the past, as you can imagine, the choices are come in and talk to us and being recorded as a serious matter. That will be the file they put together to send to the CPS to see if they can charge you or will come and arrest you. So I pushed back because I was trying to say I'm not, I'm not going to do it. But equally I had a tour and knowing how police work, especially with me, that would be the start of a tour, a thousand seater audience and I'd be arrested on stage. That it wouldn't be done politely or discreetly or helpfully to me. So I worked with Free Speech Union. We agreed I would come in at the end of the tour. So I knew that I would be able to, I wouldn't fail any of my audience, which I refused to do. And I tried to. I rewrote the statement, the Free Speech Union Helped me draft a correct statement. I drafted what I wanted to say, which was a couple of sentences and much more punchy. And it was agreed that if I was going to have free speech help me, which I'm very grateful to Toby and the team, that we would have a compromise. We got it down to one page and I went in there of my own free will. At an agreed time, I was taken to a room by two bints from Devon and Cornwall Police and Dorset. So the whole of the south of England cid, which I said the other day, was Chief Inspectors Division. It's not. It's Criminal Investigation Division. Whatever they said, I just sit. That's all I see is the clown car into a room and then they begin the recording and then you have to. I was interviewed for an hour and a half in criminal proceedings.

What did they ask you?

Well, because I called myself a spaz. Because.

So. So what did that. But what was the question? Accusation.

The accusation is that I caused offense, perceived offense to others by self depreciating, by calling myself a spaz. On my Katie's Arms, which is a live Instagram feed that you would have to. I'm not standing like outside here on the street corner with a, with a megaphone going, I'm a spaz. Maybe you're a spouse. Right? Which is effectively the stuff I was doing. I was being Joey Deacon. This won't be a reference, you know, but no, I, I am actually again though. Yeah.

Yeah.

I have a disabled card.

Yeah.

And on the train this morning, so I buy a ticket with a disabled card because you get a really good discount, right. And then when they come down to do they say, tickets, all tickets, passes please. I try and act as spaz as I can to challenge them. To challenge them to see if they'll ask for my disabled card. So when they come up and go, tickets, passes, I go with my phone. And then to challenge that, go on, ask me for my disabled card. And typically they don't. One has gotta do this to get it. So it's my gag with myself, you know, I'm missing half my head. I am a spaz. I tell people, be more weird, take up more space, be as odd as you can be because so many more people will find a place to fit in under your wings if you're weird. Regardless. So an hour and a half in Devon and Cornwall, police in a cell thing being recorded. And then she had questions after questions. Do you realize how offensive the word spaz is? Do you realize by calling yourself a spaz, you're causing offense to other people. You had a glass of wine in your hand. Do you drink often? Would you consider yourself a drunk? Are you a drunk? And a spurs. At which point I just lost it. There was loads of times in that. And what I'm trying to get, and I, I promise you if I get it, I will give it to you before I release it, whether you want to use it or not. And you can have first refusal, but we are trying to get the recording of me in that interview under caution because with a good edit on that, I mean, there is a whole stand up routine in that. I mean, some of the questions. Is it acceptable to take the piss out of yourself? You know, just for an hour and a half. Truly unbelievable. And then at the end she stopped the recording and then warned me not to talk about any of this because it might cause me more problems than I already had.

So do you think they're going to come for you again?

So no. So then, because the process is the punishment, so you send the early letter in May, then we agree, okay, Katie will come in in August, I go in in August and then August, September, October, November, we just heard, I don't know, was it a week ago? So then end of November, oh, there's no charge. So you have to wait three months to see if the cps, the Crown Prosecution Service will decide, is it chargeable?

I mean, how much money must that have cost? Must have cost tens of thousands of pounds.

Tens and tens of thousands of pounds. It was done ahead of the United Kingdom rally in the UK because they knew I would be a speaker. I think it's always a warning shot across your bow to say, wind your neck in trying to intimidate you out of being the speaker because maybe you'll be arrested on the day. And then what you have to remember for people that think, well, it's Katie, she's used to it, it's Katie, she's used to it. You know, in my private life I have a family and children and things. So you are then prepared when the door knocks? You're prepared. So I immediately remove myself. The children know not to answer the door. If they do answer the door, I'm not there you are. The knock on the door becomes something. It's not a nothing. I'm not afraid of being arrested, but it's not a nothing when it's in your home. So it has impacts for sure. But I'm out using this word spaz as much as I can because I feel like it's A reclaiming thing. Right. We have to reclaim language, the right to self deprecate. I would never stand in the street and go spaz someone unless it was a mate.

So you was this targeted? You got targeted?

Yeah, 100%. I think before Unite the Kingdom rally, there would have been some sort of abusive going out. You know, get. Get the heads down. Like in military terms, you fire shots where you vaguely think the enemy is to get their heads down in order that you can move forwards.

Right.

So that would be what happened there. Just a scatter gun, get their heads down, hope she pulls out, you know, take away the noise from Unite the Kingdom. That would be my interpretation.

Wow. And we've just had Lucy Connolly on the show.

Oh, bless her.

And she got four years. Like people don't know this because she wasn't in for four years. She got four years for a tweet and she said that the person who was being tried before her was convicted of GBH had a balaclava, used a crowbar and got two years. And she got four years for a tweet. And she believed it came from Kia Starmer. It was. It was a directive. What do you think about that? Because sometimes I think, okay, well, maybe they needed to control the riots and make a few examples. I'd love to be naive. I think we're all treated fairly, but we're obviously not. Could. Could that there have been a revolution then? And then part of me thinks it's completely unfair and ridiculous and it's just a surveillance state. What do you think?

Yeah, I think Lucy Connolly is. Is absolutely correct. I think at that time they saw that those riots or those. The flare up could have become a nationwide riot. I absolutely think that moment was there. You know, everybody was ready. It could have absolutely become nationwide. An uprising against the government and illegals attacking our kids. So they had to take an immediate and draconian action. They let out rapists and pedophiles and the rest of it to make space. There's no way you would have got those individuals into court at that rate if it wasn't a government directive. Because as you all know, the wait list for court system is two years plus. And then for them to be sentencing individuals at the rate that they sentenced to, sentenced them at the. The seriousness of the sentencing was a message out to everyone else. The same idea as I was just explaining. Get your heads down, you know, fire across them, fire across them. Take out, you know, some of the major players and the others will put their heads down because they don't want it happening to them. So, absolutely, I think that's what Lucy got and I think she's done very well to come out of it sane and speaking up. And I think it's right that that happens is absolute insanity that that's happened. The thing that gives me secret comfort is that Keir Starmer, of course comes from the legal profession. You know, he was chief prosecutor when grooming gangs were widely ignored. The fact that the legal hierarchy no longer exists. Barristers don't exist anymore because of AI. Legal is gone. Judges even are gone. So there is a time coming where it isn't humans controlled by a government that's going to be dispensing law. So there is a future moment of hope. But I absolutely think that came directly from Keir Starmer. And some of us will just have to take the punishment. Lucy took it, the other guys took it. The guy that didn't make it out of prison, that killed himself in there, he didn't. He takes the punishment but doesn't get to survive it. I'll take it to, you know, that's just, that's just going to be the price you pay for being visible at the pointy end of things.

Wow. Well, I want to come back later to if that's worth it. But also there's the Jerry Barton stuff going on, isn't there, where he's. Did he's. Did he get a suspended sentence? Did that happen? How did it work?

Yeah, so Joey Barton called a presenter of radio to allegedly called him a bite nonce, which I think is just. I mean, if he just called him a pedo, it might have been all right, I don't know. And then he said that another black sports commentator, female, was only there because she was fulfilling diversity criteria. And a jury found him guilty of whatever serious harm. And so he was given a six month sentence, suspended. So a six month prison sentence that is currently suspended to basically keep his head down so he doesn't do anything else.

And what do you think about that? I mean, it's a fair punishment.

It's absolutely insane. I mean, it's insane. And there's a couple things on it. Number one, the muddying of the waters. A story long told in my life where people believe if you dislike someone, you're unable to be rational about what is the correct punishment for them. So you'll get a lot of people saying, well, Joey Barton's a complete wanker. Joey Barton kicked his head, kicked his wife in the head. Joey Button's a complete git. So he deserves all. Everything he gets. And it's this inability to discern. I like this person, I don't like this person, therefore they should go to jail. I mean, it's a crazy muddle there, but no, it's absolutely ludicrous. I'm so thrilled he's going to challenge it in the High Court. I like the fact that he's been unwilling to be silenced by it. I also really admire him for saying that he's taking a break from social media, which I think is such the smartest play. So this all happens because of social media. You recognize that you've been drawn in to this sort of cycle of negativity where everyone's cheering you on. Go on, Joey. Go on, Joey. You tell him. Go on. He's a complete cunt. Go on, Joey. And all of a sudden, you're the one being sentenced for six months and all these people who are right behind you. Joe, are you. Where did you go? You are the one guy who's gonna lose his house or his money. I like the fact that he hasn't backed down and I like the fact that he's come off social media so that what he's gonna do now going forwards is his own instinct, which is to stand up for the fact that it is not correct to be sent to prison, suspended or not, for words on a social media platform. That's where we have to get back to. We have to get back to a time where words on social media don't get you a prison sentence.

Right. So 12,000 people a year get arrested in the UK for voicing their opinions on social media. And this is more than any other country on the planet.

Planet.

What do you think about that? I mean, I know, but, like, it seems like the UK is the worst place to share your opinion.

And the UK is so litigious. So my case law, that was made especially for me in the case where I called someone on Twitter, I accused someone of doing something they didn't do. I was wrong. I was in the wrong.

And that should, you know, there should be consequences.

There should be consequences for that.

Give people material loss.

Right, exactly. And. And all of us, I would assume, would be on the same page, regardless. If you choose someone of doing something they didn't do, that could cause material loss. And if you don't make that right, well, clearly there's a civil case there, as it turned out, in my case, trying to make it right, trying to make amends. Deleting, apologizing, offering to meet. Wasn't Enough. And there was no need to prove consequence. So serious harm, it was sufficient to perceive that you were seriously harmed. So the person I accused of doing something that I was wrong about, what.

Did you accuse him of doing?

Defacing a war memorial. I muddled two people up. They're both weirdos. But that's not the point. I was wrong because she perceived serious harm. My case that cost me my home was. That became law in the uk. You don't have to prove any harm, you don't have to prove consequence. You can just say you was. You perceived you were.

So I can say that your bow is upsetting me and causing me trauma now, and that's my perception.

That's enough. And you can bring the case and you can ask for 20k. And if I do what most people do, I pay you 20k. Yeah, because you don't want to end up like Katie. Look what happened to her one point, whatever it was.

Well, anyway, so seven figures you lost.

Yeah.

Wow.

Because I, I.

Because you're stubborn.

I am really stubborn. I was offered to pay 5,000 in an initial phase. Is £5,000 to a refugees charity. And I wouldn't do it.

Wait a minute. Now, I know we've talked about this when we first met years ago, but we can't let that go. So you. You ended up losing more than a million pounds.

More. Much more.

But in the early stages of that case, you could have settled by donating five grand to a charity.

No. Oh, you changed that.

Okay. Please forgive me for. It was a question, really. It wasn't a statement.

You've gone on BBC, you've just changed what I say in real time. I'm watching you edit my words.

We were friends. You've just accused me of being.

We'll always be friends. Yeah. So, yeah, in the early phases with this person, I was offered £5,000 I could give her. She was still working at the Guardian at the time, so you can imagine how that would have gone. And I was at LBC and Daily Mail and she wanted five grand for a refugee charity and I would not pay it because I will not help fund illegals into my country. So it cost me over, but it cost me my home, over a million, 1.4 million pounds. Because she perceived that she was serious harm. Seriously harmed. And the law states that the damage is done at the time of publication. So on Twitter, if you retract and delete and apologize and offer to meet and whatever else, it's not enough. Damage is done at the time of publication.

So so there's no point in it then.

So a slippery slope began then, which I tried to fight to maintain because everybody thought I was a biggest bitch in Britain. There was much jubilation of the felling of the cow. Whereas of course what's happened is it's been a slippery slope downwards now that we're criminalizing words and you're getting two years in prison for words. And this is why it's so important to make an early stand, to try to. We have to get back to the point in the UK where words can't be criminal. You should be able to seek.

But what if I incited violence? I think that was the accusation to Lucy Connolly, wasn't it? What if I start a war with my words?

Well, I think the bar for that would have to be incredibly high. And I think the problem is that the bar for that metric is very nebulous. It's very hard to get your arms around something and if you can't measure something then how do you put the bar anywhere? How does the Crown Prosecution know if there's a, a case to answer? And the answer is it was never done on a merit based metric anyway. It was Keir Starmer saying lock em up. So it's a game. And the day you realize the law is not the law is not a happy day.

Yeah, because I'm so confused and maybe because there's a part of me that's naive, but I was in Costa Coffee and this has happened twice and someone comes in, they look homeless and they just literally nick all the sandwiches and drinks and they, and they bugger off and people just stand there. And the first time it happened I was like, well, why don't you do anything? We're told not to do anything and why would I? And anything under 200 pound, that's theft apparently isn't a crime. Basically it's not a crime. And what's the conviction rate of rape? I understand it's about 3% or something ridiculously low. And people are getting knifed. It feels like a lot in London. So we're not dealing with, with proper crime, but we have the highest rate of arrests in the world for voicing opinions what the is going on in.

The uk and it's sort of that whole metric of what's easy policing. And if you go to somewhere like you. I've spent quite a bit of time in Bradford. So if you go to Bradford, it is stark. There's the Bradford that is feels very Bradford. Right. It's all made up of New British people. It's a dark and strange place. There's a lot of other guys driving around in huge vehicles. They're the drug guys, Everybody knows them. They operate out of the garages. There's a lot of garages that have never seen a mechanic or a car for any other reason. And there's a lot of other shops and everyone who lives around those parts knows the system, knows how it works. Up on the hill above Bradford is a nicer bit of Bradford. Nice houses, quite nice people. It's not about colour, it's just the sort of neighbourhood that happens to also be white. Police up there, speeding fines, parking fines, crimes against, you know, tippy typey crimes, they're all over it. Anytime you want to find a police officer, get up to that little bit on the hill where everyone's very nice and getting on with their lives. Police to death, because it's easy policing, it's convenient policing. You get your metrics out of issuing a few speeding fines by sitting in your car, jerky one up to some hideous, I don't know, car magazine. But down in the badlands, where real shit's going down, they don't. It's untouchable because it's inconvenient. It's the same when you look at the examples of these huge festering turds of rubbish dumps that have sprung up that are run by criminal gangs, Right? Oh, so the Oxford one is going to get cleared up because it's in Oxford and all the nice people are in Oxford and they'll complain. But the one that's a festering turd of adults and Trump wherever else isn't going to be touched. I think it's Wigan. It's like the convenient policing. It's so comfy and cozy to police Twitter. And I swear, they think they're so clever. These two women questioning me about my spouse comments. They honestly thought, like, it was a proper Cagney and lacy situation. Like lesbian police women with like super tight polyester clothing because it didn't fit properly, but they just thought they were butch, you know, like, like hand little tasers on the waist, the little cuffs here. They. Right, can you tell us what they just felt powerful, these sturdy little lesbian police officers. Like a fucking. All I could do was sit there thinking, you know, you look like a cross between a fucking prison officer and a swim coach. Like bursting at the crutch, trying to concentrate on the fact that I'm supposed to be the bad guy. They seriously believe they're policing. They're not policing in any regard, but it's just convenient. It's much harder to try and police rape. Much harder to police the dark lands where bad things happen. So, yeah, that's what's going on and it's why we do have to stick up for ourselves. I look forward to someone trying to steal from a shop in front of me. I'd go down fighting for that.

Would you?

Yeah, 100%. You can't say what you're going to do until you do it. So until you've done it, you can't really say that. But I really feel like I would get Bolshy because I would be aggrieved for the good people paying for their products.

Yeah. One thing I will say is because it happened twice the first time when I was there, because a lot. I posted on social media, it got millions of views because loads of people.

Why didn't you do anything?

Happened. So.

Yeah, exactly.

They're good at it.

Yeah.

I mean, they've got some scoop attached to their arm and it literally just in fridge out. Yeah, they're good at it.

Oh, I can totally. When I say, oh, I wouldn't have that. I'd be standing up.

I needed my coffee really bad, so.

I bet there's a point where you don't even know. Know what's gone on. Like, you literally, like, what the. By that point, they've gone, right.

Yeah, they're good. Second time I knew what was going on, but it was still quick.

Yeah.

I mean, I. I struggled at the start of this interview to remember the name Pierce.

Pierce Mor. Who?

You said to me 30 seconds ago, so what am I going to do on a crime scene?

Get the door, shut the door, lock the door, turn around, arm yourself, ideally with a can bosh one to the forehead. That's what I imagine.

Yeah, of course you do.

You know what will happen? They'll run out and I'll go, guess what, Rob? I just walked to watch someone take the whole of Greg's. I did nothing. You know, that's the reality, isn't it? It's fast.

Yeah. But the staff are told to do nothing and someone on minimum wage, I can completely understand why would they do. Why would they get knifed for that?

Yeah. But if you know it's £200 in California, I believe someone will correct us. I believe it's $800. So you go straight into $800.

Why work? Why not just nick 199 a day? You don't need to work, you don't pay Tax on therapy left. You don't need to work.

Exactly. And, and that is. That is exactly where people are at in this country is why am I doing. Why am I bothering? Like the grafters trades up at five out in the van. Why. Why am I doing this? Like, why? And. And I see how desperate is to watch people just thieve stuff as well. It's not just the act, it's demoralizing. That that's where we've got to. It's why I love the guys. Guy who's going around spray painting pickpockets. So have you heard of him?

No, tell me.

Yeah, brilliant. I don't know where he's from, but he has a. It feels like maybe an Eastern European accent. So he has a little team that also help him. He has spray paints about his possession. He knows the pickpockets. I don't know if he used to be one. I'm not suggesting he did, but to know one, you got another game, you got to know the game. And he knows where they operate and how. And he goes up and he sprays them. Sprays their face, their hands with a massive air. You've got to have a look. He's a great guy and he does it because he's so tired of watching people be victims. He's standing up for people and he's getting loads of donations. Obviously people applaud him and what a guy. And I think that's what we'll see.

And are already seeing what people taking the responsibility to.

I mean, there's already neighborhood patrols going along. There's already security services for certain groups of individuals. And, you know, spending quite a bit of time in South Africa with the farmers. They had a very, very well established patrol network going for the farms with a radio system, two men on each night on stag and then a radio checking in on all the farms, checking in in the morning to check everyone was safe. Right. It's not too far to see a leap from where we are to how people need to protect themselves.

Yeah. Wow. All right. So I'm going to go against my better judgment and the algorithms and I'm going to be positive with this question, what can we do about all this? So what are the solutions? Is it Mayor Giuliani style, you know, starting right at the low level crime and having a hard line? Is there anyone in the UK political system that has the strength to deal with these issues? What can we do as solutions to making Broken Britain unbroken?

Yeah, solutions. I love. I have many answers which is good Because I think many people have would have zero answers. Firstly, if we just talk about reform briefly, I believe that directionally we're headed in the right direction with reform. So back to military speak. If you don't know exactly what you're doing or don't know exactly the plan, then your purpose as any leader is to direct the troops in the direction we loosely need to be going in with some level of confidence, even if you haven't got it. And then you can course correct nearer the time. So I would say to anybody who has a beef with with reform, like, oh, but Nigel's not sincere. Oh, look what he did to Rupert Lowe. Oh, this problem that. But I don't like Zia Yousef.

Okay, look what he might have said 480 years ago at school.

One time he was at school and he accidentally, you know, broke someone's recorder. Oh, my God. Well, I won't vote for him then. I'll vote labor. I would say directionally reform. Excellent. Definitely vote reform. Also, don't ask yourself what's wrong with them. Ask what your choices are. Because the choice is that or what? What's your better solution? And if they say Ben Habib advance, fine, he'll be an outrider. He'll help to course correct reform on his outrider motorbike. Good. So the answer is vote reform at the next election. Put away your complaints, your mithering, your blithering about Nigel, whatever, put it away. Get a grip. The next thing that's really important is I think individual action. I totally agree with you that if someone nicks something in a shop, as much as I go, right, I'm gonna do this, do this, twat them in the nuts, can them on the head. I can be the hero of the day. Reality is two minutes later you'll be like, what the just happened? But individuals standing up, I think very important if you are able, capable. You see someone else getting it or getting their phone nicked and you can do something bloody do it. That's my advice.

What about as his name, Ahmed in the Australian shooting?

What a legend. And the two before him that lost their lives trying to wrestle the gun off. They both got shot point blank range. Wow.

So, I mean, look how that has changed. Mobilized and lifted people, everyone sharing it. I saw Bill Ackman wanted to do a gofundme and pump millions in. You just need one person to do something strong and maybe heroic on an ordinary person's level. And I mean, the energy really changed. I loved seeing X flooded with the support for him.

Brilliant. Exactly. That. Ooh. That just made all of my little hairs on my arms stand on end. And so. But I think you. It doesn't have to be a Bondi beach guy with a weapon. Right, so just one person today. There's something, someone. If you saw something or you. Can I get that for you? Can I help you with that one? Act of something. It doesn't have to be a bravery act. It could just be, oh, that's a bit shit. I'm gonna sort that out. Sort one thing out that there's a real. It's not about being seen to do it. No one needs a phone out to show that you did it. You'll know you did it. And there's something really good about that. So, you know, I can do three or four things this morning on the way here and that you'll feel like I'm ready and you're looking like I'm always looking. Looking to check where people are. Because I'm conscious of people around me, for obvious reasons. The other thing that I think is really important is purpose. So one of the things that doesn't get spoken about because the algorithm likes us to be negative is we can say, why do I do. Why do I bother? What, look at them all? Or I listen to someone who's just read the Daily Mail. What look, they just get it all for free, doing nothing. What is the purpose? What is the point? Why do I. But of course, that isn't true. Because without purpose as humanity, we have nothing. We are nothing. Purpose is what's always. We used to be motivated by the purpose of feeding ourselves, in a literal sense, surviving the next day. And now we have to be motivated by something equal and bigger. You have to have purpose, otherwise you don't thrive. So the answer to why do I bother? Is because you must. Because you have to, for your very survival and for your kids survival, to see that you have purpose. Purpose, Right. And that makes me feel happy. And then the other thing, finally, is, I cannot tell you how lucky I am to be doing what I do now at this time, because I get to do a lot of uplift. What I typically bring on a daily basis is mockery of myself, mockery of the system, mockery of others trying to find the fun. Right. And it brings a laugh. And. And that is partly what people need to do now as well, is look after yourself and try and make sure you stay okay. You have to kind of. That's an effortful thing. Effort filled on a daily basis. Am I all Right, how do I help lift myself up? And that's kind of my purpose at the moment, is that whole, it's going to be all right. And look at us and we're amazing and we're brilliant and look how much laughter you can bring. You know, there's a guy, I got off the train and the train manager came legging it down the platform, gave me a massive cuddle and went, I believe in you. And I went, right, good. And then walked off and then had to do it. My shoelace. So, like there's, you know, there's that thing of it can be good. I went over. There was a band at Paddington playing Christmas carols, so I donated to them. And then a guy came up and shook my hand and went, keep going. So I just. There's nothing but goodness in the day today. The lady at the downstairs at reception, super fun, super nice lady at the coffee shop came and had a photo. It's not about the me thing, it's, look at all the points of light here, like five before nine in the morning. The world is really awesome. And the more you can get away from online, the more we get in person, the more we return to purpose filled human contact. I think, I think we all start to recover. I think we're all in recovery, actually, from the addiction. I've always wanted something I'd love to do at a school or somewhere. I'd love to get a set of, well, actually any number of people, but particularly kids, and get a vodka bottle and a rum bottle and tape people's phones to those bottles and make them for a week, carry that. Because I think that awakening of seeing what the addiction level is actually like, in a way that we recognize addiction would, Would be very helpful, a very visual way of seeing the addiction problem we've got. And you could argue, and I would agree that I'm part of the problem because my stuff is on social media a lot, so surely I'm just perpetuating the problem.

Well, it was all positive until that point.

Yeah, well, I have to level some criticism at myself, don't I? Yeah.

And obviously that was very positive and empowered and we'll have to edit that out because it's not negative enough, is it? No. Thank you for sharing that.

I agree.

What's that saying that I do really love and that be the change you want to see in the world. Maybe some people think that's a little bit trite, but I think if you do these little things, that butterfly effect could really kick off. And also if if you get to the end of the day and feel good about yourself because of maybe a few little difficult things that you did that weren't easy and they maybe made a small difference, but they made a difference. Yeah, I think that's a very positive message.

I think so. I think someone like you and other people who employ people, like, if you go home at night and you've managed to keep someone else in a job that's epic, like, you may not get recognition from that, from the government. In fact, you might get penalized more.

National insurance, of course, you might be.

Made to feel like it's a mistake employing people, but actually the opposite is true. The truth is, you've also helped someone else get through the day. There should be enormous credit for that. And all of this stuff, I'm saying, you'll say, yeah, that's airy, fair. It's all very, well, it doesn't fix anything. I believe it does.

It fixes unemployment, it fixes ourselves.

If you fix yourself, that's a really good starting point. And of course, there's very hard things anyone could say, do I think a bunch of people need to get kicked out the country? Sure. Would I have the Navy in the Channel? Sure. Have I always said that for 10 years? Sure. But you can only say the same thing for so much before you get bored of it yourself. But I do think fixing yourself, doing one good thing, being ready to be the hero, if you can be.

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By who? How exciting.

Well, that's the question.

Now I want to be. No.

Have you been? No, not at all.

So the only thing I came to was my. So my first husband, Damien.

Is that his real name or is that what you've done?

No, no, that's his real name. Yeah, I know, I know, but true, true, true. Also, there was a warning, you know, given at birth, as it turned out, and he was way older than me, maybe 20 years older than me, and I stole him from someone else. So, you know, before anyone feels any degree of sympathy for me, have none. And we were going to get married, got married, and everybody knew, apparently, that it was never going to last. That whole. I'll give it a year, eight months, or we lost it. Dreadful. But then a secretary in the company, he went off with the secretary, which. What goes around comes around. Right, Suck it up, sunshine. She. They. He moved her over to our. My apartment in Manhattan and she mailed my stuff back to me from my home in Manhattan. And I rang her because I had two children under the age of two. I rang her and asked for my husband back and because I thought it was the right thing to do for my children, because stable family unit, blah, blah, blah, good Methodist upbringing. And she said no. She said, I have choices. So that's the closest thing to blackmail that I can think of, is someone taking your husband and refusing to give him back.

Did you really want him back or you just did it for the first time?

No. Yeah. In hindsight, of course, I realized that was hugely stupid. And people would sit there tutting, saying, how ridiculous. But at the point that you're on your own with two little tiny children and you think I'm gonna have to explain to them at some point where your dad went. I'd rather just suck it up on their behalf. Yeah. Yeah, Terrible, really. The decisions we make when we're. We make many flawed choices. I think I certainly have, obviously, being that I've been fired from everything I've ever done.

Why don't you keep quiet, then?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that's why, you know, that's a really great, great question to always ask.

I mean, you'd be richer if you wouldn't.

£1.4 million wouldn't have gone off, too.

And if you'd have invested that well in the Magnificent Seven Stop market, you'd be a billionaire by now, wouldn't you?

So, yeah, I mean, that's always the. My own antidote to my second, myself. Anytime that I've. I'm sharing something, obviously, like. Like being arrested or not going in to be interviewed under caution by Devon and Cornwall police. The. My sort of antidote to myself is. Yeah. So you could have shut up. So you could have shut up. And that's always true. Everyone is right. Or if they think, why don't you just shut up, you old hag? Aren't you dead yet?

You know, I wouldn't say that.

No, no, but people will say that, obviously. But.

But I wouldn't. But do you not ever think before, oh, this could get me in trouble. Oh, maybe I can do something else.

Back in the day, I used to think, oh, this isn't going to go well for me. And sometimes press launch, you know, throw the grenade. And this was particularly true when I was employed, which is a useful thing for many people to be employed. So when I had an LBC job, you know, that's pretty hardcore in terms of a discipline, a regimen ofcom regulated bosses, layers of structure, management hierarchy, people to answer to, Daily Mail. I mean, you don't even want to. No one would want to know what it's like to actually try and work inside those organ. It's brutal. So you don't piss those employers off because they'll do you every day. But since becoming more of a working for myself person, I now sort of crossed the Rubicon, which I think happened when I survived my massive surgery for my brain that has made me a spaz, is I've crossed the Rubicon into this new territory where it doesn't matter now. It doesn't matter what they do.

Okay, let me ask you one thing on that.

Yeah.

Look what happened to Charlie Kirk.

Yes.

So maybe.

Oh, for sure. No, that's always been.

Because did that not make you worry slightly? That could be you.

Oh, that's always been. I mean, that's been since Foreverland for the last. Certainly for the last 25 years.

When did the jihadi threat happen for you? Yeah, when was that?

That was so back in the old house before I lost it. So must have been at the height of my powers. In terms of LBC mail online, I would say 10 years ago, I want to say that was very, very real. Cause that was practiced with a knife. The men coming into my house to set up alarms around my house, patrol units around my house, that was an imminent threat to life. But I've always felt that if I was going to go down, taken out by someone would be on the street. And I've always. I always feel like that will happen still.

I still would imagine you think you're gonna get.

I would imagine you just imagine you're. I don't imagine being old. I didn't imagine living this long. But you have to accept that at any point, if someone chose to, they can remove you permanently. But I definitely don't have fear about that. You see how I walk around, I don't have any security. I've never had security. So I don't have any fear?

Why stroke? How, how do you not have any?

None. Because I was her age, 28, a seizure from my epilepsy, I used to be a massive epileptic seizure would kill me within two years, I was told. So 28, 31, I got my big surgery and lived. And I'm functioning at some capacity, so I'm well overdue my time. I saw that the edge, the periphery of the end, somewhere in that middle dark patch in my life. And it was very, very, very calm, you know, to the point. Lovely Mark was getting me to record messages for the children. It wasn't looking lightly at survival, it was very calm and I know the end is super calm. Some of my best days have definitely been on morphine with a catheter. So I will just add that for anyone if you've got end of life or your terminal, do not be afraid of it because catheter, morphine, happy days. I'd do that every week if I could. If there was an all inclusive that involved catheters and morphine, I'd sign up tomorrow. And also because I just feel really, really alive, like more so now than ever because I have lived through, endured, been properly annihilated and now I'm able to walk the streets, be around people, happy to see you. And I've got this joy thing. I just don't even know, I don't even know how I got to be alive to be doing this bit. I never thought this, I would get this bit. So I'm so, I'm so excited. And because I've seen the win, I know most people feel like this is the worst time ever, but I've seen the win coming for five years. This is one of the best times ever because it's coming.

What's coming?

Oh, just good times, good times. This, this. You have to have a winter before the spring. You have to be forced to the point where there is an uprising, there is a complete change, there is a 180 in direction it has to come. And I know we'll lose people, we'll lose people to suicide, we'll lose people to Eastern Europe, we'll lose a load.

Of people to dub.

We'Ll lose people to America. But there is this core of Britain that is great. It is, it is butchers with machetes and I am here for it. And so I just feel like in a non preachy Jesus way, I just feel joy to be still here and, and I love it and I know lovely people, you for all I say about you, and what everyone else says about you being a wanker, your bloody genius.

Oh, thank you.

You are. And that's true of so many people. And I, I love it. Humans are awesome. And that's why when people talk about AI tech, the algorithm, nothing will ever be British people having a laugh together. You can't beat it. No other country has our sense of humor or a Britishness. And we're this teeny, teeny pissy island. You know, anytime you're feeling a little morose, just look at the world map, look at us. We're this little gnats bite on the arse of nothing. And yet British people are magnificent.

Do you feel like you're cancelled? Because I know intimately because of what we experience with one of the venues. I know that you can't get in many venues now. I'm sure there's loads of media. You just, you can't get anywhere near here. Do you feel like we have free speech and do you feel like you're cancelled or because you've got a few of your own channels them you because you know you've still got a really big following. Where do you sit on that?

Yeah. So doing these stand up tours I've learned something really important, which I've always believed. So I used to say on Twitter or whatever followers like my path. So people would say, why don't you follow anyone? You, you, you narcissist dick, bigoted cow. You don't follow anyone because you don't listen. Opposite true. Watch what your followers are saying. Watch what? Listen very carefully and quietly. The audience will tell you, will inform everything. Which is why LBC worked so brilliantly. Because I could have people call me from their kitchens on a Sunday and they would whisper to me on the radio like they were sharing secrets. But it was being informed at a almost one to one level about where the country's at. And it's true with stand up or whatever this is I do in theatres, that audience inform everything. You walk in that room and it is amazing. You can people just remember what it feels like to belong and the fact that these theatres that will have me and have held firm. This is now. So for my next tour, Free Range, these theaters on this list are the only theaters in the UK that will have me, that are loyal, have held firm and even a number of these I've had to fight for like a freaking fighting to mate to get them to hold.

So there's 25 venues or 24 because there's a TBC. So there's 2425 venues on here. So you're saying they're pretty much the only 25 in the UK that will have you.

Yes, and I. I challenge. That's a direct challenge, right. To a theater or anyone. Not someone who knows a theater. We don't need. Have you tried the blah, blah, blah Bl? Believe me, we've tried. If you're a theater manager and you want to contradict me, I'm all ears. Landlordatiesarms.com yeah, these are the only theaters in the whole of the five nations that will allow me to perform and will withstand minimal pressure from people who had no intention of coming anyway. So when theaters say we're struggling, it's so difficult to stay alive, we can't keep going. We need donations. No. Stop being the moral arbiters of what other people can listen to. Open your doors and let people decide with their feet. That's my only ask.

So I want to share the coin exchange in Stamford because it's just down the road from.

Come on.

Yeah, it's the. It's the. It's the posher village outside.

It's posh. And we've had to fight really hard to make sure we've got the dates we were promised. And we have. Right. So we're delighted with that. And one date has already sold out. So the point about the Free Range Tour is, is it is an opportunity for people to come together. It is an opportunity to be in a room of people. It doesn't matter what you think, what you believe, what color you are, where you come from, your religion doesn't matter. You will remember how it feels to belong to Rock up at the bar. And everyone go, you're right, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be in the queue for the toilets. And everyone talk. It's. It's old school, amazing feeling. And you will come out of there remembering, like, to have hope. It gives. It'll give you hope. And I love it. It. I love it.

And it's called the Free Range Tour.

Yeah. My mother said, well, I hope you're going to tell them. And I was like, what? I hope you're going to tell them. What about the chickens. What? Well, not all the free range ones are okay. Some of them have damaged knees. I was like, mum, that is not going to be the subject of the talk.

But it is the subject of the talk.

No, it's just free range, as in, yeah, say what the hell I want. You know, the normal. Rip them to pot, rip myself to part over, share Everything and, and laugh and what I love is that people brought their husbands who didn't have any clue who I was, you know, and then they, they loved it more than their wives or people that brought their. So 90 year olds and 19 year olds, typically. We always make sure we make a fuss of them. So there's granddad with the grandson and. And then always a really strong showing from sturdy lesbians. I pull a really.

Why do you think. Why do you think you pull a lot of lesbians in?

I don't know why I pull such a straw. I have such a. A strong little earth being pulling. I think it's because people think I go down there like a deep sea diver on an oil rig or something.

I'm. I'm supposed to be a serious entrepreneur.

I know, but when faced with a muff diving specialist, your beard would, you know, I'm sure Velcro. There's been a lot that's happened in that beard, I'm sure. I've had experiences with beards. Fantastic.

Anyway, back to the question. Are you cancelled?

It's a funny one, isn't it? Because people say, how are you cancelled? You've got the biggest gob I know. And I can't move for hearing you. I would say I was canceled. I would say I was beaten to the ground, stomped on, had everything taken. And admittedly a lot of it can be my fault or blamed on me, but God, I was. I was thoroughly, thoroughly fucked and destroyed to the point that the only way out would be to swing and to be as back as I am. I can't say I'm cancelled now, but I can say the struggle to try and do this, this is a battle to fight back for stages, for other people to perform on the push. Calling myself a spaz is not just about, oh, I got a quick laugh out of that. There's no monetization in that for me. People think you get paid for doing, doing things online. I don't get any money from my Instagram. It's not about that. I'm trying to make that space so other people can walk a bit or think a bit.

Yeah.

So that's my job. I think my job is that being that freaking icebreaker going through or the bulldozer. And that's how I see myself. And eventually a bulldozer has to break down. I just hope if I go out, I do want to go out in a blaze of glory. Like, I don't want to.

You're an honorable death, you mean?

Oh, God, yeah. I definitely Want to go out how? Straddling a jihadi, you know, if he's going to detonate himself, detonate me as well. Like, I'm not saying I'm going to go and get 72 virgins and I honestly would never want to sleep with a virgin anyway. I'm just saying don't let me dwindle to a sad demise when I'm 70 and doubly incontinent and don't know who I am.

How do you feel that the shooter in Australia wasn't kicked out of Australia but you were kicked out of Australia? How does that make you feel?

So I personally completely blame Albo and the Australian government for the massacre of Jewish people on the beach in Bondi Albanese and the government in Australia are as guilty as the two shooters in Australia. The Australian government should be prosecuted for crimes against the Australian people. And all those who are complicit in the government should be tried for crimes against the Australian people. Australian people want that government removed. They want them out and they want Australia first. And they want the first rule of any government. The first thing you should do is protect your citizens. And they fail to do that. And quite frankly, as much as the guy who wrestled the gunman is a hero, that's not enough because you get the trite stuff then saying, ah, yes, but the hero was a Muslim. Yes, I know. That doesn't mean the two gunmen should have been in the country. I was deported from Australia. Much more than that. I had my visa cancelled. Much more than that. I was charged with a crime that was made up, fabricated crime. I had my visa cancelled. I was told I'd be taken to illegal immigration. I was deported from the country. And yet they continually import people who wish nothing but harm on the Australian peoples. So the government are absolutely complicit and always have been.

Wow. And what do you think of the UK government and how Labour are doing so?

The UK government are also complicit in the annihilation of British people. They will oversee the greatest shrinkage of traditional British people, I think, of any era. They've incentivized dependency. They want everyone dependent on the state, they want everyone to be paid up by the public sector. So they are totally and utterly controlled. And the next time they shut down the country people will be totally controlled because they're totally dependent. So they are wiping out all independent thought.

So this isn't just socialism, this is communism then?

This is communism. Control of the judiciary, control of the.

Individual, as in the 800 year law of a jury system. They're going to wipe out pretty much.

And judges controlled by what Keir says or the government. Government says the increase in public sector never seen at a greater rate than now. Public sector pay increasing, a greatest rate ever. Benefit system increasing. Make people dependent. It's what the Democrats do in America as well. The more you make people dependent, the easier they are to control.

And do you think the digital IDs all a big part of that?

I think anything they can do to force digital id, they will do. It will be here. It is going to be compulsory and the only way you're going to escape it is by moving. Moving to countries where it isn't going to be.

Why do you stay here, then?

I can't. I can't.

I want to let you in.

Yes. Well, yeah. I'm banned from South Africa.

How many countries are only.

Well, two, plus a bit of Wales. Oh, so two and a half. Yeah, that I know of.

Right.

But then again, if I tried to go to New Zealand, not sure I'd get a visa. So I haven't. There's countries I haven't tried. I mean, I would always move to countries that didn't lock down. Down. So South America is always a very good bet because where. Countries where people have to work in order to survive, they don't mess with those people. Yeah. So you'll find home amongst people who have returned to a more fundamental state of being.

Right.

Yeah.

There seems to be mass hysteria about this flu at the moment. Is this going to be a Covid round two? This is another test of us.

The COVID Cantarati are out in full force again. You see them getting all excited there with their face masks on as they go into the supermarket, flicking their nipples at the thought that maybe they'll get to hand sanitize their trolley handle when they go into Aldi. Maybe they'll get to a queue or a sticky circle around the side of Sainsbury's. Or Waitrose, because only clean people go to Waitrose, so we're only shopping in Waitrose now. Maybe they'll get themselves a little flag and they can go outside and put a little flag up. Saving the NHS from the super flu. Just have a cat cape. Does it. Does it have a special uniform because it's the superflu. Are they going to go out and pound their pots and pans again? Are they going to go out and maybe have a cello quartet, you know, on a Thursday night at 8 o'? Clock? Will that save people? Did they get their Flu booster. Did they get the COVID booster? And if they did get it, why do they need someone else to take it as well? Those people are back and they are loving it, I'm telling you.

Does it worry you?

What I'm amazed by is that the COVID counteratti have not learned. They're back in full force again now. They're the super flu fuckwits. Covid conterati morphed in this latest variation to super flu fuckwits. You would think you could only take a sheep up the ass once, but no, you can keep buggering that sheep until it's so full of vaccines it's got no fucking blood left in its system. People are morons now. Yeah, they're Batman. They're back. And I've heard them. I see, I listen. Public transport for me is my. One of my favorite. I used to sit there like a little siphoning thing, siphoning in conversations, and I hear them saying, well, I've got my flu jab and I've had my shingles jab and I've got my vaccine booster. And did you see? Margaret says she's only shopping at Waitrose because it's cleaner. They're 98 years old, these fuckers. I mean, I don't want to, you know, break the news to them, but how much longer do they think they've got? What's the mask protecting them from death? Fucking hell, love. 98. How much longer do you think you've got?

Is X really a free speech platform?

X is now controlled by the algorithm, so we will feed you what it thinks you want to hear, which means it's not a free speech platform.

That kind of sounds against what Elon Musk is about.

Ultimately, you know, I love Elon Musk, as we know. I have offered to blow Elon.

You did? On our last show. Yeah.

No, but I did it on Twitter and he responded. Did he? So I offered.

What did he say?

Blow him like a trumpet. If he fixed the algorithm. And he admired my dedication to getting the algorithm fix fixed and he said he'd work on it. So I'm just waiting to be invited for band practice with Elon. But, yeah, free speech. But, you know, he is a tech bro at heart. Come on, he's a genius. So the algorithm, that AI is his, is his whole world. What he doesn't have is emotion and a human emotion necessarily at the forefront. So, no, I would say, of course, X has been so delightful bringing people back and making it a place where people like Me can speak, but now it's controlled by an algorithm. It is not technically for me a free speech platform. I preferred the model where your followers followed and you had an audience that you created and built and what do.

You think of Tommy Robinson?

You know, Tommy Robinson. If I. If. You know, I'm so happy to have lived this long. One of the things I'm so proud of, to have lived to see was Tommy Robinson's Unite the Kingdom rally in September this year. And if I could have had the.

One with a hundred thousand people in.

There, according to the one, only three people turned up, I heard. I mean, I don't know, according to the Guardian. In fact, it was just me. I was just there on my own. So if I could have only lived or given a choice to see two or three things, things, you know, that rally that day, I just so, so proud of what he did and. And just to be very clear, the actual rally itself, amazing. But the stuff beforehand, for him to pull that off, the amount of. He got pushed back from the original venue. He got told he couldn't have it by the London, Westminster, whatever authority. I don't deal with these people. He had entire groups working to make it happen. The setup, the rig, the screens. I don't know if people know about sound. Sound is the most difficult thing to get right. In theatres, particularly theaters that are dedicated to having audiences, sound can be a nightmare. He got a sound to happen in the middle of London on a chaotic day. He got a live link with the most powerful, arguably man on the planet, certainly the richest man. And he was able to sustain a live conversation. I mean, it is unfathomable. But to come down that day, I'd done a show in Skeggy the night before Skeg Vegas, I got on a train. I don't even know. I hadn't been to bed seven in the morning. As I walked on the train, the whole train erupted. All our people, all the way down. Our people got off the train. Well, a guy had to wake me up, actually, Embarrassingly, it was disgusting. And I got off the train, every single train, unloading people, our people, every single bridge, every. I mean, so emotional to see the capital city like that. And so that to me will always be whatever happened. Tommy, that is the biggest tribute. There's only one man that could have pulled that off that day and it is Tommy. And even in the little moments, so walking next to him, you know, there was one point where the crush was real. Like, luckily Ant Middleton was on hand with his mighty cock. To save me. I mean, not that I rubbed up against it on purpose or anything, but there was a moment in that crush and Tommy was still. There was security were trying to clear the path and Tommy was still going gentle, gentle. There are people kept steady because security obviously saw the threat and were getting a bit feisty and he was calling them to. To be gentle with people. And those moments, to me, I'll never be able to adequately articulate what a formidable and brilliant moment he created in British history. And I think he will always go down in British history as a sort of a Robin Hood for the people. A people's favourite. Yeah.

My son came home from school and said, dad, there are 58 genders. How many genders do you think there are?

There are two genders, male and female.

Now, now, last time I asked you that, we lost our TikTok account and got tens of millions of views. So are there not two sexes, but as many genders as one wants?

There are two biological sexes. There are also two genders, male and female. That is the end of it. It is the beginning of it and it is the end of it. It and to all children, anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you. There are only two. It does not mean that we cannot be great friends with people who believe otherwise. There are many people out there who believe many things. You can believe, if you like, that you're a sausage. But if you chop the legs off a dog, it doesn't make it a sausage, now, does it? You can believe, believe that you're now Brenda when you used to be Brian. You may have your cocked tucked so neatly between your legs that your vagina is higher and tighter than mine will ever be, but it still doesn't make you a woman. My flange at this point is headed south. People accuse me of being trans. I'm not. But these days I do have to decide which way to dress. I have to pick, left or right. I would argue that my issues with my sexuality are greater than those people who say they identify as trans. There is no such thing as trans. There are people who are mentally unwell and children. If you're going to listen to anyone, listen to Auntie Katie. Two biological sexes, two genders. That's probably going to cost you your Instagram account.

I was just thinking the same. Do you still hate fat people?

I never hated fat people. People. I never hated them. I am proud. If you're a chamber wamba, you want to shove your face in the fridge and eat the whole goddamn thing. I applaud you, if it makes you happy, it helps you get through the day. We've all got a vice, but I drink red wine.

But I don't think anyone who's really fat is really happy, are they? I used to be fat. I was very unhappy about that.

Some people say that they're fat and happy. Fair play to them. Are they, though? I don't know. It's not my business. Not your business? If you're fat and you just want to be that way, go for it. I know. Noticed that many people who said they were body positive. I'm so body positive. But the minute that Mounjaro came along, oh, you weren't so body positive anymore. You were just scared of losing weight. Now you can inject yourself in the ass, suddenly you're not body positive anymore. Have you seen Lizzo right now? Lizzo used to be 55 times the size of her flute, right? She made that flute look like a piccolo. But since she's been on Mounjaro, suddenly the flute's grown because she's got so much smaller. So I had nothing against fat people. It did piss me off if fat people weren't accountable for it. You're fat because you're fat. Fat. It's not because you've got big bones and it's not because it runs in the family, because, let's face it, nothing ever ran in your family. That's why you're fat. So it's about ownership. And the problem with the NHS is it takes away accountability and it takes away ownership. Oh, I've got type 2 diabetes. No, you're just a fat cunt. Oh, I need a new hip. Well, then pay for it yourself. You paid for enough chocolate bars. Buy your own hip, that kind of thing.

It's been really nice to be on social media.

Goodbye to Rob Sinstone. Goodbye to. No, it's okay because you're not saying it. I am.

Well, no, it's not, but. Because obviously I get taken down, I don't give a.

No, maybe it's a blessing. Maybe if you're not supposed to be there, it's a way of freeing yourself to be in public places.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe, like. I don't care. Care. One thing I want to challenge, though, and this isn't you, but fat and happy. Well, then why would they take the jab if they were happy? And do they really know the consequences of these jabs that are suppressing your hunger?

So that's. I mean, this is so interesting. It's a conversation that's not been had is the lie of fat and happy and the lie of body positivity. And no one has yet challenged these people because what they actually did, the body positivity movement, did the same thing as the trans movement. It makes it acceptable. It gives you a comfortable place to inhabit instead of dealing with your actual issue. So instead of dealing with the fact that you've got a weight problem or a weight issue, it tells you, oh, no, you're body positive. And then it gives you a comfortable place to stay. Say harmed. You are harmed and you need help. But instead they are kind of taking you captive and holding you hostage in a place where you are harmed. That's very dark. And that's precisely true with people who believe they're a different gender or a different biological sex or whatever you believe. It doesn't matter to me. You are harmed. You need help in a really helpful positive. I mean that kindly. But these people are holding you hostage, saying, no, it's okay to believe what you believe. It's okay that you believe that you're a dog today or a rabbit or a furry. They're being held hostage in this place of mental unwellness. And because our society is held hostage to these people, you can't call it out, although it's starting to be called out. And what Monjaro did for me, it's not a fat jab. It's actually an erosion of the ability of the body positive movement to hold people hostage because the fat jab has acted like a hole in a dam where they're starting to trickle out and the trickles become a flood and suddenly, oh, no, I didn't want to be fat. Oh, no, I don't want to be huge. Oh, I feel so much better, smaller. So the fat jab has been able to bust through the lunacy of body positivity. What we don't know, and obviously what I fear, is the actual effects of injecting yourself to lose weight. And people are being sold a lie. They're being sold that it suppresses your appetite, which sounds very. Okay, that's okay, then I'll just eat a bit less. That's not work. That's not what is actually happening. This is, you know, it's a diabetes medication to do with insulin. And I know that it's not just about suppressing. That's the line they use to market it. So I think that downstream of this, we're going to see bad fallout. And women are already talking about it, and men. But I think that the fat jabs have definitely done a huge favor in eroding the hold that the body positivity mafia had over people. And I think one of the other thing that's become very clear to my audiences in this tour that we just did, there's a bit where we did about fat stuff. And anybody on Manjaro and people would willingly volunteer because they knew they were amongst friends. How much have you lost? Three stone. Do you feel better? Hell, yeah, I feel better. And the audience would applaud it gave a lot of people. The fat job has given a lot of people a good feeling about themselves. And there's a real truth in that, isn't it? People want to feel better about themselves. In order to be able to cope with the world, you need to feel better about yourself. And I guess that's always been my kind of message, even with my fat story. When I put on four stone on purpose, the kind of message that really came out of that in the end was if you feel a bit better about yourself, you are a bit more capable of dealing with things that are tough because life is tough enough. So, yeah, I. I think the fallout from. From. From the fat jab will be bad.

What's the state of feminism right now?

I think feminism is having a strong comeback. I'm excited for strong feminism. The sort of feminism that I've always kind of like to stand for, which is women taking control of their own lives, being ballsy in their own damn way. Whether you're a studying lesbian, whether you're getting married, married for the third time, age 70, women on their own terms, being as happy as they can be, that struck me as kind of the ultimate feminine ideal. And the idea that we aren't going out there being feminine, wanting stuff because we're a girl. So I don't want special treatment because I'm a girl. I don't want to need to cry to get what I want because I'm a girl. I don't want to complain that I haven't got a job because I'm a girl, or I've been treated differently because I'm a girl. If I can't get that job, well, maybe I'm too much this for you, but on my terms, I'm going to find what makes me happy. And I think that kind of strong feminism is really back. I think attractive women being strong in their own way, strong parents, strong mother, strong whatever is back. And I love that you can be, you know, this. This strong woman who lives really kind of what would be seen as a weird Life and that be seen as really strong. Wrong. And we don't need to fit into this. Oh, she's a power woman because she has a job and she looks after the home and she's married. It's not that model anymore. It's just being happy, being a woman and cracking on. And I just love that. And this whole needing to be the ugly feminazi, that's gone. Thank God. That whole guardianista feminazi 2.0 where you just was like, what the O stands for? Oh, my God, is that really a woman? You know, the ugly Bianca thing, the I'm strong feminist, could all men hate me? Or oh, I'm a lesbian because I had no choice because men didn't want to come near me. You know, that's gone. And I'm starting to hear, very good sign. A businessman would start to hear, I don't know, orders coming in. But I'm starting to hear the click clack of heels on pavements again. And that's, that's joy to my ears. Because for too long, I know I've got flat shoes on, but I have got heels in my back bag. For too long, women have worn flat shoes and the clickety clack of heels. I find heels incredibly erotic. If I was a man, I would totally want to bang someone in heels. So I'm going, I think that might be my new thing for 26, actually. I might be the heels movement. But also it's really hard to be fat in heels. Right.

And what's the state of masculinity right now?

I do. Oh, well, masculinity. I went through a very upsetting, deeply upsetting phase. Kids going off to university, the hands getting ever softer, blokes wanting to go into programming or tech. You know, my concern, always just this sort of soy, asexual male. And I still see them out with asexual women. And I find it to be utterly repugnant. But I've seen the rebirth. Maybe it's because I work near farmlands, I have a farmer for a daughter, surrounded by a lot of farmers. But also I get at my shows, you know, a good kind of chunk of my audience. About 30% of my audience are young blokes, which is obviously completely understandable. But young lads now turning out with their lad mates at my shows, 18, 19 year olds, lads who can do stuff, men stuff, fix stuff. I am so excited you see the level of erotica I've reached. The sadness for me is that I went from milf, which your viewers might need explaining Mother, I'd like to. Or is it mummy? I don't know. I saw the other day on my feed gilf, which I thought, oh girl, okay, that's cool. Girl, I'd like to. It's not, it's granny. I've gone from MILF to gilf, which is either that my audience have got much younger or I've got a fuck ton older and at least I've still got the ilf. But you've got to hold on to that, that. But I believe strong, strong males are back. I, I see it coming. And women know nature dictates certain things about women. So if you move away from the ugly feminazis who want a soy that can't ever have a kid because we're never going to have a kid because we might have to share our egotistical lives. If you go back to women who are gorgeous and attractive and know what they want, they will one at bloke who can mend a car, climb a ladder and has a huge. I mean these were fundamentals throughout time, but after the car was invented, what's.

Your biggest mistake or regret?

Oh, golly, regret. I, I honestly, I don't, I don't know about regret. I don't know about regrets, you know, like shame or guilt or regret. They're all like huge. The things like, you know, people carry them around like, you know, like, oh, here's my shame and here's my regret and here's, you know, my self pity and they carry them round and they just weighs you down. Right. So I try not to think like that. I definitely don't think get shamed. Someone said the other day, oh, you know, aren't you the woman that banged a married man in a open field? Yes, I was, yes, thank God. And if you look at that picture, I look hot as hell. Glory be for that girl. But mistakes, oh my God. I've made more, more mistakes than I've made smart choices. Biggest one, my biggest regret is that I don't have my radio show. My biggest. What would I do anything for now? Would I give up everything to have my radio show back? Yeah.

Why don't you launch your radio show?

No, it's not, not the same thing.

No. You could say what you want. You have full autonomy now.

I don't want that. Yeah, I want my radio show. I want, I want to travel up on a Saturday night. I want to stay across the town where I walk and walk and walk so I pick up how London feels. I want to walk back across the bridge at 5:30 into LBC Studios at 6. And I want to do the three hours prep for my show, feeling the place, being inside the heart of the devil, knowing that everyone in that place hates me and loathes me. Producers trying to stitch me up, staff deleting my clips, them hating it when that board in the LBC offices spikes. When my show starts and people start listening in, I want to be back in the heart of London, in the heart of the place where everyone there cannot stand me. But listeners listen to my show more than any other. It's not about doing a radio show. It's about planting the flag for decent, ordinary people. I want that back. And I regret that I don't have that show anymore. And I let a lot of people down by getting fired from that show.

Can you tell us about your tour?

I don't want to be one of those people that comes on things to promote things. So.

Yeah, but I asked you.

So can I just say then, thank you. 20, 2026. 20, 2026. How many 20s? 20, 20, 20, 2026. No, can I just say, my free range tour 2026 begins April 9th and it ends sometime at the end of July, beginning of August. And if you go to katiesarms a r m s.com that's where the tickets are. And those venues are the venues that are trusted. They will hold. When people try and cancel them and pressurize them and threaten them, they still hold. They say, we'll let our people vote with their feet and they sell out. And the more nights that you'll sell out, the more nights that we'll add. And I want to tell people, oh, I. So this is my big passion project and I want to tell people that them turning up to this is a fight. You wouldn't believe how hard this fight is for me to get these places and what I do to make them whole. But the fact that you guys turn up and buy tickets is so powerful because some of these places, when they've been on the point of saying it's not going to happen, these guys sell it out. And I say to people, you know, I hold this sword, but they are the sword, right, that allows me to hit. And I hold this baseball bat. They are the heft to the baseball bat. They are the power that I have, these audiences. So it's not about, like, financial stuff. It's about kind of me standing there on a stage as one person calling out to people who just want to have a night off and feel better. And people turning up and going, yeah, yeah, we'll support. So it's so much more to me than a tour. I can't publicize it or promote it anywhere, not on any media anywhere. And yet these places fill up and I cannot begin. If I could bottle that stuff and give it to every person, I would because it's magic. And every time after every show, I end up in floods of tears because it. There is no way of paying people back for giving you back a voice in a country that you love. So thank you for allowing me to talk about it. I'm quite embarrassed now and. But luckily I've got my own tissue set with me so everything's gonna be fine. But yeah, it means a lot more to me than just a talk.

Katie, thank you very much.

Thank you. You sod. I much prefer the ending where I died on my ass. Sam.