Meet The 25 Year Old Making MILLIONS Managing The Biggest OnlyFans Models

You own the biggest OnlyFans agency in the UK.

Yeah, it's cool.

Roughly, what are you turning over a year?

Between five and seven a month.

Million. Million.

Yeah.

I just taught myself to see society's problems. Nudity, lingerie suddenly become Monday morning.

I want to talk about pimpology.

It's just, it's everything that we pitch against.

And what do you think of Lily Phillips and Bonnie Blue?

They're wiping the floor with the industry. It's vanity. It's not sanity.

Where do you think we are in the world with masculinity? Really?

The banking space is a nightmare. It's not high leverage to be ahead as a first mover. It's high leverage to stay ahead.

A top bit of advice on growing a business fast. What would it be?

Figure out? First and foremost.

Is running an OnlyFans agency a legitimate business or is it exploitative of women?

I think it's a totally legitimate business because it is a opportunity to provide a service to clientele that demand it. This industry ultimately wouldn't exist if there weren't a demand from creators for support. I also think that the relevant thing here is that creators have the chance to pick and choose who they want to partner with. And so.

So when you say creators, you mean people on webcams?

Yeah, OnlyFans creators. Right. They have the complete freedom to pick and choose who they want to partner with and they have total control of everything. So I think an exploitative environment would be one that eliminates the freedom of choice for the person involved. But we don't have that.

So what you're saying is they can just walk away and leave you and not use you if they want?

Totally. Totally. So for some agencies, that's not the case for tdm, it absolutely is. You know, our contracts are zero days. We have lifetime trials. So for any creator that wishes to work with us, whether they're, you know, three weeks into their journey making a thousand dollars a month, or whether they're one of the biggest on the platform, they have the lifetime trial. Yeah, we see it as an opportunity for usp. Other agencies don't like that and they like the more exploitative method. But I guess that's where we've been successful.

Yeah. So how would what, what tactics do other agencies use to tie in these creators?

They.

You don't.

They would typically tie in through a tight contract.

Right.

One that tries to paint the picture that they don't have the freedom to leave. They have to commit to a certain term. Obviously the transparency is that the creator Holds all the cards anyway. You know, the reality is, what are you going to do? Take them to court and tell them that they should pay you their money? You know, at the end of the day, it's their body, it's their account, they make the money. Now, sure, you can provide a legitimate service, genuinely add value and they can compensate you for the cause, the totally fair business.

Yeah.

But if they choose to not participate, well, ultimately you have to withdrawal.

Right?

Right. So I don't see the point in these contracts anyway. But if an agency were to try, they would probably set up some sort of long term, tight knit contract that's unfairly favored towards the agency.

Right.

And why do they need you? Why does a model need you? Why don't they just do it themselves?

They totally don't. The transparency is that a career can be totally independent and do well. And there's many examples.

They must need you. How many cars do you have?

Enough.

Enough.

But how many cars? 14.

So you have 14 cars?

Yeah.

You're 25 years old.

Yeah.

Roughly. What are you turning over a year in this agency?

I base it more off a monthly basis because it fluctuates. But we do between 5 and 7amonth.

Million million to do 5 to 7 million of revenue a month?

Yeah.

You're age 25.

Yeah.

So they must need you. You say they don't need you.

You can certainly look at it like that. I mean, look, the transparency of it is we add a lot of value that they can't add by themselves. And it's not necessarily that we're better or anything like that. It's simply just that a team outperforms an individual. And so if you put 10 people into the same tasket, you put one, the 10 will always win. So I think where the creator benefits is that for every minute of day that they are doing administrative tasks, account management tasks, anything boring that's not creating content, they are losing their time.

Right.

Because the one thing that they can never automate is producing content. So them spending every waking minute working on content and relieving the duties of everything else is where they can buy back enough time to grow their business.

Right.

So your agency doesn't generate new fans for them, it just manages the back end business.

It's a combination of the both. It's the account management, the back end, the traffic.

Right.

We do the traffic not by producing the content, but by repurposing it on more platforms, assisting with the ideation and the fulfillment of that content. You know, take a creator that's done it for a year. They don't have the ideas, they don't have the creativity as much as they did sometimes. And they can sometimes be down in the dumps. So that little bit of motivation, that little bit of ideation, that little bit of scene setting, outfit selecting, it's all they need to get back on the feet and start shooting content again.

Right, so basically you're a content creation and administrative agency. Right, for models to take their clothes off, essentially, yeah.

Yeah.

I guess our USP is that we. We saw the urge for a morally fit version of that.

Right.

Because the space has its history and there are without doubt, you know, there's a perspective, isn't there, on what an agency might look like, especially with what we've seen on social media over the last couple of years. So I think what we thought we felt was necessary was someone who could come to market and offer something totally transparent with absolutely no risk, an easy return to home button and totally fair prices. That was the pitch. That was what we felt we felt the market needed. So we refused to take more than 50%. Even if we're doing 90% of the work, we refuse to work with creators that are new to the platform. You know, we will not bring a creator into the space, no matter how much potential we think they have.

So what you mean is you're not going out recruiting them?

Totally. We will not meet a girl on the street.

All right. What was the word you used for it before we started?

Pimpology.

Pimpology. That's a new word I've learned. So. So what you're saying is you're not doing what Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate were doing, which is going out with people and then recruiting them in that way.

I don't know what. What the texts were doing.

Right, well, they've been open about saying that they would go out with a girl and then recruit her into getting on the webcam.

Very different business models. Right. Totally different. Not even comparable.

So you've never had a girlfriend that you've got on the webcam?

No, we recruit entirely new creators that are already on the platform.

Right, so you're finding someone who's existing, doing it?

Yeah, yeah. Someone who already has an established fan base, Somebody who already has the platform set up and are generating revenue actively. There are obviously situations where we'll take creators on that are very small, you know, be it. They've only got 10,000 followers. Totally fine. We don't sort of objectify based on follow account or anything like that. But the one Thing that we mandate is that they've already made the decision to come into the space themselves.

I want to talk about pimpology.

It's just. It's a book. Which was. Which was what I came across only a number of months ago on Audible. Weirdly.

Right.

That was where I first heard the term. But my understanding of it is that it's just the business model for pimps.

Right.

Yeah.

It's everything that we pitch against.

Do you not worry about that? That people see you as a glorified pimp?

I don't worry about it. I recognize it's a reality because people generalize. And I don't feel, you know, I'm not bothered by that because I judge myself on my actions. And I can sleep at night knowing that I do the right thing. So that's the only thing I really care for. I don't believe you can please anyone anyway. So, you know, nobody really cares enough to actually formulate an opinion that changes their life. So I needn't feel to make decisions based on other people's opinions. Anyway. Yeah, I feel good about what we do, you know, And I get lots of messages from creators every day that we've helped them to buy a house, we've helped them change their life, we've helped them come out of hostile situations. You know, there's been many cases where they've been with previous agencies and they've got these horror stories. In fact, most of the sales calls I do are just trying to understand how to get them out of their current dangerous situation.

What happens? Give us some examples.

They're objectified, they're preyed on financially or sexually.

Right.

They're the two typical verticals. Either somebody is taking money away from them that was rightly theirs, somebody has sent a contract that's unfair and now they're stuck. Somebody has taken money that was meant to be, you know, paid out to them. In other words, they said they charge 50 50, but they control the finances and only pay you 20, or they don't pay you at all.

Right.

And that's why we set up the debt recovery business as well as a means to try and help these creators get back on their feet if they're in that position. So it's either financially or it's, of course, sexually, which is a sensitive case that doesn't need to be displayed. But for the most part, it's not necessarily even physical action. It's just girls feeling like they're being preyed on, which is exactly what they don't want you know, they're trying to. To make money and right or wrong, how you feel irrelevant. It's not right to make them feel like that.

And how did you in your mind feel okay with it? Like you seem quite matter of fact about it. It's a business. How did you morally be okay with it?

I judged it on people's outcomes. What did they get out of the situation? How do they feel about the situation? They make more money. They feel pretty happy about it. I see it as a positive.

Do you feel like they were going to do it anyway? So.

Well, we didn't make that decision for them, remember. So we didn't actually help them to make it anyway because they'd already made it.

So what you're saying is because you don't recruit them in I. E. You're not going out with girls and then totally. Yeah.

Then you just say, well I guess you're totally right. The perspective is they're here anyway. They're trying to make money anyway. They've already come to terms with the decision that they're going to be an only fans girl. They're going to be called this, that, the other.

Right.

That's already a decision that's been made. Yeah. So we intervene at the point where it's like they're trying to make as much as they can and they don't know how to. That's the only thing at play there. So yeah, we get involved in my eyes, that the best time because it's the least risk for them and the most what they stand to gain the most.

Yeah.

So you're 25, you're doing 5 to 7 million a month. I mean that in revenue.

Yeah.

Still impressive.

Yeah.

When did you start this business?

2021 was when we started.

Okay, so you were 21.

Yeah, right. @ the time.

And did you ever think you'd be doing 50 million plus a year in revenue by age 25?

Hard to say because actually when you get into the business model. Yeah, I totally did. Because you got to remember at that time it was a completely different space. You know, now the sort of OFM industry is quite popular.

What's OFM?

OnlyFans Management.

Right.

There's a lot of guys I'm not sure if you've seen, but there's a lot of guys popping up, sort of starting agencies. Because the barrier to entry is low. A little bit like when crypto became popular or when E commerce was popular or when forex was popular. Because the barrier to entry is quite low. A lot of people participate you know, we saw it a couple of years back with fitness coaching. Most people on Instagram in fitness, after hitting the gym for six weeks would change their Instagram handle to coached by X.

Right.

Because the barrier to entry was low and they could make money from it. So a lot of people started an agency because they figured, oh, there's other guys making money. All I need to do is set up an agency, away I go.

So is there like some kind of big boom after lockdown? I guess that must have been.

Yeah, totally. And be transparent after tape.

Right?

He kind of popularized the lockdown plus.

Tate equals explosion in the equals agencies.

Left, right, and center.

Wow.

And now there's a bit of a formula for it, right, that you fly to Dubai, you rent a Lambo, you. You pour some champagne on your Folex, and. And you. You caption your post wi Fi money, and there you are in OnlyFans agency.

So is that. That's quite common then, is it, for.

People to do that? That's the starter pack.

Yeah.

Yeah. It pisses me off because I actually own these cars and I have to defend myself. I've 20 years older than you, but someone told me that you can go to these places where they've essentially got the inside of a jet set up and you just rent the inside of a private jet. Like, what the. How does that make you feel? They're knowing that, you know, you see that you do it legitimately. When there's these sort of wannabes, I.

Think you can see through it. I also think that they stand to gain a lot less than they stand to lose by doing that. You know, it's. It's. It's vanity. It's not sanity. It doesn't actually assist you in any way. I suppose it depends on your motivators. You know, for me, I worked at McDonald's. Me and Cam, my business partner, we met at McDonald's. So for us, even being half of where we were in our eyes was great, and we were grateful for that. So I think actually for us, we were getting real benefit out of it. Retiring our parents, being able to take, you know, our parents on private jets. These are the kind of things that we've done. We've. We've done very sort of wholesome things that I think have really made it worth it for us. You could take all the cars away, you could take all the money where the business would close tomorrow. For me, it was totally a success because I got to do things with family and friends that were just never going to be an option otherwise. So I guess it depends on what you're motivated by and what you're in it for.

Yeah.

So how did you start? And was it your first business or do you already.

It wasn't the first business.

It was. I wasn't.

It wasn't, no. What you tried before, fitness coaching, Right, Yeah, yeah. Which was actually a success for me to be.

Right.

I started that in February 2018. So I was just 17, turning 18. Yeah, 18 the following month. And. And it was good. And I. I broke some records in the powerlifting space.

Right.

You know, I think I set around 10 world records, of which I don't know how many still stand, but at least sort of five or six definitely do well.

And these were under 18?

No, there were all sorts. So there were teen records, there were junior records and there were open men records as well.

Yeah.

Most impressively, I set some junior squat records as a teenager.

Right.

Which was cool. Cause I was squatting over 3, 300 kilos in competition. I think was 19 when I did that and I was 80 kilos.

Yeah.

So it helped me leverage an opportunity to basically pitch coaching services to whoever was listening.

Yeah.

And anyone who wanted to be big and strong, which was most people in my target market, they felt quite sold to and they were quite happy with that. And I charged fairly, as I always do. I always believe in that. And it was great and it was a good business and it funded some nice cars for me, even at that age.

Right.

But then Cam was also in fitness industry. Cam was selling, you know, liquid chalk.

Right.

For sort of like weightlifters gym.

When I say I know, obviously I don't use it, you can see.

Yeah, yeah. He was selling chalk and he was doing really well. He was importing from China, he was distributing it to supplement stores and gyms around the uk and he ended up sponsoring me. We knew each other anyway, as I said, we worked at McDonald's and Stuff and it was great. And we spent a lot of time driving around the uk and then it was at that time that Cam actually came up with the idea. He saw the gap, we looked into it and we saw it as a feasible business and that was how we started.

Right.

And how long did it take you to go from 0 to 5 million a month in revenue?

It was a slow start. It took relative to the sort of compounding growth that you can get. Because, I mean, nowadays, look, we can sign a career that does a million a month and add a, you know, 20% in a single month.

Yeah.

Whereas back Then of course you don't have that, that leverage in the industry. So it's, it was a slow and steady start. I mean the first couple of months were literally a couple hundred bucks.

Yeah.

Of which we hit 10k in the following May. So we were about six months in at this time because we started towards the tail end of 2021. So around May 2022 we hit our sort of first 10k.

Yeah.

And I remember being pretty happy about that. We were on a road trip at the time through Iberia and it was, it was a cool moment, you know, because I'd already done that with the fitness business. But this was the second time around. Yeah, it's not a fluke if you do it twice. So it felt great. And then the business kind of linearly picked up compoundingly grow month on month and we were doing $1 million by the end of that year.

Long term, do you want to be in this business?

Totally, yeah.

You want to be in it forever? Because a lot of people, I say a lot, I know a handful in this industry and actually a couple of our mastermind clients are creators, as you call them. And yeah, they want out as quickly as possible because they have moral issues.

I understand that. And when I say I want to be in the industry, I don't want to necessarily be in the management side of it. We see a broader and wider scope for TDM in adult rather than just sort of management. Hey, I'll manage your page for a share of the revenue. You know, I think firstly that's a redundant business in a few years because there will be tools out there, there will be systems and processes out the box that do a lot of these things for you. Yeah, so I think it will be a redundant business and I don't want to sleep on that. So I'm not sure that's our long term focus. But we'll, we'll milk that until it's done. Because it's a cash cow, you can't sell it or if you can, you do like a 2x annual EBITDA with earn out and no upfront cash. So it's not a great business to sell. So instead I would keep that as a cash cow. And what it's done is it's funded a lot of our other ventures. Our long term goal is to have an entire creator economy. So provide chartered accountancy services, banking services, legal services, content removal services, be essentially a one stop shop for adult space and broader and wider than OnlyFans, you know, whatever the platform, webcam, even Potentially look at physical services, you know, being a support network for people in the space to sort of say, hey, look, you're in this space, it's a hard time. You're probably struggling to bank, you're probably struggling to account. You probably don't know how to turn legally. You don't know if you had to get that content down from online, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess getting merchants shut down, bank account shut down must be really common.

The banking space is a nightmare for them. And it's just because they don't want the risk tolerance.

Right.

They each have an exposure to risk that they can't exceed. And. And so a lot of these high street banks over the last couple of years have adopted thousands, if not millions of adult businesses because it's become popular. Right. With all of these new creators or models and agencies that are popping up, the banks don't have the bandwidth to take it all on. So providing services to them is, in our eyes, a huge opportunity.

Have things changed since the whole pep. So politically exposed persons. Nigel Farage probably popularized it. I had him on the show straight after he got canceled by all the banks. And now it seems that a bank can just decide to shut you down if they don't agree with what you post on social media. Is that become an issue?

It seems so, because you have the chance to essentially determine whether or not you want to bank somebody at your institution based on risk that is subjectively defined.

Right.

You could just decide that. We feel it doesn't meet our clientele.

Right.

We feel it, it doesn't sit within our risk tolerance. And it's an opinion which in my view is unfair, especially when it's targeted towards certain people. I don't have the scope to provide opinion on celebrities and narratives and everything else, but I can speak for our industry and say that I don't think it's fair that we should generalize the entire space and say, hey, these people don't have the chance to bank. These people shouldn't be able to account. You know, I don't think that's fair. You want them to comply with hmrc, but you don't let them. You don't let them adopt the guidance, you don't let them work with somebody. So it's a tough time for them, and I think it's unfair. And so that's why we wanted to provide an entire economy for creators.

Right now we have a banking crisis, a potential global recession. If you'd like to learn how to cash in on the crash and not just survive, but thrive in challenging times. I invite you to join us at the Money Maker Summit Live. The link is robmore Live Forward Slash Money. For a very small upgrade fee, you can get special VIP tickets where you meet me personally. You'll get your book signed, there's a VIP dinner with six multimillionaires and bonus money mindset sessions, as well as the special three days on getting your tax bill down, your income streams up, My eight stages of building wealth, my formula for riches and much more content at robmore Life Forward Slash Money. The agenda, the details, the dates and the speakers are all at the link. Robmore.live forward/ Money. So I want to talk about your entire business model and how it all works. But first, I actually have a client in our mastermind who is a creator and she really struggles with her mental health. Reason number one is she has these moral quandaries, but the big reason is it's quite an isolating business. You're just at home doing what you do and you're not. Not really that social and doesn't really want to go around telling everyone what she does. Do you notice that with a lot of your creators, the girls, the models, it's difficult for their mental health?

Yeah, it depends where they're based. So there's sort of. If we look at a heat map, you'd see the hotspots. You know, here in the uk, the hotspot is Manchester and of course, London's a little bit of a hotspot for everything.

Why?

We don't know. There isn't really any sort of data on why. I mean, Birmingham, for example, is a very quiet alternative to Manchester. Here, right in the us, I'm not.

Going to guess why, but in the.

Us, we, we see, you know, Miami, we see Florida, we see Texas as, as hotspots, but we see places like New York and Chicago equally busy in population, but we don't see any real creators there. So I suppose it depends where you are, because if you're in the midst of all of these other creators, then it's quite easy to collaborate and meet them socially. And so I imagine it's not very.

Lonely and have people to talk to and Totally.

But if you're in the middle of nowhere and you know, your job is to stay at home and shoot content every day, then, yeah, you've kind of made it harder for yourself, I suppose. But the nice thing about these creators is that they have the chance and freedom to do whatever they want. And presuming that they've Partnered with an agency that are totally fair and give them the freedom they deserve, then there's no reason why they should be locked anywhere and socially isolated from anyone. They can do what they like ultimately.

Okay, so your business model and take it from the top, how you acquire the models and then kind of the system and how it works.

Yeah, so we do a few different things. We outreach. You know, we kind of set up a system early on where we just mass outreach and basically talk to creators that we think have loads of potential. We can see they're in the space and we just literally drop them a line of like, hey, how's things going? And open up some dialogue. Of course, this is a little bit sales, a little bit cliche. So of course the conversions here are slim, but we do it based on volume. But more importantly, nowadays we take on pretty much all of our clients from referrals. We're good at what we do.

Right.

And we have some of the biggest creators on the platform. And so you can imagine when a few of those creators say to their friends, oh, I recommend X, I recommend why People tend to take that quite seriously, and they at least will open up for some dialog. So that's typically how we acquire our customers or creators. And then really from there we take a step back and we look at the branding. Because a lot of creators, they just post, right? They just do it. You know, if they sort of say, like, what's Your strategy with OnlyFans? Their immediate reply is, well, I just post my content. You know, they don't think about it in the depth and breadth that they need to, to. To achieve the success. If we look around and we look at the big creators on the platform, you remember them by a certain thing. You know, there's something about them. I know you've got Bonnie coming on the podcast. You know Bonnie. So she, she's remembered for something. She's remembered for something very specific. But it's the numerical specificity, it's the shock value. If she just said, oh, yeah, I slept with a few guys, she'd blend in. But because she says, I slept with 1057, that number sticks in your head. And as I just didn't, I didn't forget the number.

Right.

Just quickly on that. Do you really think she did? I'm going to ask her myself, but I think that's like a guy every 30 something seconds. I mean, I could last longer than that when I was a teenager. How is that physically, do you really think?

I don't want to say that. It wasn't, because I'm pretty sure.

What do you believe?

Well, I'm pretty sure she streamed it.

Right.

I haven't seen the stream. I didn't count, so I can't say with certainty. But if she streamed it and advertised it as such, I would guess that she had done. If there were no stream, I'd probably doubt it as well because it does seem unrealistic. And even just the logistics of organizing that many people in one place is. Is a headache, isn't it? So if there weren't a stream to sort of validate it, then I would say, no, I don't believe it.

Okay, so, yeah, back to your question about your business model. You're saying that you're advising them on branding and becoming known for something.

Yeah, we believe that you'll be more successful if you don't look like an OnlyFans creator. So the more you push OnlyFans, the more you are seen as a pitch. You know, you come across as like, oh, she's doing this for her OnlyFans page.

Yeah.

So we try and pull away from that. Of course, we don't hide that it's there. Of course you can't, because you need the conversion. But we'd like to think of our creators as influencers, right? And there's a couple powerful things. One, content comes across incredibly authentically. But two, you get the chance to build something afterwards. So if they want us to decide, you know, in a number of months, I'm just done with this, you know, the mental stress or whatever it is, they don't want to do it anymore. Well, they've got a business, they've got a million followers who genuinely just like them. They're not just there because of the sexually objectified content. So we find that that's better for them as well. But content's authentic. It means something. It stands out. So we're looking for somebody who's willing to do something unique.

Right?

We're looking into their personality. We're trying to figure out unique talents, hobbies, interests that they can portray in their content. We want them to enjoy what they do. You know, we want them to produce content that they want to produce. So if they have a hidden talent for Fortnite or they've, you know, love hitting the gym, then that's what everything should be about. You know, they should go to the gym in their content. They should play Fortnite in their content. So we're always trying to convey who they are as a person in the way that they produce Their content. That's the biggest, that's the biggest ball mover in our eyes.

Right, so it sounds in a way like you're just talking about a general creator. They just seem to have a different product.

That's how simple it is.

And if you, if someone was starting a podcast or launching an information business, would you be saying pretty much the same thing?

Well, what are you passionate about? Because whatever you're passionate about, you'll have better discussions about on your podcast. You'll offer more value in your info product.

Right.

Doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't even matter if it's a business or not. If you're passionate about something, you'll be better at it. The same with the sport. So in my view, it's an absolute non negotiable to do something that you're genuinely passionate about.

So come back to the business model in a moment. There's a couple more questions I want to talk about you for a bit because one of the reasons we're here is because you're a very unique person and I've never met anyone who's doing as well in the agency world. In the space of OnlyFans models creators and is 25, there's three unique. I could have found anyone in one of those, but not all three. Is it lonely doing what you do?

No. And that's because. Really no. Because I believe in culture and team and that's what we've centered our business around. We've got a lot of staff and we pile them all into an office every day and we encourage them to hit the gym. We're currently building a new facility where people can train in a state of the art gym. They can use spa facilities on site. We encourage everybody to bring their car to work, especially if they're into cars. And we, we make it a culture.

Right?

There's ping pong this Paul, it's sort of that Google office like thing. But everybody there is there for a reason, right? If you want to get a job at tdm, you have to be vouched for by somebody within the company. You can't just apply or. Unless of course you're a super specific talent that we absolutely need and don't know. But the vast majority, especially of sort of the core business that have been there for years are best friends that we know. And so it's created a very nice culture where everybody gets on. But of course people care about the business as well. So there's quite a high standard that's been set which Means that people that come in have no choice but to A, make friends and B, meet standards. So we find that that's been a huge thing as far as building our culture out, which has transpired to our business growing very well.

So you also don't really like this work from home thing that's pervaded last few years.

It's tough because I totally get the, the reasons why it's effective. You know, it eliminates the need to rent. Office, as you know, is incredibly expensive nowadays. Buying or renting offices is not a cheap thing anymore. You don't have to buy your own hardware. There are many perks to it. And I also feel somewhat okay with the idea because we have to do it because we can't fit all of our staff into our current office. So we have to.

But you could potentially be all remote if you wanted to.

Totally. But I choose not to. And I think that, you know, that comes back to one of the key reasons why I want to do this. I'm a very team driven person. I totally agree with you. If it were just me in this business, I wouldn't work anywhere near as hard as I do. And I think it's that competitive nature as well. You know, most of our team are. I think we're probably 70 to 80, 70% guys. And there's a lot of competitive nature between us all. You know, it's who can be in the office first and outlast. It's that kind of hustle culture.

Yeah.

So I think that's transpired to our business growing and it's definitely transpired to me being happier and being able to continue working the hours I do every day. Totally.

Are you misunderstood at all?

Yeah, probably.

And how does that make you feel?

Again, totally cool with it. Because I do it for me. I do it for me and people around me and me and everyone around me is happy. So it doesn't bother me. But I think I'm misunderstood. Quite a stern faced, serious guy, you know, I'm very driven towards my goal every day. I'm not going to say yes if you want to go to the publisher. I'm not going to say yes if you want to just hang out without an agenda. Antisocial, strange maybe, or driven. Right, One of the two.

And what about, you know, people judging you for running an onlyfans agency? Do you get that a lot?

Do you get judgment weirdly before more than I do now? A lot. I've taken to the Internet in the last couple of years to produce a lot of Content to try and convey that actually you can still make money in the adult world by being a normal, corporate, respectful, moral person.

Yeah.

So that's helped in terms of people maybe see something before they judge. But it's also becoming more accepted, isn't it?

Right.

If you were an OnlyFans career five years ago, it was harder than it is today because the left has pushed an agenda that it's totally fine to be who you want to be. And in general, I think people have just become more accepting of. It's part of society now. There's enough money being made to justify this is just something that we're going to live with. It's not going to disappear. It will just change forms.

Yeah.

And is being an only fans model different to porn?

Yeah, totally. In the eyes of the customer because it's a relationship rather than a content. It takes out the transactional nature of it. It's more about them satisfying, you know, how they feel. Oftentimes the customers look to a creator as a means of someone to talk to, someone to make friends with, someone to talk to something about. Whereas with porn it's a case of meeting a certain need based on a transactional need. Right. So I think that's the difference.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's carry on with your business model then. So you, you outreach and get referrals to get your new onlyfans models. Then you help them with their branding and positioning to I guess improve building their audience. What else you do for them and how else does the business work?

As I said, the key concept is is the entire economy.

Right.

So whatever that creator needs to grow. So if they are on quite a tight schedule, then it might be handling a lot of the posting for them. A lot of the sort of intense, time consuming parts of being a creator. For some of the creators that are willing to work hard but maybe less creative, it's more about the ideation.

Right.

It's coming up with things that will move them forward in their journey as a creator. So it's very, very case dependent. It's also very dependent on where they are and the kind of person that they are. Because certain creators will have a very different style of content based on who they are. You know, if for example, I mentioned the two examples earlier with the gym and the gaming, right. If they're incredible at gaming, then they want to stream. We can't stream for them.

Right.

We can't actually do that. So it's a case of making sure that they've got everything they need. They can get as much out of that stream as possible. As many clips, as cool of a setup, as much ideation, as much gameplay ideation. So it's all about meeting the needs of that particular person for what they can do. Whereas the gym girl maybe just hits the gym all the time. And it's our job to make the content out of that.

Right.

They just record the sets in the training session, we do the rest. So it very much depends on who they are and what their needs are specifically.

Okay.

Do you own the biggest OnlyFans agency in the UK?

Without a doubt. In the UK for sure, without a doubt. It's actually public record, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because one of the main CRMs that host majority of the agencies are now public about a leaderboard, which is interesting.

Right.

Because it creates this transparent, competitive nature.

Yeah.

Which I think is great. I love transparency. I love competitiveness. So I think it's awesome.

Right. So how does it feel running the biggest business of your type in the country, age 25?

Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. I feel as though it's been the case for a number of years now. So we've consolidated how that feels and are more interested in maintaining it.

Right.

What, what can we do to stay ahead? Because getting ahead was easy because we were one of the first movers. It's not high leverage to be ahead as a first mover. It's high leverage to stay ahead.

Yeah.

So I think that's the main focus.

Okay.

So at 5 to 7 million a month, you know, you're at 60 to 80 plus million a year. How big can you make this business? How many could. Could you do? 200 million a year in revenue?

Is that.

Yeah, that's absolutely feasible. Because there are individual creators, you know, that can quickly double up what we do.

Right.

There are some creators on the platform that will make what our agency makes as a. As a single creator.

Wow.

So if you add a couple of those on, you know, let's say that they suddenly decide they want to adopt management services and we were able to pick up a few of those, then we would look at tripling, quadrupling our revenue with a handful of creators. And obviously creators of that size are only looking to the most experienced, the most decorated agencies. So it's a very real possibility that we'll pick up more of that as well.

Right.

So I absolutely think it's feasible. Yeah, totally. Whether or not it's doable realistically is a question of how good you are at what you do, which is what we dedicate every day to. So it's on us if we do and it's on us if we don't.

Yeah.

So would you advise anyone to start an OnlyFans agency in 2025 and beyond.

If it meets your morality and ethics and you're totally okay with it and the way that you do business is something that you can genuinely go home and be proud about and talk to your parents about then. Yeah.

So you talk to your parents about this stuff?

Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, they're completely cool with it and as I say, I'm proud of it. And so are they at first.

Were they a bit like Liam?

Yeah, maybe. But I think that's, that's natural for parents to question what you're doing anyway.

Right?

They would sort of. I mean, my dad was someone who has always had a very straight and narrow perspective. So when I first was considering going full time with my business, my fitness coaching, to the extent that I drop out of university, he would sort of sit me down and ask me the questions of like, is this really the right move?

Right.

He was totally on board with the morality and the ethics of the business that I was doing, but he still sit me down and make me realize the decision that I'm making do I think it's the right one. But I'm fortunate as well. I have great parents. You know, they're very open minded, they're very supportive and Cam's the same. So I think no matter what we did, if we feel like we're doing the right thing and we are proud of what we do and they would.

Be too, as it's an online based business. Are the margins quite high?

Yeah, they can be. Yeah, they can be. They can be at the expense of the creator as well. So this is what I kind of referenced and I mentioned you about the whole pimpology stuff earlier on because a lot of agencies will take to that literally as like, oh, well, there's 100% of the account earnings available here. You know, I'm only going to pay you 10 and you don't get to say anything about it.

Right.

And that's their business model. And they'll make great margins. Yeah, for how long is my question. But they will make a great margin. So you could make 90% margins if you want to, but I don't think you can make 90% margins of a respectable turnover.

Right.

If you want to push your revenue to where we are, you can't do that on 90% margins. Because the kind of creators that you need to Leverage. An agency growing like that just don't have the reasons to work with you at such stupid margins. So in my view it's short sighted and it will hold you back long term. I'd Sooner have a 50% market of or a 50% margin of 5 million turnover than I would a 90% over 50k. But yeah, I mean typically it's totally fair to justify 50, 50 margins with creators. We will do less than that in some cases as well. I think it totally depends on where we, on how much we do. If we're only handling a few things for them, charging 50, 50 is not fair. So we'll charge way less.

Right, okay. So you're pumping in this five to seven million a month. Obviously your net is lower than the gross. What are you doing with your profits? Are you investing in other assets? Are you launching new businesses? So you're buying some cars, you just spunking it all. What are you doing with all the money?

We absolutely enjoyed it to begin with. We never got into sort of partying or drugs or alcohol or anything degenerate. We've never done that before. We had money and now that we do.

Right.

That was never an interest for us. Cam hasn't drank in best part of a year. I've never been a drinker. In fact, I had years of drinking nothing at all for weightlifting. So we're not into that. So the whole sort of spunking stuff.

Yeah, but you still spunk it on private jets.

But I don't think they're spunking it because a private jet, realistically.

Yeah, but you can get a good business class seat with your British for.

The same price in some cases.

Right?

A private jet doesn't have to be that expensive. You can fly on a charter jet for five grand if you want to.

Or well, from here to Jersey maybe.

Yeah, maybe.

You're not going to get to Dubai on that, are you?

No, but then why would you need to fly, why would you fly charter to Dubai?

Right?

It's business class is comfier.

Yeah, yeah, that's my point. And business class, you get the, you get the flatbed. Business class is you rack up your air miles.

Business class is totally better long haul. I don't know what kind of idiot is flying to Dubai on a private jet other than someone who's trying to flex. But it's a pointless flex because you can get the same picture flying here to France.

Right.

So we've adopted private jets as an experience tool.

Right.

I've done three in my life. I've Done one with Cam and the team, which was our first ever experience. I've done one with my mom. I've done one with my dad.

Right.

They're an experience thing. Yeah. They're not a flex thing. They're not. I'm too good for normal planes thing. That was me having a moment of my lifetime with my family.

Right.

Yeah.

Which is totally justified in my view. Totally worth it. Not spunking it. I'd do it again.

Yeah.

But aside from that, I mean, we don't even always fly business. Right. I fly economy a lot of the time. I'm totally cool with that as well. I'm a normal kid like everybody else was.

Yeah.

So the spunking stuff has been the cars. Right. That's where we've blown a lot of money. We've been quite selective. We pick cars that make sense, you know, we pick cars like a Pista, and we pick cars like an 812 super fast that hold money or even maybe appreciate long term. So, again, we're not being idiots about it, but we're definitely enjoying it.

Right.

And I think that's something that everyone should go through because it helps you move on. Because once you've done that and you've got the materialism out of the way, which we've absolutely done, you can.

Until the next.

When you ask yourself what.

Until the next supercar comes out.

But then it becomes purpose, though, because there's only so many supercars before. Eventually you're just kind of chopping and changing the same amount of money. You know, let's say you buy five to 10 supercars.

Right.

You don't need to keep buying them. You'd likely just keep swapping them around.

Yeah.

So you're in. The actual net investment into that would never increase. So then you ask yourself the question of, like, okay, well, what am I doing now? Where am I going? And then I think you find purpose at that point.

Right.

You set your real destiny. Like, my dream is to run a public company, and I'm happy to say that on camera. Right. That's what I want to do. Whether or not I end up doing it depends on how it stacks up for me.

Yeah.

Do you. Do you think you'd get investment into a business model like this? Could you take it to the market?

I don't know. I don't know where this business model can go.

Right.

The perspective of the industry is already evolving tremendously in the last five years. I don't know where we are planning to take it either.

Right.

But if we're looking at the legal side and the financial side then. Totally. Yeah, I do. When I set that goal, it's not necessarily that I want to take this business public. It's just a dream of mine. Right. That's what I want to go. I'm very interested in corporate culture. I'm very interested in running a business. I'm not motivated in the slightest by a beach, by peace, by freedom, even just by sort of money in a bank. None of that. That was super cool.

Yeah.

I don't know if you noticed, but I was sort of just taking it all in. Like this is amazing.

Yeah.

Right.

I'm motivated by big teams and motivated by amazing office spaces.

Yeah.

That whole having a big company, maybe it's the ego, but that's what it is for me.

Yeah.

Okay, so you're not really spunked it on women, drugs and alcohol. If spunked it a bit on cars. But some of them have retained the value.

Moderate.

You're a boring 25.

Totally. No, I mean right up.

Yeah. This is the way I think about things. But tell us some big purchases you've made.

Yeah.

Do you buy it? Do you buy property?

You do invest?

Yeah, we do. So we've gone into property. We. I invest a lot in personally into sort of stocks and cryptos as well.

Right.

So I am very much invested and invested diversely. You know, we've just gone into a huge office space which is obviously an expensive build.

Yeah.

You built, you're building it, are you?

Yeah, we've built it from the ground up.

Right.

So it's a 15,000 square foot facility. It's got spa, it's got full fledged gym, you know, with state of the art equipment. I reckon the equipment's worth 200k which we've recently invested into.

Right.

Spa facilities. You know, this multi floor, fully glass, soundproof something that you own. Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. So. So that's obviously very expensive.

Right.

And look, you've got to remember that we've only been in it for a few years, the margins aren't 100% so naturally, I guess we're still actively finding ways to spend the money as well.

Right.

We haven't sort of been in it for 20 years where we've got a system in place for what we do with our money. It's changing so fast that, well, first it was what can we do with family? Then it's what cool cars can we buy? Then it's about experience and travel. You know, I've been to 55, 60 countries at my age. Which is. Which is cool. So traveling has been an investment and now it's the office space. Right. And these things generally tend to take a lot of that investment at the time. But where that goes in the future is still to be determined.

So of your 14 supercars, you're allowed to pick three, and you've got to give the rest to me. Which three do you keep?

Well, I definitely wouldn't be giving you the Pista.

Okay.

Because I think it's an incredible drive.

Yeah.

Yeah. And they didn't make many of them, did they?

No, they're quite rare. Yeah, they're quite rare. Yeah.

I think it's 488. Is it 488? Yeah.

I think it's got the ability to follow the trajectory of the Speciale. It could run away a little bit. They're currently sat. I've paid around 300k. Yeah, they're currently sat around that. I think they'll go maybe 323, 30 in the next year or two.

So.

I can't. I can't have that.

No, that one's absolutely not coming.

Okay, fine.

812. Super fast. Because the driving experience with a Novatech exhaust and the comfortability of the 812 is incredible.

You don't think they're an overrated, overpriced car?

No, because it's. Again, it's an experience thing. I also think they're relative. They're going to consolidate in price relatively.

How much do you pay for yours?

220 odd.

Oh, okay.

So I think they'll sit and.

Do you think. Do you think they'll go up long term?

I don't know about go up. No, I'm not. I'm not. Not invested financially into that one, but I don't think it will lose a lot either.

No.

And then we're currently in the process of buying an SBJ roadster.

Okay.

So if I had that, the one.

I said there's no point in having.

It's not.

I don't like it. It's just we were talking and I've got the. The standard Aventador.

Yeah.

And it's. What is it about half the money? I mean, I'll probably get, what, 200 for my Aventador. What's an SVJ now?

550.

550.

So why the financial return?

Right. So. So you are doing it as an investor.

Yeah. That one's one that will probably drive less because I. I genuinely see that tracking to a million. And we'll have one of the best examples. You Know, roadster, very low mileage, desirable spec, comfort seats. So I think if you pick the right one with the lowest mileage, they're the ones that will track. I honestly think that could return us a good, a good long term investment. And it's also super cool, you know, and we could absolutely do a couple hundred miles a year in that.

Yeah.

You know, you can truck it into Monaco and you could do 50 miles in a day and have the day of, you know, a really cool day.

Yeah.

Without really harming the mileage. So I think it's a good investment. And because we'll only use it for business marketing, it's, it's about qualifying, it makes sense for the business.

Right, so do you own some of these cars within the business then?

Yeah. So we owned them all personally to begin with because the company wasn't old enough to buy them.

Right.

Because we're young as well. So. Yeah, you know, the company was only a year old, it didn't have that many years of accounts.

Yeah.

But fortunately we're registered in the UK and we pay our taxes. So for us it's quite easy now to leverage that company.

Right.

So we are moving everything over to the company that we can do anyway.

Which means you're owning the cars before tax, not after tax.

Yeah. So only the cars that meet criteria. Obviously you can't just put the car in. The company has to meet certain criteria.

What are the criteria?

To be transparent.

It.

It's not something I know inside out, but it's oftentimes to do well. If the car meets a certain weight limit, if it's to do with, if it's electric, if it's used entirely for business purposes, then of course you can use it as a company car without the need for benefit and kind.

Yeah.

Whereas if the car is just being basically used personally, but you're using it through the business, obviously it doesn't stand. So we do still own personal cars.

Do you feel you rich?

Depends how you define that. I can absolutely do what I want. So. Yeah.

So basically you've got enough money that if someone wants you to do something you don't want to do, you can.

Say, yeah, yeah, totally. But I think you, that, that comes a lot easier now. I think there are a lot of things that give you sort of cub ability, like status, social following, being in shape.

Yeah.

A lot of things give you the, the mental capacity to have that mindset.

Yeah. But if you, if you don't have the financial power, then you're stuck, aren't you?

Yeah, maybe a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah.

And was there a time when you felt like, now I'm rich. So I'll give you an example, right. I asked Andrew Tate this question and he said, bugatti now, private jet now. We just ordered a super yacht now. But when I know I can order a $900 steak and not even look at the price of a steak, that made me feel rich. Because sometimes it's not the most expensive thing you buy.

Yeah, yeah.

Like he spend ten grand on a dinner and not even look at the bill and he says he'll order six plates of food. And he's. A bit of that, a bit of that, a bit of that and bit of that.

The reality is, most restaurants and sort of day to day expenditure is any isn't anywhere near as expensive as a lot of the big purchases that you have to think about. So it does become quite casual to go out for a dinner that's a few grand because, you know, when you run a six figure payroll every week, then quickly you're making things work for the payroll, for the vat, for the corporation tax. You know, these are the things that you worry about. These are the problems that you're scared of. The finance payment on a car.

Right.

Like my piece does like three grand a month.

Right.

It's less than a member of staff, but if I hired a member of staff, I wouldn't care.

Right.

You wouldn't even notice.

No.

So I do feel a little bit like that because no matter what car we want to buy, we can. It's more a case of like logistics. We don't have the space to buy them.

Right.

Yeah.

So it's definitely a case of you money in that sense, because it doesn't mean that much to us. But I don't feel like that aligns with my personality, really, as you can see.

Yeah.

But there must be a moment where you.

There's been some great moments where. Yeah, there's been moments where I've been very grateful and kind of looked around and thought, this is cool. Specifically the private jets. Right. I don't get those out of my head. Meant they're a stupid expense and they're worse than a business class flight.

Right.

But there's something about it.

Right.

You're the only ones on the plane. It's cool. And as I say, I took my dad initially, we flew from Gran Canaria to Portugal. Nice, easy flight, couple of hours, relatively inexpensive, but an experience I'll never forget.

Right.

And on that trip, Cam also took his parents. We Went with our parents. It was great. They were with us for a business meeting and then we flew back to Portugal for a few days. And it was such a good experience. I remember sitting up there, drinking whiskey, looking out the window as if to say, like, this is. This is something I won't ever forget. And I haven't.

Yeah.

And then I also took my mom away for a birthday. I took it to Paris. We were on a jet. So that was just me and her and then my brother and sister. And it was an amazing experience as well. And we had the chance to live, you know, the pinnacle of good life. And again, it was relatively inexpensive. So for me, their experiences I'll never forget. And they definitely were moments where. Because again, the price doesn't really matter.

Right.

It's like I don't even know what they are. Like 5 to 10k. Like maybe 10 grand. I think it was relatively inexpensive.

Right.

A couple of staff.

Yeah.

But what an experience. So I definitely think there's an element of fuck you money, but I think it's easier to get than you think. You don't need to be able to order a shoe on as tapestries or whatever to feel like that. If you can just pick the bill up, even if it is a few hundred quid, you can pick the bill up and pay it without looking. That's a good feeling.

Okay.

And what do you think of people like Lily Phillips and Bonnie Blue? Like literally just spra sex everywhere?

I think Bonnie and Lily are exceptional examples of branding. I really sort of admire those.

So do you think they're as much marketers as they are?

Totally.

Totally.

I don't have an opinion on their. Their personal decisions because I'm not a girl and I'm not involved. It's not up for me to decide.

Right.

That's fine. Yeah. But you're allowed your opinion.

Yeah, totally. And I don't have an opinion on that. I have an opinion on them from a business standpoint. I think they're incredible. Businesswoman. Because the way that they've marketed themselves is in a way where they are impossible to ignore.

Right.

The key of marketing and branding is being rememberable. That's the entire objective. And they've done that incredibly well.

Right.

They've used numerical specificity. Insane shock value. So they're wiping the floor with the industry. I don't know what their account earnings are, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bonnie did a million a month.

Really? A million a month. And how old is she? She must be in her 20s.

I don't know how old she is, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did.

Right.

And that's just because I've done an analysis of Bonnie on YouTube before where I broke down everything that she did, all the content that she produced, how she found subscribers.

Oh, really? There's a bit of a piece of content on it.

Yeah. I've done a piece of content on her. There's a bit of work to be done as far as kind of getting the most out of everyone that views her content. But I think as far as capturing eyeballs, right, which is the first principle of any marketing framework.

Right?

Attention, then interest, desire, conviction, action, satisfaction. So she's got step one bang on.

Right.

And there's definitely interest there as well, because it's like she did what? And then you kind of interested in figuring it out. You're like, well, I've got to either validate it myself, go watch the video or look into a more.

Or what?

You're on a podcast, right? There's a bit of interest that the desire is up for. Up for debate. But she definitely creates enough attention and interest. So as far as the market, she's incredible.

And would you like to get a creator like her on your agency?

I imagine the logistics and the mental headspace are a difficult one to manage. I also would only be interested in working with the creator like that if they'd already made that decision. You know, again, our entire core belief system is that we don't change the narrative. We don't help them or make them do anything they weren't previously doing.

Yeah.

So, for example, Bonnie would be a great candidate. Somebody who was thinking about becoming Bonnie wouldn't, if that makes sense.

Right.

Yeah. Okay.

And how much does your top creator bring in a month?

Mid ones. So 1.5.

1.5 million a month.

But it does change drastically from like 1, 8 to 1.

So 1 to 1.8 million a month.

Yeah.

And OnlyFans creator brings in.

Wow.

Shall we? I've got Grok here. I've been using GROK a lot more. Should we see if it can bring out the top OnlyFans creators? Did I read somewhere once? Because when we launched our podcast agency, I was trying to talk about creators and how much you can make, and I think I used the top OnlyFans creators as just as an example, and I think Blac Chyna was making something like 200 million a year.

Yeah. There was a reported 20 mil a month.

I mean, you've got 20 mil a.

Month if you exclude Celebrities. Some of the biggest creators on the platform are people like Sophie Rain.

Right now, that is.

She reported 44 million a year. I believe it was 4 million a month, roughly. I think it's 44 million a year. And it was like a tweet, I think, but I believe it was. I actually don't. Haven't seen it.

Oh, 30 million plus. So Sophie Rain, did you say? Yeah, yeah. Iggy Azalea, 36 million.

These are all celebrities, though.

Babby. Bad Babby.

Yeah.

See, I don't know. I don't know any of this.

They're all sort of celebs, right?

Oh, Belle Delphine, she was the one that sold her used bath water, wasn't she? She made, like, something crazy in the millions. Just selling used bath water.

Yeah. I mean, she sold quite a few things.

What else did she sell?

Her doll. She recently made a doll with, like. I believe the vagina is modified the same way as hers was. It's incredible, really. I don't know how much it was worth.

Okay, now.

But it's not what it's made out to be.

Right?

Like, the. The more explicit you are isn't necessarily linearly correlated to the more money you make. In fact, oftentimes the opposite. The hottest girls tend to make the least money, which sounds crazy, but it's true. And it's because they aren't very well branded. The reality is it's so easy to find hot girls online because they're on porn for free in the millions of videos. So you can find a 4K video of beautiful women in the most explicit nature for free on pornhub. So why would you pay for that transactional content on OnlyFans? Why would you?

Right.

Because if it's just that they're hot, there's nothing unique about it. Most people are looking to solve some sort of unique problem. So taking to a creator that's incredibly specific, as I say, like goth gamer, something that they can bond with.

Right.

That's what sells.

Where do you think we are in the world with masculinity? Do you think that maybe masculinity has been challenged? Do you think as men we've become weaker? What do you think?

I think men have totally become weaker at this point. It's obvious, right? Even an idiot could see that. If you rewind a few years to where someone like Tate was first making content, it was a very niche group of people that saw the light, I suppose. Whereas I think now the mass population recognized what's occurring.

Right.

And they've made sense of a lot of the mainstream media's agenda, but I do think it's softened. I think we're coming back around. I think there are a lot of political and influential people who have shown enough for your average Joe Bloggs to see the reality of where we are.

Yeah.

I also think, to be honest with you, it's a lot of the time irrelevant. You know, no matter what your beliefs are or where you are in the world or what you think is going on, you can still pave your own way and you can still create an amazing life. Your life is what the environment that you facilitate.

Right.

So you can create whatever life you want. You haven't really got to worry about what's going on in the wider world until you've got enough leverage around you to care.

Yeah.

Because when you've made enough money, you have enough leverage, you've got a good enough network, suddenly those things become interesting. But they shouldn't be interesting. For the average guy, there's more important to worry about than what's going on in the political world.

As an OnlyFans agency owner, the biggest in the UK, do you find it problem getting yourself a good girl?

No, because I don't think that it changes who you are as a person. I think it's a job at the end of the day.

Right.

Like anything else. So if I worked in manufacturing, finance or adult. So the normal guy who goes to work.

Yeah. But women still want to know what you do and.

But they probably like that. It's interesting.

Right.

Because if.

Are you with someone at the moment?

Yeah.

And what does she think of it all?

Yeah. Totally supportive and.

And no jealousy?

Nah. Transparently happy. Because I'm still a good guy and I'm know on a mission to where I want to be in life. I think whatever you do for work is frankly irrelevant because I think as a guy you can be.

Is it though?

Yes. Because you can be an interesting enough character no matter what your industry.

Yeah. But as a. A guy, a male who can provide what you do is a key driver in what you.

But it doesn't directly relate to your income based on the industry.

Right.

You can be incredibly successful in any industry. So if I said to you, if we lay. If we said to a girl here, there's industry you don't like, but happens to make multiple six figures. However, you know, physically capable, you want them to be relatively generous. Family man, interesting character, mysterious. Or there's over here there's a guy who is in an amazing industry, he's a Super nice guy, you know, he's in a great industry that's perceived incredibly well by the public, but he doesn't happen to make much money. He's not really in shape, he's not very charismatic, he doesn't have big dreams, he doesn't care about family. They're still going to pick this one because there are things that carry more weight. So yes, the industry makes the difference, but it's way less significant than something else. So I think if you're a guy who's competent, you can solve problems in day to day life as well as business life. You're mysterious enough, you're interesting enough, you've got cool characteristics, you can drive well, you can, I don't know, shoot guns, fly planes. That's interesting to people no matter what your industry.

Okay.

Do you feel that your view of women has been somewhat tainted and soiled because of the agency you own? You've seen a lot of creators?

No, because I still have my own personal life, right. So I judge people based on that. And I think your average girl, right, hasn't necessarily changed based on this industry becoming more popular. So no, I don't think it has. My sexual exploration, maybe because you are incredibly saturated to it and numbed by it, right. You know, when you see it all day, every day, which of course we do, you suddenly become more numb to it. So nudity, lingerie, these sort of things that a lot of these normal guys find incredibly interesting and hot suddenly become Monday morning, but I don't think the relationship is affected.

What would you say is the best and worst thing about doing 5 to 7 million a month as an OnlyFans agency owner?

Well, the best thing is the freedom, right? Although freedom isn't my only goal and I'm totally, totally invested in the stress that comes with it because that's what I want at the moment. That's my goal. The freedom is of course a nicety. You can, you know, I'm a family man, right? I love spending time with my parents, I love spending time with my siblings. So being able to give back to them, being able to spend more time with them without any time schedule, without having to go to work, being able to buy cars, travel around the world, that's the benefit, right? Because it's awesome. And the team that I can build, bringing everybody that I care about into the office, paying them well, and being a part of a culture together, right? Moving towards a bigger thing, that's the, that's the pro. The con is the whole on my life look at that bill, look at that bill. I've got to pay that. I've got to do this. All of the boring stuff that comes with that. You know, I never thought that I'd be writing GDPR contracts and all this sort of bollocks when starting an onlyfans agency.

Yeah.

But any corporate business has to, you know, there's no. It's no different. So that's definitely one of the downsides. I also think it's the stress about what next. Always thinking about how can we improve, you know, not just in our industry, but in life, you know, like, where else can we invest? What's the next move? Do we do more businesses? Do we stay focused on the core business? Because I think people can get lost in that diversification realm. I need more diversification. I need to be risk tolerant. Right, well, okay. But at the expense of your core business, even providing that opportunity. Because if you've got a good business and you forget about it to do another one, you've lost all your leverage anyway.

Yeah.

So I think they're difficult things to manage.

Okay. I know you're only 25, but what's the biggest risk you've ever taken in your life?

Going transparent about adult. Probably because you adopt an opinion then for life.

Right.

Like I'm on this podcast talking to you about my exposure to working in adult. So there will be people who watch this who hate me for that without even listening.

Right.

They'll look at me, the first sentence.

Yeah.

We'll make sure with the title and the thumbnail that we justify me.

Right.

And so they'll look at the title and thumbnail and hate me. So that's definitely a downside.

But that could happen with anything, couldn't it?

I care incredibly. I'm too super indifferent to that. It means nothing to me whether you like me or hate me. So it's not a problem for me. But that is that without doubt the biggest risk. Because for a lot of people, that can knock them about.

Right.

Mental health, etc. I've been called things before, just casually, locally, in my local town. People who know me, people who went to school with me, they might say things, harmless stuff really, but I guess that's the risk.

Yeah.

Biggest regret, maybe not investing sooner, you know, maybe sort of doing all the travel and car buying before the sensible investing. But then again, that's also a life experience that I've learned from, so don't have too many regrets, really. Quite a happy person, very content with my situation, very driven for the future, very Motivated still. I still work 14 hours plus a day, and I'm totally cool with it. I can't wait to get to the office.

Right.

So I think I'm very content. So I don't have any regrets, really. Net worth, totally.

Do you invest in your own knowledge or do you just do 14 hours a day of work and that's your experience? Or, you know, do courses, read books, have mentors? What do you do?

Weirdly, I was. I wasn't against books, but I never found them interesting until about eight months ago. So I grew this business to a very successful place based on very little personal investment into education, which was never something that I was sort of against. I just never did it. It wasn't like I don't believe in it sort of thing. I just didn't bother. But I've started bothering, you know, And I took on a few books in the last few months. I average about a book a week on Audible, and I'm getting through good ones. I drive a lot. I listen to a book here. I'll listen to a book on the way back, and it's good. I'm taking on a lot of perspectives. I'm learning about different things. There's been some exceptional books that have actually helped me change life as well. You know, I think Hormozi's books are great for business owners as far as your offers, your leads, and more importantly, the sales that's coming soon. I think that Dan Martell's book Buying Back My Time really helped me with me and my SLT becoming incredibly good at utilizing time.

Shit where SLT is.

Senior leadership team.

Yeah.

So becoming incredibly good at utilizing time. Right. Helping them to buy back their own diaries. So there's a lot of perspectives that have taken on that have actually revolutionized the way we do our business based on books. So I'm now fond of them, but I don't read them because I hate reading.

But then listening is.

Listening is better for me because I think when you're driving, you're in a great place.

Right.

Cam always comes up with his best ideas. Driving.

Yeah.

Cam is very creative. I'm very much the executioner. He's very much the idea.

Right.

He comes up with something. Most of it. Some of it's amazing. And that is amazing ones I. Action. And that's kind of how we work.

Yeah.

So when he drives, he stares.

Right?

He stares and he thinks of stuff. When I drive, I listen and I act on stuff. And I think that that works really well for us.

Okay, so if you could give anyone a top bit of advice on growing a business fast, what would it be?

Find leverage and add value right before anything else. So don't worry about your sales, don't worry about closing strategies, don't worry about your pitch or your marketing or anything else. Figure out first and foremost how to solve a problem in an industry, right? Walk through society in a way where you observe what's going on. Why did I just spend £4 at Starbucks? Why did I just stare at that billboard? Why did I just speak to that person at that shop top floor, right? Observe why you do the things that you do. Observe why others do what they do. And once you understand society and where the problems are, you suddenly start thinking about ways that you can make more money, right? You might be driving through the M6 toll, tapping your car. Well, what did that cost to build? How long did it take them to return their investment, right? How could you make more money? Where's the upsell? How can you upsell something else? Is there a premium card?

Right?

When you think about all of these things, you suddenly look at life in a different way. And so I spend every minute of every day trying to solve problems in industries. And every so often, you land on a really good one. It was just the other day I was talking with someone and they were literally trying to convince me to come up with a business on the spot. Quite a weird thing. And they were like, well, make me a business about dogs. And I thought about it and I thought about it, I thought, well, what about if we had something like Waze, right? What about if there was a place where you could tag locations as a user for dogs that were. Because this was someone who was asking from, like, be good to the world thing, right? So they were saying, well, how do you help stray dogs? Well, imagine somebody was compensated by corporate donors, donation donators to. Every time they found a stray dog, they would, they would take a picture of it, make a note of the dog and the location. They would get a tip, right? Then the next person who feeds that dog would get the food funded and, and they would get their tip. And people on this app could freely locate and be funded to support stray dogs with corporate donators, which was tax relief for their companies, right? So in a matter of a couple of minutes, I saw the problem, found the solution, and whilst it's not a billion dollar business, it's ready to go. It's an idea, right? And it's more than a lot of people are working with. And the only reason I was able to come up with that is because I'm able to see a problem and figure out how to solve it. And I'm no different to anyone else because I didn't have any experience. No one in my family is entrepreneurial. I just taught myself to see society's problems. So the biggest bit of advice would be to start looking at life in a way where you observe where things go wrong and how they can be fixed. But also you observe where everybody's spending money. There are trillions of dollars being spent every day, which means there are a lot of good businesses, and there's trillions of upsells that are missed. And you can find that.

And then what mistakes are young entrepreneurs making? 25 and under. You're 25. What mistakes are the young kids making?

I think they get caught up in it a lot of the time. So they get caught up in sort of being the eye, you know, that being the sort of centerpiece, the center cog that turns it around. And they very much let that fuel their ego. And I find that there are a lot of successful guys that end up going on a journey to Ibiza or to Asia, and they start living a life that they haven't earned. Now, that might be fine because that might be where they want to go in life. I'm judging it based on my experience, which is become a billionaire. That's what. That's what I want to do. And I judge people who make these poor decisions for that goal. But it depends on what people want to get out of life.

Why do you want to become a billionaire? Because, let's be honest, no one gives.

A f K. They don't. They really don't. And I probably wouldn't give either, because it's no different to being a Sentai millionaire or, you know, a Deca millionaire is the exact same thing. Your life is relatively similar at all of those stages. But as I say, it's the same reason that I don't need to run a public company. I am free as I am, and I could totally live relatively well for the rest of my life just by compound interest at this point. So it's not that there's any sort of material return from it. It's just what I want to do. And I don't know why I want to do what I want to do. And I think you need to know why you don't want to do what you want to do. And you know what you might get there and decide I don't do anymore. And that's also Cool. Because that's what the freedom buys you the chance to do.

Yeah.

But for me, I'm motivated by the stress. I don't know what I'd do without it.

Yeah.

You know, without the office, without the team, without the problems, I'd feel lost.

Well, if you become a billionaire, you'll.

Get those 10x and I'm looking forward to it.

What about instead of wanting to become a billionaire, what about wanting to create £100 billion worth of value?

Well, that's the, that's the very way in which you get there, isn't it? Because everything is a reflection of the value that you add to society, whether you're an influencer, you know, it's how many people can take value, be it entertainment or information, if you're a sports person, it's how many goals can you score or whatever else. It's all. Everything is value exchanging.

Right.

And so if you want to become a billionaire, well, you need to exchange a billion plus dollars worth of value. Probably.

Probably 100 billion.

Yeah.

Based on your average expenditure and margin at that state.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's all about value exchange. That is the only way to do anything in life, to add value. You don't get anything out, you add value to society and it compensates you in return. That is the life we live.

So why do a lot of people, especially on the left, think that it's not the case, think that the billionaires should all leave and, you know, all these rich people should pay more tax?

Well, it's a coping mechanism. It's. It's a case of the more tax that's paid, the easier their life becomes and the less reliant on their own competence and get up and go they are. But also it's a case of, for them, if they feel like somebody is slightly less significant than they are, they see that as, instead of bringing someone down, they see it as them coming up and they're a little bit closer to where they wanted to be, which in their eyes is a success.

Right.

So it's a subconscious way of making themselves feel better, as you can see.

And as you know, this show is called Disruptors. So firstly, what's your been your experience being on Disruptors? And secondly, what does the word disruptive mean to you?

The first question, it's been a good experience. I like that you ask the questions that warrant the responses you're actually interested in. You clearly interested in figuring out the interesting stuff.

Yeah.

Which, the business model behind it, which.

Caters for more information for you. A Better podcast for your audience. And it helps me keep on my toes, which is great.

Yeah.

And what does it mean to me? Well, a disruptor is someone who gets in the way of the norm.

Right.

They get in the way of what's the perceived norm in society. And whether they disrupt something mentally or physically, they get in the way. And I like that, because the way that things go is not the way they should always go. And you need to change things to improve them.

Yeah.

And would you say you're disruptive?

Totally. Yeah, totally. In a very different way, in a subtle way, because I don't have the loudmouth to go with it. I don't have the incredibly strong opinions that. That make it blatantly obvious what I'm doing. But I think you can move in silence and be as effective as that.

And is that. That you're just not that way inclined, or is that because you're careful? Because you're in the.

Where I want to be, Right. I'm cautious of where I want to be. And I recognize that if I want to be a billionaire, if I want to be, you know, the lead person in a corporate public company, long term, I need to understand that perception is everything, and a lot of it is the truth.

Right.

You know, the way I am is the way I am. It's not an act. But I am cautious. Of course, I think the best of us have to be.

Why?

Because my opinion sits as described.

Right.

I've told you everything. That every so often, you land on a really good one. It was just the other day, I was talking with someone, and they were literally trying to convince me to come up with a business on the spot. Quite a weird thing. And they were like, well, make me a business about dogs. And I thought about it and I thought about it. I thought, well, what about if we had something like Waze, right? What about if there was a place where you could tag locations as a user for dogs that were. Because this was someone who was asking from, like, be good to the world thing, right? So they were saying, well, how do you help stray dogs? Well, imagine somebody was compensated by corporate donors, donation donators to. Every time they found a stray dog, they would. They would take a picture of it, make a note of the dog and the location. They would get a tip, right? Then the next person who feeds that dog would get the food funded, and they would get their tip. And people on this app could freely locate and be funded to support stray dogs with corporate donors, which was tax relief for their companies. Right. So in A matter of a couple of minutes. I saw the problem, found the solution, and Whilst it's not $1 billion, business is ready to go. It's an idea. And it's more than a lot of people are working with. And the only reason I was able to come up with that is because I'm able to see a problem and figure out how to solve it. And I'm no different to anyone else because I didn't have any experience. No one in my family is entrepreneurial. I just taught myself to see society's problems. So the biggest bit of advice would be to start looking at life in a way where you observe where things go wrong and how they can be fixed. But also you observe where everybody's spending money. There are trillions of dollars being spent every day, which means there are a lot of good businesses and there's trillions of upsells that are missed. And you can find that.

And then what mistakes are young entrepreneurs making? 25 and under. You're 25. What mistakes are the young kids making?

I think they get caught up in it a lot of the time. So they get caught up in sort of being the eye, you know, that being the sort of centerpiece, the center cog that turns it around. And they very much let that fuel their ego. And I find that there are a lot of successful guys that end up going on a journey to Ibiza or to Asia and they start living a life that they haven't earned. Now that might be fine because that might be where they want to go in life. I'm judging it based on my experience, which is become a billionaire. That's what I want to do. And I judge people who make these poor decisions for that goal. But it depends on what people want to get out of life.

Why do you want to become a billionaire? Because, let's be honest, no one gives.

A F. They don't. They really don't. And I probably wouldn't give a either because it's no different to being a Sentai millionaire or, you know, a Deca millionaire. It's the exact same thing. Your life is relatively similar at all of those stages. But as I say, it's the same reason that I don't need to run a public company. I am free as I am, and I could totally live relatively well for the rest of my life just by compound interest at this point. So it's not that there's any sort of material return from it. It's just what I want to do. And I don't know why I want to do what I want to do. And I think you need to know why you want to do what you want to do. And you know what you might get there and decide I don't do anymore. And that's also cool because that's what the freedom buys you the chance to do.

Yeah.

But for me, I'm motivated by the stress. I don't know what I'd do without it.

Yeah.

You know, without the office, without the team, without the problems that feel lost.

Well, if you become a billionaire, you'll.

Get those 10x and I'm looking forward to it.

What about instead of wanting to become a billionaire, what about wanting to create £100 billion worth of value?

Well, that's the, that's the very way in which you get there, isn't it? Because everything is a reflection of the value that you add to society. Whether you're an influencer, you know, it's how many people can take value, be it entertainment or information, if you're a sports person, it's how many goals can you score or whatever else. It's all, everything is value exchanging.

Right.

And so if you want to become a billionaire, well, you need to exchange a billion plus dollars worth of value.

Probably, probably 100 billion.

Yeah.

Based on your average expenditure and margin at that state.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's all about value exchange. That is the only way to do anything in life to add value. You don't get anything out, you add value to society and it compensates you in return. That is the life we live.

So why do a lot of people, especially on the left, think that it's not the case, Think that the billionaires should all leave and, you know, all these rich people should pay more tax?

Well, it's a coping mechanism. It's. It's a case of the more tax that's paid, the easier their life becomes and the less reliant on their own competence and get up and go they are. But also it's a case of for them, if they feel like somebody is slightly less significant than they are, they see that as, instead of bringing someone down, they see it as them coming up and they're a little bit closer to where they wanted to be, which in their eyes is a success.

Right.

So it's a subconscious way of making themselves feel better, as you can see.

And as you know, this show is called Disruptors. So firstly, what's your been your experience being on disruptors? And secondly, what does the word disruptive mean to you?

The first question, it's been a Good experience. I like that you ask the questions that warrant the responses you're actually interested in. You clearly interested in figuring out the interesting stuff.

Yeah.

Which.

The business model behind it, which caters.

For more information for you, a better podcast for your audience. And it helps me keep on my toes, which is great.

Yeah.

And what does it mean to me? Well, a disruptor is someone who gets in the way of the norm.

Right.

They get in the way of what's the perceived norm in society. And whether they disrupt something mentally or physically, they get in the way. And I like that because the way that things go is not the way they should always go. And you need to change things to improve them.

Yeah.

And would you say you're disruptive?

Totally. Yeah, totally. In a very different way, in a subtle way, because I don't have the loudmouth to go with it. I don't have the incredibly strong opinions that. That make it blatantly obvious what I'm doing. But I think you can move in silence and be as effective as that.

And is that. That you're just not that way inclined, or is that because you're careful? Because you're in the.

Where I want to be.

Right.

I'm cautious of where I want to be. And I recognize that if I want to be a billionaire, if I want to be, you know, the lead person in a corporate public company, long term, I need to understand that perception is everything and a lot of it is the truth.

Right.

You know, the way I am is the way I am. It's not an act. But I am cautious. Of course, I think the best of us have to be.

Why?

Because my opinion sits as described.

Right.

I've told you everything that I. I believe. But I think the way you present yourself is. Is your first impression and you don't get a second chance of that. Taking a second to collect yourself, say what you mean, but in a way that's well received is key, especially for someone of age.

Right.

Because a lot of people won't take me seriously for my age.

Right.

Especially in business, if they were to hear through an email that I'm 25, they might not be interested.

Right.

Especially with some of the things I'm trying to do nowadays. So collecting my thoughts and thinking about how I present myself is important.

Do you read Robert Greene?

I have seen Robert Greene stuff. I believe I've read a book or two. But I do sometimes disconnect from the author because I'm listening.

Yeah.

I just think, what were the books?

Robert Greens.

Well, he's written 48 laws of power, that one. And he did one with 50 Cent, which I really liked. Yeah, I'm just thinking, I guess your strategic advantage might be the Sun Tzu effect, you know, make them think X and you do Y because. But, you know, I think your age is a superpower in a way. You know, you said earlier, well, maybe I should have started investing. Well, you've got a lot of years left. Warren Buffett, his net worth, he started.

At nine, I believe.

Yeah, he invested like really.

It's interesting because from the research that I've done on Buffett, and more importantly from the book the Psychology of Money.

Yeah.

I figured out a lot about his investment returns and the fact that he was actually a pretty average investor. Nothing crazy. His annual rate of return was mid table.

He's been doing it a lot longer.

Than everyone else, but he's done it so much longer. His compounding is therefore greater.

And the big thing with Buffett that a lot of people don't understand with investing is it's how you avoid the desire to buy and sell too much because you.

But that's the freedom, the freedom to not have to need the money. Yeah, it comes down to that freedom thing. Again, like, you know, again, it's not the goal for me, but I recognize it's a perk. I make enough to put some into a stock that I've got long term conviction and be totally cool if it plummets. Yeah, it's no problem for me, you know, because I decided to put money in that I was willing to part with. Whereas a lot of investors, they look at it as tomorrow's profit.

Right.

Tomorrow's lunch money.

Yeah.

Dangerous game.

So, yeah, Warren Buffett, by the time he was 56, he'd accrued no point, not 1% of his net worth.

So 90, you know, because I decided to put money in that I was willing to part with. Whereas a lot of investors, they look at it as tomorrow's profit.

Right.

Tomorrow's lunch money.

Yeah.

Dangerous game.

So, yeah, Warren Buffett, by the time he was 56, he'd accrued no point nor 1% of his net worth. So 99.99 of his net worth was accrued. After age 56, you're 25. Does that make you feel good?

Yeah, that was, that's the goal. I just need to figure out how to be as good of investor as well, well.

Vanguard Life Strategy, 100% equity accumulator, 9.99% of his net worth was accrued after age 56. You're 25. Does that make you feel good?

Yeah, that was.

That's the goal.

I just need to figure out how to be as good of investor as well, well.

Vanguard Life Strategy 100% Equity Accumulator. This is not advice. This is knowledge. I reckon if you put all your spare money into that and never took it out, never sell it, the transparency.

Is you can put your money into a lot of things and be very wealthy one day because a lot of things, especially those that are scarce.

This is not advice, this is knowledge. I reckon if you put all your spare money into that and never a.

Massively going up in value anyway.

Right.

You could. You could pick cars, you could pick gym equipment.

Right.

These are things that I invest into, not necessarily as primary investments, but as things that I recognize I can return on. Some cars return crazy values.

Right.

Some gym equipment returns crazy values. And so you can, if you're willing to hold on to a lot of scarce resources, make a lot of money in anything we want to do.

Yeah.

Right.

It doesn't have to be stocks or crypto or anything like that. It's just a case of recognizing the scarcity in the first place.

And also, do you think it helps if it's something you're interested in?

Well, totally, because you become in tune with what's worth investing in based on your actual desire to know the product rather than those that pretend to invest but don't care about stocks in the slightest.

Yeah.

And then pick the wrong ones because they haven't done the due diligence because they didn't want to. Whereas if you wanted to do the due diligence, you'd naturally become better at it.

Yeah.

It's kind of the same as in business.

Right?

Yeah.

Liam, thanks for coming on the show.

Pleasure, man. Thanks.

Appreciate it. Sam.