Chiropractic Is Dying w/ Dr. Brett Jones | The Arena Episode 47

What's up, guys? Welcome back to The Arena. I'm your host, Dr. Travis Stewart, and I have to be honest with you, this episode is different. I've been wanting to have Dr. Brett Jones on this show since I started it, and I'm glad we waited because this was the right time for this conversation. Dr. Brett built Kairos Training Culture from scratch as a first-quarter chiropractic student. He trained over 8,000 chiropractors and students across 20 countries. He created the adjusting flow genre on YouTube before anyone else was doing it, and he poured more into this profession than most people will ever know or acknowledge. We talked about where he came from— losing his brother at 14, his mother's depression, his own spiral with pills and alcohol— and how chiropractic philosophy brought him back to God and gave him a purpose bigger than himself. We talked about what he built— the origin of the Adjusting Ninjas, the birth of KTC, the seminars, the camps, the sacrifice, and the community that both sustained him and taught him valuable lessons. And then we talked about what happened— the blacklisting, the racism, the people who took advantage of him when he was giving everything he had. And then we talked about what's next, because Brett Jones is still standing, he's still building, and he's got some things to say that a lot of people in this profession are not going to want to hear. If you like this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share to join us on our mission to help chiropractors make more money, reach more people, and change more lives. This is episode 47 with Dr. Brett Jones. Let's get into it.

In 1910, Teddy Roosevelt stood up in Paris and gave a speech that has rang true for over a century and may be more relevant now than ever before. He said, the critic doesn't count. The guy pointing out where the strongman stumbled, where the doer of deeds could have done it better, he doesn't count. The credit belongs to the man actually in the arena, face covered in dust and sweat and blood, coming up short over and over because there's no effort without error. But he's in there. He knows the big enthusiasms and he knows the big failures. And if he loses, at least he loses daring greatly. So his place will never be with those cold, timid souls who've never known victory or defeat. That's what this show is all about. Because it's never been easier to sit in the stands and criticize. It's never been easier to have an opinion, to post a comment, or to tell people what someone should have done differently, all without ever having built one single thing. My guest today has been in the arena for over a decade. He's built something in this profession that nearly revolutionized it. Then he watched people take it and tell the world he never made it to begin with. He's been applauded, praised, copied, doubted, and scrutinized, all in public. And he's still fucking standing, still building. And he's got some things to say that a lot of people in this profession are not going to want to hear. Dr. Brett Jones. Welcome to the arena.

It's good to be in the motherfucking arena. I never left, motherfuckers. Still here.

We still been in the arena. Still in the arena.

It's good to be here.

Absolutely, man. This has been a long time coming, dude. You know, I wanted to have you on this show since I started it. Kind of had a plan to have you on episode 33. It never, uh, never materialized. So here we are. I'd like to just like set the, set the frame a little bit with my relationship to you and with you and with KTC. You know, first off, I was exposed to KTC as a first-year chiropractic student in 2017. So I think I was tri-3 at the time. And, you know, one of, one of my friends now and colleagues told me, like, you got to come try this, this, this morning training session that we have 2 days a week. You know, I think you'll really like it based on your personality. It combines movement, training intensity. We study the art of chiropractic. We work through analysis. And we work through the technique of adjusting so that you can be a competent and confident chiropractor before you ever graduate. I went that next Tuesday, woke up. I think we were there at 6:00 AM. We were heading out in the parking lot, you know, to do our, to do our warmup session. And then we came in and we did a bunch of breathwork. And after that, we did some, some mindfulness and some meditation. And then we got up and we, we started training like the vectors through this, like Really intense motion with our hands and our bodies, training the art of chiropractic like a sport. And from that moment on, I was hooked. I was hooked, bro. And I will say that I've had many mentors along the way in chiropractic that I owe a lot of my early chiropractic success as a chiropractor to. And you were one of them, Paulo Feely being another one, and Jeremy Brook being another. And, you know, I spent a lot more time With, with those 2, with, with Paulo Feely and Jeremy Brook face to face and, you know, just having this personal relationship. But I spent way more time learning from you. And so I wanna thank you first off because you gave thousands of hours of accessible chiropractic content, bro.

Mm-hmm.

Where I was literally screen recording every video that you put out and studying it frame by frame, watching, you know, how you're accessing the system with ease. How you're maneuvering your own body, how you're coiling your own energy, and then how you're delivering the impulse in an honoring yet super athletic way. And so I literally studied your film like film tape hours a day. I remembered there was a moment where, uh, it was the first time my wife had met you, but it was at the Space Between that you taught with Lauren Kodak. We were sitting in the chairs waiting on you guys to come out, and you came in the room behind us, and Sarah looked at me and said, that's Brett Jones, without even seeing you. She's like, I know that voice from anywhere. And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, I've heard that voice for thousands of hours coming from your cell phone to the point to where I would be able to recognize him anywhere. And so I just want to tell you, thank you first off, because you were a big part of catalyzing who I became as a chiropractic adjuster because of what you were willing to put out into the world. And you were extremely innovative. And I would say the most prolific chiropractic creator that we, we may have ever known up to this point, at least that I'm aware of. And I'm a big fan of media. So really involved in KTC. I was, you know, part of several seminars. I was a student facilitator and went to several of your immersions. And first off, I want to say thank you. But second of all, I want to dive in and get to know you a little bit better on this podcast episode today.

Thank you for the shout out and the acknowledgement. You know, you mentioned a couple other names. So Paul O'Philly was actually one of the original OG ninjas, right? And so it was my, I think my 4th or 5th quarter as a chiropractic student is when we finally had a group that was dedicated consistently. I actually started Ninjas as a 1st quarter student, which we can dive into later. But then it was like 4th or 5th quarter where it was Paul O'Philly, John McCarthy, and Lance Vaughn State. And that's where we would consistently meet at 9:20s. We had basically like a 30-minute break at 9:20. And so yeah, he was one of the original OG Ninjas and then went off and— Created you know the samurai, which is again kind of like the counter if you will to the ninja movement. Yeah, yeah. You know, I said like it came a little later, but yeah, shout out to Paul. And then Jeremy Brooke was actually my wife's first chiropractor. And so when I started chiropractic school, she was still in LA as a professional dancer. And Jeremy Brooke was one of the original people that I interviewed with Adjusting Ninjas. And so my first quarter as a student is kind of like my kickoff of my YouTube if you will. I did seven Adjusting Ninjas interviews. The first one was actually Arnaud Bernier. And then there was a few others. I can list them out as we go on, but Jeremy Brooke was like number 3 or 4 and interviewed him. And at the time, again, my wife was in LA and so she started going to see him. And so that was her first chiropractor. And so yeah, amazing that that's been your group of mentors because it's a group that I've been involved with for the last going on, yeah, over 13 years now. So.

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Thanks for your time. Back to the episode. Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot of— there's a lot of entanglement, I would say, in the chiropractic profession, but certainly in this kind of like core group that has just developed into like the artful, masterful chiropractic adjusters that have gone on to be extremely successful and to have a voice of their own, you know, and, you know, be able to share. So I, I just wanna dive in like to— first off, let's start with your journey into chiropractic. Just give me a little bit of baseline understanding of Maybe what led you to chiropractic. You can go as deep as you'd like there. And then let's talk about what chiropractic school looked for you, because I know you came in and shook things up pretty quickly early on. Like you said, first quarter student.

Yeah. So chiropractic saved my life in so many ways. Um, when in 1999, my older brother passed away. And so following the death of my brother, our family lost faith and lost religion, you know? So we grew up Christian and I don't know, that was, that was a, that was a heavy blow. It was him and his girlfriend passed away in a car accident. And so My mom went into a deep depression, and you could say she never really got out of it. You know, here we are 27 years later, and she still struggles with that and all the aftermath of that. And so, yeah, I mean, following that, it wasn't too long before we stopped going to church. I think it was just too painful, you know? And we didn't have a lot of skill sets, you know, to deal with trauma, to deal with depression, to deal with grief. And I would say, you know, a lot of the world didn't at that time, you know? Things have changed, and I'd say maybe one of the benefits Benefits of social media is you can gain access to you know a lot more information and potential strategies and ways to look at things and help. But at the time, you know you'd have to get a book or maybe you try to go to counseling or therapy if you will. But like we didn't have those resources, and so everybody did the best they could with what they had. Yeah, for me it was it was quite a dark path. You know, I was in a lot of pain, and I saw my family like disintegrate my my. My mom, like I said, got depressed and ended up being suicidal. And, you know, thank God she never took her life. Um, my parents ended up splitting. My dad lost his job. And so like, it was just like, it was just rough, like one thing after another. Um, and so for me, like, I knew I needed to get out of what felt like, you know, just this depth of fucking dis-ease I was in, you know, in modern chiropractic language, if you will. But yeah, shithole. So I knew I needed to get out of it. And for me, athletics You know, was, was one of the places that I had talent for sure. I would never say I was like the most talented, but I had this work ethic. And that work ethic started when I was little, man. Um, my dad would call me like the little Brahma bull, like just like wouldn't stop. So like, you know, usually dad liked to wrestle his kids and it was like, I was the one that just never gave up. So it didn't matter if I was getting my ass beat or getting, getting rocked, I would just never stop. And so if I never stopped, then to me, I never lost. And so I just had, I had a work ethic. And so I said, well, fuck, with this work ethic that I have, What would happen if I put everything I had into football? You know, I grew up a multi-sport athlete. I played everything— basketball, baseball, tennis, golf. I mean, you name it. Pretty athletic. But I said, I'll put everything into football to try to get the fuck out of here, because I just knew that if I was to stay in the same situation, in the same city, in the same whatever, it just wasn't good. And so that's what I did. I put everything I had into football. I did not get a scholarship out of high school. And so I went to the local junior college. Ended up playing 2 years there. And yeah, I proved myself and I got a scholarship to go play football in Colorado for 2 years. And I think it was at that time, like, I had put so much effort, right? So I was 14 when my brother passed away. And so basically I had, you know, half of my 8th grade year, which was like, it was bad. And then high school to kind of, you know, kind of work on myself, prove myself, if you will. And There was something that I'd built in my head that, you know, like, because I, I followed my mom's depression, like, so I started getting cyclically depressed and considered suicide. I never thought I'd make it past the age of 18. And so I put in my head that if I was to get the scholarship and I was to leave, then everything would like suddenly become better, right? And so I remember like I, I'm going to, going to Adams State in Colorado, you know, I'm bigger, faster, stronger than I'd ever been. That mental piece never changed. You know, it's like there was still that something where I would go through these these seasons and cycles of like just getting really fucking low. And it was a smaller town where I went to school, and so it was a drinking culture. You know, it's like I feel like most small towns, like when they don't have a lot going on, they figure out how to do other stuff. And so, you know, drinking culture. I had a couple injuries my last two years. My junior year, I I tore my MCL, and they started me the next game with a torn MCL. So they just Braced me up. I was taking shots of vodka and Vicodin at halftime and trying to play. And so I played most of my junior year with a torn MCL. And then my senior year, it was, uh, the 4th to last game, I had what's called the unholy triad. So it was ACL, MCL, and meniscus. And I did that in the 3rd drive of the game, and I had already had 6 tackles. So I was like, I was fucking— I was, I was on a heater. Um, and I played the first half on a torn ACL, MCL, meniscus? Well, 'cause I knew when it happened, like, my career was pretty much over. I told my brother who came to the game from Southern California, I said, yo, go get me a 6-pack. I'm gonna try to get back in there in the next half because I know this is probably it. And come back the second half, my knee was 2 to 3 times the size. I couldn't fucking move it. And I was like, I guess that's it. And so, you know, so I had, you know, basically a career-ending injury at that moment based on my resources, you know. It's like, hey, if I had the skill set now, I probably would've been back. But yeah, then it was a career-ender and Yeah, I went into just this path of starting to mix other things with alcohol, you know? And so I was doing pain pills, you know? And I think there was a reason I could justify it because, you know, I was in pain. But my dad— I'll back up just a little bit because I think this is important. My dad was in a car accident when I was younger, ended up having spinal surgery before I got into chiropractic school. And he was on a lot of pain pills. And so he was on 7 different medications at one time, but he had, you know, the muscle relaxers and he was taking gabapentin and And he had Norcos and all these things. And so when I would go home, I would grab some, right? And then I'd come back. So I started going through that. And then so I ended up finishing school and I still needed prereqs for chiropractic school. And so I got a BA. I should have got a BS. I didn't know at that time. And so I was interested in chiropractic. I didn't necessarily know why, but I had to go to Santa Barbara Community College. Oh, well, the reason why is my dad started going to chiropractor. And so I'd gotten to see it, even though, again, my dad still had spinal surgery and all the things, but I thought it was interesting. And so I think I'm okay. I think I want to be a chiropractor. And, um, I had a few more prereqs to get. So I go to Santa Barbara Community College. My younger brother right at that time is at a fraternity, you know, and, uh, we'd go to these frat parties. And our other good friend, his mom was on the psychotropic drugs, so he would steal the psychotropic drugs from her. So this is like your Klonopin and Xanax. And then we would steal the Norcos and the Vicodin and all other shit. And, you know, we take them, but we also, you know, pills are worth money. So we were making a little bit of side money on that shit too. And there was one night specifically that I We go out to this party, this frat party, and I remember I just started mixing the psychotropics. And so I believe I had like 2 Klonopin and then a fucking Norco or some shit. And then we went out, I had 20+ drinks, you know, it was like— I come back home and I remember laying down, I'm just like listening, feeling, breathing, and, uh, and my fucking heart stopped for, I don't know, 1, 2 minutes. I'm just fucking laying there like I think I'm dying. And so I'm lucky to be alive. But that, that for me, that was the moment that, uh, I said, shit's fucked up, dude. This is bad, you know? Because I feel like during that whole time I was always, I was always training, you know? Um, even after I got out of football, I started training mixed martial arts and these other things. And I had this routine and I was running and I was fit and all this shit. But I had been running, bro, from the pain of my brother's loss and the pain of my mom leaving and the pain of all the shit for for a long time, for a long time. And my best strategy was to fucking disassociate, you know, try to fucking alcohol it, drug it, whatever. And I'm laying in bed dying. I'm like, I can't keep doing this shit. And so that was, uh, the start of the flip, bro. And, um, it was a similar time that I, I went to tour chiropractic schools. And I was like, you know, because that's why I was doing prereqs. And so I, I played football in Colorado. I was born in Cali. I'm a Cali kid. And so I wanted to be in Cali. And at the time, there was there's 3 chiropractic schools in Cali. And so I checked out Southern California University of Health Sciences, I checked out— which at the time I think was LAC, they changed later, so it was Los Angeles Chiropractic College, it was called LAC of Philosophy— but, um, and then Palmer College in San Jose, and then Life West. And, um, I ended up deciding on Life West, and there was one main reason. One, it was odd to me, so I didn't know if I was gonna like it or not. But the other 2 schools I went, everybody was kind of like, I don't know, it was like they're kind of doing their own shit, right? And they seem stressed, they seemed overwhelmed. I'm like, I get it, it's a doctorate program, so that's probably And I went to Life West. People just seemed a little bit more vibrant. People wanted to talk to me. People were looking to, you know, give me handshakes or hand fives or high fives and like potentially try to hug me. At the time, I was not a hugger. So I was like, that's cool, bro. Thank you. And, um, but then I, I got a book from Ben Glass. So Ben Glass was a student at the time. Dr. Ben Glass practices in Oakland, California at the Shift Chiropractic now. But he was a student at the time. I think he was like a 3rd or 4th quarter student. And he just got turned on to the chiropractic philosophy. There was a chiropractor by the name of Dr. David Scheiner who ended up working at Life West, which is pretty cool. And we actually kind of became friends in some way. But he wrote this book called Chiropractic Revealed, and Ben was hype on it. He'd gotten 20 copies and he was selling them to students. And I said, yeah, I'll get a copy. So I read it on my way home because I lived in SoCal and Life West is in NorCal. So I'm flying back home and I'm reading this book and something fucking clicked for me, bro. And the biggest thing was I feel like chiropractic philosophy used terminology that allowed me To come back to God. At the time, I couldn't say the word God. Prayer was distant, but chiropractic used the term universal intelligence, and then it communicated that universal intelligence was also within us as our innate intelligence. And so it did a couple things. I think one, it made the language soft enough for me to reenter. And then two, it told me this thing, God, that you've been angry at, mad at for taking your brother and ruining your life and all this shit, It's within you, you know, that, that universal intelligence is part of you. And so if you want to keep pointing that finger, start pointing that finger at yourself too. So it, it kind of forced me into radical responsibility. And so I was, I don't know, I was fucking turned on, man. I got lit up. And so I started reading more chiropractic books. So I started reading green books before I got into chiropractic school. And so when I got there, here's the other side, I think, of the original question. Is I was massively disappointed. I was reading about how big chiropractic was and all the things that it was able to do and all the people that it was able to help. And then as a quarter 1, you get assigned an intern, right? So that you can start going to the student clinic and getting adjusted yourself. And personally, I thought what I was seeing in there was abysmal. I was like this, wait, I'm reading about how chiropractic can help people through cancer and tumors and all these types of diseases and getting the sickest of the sick well. And then we can't even take care of neck pain, back pain, and headaches. At a high level in this fucking clinic. Now's the reality, you know, because, you know, quarter 1, I'm seeing 8th quarter students and 9th quarter students helping quarter 1, quarter 2 students. And then as we moved, I think into quarter 3, we would start going to the outpatient clinic still with our intern. Now, I loved my intern, but I got to see what was happening with everyone else. We had 54 students in my quarter 1 class, which is not a lot, but that's what it was. And by the end of the first quarter, I would say about half of them did not want to go get adjusted. So they were already getting turned away from chiropractic based on their experience in the first quarter. And then we went to the outpatient clinic. And I was like, okay, now we have 10th, 11th, 12th quarter students that are working on people from the public. And it was bad. It's just like not able to make the adjustment. And then the clinic instructor would come in and then also to me just didn't— I'm sorry, just I wasn't— I was not impressed. Because at the time, you know, I started studying BJ and I was looking at the videos of him adjusting on the rooftop and all the fucking training that was going on. And then I was actually going to my classes. I'm like, this isn't that, you know, like we were doing poseology, fucking set up on somebody, say what you were going to do. I'm like, in my— in all of my life, of all my sporting activities, we never did that. We fucking train. You want to get better at this, you fucking train. And so I noticed a massive fucking gap, and I noticed it in quarter 1, and that's when I started these interviews and then started the training.

How'd you find Arno?

I had my connection to Ben Glass, right? And that was the, the person who gave me the book. And so as I entered quarter 1, he's somebody that I stayed connected with. And my biggest thing was I had already learned, right, that chiropractic was a philosophy, a science, and an art. For me, in modern age, I would add business, right? You know, you'd move from a three-legged stool to a four-legged chair. But with that philosophy, art, science at that time, and so I look around. I said we actually got philosophy at Life West is one of the reasons I chose Life West. You know, my quarter one philosophy 101 teacher was Dr. Sean Deal, and we're reading Stevenson, the chiropractic textbook, going through it, right? And then it says science. Well, well, we got plenty of motherfucking science. Most of these classes are science. I had I think 28 units my first quarter in chiropractic school. I was like, fuck, I'm mainly science, and I got.

Yeah.

Fucking philosophy. And then I got to see again what's happening. I said, the biggest missing piece is art. And then, then, you know, later going into Diversified 1 and seeing what that was, I'm like, oh God. So I asked, you know, Ben, I'm like, yo, like, who would you consider some of the top level adjusters? And that was the introduction to Arno. He said, I would say Arno Bernier. And then there was a local person that was, you know, I trained with Arno on MLS, it was Jen Wilhelm and then Jeremy Brooke. And then I got his book. I think it was called the Spine Checkers Manifesto. And I was reading that quarter 1. And so I basically had a list of people that I wanted to start interviewing. In quarter 1, Arno came to do a talk at Life West. And so after his talk, I said, hey, Arno, you know, I've heard a lot about you. I don't really know you, but I'm doing these interviews, just trying to capture, you know, like what goes into being a really good adjuster, because I feel like a lot of people don't know, you know. And so for me, like I'd always, I'd always built like where if I'm going to play football, what do I need to be? I need to be, I need to have power. Right? So I need to be powerful, I need to be strong, I need to be fast, I need to have some level of agility. I guess I gotta have like some just fucking toughness, right? Resilience. And so I'd always trained that, but I'm like, chiropractic seems different. So what do I need to have with chiropractic? And so I would ask them like, what do you feel like are the top attributes of a good chiropractic adjuster? And they would say, you know, so the top 5 that I got was presence, speed, power, focus, and precision. Right. And so for me, the new ones, because speed and power I already knew how to train, but the new ones for me was the focus, presence, and precision. I'm like, that's different. And so that, that kind of helped formulate how I would later then build the training programs. And so yeah, the, the interviews came from a recommendation for Ben and then interviewing Arnaud, and then it became like some of the people that were going to come do seminars. So I interviewed Arnaud Bernier, Jen Wilhelm, Jeremy Brook, Ian Davis-Tremaine, right? It was more of an upper cervical guy. Upper cervical guy. Katina Manning came later as I moved my way into BGI in like the later quarters. And Lila Wolfe was a DE chiropractor that I had met and I had a lot of respect for and just watching the way that she would adjust. And yeah, I don't know if I said Jake Merrick, it was another one. So I think it was like 7 Adjusting Ninjas interviews and like 2 or 3 of them came in the first quarter. And so yeah, that was, um, kind of like the original. And at the time I was, I was, because my intern was into AK. I was actually studying a lot of AK. So all my 9:20 breaks, I was doing applied kinesiology and doing muscle testing with, uh, Dr. John Hatch, which is right now one of the world's top functional neurology doctors in the world, at Park City, Utah. And so a lot of respect for John and everything that he does, just different. But at the time, like, that's what I was into. I was into AK. And then so I started taking this AK course, and I was taught by this, this Dr. Joe Smith, if I remember correctly. But then he was starting to blend the AK with the functional neurology and like the functional, like, funk med stuff. And it just started getting super heady for me. In the beginning, it was like AK allowed me a window into somebody's nervous system because I didn't have the hands yet to feel like where I needed to go. And so I could muscle test it. So if I muscle tested, like it gave, it got me closer. But the more I started going to these seminars, the more I felt like I was disconnecting from the actual human. I was like, I'm now it's like this like whole treatment thing. And I know chiropractic wasn't supposed to be a treatment and da da da da. So like I felt like I needed to back away. But I mentioned this because I will say Right. Arnaud Bernier was a huge inspiration to me, without a doubt. However, I never went to MLS until I think it was my 4th or 5th quarter because I always had conflicts with what I was doing in applied kinesiology. And I mention this because as we go into kind of the journey of what was Adjusting Ninjas and what became Kairos Training Culture, this is one of the things that can get said about me is that I stole my stuff from MLS. Right. And I do plan on, you know, providing levels of what came from where and also like a massive acknowledgment While doing so. So it's like, because I hadn't been to MLS at that time, to go to MLS Club you would have had to attend an MLS. I was not allowed to go to MLS Club until I think it was like in my— I think it was my 4th quarter in chiropractic school. And so for the first 3 quarters, I created what I thought would be a good training program. I had no idea what the arcs and shit were, right? So like, because Arno trains these arcs, you know, so you had a body right or a body left or a spinous left or a spinous right, and those would have different arcs. I was doing like plyometrics, speed, power, you know. I was a foot— I played football, right? So we're doing all these other freaking drills and weird shit, and then we just go to a drop table and we just simulate what a thoracic adjustment would be. We simulate what a side posture adjustment would be. And, um, I remember there was a, uh, a doctor named Lou Corletto, right, who was a BGI dog, but then he started leading something called BGI Osseous. But he had created these like foam dummies, and like you could put a spine in it. So you'd have this foam dummy, you put a spine in it. So we got one of those foam dummies because one of the other people had been there, and we'd take that and to the, the, you know, to the drop table room. And so we'd start training that. So, uh, yeah, a lot, a lot of early inspiration. But yes, Adjusting Ninjas started with me actually first quarter with a notebook, just like, right, like drawing random-ass shit. And it's weird because like as a, as an athlete, I never really was a big— I never considered myself an artist. But I started drawing shit and I was like, you know, okay, we need a fucking name. And I remember drawing this like fucking crazy like AN. And then we need a little fucking logo. So I'm just drawing this like stick figure doing a fucking like strike, right? And then, um, I ended up going and I like made copies of this like fucking little design with, we're gonna train at 6 in the morning in the gym before school starts and show up. And like, this is like quarter 1 and I showed up, nobody's fucking there. So I was like, all right, I guess I'll train this one myself. So I tried it again like 3 weeks later and I hand out like 50 flyers and I got like 4 people to show up and I do this like sample workout. Because what I also realized is like, there's a lot of chiropractic students They never played any fucking sport. That's just the reality, right? So they don't, they don't know the training. They got into it from whatever reason. But like, I come from that background. So it was like, I've trained my whole life. I like when I have something to train for. Right now my sport's chiropractic. And so let me teach you guys how to generate speed or power, you know? And then we worked on later the precision and the focus and the presence. And that came through the breathwork and the meditation. And so like different pieces of the puzzle came at different times. I will say like a big inspiration also is Dr. Sid Williams, right? So I was around when Dr. Sid was still here and I started going I went to DE, I think it was my 4th quarter in chiropractic school, and that's when I got introduced to 49 Breaths. 49 Breaths was a foundational piece with Adjusting Ninjas and Chiro's Training Culture. Still to this day, it's still what we teach at level 1, 49 Breaths. And so most people— and for those that don't know, it's a series of breaths, 7, 14, 14, and 14, with affirmations in between. Always gave credit back to Dr. Sid and kind of really being a gateway for me into breathwork. And then later, uh, it was holotropic breathwork, you know, with Dr. Stu Bittman. Did that. And then Later down the road, because again, this is all happening 2010, 2011, 2012. Wim Hof wasn't even on the scene yet. And then Wim Hof started getting on the scene, I would say closer to 2013, '14. And then we started introducing Wim Hof breathwork at level 2, and Lance was big into that. And so we started doing Wim Hof. And then, you know, 4 or 5 years later, I created some of my own styles of breathwork. We launched a program called Move, Breathe, Meditate. But, um, yeah, where do we want to go from here?

I, first off, thank you for sharing all the, you know, the, like, the hardship that you faced with your brother. And I'm sorry to hear that, man. You know, I can, I can relate to, uh, obviously not situationally, but feeling very similarly. And I was in the military and I was stationed in Spokane, Washington, and I remember, uh, heavy, heavy consideration of suicide. And, you know, my dad was able to talk me through those, those moments. And I was also mixing pills and alcohol at the time, uh, when I was in the Air Force, actually. They put me on Ritalin to— I got injured, and, um, thankfully it's the injury that altered my trajectory, otherwise I may have been a lifer. As a firefighter. But yeah, I ended up with pills and alcohol as well, and I had a downward spiral. And I think hopefully, uh, we'll get back to the positive disintegration, but I also had a disintegration where I was literally disintegrating and like everything, everything in my life was crumbling down. And I just felt like this just huge weight of expectation and responsibility to be somebody that I currently wasn't being. And I knew that I was meant for more. And so I, I can relate to that. And I always appreciate when I meet people.

Yeah.

That have been in places similar, because I think that that's what can breed the fire to actually build something special. You know, there's a lot of relatability in that vulnerability. And I meet a lot of people now who have, uh, you know, lived a, a pretty— a clean, a clean, clean slate, you know, like just like just hasn't, hasn't gone through much, you know, challenge and, and variety or dynamic human experience. So anyway, I understand where the fire and the passion comes from now. So I think that's That's great. But now I want to understand, like, okay, you've gone out and you've, you've acquired like information now in a notebook, you know, you've done the interviews and you've realized that there's a void in the chiropractic training. And so you create this, you know, 9:20 in your, in your breaks, you guys are doing some training and meeting to elevate the art. And then you start meeting at 6:00 AM and you start running through these training protocols that you're formulating yourself. And, you know, that was probably early on in chiropractic. school, maybe what are we in now at by this time? Like quarter 3, quarter 4 or something like that?

Yeah. Yeah. So let's progress this. I like where it's going. Let's continue to tell the journey. So I had my first dedicated group, meaning that people would show up consistently on time throughout an entire quarter. I started having a 4th and 5th quarter. And I said, it was, it was, it was mainly me, Dr. Lance, Paula Fieldy, and John McCarthy. And then something Different happened. I think it's my 8th quarter. So I graduated in 12 quarters. So my 8th quarter, so we have these like consistent trainings that are happening. I'm continuing to expand. I read 97 chiropractic books while in school. I was obsessed. Now with that said, I averaged 3 to 4 hours of sleep. I'm not saying that this is for, for everybody, but it's, that's what I was doing. And what I realized is one, pretty intelligent. I'm a good test taker, right? So like I would realize what was supposed to be on the test. If the material did not feel like it was going to continue with me in chiropractic, as a profession and as a healthcare provider, then all I knew, I knew I just had to pass the test, right? So I didn't care about trying to like deeply assimilate the information so that it would become embodied wisdom. That wasn't it. I was like, if this doesn't follow to my career and how I'm gonna offer service and care, then I just need to learn the information in a way that I'm gonna pass the test. So that's what I did. So during class, I was reading a lot of these books, right? So it was like I had this, you know, this brain that I would know, okay, that's gonna be a test question. They usually tell you that you wanna focus here, right? So it was like, I would, I was, so as soon as somebody went into a story that was gonna take 10, 15 minutes outside of what the actual information was I was reading. And so I started studying different techniques. I went to— I averaged 7 seminars a quarter, you know, in a 10-week quarter. And so I would go everywhere and I was just learning, learning, learning, learning. This fucking sponge, man. And then, you know, I would start to integrate, you know, some of what I was learning back into the field. And then as at the time, I was also making my own discoveries, which was fucking cool. Like, there's, there's something that we teach in biotensegrity analysis of the pelvis, right, within KTC now that I made a discovery as like a 9th quarter student. But, um, we'll continue. So 8th quarter, something shifted, and it's because at this time there was a group of like quarter 1, quarter 2 students that were about to go on a mission trip. And I heard them kind of, kind of just like talking, and they're like, hey, we're gonna go on this mission trip, and you know, we want to go learn how to adjust. You know, I was like, what the fuck? Because at that time I'd been on 2 mission trips already. I'd gone to El Salvador at the end of my 3rd quarter, and then I went with now Dr. John Martinez— at the time was another student— we went to Mexico. I think it was my— after my 5th quarter. So we went and served in Mexico. We were in Zipolite. And yeah, that was fucking— that's a whole other story. Crazy trip because I consider Dr. John Martinez to be one of the, one of the best chiropractors in the world. But we were both students at the same time. He was 2 quarters ahead of me. And so I'd done 2 mission trips. And when I went, my goal was to serve the best out of the best of my capacity at that time. Right. Of course, we always get better. And I'm not going to say it was the best, but I had some type of foundational skill set where now I heard these students talking about, we want to go on this mission trip to learn how to adjust. I was like, you're gonna go to a third world country for people that probably need the care more than anybody to learn how to adjust on their spines? Like, that's crazy. I said, if you dedicate, you know, if you are willing to meet me 6 AM twice a week, you can't be late, you can't miss, or you get the fuck out. I will train you to get ready to serve appropriately for this mission trip. And so that became like the first like really official group that met. We met at 6 AM and it was 2 days a week because I was, I was student council president. I was, I was fucking doing all this fucking shit. So like, that's like the only time that I had. Nobody fucking missed. At the end of that fucking quarter, they were much more prepared. I'm not gonna say they're fucking, you know, grade A fucking chiropractors, but they were much more because they were like second quarter, third quarter students, uh, much more prepared for that mission trip than they would have been. And so I felt good about that. And I said, well, what do you guys want to do? You guys did the mission trip. You want to keep going? Like, yeah, let's keep going. So we kept going. And so that— I'm all, we'll fucking tell others about it. Let's go. And so that group of 12 turned to like 24 the next quarter. And then we started doing 4 days a week instead of 2 days a week. Um, and by the time I graduated, I trained a third of the school. So basically at that time, Life West was like just a little over 300 students. I have a picture, you know, my graduation with near 100 students all by my side of people that have trained with ninjas. And so I'm considering at that time, like, okay, I'm about to graduate, what's next? You know, I ended up organizing a mission trip, which is another fucking crazy story, but, uh, we'll get there at some point. But I'm like, I don't know what's gonna happen to this group. You know, I'll keep, you know, a small group going to my office that people want to keep training, but we'll see because we were never official club. We were just like this fucking underground club because the doors open at 6 at Life West. And so we would just go in and then we'd go to a fucking room and we just fucking start training. So we, again, I think at one point we had like 40, 50 per session. And I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I positioned some people to continue the training and the club grew when I left. I was like, ah, fuck, we got, we got something here because it's much bigger than just me and my personality or charisma or whatever the fuck, my energy. There's actually something to the training. And I think it's cool to talk about like what that training is. So this is something I feel like that we definitely evolved Is it was always this level of outdoor movement. And so, you know, again, I come from a football background, so it was like just dynamic warm-up shit, you know, high knees, butt kickers, side shuffles, karaoke, you know, whatever. But it would change up all the time. But my biggest thing is I was gonna fucking exhaust you. That was my way. Meaning that my first— so like, as the club grew, I was like, we got too many people. The first 2 weeks I was trying to make people throw up and quit. That's how it was. That's how we ran it back then. It's like, it was like Fight Club, right? So it's like, you come in, I'm gonna make it this, this morning, you know. And again, it was only 10 to 20 minutes, but this This time where we go outside and we start this training, I want to make it fucking really hard. But there was a reason for it. It wasn't hard just to be hard. For me, that level of training is what allowed me to finally get out of my head. And I— that's what I realized is like when I was tired and when I was exhausted, I was actually better able to connect beyond my ego, beyond my intellect, and into this something different. Even though I couldn't describe what that different was, I felt something shift. Because after we did that, that morning movement, we then come back in inside. We do breathwork, right? And at the time it was a lot of 49 breaths and then it started to evolve and become a few other things. And then we do a meditation and then following that meditation, we'd go into a chiropractic-specific warmup, right? So now this is like definitely had some inspiration from MLS, you know, it's like, you know, the shoulder circles and the head motions, you know, some I learned from, you know, Jeremy Brooks had his own spinal hygiene series. So at the time I think we were doing even some of the spinal hygiene series of, you know, just getting the flexion extension of the neck, the rotations, the lateral bendings, the flexion extension of the thoracic spine. And then I would add some of the stuff that I knew, right? So doing the hip circles and the knee circles, the ankle rotations. And so getting, getting like really into our body. And then we would do chiropractic training. And at the time, you know, it'd be based on some of the stuff that I was learning, but also some of the stuff that I was developing. And so it was a mix. And so, yeah, I graduate and it continues to grow. At the time now, Dr. Lance Von State is like one of those main people that are helping lead those training sessions. Now that definitely was a few others. We had a great fucking group, man. Great fucking group. And Lance was involved in WCCS, the World Congress of Chiropractic Students. So I graduate 2013, August. That club continues to grow. The annual convention for WCCS is in Georgia in 2014. So Lance has been involved with WCCS the last 2, 3 years. He's all, yo, I think we can, I can get us, you know, to, to go to WCCS and see if we can start putting on like these, like 1 day or 2 days for, for students. Before we did that, I just remembered we tried something. We did this camp in Atlanta. And I want to say it was like January, February after I graduated. So it was like January, February 2014, and we called it Love Camp. And, uh, it was fucking crazy. So basically what happened is I left. When I left, I was doing football drills to kind of crush people. So we were doing sprints, we were doing suicide drills, we were doing fucking like hops and plyometrics and all kinds of crazy shit. Lance comes in and he had been— he had trained with— what was it called? Something out of Phoenix, but it was like the sports performance group out of Phoenix. And so like he knew the neural activation drills, and then he started getting involved Foundation training. And so they're like, Brett, we love you, but Lance's movement, you know, it's better, right? So it's like, it's better, it's better for more people, you know, like, and so you should check it out. And so, so me and Lance did this trial. I said, Lance, I've been hearing about your movement, you know, I don't know, but I do love you. Because again, he was one of the original crew, you know, so he'd been involved for now 2 years. And so we go do this trial called Love Camp. I think we charged like $50, right? Charged $50, go to Atlanta, Georgia. So it was, you know, but we had like I think like 18 or 20 students. And we trained, um, his name's Dr.— now Dr. Ryan Livingston. He lived in this house. They had this— they called it like the Cairo Dojo, and they had like some training equipment. One of his roommates was Boo Bernier, Arno's son. And so we were, we were there and we did this fucking training, 2-day training. And bro, oh my God, looking back, it was probably pretty traumatic, to be honest. Uh, it was, it was, it was intense. The movement was great. And it was fucking— we did this one exercise because I did this shit to try to get ready for, you know, to see people because I want to see 100 people a day. So I would do probably, it's like every couple weeks I would do 100 mock adjustments. Take me 2, 3 hours. So I'd lock myself in a room and I was saying people's names, right? This is all imaginary people. Hey John, good to see you. Welcome in. Go ahead and get you laid face down. Boom, boom, boom. And then I would do this like imaginary scan. I would do imaginary thoracic. I'd do an imaginary side posture, an imaginary cervical, right? And just boom. All right, next one. 100 people in a row. So day 2 of this training camp in Atlanta, we do something called the 100, and it took us like 3 or 4 hours. And what was fucking intense is we would just say what we wanted you to train. All right, we're gonna do, uh, you know, a C5. We had different names for it at the time. So say C5 on the right, you know, thoracic whatever, and it's the side posture whatever. So we give them like 3 adjustments to do. We get them lined up for the first one, and then on the clap you're gonna strike. Boom. But then there just happened to be this fucking drum in there. It was like Congo drum. And so every time we got to the tenth one, Lance would do this like, and then we'd give this fucked up scenario. Like fucked. Oh God! Oh man! Like woman comes in, thirty-five, just found out she lost the baby, and then we give them what adjustments to do. So we have people just fucking bawling and crying and like just fucked up shit. Like but it's like but we wanted to you know part of is we wanted to be able to hold the space right for a variety of shit. that can come in. How do you show up for this person? How do you show up for this person that just lost somebody? How do you find out? How do you show up for a person that just found out that their partner of 20 years has been cheating on them? So it's real life shit. But I mean, it probably could be done in a slightly better way, to be honest. But so we do this fucking crazy camp. We get pretty good feedback, you know, and we're like, okay, I think we still got something. So Lance, Lance has the balls to go ahead and organize us to do something for WCCS in Georgia, which ended up being the thing that took us to the next level, right? Because what ended up happening is we created this training. We ended up creating like 2 one-days. It was like 4 or 6-hour one-days. But there was at that time, there was like representation from 20 different schools around the world. So that was their intro to Adjusting Ninjas. And then what we did is then we created reps for these training camps and then fuck, dude, it was game on. We started doing 25 to 30 camps a year from 2000. Well, maybe it started mid-2014. So basically the first time we did that was 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. You know, and, um, yeah, I mean, crazy, man, looking back, because, you know, I had, I had a kid, you know, 2014 is when Jackson was born. And so he's about to turn 12, which is wild. And he's basically been alive on this as long as this journey's been going. But yeah, just a lot of fucking camps, a lot of trainings, a lot of seminars. I held a once-a-week adjusting group in my office, you know, for 3 years, called it Monday Night Ninjas, and then building things out. And yeah, so I've been to, I think, over 20 countries now, taught over 8,000 chiropractors and chiropractic students. I don't even know how many modules we've created. I think it took over 20 modules, over like 1,500 videos. I poured so much time, so much energy, so much love into, into the art, into the craft. And I feel really grateful, you know, in many ways for what was able to be developed. In the beginning, you know, there definitely was a lot of relationship to MLS. And me and Arno had a hard time, you know. I had always had a club and he knew about the club. And the club started before I ever was introduced to MLS. And I told him about it and told him how I wanted to do something with it. But when we started teaching seminars, you know, a lot of feedback that he had to get, right, from other people, you know, because at the time we were the first other professional training thing to exist, meaning that every other, you know, technique seminar didn't train like the way Arnold trained. You weren't doing the strikes, what they call— I mean, forgetting what they even call them— arcs.

Yeah.

Um, you know, in the air and doing the push-ups and all the other stuff. So like that, you just didn't see it, you know. And so like that, when we came in and then we're doing, you know, different types of movements and then all these other things, I think it was hard, you know. And so, you know, we had, we had a couple conversations. Um, and yeah, I mean, I wish it would have ended better, to be honest. I had a lot of love and respect for Arnaud, and it was hard at that time. Like, you know, just, you know, I, I wanted to be supportive I knew that there was, it was a time for something new to come through. And I will say in the beginning there, there was, you know, quite a bit of similarity. It was hard to not be. I was very inspired by Arno, right? The, to this day, easeful adjusting, Arno Bernier. Like, I don't know anybody else that taught it in that way. And we teach it that way, you know? So meaning that we're not trying to force something, we're looking for the ease and we're moving towards the ease. And, you know, ease is a concept of chiropractic, but I think Arno trained it in a way that made it tangible for people. And yeah, the, the professional level training. And then I would say, you know, like after like a couple years is when we really started to get more distinct in what we were doing, you know. And so our level of what I would call a discovery and analysis is much different. The strikes are different, the terminology. And so, you know, we, we do unilateral posterior facet dysfunction if you're just wanting to clear one side of a singular facet and what the indicators are for that specific thing versus an anterior. I think we also brought, you know, A different level of specificity.

Mm-hmm.

The, the language of tension and compression mechanisms, uh, within joints actually moved away from listings, to be honest, and just really understanding where joints are holding potential dysfunctional compression, which is often, but it can also be dysfunctional tension. Understanding ideal tone and ideal integrity and developing our language for like, you know, like the 3 Ds of subluxation. You know, you're gonna have some type of, of joint dysfunction and fascial distortion and muscle muscular derangement. And yeah, so like I feel really good now, you know, about, you know, the advancements and evolution of Kairos Training Culture to get to a place where it was, you know, standalone. And yeah, I do my best to acknowledge, you know, where things came from. There are some things that we teach in regards to opening moves, you know, these came from Jacob Merrick, you know, it's the long lever traction, kind of help clear the system, then using like a little bit of language of understanding like what you're really doing for the clearing of the system, you know, from BGI, you know, like just helping, helping create just a better surface where you can actually do a tonal scan. And so there's not a lot of BGI, to be honest, other than some of the, the larger understandings, but not, not in regards to an application. But I did Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, or BGI 1, 2, 3 with Dr. Sue Brown. That was a fucking blessing. I, you know, trained with Jay, with Arno. I was one of Arno's kind of helping facilitate, and I organized all his seminars. And, you know, something that I am proud of is In all of that time, right, when we were on our come up, you know, 2014 to 2019, at any given moment, if you went to any MLS seminar, 50+% were coming from Ninjas. I always referred people there. I always gave acknowledgement. I always gave credit. And, you know, now my— I'd say my greatest mentor now is Dr. Marvin Tolsky, still alive, God bless him. But, you know, as I, as I really kind of feel like I'm maxed out in the osseous world, I wanted to go deeper into understanding the subtle work. The gentle connections, the subtle energy, if you will. And Tolsky Tonal, man, and his philosophy, really his philosophy. Uh, like it just, it took me to a whole other level, opened me up in so many ways and has, has really expanded my consciousness in a way that has been profound. And I will, you know, to the day I die, give that man respect and honor. And it's been such an honor and such a privilege to bring more people to him. And I think that's kind of like what, what has gotten lost, you know, throughout the years. Is people that think like they can outgrow a mentor or something like, like if, and then like, I don't try to just discard them in some way. Like the lessons that I've learned from these people will always be with me. And it's like, it gives me joy to be able to acknowledge them and to say like, you know, like I really appreciate this person. You know, I really appreciate what they brought into my life. And that's, that's, uh, I think that's something that you don't see as much anymore of that. It's really the attribute of a great mentor. To bring you up in a good way. You know what I mean?

To build leaders. Yeah.

To build leaders. And it's just like, uh, for— yeah, but I, again, I've had a— I've had an odd experience in chiropractic, man. Yeah.

I want to transition now into— well, first off, look, I came up through KTC. That was my main influence. And then I had, you know, Jeremy Brooke as a personal influence and also, you know, went to a few MLS seminars. Very small percentage of my chiropractic training came from MLS, like 1 to 3%. 97% came from Kairos Training Culture. And, you know, went to a few Jay Comerick seminars, Autumn Gore, Katina, Lauren Kodak along the way, but those were just kind of one-off experiences. But like, I was dedicated to Kairos Training Culture. And so I was immersed in the culture. And, you know, whenever I started to build a relationship with Dr. Paul Ophili, and then after, after graduating and getting into practice and becoming so obsessed with the business and realizing that it was a 4-legged chair, as you mentioned, I saw that Dr. Paul Afili had something I wanted to be involved with. So I got involved with Samurai and I started helping him teach Samurai and I experienced an inflation of my ego. And so I, because I was an observer and he helped bring me up and kind of showed me the way, I was like, man, I could do this better. Like there's so many things here that he's doing well, but I could do it better. And like, this is all recycled stuff anyway. So like, what does it matter if I start my own thing? You know? And so I started my own thing and tried to call it my own thing and it rivaled or countered what Dr. Paul Ophili was doing. And dude, I've had to sit with that for the past 4 years, man. And, you know, I've sent tons of text messages to him just letting him know how much I appreciate him, but also how sincerely apologetic I am, you know, for how I acted, how I behaved in that, because I did let my ego start to just start to take over, you know.

Yeah.

And I was making decisions there that I probably shouldn't have. I should have paid more homage and had more respect for, for Paul and done as you did and been referring people to him and, uh, you know, letting people know that like, this is where the lineage came from. I just wanted to put my own spin on it. So I think, you know, there's, there's these, there's these times where like you have such great mentors that light a fire within you and, you know, you're, you're ready to take the torch and start to pass on what, what you called like your own like discovery, assimilation, synthesis. And then you executed, dude. You built something that was unique, you know? And so now I think I would like to transition into like why The chiropractic and the chiropractor, you know, like the landscape of chiropractic and why, first off, we're like so hypercritical of other chiropractors and how it has potentially become overwhelmingly toxic in this profession, you know? And I know that you of all people know that to be true. So if you want to go there, I'd like to go there.

Mm-hmm.

And just see like what, what has been your perspective over the past 12 years of, first off, Where are we as chiropractic, as a collective of chiropractors? And then where are we headed as chiropractic, the profession?

Chiropractic's dying. And I'll go on with that. And the profession is dying. And the profession is fucking hella toxic. The profession is racist. The profession is da da da da. I mean, and it's funny because like people will hear me say this, and this is exactly why I haven't got the opportunities that I feel like I was well deserving of. And so I do want to go back just a little bit and let's get into this. Because I think this will help provide context if people actually understand the other side of it. I told you about everything that was built and like all the people that I got trained and some of the inspiration and, and also tell you kind of what's coming next because KTC is becoming a technique. It's gonna be called Tone Technique, and I'll go into more of that in a moment too. But while all this was happening, I say thank God for my brother's death. Thank God for the fucking trauma I came from and the background and the pain and the fucking hurt. Because as I started, right, to, to make these moves and as these seminars grew and as this wave Hit, you know, definitely the chiropractic student population, which, you know, became the future generation of chiropractors. Because at that time, nothing was bigger than KTC.

We had—

we're doing the most seminars in the world, and we're doing the biggest seminars in the world. This is what it is. I'd say for about 5 years or so, at least. And so as all this is happening, I'm getting fucking slammed, bro, left and right. They never came for Lance. They only came for me, right? Because Lance was a counterpart. I was the artist lead, right? The artistry lead. So I was the one who was studying and developing and refining. And that's what all these fucking camps did, by the way. Like, you know, you teach 30 fucking seminars, 2-day seminars a year, plus hold fucking calls once a week and all that stuff, you're gonna fucking go deep, right? And also, as all this is happening, dude, I can't tell you how much shit I got. Like thousands of chiropractors talking so much fucking shit on everything that we were doing, from the way that I looked Right? From the way that I adjusted. A lot of people don't fucking know this, but like legitimately it created a whole fucking genre and style in chiropractic. Chiropractic adjusting flows, you didn't see them before I came into the scene. I'm not saying that they weren't fucking happening, but when you talk about like going on YouTube and seeing an actual fucking flow adjust, I was the first person to go and adjust multiple people just to music on YouTube. At the time you were seeing like white coat shit, right? It was like, oh, we got this person here today. And people were talking shit on that too. Cause like, oh wait, should we be showing what we're doing? Like, you shouldn't be showing an adjustment on, on, on, on video because people are gonna think it's scary. And now it's like all you see from chiropractors, right? But yeah, I mean, just adjusting with my own style, flow, swag, like that, that is what it is. Now you watch this whole fucking population, it's like they've— and again, there's nothing wrong with it, but they emulated a fucking style that I got so much shit talked about for years, you know? Damn, just being Black, racist fucking shit, dude. Mad racist shit. Other techniques, like every time we would go to a school and do a talk, There'd be rallies of other techniques and from the doctors of these techniques to fucking get it canceled. I made videos just talking about my experience as a Black chiropractic student having no— I had no Black professors, we had no Black staff, we had no Black fucking admin. There was honestly nobody Black in any position of leadership was at that school at that time. They came later. We had 9 seminars, Friday seminars every quarter. I think it was 8 or 9 of them. Those are 12 quarters. Do the math. 120 seminars, never had anybody Black there, not one time. I went to, I think I told you, 7-ish seminars every quarter. So at least, what, 80 seminars? Never saw a Black speaker, never had a Black instructor, right? And so I would just talk about it and then get fucking— yeah, I mean, I lost all my opportunities by saying that there was any type of discrimination or any type of fucking racism in chiropractic. But you look at the fucking numbers, chiropractic is the least diverse health profession in the world. And then if you do the fucking research and you look at the history, there's a reason for that. Right? They were one of the slowest to bring in, right, the diversity and actually unite, you know, Black people being allowed to attend these schools. The integration didn't happen until much later. But then it wasn't just the integration, it was the discrimination. So it's like lack of opportunity, right? Lack of inclusion. Um, and then again, exactly what I fucking experienced. One of the reasons that people were saying the shit the way they're saying it is because I was fucking Black, bro. And so, and then some people say victim, like, fuck me, go fuck yourself, victim shit, dude. I've overcome everything you fucking have ever thrown at me. So tell me how I'm a fucking victim. Um, just because I fucking will talk about it from every, you know, just like here and there. It's not something I'm fucking gonna catch from me all the fucking time. I'm not living in this fucking sob story, but I might mention it every fucking 5 years and everything happens every fucking time. I get fucking opportunities taken away every time I do it. So I got blacklisted from shit because of things that I've either said that was true about the school, right? So these schools saying that they're vitalistic and they're fucking not. From some of these, you know, quote unquote leads in the profession just not wanting me to be there. In 2018, I had an opportunity to be a fucking MC, not speak, MC at The Wave, which is Life West, the school that I come from. And there was a fucking— what do you call it? They basically tried to— there was a, I think, a petition, a petition to have me not be an MC there based on fucking what? But if you actually look, go look, look at the alumni from the last fucking 13 years from Life West and you tell me who's done more than I have and will not be invited to speak at the fucking school, will not be invited to speak at most of the schools, you know, because, because again, I always showed up for the fucking student, right? I showed up for the chiropractor-to-be. Not for the fucking institution, because a lot of these institutions are fucking whack, and I'll say it to the fucking face, and they don't like that, right? They don't like being called out for where they're missing and when they're trying to force vaccinations on fucking students during COVID and all the fucking shit, and I stand up for them. So yeah, I mean, I've been that voice in chiropractic that really is, you know, counterwave, if you will, because I'll see where a majority is going, and I'm often the one going the other way. In Native teachings for the Lakota, they call that the Hioka. Right, the one that walks the opposite direction. I realized how much of a Heyoka I've been in the chiropractic profession this whole fucking time. But here's the thing that people fucking miss is the Heyoka is one of the most celebrated people in the culture because they're the ones that are there to show you, am I going the right fucking way? Because if you're, if you're the majority, you're all going this way and all of a sudden the Heyoka comes going this way, it's gonna have you question, is this, is this what's right? Am I doing the right thing? Is this really where we really want to go? So I'm off— I'm often that voice, right? I'm seeing what the majority's fucking doing and I'm gonna question it. And often I'm gonna question in a way that's gonna have you fucking look at it and hopefully refine it to make it fucking better. But because of these things, yeah, man, I don't get any opportunity to do fucking shit in the States. All my shit that I've done and had opportunities for has been international. And I would say the most racism exists in the United States. I just had a conversation with somebody that I did a speaking engagement in London this last year. And one of the leaders of that, he told me, he's like, He's not. He's from South Africa. He's like, bro, when you used to talk about racism, I didn't understand it until I moved to the United States. He moved to the United States a couple years ago. So once I moved here, I was like, oh fuck, it is much different here. I was like, because he has a team of you know that have have you know different cultures and and black people on it. And he's like, nobody ever said anything until I came to the States. He's like, they're like they question him like, you have you have so many black people on your team. How did you do that? Or da da da. He's like, that was never a fucking anything anywhere anywhere else except the one I was here. So I've had to overcome a lot. And the the reason I want to mention this, the reason I feel like I've been able to is because of the pain that I come from. Because to me, somebody talking shit online was nothing compared to, you know, losing your brother, compared to losing your mom, compared to, you know, breaking through depressive cycle and suicidal cycle and all this other shit. And the other big one was like having a purpose that's bigger than yourself.

Mm-hmm.

This whole time I sacrificed myself. That's what people don't understand about like the true nature of community, which I'll get to in a moment. I didn't care what people would say about me because to me it was much bigger than me, right? You know, the original mission, right, was to help elevate the art of chiropractic to evolve human consciousness, period. And chiropractic saved my life in so many ways. And so I knew that if I could train chiropractors to a certain level, that they had to give that opportunity to somebody else, and somebody else would still be here because of the training. And so that was bigger than me. It was a couple years ago we had my, my 10 years in chiropractic. It was fucking crazy because, um, we're going around the circle and, uh, people are, are sharing kind of like, you know, what I would have meant to their life. It was just an opportunity to And, um, I had shared that, you know, like if I had to, you know, share like what one of my greatest accomplishments was, is like, because I remember why I got into it and why I trained the way that I did, because my mom was fucking suicidal. And I said, man, if I can get my hands on my mom, save my mom's life. And, um, we don't always get to be the person right for our family, but I don't— and thank God she's still here. But, um, throughout my career, you know, it was like over, over 50 people that, uh, have told me, yo, I'm still here because of you, man. And we're going around this circle. I'll forget it. It was one of these, uh, one of my clients, one of my patients. And just everybody just shared. And he goes, 51. And you know, the crazy thing is we— a lot of people don't talk about it, you know? So it's like, for everybody that does share, there's probably 10 more that don't. And so yeah, man, I had a big fucking purpose. Still have a big purpose. And it came at a massive sacrifice. And I was talking to you a little bit on the pre-chat, you know, it's like, I'm a community guy, man. I'm here because of community. You know, there's many times I wanted to drop out of this fucking profession. There's many times I want to drop out of chiropractic school, and I kept going because of looking around and seeing who was to my left and who was to my right. And I was like, I can't stop now. I can't stop now. So there's, there's a, there's a big misconception about fucking community. I think, um, in a lot of ways community's dead, man. Just like this fucking profession's fucking dying. Because when most people view community, they're looking at what they can get out of it. Because I'm in relationship with this, because I'm in relationship with this training and what I'm going to receive and not what I'm going to fucking contribute. Because here's the reality of community is that there are times where I need help, right? And so yes, I'll receive from my community in the ways that I'm contributing, but there's sometimes somebody else is going to fucking need help. And a true community is willing to share the workload and the sacrifice, because maybe there's one year, right? Like so if I go back to the tribal nature of all this, and I'm that we we're the hunter-gatherer society, and there's a year where fuck man, I did really fucking well, and I fucking prepped the right seeds, and I had a really good fucking grow, and da da da da da. But my neighbor didn't. So if I'm part of that fucking community, am I gonna share? Or my fucking there was just a huge fucking storm, and my my neighbor's structure got taken out. Am I gonna go show up? For debt, you know, sacrifice my time on continuing to build what I have and go show up and help them build and, and so that they can be safe. And, uh, KTC was an experimenting community, and I would say unfortunately, right, I got to see the dark side of it, man. I sacrificed— nobody sacrificed— I'm gonna tell you this, nobody sacrificed fucking more than me in that shit until this day. I've taught 25 seminars for nothing or at a loss, you know. I, I've, I've donated I can't tell you how many fucking hours to online fucking calls KTC, you know, lead facilitator calls, group facilitator calls, community calls, contributing to the Facebook group and then Mighty Network and then all these other fucking— all for fucking free. And then, you know, the expansion of that, you know, with The Source, which we'll see if we got time for today. Um, and when you are sacrificing yourself, and it's not always, right? But when you're taking those moments to sacrifice yourself, you do create a weakness for yourself. And I had people that exploited when I was sacrificing everything that I had at a point of weakness.

Right.

Because here's the truth, if I'm helping you and I'm helping you and I'm helping you, I'm helping you and I'm helping you, I'm helping you, what happens, right? My own house becomes vulnerable. And so when the ego, right, of others had the perception of reaching a point where that they had more strength, uh, they took advantage of it. There's been multiple people that have done that. And, you know, I don't want to say that's, that's limited to chiropractic, but I say, you know, the chiropractic profession itself, man, I'm sorry, And I'm not sorry, but from my experience, it's fucking whack, bro. It's, it's the profession itself. It's, it's, it's toxic. It's highly competitive in all the wrong fucking ways. We like to compete with each other instead of competing at being best in the fucking world. And as much as I've spoke to that, like, I'm, I've never come to this day, I've never competed with another chiropractor. I'm to this day, I've never talked shit on another chiropractor. You could go through the Adjusting Ninja, which became KTC Facebook group. It's existed for like fucking what, since 2012? You'll never see us talk bad about any technique or other chiropractor ever. Now, again, fuck whatever that means, I don't know, but nobody's worse than chiropractic in talking about other chiropractors. So we are the most toxic health profession in the world. And then you can go to all the other aspects of it, which, you know, it's just like for me, I feel like it's a fucking sinking ship. It's a sinking ship. Now, till the day I fucking die, I will love chiropractic. and I will be a chiropractor. But fuck the chiropractic profession.

I think it's hard to feel any other way for you.

Yeah, I mean, I'm here to share my truth. And like, again, it is what it is, and it ain't everybody's truth. Because I tell you right now, it's funny because like when I talk about racism in chiropractic, you have all— I'm sorry, all the fucking white motherfuckers that want to come out and they want to talk about how there's no racism in chiropractic because you ain't experienced it. How the fuck would you know? Like, it's like, it's true.

I saw it in your profile.

It's that fucking simple. But it's— but again, but if you enjoy it, you don't even know until you start to fucking step outside of it. Man. And so yeah, the space, you know, I've had to, I've had to go quiet online, you know, for some time to really go through some healing because I had some people try to fuck me over, man. I had some people try to fuck me over bad and then make up fucking stories and lies and all this other fucking shit. And this is one thing that I learned because I know we want to talk about some lessons. Integrity has a long timeline, right? Integrity, meaning like you don't— people won't see integrity for sometimes years. I kept my integrity. I kept my integrity with my fucking body during COVID I kept my fucking integrity with the training. I kept my integrity and not fucking lying and being a piece of fucking shit when I could. Right, to manipulate situations in my fucking favor. I kept my fucking integrity. I kept my integrity not talking shit about other fucking chiropractors and their techniques and their shit, because again, there's a lot of whack-ass shit that I see, but it's not my job to try to talk shit on other chiropractors because I've always tried to elevate the profession, you know. The last fucking— since I've— since I became a student, since 2006, 16 years trying to elevate the fucking profession at my own fucking sacrifice multiple times. And so, uh, kept my integrity. But when there was some breaks in integrity Right. There was some immediate benefit to those that broke the fucking integrity. And people don't care. So this is another hard business lesson, right? There's values of perception. Values of perception. And people will try to get or pay, pay the least amount for it that they can. So if I, if I perceive something to be similar, but I can pay less for it, then I'm gonna do that. It don't matter how, how, where it came from, if it was stolen, if it was built on child labor. I mean, he's going just general business shit, right? I don't give a fuck. As long as the value perception, right? It's just a fucking perception. And so stories can get made up, things can get said, things can get manipulated, and blah blah blah blah blah. And most people don't care to figure it out as long as they feel like they're getting from it. So yeah, we had all this stuff that happened with Kairos, right? Which again, Kairos is still a fucking beautiful space. The people that needed to make exits made exits. So the people that are there, God bless you. I wanted to give a huge shout out to Hannah Donald. She stepped up big time because as I was going through a lot of this shit, and it has to do with one of my other businesses, And in relationship to Kairos in some way, because that person used to be involved with it. She stepped up. People weren't willing to hear from me. They usually aren't, to be honest. They don't want the truth from me. They'd rather have a manufactured, you know, you know, comfortable lie than the inconvenient truth. But I'm here to share inconvenient truths because I don't give a fuck. But Hannah Donohue stepped up. I said, right now, to be honest, I feel like I've been kind of losing connection with the students because I've grown, right? I mean, I'm fucking— I've been in practice fucking 13 years now, so it's like I don't have the same Relativity anymore anyway, so I don't necessarily know I'm the best one to be teaching those anyway. I want to move more into the doctor shit anyway, so it's like doing more doctor-level certifications, higher-level courses, you know, retreats, all those other things. And so for me, like it was time for me to step away. She stepped up, and she stepped up as that work was being appropriated at an exponential level. Exponential level. Now what what I realized was they didn't pay the sacrifice, and they don't have integrity. And so the truth will always be revealed, but it takes time, and sometimes takes longer than you would think. You know, so we're we're two years plus, and I think it's starting to come out. Now you start to see it. You're gonna start seeing it in multiple places. But let me give it give another give another year or two. You'll see it. And but integrity lasts, but integrity takes time. And so you guys, so that that's why most people break integrity. It's fucking uncomfortable to be the one that stayed in integrity, that held the fucking standard, but be the one that's suffering because of it. That's hard to stand. So then you're like, okay, well, what if I right? Those things start coming up. Well, what if I just didn't give a fuck? What if I lowered the standard? What if I started breaking my own integrity? What if I started fucking manipulating right? I'd probably do it better than Baba. No, fuck that. Now it's ego. So yeah, you gotta sit in it. You gotta sit in it. You'll be the one with more integrity. You're the one with more truth. But right now nobody wants to hear you. Yeah, when some of these breaks were happening, right, I offered it up to, to, you know, again, it's nothing against them because I understand students just want to, you know, students want to do their shit and they want to learn and they don't want, they don't want the quote-unquote drama. But nobody cared about the truth from the person that actually created the fucking training. So here you all are benefiting from the training, going to these training groups, going to these training clubs. All our club facilitators get comped to every fucking camp that they go to. That too, right? Which is a beautiful thing. Great thing. I did— I've done it. Like I said, I've done a lot for Kairos. I don't know anybody who's been more of a community guy than me because I don't know anybody who's brought up more leaders than me, right? I think we were talking about this in the pre-chat too, because when I was coming up, most of your seminars were led by one person, maybe two, right? And then it was me and Lance, two, always dynamic duo. Again, I was the artistry lead and he was the movement lead, but we brought other leads in very quickly. I've talked— there's over— the thing has been over 15 lead facilitators with Kairos Brain Culture training around the world. Nobody else has done that. And then all the club facilitators that we empower as leaders, right? And so all of this training that people are benefiting from, and then when the person that created it is going through this thing and people become aware of, they don't care to learn the truth. So I had to sit in that. Yeah. So I mean, I'll be honest, like, I've— I have hesitated sharing again in a good way because there's part of me that's just like, my work can be stolen, legacy can be destroyed, the fucking people don't give a fuck. They're going to continue to learn from people that that did this and don't care to even discover the truth about it. But I've had to move past that, you know. But it was, it was, I had to sit in it for like a couple years, bro. Source Franchise, I'll make it quick, man. We launched the Source Franchise in 2021, right? Had some people involved. And, um, I want to talk about one of the biggest sacrifices I ever made. I started the Source Franchise, you know, with, with a few others, you know, Dr. Jordan Fairley, Darren, and another one, because we wanted to bring integrity and standard, high standards to chiropractic practice in a good way. And the only way to really do that is a franchise system because that's where Monitor the standards. Otherwise, you got to be owner. But I didn't want to be owners in all these businesses, right? I don't want to because also it's also pain in the ass if you're trying to own another chiropractic practice in a different state because sometimes you need to be licensed in that state. I don't want to do all that shit, and I didn't want a licensing system because a licensing system I have no thing with over the no control over the operations manual or how things get done. So from my awareness at that point, the way to do it was in a franchise model. I don't love the fucking franchise model, but that was the way to hold the standard over the last five years, 2021 and 26. Of my own money, 250 grand. I can't. I can't tell you how many fucking hours. I never saw a dime from the fucking franchise. Sacrificed countless hours building and distributing all the systems, going through all the legal processes, coaching, bringing people on. Da da da da da da da. And again, it was a it was a long-term play. We never got there because I had people take advantage of my sacrifice. So a lesson learned there is I'm not making long-term plays without some level of reciprocity. So if I'm not feeling like I'm receiving, then I can't keep going because it will kill me. And I got a family to take care of, you know? And so I'm not willing to sacrifice the same way I was willing to sacrifice before. When it comes to, you know, like philanthropy, service, goodwill, you know, like I'll sacrifice in those ways. You know, a lot of people don't know, you know, from 21 to 25, I was a Sundancer, you know, Lakota Sundancer. So as all this stuff was happening with COVID and blah, blah, blah, blah, and I was— I moved to Tucson, Arizona to open another practice and I got I got connected to the Lakota and I made one of the greatest sacrifices you can make. Blood in your flesh, man. 4-day, no food, no water. Sundance every year. You know, I'm committed and contributed as much as I could to those communities, man. And what's crazy is like, even though like obviously there was never any financial reciprocity, I'd feel reciprocity there because the lessons and the connection and the communication. So it's like reciprocity isn't about money. I definitely learned that from them. I learned a lot from them, and shout out to the Lakota. Lakota Oyate. But yeah, man, I've been fucking through it, bro. I've been through it for the last really I'd say four or five years, and it intensified over the last two. But the good news is shit shook out. I went through the healing process. I'm still going through, but I fucking feel like I'm a lot better than I fucking was. And the people that that that are no longer there were never supposed to be there anyway. And so it's taking some time, and I appreciate you holding the space for me to hop on today to be able to share you know at least some. Like I imagine. There's a part 2 to this, you know, like a part 3. I don't fucking know, but it's just like, I don't— I can't even tell you last time I did a chiropractic podcast. It's been years. Um, so is chiropractic dying and/or what's next? You know the stats. Chiropractic, you know, registration schools is way down, student population down, debt-to-income ratio is fucking through the roof. I think it would be interesting to get together some type of mastermind and talk about what is the next steps. But for me, the reality of the toxicity Sometimes you got to step outside the system. And so we'll see, we'll see what happens, we'll see what the future holds. I just— it's hard for me to justify sending anybody to chiropractic school in the state of chiropractic profession right now. But as my mentor Marvin Toschi says, you know, the principles will live, you know. And he's committed to the principles, as I am. I'm committed to the chiropractic principle. I'm committed to that innate intelligence, the innate philosophy connected to the greater universal intelligence. We'll always be. And I hold integrity in that, man. I'm somebody that hasn't taken over-the-counter medication since 2010, since I started chiropractic school. And I know a lot of Principled chiropractors that do. I'm somebody that, you know, hasn't fucked around with TRT and all this other shit that people want to inject in their bodies when I could, right? I could make a lot of money off that. Integrity, it ain't for me right now.

No.

And, you know, I'm also somebody that ain't taking a lot of fucking other drugs. A lot of chiropractors out there messing with these fucking other drugs. I mean, it's out of fucking integrity. I'm a natural guy, man. I, I do connect with some of the, the medicines, right? But they come from the earth. So the medicines that come from the earth, but I ain't fucking with your synthetic party shit. Nope, ain't for me. I've been drinking alcohol since, you know, since, um, since 21, since I, I committed to be a Sundancer and carry a chanupa. So I'm living the best life I can. It's not judgment on anybody else's life, you know. It's just like, I just feel like there's a lot of lack of fucking integrity. People don't really give a fuck about it. People are stealing shit. People don't care. But whatever, we, we will continue. We'll continue showing up. And what it does force, right, in some ways it does force you to get creative again. And not that I ever stopped being creative, but I had to go through a lot of loss, you know, um, in many ways to, to really like Come back to the drawing table and be like, you know, what would I do different? And I think one of the things I'll do different is I'll just— I discern at a higher level now, for sure. Like, to me, the, the, the tells are always there. Like, now looking back at some of the ways it's played, the tells were always there, you know. It's just I chose to potentially not give them much attention or to ignore them. So the tells are there. Most people show you who they are right away. They'll show you, especially like when you come in strong, when you're— when your energy's strong, when your energy's pure, they show you who the fuck they are right away. And so keep the distance that you need.

Right.

But, um, I would say, you know, like from all of this, because I haven't, I haven't mentioned this. So what happened, right, is that, um, here's something unique with The Source. And The Source, basically, I developed back in 2014 this scoring system for functional care plans. So basically, like at the time, you only had people that were making up care plans or basing them off x-ray degeneration charts, right? So you're a level 1, level 2, level 3, level 4 degeneration. So you're gonna get this amount of visits. The people that didn't do that, most of them were making up care plans. I don't know, come when you want to see me, or let's just do a 3-2-1, right? 3 times a week, 2 times a week, 1 time a week. I don't know. So I was like, ah man, I want to be specific, but I don't want to be x-raying everybody. So let me, let me figure out how to do a functional scoring system. So we created that. I created basically a score for health presentation on how you're appearing and how to score that effectively. And then on the functional stuff that we do. So we do, you know, overhead squat, we do watch your gait, we do range of motion, we do muscle tests, we do you know, chiropractic-specific tests and, you know, checking for subluxation and fixation. And then posture, when we did it at one point, we had TITRON as well. So I was scoring the TITRON thermography. So I figured out how to score all these things and then started doing specific care plans for that. And then was doing it in a team environment and a team language, you know, spoken more in a tone of love than fear. That was another big thing. Everybody that was selling care plans was doing it with fear. I've been part of those coaching groups. You know, I first started, I'm not gonna name names because I don't need to put them down, but I was part of a few coaching groups that was doing fear-based tactics for sales, right? If you don't get this care, this will happen, right? I don't do— I was like, we can leave people with love. This is what can get better. So modeled that, created that, and then we tested it in a new market with Dr. Darren in Denver. It worked. And that was in 2019. And then we just, you know, made the decision to franchise it in '21. And then, yeah, we had one of, one of the groups, one of the shareholders basically go rogue, started withholding truth and then end up lying and then breaking agreements. And in that, you know, everything that I created and had been restricting myself again as sacrifice because I could have been teaching this stuff one-on-one to chiropractors for whatever money, you know, hey, I'll coach you for 10 grand. I'll coach you for 15 grand. I did not coach anybody from 21 to 26 because I was in a franchise model. So the person that broke away started teaching all my shit, started teaching business. What business? You know, I'm the only business that you know. And yeah, so had to deal with that. So Going through all of it, right, is at this moment, it forced me, right, to innovate again. Even though at the time I was like trying to teach, because again, you have to go, you have to innovate, and then you got to teach what you innovated if you're wanting to grow in community. So that's what I was doing. I'd go innovate, I teach what I innovated, go discover, teach what I create, you know. So just, okay, boom, boom, boom. But also distributing all this information of where we had already done, because now again, at this point, it's like 12 years of accumulated experience and knowledge and wisdom. And it was teaching the people and teaching the people and teaching the people. And then boom, breaking integrity, breaking trust. So now what? Well, we got to fucking innovate again. That's Resourced, the remix. That's Tone Technique, which we'll be launching here in the fall, November. This next certification, full spine certification I do, it's first time ever in the United States. I taught the first one in Australia— I'm sorry, in Germany in 2023. And then I taught the second one in Australia in 2024. And this, this third one You know, we're dropping tone technique. So it's time, right? Because I've had 16 years now of refinement and evolution to feel good about putting forth something that is unique, distinct, and inspired, and sharing the actual knowledge, the history, the wisdom of how this came to be and how to take care of people in a good way through principles of tone. And that's been my biggest study, you know, over the last, I'd say, 5 years of tone, just going deep into frequency and tone. And so resource is here because of my pain. Tone Technique will be here because of my pain. And so God bless the pain and God bless the ability to endure. And if you get the ability to endure, this is where you can transform, right? This is where you can transmutate your wounds into blessings. And so the blessings are here, but it took a lot of fucking time, bro. A lot of processing and a lot of healing and a lot of sacrifice. And so I'm glad to be here.

Glad you're here as well. Thank you for sharing all of that. You made this easy for me, brother. You've made this easy for me. You know, I know that there's a big percentage of the listeners right now that are grateful, first off, and, uh, are more well-informed, I would say, and heard the truth from the source. And I think that this gives rise to another opportunity, you know, because I want to expand on some of these things. I want to learn more about what's next, what is and what's next, you know. And I appreciate you wearing your scars like medals, man, because there are a lot of people that run from this. And, um, you've been the bison, bro, running into the storm, you know. And I can see that, and I appreciate that. And again, just to reiterate the intro of this podcast, like, that's what this is all about, man. It's about the man in the arena. It's about the gladiator, you know. It's not about the critic casting stones of judgment on the doer of deeds where they could have done them better, you know. You've been iterating and reiterating and innovating and creating and executing and building and pushing and persevering and taking a lot of arrows, you know. And I imagine the weight that that's had on you. Just going back to your point on community, you know, it seems like you've given a lot of yourself. And so I hope that you're surrounded by people that are supporting you through this phase of life and have been for the past 5 years. Because I've— I, I could tell, man, from an outsider's perspective, you know, that you, uh, They, you went silent for a bit, you know? And so I know that, that, that process was integral for you to integrate. But I also hope that you were able to receive in that and that you were supported by people that loved you unconditionally, you know? And I hope that we get to see the phoenix rise because I've seen the momentum and I've seen the energy shift and I can feel it from afar. And so I know it's there and it's alive and it's well, and I'm excited to see what comes next.

Yeah, man. Thank you for the space. Thank you for the integration. Thank you for noticing. Thank you for offering, you know, for me to come into this podcast. And I would like to end with acknowledgment, you know, for the people in my life that have, that have been in integrity and continue to show up, you know, for me in a good way. And obviously my wife, you know, amongst the top of that list, and my good friend Lindsay Coulterman. I have to acknowledge them too right away. And there's others. There's many others. And I do pray that I can continue to acknowledge that. And I, I, you know, I don't, I don't want to keep bitterness, you know. I don't want to keep that, you know. I don't want to keep that, that outlook of, um, distrust. I want to acknowledge the people that are there in a good way always and continue to share my love, you know, and my abundance in a good way. And, and I pray, I pray that for you too, man. This, this journey of life is interesting, right? And it will test you in so, so many ways. I just pray that, you know, for those that have a good heart, you know, and mean well, that we can keep Because there's a lot, there's a lot out there that's trying to turn it, man. And so, yeah, we keep showing up in the best ways we can that, you know, when we need to recover, we recover, you know. When we need to heal, we heal. When we need to be supported, that we're supported. And when it's time to fucking go again, fucking send it, burn the fucking boats. So let's go.

That's right. We need, we need good leaders out there, man. We need good leaders out there more than ever in multiple domains and dimensions, you know. And I see that in you. So I appreciate you being here. You know, if there's nothing, nothing else you want to leave the audience with, then I say we, we call it for today. And to be continued.

To be continued. If you'd like to connect with me, November 5th through 8th, full spine certification here in Tucson, Arizona at Resource. The introduction of Tone Technique and beyond. And you can come see the remix of what we've built from the pain. So if you want to talk about that Phoenix rising, November 5th through 8th. See you there.