EP058: How to Balance Your Practice and Your Family with Jon Vroman

Welcome to the Perfect Practice podcast where we share the most innovative strategies to help you build a successful functional medicine business, attract your ideal patients, serve your community, and get paid what you're worth. Each episode is packed with practical steps that you can take to immediately grow your influence and serve more people. Our mission is to share golden nuggets from successful practitioners, technology experts and innovators from around the world. Your host, Sachin Patel is a functional medicine and success coach, international speaker and best selling author. He's calling in all his favors to bring this information to you so you can create your perfect practice.

Hello everyone and welcome to Perfect Practice. This is Sachin Patel and today I've got a very special guest. Somebody who's become a dear friend and somebody that you can get on a call with and have an amazing jam session with. In fact, we had about a half hour jam session before this conversation started. My friend, John Vrooman. John, thanks for being here today.

Hey man. So good, I'm excited to chat.

So you are the founder of Front Row Dads and the reason you're on this interview today or on this podcast today is A, because you're super cool and I want to share you with my audience and B, because like me, you're a father and C, you're super committed to bringing fathers back to the forefront in the family unit. And you know, really thing that a lot of practitioners struggle with and I struggle with is how we can become super awesome parents. Because of course, making the world a better place starts in our home by modeling, you know, what it is to be a good human being to our children. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. I super appreciate you and I know everyone listening today is going to really enjoy this conversation that we have today.

Well, dude, as you know that I'm just a super fan of what you do. When you came to one of our retreats and our guys are still talking about it, I would beg to say, and it hasn't been a competition, but you've been the favorite, most impactful guest we've ever had at a retreat. And I'm sorry if there's any other guests out there listening to this episode, but it's true, man, you had a massive positive impact on our group.

Thank you, I appreciate that. And as we were talking about a little bit earlier, what I love about that is that when they're talking about me, they're talking about themselves and up leveling their game and becoming better versions. And again, it's not about being the best version it's about being a better version because how we define our best is something that changes as we evolve and become better every day. And that's what I love. That's what I love about your message. It's about becoming better, right. And, you know, stepping into what your role is in the family unit and a big challenge that, you know, a lot of people struggle with, not just healthcare providers, but certainly that's the area of interest today. A lot of people struggle with, you know, career, family and parenthood. Right. So what got you diving deep down this rabbit hole and doing some amazing work in this area?

Well, it's what you just said. And by the way, that is the number one concern. When new men join the community, we ask what is their biggest challenge? And that's always the one. It's work, life, balance, as they'll say. But really it's figuring out how to juggle it all. And for me, the story goes back. Well, if we talk about front row dads, the story goes back to when my son was and I realized that I wasn't being a great dad and a husband, that I had talked about it. I remember like when my wife was pregnant, I was like, I'm going to be the best dad. I'm going to read every dad, but I'm going to read hundreds of dad's books, right? Then six years later, I was like, I read two dad's books, you know, or two books on parenting or what, you know, and it was just because my business was always in startup mode. I was like, one more project, one more thing. Let me get that book out there. Let me get that book. That event launch, it was always one more thing. And the reality is that I just had to get honest with myself. And it actually, it happened in the most unusual place. I was at a party and somebody said, what do you do? And I started to answer that I was a speaker and an author and I run this charity. And then finally I just said, you know, I said, I'm a dad and I'm a husband and when I'm not doing that, I do a couple other things. And it felt so good to say that. It was almost like the pressure was off of having to be somebody that I really wasn't in my heart. Now, the truth was, as soon as I said it, I was like, well, that's not how I'm acting. That fight might feel in alignment, but my calendar said I'm a businessman that happens to have a family and what I wanted to be was a family man. That happens to have a business. And I realized that there were so many breakthroughs that came when that, you know, afterwards that thought hit me. And then it became the work of, like, how do I react, format my life? How do I redesign my calendar so that, you know, I can be that guy? And that's what we did. So that's, you know, we started the dad's group. I always say I didn't start the dad's group because I was crushing it as a husband and a dad, and I wanted to tell everybody how to do it. I started it because I was getting crushed, and I wanted answers. And so I said, well, let me get my friends together and let's learn together on this journey.

I love that. That's so inspiring, man. It actually gives all of us permission to. To collaborate with people. Like, just that vulnerability of saying that I was getting crushed and I wasn't necessarily crushing it is such a huge testament to your personality and your continuous strive for growth because you realize that, hey, I can grow way faster learning from other people, kind of masterminding and connecting and going deep, and everyone brings something to the table, right? Instead of trying to become the best dad in the entire universe that's ever existed, which. How does that ever even happen? How long will that take?

Right?

And then. And then trying to bring people into that ecosystem. I mean, I love that you did that because it allowed you to probably learn in leaps and bounds so quickly and then put some amazing ideas together through this group. And when I was there last year, it was amazing. It was, like, one of my favorite places that I've ever spoken. It was really fun because we got to go deep, and it was meaningful because I was able to, you know, speak to other people. As a dad, normally when I go to conferences, I'm speaking to them as an entrepreneur or a businessman. And I loved how you created a safe space where that was not going to be the topic of conversation. Right. It wasn't the focus of the event. And I love that you had this revelation, of all places, of course, at a party. But that's when they come to us, right? It's in that kind of. In that white space when we have time to reflect. And my bio, it's really cool that you said that, because in my bio, the first thing I write is father and husband. And it's amazing how many people actually recognize that and come up to me after my talk and say something or comment about that. So it's great to see that, a, we share the same values. But there's other people that also share the same values. And I think if we dig down deep enough, I think everyone who's a parent wants to become a better parent or work to become the best version that they can of themselves. What do you think stops people from that? Because I think intuitively we know that. But what are the roadblocks that you find?

Well, you know, first, let me speak for myself. I mean, what it was for me was an ego. It was. And I would have never said it was that, right? I never would have admitted that it was that. But it was wanting so desperately to fulfill my mission in the world that it does get you trapped in the, hey, I'll just do that this week or this month or this year. I remember saying that to my wife. I'm going to work really, really hard, and then I'm going to get this going. But really, that meant was that I desperately wanted to build that thing to be important in the world, and that's really what it was. So a lot of times, I think what stands in our way of being great men is our absolute and what sometimes is a very healthy obsession or addiction to our work. But when we find so much momentum there, we see progress and we put so much into it that it's often difficult to want to go home and not know what to do there. So we go hide at work. I mean, that's really what happens. We hide at work. We say, like, I'm gonna provide for my family. I'm gonna show my kids how to work hard. You know, I want to teach my kids about work ethic and discipline. And you go, that's great. And you should do that. Discipline, work ethic, those are good things for kids to learn that you can demonstrate. But it doesn't mean having to give away your relationship with them for a lifetime in order to teach them that. But we can certainly hide behind that. It's a convenient excuse to go be rock stars on stage. Because a lot of times that's what we get at work is significance. And we get home and we realize this is tough, right? Or this is difficult, and I need to learn a whole new thing. And a lot of guys feel like they're just in this role of, like, if I provide for my family and love them, that's enough. And I go, no, it's not. That's like a baseline to play. But we need much more than that, especially for the planet to evolve. We need to be more engaged with our kids and to be able to have meaningful conversations and spend Time. And, like, I know you believe in this. It's like, bring the vibration that we have home. This isn't about a paycheck. Your paycheck does not carry the vibration that your soul does when you are present with your kids.

Oh, I love that. I love that, man. That's so super powerful. And it's a great visual, you know, that I think puts things in perspective for people how important that energetic vibration is. Yeah, you're right. The paycheck doesn't tell the full story. The vibration actually holds the information that does tell the full story. So for people who are listening, when you went home that day and had that revelation, what was the first thing that you did? Like, how did you express this physically and emotionally and vibrationally?

The first thing I did when I had this realization was look at my calendar and my computer, and I had this, like, come to Jesus moment where I'm looking at it going, I have a folder for everything here from. Even from my charity. I had like, there's a gala coming up. We had that folder. I had a folder for my business plan. I had a folder for so many things. I had a folder for my health, which is important to be a great dad. But it was all focused on me. The hundred percent was focused on me. I said, I haven't sat down to think about my family values. Right. I invested $30,000 in a speaker training. I hadn't invested any money into becoming a better parent. Right. So I just looked. It was lopsided. And that awareness of looking at that calendar and realizing how lopsided it was, that's what. That was the first step. And then there's kind of an uncomfortable, like, I failed feeling with it when you get there, because that's just like, hey, I didn't really look at taxes for the last number of years, but I should address it now. And you're like, that's a really uncomfortable time.

But when you.

But when you finally get there, then you can start making some progress. And for me, things started to shift gradually because I would get these retreats together and I would have these calls with these guys, and I would watch what they were doing and they would call me out. They would actually. We set it up so that they could be really brutally honest with me. I remember a couple. It was like a year and a half into running front row dads, and one of our guys was like, hey, man, I know you talk about spending a lot of time with your kids, and now you're all going home on front row dads. But your calendar still doesn't totally represent that. And that was like another level of growth, which was really good. So having people that could be brutally honest or also, you know, here's another example. There's a practical example. My best hours are in the morning. I'm most productive. And so, you know, in my 20s, when I'm building businesses and going through all the personal growth conferences, they would ask the question, right? What are your best hours of the day? You should block that time, guard it with your life, and do the most creative, biggest work that you can do. Well, that's what I learned how to do. So when I had kids, I would say to my wife, I'm the breadwinner of the family. She's stay at home. These are my best hours of the day. I need to give this to the business so that I can provide for the family. But then if you have the realization that you're a family man with a business, not a businessman with a family, I had to look at those hours ago. Why is my family getting the rest of me and not the best of me? If they really are my priority? Why wouldn't I take from 6 in the morning till 10 in the morning, give it to my family first? And so I was like, that's scary, because that was my creative time. I was writing books. But I did it. I said, I'm gonna start driving my son to school every day. A thing. Which I thought I could never do and have a business and be a entrepreneur. And right. Like. Cause I was like, you know, that's my wife's job. That's what I would say in my mind, right? Like, that may sound terrible, but that was truth, right? That's my wife's job. I would say, hey, it's her job to get ready in the morning or get the kids ready to feed them, to get them ready. I need to read, I need to think, I need to do my miracle morning. I need to write. And finally I said, no, this is it. I need to be doing the miracle morning with my kids. I need to be showing them that how to cook breakfast with my wife. I need to be demonstrating what a positive relationship actually looks like in front of them. Not just telling them, you know, what love looks like, but showing them. So that is really my deal. And what is cool, and you probably can guess about this, the end of the story is business didn't suffer, really. Business has only gotten better, and I feel more fulfilled. And I'm a healthier, better version of myself at the end of the day as a result of it. Because I show up knowing my heart knows that I did the right thing first, and that carries an energy with it, and that impacts my day.

Dude, you just, like, called me out without knowing it on so many things. Oh, man. You know, because it is. It's tough, man. It's not easy. So I totally admire this transformation, and it's something that, if I'm totally honest, I could be better about. I do set aside my mornings to spend more time with my son. And I've given my wife permission to call me out if I'm on my phone or on my computer in the morning. But all I've done is taken those things away. I haven't added. So I want to start adding and helping her in the morning and role modeling that. That, hey, you've got to work together as a team to get this done. But also putting that loving intention into his food, because if she's prepping his lunch, then my hands and my heart are not really attending to his food. And I would love to be able to put that intention into it. So I appreciate you saying all that. And I was visualizing my morning and just calling myself out based on where I could optimize that. I love that.

Well, you know, and one more thought about this is like, we all want to make a difference in the world, right? I think we share, like, I want to make a difference in the world so bad. And we love to talk about people like Bill Gates and a Nelson Mandela and Mother Teresa and these big people who made huge splashes in the world, because those are great stories, right? A Rosa Parks, the one life that changed so much. And we desperately want to have that type of significance in the world. And so while that is wonderful and not to take anything away from those stories, I think we also sometimes fail to put on a pedestal the mom and dad of Bill Gates, the mom and dad of a Rosa Parks, the mom and dad of people who brought that soul into the world that nurtured that little baby when they couldn't take care of themselves, right? And their mentors along the way and those people that played a role. Like, that's systematically, I think, what makes all this work. So I think we need to actually deepen our understanding of where we make our difference in the world, because it's not necessarily the size of our company, right? It's not necessarily how many followers we have or people we reach directly, but it's that person who answers the suicide hotline, saves somebody's life, and then that person maybe goes on to cure cancer. So who's more valuable in the equation? The one who saved the genius's life or the genius who actually made it happen? They're both important. And so I think that I just need to remind myself and get my ego in check that when I'm at home, it's like I am changing the world through my children in ways that I don't even know. And it's like, health, too. We've talked about this. It's like sleep where you go. I used to think, like, sleep was the thing that took me away from living my life. And now I realize that there's actually a lot happening when I'm sleeping. I'm being super productive, right? Like, my body is at work building and creating a better machine for the next day. It's just reframing where our impact is. And entrepreneurs have that bug. We just have to. When we have kids, we need to remember that it has to evolve.

You know, it brings up a powerful quote that I just read yesterday. I mean, I've read it a while ago, but it came into my. Came into my day yesterday, and it was that a man who plants a tree, whose shade he'll never sit under, understands the true meaning of life. And that's exactly what we're doing with our children. You know, we're planting, we're pouring energy into them, into a tree that will continue to grow even after we're gone. And we never know the impact that it's going to have. I mean, certainly it's going to be positive, but how big, we never really know. It's pretty cool when you really put it that way.

Dude, I got to say one more thing. And I realize I'm not letting you ask any questions on your own show, but it's like this idea that you brought to our group about even, like, not just your health, but the health of many generations. See, the version of me a year ago was only concerned about my health and the health of my kids. I wasn't thinking about that. What I feed my kids and the environment that I create for them actually helps a profile that helps their genes that gets passed down when they procreate. So I'm affecting, like, generations upon generations. I heard the figure 18 recently, right? Like, what you eat and what you do and how you breathe and all those things can affect 18 generations. So now I'm like, my. The purpose of my life just got amplified tremendously because I'm not just thinking about, like, hey, how do I. How do I Make sure that the environment's okay for me and my kids. I'm not just trying to purify the air or the water in my home. I'm trying to think about what does the air and water and genetic profile look like of the 18 generations down the road for the Vrooman family. That to me is like what we call front row dads. If we're talking about the difference between somebody that's like, I provide and I love and that's it, or I'm a front row dad and I'm thinking about 18 generations ahead, I love that.

That makes it even more powerful, you know, like, how much more important can this get? I love it. So really, from what I'm hearing, is that this is really a mindset shift, right? It's a paradigm shift. And then following that, it's a priority shift. And then it's a permission that you give people around you to call you out right when you're. When you're slipping, and then also surrounding yourself with other people who are also on the same path of elevating themselves, which, you know, just by this conversation, I can already see myself being a better parent. I can see myself being a better husband. And I love that because it's just giving ourselves permission to call ourselves out and giving other people permission to call us out so that we can, you know, kind of chip away, right? It's everything we need is already here. We just got to chip away at the things that are no longer serving us and sculpt this amazing life that we all deserve. Really. That's it, Man. I'd love to ask you what is the biggest impact that you've had specifically on your wife and your children? Like, what is it? Let me rephrase that. So what is it that your wife says or your children say to you that allow you to know, okay, I'm on the right path? Or what is it that they do or say that kind of directs you or tells you that, hey, I'm on the wrong path? I need to kind of.

Well, you know, my wife. And so I call. I call her. One of her personalities is the Russian assassin. And so she was born and raised in Siberia. The Russian assassin will tell you like it is. She does not bite her tongue. She is straight to the point. So I think that one of the things that she does really well for me is she lets me know when things are great and when they're not great. And she'll just say it directly, which is wonderful. I will tell you that from my Perspective. One of the best things I'd ever done for my relationship with my wife and my kids was give up drinking. Just completely no alcohol. That was the best decision of my life. I mean, and I wasn't crashing cars and getting DUIs and blacking out or doing that crazy stuff. I definitely drank too much. There's no question that's debatable about how much that is. But here's the part that isn't. It was messing up my life. That's the part. I don't need anybody to tell me that it was messing up my life. And what I mean by that is other people would have still said, you had a great life before. I go, right. It just wasn't to the potential that it could be. So I think that's key. I think with my kids, it's this. If you get too wrapped, how do we know that? Right. What's the feedback loop there? For me, it's that when you don't know what to do as a dad, when you're really struggling about what to do, like, is that age appropriate? Do I do that? And you're really struggling and you can't find the answer, that is most likely because you are disengaged from your kid. If you're like, I don't know if that's appropriate. I don't know if I should do that. Should I have that conversation? Look, there's some normal contemplation around that. But if you get totally stuck and don't know what to do after you've thought about this and really pondered it, it's because you don't know your kid that the biggest thing is you've got to know your kid. You've got to know them so well that you know what to do. It's like literally knowing your spouse to where you're like, I know their love language. I know what gift they want. I know how to light their heart up. When people are like, I don't know what kind of gift to give, I go, that means that we need to pay a little more attention. That means we need to ask some more questions, learn a little more. It's like a doctor, if you. If you don't know what to do, hey, we got to run a couple more tests. We got to pay a little more attention. We got to. We got to dig in here to figure out, because then when we know it, we can try that. We can try things and we can see what works. Man, that's so critical. You've got to pay attention. You got to be involved, you got to try things. You got to pay. You know, look at what you get and then pivot and change. And I think that's the. So the feedback I get is like, I know if I'm engaged with my kids, they know if I'm engaged. I can't hide it because it's like somebody said one time they said about marriage, they go, how do you know it's the right one? And I go, when? You don't have to ask that question, it's when people can't talk you out of it. It's like you just know, right? And I said that knowing is so powerful. It will hit you. You will know if you're doing it. You don't need somebody to tell you if you're spending enough time with your kids. If you have to ask that question, the answer is, you're probably not.

I love it. I love it, man. Thank you. Thank you. This has been super amazing, super awesome. I'm not excited to get off this conversation, but I'm excited. Part of me is because I want to start expressing myself a little bit differently. So I appreciate you and very humbled by what you shared today, and I hope this inspires everyone who's listening to. Hey, it's all about becoming better, right? Every day just become a little bit better, become more aware and have that consciousness around this topic, and it's super, super important. And we didn't even. We'll have to do a part two because there's so many other questions I'd like to ask you, but, you know, what we talked about is being a better parent today, and I can promise you that that shows up as being a better version in your business as well. So, John, real quick, where can people learn more about the work that you're doing? How can they contribute to your cause? I'd love to give people an opportunity to learn more about you.

Yeah, man. Frontrowdads.com is the place. The podcast is out, and we've got lots of really great interviews there, including your time at the Front Row Dads retreat. So guys should check that out. That show was a massive hit, which was really powerful. Go listen to Satchin on the Front Row Dads podcast. That's what I would say.

Thanks, brother. Well, I appreciate you. I love you. Thank you so much. Have an amazing rest of your day.

Right back at you.

Bye for now.