EP134: How Dr. Betty Murray Runs a Seven-Figure Nutrition-Based Practice

Hey Sachin and welcome to the Perfect Practice Podcast. It's my mission to use this podcast as a platform to help holistic, heart centered practitioners transform the world. I think we can all agree that the world needs more of what we have to offer now than ever before. And I want to take all the information and all the knowledge and experience that I've gained over the years and leverage the community and the contacts and the mentors that I've had over the years and, and share some of the most valuable nuggets that I've picked up over those years. I also want to bring special guests on so that they can share their valuable wisdom and knowledge with you as well. Each episode is going to be packed with valuable nuggets of information to help you grow both personally and professionally, all while moving you towards more impact and more freedom. I'm excited that you're here. I'm excited that you want to grow and learn to. So let's jump right in. Hello friends and welcome to Perfect Practice. Today I have a dear friend and somebody who I know is going to knock your socks off. Betty Murray. She is just a fireball. Like when we get into this interview, you're going to absolutely love her. I know it. It was love at first sight for me. She's such an energetic person, so positive, so encouraging and she's actually here to share her secret sauce. What makes her and her businesses and her lifestyle and her contribution such a huge success for her family and her community and her clients that she works with. She is the CEO and founder of Living well Dallas and this is a functional medicine center. And she is a nutritionist and a researcher that has helped hundreds and hundreds of people feel their absolute best and get them, you know, functioning beyond their wildest dreams. And because of that, she's had great success and this success has led to financial prosperity, to health prosperity, to contributional prosperity. And I'm going to be, you know, extracting some of this information out of her so that it helps you and serves you in serving your community and helps you have a breakthrough. That's my approach objective today. And welcome, welcome, welcome to you, Betty. Thanks for being here today.

Gosh, thank you for having me, Satchin. I'm excited to share wisdom and also maybe keep people from falling in some of the pitfalls I may have fell in early on in my career. So to do both things, I hope.

Yeah, well, let's get right into it. Since you bring up the pitfalls, what would you say are maybe the top three things that you look at look back at and say, maybe in the time you thought they were pitfalls, but perhaps now you're realizing that these were actually like blessings in disguise.

Oh, gosh, I have many. So because I started my practice 20 years ago, so I'm an OG in this world. And I started with a whole lot of bravado and a whole lot of probably arrogance, Honestly, I was like, well, of course this is the way it should go and why wouldn't we be successful? And so I think some of the things that I was very early on attached to that probably cost me money was the idea that the tribe was already out there. Right. That you can imagine. 2004, there wasn't much of a functional medicine tribe or people that really. And I live in Dallas too, so we're not talking about the most out there kind of into alternative environment. I'm in a very conservative environment. And so financially, I had a little bit of Runway and. And a lot of bravado, right? So in the beginning, I bootstrapped like nobody's business. I opened an 1100 square foot office while I was still standing in corporate America and working part time. And I was taking, you know, squirreling away $500 this week, $100 this week, and just slowly funding my business in that I thought it was a really big setback because I never had that funding to grow. But it also didn't give me a gigantic Runway in which to screw stuff up. Because if you have a bunch of money, you can make a lot of mistakes before it hurts you. Right? And so that was, I would say, the first one is in the need of bootstrapping. Often we feel like we're being screwed over, but in that it requires us to become much more resourceful with our resources and it helps us be a little more targeted, especially if we stop living in the victimhood of it and looking at it and going, this is the reality. How can I be more resourceful? And don't get me wrong, I made a bunch of mistakes. I could have burned money on different marketing things. I tried. But in the grand scheme of things, at least my Runway was tight. So I would say that was the first, like, the pitfalls, it's not having enough money to do it. And I'm going to air quote this, right. But also not having enough money. So I have to be really mindful of what I'm doing. I think one of the other pitfalls is early on, I had a perception of how the public perceived different. Different modalities. So in my clinic today, we have internal medicine, we have psychiatry, we do hormone replacement. I have clinical nutritionists, I have life coaches and counselors. We have diagnostics, we have iv. We have this crazy octopus of skill, of skill sets and services, which is awesome. Early on, I had the perception that everybody in the environment, our potential customers, understood the value of health coaching and life coaching and that they would get that as part of their business paradigm. And so we were fee for service. And I couldn't ever figure out why they wouldn't buy health coaching. It's because the population don't. There are two things that I think our customers think our clients or patient, however you want to refer to them, is, number one, they're not quite clear what a health coach is. So it's our job, if we're a health coach or we have health coaches that work with us to really help people understand they're kind of the hidden secret sauce to getting stuff done and being effective. The other thing is the humankind have this infinite belief of their skillset, of being able to apply what they need to get done and to do it without failure, which is absolutely 100% not true of anybody, including us. I have coaches, you have coaches. We have a lot of the same coaches. We need coaches. And so what that did to my business is early on, I had this attachment to it.

And.

And instead of looking at the business model and rearranging the business model to go, okay, I'm going to integrate that in so they don't see it not as a choice of theirs. I had to learn how to what I call kill my children. I had to let go of what my belief structure was, that if I just educated somebody enough, they would find value in it and instead create the value proposition and give it to them in that way, then they find value in it. So how that may apply to somebody that's listening is you may be trying a particular business strategy, and in your heart of hearts, you believe it's the way it's supposed to go. But if the market is telling you constantly, they don't get it and they aren't buying it, your strategy is wrong. So you may have to kill your child and rearrange it in a different way. And I held onto it for a really long time, and it just made me crazy. And I was finally like, I am wrong. I'm just wrong.

You know, A lesson. Thank you for sharing that. First off, that was awesome. One of the things that I heard at a Tony Robbins conference is you have to love your clients more than you Love your program. And so a lot of times we love our program like we love our children. And it's hard for us to kind of face the music that, hey, maybe this isn't what people want, and maybe if I focused on what my clients actually want and create the outcomes that they desire, then, you know, that'll have a lot more success. Right. And a lot more referrals, a lot more. A lot more growth. And a big thing that, you know. And you're saying this, and I just want to articulate it, is we have to get people to understand and perhaps change the paradigm that they're in and get them into a new paradigm so they ask the right questions. And when they ask the right questions, then you become the most obvious answer because it's like, oh, my God, this is exactly what I've been looking for. Why didn't you tell me this? Right? Or why didn't I. Why hasn't anyone told me this up to this point? And when people's paradigms change, then, you know, their options become much more clear. And I think a big part of messaging and marketing and having a successful practice as you do is getting really clear on who you're for and who you're not for and how you do things different than what else is being done out there.

Yes, Yes. I mean, and I would kind of add that onto, like, not being attached to your program and always trying to add value first. Right. With value that you give to your customers, clients, and patients, you get rewarded. If money is what's driving your choices, you will always be pining for money. When you know you're driving towards a value. People will value that. When you're giving them what they need and. And also helping them understand what they need, I think that's really important. And I think the other side is I have a lot of people that'll come up to me and they're like, oh, my gosh, Betty, I've always wanted to have what you have.

Right?

So I'm going to be real honest. I love what we have here. I have 6,500 square feet. I have 18 people that are all practitioners. It's amazing, but it is the hardest corralling of cats you will ever find. Here's the reality. After 20 years, I had rheumatology in our office, and I let go of it a year and a half ago because I looked at it and I said, the value we provide, do I need that? It was causing more trouble than it was worth. I was like, that is not a business model piece that I want to continue anymore. So I pulled it out. So the other thing is, when you're starting out, the narrower you get with what you're doing and who you're serving and what problem you're solving for, the easier it is for you to stand out in that market. And I know you talk about this a million times. So you. Here's my clinic. Imagine, right? So who do I serve? The psych patient. The frustrated female or male that's in their 40s and don't feel good. The one that wants to optimize and do longevity. The gut health person. We have a little bit of all of that. That's cool and fun. But when you're looking at being very targeted about what you're doing from a business standpoint, it also makes it really hard to market for.

Right.

Cause who do you market for? What's your avatar? I got a little bit of all of them. Right. And I didn't know it then. Cause it was always like, oh, this is gonna be a mothership, and I'll have satel and want to do this. And I am working on that in a whole different world. Because it's not necessary to do that in brick and mortar anymore. But I also look at that and say, you know, if I'm sitting on the fence right now, I'm new to my career or new to this next paradigm, or I'm starting out, or I'm somewhere where I'm starting to make big decisions, don't go bigger, faster, better, and think it's going to be more money, more every. More every. Because it may be complicating things that are not valuable. I have to spend more money on marketing than other people's because I have multiple avatars. I. I have to spend twice as much effort and time on managing my staff because it's big and multidisciplinary and all those other things. We have it down to a science. But to be honest, if I were to create it today, knowing what I know now, and I did it before, there was newsletters and Facebook and all that other stuff, I would be really narrow in what I did because it would help me optimize faster, just in reality. So that's the other thing. So people are listening. They're like, oh, my God, I want that. Think twice. Because you're going to spend as much time operating or you're going to have to have an operator that can operate it for you. Because it's a lot of corralling people and cats.

Yeah, you Bring up a good point. And it takes me back to a point in my practice where we had multiple practitioners as well. And one of our practitioners was really interested in neurology, another one really interested in gut health, and then I was really interested in longevity and metabolic wellness. And then we had, you know, a hypnotherapist on our team. Amazing people. But I would wake up with a pit in my stomach every day because I'm like, I've got to give these people, like, assignments and work to do and corral them in and, and make sure that, you know, every appointment that they have is going well, in addition to the appointments that I'm having with, with my clients and, and people that I'm coaching. So I, I totally understand where you're coming from and where simplicity would be, where you would start all over again. And I think, like, it's simplicity scales, as they say, which means the more narrow and focused we can be, the. The. It's easier for people to find us because that's exactly who they're looking for. And it's easy for us to put ourselves out there. Easier for us to put ourselves out there because we ran into a similar challenge where, you know, if you're trying to build one narrow niche, that's great. You know, you've got to be hammering your list with that message. You know, hammering in a positive way and adding value in a positive way. But then when you have three or four different topics that you're discussing, you'd have to send a lot of emails to do that for each of those different avatars. So I, I can totally relate and totally agree with that sentiment is start simple. And I was speaking to a client earlier today, and, you know, he works a lot with metabolic clients and he's 70 plus and he lost, you know, 38 pounds in 10 weeks. And I'm like, you need to be hammering home like that person. Right? The person that's just like you not getting into other conditions that you can help. Just because you can help these people doesn't mean you should be marketing and messenger messaging to those people. And he, it became very clear to him that he was spreading his message and himself too thin. And, you know, so I think that's, that's great advice that you just offered. There is keep it simple.

Yeah. I mean, if somebody wants to create that environment, you know, it's, you know, if you really have this burning desire to have a multidisciplinary team, just recognize you better be a really good business person. Right. Or you Better hire really good business people. Which also means that Runway of cash flow needs to be better. This is not a 10 to $14 an hour job. You can't hire somebody like that and expect them to manage that. I have an incredible team. You know, leadership skills and team building and culture building, those things are radically important to the quality of your business and the quality of your customer experience. And it will. If you don't have those skills, you better get them or you start honing those because that will make the difference on the ease in which you run your business, you know. Oh, go ahead.

No, absolutely. I totally agree. Finish your thought, though. You were saying something.

Yeah, because I have, I have a very complicated clinic, obviously, just looking at it from the surface, and I have three other businesses that are very busy and I still have ton of free time. I get to do what I want to do. Like I have that. But it requires the who, not how. It requires finding the right people to play the roles that you need and empowering them to do that. And unfortunately, most of us in health care never had business training. I happen to be lucky. I had a business degree before I came into health care, so I have a little bit of a leg up. But until you do it, it's, it's still, you know, concept until you get it into action.

Yeah, that's so true. Like, you know, it's one thing to be a great clinician, and it's another thing to be, you know, a great entrepreneur and operator. And a lot of times when people are just starting out, you're kind of wearing all the hats. And so it kind of, it serves, it serves us to, to kind of keep things lean and simple and very dialed in and focused. Because the other thing with a lot of health care practitioners, especially functional medicine practitioners, is that they can help a wide range of individuals. Right. And we're kind of very altruistic that we don't want to leave anyone behind. But at the same time, if we play small because we're spread too thin, then we're leaving a lot more people behind and eventually it kind of burns us out in the process as well.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I hear a lot from the practitioners are like, oh, if I just focus on this particular problem, you know, Avatar, I won't, I'll get bored. And I'm like, you'll still. They're going to come in. That's just happens to be their most primary problem. That's never the only thing. It's not like you're, you're going to atrophy your brain. You're going to still have a lot to keep yourself busy, but you're going to get really good at that thing too. You become, it's the 10, 20, 30,000 hour expert. Comes from the repetitive activity of it. Right. And that comes from experience. Not from the book, not from the summit, whatever it is or education that you had. That comes from reps flat out.

Gotta, gotta build those muscles as they say. Right. Can't have someone do the push ups for you.

Exactly, exactly.

So Betty, I'm curious because I could see all those books on your shelf and I know you're a researcher as well. I'm curious as to what are some of your favorite books and maybe books. Let's maybe talk about what's your favorite clinical book that would be a good read for clinicians to develop their skill set. What's a good business building book and what's a good personal development book?

Okay, so I would say, I don't know. I mean it depends on what we're looking at. I really. So lately I've, I've dug back into the. What is it? The mosaic. It's right here. The. Yes, the mosaic of autoimmunity. So it's a, it's a basically the autoimmune textbook and it's by Dr. I'm going to script his name, Schoenfeld, out of, out of Israel. So his group is doing a bunch of cutting edge research on helmet therapy for autoimmune. The reason why I like it is it's probably the best textbook because it truly is a textbook to explain the underpinnings of autoimmunity. So I love that one because I think all of us to some degree are going to be. Regardless of who your avatar is, you're going to be in the immune system. Right. Because it plays such a significant role. So that right now is one of my favorites. So business building book. I would say right now 10x is better than 2x. I've listened to it on audible. I don't know how many times. I have it earmarked, I have it highlighted. I think the more people can recognize that it is easier and more effective to leapfrog from where you are to where you want to go rather than doing small incremental changes. And it's an exaggerated sort of experience because it's not something we naturally do as humans. That's not how we're kind of taught to think. But I think recapturing that and constant, really recalibrating your efforts to that is really impactful. So I'm constantly rereading that book. And then personal development. I would say two right now. One I will say is financial just because I think it's valuable. I, like, disrupt her. Right? That one is one I'm reading right now about really just sort of stepping into your power. And that is a huge part of my paradigm right now is really pushing women to step into that power in the second season of Life and how that transpires. The other one I'm going to say is one that's going to sound very weird, but it's a book by Bill Perkins, I think is his name Bill Perkins or Parcel, and it's Die with Zero. Have you read that?

You know, it's so interesting you say that, because before you even said that, I thought the first book you were going to mention, I was just reading your mind in a way, I guess. I guess we're connected on a different wavelength. I'm like, I bet you she's going to say Die with Zero. And you said it.

Yes, yes.

We were just talking about that book with a group of my friends this past weekend because one of my friends, he's using accumulate quite a bit of wealth. And I'm like, dude, what are you gonna. What are you gonna do with all this money? Are you not. Like, you're. What do you. Who. And what are you accumulating it for? And what is the purpose of it if you're not spending it or doing some goodness with it? And one of the things we talked about, and you were so kind, I don't wanna embarrass you, but you were so kind to donate to our. Our fund and our school that we're building in Uganda. So thank you for that. And we started talking about, like, you know, I'm like, what are you going to do with all this money? I'm. So let's say you had $10 million in your bank account in cash right now. What would you do with it? And he said, I would start, you know, building schools and building hospitals and donating and paying it forward. I'm like, well, what's stopping you from doing that now? And he had to pause and think, right? Because, like, you don't know when your last day is. You don't know when your last breath is. It could be tomorrow, it could be 10 years from now, it could be 100 years from now. So why not live in the moment and pay it forward where you can right now? And that was like a big revelation for him. And I don't think he's going to blow his life savings, but I think it's important for all of us to recognize that is that what are we doing this for? Because after a certain point, the joy doesn't come from making more money. It comes from seeing more smiles and seeing more transformations and doing good in the world and paying it forward in ways that, you know, we may not be able to get paid back directly by those individuals, but we know we're doing good because we have abundance. So I love, I love that you brought that book up and that it's on your. It's on your short list of books to read.

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, we talk about the medical complex and kind of how it's sort of hijacked medicine. I think in the financial world, we have that same consideration. There are a lot of people that are struggling financially, but let's face it, in the west, we have a pretty decent opportunity to amass some sort of wealth. But it's always been, my mom was one of those people, like, the value was in saving it. But then it was like, well, then who's supposed to spend it? My mom was like, well, you didn't have grandchildren, so who's you? I don't even know why I would give it to you. I'm like, if I'm not supposed to spend it, are my grandchildren supposed to spend it? You know what I mean? Like, it just was like the amassing, it was the value. Right. Because she came from the depression. But it's an energy. It needs to transform and be used and in movement. And if we want to do really great things with our life's work, wouldn't it feel better to do it while you're still here? Posthumously? You're not going to experience that, regardless of what your end of life thoughts are. Right. But I think this book helps debunk that fear that I'm going to die with, that I'm going to end up at the end of my life with nothing. If I've been conscientious about trying to prepare for retirement, most of us have. Have estimated what we need at that end of time at a level that's unnecessary. And I think it really helped my husband and I sort of reframe that and go, okay, we're going to change how we're doing things.

Yeah. You know, I think part of it comes, like, from. From the culture, like from the generational trauma that's passed down from people who were in war times and depression era. And unless we Break that cycle, it just gets passed down, you know, to our children. My parents are the same way, you know, that I don't know what they're saving up all this money for. My brother and I are, you know, financially stable and, you know, whatever they. They leave us with, I don't think will make a huge impact financially for us. So it's like, why don't you guys go and enjoy it and we can see the joy, right? I'd rather. I'd rather know that money was spent on your joy and happiness than just ending up in my bank account when you. When you move on and transition. So they're in India right now, hopefully living it up and enjoying every moment that they can. But it is hard to take that out of people because it could be ingrained at such a young age. Right. It's like an inner child money mindset that sometimes they're encapsulated in and it's hard to break free from that. The question I want to ask is where having that grown up in perhaps that type of money mindset and financial, you know, paradigm, was there an event or something that helped you break three? Was it. Was it free from that? Was it this book? Was it something that. That happened?

I'm curious about that, you know, so I don't know. You know, I think some people become like their parents, and then some people, like, fight against their parents. I was very much like, you know, I didn't have children, but I kind of look at it and I go, there might have been a couple of reasons for not having children, because I was the kid that always asked why, and I was very different. And to be honest, I always had this mindset at a very young age. I worked very young because I remember the first time I got a job at the mall, my mom told me, no, we're not going to give you money to go to the mall with your girlfriends. All I wanted was like, a couple bucks, and she wouldn't. I was like, fine, I'll go get a job. So I came back with a job and I'm like, I'm working, period. I don't care. I was underage. Didn't matter. I falsified my birth certificate so I could work because I was so determined I was going to work.

Right?

No federal felony there or whatever. But. But anyway, so I have almost the opposite side, right? So I look at it and I go, I don't care. I'm going to make this happen. I will find the money. I will make it happen. I'll just make more, you know, and so my husband's a little more in between those two. So he manages our financials with my input. But I'm like, don't let me have a hold of that, because I am. I am one of those people that I'm like, I think of the world as abundant. I think if I live in that abundance and I'm making the, you know, value and all that other stuff and doing. Doing the right things, I will be rewarded for it. And so far, has it been easy every time? Heck, no. But I have been rewarded for it, you know, so I'm. I'm like the opposite. I'm like, the flagrant disregard. I'll spend it. I'm like, oh, I need to go start a business. I'll just spend the money.

Yeah. You remind me of me in many ways, and that's probably why we connect so well. So one of the things that I started when I was young is a barber shop. And the irony is, obviously there's not much left up top to cut, but I try to keep my beard as clean as I can. The. So my parents, my dad specifically, would, you know, he would come home late at. Late at the. At the end of the day, and the last thing he wants to do is take. Take us to go get a haircut, right? And. And so he, you know, you drag out our haircuts for weeks and weeks at a time, and then you get to a certain age where you want to. Where you want to look good, right? You want to feel good. And. And so then I started paying attention to how to cut hair. So I go to the barber shop and watch them cut hair. And. And then I started cutting my brother's hair and then my own hair, and then eventually my dad's hair. And then I had a little barbershop in my garage. So I'm totally with you. And part of it started from not getting what we wanted, right? If your mom gave you that money, you'd be a totally different person today. If my dad took me every week or every two weeks to get a haircut, I'd be a totally different person today. So sometimes these things that in the moment don't feel very good, or we feel like we were slighted or, you know, why do they get that and I don't? They actually shape us and mold us into who we are. So it's like a such a huge blessing in disguise that it just lit a fire under you to say, I'm going to determine my destiny and not depend on outside forces, you know, to determine my financial future. And, you know, kind of the story that comes up for me, and you've probably heard this, there was two. Two brothers who had an alcoholic father, and one brother turned out to be a raging alcoholic, and the other one didn't drink a sip. And so they interviewed them and said, well, the alcoholic said. They asked him, why. Why did you become an alcoholic? And they said, well, my dad was an alcoholic, so what else did you expect? And they asked the sober one, why. Why. How come you. You don't drink? And he said, well, my dad was an alcoholic, and I didn't want to be an alcoholic because I saw the ravages of being that way. So a lot of times our parents can model what's good for us, but sometimes they could model the opposite. So it's good to have a North Star so that we know what we want, but it's also good to have that South Star, so to speak, so we know what we're moving away from and what we don't want for ourselves. And I'm certain that you have a wonderful relationship with your parents, as do I. And it's those little things that shape us. And we kind of look back and thank them for. Thank you for not giving me that money because. Or thank you for not taking me for that haircut because it's shaped me into who I am today. And, you know, I'm. I know you mentioned in Our Children, but I'm. I'm trying to try to pass that. That on, that entrepreneurship onto my son because, you know, my parents said no, because in some cases, they couldn't actually afford it, or it wasn't in their budget. It wasn't that they're trying to be mean. And now that we technically can buy him whatever he wants, I'm trying to, like, have constraint so that I don't spoil him. And. And so it's interesting how our early, early childhood shapes our adult experiences, especially in business.

Yeah, yeah. No, my parents. A lot of times it was. Money was tight, and it was difficult. You know, I was reading the Elon Musk book. You know, love him or hate him, whatever. Buddy's on that. But Walter Isaacson, of course, the guy that wrote that book, and he did Steve Jobs and, you know, so he sat with all these people that have radically changed the world. And the truth is, is none of those people had a real easy life. And it's. And it really is through our adversity, we. Those things that are difficult for us make us More tenacious or whatever we want to call those things, they're helpful, you know, And I think that same application, even if you're listening to this and you're like, well, my life was pretty damn easy, what does that mean? This next step of opening a practice maybe, or walking away from the traditional medical environment, that is also adversity. Right. So, you know, so we either go into it with a sense of I'm going to come out on the other side and maybe I'm going to burn the bridge that allows me to step back. You know, that's the other thing is don't keep a plan B that's really easy to go back to. Right.

Because.

Because human nature would be to drop back to the B when it gets hard. I mean, I made sure I had nowhere to go. I was in it. I went back to school for this. Then I made sure I couldn't go back. And so it was like, I must move forward. And so you just keep marching forward and keep reiterating and changing. So I would say that's the other part. So that adversity often helps.

Yeah, you know, I found that as well. And you know, I haven't had like extreme hardships in my life. I mean, not getting a haircut, certainly I don't want to minimize the trauma that some people have experienced. But I do find that the people who are the game changers, the world changers, the, you know, the mavericks who really changed the trajectory of humanity, they all had this huge chip on their shoulder, like Steve, Steve Jobs had, you know, a lot of self worth issues because he was adopted. And you know, I know Elon Musk had a very difficult, challenging, you know, time with his father growing up. And it's almost like sometimes, like I'll say this for what it's worth, and I don't want to put it into the, into the ether, but sometimes you almost wish you had this adversity because you see what they've done and you don't have to have that level of trauma or that level of challenge to use something that fires you up, that lights you up. Because everyone's 10 out of 10 is different. Right. My 10 out of 10 dramatic experience is my 10 out of 10. And it might be somebody else's 2 out of 10, but that doesn't really matter. So I think a good piece of advice is, you know, for us to dig through our childhood and figure out what are some of the things that maybe were difficult or challenging at the time that are serving us now and how do we lean into those things? Because they can help us, propel us into the future.

Yeah. And you know, I always, even as a kid, I joked, so I'm adopted. I'm very personality different, particularly than my mother. But one of the biggest things that would guarantee to make me act was to tell me I couldn't do it. Now you can't do that or you're not allowed to do that, you shouldn't do that. I was like, oh, freaking game on. I will prove you wrong every time and I will double down, like, I will make sure I work harder, faster, whatever to do it. And that has served me. But a lot of it was, you know, my parents were very, I would say very German in my upbringing. It was like, you know, don't get a big head, don't have high expectations. The world is going to victimize you and you need to just girder yourself to that. And I was like, oh, not me. I was like, not my world.

So you're talking to the wrong person and the right person at the same time.

Exactly, exactly. So, you know, it all works out. But yeah, I think recognizing those challenges are actually helpful is always good.

Yeah, I love that. You know, one of the things that became very clear to me is that success usually is a result and kind of staying in the same vein as Steve Jobs and Apple is when we do things different and differentiate ourselves from the competition. And Sally Hogshead, you may know her, so that different is, is better than better. So I'm curious as to how you differentiate your practice and your services versus perhaps some of the other practices in your town.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so. So I would say first and foremost is. And I did this kind of kicking and screaming, you know, I built this very large center, very busy, very, you know, very standing out in the public eye. Right. And I kept wanting to say, but I have this company and I didn't want to be the brand. And I think, Sachin, when you and I first met, I was very much like, I don't want to be the brand. You know, I was. But the reality is your brand, your brand is you. Right. In today's world, you can extract yourself from the brand, but you have to be part of the brand. So I'd say stepping into that role and owning that. And I did it locally, like, I had to get out and speak. Everybody goes, well, how did you get your business to millions of dollars? Well, I started it when we didn't have social media and all this other stuff. I used to call it Work in the corners. And the reality was is I spoke anywhere and everywhere. One year I spoke 220 times, every Rotary, Kiwanis Club, PTA. I showed up everywhere because I was like, I need everybody to know who we are. I got good at public speaking. But the other side of it is I was out there sort of being this brand, right? So I think having that brand avatar that people sort of gravitate to, and I'm out in public, out at charity events and those kind of things, owning that I am the owner and CEO and founder, I think is really important. The other thing I would say is people, most of the time, customers, patients. Like, if you look at malpractice claims or just why they leave a practice, it is rarely because of what happened. It's not because of a malfunction in a lab review or something like that. It's how it was handled. So the truth is, and I would say this to any of the practices, because I had a consulting and coaching firm for a decade doing this and I stepped back from it. When Covid hit, that was one of the things that I was like, I'm gonna kill my child. This is not the job I want to carry anymore. But the execution of your business, which means the experience that patient has from the moment they like hit a social media, the website, the phone call, the contact us, every part of that experience needs to be thought out and managed. And in a way that makes it extraordinary experience. If you screw up, you own it, you fix it, you apologize for it. And my team is so damn awesome at execution that we out execute everybody. I can remove a practitioner from our practice, which is super rare. Most of my people have been with me eight years or more. But literally the patients will say, well, who you bringing in? Because their experience is the experience of this. So the other thing when you want to stand out is you need to look at the non geeky clinical stuff and double down on that experience, all the way down to the emails, the messages, how the phone get answered. Those things will make up for a world of pain and will also make you look better because most people shirk that. And that's the stuff that people get mad about.

Yeah, that's so huge. I love what you said about extreme ownership. You know, I think that's one of the things that differentiates people who are successful in business is they own it, right? They own every, every bit of it. And when you can surround yourself with a team that does that as well, I think it's, it's really Setting you up for exponential growth and service to the people that you love and care about the most, which are your clients? Yeah, maybe a good question here would be, you know, having. Having such a loyal and. And supportive staff. That's kind of all on the same page. What's your. What does your hiring process look like? So if you were to expand your team, I'd love for you to maybe shed some light on that.

Yeah. So I'm very lucky. I have some people that have been with me 8 years, 14 years, 12 years, 9 years, 17, 19. So I don't have to do a lot of hiring, but I do, you know. So our. Our first thing is, obviously you're going to go LinkedIn or whatever. Indeed. And we put together kind of a matrix of requirements that we want. And indeed, in particular, you're able to sort of narrow down those requirements so they can kind of help weed out those things. My team actually does the initial interviews. So I have a woman that works for me that's been with me forever, that is very strategy driven, culture driven. She helps run the culture in the company. She does the first interviews. And what she's really looking for is. Is on paper, you can easily figure out, do they fit the role that I want, do they fit the skill set that I need? Her job is to figure out very quickly, are they a culture fit. Right. So that's very much the first thing, because there's no reason for them to go any further if they aren't an absolute culture fit. And here's one of my rules about that. I don't want somebody to always say yes to me. I worked for a company that had yes people and they're going under. Right. This is decades ago. You need people that challenge your thoughts because that helps you make sure that you're not making kind of errors in thinking. But they have to be on board for your strategy. Right. So when you're looking at that culture fit, that's what you're looking for. And so I tell people, I'm like, I have a Volkswagen test. I had a Volkswagen Bug. That was my first car, learned how to work on it. And I imagine that person and my staff does the same thing. I said, we're going to be working in tight quarters with each other all the time. Can I get in that car and drive across the US with that person? Would I enjoy that experience? Not that I'm going to agree with them all the time, but would I find that to be enriching? If I can't, then I start to really radically think about whether they can fit in our culture. We're a small company. If I had 400 people, that'd be a little bit different. So I have that. Once they pass the culture fit and the skill set, they actually come into a group interview and they will interview with a good 12 to 14 of our practitioners and we see how they handle the group. Right. And how the group experiences them. And then we bring them in to interview me or me, I will interview them. And then if I like them, we have a working day, we bring them in, we pay them for that day, and we have them spend time and then we do a follow up interview with me. So it's a lengthy process. We're slow to hire, quick to fire, and I don't have to fire very often because we do such an extensive sort of interview process.

I love that. I think that's so important. How do you know? Thinking back, we may have to go back maybe even almost 20 years. Who's that first and most important hire? So imagine you're starting all over again. You're, you know, you're starting to generate some revenue and you realize, okay, I've got to bring some people on. How do you determine who that first hire is?

Yeah, I mean, for me it was really that administrative assistant, slash operational person that could start taking on the minutia of the office, you know, because the reality is when you start your company, you're going to spend more time and more money getting people through the door than you will doing what it is you wanted to do. Right. But when you get an office opened, whether it's virtual or live, you have a bunch of administrative work that then you have to do as you start seeing clients and patients. And your real role as the owner of the company is to bring people through the door. You need to generate new clients and patients and keep the ones you have happy. But if you're also the care provider, you have to do that. Those are your two primary roles. The first person you want to hire is to take care of all the stuff that doesn't earn you money or helps you bring in customers directly. And that allows you to start now exponentially growing. Because the last thing you want to do is spend billable hours. Whether you're selling programs or trading time. However you're doing it, you don't want to spend billable hours doing unbillable work. That's not a good use of your time. It's the whole. And that a lot of people will wait to hire that person. They will burn themselves out because they feel like, oh, I can't afford to do it. You can't afford not to do it.

Okay. It makes total sense. You know, I just, I recently brought on a team member, somebody who's actually been working with us in our community and our ecosystem for the last like 10 years. And so it was like a, it was a, it was a great hire because great culture fit, awesome work ethic and you know, we know this person inside and out, so to speak. So it's, it's always awesome to attract great talent to your business and know when you have that culture. I think that's, that's one of the most important things and often gets overlooked because you, you can't train culture. I think people are, I mean, I mean you, you can influence it, but it like you want to bring somebody in who's not going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole operation because it doesn't like when you're running a tight ship, it doesn't take much to. The tighter the ship, the more important it is to bring the right people in 100%. It could really mess things up. So it's great guidance and advice. Betty, I want to kind of leave my last question for you as an open ended question. What's something that I should have asked that I didn't? Or what's a piece of advice that you love to offer people who are either just starting out or perhaps looking to take that next step? Maybe it's hiring that next person or launching their webinar or whatever it might be. What would you say is your piece of advice you'd like to share with us?

I think all the things that you said there are all really important, but I think this one is also universally true. If you're a practitioner, I don't care if you're md, do, dc, nurse practitioner, whatever it is, nutritionist, health coach, you do not need any more certifications. Because often, often we get into this like, I just need to know more. I need to get one more certification. I need to go take this other training and then. Which ties you up in uncertainty, indecision and blows money, right? The truth is, is those things are all nice and maybe you don't do them right now, maybe do them later, but you don't need, need more training to do what you do. You need to do what you're trained to do. Right? Because especially functional medicine. I mean, I got certified by IFM over a decade ago and I started right when it was starting. I was going in like 0607 to the trainings. And what I thought was so weird is I was a nutrition professional, so as soon as I learned something, I started using it. But a bunch of my doctor friends were like amassing the information so they could take the board and they were never practicing it. And I would be like, you don't even know what you're doing because you've never done it. Just because you can pass the board exam doesn't mean you actually know what you're doing. And they're like, have to have the exam to do it. I'm like, no, you don't. And all it did was set them back four or five years. Right. You don't need to be certified in any new stuff. You got the skills, use them and then you can add new skills, but you don't need to hold off to get more skills to then do. That's a procrastination effort.

Yeah, I love that. That's such a, that's such a great point. And something I see people doing over and over and over again. Like they're investing in certifications, but that same money could be invested into their business or marketing or something that's gonna, that has an ROI that's more immediate. And I also feel like a lot of people keep taking more training and courses because of a few reasons that I've identified and I'd love for you to add more if you can. Is one is that it's a form of procrastination, as you said, it leads to imposter syndrome because they just never feel like they know enough and that imposter syndrome leads to a lack of certainty. So they never really like fully put themselves out there. And what I tell people to do is the way you build the muscles is by doing the reps. And as long as you're in high integrity and you're willing to take ownership and you're willing to learn and be resourceful. Most of the times we're not dealing with life or death type of situations and we can find the answer if we have the right resources, the right community, the right team. We can find the answer pretty quickly if we don't know it. So it's such sage advice to just get out there, start putting yourself out there. And I've seen it over and over again with practitioners especially, you know, not to call anyone out, but I see this a lot with medical doctors because I think the in what's ingrained in them is until you have this hanging on your wall, you don't know anything. But the reality is you already know so much. You just gotta apply it in this new way that you're learning and you just become better and better and better and build those muscles.

No, I completely agree. I mean and I've gone back and you know, I've since done a PhD. I didn't do a PhD because I needed it for my business. I didn't need it at all. I wanted to do it because I wanted to really dig into the research and get good at that so I could provide more research basis to prove this type of medicine works. So I took that on not because I needed that from a brand standpoint. I have been waitlisted 16 weeks for over a decade. I will still be waitlisted 16 weeks or more, with or without, it doesn't matter. Right. That's just the way it works. So you don't need it. So I would agree. And it does drive that sort of imposter fear and things around it. And like you said, it is the rep like you learn this stuff by doing, not by learning in a classroom and then applying it to a multi choice test. You know, it just doesn't work that way.

I love this. I really enjoyed our time together and I feel like we, we need to maybe do a part two where we can even dive a little bit deeper. Thank you for everything that you've shared today in the interest of, of, you know, everyone's curiosity. Where can we learn more about you? If somebody wants to refer a client to you, maybe you can share a little bit more about how we can do that.

Sure, sure. So my clinic website address is livingwell Dallas like the city.com and then if you want to look me up, it's bettymurray.com and then I have a podcast called Menopause Mastery that's on all of the podcast platforms and so you can find me there also.

Amazing. Well, we're going to have to come and have you speak for our other podcast called Living Proof. We can go into the Menopause mastery side of things. Amazing. You're just a wealth of knowledge. Such a great inspiration. Love your smile, love your energy. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for your wisdom and sharing the lessons. Appreciate you greatly. Have an amazing, amazing rest of your day.

Thank you. You too. Sach.

Sa.