Sachin Patel - The Future of Health (#193)

Always see the dangers first Always protect your feet Always be ready for cold Always be ready for heat Always know we're good water where source is Always master the skills necessary Always get the job done Always die in place Always disallow foolishness Always rest whenever you can. Whenever you can.

Hi friends. Welcome to another episode of the 10 Laws podcast with East Forest. I'm the forest guy. Some sometimes called other things, but we'll go with that for now. Thank you so much for joining us again. Thanks for subscribing and thank you for reviewing the podcast and doing all that jazz. I'm excited to share a conversation I have today with Sachin Patel. Sachin is one of these people who's good at a lot of things, but he seems to know a whole lot about functional medicine and living well health on like, like all aspects of what makes you healthy and happy. He's someone who I kind of crossed paths with a bit during the enthiawheel thing we did at Esalen and he was sort of virtually on screen when Rada and I were there in person and I was like, oh, this guy's really cool. And then we ended up linking through somebody else and so awesome. Now we get to share a conversation with with you. Speaking of enthiowheal, they're doing a. I believe it's a five part series online with a lot of amazing people. It's a salon where we get deep into the science and ceremony of psilocybin and other entheogens and I'll be participating in the one on January 23rd. That's the second salon, I believe it's called Sparking our Innate Genius.

And.

And there's other wonderful people involved including Paul Stamets and I mean all sorts of people. Let me see, should I pull it up here? We got Jyoti Ma and Rosalind Watts and Buki Fadipe. That one should be new to me. Louis Schwartzberg of Fantastic Fungi amongst many others. You should check it out. Entheoweal.com They've got some also some really interesting like little offerings and options for how you might want to engage with it or see it after the fact. So check that out before we get into this conversation. I'm going to share a song. At the end we're going to listen to Voyagers again. My collaboration with Anna. Anna and I have been doing some other collabs and I'm eager to share those with you at some point in the future. I also spent the last couple of days collaborating with Miriam and who's an artist out of Las Vegas. And she reached out and we had some musical interests and so she came in and we spent two and a half days solid in the studio. We got about four, four pretty cool jams in the can that I have plenty to work with there and fleshed those out. And so I'm in that mode where I was just like deep in music production, which it felt good. It felt good. It's been a while since I busted out the MIDI keyboard, but we got plenty of other, like instruments in there as of course, as well as her wonderful singing. But there are events coming up soon to be announced. We're working on something in Las Vegas in February as well as Arizona, so be sure to be on the mailing list@eastforest.org if you want to know about that or keep an eye out on socials, East Forest Instagram and East Forest Music on the others. And thank you to everybody on our council, the East Forest Council on Patreon. That's a way to support this podcast that is ad free except for the promotions about East Forest stuff. But we don't do any external ads at the moment. We're keeping it over there with everyone who supports on Patreon, so check it out. Patreon.com eastforest I share demos, we do some monthly group gatherings, occasional live streams, all things just to, just to go deeper together. But it's been real cold here and the sun has come back a little bit, but it was so cold that the ice bath outside the sauna, we have like one of those clawfoot tubs filled with water. Typically I just break the couple inches of ice on the top with like a hatchet or a little mini sledgehammer. And you hop in as you're doing the sauna thing. And it was so cold around, around the New Year's. Like it went down to zero at night for a couple nights. And I went out there and I started hitting it with the mini sledge. And I swear to you, there was no water. Just, well, there's water, but it was all ice. The entire tub was ice. So that's the world I'm in right now. It has warmed up since then. But that, that tub is, it's sticking to it. It's saying I'm going to be ice for a while. But enough of that. We're going to get into things here with our new friend, Sachin Patel. Sachin Patel, thank you so much for taking the time. And I first saw your, your face at the Enthal Wheel at Esalen, which we were both part of and got introduced to your work a bit there. And so I was really happy that we could connect. And how are you doing today?

I'm doing awesome. Thanks, Krishna, for asking. It's such a pleasure to be able to have this conversation. And I want to start by actually saying that this has been something that has been a manifestation, a collective manifestation of not only myself, but people from my community. Because we actually introduce our Thursday calls to your music. We do some breath work and meditation, and we actually start each session with one of your tracks. So I put a. I put an idea out there a few months ago and I said, how cool would it be to have Krishna come and speak to us and actually share with us his magical gift. And everyone got so excited and they got even more excited when I told them that we were going to be having this conversation and a conversation with them. So this is really a full circle moment for me. So thank you for being part of it.

Oh, cool, cool. Tell me a little bit more about. I always like knowing how people are using the music, like as a tool. And I mean, maybe it's a little self evident by what you said, but I mean, is there a particular song or what's the process you guys are using that just for curiosity?

So we actually start each session. So just for context, I coach a group of healthcare practitioners and health coaches, medical doctors, naturopaths, chiropractors, who are all basically looking for alternative, holistic, vitalistic solutions for their clients. And we train them and coach them on how to build a business around that. And one of the first things that we want to do is, as Tony Robbins does, is focus on their state. What state are they in? Are they in a state of receiving or are they in a state of reacting? And most people, unfortunately are in a stressed out state. Maybe not so much my audience, but we want to dive deeper into, into their state of receiving because it's hard to receive when we're in a state of reaction. So we shift them from a sympathetic dominant state into a parasympathetic state. And I'm also trained as a breathwork facilitator. So we do some different breathing techniques to alter their state of consciousness into a state that makes them more prone to learning new things, to creativity, to accessing parts of their brains that they wouldn't be accessing otherwise.

What? Excuse me, what'd you call it? Receiving or reacting?

Yes.

Do you feel like there's another side to this? Maybe it's a triangle where it's perhaps giving. Where it's sort of like you receive what you give in a way.

Yeah, I definitely think that, you know, we call that, you know, we refer to it as karma, or in our. In our culture, we call it karmic currency. It's a. It's a term that I use with them quite often. And that in order to be a great receiver, we also have to be great givers and vice versa. I actually belong to bni, which is a business networking international group many, many years ago. Feels like a different lifetime ago. And the first thing that they would teach us is a giver's gain type of mentality. So, you know, I think we have to be great givers. However, we also have to be really great receivers. And in order for us to be great receivers, we have to, you know, we have to be in a certain state. Right. Our antenna has to be positioned correctly, so to speak, in order for us to receive the signal and the information. And, you know, as we were talking a little bit before we started recording, is that we have to be in a certain state, whether it's through our diets, whether it's through our breath, whether through our thoughts or our environment, in a state where we can be the instruments of a much larger energy that's at play.

Yeah, I love that we're getting right into this. I talk a lot about clearing away the noise. Sort of an analogy I use. And I like an antenna that's got a lot of frequencies coming through. And before we came online here, we were just talking about the ceremony concert I played. And I was saying how I. I have to feel like I do that through my own diet, practice of information that I'm allowing in, and then alcohol, caffeine, as ways of clearing that noise. So I feel that essentially my antenna can. Can work better. But what I'm curious about, there's so much information these days, you know, there's so much coming at us. So on one level, you become more receptive, or perhaps do you see it as a natural state, your level of receptiveness, and then you have to curate what it is you're allowing to be inside your orbit. Or do you find that you're actually increasing your receptivity and become more sensitive? In a sense, the antenna can pick up even further AM stations from the cosmos.

Well, I definitely. One thing that comes to mind as you're. As you're saying that is a television, right? So televisions went from having, you know, maybe five or six channels that were local to now Having a thousand different challenge channels, but you can only tune into one channel at a time. Maybe two if you've got picture in picture. But you're never really doing picture Picture.

Is that still a thing?

I don't know.

That was like the biggest technology, like in the 90s or. You know, I remember Picture Picture.

It used to. I remember my uncle's television used to have four pictures and pictures. So, my God, it was like they just got. They just went ham with it, right? And. And now, like, you know, I always. The reason I said that is because there is that one person that's going to be like, well, I have picture in picture. So you can actually watch two channels at a time. So to satisfy those critics, I wanted to mention that. But, yeah, you can only really tune into one thing at a time, right? And. And it's all about frequency. So what frequency do we want to align with? And that frequency is going to be the frequency that we pick up because everything resonates with its resonant frequency. So I think that, you know, we have to get really, really good at that. One thing I realized is that if we let outside influences affect our frequency, then it's going to feel like we're bouncing all over the place. However, if we become the frequency generator and consciously control our thoughts, our environment, our breathing, you know, our nutrition, the exposure that we get to sunlight and nature, then we can actually create the frequency. And then everything that correlates with that frequency will manifest into our lives. Just like this conversation, right? Is a. Is a manifestation of. Literally. I've thought about this thousands and thousands of times. I do my breath work and meditation to your music, and I would think of this conversation every single time. And it's because I had that singular focus and that vision that this is actually happening right now. So it's. It's. It shows us how the mind can show us how powerful it is. However, we have to purify it, we have to prepare it, and we have to see the opportunities as they're unfolding. Many of us may not actually be present, present enough to witness all the great things that are happening for us. And we don't realize that in order for this conversation to happen, there were a million other moving parts that had to happen first and a million other people that had to be involved and several key people that had to be involved in order for this to take place. So I'm, you know, recognizing every single one of those steps as part of me generating that thought frequency that then propagates the entire cosmos into action to make it happen.

I tend to agree and I'm going to push back for the sake of a good conversation, if you will allow.

Of course.

All right. And also, you know, I kind of feel like when you get down to the brass tacks in the wellness world or the consciousness community, it's always good to sharpen the blade, particularly in the last year, year and a half, because things have gotten a little crazy with. So in some ways it's good to be specific. And when we say you, the frequency of your thoughts and the frequency of what's coming to us. Let's, let's pick that apart a bit because it sounds a little bit just like the secret or something. A lot of people have already, like, taken that and put that in a box and they're like, well, that's this or that's this. But I also tend to agree that, you know, energy goes where it. No, was it energy flows where attention goes or just from a cognitive behavioral standpoint, we know that you're sort of building neural pathways with certain word thought patterns, and by writing those down and changing them in a different direction, you can start to habituate that pattern and you feel differently. Your emotions come after your thoughts. In a sense, you're generating those feelings and it might not seem like that until you really pick that apart and so you translate that into the world. And what does it mean to be an agent of the world? And I feel like there's more of a middle ground where it feels like more of a conversation as opposed to I am manifesting purely my reality in front of me, or I am a victim to what is happening and I'm reacting as you put feels. It feels more like, well, the mystery itself, the paradox is that it's, it's, it's like this both and where it's. I'm manifesting, but I'm also like, I need to choose it, but it's a destiny that has a potential. In a way. It's all, it's poetry in a sense, because we're hitting up against this boundary condition where we're dealing with energies that are beyond that, you know, beyond even just our mind. It's the metaphysical into the physical. So that's a bit of a word salad. But I'm trying to say, like, when we talk about, like, frequency of our mind and our thoughts and the frequency of what's happening to us, let's, let's get into that a little bit more so we can be more concrete for the sake of the Minds out there.

Absolutely. There's a video that I show that really helps drive this point home, and there are several books that kind of reference this as well. So first, what I show people is a Cymatic plate. And a Cymatic plate is where there's a speaker connected to a frequency generator. And on top of that speaker is a metal plate, and it's usually square, and that metal plate is connected to the speaker. So as we change the frequency of sound, we can see particles of sand dancing and organizing themselves in a very specific and predictable way. So if you were to reproduce this experiment a thousand times, every single time, the sand would orient itself the same way. Now, I watched this, and I thought it was really cool. And then I went a few layers deeper, and I asked myself, and I started noticing that as you increase the frequency of the sound, you increase the complexity of how the sand can arrange itself. And it doesn't happen right away. So as you change the frequency, there is a moment, a micro moment, where the sand is rearranging and reorganizing itself. And if you pause it right at that moment, you will. You'll see nothing. You'll see complete disorganization, not realizing that each molecule of sand is on its way to reorganize itself exactly where it needs to be. It's a process where it's called to be. Exactly. And then I took it a step further, and I said, wow, like, what happens if we keep increasing the frequency? Well, the human ear can only hear to 20,000 hertz, so we can't hear everything. If we could hear everything and see everything, we'd be deaf and blind. So we have a narrow spectrum of what we can hear. But what you notice on the plate is the shapes keep getting more and more complicated. And so if we know that vibration can organize matter in a predictable way, the question then for me, in my head became, well, if. What's the most complicated structure that we are aware of? Because that structure should have the highest frequency in order to hold it intact, in order for it to be able to hold its shape in arrangement in three dimensions, it has to be vibrating at a super high frequency to match the complexity that goes along with it. And to me, that's the human brain and the mind and nervous system. And so it must be vibrating at the highest frequency, which means our thoughts are our highest frequency that we can generate. And we are quantumly entangled with every molecule in the universe, which means we are in, in a sense, sending a signal and propagating a signal out there. To all of these molecules to quant, to rearrange themselves. And that can be a process, right? It might take some molecules years to come across and organize themselves where they need to be. But this is where it gets a little funny. And you might be wondering, why is it that everyone can just manifest whatever reality they want if they just think of what they want when. Well, it's because the reorganization takes some time. And if we're constantly changing the frequency because we're affected by outside forces like the news, other people's opinions, you know, our environment, whatever the case may be, poor night of sleep, poor diet, all that information that's coming in is throwing our frequency off. So we're constantly shifting. It's almost like changing channels. If you're constantly changing channels, you're never really making any sense of what's going on. And so Napoleon Hill, in his book Thinking Grow Rich, talks exactly about this. And he says that in order for you to create whatever you want out of life, you have to have a magnificent obsession. So it's the things that we persistently think about, think about, think about. The thought vibration that we're creating is then organizing matter in a highly predictable way. And if we can get past all of that rearrangement and that and that process and detach from the emotion perhaps, and attach to the lessons that come with that process, then we can get to that final destination. And so that's, you know, that's how I describe it. And to me, that makes a ton of sense. And I've seen that unfold over and over and over in my life. But if you just take the frequency dial and you just keep adjusting it, it's just going to look like a disorganized mess, even though it's not.

Okay, so how do we do that without just being an agent in the world that is sticking their head in the sand and is not engaged in the chaos and the breakdown, the apocalyptic, unforming transformation around us, the injustice, the problems, the inevitable things that do come up in your life. So what would you say to how do we stay active in the world and be a participant but not be sullying the water with all this dirty frequency?

Yeah, so. So that's a great question. That's where I feel like meditation and breath work and that white space, that's where I feel like those tools can be extremely valuable in helping us really become that generator. And I think that for me personally, I observe things with as much equanimity as I possibly can. So I'm observing what's happening, But I'm not becoming emotionally attached to what's happening because I recognize, at least in my mind, I've come to the conclusion that it's part of a greater good. And even when we do create, the vision like this is where we have to be careful what we think of. Right? We have to be not careful, but we have to be extremely mindful of what we think of. So the reality that we're trying to bring into existence, it's not just about me. Right. It's not a selfish thing like this. You know, even this conversation. This conversation has nothing to do with me. It has to do with what happens when we come together and have a conversation and the hundreds or thousands or maybe millions of people's lives that will be positively impacted by it. So thinking beyond the actual outcome and the benefit it has to a greater good, that's. That's what kind of keeps me in the game. Because, you know, it's not about us. It's really about what can we do collectively to create a much healthier, happier whole or planet.

Yeah, I mean, you tend to see people who go through transformations, psychedelic or otherwise, and there's this recognition of feeling as you break through some of these boundary conditions, of the wholeness of it all, the oneness and that we're part of, like, drops in the water of this one great ocean. And therefore, it's sort of like everything becomes service because it's all one thing. And people often start to lean in that direction naturally. But there is sort of like a process happening where it feels like there aren't that many adults on the planet. You know, Bill Plotkin was on the podcast and. And he was talking about this in his latest book, and he's like, I think there's probably maybe 15% of people make it there these days. And most people are stuck in adolescence or maybe late adolescence and sort of their developmental pattern as a human being, we don't have the rites of passage. We don't have many aspects of our society anymore that help us presage into these states of being. So I think it's tough for people, if you think about. We're a bunch of a lot of kids, and there's a lot of, like, adolescent energy out there in the world, which is a lot about, like, well, I'm the most important, whether it's about me being the famous person or me, everyone else be damned to make as much money as I can. Again, this is not everybody, but that seems to be a prevalent energy on the planet, which is a difficult tide to work against, especially when we're at a time where all hands are needed on deck for the kind of changes we need simply to survive physically. So do you think this practice addresses that concern head on or is it sort of a side step? I think people might say as a criticism it's like, yeah, there are things that need to be done now, but do you think that fire is just going to breed more fire?

Well, in order for the end goal to be achieved, those things are done.

In order for the end goal to be achieved, those things are done. Meaning they will be done or.

Well, they are done. They're waypoints along the way. Right. So it's almost like, I'll give you a very material example. So some people can relate to this. And there's one thing that I did want to say. So there is a phrase that Damian Marley says and he poses a question and he says, are we growing tall or are we getting wiser? Like which one is it? Right. And sometimes we're just getting taller, but we're not necessarily getting wiser. And you talk about the rite of passage and I think that's very relevant. So when I think of a goal that I'm trying to, that I would love to see or a vision that I'd love to manifest and come to reality, I'll give you an old me example. So at one point I wanted a supercar. And turns out when you can have a supercar, you don't want it anymore, Right. Because you're wiser at this point it's.

A pain in the ass probably to have.

Yeah. So my wife, so I told my wife, I said, I want to get this. And she's like, well, what about this, this, this and this? I'm like, no, I wouldn't buy the car unless those things were settled first. Right. It includes me getting the car. Includes those things being non issues like.

A $900 oil change or like new tires once a month.

Well, no, it would be like, you know, what about this project that we had worked on, contribution that we wanted to make? But it assumes those things, right? So a lot of times when we're achieving a goal where we're assuming that if we want this, we can't have those things or it comes at the expense of those things. And you know, I felt for me that was a very limited belief system that I. Limiting belief system that I had that I can have that and I can have those things. It can be. And it doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both. And that, to me, living in that space felt so much better because it wasn't. Because there's abundance in the universe, and we can't truly connect with that abundance, energy. If we are assuming that we have to have. We have to make sacrifices, right? In a world of abundance, there are sacrifices. There are. There's time that I have to give up. There's resources that I have to give up. But I can have both. I can be great. I can be a great community. I can be a great contributor in my community. I can have charitable causes. I can help people where I possibly, any way that I possibly can. And I can have these other things as well, should I choose to, so that, you know, that free reframing really helped me in achieving and, you know, accomplishing. I would say achieving is probably not the right word, but accomplishing certain goals. And when I accomplish those goals, they include the happiness and abundance of everyone involved in the process as well.

So you got the supercar?

No.

No. Oh, okay.

I got wiser.

Oh, you don't need it. You don't need it. No, I mean, I guess you could rent one and be like, oh, yeah, this is crazy, but you get it. You get a Tesla or something. It'd probably feel like a supercar these days. But I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying.

Yeah, thankfully, my brother bought one, so. Oh, yeah, let me just borrow his when I need it.

Oh, what did he get?

He got a Tesla.

Tesla. Gotcha. You know, and then I think there's some people out there who would say, like, yeah, but what about, like, the systemic problems that are keeping people from even having the ability to even step into this kind of choice? Because to me, a lot of this has to do with choice. And that's just sort of the language that I think about it in. And harnessing what we actually have, the ability to choose, which is far more than I think we recognize. And when you get down to the subtle levels of energy and our thoughts, that is the fundamental level of manifestation and creativity. Even with that, though, man, for some folks, it's a tall hole to climb out of to like, where did you grow up, for instance?

I grew up in just outside of Toronto, Canada, in a town called Markham. So very, very humble beginnings for myself. And, you know, what I did have that I think was powerful, but I don't think my mom really realized it is witnessing how powerful her mind was. And that when she put her mind to something, and it was usually Something. It wasn't material, but it was. It was circumstantial. So she wants to go to India in three days. And most people would say, that's impossible. You're not going to get the visa. You're not going to get the ticket. Like, you're not going to get a seat on the plane. And she would not listen to anything that anyone would say and not even argue with them and push back. She would just keep her. Her focus on what she wants, and she would get it every single time.

Wow.

So I was like, wow. Like, this is, like, pretty cool. It's like, so powerful to witness it firsthand. And she was doing it unconsciously, so I don't think she realized how powerful she was at doing it. And I don't think she definitely didn't understand the science behind it or any of that, but she did it. She willed her way, and she gave all credit to God, which is amazing to see that and to witness that. And usually she would put God first. So even if she wanted to go to India, the first thing she'd be thinking about is not the beaches and the shopping and stuff like that. She would be thinking about the temples that she wants to go and visit. And so to her, as all the dominoes fell in the right order, it would be a message. It would be her way of receiving that message from God that, yes, you. You know, I'm going to come and see you and I'm going to come witness.

Sounds rad. Yeah, she sounds real cool. So she really engendered that in you early on. Yeah. Well, if you might maybe walk us through, like, what are some of the exercises or techniques or patterns that you like to engage in or that you'd like to teach to others that work with this. This idea of moving into a frequency or the place you want to be.

Yeah, great question. So a couple things, and some of these things may seem related or unrelated, but it's all. It's all connected, right? It's all. It's all one effort, if you will. So for me, a big thing is sleep. So I am very, very big on making sure that we get adequate sleep. Because it's in our sleep that we dream, and it's in our dreams that we form neural connections and our brain heals, our body heals, our immune system heals. So we show up as our best selves when we are well rested. And from there, the next thing I want to focus on is our connection with the sun. So every animal on the planet except human beings, is Very closely align, aligned with nature, in particular the rising and setting of the sun. And so circadian biology is such a huge needle mover because it helps us regulate our inflammation, helps us regulate our neurotransmitters, helps us regulate which helps us regulate our emotions, helps us regulate our focus, our happiness, our ability to experience gratitude is all experienced by simply getting adequate amounts of sunlight at strategic times during the day. So 10 minutes in the morning, midday if possible for people to get outside and get midday sun. And midday doesn't always mean 12 noon. Right time is kind of a man made construct, but it's when the sun is in the highest position and that changes anywhere from 10 o' clock to 2 o'. Clock. And then in the evening if we can watch the sun set, that's going to help us getting our circadian rhythm and biology dialed in. And then the third thing, the third tool that I like to use is breathing. So proper tongue posture, nasal breathing, mouth taping at night. Because it's this prana, this life energy that infuses our body and feeds our mitochondria to produce energy and thoughts and sustain our thinking as well. So we have to have those three systems working in order for us to show up a certain way. So if we're tired, if we're bathed in artificial light all day and don't get natural sunlight at all, and we're not breathing correctly, we're already setting ourselves up for failure when it comes to any process, in my opinion, whether you're a high performer in the Olympics, which, you know, I've trained athletes in that regard, or whether you're an advanced meditator or even a beginner meditator. So for me it really starts there. It starts with what, what is the physical state of my body? And it's when I have a base physical state that I can then, you know, move on to that next level. And yeah, and so, yeah, so those are the three things that I typically encourage people to start with.

Did you say taping your mouth? That was, you said yes. How do you do that with a beard and stuff? I mean, I've never heard of such a technique.

So let me grab this.

It can't be very comfortable to.

It's actually, it's painless. So this is a special type of tape. It's a 3M micropore tape. You just take about an inch and a half strip and you just put it over your lips like this.

Does it work though, that I would just imagine you just, you know, pop it off.

It does Stick to your lips a little bit. But it's more so not to. Not to take my mouth shut, but to cue my. My brain to keep my mouth closed while I sleep. And the reason for that is that when we breathe through our nose, we actually breathe much more correctly. So breathing through our nose pressurizes the air, cleanses the air, moisturizes the air temperature, regulates the air, and it also increases nitric oxide production. And nitric oxide production helps dilate blood vessels. It's antiviral, antibacterial, and it helps get more blood flow to our micro capillaries. So if I want to direct blood flow to the tiny little capillaries in the. In my brain, then I need to make sure I'm producing enough nitric oxide to do that. So breathing through our nose will help us do that. And also, your nose is one of those organs. If you don't use it, you lose it. So you want to make sure you're breathing through it as much as you can. And mouth breathing is actually one of the most common causes. The number one cause of cavities, actually.

No way.

Yeah. So breathing through your mouth is something that is one of the first things we get people to change. Adjusting their tongue posture, so making sure their tongue is in the correct position at the roof of the mouth. Your tongue is actually a postural muscle as well. It's not just for tasting and talking. It's also for positioning. You're correctly positioning your tongue will reduce tension and stress on the back of your neck and shoulders. And so it actually acts as a lever and a postural muscle as well. So we encourage those simple types of behavior changes that are easy to do. Like my son, for example, he's 11 now, but growing up, he used to get cavities. And we're like, why, dude? Why are you getting so many cavities? Like, you don't eat sugar. You don't eat this junk food. Like, we're buying all this organic food, and it's kind of flying in the face of eating healthy is good for your teeth. Right. So we were kind of scratching our heads, and then as he started growing up, we started paying more attention. I don't know if you know James Nestor, but I did an Z guy wrote the book. Yeah.

Breathing or recently. Yeah.

Yeah. So I started following a bit of his work, and my son went to an orthodontist, and three out of four orthodontists wanted to pull his teeth. They said, oh, he's got. His mouth is overcrowded. I'm like that doesn't sound right. Something's not right there. And so we finally found an orthodontist that thankfully encouraged a palatal expander. So he installed an appliance which expanded my son's palate, and now he's breathing more correctly. His. His face is. He's more handsome because he's got instead of a long, narrow face, he's got a well developed jaw and he actually doesn't get cavities anymore. So by taping his mouth at night, expanding his palate, he didn't have to have any of his teeth pulled, and he now probably doesn't. He might need some corrective braces, but very minimal. So his teeth are coming in perfectly fine now because we made space for all those beautiful teeth to come in instead of just letting the jaw form the way it would. So our tongue, when it's positioned correctly, actually expands our palate. So we have a built in palatal expander, but it has to be in the correct position in order for that to happen. So developmentally, how we position our tongue makes a huge difference in how we breathe later on in life too.

How much of a change are we talking about that you'd had with your son and the movement of his jaw essentially?

Well, it's usually a few millimeters, so we're talking about 3 to 4 millimeters. But that's significant because if we make the jaw wider, then 3 to 4 millimeters affects every tooth because it's probably.

Changed his speech, I would think too.

When he was wearing the appliance. Yes.

Yeah.

But not so much afterwards. And you get used. He got used to it pretty quickly.

I knew someone who is an anaplast physiologist I think it was called. They basically made teeth and prosthetics for the face and mouth.

Wow.

An amazing guy. And he would find teeth all the time, like on hikes and prehistoric things. But anyway, he would talk about how, like, if he just changes even a little bit, someone's tooth on the inside, it'll change. It could. It could like end a lisp they have or like completely change the way the sound is created in their mouth. And it's a wild thought. There was someone else we met who this was a little crazier. They were getting real into the paleo thing and they decided they wanted to change the shape of their mouth to be more Paleolithic, which is not a good look. But it didn't sound good, but it sounded painful. I was just like, I've never heard of this before. Why you would need to do this, but they were going for it.

Yeah. So in India and other third world countries, what they would actually do is they wouldn't use toothbrushes. So if you ever give a child a toothbrush for the first time, they don't brush their teeth with it, they start chewing it because instinctively that's what we're supposed to do. And if you ever look at a dog chewing on a bone, it's chewing on the bone and biting down and pulling it. And what that does is it actually pulls the teeth forward and allows the jaw to pull properly, expand. So as human beings, because we've, we eat such soft food nowadays, we're not giving our jaw the workout that it needs, and we're not producing the stem cells and stimulation to the jaw that are required for it to expand properly. And so what this does is changes the way we breathe. And about half the people on the planet are mouth breathers because of it. And when we are breathing through our mouths, it actually changes our physiology. So our blood pressure goes up, inflammation in our body goes up, the microbiome in our mouth starts to change. And we all know that, well, not all of us, but some of us might know that the bacteria in your mouth is closely correlated to heart disease and plaque formation. So breathing through our mouth is very detrimental to our health. And so if we can do something to stop that while people are sleeping by simply taping their mouth closed at night, you're not taping it shut. So I can still talk, I can still breathe through my mouth if I wanted to, and I can still yawn if I needed to, but with my mouth closed. And it just keeps, it stimulates me enough or creates enough of a stimulation so my mouth isn't open and. And then I stop snoring. So in the last about a year or so since I've been doing this, I don't snore anymore. And I know that's extremely beneficial for me as well.

Why is snoring bad? Aside from apnea and stuff like that? What about like low level snoring? Is that you think it's just a sign of you're breathing through your mouth or.

Well, it could be breathing through your mouth. You could also snore breathing through your nose, but it's a sign of airway obstruction. So, you know, for some people, their snoring could be a result of I have a deviated septum, but for some people it could be a result of, you know, air quality. So if there's mold in the air, it could be a result of poor food choices. If they're eating dairy or foods that are more mucogenic, then they're going to produce more mucus and that's going to create airway obstruction. And of course if their tongue isn't correctly positioned or their soft palate is weak, then that's going to create some issues and obstruct their breathing. And as we know, like breathing is one of the three dominoes. So we got to get people breathing right. And if we can get them breathing right at least eight hours a day while they're sleeping, then that's going to set them up for better health and clarity in the morning when they wake up.

So we're talking these three pillars of sun, sleep and breathing about the body and then how that sort of is I guess the launching pad to this antenna of your mind. Well, maybe we'll stick with the body for a bit. Let's talk about food a little bit. It's a huge subject. But generally speaking, do you have, if you had to give people like where would you start to try to direct them on advice with food, which in which is a very complex subject.

Yeah. So I have a very, very contrarian answer or response to that. And the first thing we plan out, well, the first thing we always plan out with people is when they're not going to eat. So it's so much easier than trying to figure out what they are going to eat, to figure out when not to eat. So we generally introduce people to fasting practices in our practice, in our coaching services, because what that does is it has nothing to do with food. So they don't. There's no preparation required, mental preparation of not eating at a certain time. But that's one of the first things we do is we narrow their feeding window and so they're only eating between certain hours of the day. Ideally our digestive system is strongest midday. So that's when we should be having our biggest meal. And then a medium sized breakfast and then a very light dinner is what we recommend. And so if we had to look at it from that perspective, medium, large and then small, we try to eliminate food intake three hours before bedtime because again then we're creeping into disrupting sleep and such and healing as well. So that's the first thing we do. We encourage people to have a narrow feeding window. Perhaps once a week or once a month they do a 24 hour water fast where they're not eating anything and all they're doing is drinking water because this is one of the fastest ways to heal the system. See, think of it this way. When a child is unwell, or even when an adult is unwell, their body tells them exactly what to do. The reason they don't feel good or heal as quickly is because they resist that. So when we're sick, our body tells us to stop eating, right? We lose our appetite. And what do most people do? They try to eat food and they end up throwing up or their mom's giving them soup or foods to eat. When in reality, what their body's saying is, I don't want anything right now. Because every time you eat, the immune system has to meet and greet every single molecule of food that comes in. And I need that immune system focused on healing and repairing this active bacteria or pathogen that we're dealing with. So that's one thing is fast, and the other thing our body naturally does is sleep, right? So we don't feel well, we sleep. And then when we don't feel well, we also go into a state of silence, right? We kind of go off into a corner and allow our body to work its magic. So food can be the same way. So when people come to me and they say, hey, I have rheumatoid arthritis, what's the best diet for me? I said, well, no, let's actually figure out when we can start you on a fasting protocol and eliminate that chronic stress of eating food, which you place on your digestive and immune system every time you have a meal. The fastest way, if somebody has rheumatoid arthritis to get rid of their pain, is actually a three day water fast. Three days. Wow. Yeah. And what you quickly realize is because your immune system can only react to a protein. And so if you stop introducing new proteins into the system, then there's nothing for your immune system to react to. And so we can actually dampen that response, that autoimmune response, by simply cutting out food from people's diets. And it sounds insane. It sounds crazy now. And that's actually not because we have the capacity to do this. In fact, we have processes that are only activated in a fasting state. Processes such as autophagy, where we start getting rid of senescent cells, weak cells that we're no longer using. And we also start tapping into the most toxic parts of our body, which is visceral fat, and that's the fat that surrounds our organ system. So when we go into multiple day fasts, then we start experiencing very, very deep healing. And in fact, if we Go to five days. Then on days four and five is when new stem cells are released and our body can actually repair and regenerate organs and systems.

Wow. Is this different than intermittent fasting or similar concepts?

So intermittent fasting, and there's different, different schools of thought on intermittent fasting. So intermittent fasting can be a certain eating window, right? So you eat between a certain time and let's say your intermittent fasting is 16 and 8. So you're eating for 16, you're off 16 hours and then you're eating within, within an eight hour window. What we do is we take a little, little bit further and we want to make sure that, that eight hours isn't butting up against bedtime. And we want to try to ensure that your biggest meal is going to be in the middle of the day. Midday is when we want you to have the biggest meal. So we're adding a little bit of strategy to it beyond just, you know, fast and loose rules of 18 hour or 16 hours of fasting and 8 hours of eating. And then the timing is going to be important. And then when it comes to food, the other thing that's vital and this often overlooked is what we call the five Cs. So the first C is you have to choose the right foods based on who you want to become, right? Your food becomes you, it becomes your thoughts, it becomes your cells, it becomes your tissues, it becomes your organs. And that meal doesn't just stick around for, you know, 24 hours and then you poop it out, it actually becomes parts of your tissue. And so that meal can stick around for years. In some cases, if it becomes part of a bone cell, it could stick around for seven years. So we want to make sure that people recognize that they're eating for who they want to become and then they have to choose how they feel about that food. So if you and I were eating the same meal, let's say it's a beautiful, delicious organic salad that, you know, a loved one prepared for us. But if you're cursing that meal and be like, man, I'd rather be having a hamburger right now or I'd rather be having French fries right now. Not that you would do that, but you know, instead of having, instead of having what you're actually having and being present to it, that's going to change your interaction with that food. And so there's that part to take into consideration as well. We live in the first time in human history where people complain about eating healthy food, right? They're like, oh, My God, you're telling me I got to eat healthy like you should be so lucky to be able to eat healthy, right? To have that choice is such a privilege. So choose. The next one is chewing. So chewing our food is very often overlooked and underrated, but it's one of the most conscious things that we need to do. So we need to conscientiously chew each and every single bite, especially if we're eating plant based foods. So plants are encapsulated, their cells are encapsulated in something called cellulose. And so in order for us to get the nutrition out of that plant cell, we have to break open that cell wall. We can't do that with enzymes. Our stomachs and digestive system don't make the enzyme cellulase. So if you swallowed a salad, you would poop a salad the next day because there's nothing that our body can digest through and all that nutrition would be completely wasted. So by chewing our food, we're actually doing a few things. One, we're stimulating our jaw. So we're getting proper strengthening of the jaw taking place. We're masticating that food and massing, mashing it up so that we're increasing the surface area. So when we increase surface area, there's more surface area for the enzymes in our stomach and digestive organs to then digest that food. And then we're also stimulating a specific reflex in our, in our body that tells our body we're having a meal, it's time to send blood to the digestive system instead of sending it to the arms and legs. And it switches us from a sympathetic state to, into a parasympathetic state. And so chewing our food is so vital, so overlooked, and one of the lowest opportunities, lowest hanging opportunities that we have to improve our health. In fact, before I change somebody's diet, I will first focus on improving and upgrading how they actually chew the food that they are eating currently. And we find that bloating starts to go away, gas starts to go away, heartburn starts to go away, bowel movements started to improve because people are actually taking that first step, right? So we have to make sure that that first conscientious physical step of chewing our food is taking place. Your stomach doesn't have teeth, it can't do that for you. And think of digestion like a car wash. So if you go through a car wash, every step is required and every step requires the previous step is done. So if I'm going to put soap on my car, I need to make sure. There's water first. If I'm going to run the brushes, I need to make sure there's soap, otherwise I'm going to damage the paint. And so we need to make sure with digestion that all those steps are taking place. The third thing is chill. So we got to choose the right chill, right? Yeah, you got it. You want to get out into. You want to get into a state where you're parasympathetic. When we're in that parasympathetic state, we are in a rest and digest state. And so when we're in rest and digest, we are sending blood to our digestive organs. Think of it this way, at in a fight or flight state, there's an 80% decrease of blood flow to your digestive organs. So if you're even. This is one of the reasons we never encourage our clients to eat while they're standing up. You want to always eat while you're sitting because now we can direct that blood flow to your digestive organs instead of away to your legs. So getting that blood flow to that organ system is important. That's where we want to be in a relaxed state. And so we could play some calming music, we could take a few deep breaths, we could, you know, chant a prayer or sing a prayer. And that gets us into that parasympathetic state. Okay.

Okay.

So choose, chew, chill. Cherish is number four, which is you want to be grateful for that meal for the person that grew it. You may not know them personally, but the person that grew and allowed and enabled it to be on your plate at this moment. And then number five is, we want you to check. So daily checking your stool, making sure there's no weird colors, weird smells, discoloration, no blood in your stool. The food is being digested. So if you see little bits of cilantro and celery and or, you know, bits of food in there, then you know you're not doing a good job chewing that food. And so those are the five things that we usually start with, along with meal timing when it comes to food, and then when it comes to specific instructions on what to eat. We encourage people to eat balanced based on, again, who they want to become. So they want to make sure they're getting healthy, clean sources of protein. I'm personally vegan, but not all of our clients are. So 4 ounces of animal protein or plant based proteins. They want to get 4 ounces of veggies, 4 ounces of fruit, and they can have unlimited salads and greens with Their meals. So that's going to give you a good balance of macro and micronutrition without getting, you know, overly complicated.

What about oils and fats in general? I mean.

Yeah, so. So that's a great question. So fats are not naturally occurring, so we try to minimize the amount of fat people are adding to their foods. We want to encourage healthy fats through, like, nuts and seeds that they would get throughout their day. And then if they are going to use oils, olive oil is an excellent oil to drizzle on their salads and foods. We generally try to avoid, as much as possible, cooking with oils. If they are going to cook with oils, then avocado oil is a good oil to cook with. Ghee. If they are consuming animal products, then ghee is an excellent oil to cook with. And coconut oil can be excellent as well. Wow.

Well, that's a really deep answer. Thank you for that. And the fasting, do you find that that has to be, like, every day or it's as far as, like, your window of eating? Or is it more like at least, you know, hey, if you can aim for four or five days a week? Or is it like, there's no pain, no gain here?

No, I mean, I think it's important that people meet themselves where they're at. Even with any of the recommendations I ever give, it's meet yourself where you are and then go outside your comfort zone, because that's where the growth takes place. For women and men, the rules of fasting can be a little bit different. Of course, if somebody's pregnant or breastfeeding, that changes things. And of course, depending on what their goals are, if they want to lose weight or put on some muscle, then we would adjust the calorie intake and such.

So all of this, I mean, it's about good health. And good health is sort of about being a good antenna. Circling it back to the beginning of this conversation, and I'm assuming this naturally, your mind, your brain is part of your body. And do you find that this changes the way you feel and think?

Yeah. You know, as a chiropractor, I used to. I used to work with a lot of people who were in pain. And when you're in pain, the conversations are very different. And when you don't have pain, the conversations are very different. So, you know, our pain keeps us in our physical body and sometimes can be a gentle reminder that that physical body is still there. It keeps us grounded, you know, it keeps us. It reminds us that we're still here. However, for some People that chronic inflammation, that chronic pain, that fatigue, that fogginess that they're feeling, you know, they're usually looking to fix that first because our brains are trying to get rid of pain first before they seek pleasure. And. And so we want to always eliminate the pain that people are experiencing so that they can achieve those heightened senses and become better antennas, if you will.

Yeah. Do you find, though, that there's an element of sometimes, like psychological or latent unconscious emotions that can be causing pain that you might think is purely physical?

Yeah, almost always. So that's a beautiful question, and I appreciate that you asked that. So we find that a lot of pain is stored in the tissues. My mentor, Joe Polish, says that it's. And he. He's quoting somebody else. I'm going to quote him, but he says the issues are in the tissues. So human beings actually are not always allowed to fully express ourselves, men especially, we have to put on a game face, or we have to act tough or behave a certain way. And sometimes even young girls, when they're expressing their emotions, they might get the wrong feedback. And that feedback could cause them to suppress how they feel and not fully express themselves. A hyena in the wild, for example, if it's being chased, if it survives the chase, it finds a quantum quiet place and essentially has a seizure and gets rid of all those toxic chemicals, those stress chemicals that it was producing, and it goes on about its life. Whereas human beings, we keep those things contained within us, whether it's for, you know, maintaining a relationship or whether it's because we were told when we were young that we can't do this and can't express ourselves this way. That energy has to go somewhere. And, you know, usually that energy does not like to be ignored. So it will find a way to show up in your life in a way that you can't ignore it. And eventually it's going to take its toll on you. Right. So when you stop listening to the knocking, the knocks get louder and louder, and then eventually somebody blows the door down.

Yeah, I've had some experiences with this, and we've had a few people on the podcast. Nicole Sacks, I think is. Maybe that's. I believe that's her name. Apologies for getting previous guests. It was a while ago, but I'll look it up. But she sort of a. Was a healing back pain. That was kind of a famous book about this sort of subject. And we had another gentleman who's a spinal surgeon who kind of shifted to less surgery and more the psychological approach for A lot of surgeries, not all. Like, I've been dealing with this shoulder pain for months and I've been thinking about it like, well, what, you know, what is my body trying to distract me from or, or point out to me? And I'm honestly having a hard time figuring it out. I'm like, maybe, maybe I did injure it. And I just keep re injuring it with these exercises I'm doing. But sometimes.

Tell me about that.

Well, I can't pinpoint when it started. It feels like it's been so long now. Like months and maybe six months, maybe longer. But when I even reach up to get a seat belt, I've noticed I prop my arm up because it hurts to do it. And when I sleep on my side, I can't sleep on the. I'm a side sleeper. I can't sleep on the side so much because it kind of. There's pain and kind of feels like it's across the muscle here. But now it starts to feel like it's in the joint itself and on the inside and the outside and doing this kind of hurts in here on the inside and I can't. I've been meaning to see like a physical therapist or something to be like, because I do, I do work out and I do a lot of exercises with my own body weight, like push ups and things like that and dips. And I'm guessing something in there definitely seems to be not helping it. So in that sense it feels physical. But I have thought about it, like, because I've had other instances in my life where I had pain that turned out to be most definitely psychological. And when I worked with it that way, that was the only way to work with it. And so I really learned that lesson deeply. So I keep it in my consciousness that. But this one's confusing to me.

Yeah. You know, the reason I asked, the reason I probed a little bit is because I've been experiencing almost a phantom like pain in my right shoulder.

Yeah. It's only my right.

And there's really no explanation for it. There's no physical explanation for it. And it'll bother me. It doesn't bother me now, but it'll bother me sometimes in the evening when I have to like, pull the covers off. But I'm lifting weights and I'm doing totally fine there. So it doesn't bother me in the gym at all. It's almost like this really strange, like phantom discomfort that I'm having in my shoulder and I'm trying to. I've. I Have a few theories on what it could be, but I haven't been able to, like, you know, put my. Put my finger on it.

Yeah, it's tricky sometimes, and I'm. It's. It's funny because, like, I. I have this invitation to my whole being to be like, let. Let's. Let's talk about this. Let's be in communication. I want to learn. I want to grow. I want to face whatever this might be. But I don't know. I don't know what it is.

I'm assuming you're. You're a bit of an empath.

I'm very sensitive, that's for sure.

Yeah.

I can pick up my.

My theory is, is there's a lot of people that are giving up their shoulders right now for a particular procedure. So I'm curious if I'm feeling kind of the global, you know, effect of that, and I'm an antenna for receiving it in some way, shape or form.

I think we're all, like. We're all sponges and just how aware of it we are, and just all this information that we pull into our lives, particularly lately, it's just. It's a kind of information sickness, and it's very challenging. If anything, the. The calling of our times right now is. Is navigating, you know, kind of curating our own life, the house and the religion of you, like, your beliefs and the foods and what you. What you look at, what you put your attention on all day long. Because everyone's vying for it these days, and it's very valuable, both monetarily and energetically.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. It's a trip, man. Well, I'll. I'll keep looking into this. This shoulder thing. I. I do feel, though, when I do exercises, like, it actually hurts quite a bit. And I'm like. So it feels like I gotta stop doing the dips and stuff, which I have. But now I'm trying to, like, just really pay attention to what physical motions cause the pain.

And put your arm out in front of you about 30 degrees. Yeah. And then turn your thumb upside down, pointing downward. Yep. Does that hurt? There's.

Yeah, there's some pain.

And then push. Push your wrist down towards the ground against resistance.

That's less pain. The pain's more on the inside of the shoulder. And when I push down, I'm feeling muscles on the outside, and those feel good.

Okay.

Yeah.

Is there particular movements that bother it? You said dip.

Like, that starts to get it. But definitely when I'm doing this, and that's Using these muscles in here, on the inside of the shoulder, that, that's like not pleasant sometimes. Basically when I'm using my shoulder, trying to lift something really heavy, you know, I'm like, wow, I gotta pay attention there because it'll, it'll be sore like afterwards, you know, and it feels like it's sore across, across the muscle in a sense.

Yeah.

Where those muscles cross, you know, the deltoid and the. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm thinking there's probably some rotator cuff issue going on there and it's, it's causing destabilization which is likely causing a gliding of your humeral head in the shoulder joint, which is usually. I used to work with a lot of baseball players so kind of familiar with the shoulder quite a bit. The subscapularis muscle is usually involved in something like this. So that's like deep inside on the, on the other side of your shoulder blade, if you will. So if you can get in there and start mobilizing that, opening that up, that should help. And then strengthening your infraspinatus. And Terry's, Terry's major muscle will be helpful too.

So massage you're saying? Or as far as the getting in there or is that a stretching type thing?

No, so it's. The technique we use is called active release technique where you're actually digging your thumb in there and a trained thumb of course, and then you're taking your arm through a range of motion which then starts breaking up the adhesions and the scar tissue. There's about 38 structures in your shoulder. So it's a very complicated joint and that's what allows it to have the such amazing mobility. But then if just a few of those are off, then the mechanics of the shoulder get thrown off.

Wow, thank you. Sounds like a sort of rotator cuffy, which is what my intuition was. I didn't know much about it, but I just felt like it had something to do with that. I'm right handed too, so I use this a lot and.

Ah, okay, I'll send you, I'll send you some stuff after this that you can take a look at.

Thanks man. Well, it's, you know, I was looking at your site, you know, functional medicine, but they had this phrase lifestyle medicine, I think and it's this idea of like how your whole life and medicine and what is medicine and how all just has this fluid process and I don't think people want it to feel heavy. Like everything is labored. You know, how I eat and chew and breathe and sleep. It's like I want to just be. But I can also appreciate the mindfulness of it all and recognizing how all of these different disparate aspects of our lives culminate to create our consciousness, you know, our state of being and receiving in the world and giving.

Yeah. I mean, the intention isn't for it to be laborious. It's for it to become, you know, in the beginning, if we're not doing these things, we'll do them consciously, right? So we're probably. There's four stages of competency which many of your listeners probably know, right? So it's the unconscious incompetence. So we don't even know that. We don't know. Right. So some people may not know that why it's important to chew their food. Now they do. And then there's conscious incompetence where we know we should be doing this. So after. After today we should all know to chew better. But we may choose not to. Right. Or we may forget to. Or we may just go back into our unconscious patterns. And there's conscious competence, which is where we know we're chewing. Well, like, yeah, you know, I really chewed that bite. I gave it all I got. And then there's conscious income or unconscious competence, where we didn't have to think about it, we didn't have to give ourselves a pat on the back. We were just doing it. So I think if we can move, you know, certain behaviors into that unconscious pattern system where we're doing it competently at an unconscious level, it takes almost zero bandwidth of thought and energy. But now we're each. Each day, each moment is essentially becoming something that we're. That has an intention and an effort that we put into. Into it. However, it's not taking up any mental bandwidth to actually do it. Like, it'd be annoying if you had to think of each and every single breath, right? So we'd want to. We want to get to a state where we can do it unconsciously, and that's where passive things can be helpful. So, you know, passively doing something like taping your mouth shut at night or closed at night is something where you don't have to think about it and it's happening, you know, for you as you're sleeping. Other things, like big things I like are lighting, right. So using, you know, our. Our screens, unfortunately, don't have adequate amounts of red light in them. So I actually have a couple of red bulbs right next to my screen so that my. My eyes are also eating that information every Every time that I'm looking at my screen, another big thing like I have on my desk is, is a grounding mat. So, you know, it's passive again. I'm not, you know, having to give it any thought, but every time I touch it, I'm now grounded electric electrically with the planet. And so, yes, I can go outside and get my bare feet in the grass. But you know, how about when I'm sitting at my desk and I can't do that? Well, at least I can electric, you know, be connected to the earth that way. So I'm really big on, you know, when we think of lifestyle medicine, it's really about what can we do that's super passive. And if it's passive, then odds are there's going to be collateral benefit to others around you. So if I change the lighting in my home, my whole family benefits. Right. Today was actually a very monumental day for us. We got a water softening and purification system installed. So right before this presentation, I was taking a shower for the first time in soft water. And so those are things like the whole family is going to benefit from that now. Right. So one time investment and we all benefit from it from everywhere. All the way up from the water that we drink, cook our food in, grow our food in, and then also shower in is now up leveled and improved. So our big goal with lifestyle medicine is how do we make it fun, how do we make it passive and then how do we get it so that it's unconscious? You don't even know you're doing it, but you're doing it right.

I love it. Well, there's so much to dive into. Thank you for your time. I hope we can do this again sometimes and continue the conversation.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah. What's the best way for people to interact with all these things you're doing?

Well, few ways. Thanks for asking. One is they can go to our website@becomeproof.com they can also follow me on Facebook at Sachin Patel or the Sachin Patel on Instagram. And yeah, I'm always happy to connect and learn about individuals, but also learn how I can help them live their best life.

Well, it was fun. Thanks for your time and thanks for all the info.

Thanks, Krishna. I appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity.

Thank you so much, Sachin for coming on the show. I really enjoyed that. Look forward to more. I can to refer report for those that care that my shoulder is feeling a bit better. I did go to physical therapy and sort of got an AFFIRMATION to say that what he was thinking, his intuition about it, he was right. He was right. So it's feeling a little better. And I've been doing, since we had that recording, doing some exercises and trying to pull my shoulder back towards my socket, strengthen up the back, and things are looking up. Thanks, Sachin. This song that you're hearing in the background is called Voyagers and it is the first collaborative track I did with Anna. We've worked on a few more and I really hope we can finish those and get them out to the world because the other ones are just even more awesome. And I love. I love working with her and what she brings to the table. I just did a collaboration with an artist named Miriam. Came in from Vegas for about three nights, two and a half days. We were in the studio and we went deep. So I'm just. Just coming out of that. Just coming like into the. Back into the world from pulling out the MIDI keyboard and things I haven't used in a while, but it was fun. It's always fun to like shake up your process of creation. And she has a really incredible voice, so check her out if you get a chance. And I have have plenty to dig into to get those tracks done. But anyway, thanks again for listening, for subscribing and everyone on our council. Patreon.com eastforest and see if the council is right for you. And thank you to everyone on there who supports. Just want to give a shout out to Richard, who signed up as a council cub. Thank you so much and thank you to everybody else in the council. Well, until next week, I will catch you. Hope you guys stay healthy and keep your head on straight. You just keep walking your walk. Don't take any. But if you do, you know what to do.

Do it with grand.