In this episode of the "This Went With Me" podcast, Sally Koering Zimney walks listeners through Chapter 31 of her book Speaking Story, which focuses on managing nerves and adrenaline when speaking. She opens with a brief explanation of the podcast’s format and why she adds conversational commentary to the audiobook. Sally shares a personal anecdote about delivering a commencement address, describing the physical sensations of adrenaline—knocking knees, sweaty palms, and the internal dialogue that can make speakers feel they don’t belong. She debunks the myth that nervous physical reactions signal incompetence, emphasizing that they are a natural response rooted in our ancient brain’s fight‑or‑flight system. The core of the chapter is a set of practical strategies: (1) give yourself three minutes for the body to settle; (2) repeatedly expose yourself to high‑stakes speaking situations (“walk into the pack of lions”); (3) experiment with personal tricks such as temperature‑changing objects, shake‑outs, and deep breathing; (4) use outside‑in body tactics inspired by Amy Cuddy’s power‑pose research, clothing, music, and grounding techniques. Sally also recommends Matt Abrahams’s Speaking Up Without Freaking Out for additional tactics. The episode includes a short testimonial from former Fortune‑500 executive Tony, and promotional plugs for the Be Moved Institute, the Unspeaker Simple Storytelling course ($49), and the full ad‑free audiobook on Audible. The episode concludes by encouraging listeners to lean into the feeling of having more to say and to use the offered resources to build self‑trust and reduce adrenaline.
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Hey everybody, and welcome back to This Went With Me, where we are going chapter by chapter through my book, Speaking Story. Hello, my name is Sally Koering Zimney. I'm a keynote speaker and the author of this book and the host of this podcast. We are at 300 and blah blah many podcast episodes. But over the course of the last month and a half or so, we have been dropping episodes every week, part by part, from my book Speaking Story, the audiobook version of it. And yes, you can go grab it over on Audible right now if you're kind of tired of the extra chit-chat around the content from the book, which is totally fine. But some people, I've heard both, I've heard both from people, I'm not gonna lie. Some people have been like, "Okay, can you just get right to it?" I'm like, "Well, I think this is kind of the idea, to talk around it and through it and make it a little more conversational than an audiobook is, of course, because the book is meant to be sort of passively taken in. It's not a conversation," versus I think a podcast has a little bit more of a conversational feel, of course. So, and then some people have been like, "I love to hear all the little extra things." I'm like, "Okay, well," Just a reminder, can't please everybody. So here we are at Chapter 31, and Chapter 31 is all about dealing with nerves and adrenaline. And let me just start by telling you that, you know, obviously I'm a keynote speaker. I've been doing this professionally for a long time. I've been a paid speaker since I was 24, maybe 25, 25, 25. And have been on stages since I was young, and I love it and still find the nerves and adrenaline are something that I manage and have to be aware of. In fact, I did a commencement address for my alma mater a month or, I don't know, whatever. Time is weird. Anyway, at the end of the school year, as you might imagine, when they do commencement addresses, so I was so excited to be asked. I was delighted to be there. And I woke up that morning and was like, "I gotta change it. I gotta change this. I gotta change that." I mean, I felt such a sense of responsibility about it, which I think kind of added to the pressure around it, even though I knew it was gonna be a very warm audience. And I mean, it's a weird format. This is not my typical format. I'm standing behind a podium. I hate podiums, as you know, if you've been listening to the book. But that is the structure and the expectation of this. And I definitely wasn't gonna have it memorized. So, you know, I wrote the speech and I, by the time I got there, I was like, okay, I think it's, I think it's good. I think I'm ready. And then you walk in the room and you're like, wow, there's gonna be like 2,000 people in here. Oh, okay. I mean, I knew that, but then you see all the chairs, you're like, okay.
Hmm.
And you do the sound check and you're up there and you're like, okay, there's a bit of an echo. And then the pomp and circumstance. And I love all that stuff. I love it. And when I stood up there behind that podium for the first time, I think ever in my whole ding dang life, my little knees were knocking together. I was like, wow, the adrenaline is present. The adrenaline is present, even though I would literally am like, This is awesome. I mean, my husband said to me last night, because I was just talking about all these things I have to do and feeling overwhelmed by it, and he said, Sally, give yourself a break. You've been doing all these— you did a commencement address, you've done this and this and this. And I was like, I will do a commencement address every day rather than— and enjoy it and love it. And my knees were knocking together. Like, so I say that because I think sometimes people believe that if they get nervous, if adrenaline shows up, if your knees start to shake, if your palms get sweaty, if you, whatever, you sh— you shake a little bit, all the ways that adrenaline shows up in our bodies, we think it is meaningful. We think that it means something like, "You must not belong here. You must not know what you're doing. You must not be ready. You must," you know, not have— "belong" is the best word for it. "You must not belong in this moment." And I just know that that is not true because I belong on stage. I belonged in that moment, giving that commencement address, and my knees were knocking together. Both things are true. Both things are true. So in this chapter, we will get, get at it, and we're going to talk honestly about nerves and adrenaline and what can help. But the truth is, it's all about your relationship with fear. And that is the thing that can change everything. So let's just cuddle up to it, shall we? Cozy on up, snuggle up to your fear. Snuggle it up, team. Let's dive in. Let's do this because it isn't meaningful and it doesn't mean that you don't belong. And we're not gonna let that stand in your way. All right? Yay. Okay, good chat. Let's do this.
Hey everybody, and welcome to This Moved Me, a podcast about creating talks that move the world. With me, your host, Sally Koering Zimney.
This complimentary listening of the Speaking Story audiobook is brought to you in part by the Be Moved Institute, what we also call B.M.I. And I want you to hear something from Tony, former Fortune 500 executive who came to me at a real turning point in his life and his message.
You can have the greatest idea in the world, but if you're not clear, if you don't come through clearly, then none of that matters. But in the end, are you connecting? Are you really moving people? And that's what Sally teaches.
Tony also said that working together brought him, his words, out of the shadows and into the light. That is the work.
And here's the thing.
Leadership almost always comes with a microphone, a meeting, a board presentation, a conference keynote you didn't exactly volunteer for. And most leaders have never had anyone actually help them find their story, not just polish their slides. And that's exactly what I built the Unspeaker Simple Storytelling course for. It's audio only, so you can do it on a walk or in your car. It's $49, just enough to get you going. And it is the fastest way I know to help you find the leadership stories that are already inside you. You can get started at sally-koering-zimney.com/unspeaker. And when you're ready to go deeper, come find us at sally-koering-zimney.com/institute.
Now let's get into the chapter. Chapter 31: Dealing with Nerves and Adrenaline. If you do not tell the truth about yourself, You cannot tell it about other people. Virginia Woolf. It was an out-of-body experience. I've heard this line about 100 times over the years to describe the first few minutes of someone's speech. It's often how my speakers describe an experience that felt especially high stakes or nerve-wracking. It's that feeling of floating a bit, of not being totally connected to reality. Maybe you're not even sure of what came out of your mouth or what really happened. It's almost like you're watching yourself from above. And wow, we have so much to say about ourselves as we're watching while speaking to an audience at the same time. It's a familiar feeling, and that response makes sense given the research around adrenaline I'm about to share with you. But it's also not helpful. Being in the body is part of how we can be especially present and connected, not just to the moment at hand, but also to the audience in front of us. We can't really be present with our audience when we're having a simultaneous conversation with ourselves about ourselves. So what's happening there, and why is it such a universal experience? As you might know, in the deepest and most primitive parts of the human brain is the source of those physical responses. We end up reacting to high-stakes moments, even if they're not actually high stakes, as if we are in real, actual danger. Danger. The part of our ancestors' brains that was yelling, "Run! Lions!" is the same one telling you, "Run! People are looking at you!" Which is really not helpful, because the whole point is for people to look at you. So how do we deal with adrenaline when we're speaking? Is it just an unfortunate and avoidable part of the process? Yes and no. For any person who's about to do something they care about or something they've never done before, it's normal and expected that your body will have an adrenaline response to it. How big of a response though? And how debilitating will it be? So if you're looking at the book right now, yeah, I don't know, maybe you're one of those people who has the audiobook and the hardcover. Hi, you're my people. If that's you and you're looking at the graph, you'll notice that the higher the self-trust, the lower the adrenaline. The lower the self-trust, the higher the adrenaline. It's got one of those relationships. And my ultimate goal as a coach is to move you toward self-trust so that you can stand up to speak your story and know that whatever happens, you'll be okay. You can make the most of the experience, and you just might make some magic. So how does adrenaline show up for you? Everybody's got something. You may get the shakes, a dry mouth, a trembling voice. You may get really cold. Or really hot. Your legs may wiggle a little bit. You may find yourself doing all kinds of fidgety things that you wouldn't normally do. For me, I sweat.
I always have.
My theater costuming people are always like, "Sally, find better antiperspirants," but nothing could stop the flow of sweat, my friends. It has nothing to do with how strong my deodorant is. I'm very sorry in advance. It is just a pure adrenaline response. So what is happening? Why is it happening? And can we do anything about it? Let's just say that it's not totally avoidable. It's something that is simply a part of this experience, and if that's true, then here's what you can do. Tip #1: Give yourself 3 minutes. That's about how long it takes for the body to realize that it's okay. Sometimes it's a little more or a little less, but if you've ever had a strong adrenaline response, 3 minutes is about how long it takes for your body to calm a bit and bring your focus back to the present moment instead of bouncing around in panic. Unfortunately, those first 3 minutes are really important for the audience, and if you're having an out-of-body experience and your body's freaking out at the exact time when you want to be on, how do you deal with that? Pay particular attention to and focus most of your preparation on The beginning. You might not have total control over what's happening in your body, so you want to feel confident enough about your beginning that you don't leave as much up to chance. I hesitate to use the word autopilot here, 'cause that connotes you're not thinking or present at all. If your brain and body aren't present, we want you to know your beginning so well that you can get through it well enough, which sometimes is as good as it gets. So give yourself 3 minutes and prepare well for your beginning. Tip number 2: Keep walking into the pack of lions. The more often your body meets the pack of lions and survives, and even thrives, the less of an impact adrenaline will have on you. Eventually, your body will understand that you're going to be okay and begin to calm itself more quickly. You teach your body that you're going to be okay by simply surviving. And you will survive. You might not thrive all the time, but you will survive. There will be days when you're going to have a super strong adrenaline reaction, and there will be days when you won't. It's dependent on your ever-complicated human experience at that time. The struggles you're facing, the context you're walking into, what you ate for breakfast, whether you slept okay— it all impacts the body. Tip #3: Find the tricks that work for you. Again, I imagine you might be sarcastically thinking right now, "Awesome, Sally, so you're saying that no matter what, I'm going to have to deal with my body and its adrenaline issues?" Well, yes, it's likely. This response is happening at such a deep place in our brains and body that we cannot out-think it. We cannot mantra our way out of adrenaline completely. We cannot control it, but over time, after facing the lions 1 or 10 times, your body will recognize more quickly that you faced this particular pack of lions before and survived. Until then, find the tricks that work for you. There are some things that can help soothe your body and your mind that will trickle down to your adrenaline. For me, whenever I'm hot or my cheeks are getting really red, I hold something cold in my hands, like a cup of water, and it helps calm my core temperature a little bit. Here are some other ideas: If you're cold or you feel especially jittery or nervous, hold a warm cup that can help soothe those nerves. If you get the shakes in your hands or legs, try doing a big shakeout and move the adrenaline through your body so it has a place to go. Do lots of deep breathing. This is essential. Pro tip: A great resource for you—read Speaking Up Without Freaking Out by Matt Abrahams. He's a Stanford communications professor, and he has been a guest on my podcast, This Moved Me. In his book, he offers tons of strategies to help people get through their nerves and speak. Tip #4: Focus from the inside out. We can't outthink adrenaline or control it by screaming at the mirror, "You can do this!" for 24 hours straight, but you can ease your response by starting from the outside, aka the body, and going in, aka the mind. Amy Cuddy showed us in her TED Talk that we can convince our mind of things based on what our body does. For instance, if you hold that Superwoman pose for 2 minutes, at the end you feel much more that you can do it. What we do with our bodies affects how we feel, which can impact our adrenaline response. So try some of these outside-in tactics. Put yourself in an outfit that you feel fabulous in. Suddenly, at the core brain level, you start to believe that you can do this. Walk the space that you're going to speak in. You'll visualize it better afterward, and you'll convince yourself that you've already done this well. If you need more energy, put on some energetic music and dance. Soon your body will join you there. If you need to calm your body, put on calming music, plant your feet on the ground, and put your hand over your heart. Feel your heartbeat and bring your mind to the present moment. If your brain is racing when you practice on your feet, try speaking with your feet on the floor. Watch how your brain stops scrambling. And now, P.S., you know that your feet and your brain are connected. Now, in case you're like, "Listen, lady, I don't freak out," that may totally be the case, but despite how strong your adrenaline reaction is, every single one of the above tactics will help you get more focused, present, clear, and confident in what you are about to do. And if you've never faced adrenaline or nerves before, I have to ask if you're taking enough risks. When I hear a speaker that is never nervous, Then I would say they're not pushing themselves. Adrenaline is simply a part of the experience of doing something important, real, and risky. That's the end of this chapter of Speaking Story.
You can find the full audiobook ad-free on Audible or subscribe so that the next one drops right in your feed. And if anything in this chapter stirred something in you, that feeling of "I have more to say than I'm currently saying," that is the feeling I want you to follow. The Unspeaker Simple Storytelling Course is $49, and it is literally like having me in your back pocket on a walk. So start there. Go to sally-koering-zimney.com/unspeaker. And when you want to go further, We are here for you at Sally-KoeringZimney.com/institute.
All right, movers. This moved me. What is moving you? See you next time.
