A Journey Through 8,000 Years of Winemaking

Good morning, everybody. Uh, welcome to Saturday. What is it? The 27th of December. I'm sure many of you are on vacation and enjoying your time with friends and family, but here at Drink Up, we just had to come talk about wine today. And I wanted to welcome our special guests, Kurt Parsons and Will Parsons. Is it from Parsons Fine Wine Imports? Is that the name of the company?

Parsons Fine Imports.

Parsons Fine Imports. Before we get started though, we just have a couple announcements we need to make that we always do. And we begin as, first of all, I want to call out our sponsor. Jay Williams from Freebird. I got my little koozie now, Adam, that I can show it off with my Freebird water that goes in my special bottle and I add a couple things to it. Adam, thanks for sponsoring Alias Advising. I really appreciate it. And then calling Alicia Varga from Bev Assets, which, Curtin, well, you know Alicia with the sponsor, then Rocks, our friend Ryan, is it Hellman?

Hellman.

Hellermann, uh, really appreciate it. So, uh, with that, uh, let's get going on this, uh, Saturday morning to talk about 8,000 years in the making, Georgian wines. Am I pronouncing it right? First of all, did I call it Georgian wines or Georgian wines?

Georgian. Yeah, Georgian wines.

And these are wines from Rome, Georgia, because that's where I grew up. Thank you, uh, Kurt and Will, for, uh, joining us. I know you were so kind to, uh, send me 4 different wines that we'll go through today. Tell us a little bit about why you got into this business and why Georgian wines?

Well, sort of the why Georgian wines and why we got into this business sort of tie together. We were living in Germany and I, through the US military, through the Marine Corps, spent 6 years working in the country of Georgia. I spent about, when you added up all the trips, about 3 months every year for 6 years and really got a good appreciation for people, the culture. The food and the wine. You know, like I said, living in Germany, we were already getting exposed to some great wine. And I was really, you know, surprised and excited when I got introduced to Georgian wine. It just really blew me away from the very beginning. And that was just some of the basic wines that you would get, you know, at a local grocery store or market or a restaurant. Uh, and then I made friends with, uh, a gentleman, Misha Akhobardia, who owned a wine shop in Georgia and had been in the wine industry, uh, like most people are in Georgia, it seems like. And, uh, he introduced me to a lot of the smaller family wineries and wines that, uh, really focused on producing good quality wine. And a lot of the, the wines that, uh, keep that historical wine culture alive, like they've been doing it for 8,000 years, a lot of the traditional methods. And, uh, over the years, uh, spent more time, uh, at Misha's shop, you know, enjoying wine. The 5-minute visits to pick up a bottle turned into, you know, 2-hour visits with food and wine. And I know one summer trip there at the end of an event, probably after way too much wine, you know, we hatched a plan that, you know, more Americans need to be introduced to Georgian wine. So a few years ago, I decided to start a business and talking with Will, who was, you know, eventually studied, you know, wine at the University of Kentucky. we reached back out to Misha and said, hey, you still want to do this? Uh, and introduced, bring Georgian wine, great Georgian wine into the United States. So that's how we got started. Oh, wow. So it's the birthplace of—

and it's 8,000 years.

And you studied wine at University of Kentucky?

Yeah. So I was actually going to school for nursing originally, but having grown up in Germany, Kirk had no problem adopting the European approach of parenting. And yeah, you can have a little wine with dinner. And so I did have exposure earlier on. Um, But I was going to school for nursing and failed anatomy and realized I'd probably make a pretty bad nurse if I can't pass anatomy.

I was thinking if you studied wine, was it with a fraternity? Were you the social chairman? Because that's how I got chairman.

No, no, no. Uh, University of Kentucky actually has a great, uh, distillation, wine, and brewing program. And now being in Kentucky, most people go that distillation route, but they have a phenomenal, uh, wine kind of sector to it as well. So you can really tailor it to kind of what industry you want to go into. So. Yeah. Studied wine there, got really into it. I became a huge wine nerd and just went—

That's why you picked the big question earlier today. You're like, hey, Kurt, I got it.

Well, he phoned me up and said, hey, you know, I'm thinking about finally pulling the trigger and starting this business. You know, if I did, would you help me out with it? And that's kind of your dad asking you that is you're going to help me out with it. I mean, I just, I fell in love with wine and just all things wine. And yeah, so. Started about 3 years, 3 years now.

So, so, so, uh, so a couple things. So I don't know if you wanna show the video or how we wanna get into it, uh, Curt and Will, but I'd love to, uh, you know, you have a lot of things, uh, going on like Fox News, CNN, uh, CNBC talking about these wines. Do you wanna share the, the little video or, or not? I mean, it's okay, no pressure, but I'd love to have, uh, maybe the one when you're out on the field, uh, talking to people just to get a sense of what these wines are, where they're from, and what it's about.

Yeah. Um, so we got, uh, um, we had a production studio reach out to us and they produce All Access with Andy Garcia, which is a little mini episode focused on, has different, uh, questions or issues or topics that they want to focus on and people who are trying to address that in that particular industry. And we were, uh, honored to be asked to participate in this. And Sam, like you said, uh, they created a commercial for us as well. That commercial aired a couple of weeks ago on Fox, uh, business nationally. And we proved that it was nationally because we had, you know, friends and family across different states and cities watching it. And so, and then, yeah, in '26, they're going to run the episode on public television across, you know, the major public television markets across the country. So, and it'll run all of 2026. So yeah, I can show it if it's— the episode is just, I think, 3 minutes and 45 seconds.

So that's okay.

I can share that.

I'd love to, I'd love to share it. And it'll always be on Drink Up forever now.

Yeah, we didn't, unfortunately we didn't get to meet Andy Garcia. We tried to, you know, he played the president of Georgia in a movie once, so we, you know, tried to work that angle. But, uh, yeah, let me, uh, it's my, uh, it's my sister country.

Yeah. When we talk about importing orange wine from Georgia, a lot of people stop and be like, I would've thought peach wine, but I mean, definitely.

I really, I literally thought that I was on a podcast last year and we were talking about orange wines and I was thinking they were from Rome, Georgia.

Okay.

So I don't know if this—

I don't know if this is gonna—

hmm.

That's a weird—

Yeah, it's a weird— let me, uh, stop sharing and see what—

You have to share your screen and then put the— make sure you click volume on the screen. So stop sharing and then share screen. That's— hey, this is cool. This is how we go live, by the way. So this always happens. So you got to stop sharing, I think. There you go. And then have you, have you, when you choose share, choose screen and make sure you toggle on the volume.

Okay.

Or maybe tab, actually, I think you might want to share tab. It's not screen. So you have to share tab and then make sure you toggle the volume and then go to the tab where the, where it says, uh, share window, share screen.

So choose window and then select the window that's using the video.

That should do it.

And then you should make sure you make sure you hit the volume though. Some people forget to do that. We should have rehearsed this earlier. But that's how we do it.

Get a look into the behind the scenes.

So, so Kurt, I mean, I will, while Kurt's trying to figure that out. Um, where are these ones? Where can you find— well, there we go. We're going.

Can you hear the volume?

No, you have to choose volume. Can you? I can't hear the volume.

Maybe not.

You have to, before you click in, you have, before you, you have to, before you share it, you have to choose volume. Did you choose the volume?

Yeah. Where's the— sorry.

You're good.

Okay. If I go to, uh, here, stop sharing. I'll look and I'll tell you where it's exactly where it's at. And then Adam, why don't you ask him some questions while I'm figuring that out?

Yeah, I gotcha. So I was poking around on the website a second ago and, and, you know, I'm a simple man with simple tastes, right? All of these wines are very affordable, right? Is that, is that a, uh, was that by default? Is that something that you guys kind of had to figure out for the US market? Like, Because price points are always something that gets talked about, right?

Yeah. Really what we wanted to bring in was not just like, you know, telling the history of Georgian wine or sharing it with the US. Because unfortunately, sometimes you like hear about interesting wine grapes or regions or styles, and then you go to the wine shop and you're like, oh, I can't afford this. Or like, I don't know what this is going to be like. I don't want to reach for that $50, $60 bottle I've never experienced. So we wanted to bring accessibility in as well, both from a price standpoint and an education standpoint. So we didn't want people to have to reach for that top shelf. I mean, the quality is top shelf, but price-wise didn't have to break the bank. But then also, unfortunately, we were seeing a lot of stuff come into the market that was, I mean, just very mass-produced, kind of lower quality, lower in price. And so we really wanted to find that kind of middle ground of, hey, you don't have to spend a whole lot, but you're going to get a quality bottle. You're going to learn some and kind of have the opportunity to try a bunch of different styles. I mean, we bring in north of 90 SKUs of Georgian wine and maybe 3 or 4 are going to be above that $45, $50 mark on the shelf at the end of the day.

Sure.

So yeah, we just wanted to bring in wines that kind of anybody could go to a wine shop and pick out, pick out a couple, try a bunch of different styles, different producers.

Yeah.

So keeping a good price point, making it accessible.

What's a good price point?

I, when I'm shopping and I've never tried something before, I like kind of sticking in the $15, mid-$20s kind of range. Because I know kind of the behind the curtain, all the markups that are going up and kind of Well, how did you afford to make this, you know, and sell it this cheap? So I do understand the pricing structure, but then also I feel like that is a, is a good sweet spot of when you do roll the dice of, hey, I've never had this grape. I've never had this region. You don't have to go too high of a price.

And kind of to dig a layer deeper there. I mean, Georgia as a country, and this is testing my civil studies geography skills, is sizable, but it's not massive.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I mean, it's, it's, you know, we're not talking about a country the size of like the UK where it's a, you know, a small island, but it's, it's not California.

Right.

You get my point?

It's roughly the size of West Virginia. Yeah. So put it in perspective.

So how much, you know, when you talk about the grapes and the varieties, I mean, by comparison to somewhere like in Italy, and I don't know, that's why I'm asking the question, but like you talk about, you guys are bringing in over 90 wines, like how much spread or what's the size of the spectrum in terms of like all the different Variations, even in a country that size?

So there's 525 roughly indigenous grape varieties.

Wow.

For wine production. So yeah, there's a lot to choose from. Yeah. We don't bring in damn near anywhere close to that number. There's 2 larger grapes, you know, one red, one white. Quetzeteli is the main grape, period.

Sure.

It's a white grape. I want to say 43% of all wine production is that one grape.

Sure.

So 75%, I think, give or take, of that 525 is different white grape varieties as well.

Sure.

But what we try to bring in is that core Ketsatelli, Sakuravi is the main red grape. But there's so many different styles you can have it in. Off-dry, skin contact, you know, full-bodied. It can drink, you know, like a Pinot Grigio. It can drink like a, you know, robust Burgundian Chardonnay.

Sure.

And Saperavi is, depending on where it's grown, the kind of regional style can be really robust and rich and full-bodied. It can be lighter-bodied and drink like a Pinot. It can, Be made into sparkling wine. It can be made into off-dry wine, which Sam has a bottle we'll talk about, Kinsmorally.

Yeah.

But we do also try to bring in the kind of regional grapes that are most well-known in that region or kind of famous for that region, just like any country, uh, its wine regions has grapes that they're, you know, they produce more of, or they're kind of stylistic in that region. So we do try to bring in a diversity of the grapes and styles. Sure.

So I'm gonna try one more time. Sorry, I'm a little hoarse here. So Kurt, when you click share, there's gonna be, you're gonna choose your screen, but it's gonna be tab, screen, or windows. You wanna make sure you open up the video on a tab, right? So have that open before you hit share. And then when you pull up your share, there's gonna be a little toggle on the right. You just hit turn the volume on.

Okay.

And then you choose your tab.

All right.

And there's a, the pop-in guest always happens. Robert, meet Kurt and, uh, Will.

We're trying to share a video right now.

COGS, cost of goods sold. Kurt and Will is Robert's nickname.

How are you doing, everybody?

Good. How are you?

Good. How are you?

We're just technically challenged today.

It's my fault.

I should have had the video ready to go. So I'm trying to describe what to do.

While you're doing that, I will provide a very worthwhile interstitial to help translate what Kurt and Will are saying.

We're going to talk about ice wines?

No, that's just one of the topics, but it explains why I actually can say this. The know a thing or two about a thing or two is going to prevail right now. First of all, A little bit of translation about the Caucasus Mountains, where Georgia exists. It is one of the gateways of pretty much every civilization adjustment in the history of our civilization. It lies between the Caspian Sea and the eastern shores of the Black Sea. And we have the Greater Caucasus and the Lower Caucasus. And some people might be familiar with the Basque region in northern Spain on its autonomous growth over millennia. These guys are dealing with wine traditions. You heard the 8,000 years, right? They may be underestimating. It could be 10,000 to 15,000 years because what Kirk and Will encounter and have to process all the time are encounters with winemaking techniques that no one even knows about that have been secluded, untouched, And been going on for thousands of years up in those Caucasus Mountains. So I just wanted to offer a little translation. I ran into a particular Georgian character, and every time I imitate his accent, I have to explain, not Atlanta, Georgia, the original George.

And we talked about that earlier because I'm from Rome, Georgia, uh, Robert. Hey, uh, Kurt, have you figured out how to share it or are we just, we're just going to cash in?

I do share screen or share window, and I don't see anything about the— it just asked me if I want to share this window or share this screen, and it doesn't give me a volume option.

Because usually it should pop on your thing. It must be your computer that you're on because it usually—

Hey Sam, part 2 of my little, uh, yeah, uh, little appearance here is something that I never expected. Will and Kirk will probably know more about how cool this is than I do. The reason I know about different wine regions around the world, even though I've never drank wine, I don't like it, and I've never been a wine drinker, but due to some of my late father's escapades, the Niagara region came into my life and was one of the most, probably a big, one of the biggest parts of my late 20s, early And maybe up until I was in my early 40s. And because of the business we did in the Niagara region, I was approached by a longtime friend who I call a wine lifer. His wife teaches enology, which is the fancy word for what Will was referring to earlier. And his sister teaches at Brock University viticulture, which is another fancy word for wine. So what I learned was ice wine. Niagara region is the only location on Earth where you have reliable— see the confusion in Kirk's face? Reliable annual ice wine production.

I think we lost Robert here.

Cogs, am I back?

You're back. You disappeared for a minute. It could be me.

The province of Ontario treats the ice wine production like a resource, like Champagne, France, and Modena, Italy, for their products. The supervision is at 2 in the morning after a minimum of 3 consecutive nights of -6 Celsius for the wine, the frozen grapes to be squeezed. And that juice has to go right into processing immediately. So the reason I know all this is because my buddy called me up and said, hey, I found something in my ice wine production. I said, great. What'd you do? I made a syrup. Great. President's Choice is an extension— the private label Loblaws, and the world's private label programs have all been modeled by the President's Choice program in Canada. He says he got approved for President's Choice Black Label in 8 days. I'm going to leave you with something that I'm sure Will and Kirk can elaborate on. I wasn't in the deal yet. And then he told me pomace, it's a fancy name for wine pulp, is being dehydrated by Dr. DeLuca at Brock University and being used as a treatment for reduction of tumor size.

Interesting.

Polyphenols, all this type of stuff that you guys know more about, Will knows more about than I do. And that's why I got into the food business, Sam. Because of this specific thing. So before you play the video—

Oh, wow.

I still, I still have a bottle of the Cabernet Franc version that is like 6 years old. And Will and Kirk can explain to you why this never goes bad and is actually in one of my cupboards. You can hardly see the label there.

Why does it— why doesn't it go bad?

That's not up to me. That's— Will and Kirk can explain why. That is derived by the evaporation of the fresh icewine juice in a sealed bottle. For some reason, the 3, 4-year-old versions were coveted by connoisseurs around the world. I have 3 12-pack cases of this, sort of like The boxes we keep carrying with us when we move. And of course, with your topic today, I had a feeling that it might be worthwhile to help emphasize what Georgia is all about and Azerbaijan and Armenia and all the other countries that are neighbors or occupy the Caucasus Mountains area. And I just think—

Yeah, I mean, I have it all, I have it all built. Is it a mountainous area? I'm assuming.

Oh yeah.

Sam, this is where Alexander the Great took his troops through the passes, the limited passes in these Caucasus Mountains. I'm a bit of a history buff, as you might have noticed. Yes, where Kirk traveled and the area that he just— Yeah, I did some time in Georgia in the military and I noticed some good food and wine. I just wanted to elaborate. on what the experience really is. I've never been there myself. I've been to a few places in the world that have given me a few visions, like the Alps. And— but I can't even speak to what Kirk and Will know about very much. But with that, let's get to the video. But I just wanted to add a little color, throw a little ice wine byproduct on the table. And I also know that Georgia is one of the leading locations in the world for ice wine production as well. At the higher elevations. So guys, muzzle, muzzle tov, as my tribe says, on being crazy enough to start the business.

Now we love, we love it, Robert. Thank you for coming in and sharing the knowledge here. Really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I don't have the video, so I was trying to describe how to share it, but I did want to put up the country here, right? So people could get a sense of where do your grapes come from? And we can get into the wines maybe. As we talk about the wines, I'll leave the map up, but where, like, which one do you want to start with? I can just choose one and we just go from there. How would it work? Maybe this one here.

So the majority of what you're going to have to kind of show, and it's a great signifier because the majority of all production in Georgia comes from Caheti down in this southeastern kind of quadrant. Closer to Azerbaijan. It's a lot of rolling hills, mountain passes, and you feel like you're at the, the bottom of the valley, cuz there's lots of rivers, river valleys that really help provide nutrients to the soil, but you're still very high elevation. And when you look around though, I mean, you think you see the cloud line and then you realize that's the mountaintops.

Wow.

So you're high elevation, but you're still in these river valleys and you have even higher elevation breathing down cool mountain air on you. So just, I mean, people ask, well, why did it start in Georgia? Why did, why didn't, you know, production viticulture, why does it originate in Georgia? Because in my opinion, it's one of the best places in the world for wine to be grown, for wine grapes to grow. I mean, like I said, nutrient-rich soils, river valleys, lots of water. I mean, lots of sun exposure as well, so the grapes can ripen beautifully. But then again, that mountain air just breathing down so the grapes can retain acidity perfectly as well.

Is it a pretty constant temperature there then?

I mean, it can get very cold. It can get very cold, but it can also, I mean, get very warm as well, which kind of is surprising for, you know, how high up you are. In elevation. But yeah, just, I mean, beautifully balanced wines coming from all throughout Georgia, but really also specifically—

So which one would you like to talk about first and where it's from?

That Saperavi that you were just showing is a great example. So the winery is a winery called Satznakeli, and they're located in Kaheti. I love this label, this beautiful kind of watercolor-esque And, if you look up in the little corner is their wine brand's logo. And, it looks like 3 gentlemen in a little wooden rowboat together, but it's actually a wooden trough, which is what the winery gets its name from, Asatsnakelli, which is the old wooden trough that you would put the grapes in after harvest and foot stomp. So, they're not in a little rowboat, they're actually foot stomping grapes. Saperavi is a Tinturier grape. So it's, it already has this red pulp and juice. So unlike most red grapes, you can't make a white wine from it. If you do a direct press, it's gonna be this beautiful kind of light rose-colored. And Saperavi means to paint or to dye black because of just how dark it is. I mean, just an immediate Kind of like pulling the juice straight from the tank. It looks like squid ink. It's insane, but it is a phenomenal wine that could be made in so many different styles.

Do you have to drink— does this have vintages on them? Are these vintage wines or can you—

Yes.

I believe that one's a 2021, if I remember correctly, what we sent you.

And Saperavi is one of the ones that most people are— if they've heard of a Georgian wine in the US, Saperavi is probably the one that they've heard of.

So, so a vintage wine, if it's 2021, does that mean you have to drink it within a year? Can you lay it down? I mean, someone said earlier that you, these wines can keep for a long time.

Yes. So Georgians typically or historically have made wine to be drunk younger, or they prefer drinking it younger. I mean, it goes back to ancient times when you were just producing wine for your family. I mean, there wasn't really this wine market yet, or, you know, mass-producing wineries. And then even when they were part of the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union controlled wine production and it was all mass-produced. It was mainly staying within Soviet Union proper. But since, you know, Georgia has this rich wine culture, every person was allowed to keep just a small, you know, group of vines in their backyard or their lot and just produce wine for themselves, for their family. So it was just, I mean, you would make wine, drink it, you know, start over the next year. And then once kind of fine wine production kind of had this renaissance in Georgia after the fall of the Soviet Union, or after they left the Soviet Union. Georgia, that's interesting. Then you started seeing some more kind of European approaches of let's lay some bottles down. Let's keep stuff in barrel or in quevrey, which is the clamphora, for longer. Let's have reserve wines. But these wines are very high tannic. A lot of the reds they do, since they're very ripe grapes, they have higher sugar content. So, I mean, the wines can last a long time. But also if you want this really kind of juicy, tannic, but very approachable kind of true Georgian wine, a lot of them are gonna be drunk a little bit younger.

Gotcha. Which one would you like to talk about next? So we just talked about this one. Where would you like me to go? You need me to choose?

Just, yeah.

Well, we can, we can stick with the same grape actually. Um, yeah. And go to the Traditsuli Kinsmurali.

You're, you're trusting Sam can read these labels.

A gentleman. How about, how about a little insight to the— how many, how many wine events are there per weekend? And how many of those are contests where different varietals— is that the right word?

Mm-hmm.

Originating from different parts of the world are— like Australian wine showed up out of nowhere 30, 40 years ago, and it's had a few, a few wins. Have you guys gone into that, I guess, the world of wine contests and received any good feedback? Are there any wins or experiences that—

Well, this one looks like an award-winning one here, uh, Robert, right here. I mean, I was going to save this for New Year's, by the way, because it's very special. It's heavy and—

Well, and that one's done, and Will will go into a lot more detail of it, but, uh, that one's done in qvevri, the traditional clay vessel, which is not really commonly done with the, the qinzmorali or semi-sweet Saperavi wine. And traditsuli in Georgian means Can we step back?

What that is, that's when you bury the wine under the ground, right?

Yeah.

So the quevery, which is the clay vessel, the traditional clay, like teardrop or egg-shaped or teardrop-shaped clay vessel buried underground. And it, I mean, there it could be anywhere from 10 to 15 feet deep with the winery sort of built up around it. But the Sapparabi and Kinsmorally from them are, you know, with the Georgian Wine Awards. They've won several. Trattatuli's won several Georgian Wine Awards. We do have Decanter, IWSC, Mundus Vini gold, silver, bronze awarded wines. This past year, we were very honored through the Wines of Georgia program to have 5 of our wines brought in across a couple of different producers that we work with, brought into the James Beard Awards receptions to great, you know, we got a lot of great feedback, you know, talking with What feel did you get on getting in with those, those 5 SKUs?

Were you— was there 20 room for 20, but 1,000 applicants? Because what Sam and Adam and I live with every day is shelf space crowding and how to get our SKUs into— well, more Sam, more on the alcohol side, Adam on both sides, me on the non-alcohol side. So I'm curious about that because every brand that we try to move is limited by shelf space. Was it similar to that when you described getting those 5 SKUs in that contest? Yeah, it was. Was it tough to get in?

So, I mean, it wasn't even really a contest. We were pouring at the reception for the James Beard Awards and Wines of Georgia, which is a collaboration between a marketing firm in New York, based out of New York, and the National Wine Agency of Georgia, create Wines of Georgia. And they were chosen to have a booth at the reception. And whenever they're pouring at events or trade shows or a lot of contests and competitions and award shows, They will send a blast out or reach out to us personally and say, hey, like, submit some wines to be reviewed and, you know, we'll make a final decision. So we don't know how many wines are being submitted, could be just us, but I mean, most of the time it's going to be a lot of people reaching out and trying to submit their wines to be selected. And so we were very thankful that I think out of 6 wines that were poured, 4 of ours, of the, of a winery we represent, were selected to be poured. So, and those were—

So this was a peer review? Well, this was peers were given the survey of which they liked the most, like people that were involved in that James Beard event, right?

No, I think it was within the Wines of Georgia organization, and then they made the decision to choose what to be poured.

Well, that's an organic entry. That's beautiful.

Yeah, but kind of speaking on what you're talking about with awards, there's a lot of, just like every country has, you know, domestic awards and wine fairs and stuff. And it's great to see our wineries winning awards in those. I mean, there's like, we're talking about Georgia's country the size of West Virginia, but there's so much wine production. And so just everybody, you know, if you want to talk about competing for shelf space, I mean, you go to wine shops there and it's just probably thousands of wineries represented. And so it's hard if you're a small producer to kind of even get on the shelf in your own country, let alone making it across, you know, the sea and being represented in America. But, you know, the wineries you work with do great in these domestic wine fairs, these wine shows, winning awards, but then also something that kind of, I think, separates the wine culture in Georgia parts that's so ancient that it is not viewed as the separate part of life. That's a luxury. That's, you know, there's wine drinkers, there's non-wine drinkers. It's just a part of society. It's, there was, yeah, it's a staple of society and culture and history. Vincent Aster of Villa Sorvino just did a piece in Georgia that was phenomenal. I recommend it to anybody. And, he was talking to, I might butcher his name, but Shota Natrashvili from a very well-known winery, Taliani Valley. And, he described wine as, I mean, just being a social lubricant. I mean, it's not, you can stop and talk about tasting notes or, but I mean, really you just want to have a wine that you can enjoy with conversation and that's so good. You want to appreciate it, but you don't have to separate it from, you know, being together with loved ones or family or something.

So I found these containers is all the, this is, these are the vessels that the wine goes in, right?

Yes. These are the, the quarry.

And they go, how far underground do they go?

So, I mean, it starts, When you walk through a, just like a lot of, you know, European wineries or American wineries that have big barrel halls. When you walk through what would be the barrel hall of a very traditional Georgian winery, it just looks like a bunch of manhole covers because, I mean, they're buried underground, but they don't go too deep. It's just the length of the actual vessel. And it's kind of crazy to see them, the wineries being built because it's not like You just dig a hole and bury another one. You typically have to build the winery around the qvevri since you're having, you know, a couple of these, or if you're larger scale, you'll have more obviously, but being buried underground.

Does that bring flavor to the wine? These are clay vessels. Does it bring, is there different types of clay that you use for different types of flavor? Are these older vessels? Do the wines like leach into the, the clay over time and you put new wine in it or you have to clean it or all of the above?

All the above. So, I mean, think about when you're having wine that's done in amphora from basically anywhere else in the world, what sets it apart is the amphora is gonna be above ground.

Okay.

They're typically, you know, not buried underground. And I mean, Georgians were so ahead of their time, not just inventing wine basically, but they invented, you know, temperature control. They're burying them underground, so it's naturally temperature controlled. They come down the qvevri to a very sharp point. So they don't have to filter the wine because everything is settling to the bottom after being in there for so long. So it's naturally kind of filtering the wine out. But then yes, I mean, you, you're right on the, the head of it. All this, the nutrients and those flavors of the soil that it's buried in, because clay's very porous. So you're getting oxygen coming in, but then you're getting all these nutrients, these flavors. So if you want to talk about tasting, you know, the terroir I mean, you're truly tasting what's in that soil, which I think is beautiful. I mean, it's very authentic for wine.

So, versus picking the grape in the field in California, you pick the grape wherever in Georgian, right? Then, wherever you place it in the soil, you're going to also get more flavor in that wine, right? There you go.

Well, you can't go terroir without a little definition for everyone. Come on.

Look at that. That's what it looks like.

Okay.

So terroir in layman's terms, what we're talking about when we're talking about terroir is tasting the place, tasting where it's from. And so there's a lot of different factors with that. There's climate, there's different weather.

My question is gonna be about altitude. Well, I wanted to ask a follow-up question about altitude and how that has a big effect. Terroir.

And then, I mean, the biggest one though is just the soil type in general. I mean, if you have, you know, flint in your soil, you're gonna have that kind of flintiness in the wine, clay, sand, you know, and also water. If, you know, water can be held or if it's very rocky and, you know, the vines really have to suffer to get down and find water and dig deep. So there's a lot of aspects and factors that play into what terroir is, but just very simply, it's just tasting truly kind of where the grapes are grown, where the wine is coming from, tasting the place.

So there's a couple people coming in, Adam. You wanna make me make some comments from LinkedIn for everybody?

I think a couple showed up. Yeah, so we've got, let me get back to it here. I mean, obviously Coggs is here. We've got Duncan. I think you guys answered, I think, I know you did Jeremy's question on the Kevri in terms of how production was happening. I think that's it as far as the comments, at least from what I'm seeing. I wanted to ask before we had to let you guys go, talk about all these wines. If you would've asked me before we got on the show today, where, you know, winemaking started, I, like most, you know, people in the dark who just consume it and don't really think much about it past that, would've probably said, you know, France, Italy, pick somewhere in, in, you know, more traditional Western Europe. Right. Why is it, I guess, what's the reasoning behind why, you know, maybe Georgian wines aren't as popular if that's where they started?

Well, on to sort of go with—

I thought this might be a history lesson that you could explain us.

So, so go with the one part of history is what a lot of people don't realize is to go back to your, you know, elementary school or middle school mythology classes or anything on mythology, you know, Jason and the Argonauts, the Golden Fleece, all of that from Greek mythology. That's Georgia.

Okay, sure.

So, and actually the way the, the truth behind the Golden Fleece myth is the way Georgia used to be a very gold-rich country and the way they used to mine and, and then sift, uh, you know, for the gold was to use fleeces.

Whoa.

So that would get the flakes of gold, you know, in the fleece. You know, that's the truth behind the Golden Fleece part. But, you know, as you think of it, as they're exploring, as these Greek— Greeks are exploring east across the Black Sea, they're bringing that, that back across. So then that wine that was already being produced in Georgia is coming across the Black Sea back into Greece. And then we know when Rome takes over, then it's Italy, and then You know, it goes beyond, you know, continues to spread, spread throughout. So very, uh, a very rich history. And then like was, was, uh, Cog just mentioning earlier with the Silk Road. I mean, that was the, you know, Tbilisi was a hub. I mean, you see it referenced even in different movies. I remember watching the, the little series about, what was it? Uh, the guy in Genghis Khan's court. There's, uh, multiple times where, uh, well, Marco Polo, the series Marco Polo.

Mm-hmm.

Multiple times where he's down in Tbilisi, goes down to Tbilisi. Uh, cuz it was, it was a crossroad for, crossroads for civilization.

Sure.

Uh, they start, it started expanding when it was the Russian Empire again. And, uh, there was an expansion of wine going out of Georgia and then also, uh, techniques and methods coming into Georgia. Some from, you know, they had a very close connection, uh, with France and what was going on in France. So you started seeing an early arrival of some of the, uh, oak barrels and all of that. But then What really put a, had a major impact on it, like Will mentioned earlier, was the Soviet period. So it really became insular during that period. Stalin was Georgian, so he understand, he understood Georgian wine. But then you see that Soviet mindset of industrialism, of that mass production where they, they stopped becoming, they, they stopped being wineries and became wine factories.

Got it.

And they, that's why you really only see about 26 to 30 grape varietals. Most commonly used wine varieties.

Out of that 525. I mean, right, right, right.

Yeah.

Because they wanted those strong, hardy grapes that could grow anywhere that they could just mass produce.

Sure.

And then get, get throughout the Soviet Union, but there was really only within the Soviet Union proper. And that's why, like in the, you know, former Soviet diasporas around the world, especially here in the US, you know, there's still a, you know, hunger and desire for Georgian wine, but you didn't really see it as much. And then even post-Soviet, it was still, Russia was still the heavy trading partner for Georgian wine. I mean, probably 90% of Georgian wines were going into Russia. But then they had this, they had archaeological discovery in '15 that they published, I think in 2017, that said, yep, dated materials, you know, quavery materials, the clay materials.

Sure.

With fermented grape residue to, to the 6,000 BC. So yeah, You know, yes, Georgia is the birthplace of wine.

Sure.

And then in 2016, Russia put an embargo on Georgian wine. So Georgia made the conscious effort and decision then, okay, we're going to go— Russia's not going to be our major trading partner on wine anymore. They want to put an embargo, we're going to go elsewhere. So Asia has grown, Western Europe grew, and now the US market.

Scandinavia is really growing too. But yeah, I mean, that just—

Without being too punny, I mean, to, and every time we talk to folks like you guys about stuff like this or Coggs, I've got a buddy who lives in Canada and every time I'll say stuff, he'll be like, you Americans and your education system. I'm like, I know, I know it's not pretty. We need to go back and redo history. Right. But without being too punny, literally, you know, the kind of popularity of Georgian wines was, was in the dark for so long because there was a proverbial wall while there was maybe a physical wall behind the Soviet Union. And so really it's only been kind of out in the light of, of, you know, people being allowed to know about it and learn about it for 40 years.

But then even then, uh, just like what Kirk said, I mean, Georgia's been, has had this claim that they were the birthplace of wine for that whole 8,000 years. They never stopped, you know, preaching it. But really from a historical standpoint of things that like everybody could agree on, because there's been a lot of countries with claims or, or so, but having that archaeological study done only 10 years ago though. So we've only had a decade where we could even really say like, hey, you can't argue with the science.

Right.

This is the birthplace of wine. So, I mean, that is another reason. But yeah, I mean, also how many products that were, you know, coming outta the Soviet Union were people, you know, outside the Soviet Union getting to experience or enjoy? I mean, not a whole lot. So there's been a lot of reasons, uh, just over the, that whole 8,000-year-old history, but just even more recent, it's just we haven't had access or the knowledge about it yet.

Yeah.

So, and going back to a couple of things we were talking about earlier, like the price points and things like that and the types of wines that some people have been familiar with, where we were initially running into or coming up against, especially in markets like when we got into the Chicago market and up into New York and places that have Georgian restaurants or Georgian markets or people are Or wine shops that are selling more ethnic products. And it's in those communities that are used to Georgian wine. Some people who have brought in wine before just brought in the mass-produced wine, like Will had mentioned earlier, that you could get super cheap. And I remember talking to one importer and distributor who was bringing in Georgian wine that we were talking with, and that wasn't their main focus area, but that was part of their portfolio. And they were like, yeah, I don't care about quality. If people want Georgian wine, they're just going to buy whatever they can get on the shelf. You know, his, their mindset was, I just want that cheap wine that's gonna sell because somebody who is in that, like a Georgian, a Ukrainian, a Russian, somebody who grew up drinking Georgian wine and they want to have Georgian wine with their meals, you know, if that's the only Georgian wine they can buy, they're gonna buy it no matter what.

Right.

But, you know, and we've, uh, we've been successful in getting shelf space against some, some of those because of, you know, Introducing people to good quality wine that comes from Georgia.

Sure.

Which is the, to be honest with you, is really the majority of the wine because it's all these small family wineries.

Right.

That really focus on quality. And another one of the wines that Sam has, the Gia, that's an example of like during that Soviet period, families were allowed to retain a small parcel of land of their vineyard. For personal family consumption and not for the state. So they were able to keep some of those rare grapes.

Is this the one you're talking about?

No, the, uh, one with the Nino. Oh yeah. Uh, that's from, uh, Gvardzelashvili's Marani. I know that's a mouthful. Giorgi, uh, Gvardzelashvili, an incredible winemaker, but he only does about 4 or 5 wines, all Qvevri, very small production, no more than 2,000 bottles, or I think it's no more than about 2,000 to 3,000 bottles a a vintage per wine. But that Gia is a rare grape. It's one of those that a family was able to salvage and grow for their production. And then you had winemakers over the— now over the last like 10 years saying, we want to bring some of those grapes and those wines and start making wines out of those to bring those back.

So you'll see a lot of Georgian grapes that, you know, other Georgian winemakers or people in the wine industry will look at the bottle and be like, yeah, I've never heard of that grape. Which I feel like is pretty cool. I mean, I know Italy has a lot of indigenous grape varieties as well. I mean, every, you know, there's, I don't know if every Spanish winemaker can name, you know, every grape variety native to Spain, but I mean, there you typically see this kind of what Kirk was saying, this core kind of 30 or so that are really in production. So, it is cool to kind of see, you know, people's eyes and face light up and being like, I've genuinely never heard of this grape, or I've never tasted a wine from this grape. And, Sure.

I think I figured out the video, guys.

Did you?

Should we try?

Yeah.

Let's try it.

Absolutely.

We should wrap up on that. I could keep asking historical questions all day.

I'm gonna try and then see here and see if it pops up here. Can you see the video?

Yes.

Okay, here we go. Can you hear it?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Andy Garcia.

Wine, beer, and spirit producers are working hard to pour their well-honed skills Into our glasses. Join us as we take a look into this spirited industry.

In the heart of the Caucasus, where mountains meet memory, wine is more than a drink; it's a declaration of identity.

I love that bringing this to life.

I mean, this is great.

Occupation and silence. The Georgian people stayed close to their roots, not just just how wine was made, but why it mattered. Yet many Americans are unaware of where wine originated from.

Georgia is the birthplace of wine. There was a discovery in 2015 that dated back to 6,000 BC and showed that Georgia's been producing wine for over 8,000 years. So it is the birthplace of wine and is where wine grew to the rest of the world. One thing that has sort of hindered people from knowing about Georgian wine was during the Soviet period. Period where it was very insular and not a lot got out of Soviet Union proper, and it was more restrictive.

As wine lovers and sommeliers around the world begin to discover the rich and diverse flavors of Georgian wine, this small nation's wine industry is poised to finally get its moment on the global stage.

When we talk about traditional winemaking in Georgia, and a lot of times you hear that 8,000 Something cool about Georgian wine is a lot of the wine that's made in Georgia today is made in that same 8,000-year-old tradition. What we're talking about is the use of what's called qvevris or qvevris. They're large clay amphoras, but not typical of the clay amphoras you see in other countries. They're not above ground. They are large vessels, sometimes 15 feet deep. 15 feet deep. They get buried underground. And it's because not only did Georgians invent winemaking itself and the wine that we know today, but they were way ahead of their time. Because burying it underground allowed for the natural temperature controlling elements that the earth provides. Just like how it's a lot cooler in your basement. Same thing with wine. You don't need cooling jackets around tanks. Just bury it underground. And they come to a sharp point, slowly filters down to the bottom, and you're getting a lot of micro oxidization because clay is very porous. But what you're also bringing in is all those nutrients from the soil. So there's a lot of factors at play of using clay, and it's what sets it apart. And I think Americans also appreciate authenticity, and why not try authentic wine from In spurts. I feel like people get scared of Georgian wine or wines from countries they've never tried, or, you know, can't pronounce the grapes, because they think it's going to taste so foreign, it's going to be so different to them. But a lot of the times, if you just don't look at the label at first, close your eyes and drink the wine, you'll relate in some capacity. And then you look at the grape, you're like, hey, I can't pronounce that, but I like this, and it feels familiar to me. I But like this. it's something new at the end of the day.

That's today.

I'm Andy Garcia. See you next time.

That was awesome. We, we, I, I feel good because we actually covered those topics, which was pretty amazing. We somehow got there. I don't know how we did, but we did.

That's funny. Well, just because I know we're coming up on time and I want to be respectful of everybody's Saturday, uh, Sam, I'll let you ask the million-dollar question, but I'll start with guys. Uh, I know, cause I've been furiously Googling while we've been talking, but where can folks find you? Can they buy the wines online? Is there one you recommend people start with to kind of Will's point in the video of like, don't look at the label, just try the grapes. It'll resonate with you. Thoughts on that question. And then we'll let Sam wrap us up.

Yeah.

Well, I'll let you talk about, you know, your suggestions on wines. So we're, you know, being based out of Indiana and Kentucky, if you go on our website, like Adam has, then there is a, you know, where to buy and you can do a search by zip code. We, you know, We distribute to multiple locations within Indiana and Kentucky, primarily the Indianapolis and Bloomington markets in Indiana and Louisville and Lexington and Bowling Green in Kentucky. And, and then through distribution partners, we're also in New York, Florida, Illinois, Colorado, and just, just starting up potentially in California. And there are a couple of states, Kentucky and Florida and DC, that we can do direct-to-consumer on. So you can go and order So if you live in those states, you can order direct online.

And we'll export.

I mean, it's hard. It's like choosing, you know, your favorite kid or something. There's so much that just, I would recommend just trying. I mean, Qetsvitali, the main white grape, is probably a really good place to start. I mean, we have a good selection of those and I feel like they can be very, very approachable, but very authentic to traditional Georgian wine. Really, I mean, just, there's, you just gotta try it all. I mean, it's hard to, to just pick one cuz there's so many different styles. It's kind of saying, you know, where should you start for Italian wine? I mean, depends on your taste, depends on kind of how deep into it you really want to go, but just, just try it is, is all I could say. I mean, don't be scared. Don't kind of go in with, you know, preconceived ideas, or if you have had some of the wines or grapes before, You know, explore Georgian wine because there's 525 grapes to explore.

And I believe it does mention, you know, like in the descriptions of the wines, what, which ones are Qvevri wines. You know, I would, I would try a Qvevri wine, but you know, if you want history in a glass, one of those Qvevri wines, whether it, and especially one of the white ones or amber ones.

So this, this is the, this, that's a Qvevri wine.

Uh, I believe that's a Qvevri wine. All of the wines we sent you, I believe Were Quevrey wines.

Yep.

And then the one we didn't show, here's the one right here, Kurt.

Yeah.

So all of the ones we sent you are Quevrey, so you have no choice but to enjoy some Quevrey.

All right.

Adam's on his way. He's, he's, he's, he's driving down today.

Ray, I'm like, I feel like you guys should host a, host a dinner with it. Do a, do a little teaching, but I know Cogs is gonna ask you about exports. So go ahead, Cogs.

No, no, I didn't wanna do that because we have 1, 1 minute left or we're in 5-minute overtime.

Wait, we can go a little over here. You can ask.

Go ahead.

I just wanted to leave you with one little thing. If you ever get a crazy Canadian inquiry that just needs a case, a bottle, do not say no because Sam knows a guy who you can get it to Michigan and get it into anyone's hands in Canada. Sam does know a guy.

Okay.

Yeah, 100%. And then now we have to ask the question, if we can just stay a few more minutes, as we always ask everybody who joins us this question. It's really important. So I can repeat it too. Uh, but what is the difference between success and failure?

For us in this, for us with what we're doing in, in this industry, success is seeing people excited and, um, to have somebody come back and trying the wines and, and getting the wines in, into places that aren't necessarily the, where, where I think a lot of people in the Georgian wine industry go wrong in the US is they focus specifically on the ethnic markets, but these wines are phenomenal. And as we've branched out of the ethnic markets. You know, we don't, we're not Georgian. So we don't have that type of connection. Being able to spread it outside of that ethnic market. When we do, people are excited. We've done a Georgian wine dinner at a Persian restaurant in Chicago. We're doing one at a Mediterranean restaurant in January in Chicago. We've done it at, you know, sort of the nouveau style restaurants here in James Beard Award-nominated restaurants here in Indianapolis and Kentucky. So there is a desire for it. And what I like to say is I, what we're trying to do is change it to where it's not that wines from the birthplace of wine should not be a niche market. It should be more prominent than it is.

I know. I mean, it's 8,000 years in the making. It's the birthplace of wine. You think that's the wine you go with? Because it's Authentic. It's real wine.

Yeah.

And honestly, if, I mean, we are doing tastings, we sell to small wine shops, independent wine shops, restaurants, and small town Indiana and Kentucky. And if, you know, people in small town Indiana, Kentucky are enjoying Georgian wine, I don't care about large markets. I don't care about, you know, volumes of sales. I mean, I do, but you know what I mean? At the end of the day, if, uh, if people in these quote-unquote small, uh, or even non-existent— a lot of people view it as, uh, wine markets— are enjoying Georgian wine and have this knowledge of Georgian wine now because of us, I mean, at the end of the day, I think that's, that's success for us.

Hey, 10 accounts— I posted about this other day— 10 accounts that reorder your product and appreciate your product are better than 300 that only buy it once and never come back. So let's, let's just wrap up here. So thank you, Will. Thank you, Curt. Thank you, Cogs and Adam for joining us today. Maybe just go around real quick with everybody just to sum up what you heard. We'll start with Robert, then I'll go to Adam and then Curt and Will, you can close it down.

First of all, I've tried 45 times. It's Cogs off the name. It's not cogs in a wheel, but I did get a present over the holidays.

I'm from Georgia, man. You're going to have to accept it.

I'm still here for you. I might, we might change to this moniker. Uh, for the future.

Yes.

Um, thanks again. As many know, this podcast role that happens every week with a few very nice characters like these 2 is one of the best ways to integrate with, with great people on LinkedIn. Don't be fooled by that 4, 5, 7, 10 number on people that are watching. Sam does an incredible job with Adam on getting some great edits of every episode that, like he said, it'll be on forever. And I just want to say thanks to you 2, Adam and Sam. Great to meet you guys, Kirk and Will.

Great meeting you.

And as you noticed, I've got a little bit of experience through your laneways and also love the, you know, bringing 1,000-year-old history. There's not too many categories where we can talk about that. So thank you very much and have a great New Year's week, everybody.

See ya.

Yeah, you too.

Cogues. Thanks, man. Did I get it right? Cogues?

Yes, you did.

Who's next, Sam? Beautiful. I just always appreciate a history lesson. I mean, you touched on it and I, uh, I'll have to figure out next time I'm in Indy, if, if, uh, the stars align and I can come to one of those dinners, 'cause I've done, you know, the, the distillery and the beer versions of those things where, you know, you sit down, you have a meal, you learn something. Right. And I just, I love that shit. It's super fun. So yeah, thanks for the history lesson. Pleasure to meet you guys. Thanks for telling us your story. I'm gonna go shopping. I think the website said you'll also ship to Minnesota, so I'm gonna go shopping here when we're done.

And I got some bottles. You can come down and join me. We can meet at Earl Giles or somewhere and just have some pizza and some Georgian wine.

Deal.

Be good.

Kurt and Will, how would you— anything that we left out that you want to relay to everybody here today that we missed or any closing thoughts?

No, guys, thanks for having us on. This was a blast. As you can tell, Will and I love talking about wine, Georgian wine specifically, but we'll talk about any wine. And we are trying to branch beyond just that. We distribute other countries as well here, working with some other importers.

And we're all—

we distribute some Ukrainian and Indian wines. So still staying sort of out of the normal markets or normal regions, but we are looking at expanding to import from some other countries this year in '26 as well. So So, growing that portfolio, Will does a great job of building our portfolio. He builds all of that. So, all of the wines in our portfolio, he's built. So, he does a wonderful job of that. And, we are excited in January or 26th like we said with the all-access. And, in January, we're doing a couple of premier events in Indiana, one up in Indianapolis where we're also bringing in a friend of ours, Lisa Granick, who's written multiple books on Georgian wine. And, um, doing a little movie premiere, Q&A roundtable, and, uh, masterclass, and then a portfolio tasting. So it's open to consumers and to trade.

Hold on, before we leave, you guys are doing a movie about this?

Well, no. So we're, we're airing what you just saw.

Oh, okay.

Of the All Access episode.

I mean, that's Andy Garcia, man. Come on.

I mean, right. I guess it's basically a movie.

So, uh, maybe one day we will, right? Maybe we'll have our own little Georgian wine documentary Uh, but no, again, guys, thanks again for having us. This is great. And, uh, we're looking forward to an exciting '26. Will, is there anything else you wanna—

No, just thanks for having us. And anybody can always email info@parsonsfineimports.com. We are a small company, so we do have to weed through a lot of emails, but I mean, we're always happy to just talk Georgian wine, answer any questions, or even if we're not in a market or service a market that you're in, we love just pointing people in the right direction or helping. in any ways that we can. So just go out, try some Georgian wine.

Yeah. And y'all be at WSWA in February in Las Vegas, I believe, right? Correct.

Yep. Now we'll have a table, um, and, and Sam will share that to you. Uh, we'll have a table exhibiting, so we'll have some of our portfolio there.

Yeah. So please, if you're headed to Vegas, I think it was February 3rd through the 5th. I think the floor's open the 2nd and the 4th. Uh, they'll be, be there. So please look up Kurt and Will. I'll certainly be there looking for some more wine because Adam's going to come take this away from me and drink it all for his— for to get him through the weekend.

I've got some Amerius Spirits I need to share with you. We got to do a bottle swap.

100%. So thank you everybody for joining us. Really appreciate it. For me, you know, it's wonderful to talk about this category, especially Georgian wine. I think wine's having this moment and I believe a category like this could actually help wine. And we tell that story to help it get on a path to growth. It's been, it's been a struggle, but you know, there's wines like this that are just like these diamonds in the rough. You know, go out there and find these, these wines and go to Parsons Fine Imports. We put on the screen a couple times and we stream, we'll stream on Apple Podcasts, YouTube. We stream on, what else? LinkedIn Live and so on and so forth. So you'll be able to see you forever. And again, thank you everybody for joining us and have a wonderful weekend. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Happy New Year, everyone.

Happy New Year.

Bye, guys.

You too.