How a Peruvian Drink Is Changing the Beverage Market

Hello everybody. We're 2 days in a row at Drink Up, which is pretty amazing, right, Adam? 2 days. So we have a, it seems like it's drinks week. Uh, we have a special guest, uh, Marcel Dios. Is that the right, uh, pronunciation?

That is the right pronunciation. Yeah.

Yes. With the founder of, uh, I'll make sure I get this right. Kuli?

Kuli. Kuli Purple Up. We actually went through a, a, a rename recently, but yeah, Kuli is, uh, is, is the right, uh, way to say it.

That's awesome. Well, we'll get into that momentarily, but before we get started, we just want to call out some of our sponsors, if that's okay, Marcel. Yeah. So first of all, um, Adam's company, uh, Alias Advising. Adam actually, um, advises companies. If you think about when you need to get a product in the can, formulation, uh, the whole bit, Adam is the person to go talk to everything operations and, uh, amazing. An expert in that space. He'll geek out with you about your journey, about how you did this and soup to nuts, because he's talked to a lot of great brands over the years, a great background. So that's Adam's company. And then Bev Assets, Alicia Vargo, thanks for the sponsorship of Bev Assets. At Bev Assets, we actually help people with their commercial strategy and route to market and go-to-market plans. A lot of times we'll help them find distribution and customers at the same time in parallel and act as fractional sales leads for a handful of companies as we move forward. And then our friend Ryan at, uh, Rocks Advising, Hallerman. Uh, they have a, a group of companies which Adam and I are part of, uh, that actually provide resources to companies from everything from logistics to go-to-market. And, uh, they really help really early-stage companies, um, you know, get started to companies that are already established in the marketplace. And then Can't forget this, our, uh, our beverage sponsor, Jay Williams. Jay, I'm outta water, man. I'm gonna say it again, but Freebird, I loved it so much. I, I burned through my 2 cases. But Freebird is a, uh, a water brand, uh, owned by Jay Williams that has really taken off. They just got into Walmart recently. But if you can find them, you can find them online. They're big in the Southeast, big in, uh, got into Florida just recently, but doing well. So thank you, Jay, as always for Supporting us. So to the business of you, the business of drinks, Marcel, I don't even know how we found each other, to be quite frank. Uh, we've been running Drink Up for about 4 years, Adam and I, and, uh, we'd love to have founders like you on. So thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join us. We really do appreciate that.

No, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for this. I mean, the fact that people are so excited about beverage and And it's such an interesting space to be in. So thank you for giving me the opportunity for sure.

1,000%. So it's, uh, where are you located?

Los Angeles.

So it's early there. You had to get up early to join Adam and I.

I've got a 3-and-a-half-year-old, so early is, uh, no longer a time zone. It's more of like a need. Yeah. But I, I early it is.

Yeah.

Here for sure.

That's great. So we were talking about your, you know, you and I met a couple weeks ago and we were talking about your brand here and this, uh, Cool. Have I got it right there?

Yeah.

Right there. That's it.

So is that, is that, is that Cooley there, by the way? Is that, is that Cooley?

That is Cooley. Yeah.

The mascot.

Our, our little mascot. Yeah. Yeah.

So tell us a little bit about why the heck did you grow up in the beverage business or you just wake up one day and go, hey man, I want to just come out with a beverage and, uh, and it's a family recipe. Like, tell us the journey a little bit.

Definitely don't come from the beverage space. I, um, I come from the entertainment side. I was a music composer for many years, and then I pivoted to being a screenwriter and developing stories. So it kind of— the world of CPG sort of just found me, I want to say, because it was during the strikes of the WGA. I had a few things happening that inevitably fell apart. And then one of my neighbors was starting a CPG company. And I thought, oh my God, well, I've got my son. I had just found out we were pregnant. And I thought, oh my God, Man, what an awful time to have things sort of dismantling my world. And I kind of just leaned into the fear of it all, if you will, just the not knowing what was going to happen to my stability. And then I met this— my neighbor was starting the CPG brand, and that's how I learned all about CPG, CPG, CPG. And I initially was going to invest in her company. And I kind of did a lot of reconnaissance, if you will, about CPG, because I often, when I get involved into something that I don't know, I take my time. I'd like to fall a few times just to learn lessons along the way. And I went to New York and met her marketing team and then came back. And I was like, man, this sounds really exciting. And I grew up—

Yeah.

To the point of Kool-Aid, I had grown up with this Peruvian drink my entire life. And I love beverage just as much as you guys. I mean, as a fan of just going to this grocery store and seeing this industry sort of take an immense jump as far as quantity of options to pick from at the beverage, at the—

Yeah. How many, how many aisles in the store, Adam, of beverages on average? I think he must be frozen. Now there's, uh, 4 aisles of beverages to find at any time.

So you went in and you said, man, I, uh, probably 3 or 4.

I wanna get into this business.

Yeah. Uh, yeah. So it, it, it, it was, um, it was sort of an awakening for me to be all of a sudden, uh, in, in the middle of this conversation. And, and as much of a fan as I am about other beverages, which, you know, uh, I can get into the list of a few, but I, I didn't see anything that resembled chicha morada. And chicha morada is the name of the Peruvian drink. Um, I grew up—

Did chicha morada—

Chicha morada. Yeah, yeah. So chicha translates to, loosely, it's like a brew or an elixir is what I like to call it. And then morada is purple in Spanish. Got it.

Um, is that the purple, what's it called? Purple corn?

Purple corn, correct. And it's made with this amazing commodity that nobody knows about yet, or they're starting to pick up speed on the knowledge.

You told me China's getting into it now.

Correct, correct. China, yeah. I mean, the economics of all of this is really exciting for us. And I didn't know, obviously, when I made this decision to do this, I didn't really know these details. I learned them as once I made that decision to do it, I'm like, okay, well, what am I, what am I looking at?

You just dove in. You didn't know the details of the purple corn viability.

No, no.

You just said, I want to make a really cool Peruvian drink and yeah.

And I want to package it. I want to package it in a neat, unique way and appealing. And, and, you know, it's all about brand, right? It's like you have, I read an article that In the '90s, consumers, you had about 5 seconds to grab their attention. But now that real estate and time has dropped to 2 to 3 seconds. So it was really important for us in, in the inception of all of this to make a brand that stood out. And I think we've done that. I mean, you know, there's always room for improvement, obviously, but that is the short story of it is my mom and my grandmother had a very different way of making Chicha Morada. And I kind of took their recipe and ran with it.

Oh, that's amazing. And how long have you been in existence?

Well, you mean like in can, in product and all that fun stuff?

Yeah.

Since September of last year.

So you're one year in.

Almost.

Where are you, where are you selling at? Are you selling just in Los Angeles?

Yeah, we, well, we just, for now we're, you know, I believe in Dominating from small to big. So we're hitting up all of the, all of the main smaller retailers around even where I live. And, uh, we've onboarded with Lassen's here in Los Angeles. Uh, Bristol Farms is gonna happen in June. And I hear—

You got into Bristol Farms? Congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you. It's been, it's a long waiting game with them. They, they have a, They have something called an innovative end cap, and that's where new drinks come in. And they just kind of give you an end cap to, to see where, you know, where that product stands.

How long is that end cap on for? 60 days, 90 days?

I think it's 90 days.

90 days. And then if you get movement, then you go to the next step.

Yeah. Yeah.

So let me just stick on that for a minute and we'll go back to some things, but because this is really important, I know there's people like Sprouts does the same thing, right, Adam? I think I think there's a few people that have like these innovation programs that give brands an opportunity. Maybe, I know there's a few that do it. Um, what's your plan in terms of, so you're going into Bristol Farms, how are you gonna ensure velocity and, uh, reorders?

Demos. Put as, as many, as many, uh, liquid on lips as possible.

Got it.

Really just, we believe in our product. We, I think, you know, Like, again, based on a very unique recipe and people like it. I mean, even in the smaller retailers here that I've demoed a lot, probably demoed, I don't know, at this point, maybe 1,000.

There you go.

Maybe 1,000 people altogether so far.

Wow. It's really purple, by the way.

It is very purple. Yeah. Yeah. Purple corn is naturally Very purple. That's what makes it so brilliant is that in that purpleness is where all the antioxidants live.

And so this is the drink of Minnesota Vikings, man. Right. There you go. So demos, demos, you're going to demo the heck out of it. So every weekend you're going to be in those stores. How many Bristol Farms are there?

We're going to be in 13 doors with Bristol Farms.

That is amazing, by the way. 13 stores. So are you gonna be doing 13 demos every week?

That's the plan.

Yeah.

We've got a demo team that we've hired and, you know, we've, uh, put some money into marketing materials and demo material, you know? Um, but yeah, that's, that's the trick. That's the name of the game.

And, and— That's your golden egg, man. That's your golden goose. I mean, to the opportunity, because if you can prove velocity and demand and they're giving you the opportunity, those 13 stores become 30 stores and 30 stores become 60.

So I love that.

you said that. Adam, I'm hogging the whole conversation. I know you're back. Any deep thoughts here as we go deep on this? Yeah.

Can you guys hear me okay?

Yeah, I can hear you now.

Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah, I mean, I guess, uh, so Marcel, you said you, you started it, was it September of last year? So that's 8 months or so. So I guess in terms of, you know, obviously we're not looking for the secret sauce or the nitty-gritty details, but just in terms of, you know, walking us through the timeline of, you know, how long did getting the formulas done take? How long did finding a production facility take? Getting to production, like, what were some of the hurdles you came up to or, you know, either are still dealing with or that you overcame along the way, just from like an ops perspective?

Yeah, I mean, God, I mean, daily hurdles, right? What I've learned, I used to think I used to work in the toughest industry, film, but CPG takes it all the way up. Another nudge there. Um, I mean, look, some of the, some of the things that I dealt with were, um, at the time, you know, even from learning that the co-packers don't really care about the little guys, they, they make room for us, but ultimately we get shoved down to the, you know, down the list to try and meet production, right? Like co-packers, some co-packers have been very, very willing to take us on. Other co-packers are like, they're not interested unless we're producing a certain type of volume. The co-packer that we ultimately went with have been treating us really great. They're busy. They're here in LA. But I also, one of, one of the main things I want to share with your community is that it's the community that really has stepped up. I mean, the guys from Leisure Hydration, Alex and Steven, they've both been extremely helpful along the way, even to finding our formulation, our formulator. It was a connection that I'll be very grateful for throughout the lifetime of Cooley because our formulator knows what they're doing and, and they're also very sweet and understanding of this process. They kind of held my hand throughout it and advised on things that probably I didn't know at the time about the supply chain. So, you know, and also I think some of the hurdles on a daily basis for a small startup CPG company is the MOQs, right? When you have a limited amount of budget and you want to produce more of your product or Then you, you, you kind of—

what are MOQs?

Minimum quantity, order quantities.

Minimum order quantities. And you have like minimums for like cans, minimums for like lids, minimums for everything?

Everything, everything has an MOQ and it has a different price. So the less you buy, the more expensive it is.

So your cost of goods go up.

Cost of goods go up. Our COGS go way up. And obviously our goal is to bring it down once we start scaling. Right. And, but you know, it's a startup. So we're gonna burn through, we're burning cash right now. Um, you know, the first few pallets that we produce.

Well, let's go back to this burning cash thing. So, and I, I mean, obviously I wanna be respectful of your P&L and where you're at. You know, what do you think, how much runway do you think you need to actually build your brand? Like, I'm talking like, like, like years-wise, not the actual cash amount. But in order to be successful, from your experience from launching in September, so let's just call it you're almost a year in, right?

Mm-hmm.

With your business, how much runway do you think you need to actually make that, that leap?

Well, I mean, talking to someone that's learning as he's, as we go as a company.

Yeah.

But typically about 2 to 3 years, depending on how much bootstrap cash you have available. Obviously that, that's a very important part of the equation. And to have a proven concept in hand, I mean, we're beyond that now. We're beyond the proven concept now. We're kind of, we're at the Catch-22 canyon as they call it.

What's the Catch-22 canyon?

Well, it's this thing that goes from here and then it starts to come back up as you're scaling. And this is the area where you need another $300,000 to $500,000 to prove that you can actually scale moderately. And, and then eventually you—

You got the first infusion of cash.

Yeah.

True demand. You got some proof of concept going. You're in some stores, obviously, and accounts. And now you're like, okay, I'm gonna go into Bristol Farms.

Right.

Yeah. I need, I need operation. I need to produce this stuff in order to fill the demand of 13 stores. I'm sure you're feeling the, the crunch of that, right? I'm assuming, cuz you gotta get, I don't know how many cases they're gonna order for each store, but you have what, 3 flavors?

3 flavors. Yeah.

Yeah. So like, so they did a case of each. I mean, you gotta make sure you can meet that demand. And if you're in there for 90 days and you're creating velocity, that adds up really quick.

Very quick. Yes, I am. We're definitely feeling the pressure. And we just got her— we heard— I'm not gonna say which retailer yet because I don't want to get too excited, but we heard that we've been placed on a very considerable list that might approve our drink. And if that happens, then yeah, we're gonna be under a lot of pressure. But that's what we signed up for. This is what I'm here for.

Yeah. You know, sometimes with the— and I don't— you know, you don't have to say yes to everything.

Yeah, correct.

So think about that. I've been with brands that they said yes to everything. They were in 38 states, but the problem is they couldn't fill the order. So just make sure that if you go into distribution somewhere, make sure your fulfillment rate's over 95%. I don't know if you know those numbers, Adam, but I think it's around 95% fulfillment rate is expected from, uh, many of the, the retailers. Because if you can't, I mean, it's so competitive and I'm sure you know that. So congratulations on that. Uh, you know, today is the universe. The moon is lined up for the first time in 20 years. Alicia's gonna appreciate this. I'm probably butchering this, but just ask for that, you know, and it'll happen for you, uh, by the way. So, all right, so let's, uh, let's, let's pivot a bit and Los Angeles, and then Adam's gonna have a lot more operational questions or anything that comes to his mind. But I'm curious, how many accounts are you in right now?

Well, accounts are probably 1, 2, 3, 6.

6 accounts. But these, this is really important. I want people to understand these are 6 accounts that are ordering from you continuously. So you've had, you have demand, you have, you have, they're literally, they're like behind your product, you're ordering it. Or now with those 6 accounts that you have, are you working those accounts? Are you doing like the tastings? So like you're starting to build demand and prove the concept with those accounts.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm, I'm personally doing a lot of the outreach, a lot of the merchandising, just because they happen to be within earshot from where I live. So I can go merchandise, talk to the staff, find out what kind of movement, you know, kind of do my own little investigation. And ongoing demos any, any way that I can. I mean, just 2, 3 weeks ago, I was standing across the street from one of our retailers with a cooler ice-packed with Kuli. And there was a, uh, there was a farmer's market happening about a quarter of a mile down the way, which, so there's a lot of foot traffic coming to and from the farmer's market. And I just hand them out, you know, just hand out Kuli. I mean, and just tell them, hey, if you like it, we're right across the street right there.

That's brilliant, man. I literally, uh, I was doing some research on Boston Beer Company.

Uh-huh.

How many accounts do you think, uh, uh, um, Jim, the founder, Cook, how many accounts do you think he was in this first year in Boston?

I mean, 20?

Great guess. 30 accounts.

Oh, really?

And he did exactly what you are doing. He would put the beer in his trunk of his car. He'd go account by account and talk to people. And I don't think that's changed. So what you describe, Is exactly what you need to be doing. Are you getting into some farmers markets by chance? I talked to a lot of, we talked to a lot of brands that go into farmers markets as well.

We're not, we, we, I don't think we would fit that model of farmers markets. Um, they, I mean, it's, it's here in LA, it's very expensive.

Okay.

And it's also a huge, I'm, I'm, I'm very respectful of, of our time. Right. So, yeah. Anytime that we have to open up another door or open another conversation with another retailer or another distributor is a little bit more important to us than coming out on a Sunday, setting up a tent, setting up, you know, for us, at least in our format, we, we're not, we're not there. But I've seen a lot of brands that have come from the farmer's market platform format and then into retail. That's worked great for them.

Adam, any questions, bud?

Yeah, I think, you know, corn's obviously a produce, right? So for as much as you're comfortable sharing, because as the ops guy, to Sam's point, right, I'm not a chemist, I'm not a production facility, but I do help people plan productions. I help them make their COGS more efficient. I help them understand formulation and formula efficiencies. I got a lot of friends who are formulators and work in the space. Like, Are you guys like, are you buying, you know, just bags of raw corn and starting there? Or like, if, again, I, I know a little bit of that's maybe a peek behind the curtain question, but I'm just curious. I've been poking around the website trying to get a sense of it. Like how raw are you starting with when it turns in terms of production?

It's a great question. Yo, I mean, I, I'm, I'm comfortable sharing some of our secrets, but no, we, we, we do buy from a Peruvian farm that sources the purple corn.

Mm-hmm.

And the supplier has inked an exclusivity with us. As far as I know, this format and to supply the type of chain that I would need as we grow, this was, I think, the smartest move that I probably, I probably, you know, I've made a lot of mistakes, but it's probably this, if any mistakes I've made along the way in the growth of my company. This is probably the most important thing I've done is secure exclusivity from a retailer, from a supplier that has this type of relationships. Yeah. That, so it is, it is a very organic corn. I mean, it's not organically certified because Peru doesn't really get into the certification game as much as— yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I, I was about to conversation. Sure.

Sure. Yeah. I was having this conversation. I think it was Neil yesterday. We were talking about him or somebody else talking about organic certification. Like, hey, just the cost to put that logo on is a few thousand dollars. Right. And then you've got the audit certs and the additional increased raw material costs. And I mean, the list goes on and the amount of green— I'm not saying organic's bad. I'm not saying it's good, but the amount of greenwashing happening in the industry and food in general is insane. So no, I mean, I applaud you there, but yeah, I think the question was, and you answered it beautifully, is around like, Even for things as simple as natural colors, right? Like because of the switch, and I'm not saying your product has that, but just in general, right? Just in terms of natural colors as an additive, that industry's on fire right now because everybody's transitioning from artificial colors. And so the crop yields to be used to make natural colors are under more stress than they were before. And so there's this whole supply chain thing. And so I think to your point on having an exclusivity agreement, knowing that this is the base of my product and I've gotta have access to it is incredibly intelligent. As a first step, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah. Yeah.

Eventually we'll buy a farm down in Peru.

Right.

Um, and really, I mean, it's just sort of definitely crossed our minds, uh, to, to, to buy a farm and, and, and have control of the very thing that's going to produce the most authentic version of our drink in a can besides Grandmother's kitchen.

So having a, so having a home place, obviously you talked about the story behind it. You just mentioned grandmother just now, right? But what's interesting to me is, you know, the beverage category is a crowded category. You know, when, uh, you know, when you walk, when you go into a store, there's literally 5 to 6 aisles of beverages. They're all over the place. So you, it's like this ocean of beverages. So what are you doing to stand out amongst that ocean of beverages?

I mean, look, sometimes it's as, it's as easy as, um, even Striking up a conversation with some of the store managers. I'm a very personable person, you know, even before being a CPG owner. I love talking to people and getting to know them if I can, if I have the time and bandwidth. You know, I've received the same from people. Sometimes they'll, you know, they inspire you, right? And so that it could just be as easy as striking up those relationships and And having them cheer for you. Um, and, and ultimately, oh, that's, that's Marcel's product on the shelf. Let me, we don't do merchandising, but we'll do it for him. You know, who knows, right? It, it could be as simple as that.

And so it's a people, it's a people business.

It is a people business. So if, if you, if you're—

AI's not giving a phone call to the store to say, hey, reorder me. You're actually physically going in there and actually talking to a human being to build the brand.

Yeah. And, oh, I'll bring them a case, you know, and say, hey guys, here's a case for you. You know, I mean, it has to get done. It has to get done because people are people. And we're all very sensible and we're all triggered, whether positively or negatively. But that's what's been most helpful for me. I've gotten to this point because of that merit of being able to— Just be a human being. A good, a good human being.

Well, you're getting ready to triple your business. Congratulations on that. So from an operations standpoint, what are you, what kind of obstacles are you facing right now in order to get there? And what are you doing to overcome those obstacles?

Thank you for saying that, by the way, Sam. I mean, I have a lot of pressure, but yes, I do. I do see where we're headed. And some of the obstacles, obviously right now we are definitely sitting in that catch-22 canyon where we're trying to raise half a million dollars so that we can produce enough of our, of our product so, so that it meets the demand that we know is coming. And of course, without working capital, things can slow down, momentum dies, people lose interest like that, and they just move on. And I'm talking even down to the buyers. They might be like, oh yeah, Purple Corn, excited. We haven't heard from Marcel and company.

Are they—

hello? Are you there? And okay, well, let's, let's go to protein water, you know? So that, that might be a thing that is, is concerning for us right now.

The window could be really short at your point. Like you've got approval, but if you can't meet the demand, they're moving on.

Very short. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, people, people move on.

Yeah.

Very quickly. So, so those are probably one of the biggest hurdles that we're trying to, and we're in a good position. We have a lot of conversations coming up with potential investors. So we're in that seed round currently and, you know, raising as much as we can so that we can produce a significant batch that will incentivize the VC investor down the line to say, oh, Maybe your COGS could have been a little less, but you, you moved units. And so sure, we'll give you—

Your product, by the way, if I'm an investor, there's nothing, uh, and Adam, correct me too, there's nothing like this on the market. Is there, is there another, is there another purple corn product available in the market today?

Not in the way that we're doing it. There are glass versions of Chicha Morada. That, I mean, from a logistical point of view, as I'm sure you can imagine, and it's Peruvian owned. And I mean, this is a huge company that's been importing, exporting goods between the US and Peru for many years. This is how us Peruvians find, you know, our, our sort of like our go-tos as far as culinary experiences.

But yeah, best food on planet Earth. You and I talked about it, by the way.

We, we, we're proud of it. We're proud of it. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of fusion happening in Peru.

You like potatoes too, by the way, right? Potatoes seems to be a thing.

Well, a lot of people don't know this, and I think that's the other interesting point about Peru. I'm proud you brought that up, but potatoes are a very Peruvian crop. I mean, it is a crop that has been taken out of Peru. I mean, they, it's the only place on earth that it used to be that, that would grow potatoes. So potatoes.

Oh, wow.

Come from that part of the world. Yeah. There's a chef in France, I forget his name, a popular chef that has a plaque and says, um, and thank you for the Incas for their contribution of the potato. There's, there's like thousands different types of potatoes in Peru alone. Um, amazing. Amazing. And the quinoa, quinoa is the same thing. You know, it's a very Peruvian grain that's now been internationalized. But yeah, I mean, we're— We're excited about where we're headed and we're just trying to, like any little startup.

There's not another art, like a functional drink like this on the market right now. There's not.

Here's what I'll say. I mean, obviously there is another company, but you know, but not like your company, not like this.

This is made by a Peruvian from, you know, you have your farm, you know, farm table type of drink right here. Right.

Yeah, we're, we're the only ones that have, at least that I know of, that has that type of access to, to a, you know, there are ways of getting purple corn into your, into a, you know, into a plant.

Yeah.

But as far as I know, we're the only ones that have it in a healthy supply chain. I almost went with a supply chain that was really convoluted. It was from a supplier in Poland. And they would get it from Peru. And so it was this Bermuda Triangle and I thought, no, I'd rather—

I hope you're not going through the Strait of Hormuz.

Right, right.

Fuck, you can't get your purple corn.

You went the wrong way. I'd rather pay a little premium and have it be a straight shot. And literally it's a straight shot.

That's right.

It's literally a right angle.

Have tariffs affected your business at all? With, uh, your supply tariffs? Have tariffs affected you?

I haven't. I mean, things are going up. Yes. Even the purple corn recently went up, but not significantly.

Okay.

Not, not to the point where it's starting to scare me.

Okay.

Because luckily purple corn for us is probably the most expensive part of our supply chain. Got it. So there's, there's wiggle room here to make up for it.

Got it. Got it. What is the, like, as a founder, what, and you've been on this journey for probably more than, because there's a whole buildup to September, then September on or whatever. Like, what are the, what are the things you wish you wouldn't have done? Like, what do you, like, what do you learn the hard way? You did something and you wish you wouldn't have done it. And, and how are you course correcting from that?

Well, I think, All, all industries are filled with what I call used car salesmen, right? All industries. So the film, music.

I said yesterday, Neil said, someone said extortion. Can you remember that? Anyway, go ahead. I interrupted you.

I'm very interested to hear your point. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, no, but to, to your point, uh, yes. I mean, uh, there, there, there are a lot of, there could be a lot of good In being a, like, you know, like you guys and Adam and what you guys are doing to helping somebody with passion be like, hey, I really have this idea and I don't have the knowledge. So let me hire a consulting company to help me figure that out.

And that would be Adam, by the way. Adam would help you in that first part of that journey.

Correct. And that's an amazing, that's an amazing opportunity for both Adam and the The future founder. And there are one thing I regret doing was sharing too much information with a consulting company here in Los Angeles that come to find out had some legal problems with other brands.

Oh.

You know, before, before I even, uh, 'cause I got excited about the way that I connected with them and I thought it was meant to be. And I usually I didn't do it that time, but I usually do a lot of reconnaissance, a lot of background checks, if you will, before I work with anyone of significance like that. And then after the meeting happened, I then, a lot of my community, CPG community was like, oh, stay away from those guys. And then I'm like, why? Oh, shit. Pardon my French. I was like, oh no, that's, um, that's, that's horrible. Or even lawsuits of, uh, copyright infringement, taking someone else's idea and figuring out a way to package it themselves. So yeah, that was the, that was the one mistake I wish I could undo, but here we are.

Yeah. You need to, you didn't protect your moat. Is that the word? Like your IP, your intellectual property?

Did I, I did. I mean, I, I tried to, and I, I even said, would you guys sign an NDA? And they very much said no. Uh, and I thought, okay, well, It's fine. I mean, it's the way, again, because of the way I connected with him, I felt comfortable in that, but ultimately they proved to be shady people.

Yeah. So we can move on. Yeah. You know, not everything lands where it wants. So that's one lesson you learned. What's some other lessons you've learned?

Learning to say no more, you know, learning to say no. I think that's important. You know, sometimes as a founder, you can get very excited about the possibility of a relationship or where it could go with specifically. And as you're starting out to fan out your, your purpose as a company. And sometimes you, you have a limited amount of time in the day, so don't overwhelm yourself. It's okay.

Yeah, you need to meet, she was on our podcast, uh, Jayla Siciliano. She's out of Santa Barbara, California, I believe. Anyway, she founded a beverage brand. She ran it for about 9 years. Uh, Mark Cuban was behind her. She was on Shark Tank, but she has, uh, you should go on her podcast too. It's called, uh, Seed Money Podcast. Yeah. So I'll connect you, but I think it'd be interesting for you to talk to her because she's lived exactly what you're describing, like to the nut. And then she also understands that cash and that VC world. And I would say that's her expertise, just like Adam's his expertise and my expertise.

Yeah.

We want to get you to a point where you're ready to, you know, there's 4 kind of 5 levels of a brand. I always talk about this. There's foundation, uh, there's, uh, build, there's growth, there's scale and sustain, right? Now you're probably right now, you're like kind of that, like you're kind of growth now, right? You see, you, you, you're past the foundation stage. I believe you're in those 6 accounts. You're getting ready to go into 13 more accounts. You're gonna be in 21 accounts.

Yeah.

But you, you, you, that's a critical stage, right? But, you know, congratulations, because a lot of people never get past this stage right here. And you got past, that's the hardest part. Would you agree? Like your last years have been a hard year.

Very hard. The uncertainty of it all.

So I'm curious with, cause we got about 20 minutes left here. Like what are, just cause it's, let me phrase it this way. Myself and Sam tell a lot of brand owners what you just said, like be very focused about what you say no to or what you say yes to. You can flip it whichever way you want, right?

Sure, sure.

And they hear it and they go, they go, okay, yeah, sure. Right.

Right.

But I don't think they really understand specific examples. And as much as we, as the, you know, the consultants, right, try to tell them, they may be thinking like, as just another used car salesman, right? Because nobody wants to listen to that guy. So from your, from the brand owner's mouth, I would love it if you had a few, you know, 1, 2, 3 examples of like specific things you've said no to?

Yeah. I mean, I mean, going back to even to like the purple corn situation earlier on when I was looking for a supply chain, I reached out to this company. They're based in Poland. They were willing to give me a decent price for the corn. I had, I knew exactly how much supply I needed. Then I went back to him and I said, hey, this is exactly how much I need for this production run and probably 6 months after that, I'll need more for the next production run. So, and he gave me a really sweet deal, a deal that I thought was too good to be true. Now, the deal was gonna be good financially, but there was that uncertainty. And I did ask him, it's like I said, you based in Poland and then, you know, the product has to travel.

Mm-hmm.

Internationally twice before it gets to me. What kind of assurances can you give me that, well, we've been, you know, we've been doing this systematically for the last 9 years or whatever it's been. And by the time you need your next supply for your next run, we'll already have stock of purple corn. So I can even, as a favor to you, order it and put it in our manifest to ramp up our supply just to have it for you. And it would've been, I mean, it was like a 50% decrease of what I'm paying for Purple Corn now. I mean, it was significant.

That was gonna be my next question was like, how much of a pill was that to swallow? 50%'s a big pill.

Big pill. And I said, okay, well, let me think about this. And the thinking process, you almost have to— I know the way that I'm, at least the way that I'm wired, I take my time. I take my time. I don't like to be feeling pressured. Some people don't. Some people— and I get that this world, at least in the CPG world, there are going to be times that you need to be like, yes.

Mm-hmm.

You need to be kind of a seasoned CEO without having all of the years of experience as a CEO to making those decisions. And there have been a few things like that that I've had to be like, no, yes, no, yes. But the bigger things, if it doesn't need to be answered immediately, there's really no need for you to make a decision right then and there. So take your time, breathe it in. And then what happened was I went to Expo West and I met with my formulator there. We had already been working on the formula for, for months at this point.

Yeah.

And she goes, hey, come by and walk the floor of the supply, you know, show down the street from the expo. Maybe there's someone there that can help your supply chain. And lo and behold, the answer came. And that's where, that's where I met our current supplier. So, um, so yeah, saying no sometimes just means taking the time. If it doesn't need to be answered right away, Then it's probably for a good reason.

Yeah.

So trust me.

I think it's a really impactful story. And, you know, Sam and I talk about this all the time, both amongst ourselves and with brand owners, like, and it's such a fucking beaten to death phrase and I hate myself for saying it, but like finding the balance between, you know, yes, some things need immediate decision and sometimes you can get into, you know, analysis paralysis. Right. And like, oh, I've been spinning my wheels for 3 months thinking about the same thing. Make a fucking decision and move on. It'll probably be wrong, but you've got to move. Right. But there is a middle ground of picking, picking those battles when you can, for sure.

Yeah. And this was, I mean, this has not been my experience thus far, and I don't think I'll probably experience this, but earlier on when I was thinking about hiring this consulting company, You know, falling a few times is necessary sometimes, you know, as long as it doesn't cost you too much, especially in a business that you don't know anything about. I mean, I, I've seen brands from the same consulting company washed out financially, completely obliterated by them.

Mm-hmm.

Because the founders put way too much trust in their ability to care for their brand. And, and then you hear an awful announcement and they're like, yeah, we're closing shop. I'm like, oh man, that's too bad. You had a great product.

I, uh, we will not name it for the sake of all of our legal lives and not having to pay our lawyers, but guessing I know who you're talking about. And I applaud you for, for moving in a different direction because this industry is fairly small. I apologize. I do have to hit the restroom. This coffee is taking its, its hold on me. I will be right back. And then Sam, we can ask our wrap-up questions.

Yeah. Yeah. You go ahead and do that, Adam. Maybe we're back. That's funny. That's when we run live raw and roll, man.

He left, he left us on a cliffhanger, this guy. That is, uh, but, but when you gotta go, you gotta go.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's funny. Look, this isn't for the faint of heart. this, this business at all, and I applaud you for still being in it. The failure rate is at 95%.

I thought it was 99.

It could be. I think, you know, but the difference, you know, we'll get in in a second, but the failure rate's awfully high. And Adam will ask the, the, the big question, by the way, when he comes back, the cliffhanger. But when you, when you think about what you've done, you go out there in the marketplace yourself. It's your brand. It's not that consultant's brand. It's not the distributor's brand. It's not Bristol-Myers brand. It's your brand. And I love hearing you say like, hey, I'm like you said, tastings, and that you go into those accounts and you bring 'em a case and you hand that case to folks. That's exactly what we tell founders, especially the, the, the foundation brands. I tell brands all the time, I'm like, look, we might not be the right stop for you today. You know, the best thing you can do yourself is go work the market yourself. I literally told a brand this. I said, you should move to Houston. You and your brother should go open up 100 accounts. After you open up 100 accounts, give me a call. You know, because, you know, you know, we have sales reps across the country. We can put people in and market, but we're not, we don't, we're retained, you know, but we don't have a crystal ball. How many nos? Here's a question for you. How many nos to get to those 6 accounts? How many people did you see before you got those 6 accounts to say yes?

Uh, well, I think the hardest one that I had to get on my own, and I'll just say who they are because they've been wonderful, and, you know, was Farm Shop in Brentwood. And the reason that was really hard for me was because, number one, Brentwood— I don't know if people know much about LA locations, but Brentwood is, you know, whatever. It's home to those 0.0% of people that just live in, in, in In bets of money. And Farm Shop in Brentwood is their go-to grocer. So you've got a lot of top quality, you know, product that lives on that shelf. So when I, when I reached out initially, we, I got a, I got a, a maybe. And then, then I got another no from someone above that person. And then that person that said no quit. So then I, then, then I was like, okay, so maybe, maybe this is, uh, it's the same thing in film. When a VP leaves the studio, then you can be like, hey, by the way, ex-VP had promised me to make this movie. So eventually, yeah, I got through probably 2 and a half, 3 nos before I eventually landed.

Mm-hmm.

farm shop. And again, because of that, the quality of people that walk in there as far as cash is concerned.

But you just didn't walk in with your product and get distribution. You had to go back and ask a couple more times before they— and what's the timeframe of that, by the way? How quickly did that happen?

2 months. 2 months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, you know, it's again, finessing it, you know, you had to, and I also, I liked to go there sometimes when I used to be able to afford it, to eat some of their amazing breakfast. So they knew me there just as a consumer.

I can tell you, you're going to sell your brand for $3 billion, um, in the next 3 to 5 years.

I'm sorry about that.

Sam, Adam, if that happens in the next, say, we'll say, let's say, say 5 years. If that happens in the next 5 years, you both will be receiving a call and I'll say, hey guys, just because here's the keys to your Lamborghinis. You could do whatever you want.

It's recorded here. It's gonna happen. Alicia knows it too, because I just put it in the ethers.

You don't know me, but I'm— I would be known to do that. I'm the type of person that if I, if I say it, and I can have it, and I can do it, then I would.

Say it to the universe, man. Shout it out, brother.

So, you know, you guys could sell it, you can put it in your garage, whatever. It's yours. So, but look, I mean, again, it's all relationship-based. And like, To, you know, just, just be a good person and have fun.

Yeah.

As long as you're having fun.

That's, uh, that's amazing. So the most important question, Adam, you want to ask that question? Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so Marcel, what's the difference between success and failure?

Oh man. Well, the main difference is that you shouldn't be afraid of failure because there's always something to learn from your failure. that will take you to your next success. I think success is just the cherry on top, right? But even after you get to that place, there's always something new to learn. And I come from the school of thought that this is not mine. I wish it had been mine, but it's my mentor, Brad Mindich, who I love dearly and has been in my corner, but has also been very challenging. And he's always been keeping me on my toes. And he Taught me this philosophy that you have to be comfortable being the stupidest man in the room. Comfortable being the keyword, he would say, because you could always learn something new. And that's, that's what I'm here for, learning.

That's amazing.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I'm rooting you on. Adam's rooting you on. Why don't we go around, go around the room, couple things. So Marcel.

Yep.

Is there anything that we didn't talk about today that you want to share with our audience about you, your brand, anything in your mind that we missed that you want to convey?

Well, if you're looking to try something new on the shelves and that is non-carbonated and rich of full antioxidants, natural coloring, that's great for your cardiovascular health and great for your heart, great for your blood, then give us a try. Kuli is there to Give you a new experience. But other than that, no, I, I think, um, you guys have been wonderful, the both of you. Thank you so much for just creating this for us.

Well, that's, that's kind of you, Adam. Any closing thoughts on your end?

Thank you for joining us.

You're frozen, Adam.

Very kind.

Frozen. And, uh, I think his audio is—

goddamn it.

Yeah, we can't hear you, Adam. Any closing thoughts? Are you back?

My connection lately has just been Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay. I gotta get this computer in to get looked at. It's gonna give me hell all week. Yeah, no, I mean, I think, again, thank you for joining us. Super interesting to hear your story coming from— I say it all the time, but the number of people that come into beverage or CPG from the arts, as I'll refer to them, right? Like radio, film, music, that kind of stuff. It seems to be a larger number than one might expect. So I always find it fascinating when I can add somebody to that list. Really?

That's funny.

Yeah. Number of former musicians that I talked to that are either former musicians, former radio people that are in this space is absurd. It's probably 40% of everybody I know in this world.

Wow.

Thank you to Alicia and Cogs and Martin for joining us in the comments. Uh, good morning all. And yeah, I mean, I think my closing comment is, uh, thank you for just sharing what to say no to, for being honest about the numbers, right? Like trying to raise half a million dollars, saying no to a 50% sale savings on your supply chain. Like that's real shit, right? That's real shit that brand owners think like, oh, it'll be fine. Sure. Like there is a way through that. There is a solution, but that's a difficult fucking hurdle to overcome. Right. So that's it. That's the call that I want to make. And again, thank you for joining us.

Yeah, that's awesome. A couple of things on my end to share. First of all, Marcel, thank you so much again for joining us. You know, I loved, uh, you know, there's not a right answer to anything, but I did love your answer And when you, when you said you got Bristol Farms and I asked, what are you going to do in order to drive demand? And you said tasting, sampling, which is the number one thing in beverages, by the way. If you're going to invest anything, get the can in hands, as people say, because that's going to go a long way for your brand. Because one can in hand equals 10 more people knowing about your brand because someone, they're going to tell 10 of their friends about it. So I think that's a great way to build. The other thing is just being willing to say no, which you had an opportunity to save 50% on your cost of goods on your corn. And you saw something that the path would be better. So I think that's great advice to any founder out there is to, you know, step back and slow down. Which you said that too. You said, look, I'm not quick to make a decision. I know when I have to make decisions, but often I move a little bit slower. To make the best decision. One of the best pieces of advice I got when I was interviewing with Miller back in the days, I was talking to a psychologist, she had to go some type of some psychology interview, but he said, slow down to speed up. And I think that's really good advice. We all were running a million miles an hour in that. And I do believe, you know, I got to call Alicia. She had a couple of things here in the comments.

Yes.

If you don't have the answers, Today, the solutions come. Trust the process. And I think that's great advice, Alicia, as well, uh, that we all need to take, uh, uh, from this because things happen for a reason. You don't know why they happen, but they do. And, uh, if you trust in the process, the universe will reward you and just manifest it. It's already happened. And I'm waiting for my Lamborghini here in the next 3 years, so I'm excited.

Well, I, I, I've, you, you, you've got proof that I said it. So I will, I will, I will honor that.

You know, uh, all kidding aside, man, we just would love to see you be successful, brother. I love this. I, you know, I do. I need to get out to San Diego area. I think I told you when we talked, my daughter lives down in, uh, Del Mar.

That's right.

Area. So we have, uh, a few reps out there and, and several business relationships. I'd love to come out and at least, uh, go to a Peruvian restaurant. And I'll get that name from my friends. I told you about my friends at Monte. They're in Pasadena. I don't know if you looked them up yet.

Not yet.

Yeah, I need to connect you guys. I'll do that. But anyway, they took me to this really cool Peruvian restaurant where you had to like, you had to go outside to go to the bathroom, by the way. So you go in the front door. Do you know, maybe you know what it is? You go in the front door, great meal, but then you had to go outside to go around to go to use the restroom.

No, I didn't. Okay.

I have to— Cut through the kitchen. So the key was like, you know, it's like a long kind of like strip mall kind of thing. There was like, you know, the, the restaurant, then you had the kitchen in the back. They had the restroom.

Oh man. Well, I just, I just had my gallbladder removed, so I need to get me some Peruvian food. I haven't been able to eat regular food for about 3 months, so.

I've been there, by the way. I've had my gallbladder removed too.

Yeah. So, you know, if you are, and I gotta get, uh, Adam some coulis too, so please. It is.

Yeah, you do some coulis. Coulis, Adam. Well, Adam, you know, is gonna upgrade his computer hopefully in the next couple weeks.

God, this thing's pissing me off. If you guys can hear me, A, I would gladly take some samples and B, there's a restaurant here in Minnesota called— fuck, I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's a Peruvian-Japanese fusion restaurant and it's delicious. And so if you're ever in town, Sam and I would love to meet up and have a meal with you there because I didn't know how much Japanese influence kind of shares culinary experience with Peru. But yeah, it's fantastic. It's in a little town that my wife works in. So. Uh, when you're— when the time comes, we'd love to take you there.

Oh my God, that'd be great. Yeah, I mean, Peru was ruled by a Japanese man for 10 years.

Mm-hmm.

So Peru's very, very well versed in the Japanese culture.

Right.

Now I'm gonna be Googling that to look for that. Well, thanks everybody for joining us. We'll, we'll shut her down. It's, uh, 10, a little after 10:30. Marcel and Adam, please remain on the line. Everybody, uh, thanks for joining, uh, us on Drink Up, uh, this weekend. Uh, we'll be back next week, live, raw, and real. I think Adam will be here. We're gonna try to figure that out, but, uh, I got a big wedding next week with my daughter, so I might be taking, uh, time off from Drink Up, or we'll move up the, the time during the week for a happy hour. But thanks again, Marcel. Thanks again, Adam. Everybody have a great Saturday.

Thank you.

Thanks, everybody.