Revolutionizing Non-Alcoholic Beverages with Amy Yanzer

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Drink Up on this Saturday, February 21st. We got myself as always and Sam Anderson and our guest today, Amy. Welcome, Amy.

Thank you.

Amy's here with Forward Beverage, which we are going to let her tell us all about here shortly. Before we get into that, and I always feel so out of practice when I do this, I'll try to get through our sponsor shoutouts. We've got myself and Alias Advising, Ryan Halliman and On the Rocks Advisors, Sam and Alicia with Bev Assets, and as always, Jay Williams and Freebird. Sam, where's our obligatory Jay Williams Freebird can?

Here it is. I just cracked one open just now.

I was thirsty.

It's just the carbonated one.

Shout out to Jay as always. Welcome. So Amy, if you want to start with just giving us a little bit on, I know we were talking about it, so feel free to add, subtract, whatever as you see fit, but you, your husband Paul, Forward, just all the things, who you are, what you do.

Sure. We are a non-alcoholic functional beverage company based in Wausau. We moved to Wausau from Madison in 2022 for a job. The job wasn't where we thought it was gonna go. So we had to pivot. And what we talked about one night at dinner when my newly sober husband ordered water for the umpteenth time was, wouldn't it be great if there was something local and non-alcoholic that we would like to drink, right? So from that dinner, we started talking about what would be a great idea for a brand, a logo, a business. And we came up with the idea that, hey, if you make the drinks, I'll talk about 'em and sell 'em. So fast forward, we opened a non-alcoholic alcoholic taproom. So you can come into our store, you can sit and have a drink. You can have a THC CBD add-in from hemp. Um, you can buy 4-packs to go. And all of that boosted our visibility in the community. It gave us a physical space, a place to give back from, and, uh, launched us into distribution 9 months later.

That is awesome.

That is awesome. So you, to paraphrase, You opened a, I would assume a first of its kind, maybe not the first, but probably one of the first, uh, non-alc and, and kind of cannabis-driven taprooms slash, you know, distribution companies in Wisconsin.

Yes.

Very cool. Yes. So, which, uh, 'cause to Sam's point, right, I'll nerd out on this all day. Which, where do we want to go first? Do we want to go into, you know, the taproom and all the uniquenesses and, and that business? Or do we want to go into distribution? Because they've each got their own challenges and hurdles.

And I would like to— well, they're, they're with Frank's and Badger, so they've done a really good job of building their distribution in Wisconsin. So they're, they're with a, a nice distribution network, which is hats off to them.

Yeah, we are.

Well, let's start with that one then. Let's start with distribution. So tell us what that process was like, like making the decision to get into it, finding a solid partner, like walk us through it.

Yeah. How'd you get in, by the way? Everybody's like fighting to get in, but you got in.

Yeah. Well, the taproom. So this was my husband's genius idea. This taproom has done more for marketing and advertising than any amount of paid social or paid TV ads or radio sponsorships. I mean, people were enthralled. So we boarded up the taproom and we did all the renovations ourselves. I'm gonna give you a quick, just little view over. I love it. We're right downtown on a one-way street. So you have to drive by and see us. And very shortly after we opened, we had some local Badger reps coming in and I was here working every day. I gave the spiel, I described our beverages. I described what they're made from. I let people try them. And then they kept bringing in their other people from Badger. So first it was the sales rep, then it was the regional director. And then the guy over from Green Bay came to visit us. And shortly after that, we got on a call with the, you know, the director of spirits who was heading all of the non-alcoholic and hemp products at the time. And, um, we, we got working with them. And now here's the great part about this. We were given a contract. We took it to our attorney and read through it and everything, knowing that things could change with this hemp bill. And so instead of a 5-year agreement, we negotiated down to a 2-year renewable contract. As of November, that was our 180-day notice, and we were able to protect ourselves as a smaller brand in their big portfolio. in case something would happen like hemp not becoming legal in drinks anymore.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So we work with them. Yeah, I, I do think it is something that we're, I'm proud of as a small business looking out for ourselves and totally making sure that we're thinking forward into the future. Our bestselling products are the In Fashioned, which is a play on the Old Fashioned, right? People in Wisconsin love it. We partner with Festival Foods. They picked us up right away, all of our hemp drinks. And then just this January, we had another promotion where we had an end cap special with them, and that went really well.

Well, you gotta, I mean, I want to stay on topic, but you got it. I'm, I got to find, or I have to go find it, but, um, you have to show how this is made. They have a technology in their can, by the way. Right. And, uh, like when you pour the drink, can we do it live by chance? Or is that too much?

We can do it live. You want to do it now or you want to wait?

Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into it.

Yeah.

All right.

Let's go slow here, Amy.

Let me just, man.

Or we go with the flow, I guess, is the question. So, yeah. So you got a lot of this happening.

The way that this came about, we applied for a small business grant through a big bank out of Chicago, and we asked for a nitro canner, right? So we have this small canning machine in the back, and my husband developed a technology. There's no widget in here, mind you, but I'm shaking it hard for like 20 seconds and then I'm going to let it sit.

That's the first thing I asked, because I represent Guinness and Guinness had the widget in the cans.

Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna let that sit. What we did when we wanted to do this line of drinks, Paul had it all formulated in his head. We were canning these by hand, right? I'd set the filler and he'd go over and can it, and then we'd flip it over and stamp it, and we couldn't keep up, right? So we finally found a co-manufacturer to be able to do this for us. But what's so cool about these nitro drinks is it's a 10-ounce drink in a 12-ounce can. When you shake the can, the nitrogen activates. It kind of feels hard and firm. And then after I let it set, When I pour it, do you have to let it sit for a certain amount of time, Amy? I'd say 20 seconds. Otherwise it'll explode all over.

That would be me, which I've done.

And it's really fun too.

Right. I want to see it poured. I want to see it.

Okay. So we've let that set. I'll tell you what's in it though, too. It's 30 calories. It's smooth like a Guinness. It's got, this is my lemon drop. So it's going to have lemon, sativa terpenes, rhodiola. It's 7.5 milligrams CBD to 2.5 milligrams of THC. So it's just light and that terpene gives it a really earthy, citrusy hit on the nose when I open this.

My neighbor must be enjoying this right now, by the way. I'm just kind of like, what the heck?

There's that pour. Look at that.

Look at that.

And then the, the foam ahead rises to the top. So it's like somebody made you an egg white shaken cocktail, but it comes out of a can.

Adam, this is game-changing, man. Have you seen anybody do anything like this?

Not in the presentation. So I, I assume, cuz obviously I'm not there, but from a production standpoint, right? You're, you get like a chart cryo doser.

I don't know if I know the answer to that. Cryo doser. No, we use like liquid, liquid nitrogen. Yeah. So we fill the cans and then, yeah. But now we have a co-man who can do this.

Okay. So that's, so the reason I'm asking is I've not seen, I'm sure they exist, but I've not seen like a manual nitrogen doser. I've seen the, the cryo doser is what like your co-man probably has in line that like senses the can and then drops a shot of nitrogen into it. Right.

I knew you'd nerd out on this stuff.

But I think the, the reason I say that is like, I think a lot of, again, 9 years of doing this, right? Like a lot of folks don't take advantage of, it's not even something I've talked about a ton. They don't take advantage of what Amy just walked us through, which is the presentation opportunity with nitrogen, right? Like they think, oh, if I want a still beverage, I use nitrogen, I crack it, I drink it, I go on. What they don't realize is like she's saying, if you shake it and kind of, cuz that nitrogen just sits, it's just a blanket on top, right?

That's right.

It's just to keep, it's just to keep the can rigid. But if you shake it and let it set, it does give you That, that mouthfeel, that sensory, that texture. You just have to, you just have to, you just have to give it a little love first, right? But nobody does that. And so everyone's like, oh cool, it's a still beverage. Because if you crack the can and drink it, the nitrogen escapes and then you just have flat liquid, which for some cool. But again, like if you're gonna have a taproom, this is the experience, right?

Well, think of your, like an on-premise account too. They're trying to make these Shirley Temples and promote 'em. You can just put this in the can. It's ready to go. It's high quality ingredients, the whole bit. So I mean, I, I love it.

So yeah, this is what he made this for, is for on-premise, right? Because everybody wants a mocktail, but it costs so much time to make that mocktail when you have a busy bar line. And if you can just shake it and pour it and go, right?

And think about it in the course of an evening, people didn't stop drinking. They just changed their occasion when they drink. Right.

Have you, any of you guys, and I may or may not be touching on something you've already thought about, have you considered kegging? Some of these cocktails?

Yes. So we have done that locally for bars and restaurants in town. There was a brunch that they had down around the corner from us. We kegged a Citrosa, which is our play on the mimosa, so they could do bottomless mimosas, right, with yuzu, lime, and orange. And then there's a, a brew house around the corner that wanted our In Fashioned on keg, right? So you pour that, that's like our adult Shirley Temple. It's got aromatic bitters, rosemary, tart cherry. Um, blood orange, and you can add a cherry and an orange and you've got this great alternative to an Old Fashioned, just like we like them in Wisconsin. I had people eat lunch there. They came to Black Clover because they saw my label on the can and they bought 4-packs to take back down to Milwaukee, like a whole case of them. Right.

That's awesome.

So it's just this really neat collaboration where we're able to give on-premise local area bars and restaurants an alternative that gives them dollars, gets them revenue, but also like brings it back to us.

Totally. So I'm, I'm, yeah, to Sam's point, we could nerd out on so much of this all day long. I'm really curious to hear your perspective on—

That's why I let Adam take the lead with you, Amy. You guys are going to nerd out the whole time.

So I'm, well, I'm, I'm in, Sam, you'll appreciate this because in, in some of the folks Sam and I know together in Minnesota who shall remain nameless because everybody's business is their own, but they're, they're struggling, right? Either their own line of SKUs or other people's of, you know, you know, the doom and gloom over all the hemp bill and what if, you know, and all of a sudden everybody was clutching their pearls and drawing back their business. And it sounds like you guys took a really pragmatic approach of like, hey, yeah, we're not going to commit to 5 years, but we're still going to do this because we believe in it and we think it's going to be a thing that people will want. So like, walk me through, I guess, or walk us through like how you arrived to that decision as opposed to, God, we're just going to wait until it's figured out or Fuck it, you know, we'll do it for 5 years.

You know what I mean?

Like how you got to that kind of very pragmatic middle ground.

Yeah. I'm gonna get you samples to illustrate my point.

She's great.

She's a showman. Absolutely.

Reminds me of Samantha Skyring. You missed that one. She was a Kalahari salt, um, person outta South Africa.

Mm-hmm.

It's great.

So when we launched, we launched with 8 SKUs of 2 styles. So these are my soft cocktails. They're not mocktails cuz there's nothing mock or missing about 'em. They're made with real juice extracts, electrolytes, and And we use a gum arabic to give that mouthfeel, right? And so it's not filled with sugar. This is 50 calories. It's got pink guava, Meyer lemon, Himalayan salt, and coriander. It was inspired by a beer that my husband used to love, right? He's not drinking anymore. This is the same flavor, but this has the hemp in it. So when we opened, we already had 2 promising NAs for people with either want the hemp or you don't, right? What we knew when that Farm Bill was coming through was if this goes away, we still have these, right? And then we launched into this more with more adaptogens like lion's mane, rhodiola, anything else that Paul can put into a can that people are wanting with that. So we weren't terribly worried about it. These are 60% of our business. However, in Wisconsin, people wanna drink hemp and they wanna get high from it. So we launched at 2.5 because we're like, oh, it's sociable. People can have 1 or 2 or maybe even 3. Well, that went out the window in 6 months and we had to reformulate all of our drinks with 10s and 25s.

Yes. When one of our clients is going to 10s, he's at 5 and no one wants 5.

Nope. They don't move. They don't move. So, um, here at my taproom, I can dose it for you on, on the tap. So let's say you buy a drink and then I can put in, if you want 5 or if you want 20, I'll just add it in like a shot. Anyway, so when we launched with these 2, we knew that if this went away, we would just lean into this more. And even with this Nitro Canna cocktail that we have right here with the terpenes, We'll leave those terpenes in so you still get the essence of the cannabis cocktail. Um, but we would take out the hemp and CBD and put other things in it. So that was our solution and workaround of what would happen if something like this, um, move up.

I, A, thank you. B, well done. I mean, I had so many—

I love it that Adam's like in the center here with you. Like you guys are just nerding out. This is, this is fantastic.

Well, it, it's, I mean, agreed. I think How many, you know, Sam, how many times have we talked to other folks personally or on this show about like, I mean, prime example, there's a, um, what's his name? Gary, gentleman named Gary works for a vodka company out of Chicago. Right. And he called me a while back. Um, forgot how he found me. Um, might've been through Alicia actually. But, uh, but Gary called me and was like, hey, you know, I work for this vodka company. We have a large portfolio of existing kind of 750 and 1.5 liters. We want to get into the canned business, both canned cocktails and THC. And I was like, okay, great. So we had a very nice, you know, 30-minute, 45-minute phone call. And part of that conversation was, well, what happens if this bill, you know, kind of rains on everybody's parade? And I was like, dude, brand identity is brand identity. So like, don't, you know, if you're going to go into cans, like you're clearly already known for vodka, do a vodka cocktail. Right? Like do a, a Paloma or do a whatever, right? A, a vodka mule, what have you. And then, you know, if you wanna start in hemp and then if you need to pull it back, pull it back. If you wanna add it later, once you have brand recognition, add it later. But like there's a path through this provided you have notoriety regardless, right? So yeah, I, I, I applaud your efforts. I think it's a brilliant plan.

So a couple people coming in, uh, that joined us this morning. So thanks, uh, Gavin Conkle. I don't know if you know Gavin.

I guess I'll avoid that phone.

Gavin, thanks for joining. Alicia Vargo. Gavin says, nice little buzz. Alicia says, brilliant woman, forward-thinking. Every marketer should take tips from her. Marketing, distro, and differentiation from the rest of the competition. This is really good stuff.

Wow.

Thanks, Alicia. And then Garvin says, I keep seeing tons of data on alcohol consumption among Gen Zs plus Gen A. Seems dramatic decline. across all alch, are consumers shifting to this THC or anxiety relief drinks and mass eliminating altogether?

So are you seeing the younger crowd?

When I, I love having this taproom because I can ask people, why are you here? How did you find out about us? What, what makes you drawn to non-alchs? Right. And Gen Z is not drinking in, at least in this area, the THC as much as I thought they would. I thought they'd be all over it. They don't want anything. They want the straight up soft cocktails. They wanna feel everything. They come and they like bring their knitting in and they do that, or they play cards Like they're not as interested.

Gen Z is knitting and playing cards. That sounds like my grandma.

Yes, there is. There's a throwback to that, right? That's what I'm seeing. Maybe.

Interesting.

That's, uh, I mean, again though, it's, it's the, and we've talked about it, Sam, before you and I, even not on the show, just like the, the non-alc taproom, right? Of just giving folks a place to go chill and hang out and play games without the pressure, right? Of having to be there to drink. Right. So is, is, okay, so let's take it a different direction. So you've got distribution. You've got the taproom, like where now? Like, is it just growing both of those arms of the business kind of slow and steady wins the race? Or are you like, hey, we wanna open a second location in Madison. Like what, what happens next?

So that was our original plan. We knew that there's a million CPGs on the shelves, but what sets us apart is this taproom. So let's put taprooms in the cities around the state and then expand out from there. And then you have this connection to the brand, this connection to the experience, right?

Cool. So I'm gonna have to get a taproom in Minnesota. We're gonna go into business together.

I mean, I've already talked to the people who can franchise this for me. So I'm just waiting because we do have a system of how we can get our beverages on tap and then ship them very easily. You know, we've already thought about this, but that's really on hold for right now because we want to lean into the wholesale a little bit more. Now there's 2 other legs of my business that I'm excited about. One is e-commerce. Because I can ship almost anywhere with these. Now that will change in November if nothing happens legally, but I have shipped to, I don't know, well over 20 states, right? Like people just find my stuff and they buy it, which is super cool.

Are you just in your back room, just like boxing and shipping?

Yeah. I've got all my supplies over there. I've got my label printer here. I ship 'em. I know the UPS guy. So when he's there, I'll like give him my packages. Otherwise I'll run 'em like 10 minutes down the road. Right. It's great. And then the emulsion that we use for our CBD THC. My husband makes himself. So a lot of people are using Soar or Veritosa. He made his own all plant-based because we were gonna do that. It would be simpler. But the bitter blockers that they used in that emulsion took away from the ingredients that he had already comprised the recipes of, right? Like it blocked the bitters, the aromatic bitters that we were using, or the extracts that made the drink a little bit elevated. So he is like, screw it, I'm gonna do it myself. So that's our competitive advantage. I don't have to— my cost on that is very good. And we have the equipment make that at scale. So if and when the laws change in Wisconsin, and let's say you have to buy the THC hemp from Wisconsin farmers produced in Wisconsin, well then we're winning there too. So those are the 4 legs of the business right now. We're gonna lean into the wholesale and the e-commerce a little bit more while we're waiting for the bills to change.

So are you looking to expand outta Wisconsin someday? Okay. But you're going, you're going, you're going, uh, kind of the Adam Corner deal, right? You know, the Carbless guy, go, Yeah. An inch wide and a mile deep.

In our own backyard. That's right. We've gotta be regional first. What we named our business for though was after the state motto. There's a bunch of non-elks, but there's no brand that you recognize like Leinenkugels or Miller Lite or even Carlsberg is from Wisconsin now, right? We wanna be that non-elk brand that's lined up against all those elk options. So when you go out, you know, oh, I know this, I like it, I trust it. I wanna have it.

Yeah. Love it.

Very cool. So when you talk about wanting to focus on distribution and e-commerce, obviously, or maybe not obviously, 'cause I don't live in Wisconsin, so I can't say I know this for sure. I assume doing in-store samplings with a THC-driven beverage, a little trickier than doing it with maybe a non-alc, right? Uh, what does growing distribution or store footprint look like? In terms of, is it just going in and talking to, you know, trying to get, uh, meetings, phone calls, whatever, set up with buyers and, and proving out the data? Is it going and, and, you know, maybe doing a sampling, but you're doing the non-alc and then saying, by the way, we also have the THC. Like, what does that look like?

That's exactly what we did with our festival promotion in January. So we had the non-alcs on ice able to sample, and then we had the THC drinks right next to it to say, hey, these are actually available. And I don't know of many other brands who can do that. What is common practice right now is for the THC drinks to just have dry samplings where you pay somebody to stand there for you and talk about it. But who wants to buy something that they can't taste? Because most of those drinks—

I was in Vegas just recently at, uh, WSWA, cuz you cannot taste hemp products. So they had the dry or they had the non-THC in there. But you're right, your, your strategy's point on. It's great.

Cool. And so then from an e-commerce perspective, I mean, is that, is that marketing and advertising dollars? Is it social media? Like what does that look like?

It's mostly social media. It's mostly been organic growth so far. And then we also have our email list from our customer base, from our point of sale in the taproom, right? So that's how I've gathered my base of followers, and then I can let them know about sales or new products or things from that. So it's a little bit of that, all, all 3.

Okay. And from a, uh, I had the website up here from a SKU list, right? So if I go back to, lemme get a count here. What's this? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9.

Who's that drink? Yes.

9 different products.

Yes.

Is there, you know, again, I think we've, we've made mention of it already. I'll say it again, like the, the having the, the truly straight up non-alch and the THC both as an option, whether that's for in-person depending on people's preferences or sampling. is brilliant. As I'm sure you've heard before, you know, Sam and I get a lot of people who are like, I'm gonna start with 4 SKUs. And then in 6 months, I'm gonna have 14. And then in 5 years, I'm gonna have 47. And I'm gonna rule the world in 4, right?

Well, they're not gonna make it in 5 years, they're gonna scale and sell in 3 to 5.

Right. So, you know, is it something where from a, from a product mix perspective, you're like, hey, these 9 are rocking, we're gonna stick with these? Are you like, hey, we're gonna add one a year, we're gonna do like a seasonal one? Like, what does that look like?

This is, this is complicated and difficult. We have too many and not all of them are great sellers. So we're gonna stick to the ones that we have. And the other ones are gonna go away naturally as they, um, as they sell out, we're not gonna make more.

Okay.

The benefit of us having a physical location and a taproom is that it gives my business partner a creative outlet. So if he wants to make something new, because that's what he's really good at, we can do it here. We can see how it goes. We can get feedback from people. Honestly, everything that he's created has been a home run except one. He tried to make a Manhattan and he used bone broth. It tasted like soup, but at least we didn't go to like the co-packer with it. Right. And we have this, like, we have this place to do it.

That's amazing.

I've been known to drink bone broth, so I might be your customer for that.

You might be. It just didn't land very well.

That's fantastic.

So yes, we have too many right now. Um, but we're young and we're learning and yeah. And we'll stick to the good ones and then we'll probably lean into more seasonal releases. You know, he used to work at Octopi Brewing very closely with Untitled Art, and they're known for their one-offs, right? And that's their whole business model. So that's a lot of what he learned and what he enjoys doing is something new and creative and different. The other great part about our business is that we can do collaborations with other people. We're talking to the art museum in town. They have an event space and they wanna do an exclusive mocktail. With their logo, their brand, but our recipes.

You just make custom cans.

And so that's another way.

You do custom cans? Oh wow.

Oh yeah. You can, I mean, you digitally print 'em super easily. Yeah.

Yeah. Like Craft Beverage Warehouse or anybody.

Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. The, the, this is just me venting and if anybody's listening from BevSource, you can deal with it. I really wish, and it's not all BevSource's fault, it's also just a little bit of the state of Minnesota, but God, if, if, so I mentioned to you, Amy, that I worked at a pilot facility. It's still around. They still do pilots. I'm going to be doing one there with a customer or client here in a few weeks. They do great work, but when, when everything kind of got spun up several years ago, the question got bounced around more times than I can count of, well, are we going to offer THC products and can we do pilots for people on that? We had a taproom. Are we going to serve them? And unfortunately, based both on Minnesota laws and Just the fact that BevSource is a larger business and didn't want to run afoul of potential regulations and put other areas of the business at risk, they just put a hard no on like, hey, sorry, right? Not here. You know, they'll work on projects for people, but they won't physically make it at the lab, which is just such a bummer because—

Yeah. Cool, cool place there though. You could make stuff right there. I mean, we, I did that tour with you. It was pretty amazing.

Yeah. Such a bummer. So yeah, I'm, I'm very glad to hear that somebody has capitalized on the opportunity because clearly it's working. So yeah, Sam, what do you got? I've been rambling for 30 minutes.

So let's talk about the hard. Like, I mean, this just, it sounds like you just arrived and everything just magically worked for you. So can we, can just from like, from a founder standpoint, like where's been the hard in this and how'd you get over it?

Well, everything's been hard. I'm a really positive person, but this whole experience, I don't think anything has worked out the way That we thought it would. So being able to pivot. Also, we didn't take investor money. We started with a little bit of what we had and we got a local loan. And I think that freedom to not have people waiting for us to do things, telling us what to do has been great for us. Right. It gives us more freedom and responsibilities too. The great and awful and wonderful hard thing is that I got pregnant like 2 years after we opened this business. And I am 100% blaming these drinks because I—

I think this is a trend with some of my friends. By the way, I think this is a trend with some of my friends that founded brands. It's like pregnancy and finding a brand seems to correlate.

Yeah. Well, it wasn't planned and it wasn't ideal, but it's our greatest blessing. Right. But again, that unexpected, oh shit, now what are we going to do? Right. But it's been a great story because guess what? I used to say I wish I would have had these soft cocktails to drink when I was pregnant. And sure enough, I went to a Christmas party and I wasn't ready to tell everybody, but I could have these and nobody was questioning me. Right. Because it's okay not to drink alcohol. alcohol anymore when you have an adult tasting and looking product. What are the— go ahead.

No, I'm listening.

Go ahead.

Yeah. Um, so then that was just hard because my brain totally shifted. I was doing marketing, advertising, sales. I was going out and doing tastings. I was setting up events and I really shut down and pulled back from that. So what was hard was not having that same energy to be able to focus on the brand when I was focusing on my family. And then the other hard, as great as this taproom This takes a lot of work. This is taking more work and more focus from us as founders away from the wholesale and distribution side of things. So as great as it was to launch, we're looking at how to set this up so that it can run itself a little bit more than we are. And as owner operators who are coming from different fields and different backgrounds, it's hard to let go of something that's your baby, right? So that's been a challenge. I think Distribution, as great as it is, you know, they're still not your salespeople. You have to do the work and show up and, um, make sure that you're checking in on accounts and having them fill orders just as much as, you know, they say they're gonna do that for you. And, um, I think we do have a good partner in distribution, but it's not easy. So.

Yeah. I, oh yeah, I'm gonna do that analysis for you. I committed to do that, by the way, cuz I'm curious how many reorders, your velocity. I think you gave me a lot of your data. Uh, if I can't find it, I'll ask for it. For again, I can get that pretty quickly. But yeah, it's interesting that you said that, you know, distributors are great. They're great partners.

Yes.

But they're really good at one thing. They get the product from their warehouse to the retail shelf. And they're good at taking orders as well. I don't know if they're great at selling your product. And I, I mean, no offense to our distributors out there, by no means. So they have priorities and there's a lot of pressure for them to deliver stuff. So I I think one thing you said that anybody listening to this is you go work the market. You didn't get distribution and you didn't disappear. You go work your brand in the market with those accounts and get those orders. And we talked to so many founders and they think, hey, I just got Southern Glacier Wine and Spirits. My job is done. They're gonna go sell me. Has that been the case for you with, uh, your distributor partner?

No, not at all.

What gets them to pay attention to you? What do you do to get, uh, Badger? And I think you were the Frank's Badger kind of deal. So how do you get them to pay attention to you?

You build relationships with your reps and your brand manager and make sure that you are giving them the leads that you have. You, you work into your budget, the promos that you're able to do for your, for your stores and for your bigger accounts, right? Like you gotta know your cost of goods. You gotta know how much you're paying them. You gotta know how much you're making, what you need to have in your—

You know your cost of goods?

Yeah. Don't you, don't, doesn't everybody?

No. God, no.

That's why we could do this. We had our 3-year go-to-market plan that we looked at. Now, am I hitting everything on what I projected when we opened 3 years ago? No, but now I have the information and now I can replug in those numbers and now I can keep moving again. Right?

Man, some people didn't know how to, I mean, no offense to anybody because I get it, but this working pricing backwards and forwards, like what is your competitive set? Like, For instance, like, who do you, do you know who your competitive set is? Who do you compete against in the marketplace?

Oh yeah. I mean, locally I'm with Scentsy, I'm with Kind Oasis. On a larger scale, I'm with, you know, Recess, Gia. Let's see, other functional beverages like, um, Kin, Kin and Kind. No, not Kin and Kind. You know, there's just, there's a lot of them out there and it's crowded. So I guess that would be the other hard part. You come in thinking that your brand is the best. Everyone's gonna love your drinks. You've got a great product. Yes, you do. And anybody who's a celebrity has way more visibility than you do. People like a good story, but you have to tell it. You have to get it out there. And that's a challenge. It is not easy.

All right. So we got some places coming on here and then we'll get, get some deeper questions coming. I don't know. You wanna take Cogan? He has about 15 of 'em on there, Adam.

Yeah, I got you. Good to see you, Gugs. He said, love seeing the beverage being poured. Sober Market, SOBR, is one of our most important DSD and retail partners in Canada. They're opening non-alch stores inside Walmart Canada locations, which I think about like the, like Hy-Vee, for example, has like the health section, which is where you can go to get, which is funny 'cause you can go and find like organic stuff there, but you can also just find like like gut rot energy drinks, which I'm like, this is a wonderful combination of shit. He said Nanak here is staying and growing like a melting forest. Thanks for the pun there, folks. A lot of Canada in the house. Richard Mona is also in Vancouver. He said he healed on bone broth this week. Wants some more. I think, I mean, Midwesterners love savory and comfort food. I think THC soup is next. You gotta, you gotta keep that one in your back pocket.

Hey, keep this quiet here, man. We're gonna do a collab here. You could do that right at the, right at the, the, your, um, establishment. I have a, a soup ready. You gotta actually, I drink a lot of bone broth, believe it or not. When I don't feel well, get gastritis, I'm just, I'll just have bone broth.

It really helps.

Yeah. Uh, really?

And then, uh, Ryan, Ryan joining us this morning as well said, no way. Yeah. I, again, it's been mentioned on this show several times, but A, it always kills me when I have founders who, or brand owners who I work with, who Despite being wonderful people, and I'm not like, my energy level is moderate, right? Like, I think I'm a fairly positive person, but I'm also not the like rah-rah all day, every day, right? Somebody has to be though, right? Like somebody has to wear that hat. And, and this is the other side of it is whether you are that person or not. So many brand owners and I pick on him all the time because it's a good example, called me after he had been at production. Like he was on site at a co-packer and said, hey, I'm at production, but I would love your help in, in working on some of the ops of my brand. I said, that's great. You're at production. Surely you've got an understanding, like a thorough understanding of your cost of goods, your margins, e-commerce, retail distribution. He's like, yeah, I really need to work on that. What now? You're, you're making product and you have no idea what the numbers are gonna be?

What's a good, uh, Adam, this is for you. Maybe Adam, Amy, you can answer too. So I talked to a lot of RTDs. I mean, everybody has come out with RTD, hemp-based, functional. We talk to a lot of them every week, as you know. What's a good can cost? Like, what is a good can cost? Like all in, like who cares what you guys would think?

Well, so I'm gonna— Amy said some things that make me assume, strongly assume that her numbers are gonna come out under this because her and her partner have done the difficult work of mitigating costs wherever possible. Normally when I think about either a non-alc or these days a THC-infused beverage, if we're talking about, you know, landed all in, if you can be somewhere between $1 and $1.20 to start, like first, first production or first few productions, first year or two, you're not in an awful spot. Might be a little higher than that. Might be somewhere in like the mid-90s if you're really good and you're doing decent volumes. But normally that's what I see based on what Amy's telling me. If I had to guess and the way she's shaking her head, she's probably closer to like 85 cents, 80, somewhere in there. Am I close?

Some of, some of the lines we use more expensive ingredients than other people. So that's kind of a problem. I'm closer to a bucket can. Okay.

Yeah.

That's good though. I mean, it's, yeah, I got some folks I've worked with. They're like $2.75. I'm like, how are you at $2.75? And you know who I'm talking about. And, uh, I'm like, like, we got, you know, that's just not going to fly. You know, we got to find you a better opportunity here for getting rid of it.

Well, and so let's, let's talk about this if you're willing to share it, Amy. Okay. So a buck a can, are you, because again, people ask me all the time, hey, what do my margins need to be? And my shoot from the hip number, because again, ops guy, right? Like I don't go out and sling this stuff. Right. And, and I don't, I don't make the deal. Right. So like, hey, what do my margins need to be? And I'm like, well, you'll get people's attention if you can give 'em 30 to 40%, right? Would you say that that's kind of the window you guys are, are either falling in or trying to fall in?

Uh, 30% is what we do with our distributor.

It's 30 to the distributor, 30 to the retailer. At the end of the day, it seems to be the, uh, the price of poker as we move forward.

Now that's half my business. When I sell directly from my taproom, I'm getting that cut, right? And we negotiate That I can still have self-distribution accounts too. So I don't have to do everything through them. And the e-commerce is also good for us. We do $8 flat rate shipping, which most of the time works out for us, but some of the times it's a little bit better for the buyer and I'm still selling directly. So that's where we are right now.

Yeah. I, Ryan and I, so Halliman's in the comments talking about, you know, $2.75, send them our way, we can help, which is true. But we have a group, they just signed on yesterday.

Adam knows who they are. He's talked to them.

We had a group who just signed on. Ryan said payment landed yesterday, I think, who, you know, nice folks that are out on the West Coast, really nice people. I've had their product. It's good. I'm staring at a carton of it right now. But they're, every time we talk to them, yeah, we opened a new distributor.

Why?

Well, they're, we're going to get into this market. Okay.

Why?

Right? And it's just this, there's all this excitement and I'm going, to what end? Like what, what margin? Your costs? I know what your costs are. They haven't increased.

I love when Amy, Amy said, hey, look, when we're ready, we'll go to the next state, right? Build an inch wide and a mile deep. And I was at MBWA and I had this brand called Copa Tequila Cocktails, a guy named Nico. And, you know, I'd done some business with Adam on a technology platform, believe it or not. Anyway, that he invested in for his like, uh, gig workers or whatever that I'm involved in. But anyway, I wanted to introduce Nico to Adam. So I take Nico to Adam and Adam goes, Nico, nice to meet you. And where are you at? And Nico goes, Jersey. He says, well, why are you here? And Nico goes, well, I'm trying to find distribution. And Adam goes, well, how many accounts are you in in New Jersey? He goes, 150. And Adam goes again, well, what's your opportunity? Like how many accounts can you be in? And Nico goes, 1,000. He goes again, why are you here?

Yeah.

You have your opportunities at 1,000 because if you go open up Florida, you're gonna have to chase your P&L the next year because you haven't built the base of the business, the reorders, the velocity. No one knows who you are, the whole bit. And then, then Nico comes back and says, well, it's seasonal in Jersey. When it gets cold, no one's buying my product. It's an RTD. And Adam stops him and says, do you sell on-premise? And Nico goes, no. And he goes, and Adam goes, it's always sunny and 70 on-premise. So the point is, is like what you're doing and building your brand is exactly right. I'm not saying it's wrong. And to be fair, Adam actually looked over at Surfside and he goes, those guys did it differently. They had a lot of money behind them. They went a mile wide, an inch deep, but they had a lot of money. If you're going to do that, you better have a lot of money to do it operationally, the whole bit. And most brands don't. They start like you, they, you know, they bootstrap it. And they build it. So that's really hats off to you and what you're doing. I'm curious on this. This comes up at every client I talk to. They still sign up. We have a national boots on the street agency, as you know, Amy.

Yes.

And people wanna come, you know, have us represent the brand. When you were building your brand, I mean, like, like how long did it take you to get like your first, like first account, your first 5 accounts, your first 10 accounts? Like how long did that take? Please give an honest answer if you can.

Yeah. Well, we We signed the lease on this space in May of 2023, and we renovated it ourselves. Everything but the lights and the plumbing, Paul, my business partner, did. And I helped. I ripped up floor, I cleaned, I painted. I mean, like we did all that. So then when we opened, and this is a great story, when we opened the taproom, I had no canned product. We just had kegs. Paul was mixing them in the back. And what we did was we, um, we opened on an art festival weekend and we sold our drinks for $5 in these aluminum cups. And everybody came in, it was a hot weekend, first weekend of September, and bought a tap cup. And they're walking around with these, they're aluminum recyclable, and you can bring them back, you get a dollar off here. So that was our big launch. And again, it was, it was just the kegs that we were making in the back. And then we finally got on the co-packer schedule and we had canned product maybe by November of that year. And that's when I could start wholesaling. We were canning things in drink local cans, just like a brewery does.

Yeah.

But then when we finally got, and this is to the hard point, of course we wanted cans in, in our cooler the weekend that we opened, but everything got kicked down the road, right? Like this is just normal business. So I would say if we got our first canned product from the co-packer in November, I made my first wholesale accounts like at the end of that month.

Okay.

I, um, First, you got your first account in a month?

Yes. The month that I had cans and here's why people saw us. And so they had already been reaching out to me, but I had been making connections with other people about our brand. And then I could reach back out to them and say, hey, I have product to sell. Do you want some? And I remember somebody who sang in the choir with us when we were first dating and married passed away. And I drove to La Crosse from Wausau for that funeral, but I delivered 3 different accounts on the way. Right. I mean, like, that's how we had to do it.

So you were hand-selling this through networking and your first month you got 3 accounts.

Yeah. And then by December, that's when I hit 5 to 10 and people were reordering.

And your 60 days, then 5 to 10.

Yep. And then January, February, March, I mean, I was driving to Door County, I was driving to Appleton. That's when it really escalated. And then I remember, and I would I would talk about it on my socials. Like, oh, we got 2 more accounts today. And I tagged that business, right? Now you can get Forward Beverage here. And then by, um, April I had 53 accounts.

Okay. So, so November, December, January, February, March, April, 6 months, 53 accounts. I think that's damn good, by the way.

Thank you.

I think so too.

I think so too.

Yeah. Because I told Adam, I am not a beverage business person. I'm not a salesperson. I'm a musician.

Were you getting repeat purchases on those 53? Were you getting people like reordering?

Yes, so many purchases on those 53. Absolutely.

So many, so Amy, so many brands like, hey, I wanna get into 1,000 accounts. I'm like, why? Are they gonna reorder it without like movement or velocity or activating it? And those 53 accounts you got, what did you do to get them to reorder? Did you go back and visit them? Like, how did you get the brand to move on?

Call or email to check in, or they would reach out to me because the reason I got into those 53 accounts was because my customers and fan bases were asking for me. They would say, hey, can you carry this brand? Hey, have you heard of this product? So I had people asking for me. I had people drinking me on premise, buying me off the shelves, and then I would follow and re— and they would reorder with me or they would reach out again because it's moving and they wanted it.

Wow. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that story. I think it was really important cuz we talked to so many brands and I, I talk about this. They, they, they will land with a broker and we're not brokers, but they'll land with a broker. broker and they'll stick with them for a couple months and they'll get upset and they'll go to the next broker, the next broker, next broker. The problem is, and Adam, you're going to say it, what did broker 1 through 3 do before broker number 4 got to the brand?

I mean, they laid the foundation.

They laid the foundation. And you just shared what you did to lay your foundation of 53 accounts. And obviously you've built that and you got a distributor interested in you because you did that work. And I think people really need to hear that. Now, I do, I'm gonna bring a couple of things up on the screen here. So Josh has sent a question here, says factoring profit and reach, if you could pick your preferred percentage between distribution versus DTC taproom business, what would it be?

70.

I'd like to be doing taproom and 30% distribution.

And but I also recognize my market. We opened in Wausau because we were here and the opportunity to be able to afford a storefront was here. This is not my target audience. This is my test market and I'm proving that my taproom is profitable. Therefore, I think it's repeatable. So if I'm in Minneapolis or if I'm in Madison or if I'm in Milwaukee with more people who are looking for products like this, I know that I'm going to have better numbers. But we do everything from our taproom is much better for us. All right.

And then, um, Alicia, and then we're going to— Adam, you can ask the very important question of Amy that we ask everybody. I think I gave her the answer to the test already because she was was asking me last night, what kind of questions you gonna ask? Hopefully I hit all the questions. I, I'm like, we, we just go with the flow. It's just like, like having coffee with Adam and Sam and Amy. The, uh, the lesson, uh, Alicia says the lesson with this for, in a marker founder, our maker founder is organic streams of revenue Amy has. She has just given invaluable lessons to other brands.

Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I love, I love talk, we love talking to founders. It seems like all founders are givers. They like to share with other people. Do you believe that yourself? Do you believe like you're a giver? You like to help other people on their journey?

Almost to a fault. Like I have been paying people to help me work the taproom when I probably should have stayed working myself, but I was 9 months pregnant. Right. So that's what we had to do to survive. So yes, generous. And then founders will know this too. And small business owners, everybody wants to ask for donations. Everybody wants to ask for help, even if they haven't tried your brand or tried your product. So we, we choose what we love, right? Like we were at the children's museum last night because they had a big fundraiser and we've got 4 kids. You bring something to town, we are going to support you. There's a local gardens that, you know, we donate to because our kids love going to camp there. Things that we believe in that make the community better. Yes, 100% will always help you out. But there's a lot of people who will come and ask for things even though they've never tried your product and you just have to smile and grin it and bear it, right? So we donate when we can, but we don't say yes to everybody or everything.

Well, truly what you've shared today has been invaluable. So we have a, we've, for the last 10 minutes, this is a, this is a much deeper question that we want to ask you and we'll get into it. So Adam, you take the question.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, very simply, what is the difference between success and failure?

Well, failure is just not getting it right the first time. It doesn't mean it's the end and that doesn't mean it's over. I think success looks like, um, being able to provide for my family and to give back to the community. And we are still doing that. And we're going to continue to do that until we get really, really big.

What keeps you going?

That I created something out of nothing with my husband, who's my business partner and best friend. And the advice that my mentor gave me was, you want to quit? You can quit tomorrow. Right? Like, I just have to do it. It's too good of an idea not to do it. Right. And we already have the metrics and the success of like, we've gotten this far. So that keeps me going.

What can stop you?

Not finding childcare for my 8-month-old. That's been a real, real issue. But guess what?

I'm assuming your business partner helps there in a way.

He helps with a numerous amount of things, but like, I'm still feeding our baby, right? What I do find is that I've gotten good at doing things during nap time. And I've gotten good at doing a lot of things one-handed or with a kid in tow. Like I still go to cold storage and pick up cases. I was doing that 8 months pregnant. I'm doing it every week, right? Because the stuff needs to move. So.

What motivates you?

My kids.

You're out for fire.

Yeah. My kids, having them see their parents work so hard on something and like 98% of the time get along, right? I mean, we have very different personalities and very different strength sets, but we're not fighting. We're not arguing. We can have disagreements. We can have differences of opinions. We do have a rule where we don't talk about business at the dinner table. So if we ever slip, sometimes the kids will call us out on that. But no, I'm very, very lucky in that sense that I've got a great partner.

That's great. I love that you refer to your— and he is your partner. It's funny, I refer to my wife as my wife and my partner as my work wife, or she refers to me as her work husband. They both pick on me too, so I can't win. I'm in a losing situation.

That's good.

Unfortunately. Okay. Is there anything that we discussed today that we missed or anything that we talked about that I want to talk about that we want to bring up that we missed?

Hmm.

I think just like the quality of our beverages and what sets us apart in the marketplace. So yeah, there's a lot of pretty cans. There's a lot of things that, to be honest, some of them taste like shit. Like I can't believe people don't taste what they're putting in cans. It's terrible.

Especially if they leave it out too long, by the way.

Gross. So not only does my stuff taste good, but we designed these products to be clean, to be low in sugar and not filled with artificial sugars. Because as the research comes out, erythritol, stevia, monk fruit sweetener, all of these things, even if they're natural and plant-based, there's always some kind of negative consequence down the road as we're studying these ingredients more and more. So we'll use a little real sugar, like agave, molasses, even just a simple syrup if we want a little more sweetness in something, or Paul will just create the flavors from the fruits, from the extracts themselves and not add anything into it. And I think that's very unique. And that's what drinkers are looking for. They care about what they put in their bodies.

Um, how do people find you?

People find us. I mean, the on-premising is huge, right? You see us and you have us and then you're like, well, I saw, and I know where that is. So that's how they find us. They can find us on our website at www.forwardbev.com. And they can find us at all festival food locations. We're at 43 locations in Wisconsin. And on our website, we also have a map of where we're located with pins.

Did I get that right? www.forwardbev.com?

forwardbev.com.

I earned my pay today. And then they can find you on LinkedIn too. I think your company—

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. Amy Yonser, founder of Forward Beverage, and so is Paul.

Okay. What's next for you guys?

We're gonna figure out how to get this taproom a little, I would say it's like 80% running by itself, but I want it 100% off so that we can focus on what we're gonna pivot to if and when these bills don't change. Oh, um, the nitro cans are what's next for us. It's just a question of whether we're gonna put the THC hemp into it or if we're gonna take it out and lean into the functional.

That's, uh, I think you definitely should lean into functional and some other types of adaptogens within your products. That's what I would advise you to do. I don't know. What do you think's gonna happen with this hemp bill? What's your, what are your, what are you hearing?

In Wisconsin, I think that the ban will take effect in November, but that when everybody comes back in April of '27, they'll pass some regulation. So I think it will go away in the state.

Oh, really interesting. So you're prepared for that though? Is that because it's conservative or, I'm not going political, but it's just—

I think it's general. Nobody can let the other side get away with it. So there's several bills presented, but they can't agree on something that's gonna support businesses, consumers, you know, even the 3-tier system. There's a bill sent, you know, that way that nobody can get enough votes on. So I think that's what's going on.

It's interesting. I, I saw something in, uh, communications. I know you obviously know Diana Eberlin and folks, I'm assuming. There's like a 2-year extension or something, or a 3-year extension.

That's what has been suggested. They wanna extend this national 2018 hemp bill for 3 years so that we have more time time to figure out the regulations.

Yeah. Do you think that'll happen?

I don't know. I don't trust a lot of compromise happening here in our government right now. It did. They just, they can't get it together.

What do you think about age gating and, uh, self-regulation in order to get things pushed through?

They absolutely should age gate this. We actually say 18 and up here in our taproom, because if you can vote and if you can sign up in the military, we think you can have 5 milligrams of THC plant based hemp in your drink. But when the laws change, we will change right along with it.

Got it. And the 3-tier system, do you see that as a great place to regulate distribution and sales of product? What's your feeling on that?

They already have the system set up, right, with the TTB. It is an intoxicating substance, so it should be regulated by someone. And that has already proven, you know, to be a system that works. It's difficult to play in that space as a small brand because there's a lot of national brands that are gonna to just have more money and more energy and more time to fight for that shelf space and play in that. But if that's where it goes, that's where it goes. And we'll figure that out.

You know, but what you said at the very beginning is people always want to come to us and play in the ocean. They want California, Texas, they want New York, they want Illinois and Florida, right? I mean, a lot of our boots on the ground are in those states because everyone wants to go to the states, but those states are expensive.

Yes.

To play in. And we always talk about tertiary markets like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey. There's so many places you can build a brand. I mean, you can build a $100 million business in 2 states. I'm sure you have. I don't know if you've done the numbers. Look at your number of doors in Wisconsin alone, and then look at your neighbor, Minnesota. You can build a big business just in those 3 states. And if you want to float down to Illinois, way, a little bit of cost to play down there.

Right.

But even if you get outside of Chicago and go down to downstate, you can build a nice business. You don't have to be— my point is you don't have to be national. You don't have to play in the ocean. You can play in rivers and streams and be very successful.

Yes. And that's again why we named the brand that we did, because we saw this opening for a Wisconsin-based and it—

I love it. I love it. Did I miss anything else? And I asked you two to remain on the line, but let's, let's just go around the circle like we always do. So we'll start with Adam and then we'll go to Amy and I'll close it down.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think for me, you know, it's nothing wild and outlandish. It's just the same stuff we always talk about. It's just great to have another phenomenal example of like what happens when you take a very thoughtful and proactive approach to things and get creative. And, you know, knowing the chemistry and being able to do a lot of it yourself is very helpful, but that And take away from obviously just the general business minutia of knowing your numbers and being able to talk to people and those things. So yeah, I just applaud you and it was wonderful to hear your story.

Thanks, Adam. I wanna thank you both for having me on. It was great to talk about my business and my brand and our plans and the challenges and difficulties of starting your own beverage brand and your business. But we have some real opportunity and we're really excited to move the beverage industry forward.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm going to flash on the screen how to find you again. So www.fordbev.com, please reach out to Amy. And then it's Paul, right? Paul is the mad scientist. He's the Oz behind the scenes making these drinks, I'm assuming. So I want to call Paul. I was, I was actually excited to see Paul. So maybe next time we can have him on.

We'll do a round 2 with just him and then I'll stay home with the kids and then you can ask all of your science questions to him. That'd Awesome. He'd love it.

Yeah, 100%. And by the way, you're alumni now, so you're always welcome back.

Thank you.

To Drink Up. We ask you if you can join us in the chat. You, I tell everybody this, people can pop in. I would love to get more pop-ins. So in other words, you have the link to get in. That link doesn't change. So if you ever want to just pop in and you see something really interesting, I think it'd be really cool to actually have a few people in the hemp cannabis industry Um, and maybe some co-packers or something, Adam, and just have like a round table. I think we need to schedule that. I'm gonna put that on you, by the way. See if you can coordinate like getting people like Amy, Jeff, Joey Gamer. Like it would be interesting just to have like a powwow on this whole thing. Do like an hour or maybe like, what do you call it? Like some type of workshop or something.

Sam, I do gotta hop. I got another, I have a Saturday, uh, client call. So Amy, it was a pleasure. I will talk to you guys later.

Yeah.

Are you 100% uploaded? So let me stop. We'll say goodbye to everybody. I'm going to stop. Make sure everything uploads. Don't, don't disconnect. All right. Bye everybody.

Yeah.

It looks like I'm uploaded.