The breakup letter that backfired with Ella Parlor

See, he does. See, he brings up that. That's interesting.

Welcome and good afternoon, everybody. We're here on a— what day is today? Wednesday. It's Wednesday. Wednesday afternoon with Sam, as always, and our guest today, the incomparable Ella Parlor. Welcome, Ella.

Hola.

Hi.

It's so nice to see y'all. Happy, happy hour. You said afternoon, but I'm going to pretend it's evening. I'm ready for my happy hour.

If I hadn't been running call to call, I'd have gone downstairs and got a beer, but all I had was a Coke in the fridge up here. Well, so before we get into it, and all I'm just going to tell you right now, this one's going to go fast because I've been waiting for this one. I've got high tolerance in my Amazon on card. Like I've been waiting for this one. Well, we'll start with our shoutouts to our sponsors. Jay Williams. Sam failed today. He does not have his obligatory Freebird can, but shoutout to Jay. Sam and Alicia at Bev Assets and Frontline.

And is that it? Just Bev Assets, man. Let's go with Bev Assets right now.

Perfect. At Bev Assets, Ryan Hallinan and On the Rocks Advisors. I think I've spoken to Ryan 4 times today, so I hope he's listening. And then myself and Alias Advising. So with that, I think that's our list. Ella, welcome. Truly very happy to have you. Where do you wanna start? Is there something you wanna tell the world?

Yeah, I actually need something. I wanna get something off my chest, which is a question for you, Sam. It's about Freebird. I wanna take it back to the sponsors because I love sponsors, right? And, uh, I have to know, how are they capitalizing on the current Freebird trend for FIFA and USA? Like, how are they capitalizing on that? Like, this is their moment right now. Everybody is posting about Freebird.

Yeah, he, well, so first of all, which is wild about this, and Jay can correct me, but he has the rights to Freebird. He trademarked that, which is amazing that Lynyrd Skynyrd did not trademark Freebird, which, and you can find that podcast. We had Jay on what, 6 months ago, Adam? I can't remember. But, uh, they, they're capitalizing, I think, more on this, like who Jay Williams is. Quite frankly, I think he's the brand. And how he kind of started on LinkedIn. I don't know if you follow him on LinkedIn, but just kind of a quirky guy that would just say things that you think but would never say. He actually says it on LinkedIn right there. And then they started growing, got into United in Georgia and they built it. And then they got into like Publix and started expanding in the Southeast. Now they're going into Walmart, but they started in the Southeast in Georgia outside of Atlanta. And, uh, Jay, probably correct me, but he was a real estate guy. I think he toyed around after that, you know, um, into getting into the beverage business. But he definitely, he capitalizes off, I think, um, how would you say it best, Adam? I think the people's, uh, belief of just being free and speaking your mind.

Love it. I think that's great. And it's a water brand, right? I just want to confirm.

Water in a can, man. He's going right after Liquid Death. You know, and he's no bones about it.

Shit. Yeah. He's, uh, yeah. I mean, what, Bert Kreischer was doing something with him recently and then he's got the NASCAR stuff, like the, the, which we all know. I mean, yeah.

His driver's winning all kinds of stuff and his driver takes the bottle front and center. It's like, boom. Like, it's, it's amazing. So, and I don't wanna call it, you know, it's just timing, but, uh, I mean, um, Jay Williams puts himself out there. You know, center stage.

I really love that. It, I really, and, and that's why I do, I want, I just gave him, we got extra airtime. We might have to send a new PO for that. But, and genuine and genuinely, like, it's, it's always inspiring when a founder really is willing to take the bull by the horns, become the name and brand, because ultimately, whether it's behind closed doors with your distributors or it's social media and showing behind the scenes, you as a founder, and I have to explain this often, you are the face of the brand. You have to talk to someone. And show you.

Isn't the founder the best salesman on the team? Would you agree on that statement?

Could be. Should be.

To a certain point. I, I think that I always say new levels, new devils. There does get a point where I have the opportunity to work with founders where you're kind of prying certain things from their cold, dead fingers going, all right, you're, you're a little too close to it. You're, it's your baby, but we gotta let the baby grow. Like we, we, we, we can't have a baby toddler forever. Right?

Yeah.

And so I think that up until a certain point, absolutely. Nevertheless, they should always be the number one brand ambassador. And one of the most inspiring founders for me on that front, who continually stands with his brand through and through, is, uh, Richard Branson. I think that regardless of the vertical, he very much leads with a deep, tremendous pride that he takes with him with every Virgin venture and going from music label to airline, uh, real estate, uh, and then of course now a cruise ship. It's, it's very interesting. So I'm, I'm very inspired by that model and I think that he was ahead of the curve. But nowadays, if you're going to be a founder, uh, the expectation is you are gonna have to get in front of a couple cameras.

Yeah. 1,000%. Well, let's get into you and this wacky world we call beverages and, uh, Maybe tell us a little bit about your journey and, uh, kind of where you started and, you know, what the journey was to get you where you're at today. So tell us a little bit about Ella.

Yeah.

And so everybody can learn about, uh, you. I think that you're the first type of person that we've had in terms of like a, I mean, I'm just explaining, like you work with brands and you advise brands and you help them come to market and you help them with their journey, I'm assuming.

Absolutely. So I, I was corporate for the first 10 years of my career. My entire career has been with beverage, which is so exciting to think about. So if you don't count those restaurant days in the beginning when I was a teenager, right when I was 18, I started working for Red Bull. They are headquartered in Southern California where I'm from. And I love to talk. It's just so interesting to me because in 2008, when I started there, Energy drink wasn't a category, so it was. It's very. There were there were literally four SKUs when I walked in the door. There was sugar-free, original, 8.4 ounce and 12 ounce, and that was it. That there there those were your options. And to be a part of several of their first ever innovation launches across sizes, flavors, variations, expressions was absolutely incredible. I got access to some of the most brilliant marketing minds in the globe, and to be a fly on the wall in those rooms. was incredible. I'm, I feel very, very honored.

So, and that brand, they basically got into people's psyche, right? It's like, it's like, it's not about Red Bull, it's about the experience, right? It's like, I'm gonna go jump off cliffs or go parachuting, right? That's kind of the DNA of them, or what is it?

I wish, I think that magic, it's a myriad of so many things, but what I will say is that if my career started at a different brand, I don't know that I would even start with that. It, I just think that like, it's still on my resume, Like if someone asks for it and it, it's like, why would you have something from that long ago on your resume? But it, there's something about that brand that it's just, it's an anchor. It's, it's, you, you wanna talk about it.

You have— You're really scaring me when you say that long ago, cuz my long ago is like in the early '80s.

Well, they say that your resume should only be 10 years.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm, I'm past, I'm, I'm, I'm stretching past, like it's been more than 10 years since my tenure at Red Bull.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm really stretching. I got, I got 40 in this, this bad boy. So it's good to have 2 of you on with me.

No, just the resume. Not the miles are great. The, we love, we love mileage. We love experience, but good, good save, Ella.

Good save.

Oh my, wait, are you kidding me? I am a Scotch girl. Okay. I like older. My husband is older. It is not a secret. The older, the better I say. Mm-hmm. So yes, I'm very big on appreciating seasoned and experience. And again, back to my Red Bull experience. You know, being 18 and part-time and just observing a lot was, was a really great way. And then right when I turned 21, because somewhat of the Red Bull vodka craze and Young's Market being an incredible distributor partner, long story short, I ended up jumping over to work outta the Ketel One headquarters when I was 21 years old. So, um, I think my beverage career is, is just a little unusual in that, you know, starting at this iconic brand and then moving over to BevAlc was a very natural transition. And my book really articulates the natural progression of every single role. And I think a big part of that I would attribute to the fact that I was— I grew up in Southern California. It's hard to grow up in Southern California.

So, you're working down in Orange County then with Carl Nolet? I mean, I rode in one of his cars, by the way.

Which one? There are 3 Carls now. And guess what? Baby Carl's not big.

Junior. It was Junior. Um, he was bigger in life. We had a Diageo meeting. Down in Orange County. That's when Diageo had purchased the brand. And he picked me up in a, oh, it's a custom-built car, was blue convertible at the airport and took me to the meeting. We had all like the Diageo presidents there, you know, for this like big top-to-top with Super Value. And everybody was, it was me like the national account manager, you know, with all these bigwigs. But it was pretty awesome. But they, he, I guess he collects cars or something, but Yeah, absolutely.

Well, and I would've been the little tiny, uh, intern probably setting up the event or sweating my BTW off.

Maybe, maybe you were there.

Setting, resetting the entire grocery store to make it look like it was perfectly merchandised. I, I wasn't there during the acquisition of Kettle One, but, uh, it was a, it was a, it, Nollet family, so great. I have a really embarrassing Carl Nollet story. Well, I just gave away, gave it away. Nevermind. I complained to a random man about, uh, the AC in the office, like in I was making small talk in the elevator and I was like, you couldn't tell it's so hot outside. I have to wear a sweater. It's freezing at my desk. And then I come back from lunch and these 2 guys came, these 2 big AC guys came and fixed it right away. And I said, oh, what? Why did you do that? And they're like, well, when you make a complaint to Carl Nollet that you're, that you're wasting his money with a space heater at your desk when it's 100 degrees outside.

Yeah, he's bigger in life, man. He looked like when I was hanging with him, he's like kind of heavier, but he was like a California surfer, had his family there, and it was a Bentley they picked me up in.

So I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago in California, and they had just done, uh, the NOLA— they had just— Kettle One had just done some activation, uh, the Newport Beach— it's, it's somewhat new, it's, it's, uh, somewhat new festival, like not Newport Beach Wine Festival, something like that, but, uh, the And that's how I found out, like the little, little baby Carl is, is, yeah, like he's, uh, he's working for the company. He's 21. I mean, he worried. I'm like, wait, little Carl is actually now big Carl. And I, it's just, it blows my mind. Yeah.

So that makes sense. Cause he had a couple of his kids there and we were on the beach. I can't remember where we were at, but, uh, it was in 2012 was the meeting.

And yeah, 14 years later, the, he's, yeah. So it's, it's, I, I really, and you know what I will say too, when I transferred, I, I ended up moving, uh, to Alabama to manage the Diageo business out there, which was the worst decision of my life. And I would rather not talk about that chapter unless you really want to know it.

Did you run into Forrest Gump and get some gum, some shrimp?

Gosh, I did. I will say on the note of Forrest Gump and shrimp boats, I did marry, my husband comes from a long line of fishermen. And his brother's name is Bubba.

There you go.

So I do, I do say I love Bubba.

Now we're getting, now we're, this is what's great about this is live, raw, and real, man. We don't hold anything back. Let's get into the nitty gritty.

Yeah, absolutely. But, uh, so I, I started corporate and it was, it was such an opportunity to be with the first 10 years of my career were really with Red Bull and Diageo. And then, uh, I hopped on over working with a craft company through the Anheuser-Busch, uh, distribution network. And then that's when I realized, oh, I'm not as good at my job as I thought I was coming from Diageo where my budget was $12,000 a month, uh, all my relationships disappeared when the money disappeared. And that was very humbling going to beer and having a very large multimillion dollar activation budget to going to a few hundred bucks for coasters. And, uh, that's when I started getting really scrappy and tactical. That was my first real sales job. I had gotten fatigued with, uh, the marketing side being told over and over again that, well, you don't understand sales. You've never done sales. You, you're sales support, right? You're marketing. But, um, you know, this advancement, you know, you, you need to be, you need to understand sales.

And so I said, okay. I love where you're going. You know, I love where you're going with that. You know, just, I just, I'm relating, so keep on going. But when I left corporate, you know, and I, you know, finally left Breakthrough 4 years ago, um, my first place I landed was at Finnegan's. Um, and Finnegan's was a brewery here. They kind of merged with another brewery, but, um, I ended up working with Jackie Berkland. And, uh, it's, that's when you kind of learn how to be scrappy. When you don't have the, you know, millions of dollars behind you, you have to be really creative. So keep on going. This is really good.

Absolutely. I mean, it was, it was humbling, but it was exciting. And, and, I, I think that that job was probably physically most definitely the most grueling on my body because it was, it was beer, right? So you're, you're dealing with kegs.

Were you moving kegs around?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hadn't, I did not have a lot of support. Uh, and, and, and again, you are in a, you also learn that double-edged sword of almost like golden handcuffs from a distribution standpoint when you have a powerhouse distributor, which on the beer side, there are virtually 2, right? You're either in a Miller house or an AB house virtually. Don't kill me, Reyes. And then, um, on the spirit side, you're virtually in one of the, again, that's obviously fragmenting at the moment, but historically it's one of the 2 or 3 big houses per market. Um, The, the, the issue there is, yes, everybody, every retailer, every account works with your distributor, but you're also now competing with that entire book. And so I learned that, I learned a lot more about operating through a distribution network. I learned a lot more about DSD. Convenience stores don't sell a lot of liquor, so I didn't have a lot of experience in that channel. And I, I just got a breadth of experience, but it was grueling. And, um, I mean, I did my time. I really did. I, it was only a year and a half. half in retrospect because I got recruited.

Yeah, but we've all done that. Like, I was at the Coca-Cola Company for about 18 months, right? But that turn taught me something about how that industry works, right? It's like getting an MBA in it. And I just, I decided I don't want to do that. I want to go back to the spirits business. And I tried it again selling food at Kellogg's. I'm like, no, I don't want to do that either. But you see those things, it makes you who you are today, right? So, Your skillset is probably unbelievable what you're describing, the things that you journey you've been on. So I'm assuming you couldn't do what you do now unless you had those experiences, correct?

I would, I would even take it further. I'm addicted to that chaos because it's so easy to get very far removed from it. And the closer you are to the point of purchase and that grueling merchandising, moving product around, like all of the unbeautiful parts of this business happen at the point of purchase. And the further you are away from the point of purchase, The further your strategy is away from reality. So it is a big part of my life is negotiating how I make sure that I stay in retail as much as feasible. Realistically, it doesn't make sense for me to be hitting the street, right? That's not what brands hire me to come in and do. But I do insist on traveling and being in the market before making critical decisions for those markets. It's because there are just so many nuances across channels, brands, categories, distribution route to market. So I'm very grateful for that time because it opened my eyes into the like difficult work. But when you're willing to roll up your sleeves and, and do the difficult work, 'cause it's not new to you, you get a lot more done quickly.

I, I love that. So getting out, I mean, you know, it was funny when I was at, at, at Breakthrough, I sat behind a desk for most of the time I was there. You know, I started out in, you know, running trade development, then I took a co—

corporate role.

And you, and then when the best time I ever had was I'd go out in the marketplace cuz you actually learn what's really happening. Cuz we, the C-suite, and I wasn't a C-suite or I supported the C-suite.

Yeah.

But, but, but, you know, you, you, when you go out in the marketplace and you're communicating to the C-suite, like, okay, here's what's really happening. You may think in your mind, this is how it really works, but this is what your reps really think about you. And this is really what they think about the systems, and this is what the customers are really saying. But you can't do that unless, like you said, you can make some critical decisions, but you can't do that unless you're out there, right? What was like kind of the, like, like, can you share like kind of your learnings that you've had to go back to like a, a client and say, hey, look, you wanted to go this direction, but you have to completely change based on what I just learned?

Anything like that? So you actually, you brought up a really good point about your time at Breakthrough as an executive supporting the C-suite team. So even when you were going into the market with that kind of role, and I've also had a role like that, the, the issue becomes everyone knows who you are, everyone knows who your role is, everyone, you're, you're getting the best route, right? That you're like, oh, like—

They've already planned it out. Like the guy's coming to town, don't mess up.

No, you're not getting the reality. The little-known consultant that nobody's really heard of walks in the door. I can get a lot more intelligence than, I would argue, I would argue that I would be able to get a lot more from your distribution team at Breakthrough as a third-party independent consultant who's more of a neutral party that is brought on again strategically as a support. At the distributor level, not as much. Distributors don't love consultants as much. They get a little cagey around us, but from a brand level, it's actually really, really helpful. And so I absolutely, I've been able to get to the heart of the matter a lot faster on some runarounds where maybe We don't understand why we're not getting execution at a particular retailer, right? And it could be something as innocuous as the SKU just wasn't scanning in the back door and nobody thought to tell the relevant key account manager who could have made sure that that problem was solved. So it keeps getting kicked in the back door, truck takes it back, it's bouncing back and forth, and we just know that the product never landed. And so it's, it's a lot easier to get. I, I've, I think that that's one of my secret superpowers is that I can really navigate through warehouses, backstock very comfortably, and then, you know, make my way back into a board meeting to have, you know, some discussions about where we could be better serving the market.

It's interesting. Well, Adam, you gotta have some questions. Adam's the thinker today. So what's going on, Adam? What do you, what are you thinking?

Well, so I, I told you before we got on, Ella, that I, I was excited for this one because, you know, you're kind of a celebrity in my eyes cuz I constantly get served up your posts. And one of 'em recently, someday over a beer, I want to hear the long-form story of you and your husband. Cuz I've seen that post and I fucking loved it with the, the, we're at the bar and he was like, I want this very specific drink. And then they're like, we don't have it. He's like, Jack and Coke. And you're like, what the fuck? Right?

Well, his brother, there's a Bubba in the family. Yeah, there's a Bubba in the family, right?

All these stories. But the question I have for now, Is related to a more recent post. And it might've even been, might've even been the back cover of your book that I was reading, but it was something about like, you've tried to leave the industry several times.

Oh my gosh. I got so much shit for that one.

Yeah.

Tell me about that.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So people don't understand. I'm pretty transparent. Like even there's a lot where it's like, well, if you just paid attention, you would know, like, it's like, if you just We just, we just looked. I, I'm not, I'm not too hard to follow, but—

Hey, we all tried to escape the industry. So like, this is gonna be really interesting here. You, they gave you crap for trying to leave?

My book. Well, because I was admitting that I've been trying to leave for like 10 years. My book was a breakup letter to the industry. I was truly done. I was done. I was like, I am this, I can't get out. I keep getting good, great paying jobs that are giving me golden handcuffs. I can't get out of this industry. The only way I'll get out is if I write a book. About how messed up this industry is. Then I'll be blackballed and I will never work in this industry again. Like, that'll be my exit.

What is it? What was the, is it the word thesis? What was the thesis of the whole book? What was the premise of it?

We're drinking too much. It's, it was the, the, the idea is, is that as someone who has spent my entire career looking at the psychology of why and how there's a point of, there, there's a purchase point for drinks, whether at the retailer level, distributor level, consumer level, right? As someone who has studied that to a nauseam and invested a lot of time, money, and my career, I was alarmed at the amount that we were drinking and going through inventory during COVID both from a production standpoint, which we now are suffering the aftermath of that overproduction. But it was, it was insane. Women in 2021, for the first time in civilization, were dying and succumbing to alcohol-related diseases under the age of 50. That had never happened before because we were drinking at Society way too much. And I felt a responsibility to say, look, I'm all for everyone. Clearly, I'm all for everyone having a good time. But can we also make space in this industry to have conversations about the impact of the work that we're doing, where we find motivations, and where we ourselves are burnt out because of the unrealistic expectations of the jobs that we're doing, and then the fake lifestyle that kind of portrayed with it. And so, I, I, I thought it was a more challenging piece to kind of say, let me drop, let me light fire and walk away. But what actually ended up happening was it resonated with so many people in the industry. They were like, hell yeah, I've had this experience.

I can—

Can we share?

Hey, Adam, can you share the book so people can see what it is?

Yeah. Yeah.

I got you.

Keep talking. I'll share the link.

Because I'm, I'm, I'm technically challenged. I'm on my Apple. We were talking about the Apple stuff. I, I'm, I'm gonna mess up something. Something will break. So, so you get this book out there. You talk about people were drinking too much. Women are dying for the first time in history under 50, right? You're like challenging the industry to think differently, right?

Yeah.

All right. So keep on going.

And then people were like, we agree and we wanna work with you and we like your mind and we like what you're talking about. We know—

Hey, will you help me sell my brand? This is great.

Yeah. Don't, don't leave the industry. Just leave the big guys. Come work for us. Um, and, and that's really where I, it was confusing at first. Because simultaneously to launching my book and going on a book tour, I was also trying to figure out how I can consult outside of the beverage industry, but I was running up dry. So it was like, and then I have beverage clients knocking at my door and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm supposed to be done with beverage, which is like the whole point of this thing, right?

Yeah.

And so then I just sat with it. I was like, look, I I have clients that are interested in working with me. I can help them. And maybe this is a part of the healing is a redistribution of how, again, a redistribution of how we look at the beverage arena. What can we do to give smaller brands a competitive edge? Leverage someone. Are you kidding me? My, my dog just opened the door and walked into— Go, go, go. Let me get her. She only, she's only done that She's done that, I think, one other time. I'll be right back.

This is what we love about it though, is, uh, this is great. This is, uh, that'll be the main thing. Dog has opened up the door and entered the room. So that is the, uh, perfect.

That's fantastic.

You can have the, the dog can join us.

Oh my God. Well, I, no, no, no, no. She will take over the show. She's wonderful. But she's only done that one other time to me. I know that she can, she, she knows that she can open doors. She can open her own crate. She doesn't because she's obedient, but right now I think she hears me talking and she's getting FOMO. She's like, well, if you're gonna, you're gonna be in a conversation, let me in. I, she just opened the door. I had to lock it. That's, I'm so sorry about that.

All right. So I wanna, so, so let's talk about, so you have these clients, so can you explain to you, like, so I'm a, I'm a new, I'm assuming you work with all shapes and sizes of brands, but it sounds like you like to work with new brands too. So I'm a brand, I come to you, like what services do you provide or Like, I'm gonna, like, I have this aspiration. I'm gonna be the next Tito's. I arrive at you, I'm like, I'm gonna be the next Tito's and I'm gonna be in 1,000 accounts. Like, what do you, like, how do I find you and how does this whole thing work?

Thank you. Um, well, a few things I will say that it, it's taken some time because I've been full-time with my consulting now for 5 years. And, uh, that, that is, I'm still, I'm still learning. I'm still learning what works for, uh, my business and what my ideal client looks like. Uh, I have at one point worked with all shapes and sizes, but after some Bruises and bumps. Uh, I do think that I operate best if an organization is already at, at least $5 million in revenue a year.

I love that.

And really that basic, that baseline is because I had a lot of founders reaching out to me for fundraising, which I absolutely would love to support, but not from a startup scrappy, like I have no proof of concept. I have a really good idea, but give me some money and I'll prove it to you.

Welcome to Adam's world and my world.

Yeah, I bet.

Mm-hmm.

I bet. Mm-hmm. It's, it's like a, it's a lot, but I've just learned that where I can be the most effective, I would say, don't put your money into, you don't need me yet. Invest in a sales team, invest in a street sales team, get some velocity, get some proof of concept, then come back when you have a little bit of space to grow. Because when you're starting up, you don't necessarily need channel strategy. You just need some boxes in, in any store, right?

I mean, there's not a brand and, and I mean, I, uh, India, Uh, maybe, you know, India Robinson, Unbridled. Do you know India?

I don't believe so.

Anyway, she founded a brand. I love her. She's really good. And, uh, honestly, I told her, I said, you know, she has a brother that lives in Dallas. I said, you should just move to Houston. And she's like, she has a great background and you can look her up and does great PR and works with professional athletes and bigger than life. But I said, you should just move to Houston before you hire us and do it yourself. Go get your first 100 accounts yourself. Mm-hmm.

Even temporarily, I've multiple times convinced— sorry, Adam, go ahead.

Please say something.

No, say something.

Well, so my, my, my question was going to be, you know, they're at $5 million in revenue. They bring you in. Do you find that, that most of the time, I know there's, there's multiple answers to this question, but do you find that most of the time when you get brought in at that level, you are generally giving the feedback of like, hey, you're, you're working in the right direction, but we need to be more focused or Fucking, you're going this way and I need you over here. Does that make sense?

I would definitely say it's the former, the first.

Okay.

What I will almost 100% guarantee to anyone that I talk to once we start finalizing the scope of work, because once we start negotiating the scope of work, how I'm gonna work with you, um, what our contract will look like and the, and the money and all of that, that's when things start getting, well, are you gonna do this? Are you gonna do that? And what I always try to explain is that It really doesn't matter what you write in that scope of work because what you think you need right now is not gonna actually be what you need once I get in there.

Sure.

And so you can, like, it's fine. You can, you can try to get really tedious, right? But ultimately, and, and it's kind of a fun exercise for me at the end when, uh, 'cause I try to make all of my retainers at 90 days. I really try to stay within that container, um, for a myriad of reasons. Uh, I was given this advice by a couple people that I really trust and it It's, it's really transformed my business. But at the end of the 90 days to say, okay, now look at the scope, look what we did and how happy you are, but look at the scope, right? Like we were kind of, we were kind of off. And, and, and I, I love that too because again, it, it really just, even for me, it's different every time. Sure. And it's, it's still so bespoke. I would love to standardize and scale and step and repeat and become some huge, you know, consulting firm of 1,000 Ellas. Like, like, sure. Right. You talk about scalable scalability and, and how do I, I, I've, I've gone back and forth about hiring other people and getting support, but ultimately where I thrive is when I'm really diving into the business and then I'm helping make strategic decisions. And then we decide if we need to bring on some manpower. But how I scale that, I, I haven't unlocked that myself quite yet. But the 90-day container has absolutely been a godsend. So for anybody out there who's looking to consult, it took me way too long to figure that piece out. Nobody had really given me that advice. That I recalled. And that 90-day like retainer contained is just, it, it's a really great way to motivate you to get the job done faster. And it gives the client, it just sets expectations for everybody.

Can you give an example kind of what you like? So I, I, I've come to you, I've taught, Adam's got my brand in the can. I got the lid, I'm ready to go. Like, when do I like employ you? Am I like, I guess I'm, I've already done some business already. I'm like, I'm at $5 million, I guess. That's right.

That's why the $5 million came out. Cause I learned, I was like, Yeah.

So I've already gone through, like, I've already talked to Adam. I'm doing a business. Like, what do you do in that 90 days for folks? Or is it just, is it varied? Or is there a certain formula that you use? Or like, what do people get for that?

So I am, what I'm doing right now, and I've only been doing it the last probably 18 months, but I document everything I do now because my intent, my intention is to create a system and see if I can find a formula. And that's where I was saying, As of today, I still have to bespoke every single, every single time. There is nothing that has been step and repeat. And I guess I would give you the example of like how when you go into a grocery store, they always remerchandise, right? There are so many things within the beverage ecosystem that shift that cascadingly have an effect. Um, and a big one right now that is so exciting for me is all the shifts that are happening with the RNDC, Reyes transition market. There are, there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of aftermath. Uh, and California was kind of that first that we saw the aftermath and we'll continue to see it. But, um, there are a lot of shifts that come with that for every distributor, for every retailer who's impacted by those shelf spaces and, and those closures. And it's not a, exactly a given, no matter what a contract says, that Reyes will just be able to step and repeat and like smoothly take over for RNDC. That's not how it goes. Every other distributor's gonna try to get that. that space in that interim. And so because there are so many transitions that we are at the mercy of in the beverage space from capital, right, which was extremely tight last year, we only saw, I think at the end of the year, maybe 19 beverage mergers and acquisitions finalized last year. So capital is tighter than typical. All of these have cascading effects. So it really comes down to what are your goals? I'm less worried about what you think you wanna hire me for. And I liken myself to a plumber. You don't know plumbing. If you knew plumbing, you wouldn't have this clog. So instead of trying to tell me how to fix the clog, why don't you tell me what you're trying, what, what you're hoping to have in the next, uh, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months? What does your planning look like? What do you think you know? Um, and then I can create a roadmap to get you there and then talk about how we start doing that with the assets you already have. One of the things that I really try to focus on with clients is not forcing them to invest further. I think a lot of consultants will come in and say, Well, if you get this system, if you just change your CRM, and it's like, well, you're not really good at your job. You just know how to sell Google, or you just know how to sell Salesforce. And Salesforce is a really, really, really great tool. But if all I'm going to do is suggest that you bring in Salesforce, then why are you paying me? Like you could just Google that yourself. But if you're looking for someone who can optimize the fact that you already invested in Salesforce and you don't think you're getting your ROI, I've been working in Salesforce for many years, so I can create systems for you, dashboards, things like that. But it's more about understanding the commercial systems that are impacting the Um, and that's where it becomes really bespoke. And then understanding like what their goals are. Is it more channels? Is it, is it more distribution channels? Is it, is it more volume? Why is that? Um, and then also figuring out their motivations. So the soft skills, like, why are you here? Why did you do this? Why'd you build this beverage brand, Sam?

Me? Because I want to be the next Tito's. I saw Tito's is worth a billion dollars.

Oh my gosh. So someone said that to me. They want to be the next Tito's. I'm like, well, the first thing you'd have to do is be Tito. Are you ready to be Tito?

Right.

Do you know who Tito is? Like, because again, on the note of brand and founders, like Tito is, is an incredible example of like a founder who really took a brand and ran. And so if someone says that, I'm like, no, no, you're, you're talking about money. Yeah, we all want money. Like, what do you mean? We all, sure, I want money too.

Yeah.

But if you're serious about becoming the next Tito's, what does that mean? You wanna be the next vodka in that vodka category? We know vodka's saturated. Tito's now can't sell to anyone because the conglomerates have to sell off so much of their volume to justify it not being a gin. So now he's kind of stuck. Like, is that what you wanna be? Is stuck?

Like, is that— Really?

That's really new information to me. So he had an opportunity several years ago to sell and now he can't.

I'm saying that a little hyperbolically, but yeah, I mean, virtually if you look at the numbers, right, for someone to fully own that billion-dollar organization for a vodka, Right? With no other innovations, they would have to relinquish their whiskey and tequila portfolio. Like they, there's a lot they would have to give up to avoid having a, a, a monopoly.

Amazing.

For anyone who can afford them, right? So someone maybe a little bit smaller would be fine, but they can't afford to purchase them.

Yeah. Before we, let me see, plant something with you. I did, I kind of, this has hit me in the brain. We're, we're meeting with, uh, someone at 6 o'clock. to kind of have this kind of discussion. So we were talking to a brand, I think you were on this call. It was with Drinkmate, the guy out of Atlanta, Chris Wolstenholmer.

Yeah. Chris Wolstenholmer.

Yeah. Yeah. So sorry, Chris, for butchering your name, but he does like the carbless, he's doing the carbless model like Adam Corner. He's going an inch wide, a mile deep, And very focused in the Atlanta market, right? And I'm curious what you think about this, but Chris basically was talking about innovation and about brands, right? And he's like, rather than like companies spend millions of dollars, or he talked about the, I think it was Olipop or the investment was like billions of dollars that they bought. He said, they're gonna have to, they're not gonna ever make up, they're not gonna be able to sell to make up what they invested. Why don't, like, why doesn't a company go out and spend $5 million and buy us? Because we have a proven winner. And I'm wondering with what you do with these brands, cuz you're at $5 million, that you could put 'em in a position for acquisition.

That's exactly what I do. So a lot, the, the part of the conversations that I have about are especially for independent brands, because ultimately in the beverage industry, and Tito's aside, they're the exception to the rule. To become successful in this industry, you have to have, you need some backing eventually. Like being independent just doesn't work, which is why we see, uh, strategic partnerships like what Jose Cuervo did with Proximo and Diageo. Diageo, right? You're still leveraging that. And even Tito's having the distribution partnerships that they have. So it does get to a point that being independent small brand, like you, you, you, I don't wanna say like you have to sell out, right? But there is kind of that expectation. And so when we look at the exit plans, it's like, well, how soon are you looking to do that? Are you looking to build a legacy where you stay? Are you looking to fully exit? These are conversations that I wanna have about the motivations with the founder of why they're here. A big red flag for me that don't love to admit out loud is that when a founder is just like, I really, really wanna sell my brand, I just wanna exit and retire and call it a day, that's a red flag. And I don't know that I wanna align with those organizations anymore. I have in the past, um, but I've learned that their motivations don't really align with the kind of work that I do. I'm, I'm here to build something that's built to last, not something that's a hot flash in the pan just to kind of die down later.

That's, that's really interesting. You said that because a lot of brands that we talk to, one of the things inevitably comes up is they, I wanna scale it and sell it within 3 to 5 years. And I'm just scratching my head and I look at like Tito's, he went bankrupt twice in 8 years. And, or you look at the lady that founded Buzz Balls, it took her 20 years, right? And it was like a college study and they all think that like she just like became a Uh, you know, gazillionaire out of the gate and it was a lot of hard work and time. And the founders I love to work with that, I love to work with patient people, um, that they understand it's just like, it's one account at a time, you know, it's one consumer at a time and it's the building blocks of success. But there's so many that they're just running fast. They're looking for investors.

Quick flip.

They're all looking for investors, like from get— from day one, I need investors.

Exactly. And that's when I'm like, no, you need $5 million in revenue, honey. Go, go get it.

I, I will also say that, um, that's the most important thing you just said. You need the revenue before you go get the investors.

Guys, on so many levels, every investor will say that investors don't invest in ideas. Maybe for crowdfunding, like your mom will, like your mom will totally invest in your idea. But I'm just saying, like, like, no, I mean, crowdfunding's amazing.

This is an amazing conversation, but I do have one more, Adam.

I'm sure you have, I'm just gonna add I was gonna ask this question.

I'll just ask it. How do you build revenue?

Me?

How does a brand build revenue?

Oh, there's so many ways. So my favorite way of building revenue in general is savings, almost always, because I've had access to a lot of contracts, a lot of marketing dollars, especially on the marketing front. So when we're talking about multimillion-dollar organizations, these are not the scrappy startups. These are the established brands that have been around 10+ years. They're in multiple states. And they have millions in revenue and, and, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in marketing investments. Um, one of the ways that I'm able to find immediate revenue is through savings. That's one of my, like, it's just because I know the value of certain contracts. Um, a lot of times I can find where something's over an overexpenditure based upon the size of the business and the location. One example would be like I had, um, you know those Neckars? Sounds so silly. Neckars, like the, the, Bottle tags, right? You really shouldn't be paying more than like 7 cents for that, but that's expensive. That's an expensive side. You can get it closer to 3 cents and I've definitely seen it at a penny, right? For each of those. But I had a client that was paying like 10 cents for one of those, but they don't know the difference. And I know it sounds like, well, 10 cents isn't that much. Well, when you're printing thousands of these, right? Because it's for the cases and you're using this for a program with Walmart. That's easily thousands that you're like, that, that, that 10x is a big difference. That's the difference between $1,000 and $10,000, right? So just kind of understanding the difference of, of the value of certain assets within the beverage space. Umbrellas. I had a client that was paying like $2,000 for umbrellas that I knew cost in bulk $40, but like at Costco it still would've been like much less than that. You know, but because the vendor was just taking for granted, like, well, I'm customizing this, and if they think they can get a contract for a little bit more, they're gonna try. But when you have a partner such as myself who's purchased thousands of umbrellas across dozens of vendors, if not more, yeah, I'm gonna literally laugh at your umbrella and walk out the door. So I, I think having a partner, to your point, someone who's coming into this industry with a quick flow. They don't know those types of nuances that carry across the distributor level for incentives, the retailer level for POS assets, and then activations. How much does it cost for a menu? These are things that I have enough data to know what is somewhat fair market value. And so that's one of the main ways that I like to get revenue immediately. Secondarily, secondarily, it is planning. So if you're at Costco, like, do you know Costco's planner? Like, where are you aligned? Where are you on the plannergram? Like, let's maximize where you've already made investments. And so looking at where we can maximize the omnichannel strategy, tying in all the work that the brand is doing. So it's, it's, it's again, it changes with every, with every client. I will say that I keep finding myself saying, okay, haven't dealt with that before. I keep thinking that one day I'll never say that, but boy, it's like Like 2 times a year, something pops up that I'm like, mm, did not deal with this one before. It's, it's new problems to solve every time, but that's again why I do a 90-day retainer. This ensures that the problem stays to what we agreed upon, right? And it doesn't scale into, well, I know I said I wanted to grow the Costco channel, but now that I know I actually, and then it, it converts into a whole different direction going on-premise. Right. Uh, and so by keeping it really contained, it's like, okay, we can do that, but let's just stick to what you wanted to do here first.

What do you think? Before we get to our million-dollar question, and Sam, I'll let you ask it. I'm really curious.

Yeah, you get to ask it because I've been hogging the whole thing. I'm like, you're like, Ella's this rock star. I have all these questions and I feel like you've been so patient. So you take it from here, brother.

This has been great. I'm curious because I'll give you an example. I had a, uh, boss several years ago at Bed Bath Beyond tell me, Adam, the answer can never be no. The answer is how. Right? In terms of selling and bringing in new business and so on. Like, it can be not yet, but we have to find a way to do it, right? What do you say no to? Hmm.

Well, boundaries, right? Anything that's gonna— I, I made a new rule, all these new rules that you have to make over time, right? But a new rule of mine is if my son knows your name, I'm not gonna work with you because that is a sign that you're calling me way too much during my private time. That's like one of the new, like, signals to me. Like, my kid should not know your name, cuz that means I'm either talking about you too much.

Sure.

And not in a good way. Like, I'm saying this on the negative front, right? But he's busy in his own world. He doesn't understand the work that I do or why I have to travel as much as I do or anything like that. But if he starts asking, are you gonna go see Greg? It's time for me to leave you, Greg. Sorry. That is my time to go. Uh, that is a sign that, uh, you've been stressing me out and—

Good answer.

I, I need a break. Um, so that is where I will say no in terms of just, I'm not willing to, and it goes back to my high tolerance. My life has changed a lot in the last, uh, 3 years. And I'm not at a point where I feel like I need to completely sacrifice my personal life to For, for any client, any job, any gig, like my, my sanity is so much more valuable to me. But that said, I'll try any—

Absolutely. I, uh, I don't know if you know her, I wouldn't be surprised, but there's a woman, we had her on the podcast a week or two ago, uh, Cash Rochelleau with, uh, she's formerly of Icon Foods. And I love Cash. She's obviously been in the industry a long time. She knows her shit. She left as the CEO and we reconnected because I'd known her for years and I saw she posted on LinkedIn that she was starting a consulting, like a, an accounting firm. Right? And I messaged her and I said, Cash, what the fuck are you doing? You're the CEO of Icon Foods. I know you're not starting an accounting firm and doing that. And she goes, oh, I quit. Well, you, why? Right? Like it just, I assumed I knew something of the answer, but I was like, I have to know. And she said the same thing. She was like, I didn't see my kids. Right? She's like, I got sick of chasing corporate bullshit and I want, no, no knock to Icon. She's like, they were great, but I got sick of just the corporate hustle and I want to go do my own thing and hang out with my family. Okay, cool. Well, the, the final question, and we could do this all night, but I do have a 5:15, is what's the difference between success and failure for you?

That's so funny you say that. 'Cause I always, I use the Winston Churchill quote a lot. Success is not final and failure is not fatal. So I really think about the finality of both, right? Which there's none. The ceiling for both is as high or as low as you want it to be. And I think that what I'm always learning is the moment you get that success, right? It's onto the next one.

Mm-hmm.

And so just always making sure to strive for greatness and not letting setbacks, not seeing, I, I think that they're really two sides of the same coin, which is they're just both experiences to enrichen the next thing that you do.

Love it.

Keeps you going.

Thank you for, oh, go ahead, Sam.

What keeps you going?

Right now, this is like, I, I like, it's so interesting that you're asking that right now in this season, cuz I'm starting to ask it again. I really, really love the people that I work with. My favorite part of this industry is always the people. Yeah. Like really the, the, the retailers that I get to meet with and learn about their business locally. And then all of the regional sales managers and directors that I get to support, even if it's like more behind the scenes, but just really meeting with people as much as possible. And with beverage, like this industry, it will thrive as long as we keep coming together. And so the fact that I work in an industry that will always encourage us to come together makes me very excited. I do not believe in drinking alone. Drinking alone is not as, is not a consumption occasion. We're not alone. We're on a podcast, but I don't like the whole drinking alone thing.

Yeah.

Like the way that we're trying to make that cool for beverage so that way people will keep drinking and like never No, let's just encourage people to go find a friend, go to a bar by yourself, go somewhere, but like, please stop drinking home alone. Like, please, please, please, just please, can we all just collectively agree not to do that?

So as we wrap up, is there anything that we didn't discuss today that you want to share with our audience and our community? Which, by the way, you're forever part of our community now. So welcome to the Drink Up podcast community forever. So we'll invite you there. Our little, uh, community, but, uh, anything that we didn't share today, I've been flashing Ella Parlor EP Consulting. I believe that is your firm.

Yeah.

And then also, I think I found the book High Tolerance: The Intoxicating World of Alcohol by Ella Parlor. Is that the one?

Yeah. Yeah.

On Amazon. So I was ordering it while you were talking, but anything you want to convey that we didn't share today that you want to share with everybody?

Well, honestly, I just, I really want to thank you for what you're creating both in this industry and really taking in the business practices of the beverage industry and bringing in— I really enjoy your podcast, like hearing the myriad of experiences that people that come to the, come to the mic and get to share their stories and talk about what they're building. And I think over and over again, we keep seeing the cycles, the resilience, the failures. And so to be a part of this community is a huge honor. And just thank you both for creating a really cool space for beverage individuals to learn and grow. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, thank, thank you as well. Uh, so why don't we go around the room? We always go around the room to close down for the Wednesday. Adam, we'll start with you, then we'll go to Ella and then I'll wrap it up.

Got it.

I'm a big fan of catchphrases. So I'm going to, I'm going to say, uh, new levels, new devils. I love that. I hadn't heard that one before. I also think to your comment on people. So if you're listening to this, uh, Asif and Raj, shout out to you guys. Uh, it's a new group I'm working with over the last couple of weeks. Had a call with them yesterday and we started the call and they're like, dude, we love the podcast. And I literally said, this tells you how bad I am at remembering shit. I went, which one? And they go, fucking yours, asshole. Like, what are you talking about? Which one? I'm like, oh yeah, I do that too. Huh? Right. And they're like, how did you forget that you're on a podcast? And I'm like, dude, I'm just talking to people. Like, I just enjoy bullshitting. Right. But truly, like, it's, it's because they even said, they're like, we come from the tech space where they live in San Francisco. They're Like the more we get into this industry, it's just one interesting motherfucker after interesting motherfucker, like cool person after cool person. I'm like, yeah, man, welcome to the party. Like, let's chill, you know, like cool. Right. So that's my takeaway for today is it was truly a pleasure having you and getting to talk to you and the learnings and the education. And I hope folks will go check out your book and, you know, if they can get to $5 million in revenue, because most of the people I'm working with are still trying to get there, obviously I hope they find you or that I can send them your way.

So yes, and I will say I have my book. I made my book for that very reason so that way it is more accessible. Like that was one of my thoughts. Like I wanted it to be a true like insight into how the industry works and why it does from, from my vantage point of working with big brands. Um, my website, ellaparlor.com. It is so important to me to have accessible education tools for new brands that are looking to learn. Anybody who's trying to jump from bartender to general manager or, um, a sales manager. Mm-hmm. To the brand side, whatever it is, I do offer a lot of tools and insights through my LinkedIn, of course, but also just ellaparlor.com. I do not want to only work with big brands. I got to keep the lights on, but I do try to produce tools that are very accessible. If you go to my website right now, there'll be a pop-up for free, a free download for all the acronyms that I've been collecting in this industry.

'Cause I gotta go get that one, man. I get it.

Yeah.

It's amazing. Yeah.

And so that way next time you don't have to feel like an idiot when someone says like, you're, you're like, wait, what? What's GBP? I don't know. Right. Just go ahead and like, you can pop that into your LLM and it knows way more than ChatGPT does. I promise.

Because LLM.

Okay.

What's an LLM?

Sorry. That, oh, they, no, I just used one. I'm so sorry. That's a learned language model. That's basically any AI that you're chatting with the way that you do with, uh, Gemini, Copilot, ChatGPT. Those are LLMs is, is the official name. But yes. Uh, anyway. I know people say AI, but artificial intelligence just means—

Yeah, you have to come back. We'll have to get into deep on the AI and how you use that with your business. I'm curious. We use AI for sure to aggregate. I use it as a data aggregator, quite frankly. I'm able to get the answers really quickly, ask for data and do that. Um, so any closing thoughts from you that you want to share? We got the, we got the ellapahler.com, Ella Parler EP Consulting. We got the book High Tolerance: The Intoxicating World of Alcohol by Ella Parler. So you got a new fan I'll have the book. So maybe I can get that autographed one day. Um, you're based out of Houston area, Dallas, Austin?

I am in Dallas, Texas.

Okay.

And yeah, I will, uh, I'll get your address. I can send you a signed copy. I'd be happy to do that. Thank you so much.

That would be fantastic. I would forever—

I sent a whole bunch today. I sent a whole— I, the amount of time I've spent at the post office, that's why my signed copies are so stupid expensive because I got so many orders. I was like, I can't work 'Cause I'm just signing copies. And like, you don't realize how long it takes to sign, damn. Because I'm not just signing my name, right? I wanna write a note and I wanna make it count. And I used to write long pages. I don't do that anymore. You get a sentence and my name. I don't have time. The amount of time I've spent at the post office. And so, yeah, I, I, when I did the math, I was like, I have to charge. I think it's like $65, which is so embarrassing, but it was just 'cause I get, I get a decent amount of orders, so I had to make it contained. Uh, but thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity to hang out and talk shop. I would love to come back and maybe give Adam a chance to say a word.

I know he was really quiet. He started out like, I'm gonna take this whole thing and, and, uh, run with it. We is, you don't know what you're gonna get with Adam and I. It's like a, you know, like with the Forrest Gump that we talked about earlier, it's like a box of chocolate. He might be open, I might be closed, but, uh, to have you, your energy, who you are, uh, you're, you're truly, uh, great for our industry. My partner's like talking about you constantly, so you should connect with Alicia.

Yes, let's get— oh my gosh, what city is she in? I, I live in Dallas, but you guys, I'll meet you anywhere around the world if I can get there with the US passport without having to do some weird stuff like you got to do in the Middle East sometimes to get around. But if I can get there with the US passport, I'll meet you. Like, it's not that hard.

She's in, she's in Wichita. She spends time between Denver and Wichita.

Pick one, like seriously, Alicia, let's do it. I would love to. I love excuses to get happy hour and there's always business to be. Look, there's beverage business in every city. So I can always—

Yeah, I'm trying to get her. I don't think I'm going to go, but, uh, one of us is going to, but the TPSA, we have a booth there. So, but I don't know if it's worth it, to be honest with you, to go.

Don't sue me. Uh, we love TPSA because in Texas, like, of course, like our package stores are so important, but I kind of made a hard stance this year after spending just so much time and money at conferences. over the last 3, 4 years. One, because of my book launch, but just in general for networking. I'm not going to any more. I'm not going to any more like conferences or anything unless they are fully paying for me to go, like fully paying for my hotel and travel, which at that point, who would do that? Right. But unless they're hiring me as a speaker, but I just, there, I, my, I got my, I got full. I was going like every 3 weeks. It was getting heavy.

Yeah.

Yeah. And the, the, uh, the packaging one, the TP, like that, that's a, that's a great one. It's down south in San Antonio, right? Is that where it is? San Antonio?

Yeah.

Great business to be made. I would just say, make sure you're connected. Like a lot of decisions are made before you get there.

Yeah, I bet.

If that makes sense. So just, you know, make sure that you're, I, that is not one I would go to, to try to learn and network. That is one I would make sure I have some established connections before I'm walking in the door so I can activate them. Good old boys vibes, if you know what I mean. Just because of the history of, of, uh, TABC out here. So, but a really great one. A really, really great one. But boy, I'm tired on the conferences, you guys. Am I allowed to say that? I don't wanna get canceled.

Yeah, sure.

You're, look, you, I'm laughing because you're actually working reverse for you.

It's all good. It's all good.

I was like, I'm literally waiting for the post in a month where you're like, I said I wasn't gonna go unless somebody Somebody wrote me a check to cover all my bills. Here it is. So I guess I'm fucking going.

I'm going. I know now people know my secret. Yeah, I guess I just kind of gave away that secret.

I think there's hope for Adam. There's hope for you and I to get in. I think we've been around long enough that we can get a media pass. I think we can probably try to get it going on the guise of a media pass on these things, man.

Yeah, we're gonna get there for sure.

Yeah, let's, let's talk offline if you guys really want to talk about that.

Email me. Yeah, we'll stay, we'll stay on that thing. You can't leave because we got to make sure everything uploads. Okay. I'll say goodnight to everybody here and wish everybody a happy Wednesday. Ella, thank you for joining us as always. Adam, thank you as well as forever being a partner in this thing called Drink Up and welcome to the community. And I hope everybody enjoyed today's podcast.

Thanks everybody.

Thank you. Oh shit.

That was fun.