Welcome to our live show!

10 minutes late. A lot of technical difficulties this morning. Maybe some of you stuck with us, maybe some of you did not stick with us, but we are live and rolling on— I know YouTube, Substack, and Facebook, and we will rerun this on Apple iTunes, iPod, our podcast, as well as Spotify Live. down the line. But Mara, welcome to Drink Up Live podcast.

Hi. Thanks. Nice to be here. Yeah, it's great.

Happy Saturday. Yeah, happy Saturday. I know it's early there. Are you in Los Angeles area, California?

No, I'm in Chicago.

Oh, you are? Okay. Okay. I was thinking LA for some reason, but— and you were working with Breakthrough yesterday in Chicago?

Yeah, we had a trade show down in Cicero, an emerging brands trade show. I was all over the place yesterday.

That is, that is, that is awesome. I love that. Are you in the cities in Chicago or where are you at?

I'm in the suburbs of Chicago, but I feel like I covered a lot of— I cover a lot of ground.

And we're running live on LinkedIn, by the way.

There you go. Who knew?

Who knew? Who knew how this, this works? Well, a couple of things just to get out of the way. We just got to call our sponsors real quick, if you don't mind, and we'll get right into it.

Awesome.

I want to thank Adam Smith from Alias Advising. He can't be here this morning, so he sends you his best. Obviously, Alicia Vargo, and I think you guys were trading messages back and forth from Bev Assets, so thank you, Alicia, for the support there. And then Ryan Hellerman from ROX Advisors. They obviously have a group of folks that can help a brand too, from logistics all the way to take the brand, uh, to market. And then our, our favorite sponsor is Jay Williams. I'm out of water, Jay, so I can't show the can. I guess I should just keep a can to show. But Jay has a product called Freebird, believe it or not, the song, Lynyrd Skynyrd. And somehow he got the rights to that name, which— don't ask me how he did that, but, uh, he did. But Mara, it's so wonderful to have you here. Uh, I know you've had a heck of a journey. I don't even know how we found each other, but we did. And you're sitting here on the Drink Up Live podcast, and I'm really excited to have you.

I appreciate it. We probably connected through LinkedIn. I feel like that's, uh, my favorite platform.

Yeah, it's like the only one that I have a little bit of mild success. I've tried like YouTube, Facebook, Substack— doesn't seem to, uh, Uh, resonate at this point, but I do love LinkedIn. I made a lot of friends here. Uh, and you're based out of Chicago?

Um, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you tell me a little bit about Chicago today.

Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the brand. Um, Inspiro, as I'm saying, Inspiro Tequila.

Inspiro. Inspiro Tequila. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, it's a, it's a bit of a circuitous path how I ended up here, but, um, from a being a lawyer at a large law firm to working corporate strategy, um, to being a stay-at-home mom with 3 kids for many years. Um, although maybe that's— maybe that seems like a direct, uh, path to why I started drinking tequila. But, um, Inspiro Tequila, I founded in February 2020. Um, it was kind of the, the impetus to it was 2 things, and I know you've heard this story, but really, um, It's kind of like pretty basic. It was 2 things. One, I've been a tequila drinker, found out everything I was drinking contained undisclosed additives. I had absolutely no idea there were additives in all the tequilas, even the fancy ones that I was drinking. I want something additive-free but still really approachable, easy to drink. And then the other thing is that, um, all these women, my friends, everyone kept saying they're like, you know, had kind of converted from vodka and soda to tequila and soda, and everyone was drinking tequila. And all these women I knew, and I thought, well, if all these women drink tequila, why do brands not focus on this consumer? And when they do, you probably know this better than me because you've been in the industry much longer, but they tend to dumb down the product for her. They put it in like hot pink bottles or make it fruity flavored. I'm like, no, I actually think she likes really good quality. She's like an educated, thoughtful consumer. I think she would really like a great quality craft tequila. That is just positioned more and marketed towards her.

So she is your target.

Her?

Yeah, she—

me, exactly. Because this is a consumer I understand really well, and I think that's best if it comes from a consumer that you can really understand, like where to find her, what she cares about. It's not the men don't drink tequila. Men love the tequila. It's just when you look at things like, um, the place we want to be at, the accounts. If you look at like our marketing, you don't You don't see anything on any of our social media that it's like scantily clad women and like dark club scenes. It's just not something that would resonate with me. So you don't see that in any of our materials. It's light, it's bright, it's pretty, it's elegant. And that's kind of like the visual effect. And then also just being a really like easy to drink. I don't love like harsh alcohol forward.

Right.

Tequilas. And so that's what we like set out to do also.

And where did— where's your NOM?

Yeah, so it's NOM 1614, um, tequila tap. Um, we were actually like the 2nd supplier in there. Um, at the time they only had, uh, Tres Agaves, and then we joined, and now they have like maybe 5 or 6 suppliers. Um, that was our old— that's the current product that's in the market right now, but we brought our own master distiller in. We brought Ana María Romero-Meña in to create our taste profiles. So we run every production run ourselves. We don't buy any bulk tequila and tweak it. And then since our next run that will come in, we're really excited. We actually moved to a distillery that she is part of, and it's a brand new gorgeous distillery. We were actually the first production run they did. Last July. We're still waiting to get product out of there because regulatory things and getting permits and registrations has taken a very long time. But we're really excited. We were the first production run there and love the facility. And but it's the same, you know, everything still has Anna Maria's, you know, kind of thumbprint on it. So.

Wonderful. So you started in January of 2020. So that's around COVID time, right?

Yeah.

So what was the impact of that? Or what was the— I mean, I think you gave me the impetus of why you started, because you were looking for what she could enjoy, right? Which you were talking about you, but you're relating to her, which I love. I love how you speak about your brand. Um, so you were a corporate attorney, correct?

Many years ago, yes. I did, um, I did commercial real estate secure transactions. I worked at like the largest law firm in Chicago. So, um, but then I went from there. I left a lot. I was there for many years and then I left and I went to join the corporate strategy group at McDonald's Corporation. So I was on then the business side and that's kind of what sparked my entrepreneurial spirit. We were like studying consumer trends and insights and looking at ways outside of the core business that the business could grow. So it was really kind of fascinating. But then nothing goes according to plan. I actually ended up— My Career came to a very abrupt halt because I became pregnant with my oldest kids who are twins. They're great now. They both graduated college last year. But, I ended up on emergency bed rest and then had preemie twins. So, I left my corporate career. So, my most recent job was with the 3 most difficult bosses of my life. And, that was as a stay-at-home mom of 3 kids because my youngest is 9.5 years younger.

Were your first 2 your first? I mean, 1 and 2, the twins?

Yeah, my twins, and then I have a third, a little boy, yes.

You're describing us. We have 2 girl twins and a boy.

Okay, then you know twin life. It's all just chaos, and I don't even know what was going on for the first year.

Yeah, and Susan was on bed rest for 12 weeks, by the way.

Yep, yes. So I was on bed rest for 3 and a half months, so very similar. So that was quite another journey. But yeah, when I had these preemie twins, I just thought they really needed my attention. And so that's when I decided to stay home and leave my corporate job, something I never anticipated. I kind of never saw that in my future, but I'm very fortunate that I had that option. So, after staying home for many years though, I knew I wanted to start something. I knew this was gonna be a product-based business.

Yeah.

Just because I'd been in service-based, and I really wanted to do something that product, like bring something to life. I love everything in the better-for-you category in general. And really because, you know, the reason it was tequila is 'cause what I said about like, I kept coming back to it because I thought, well, I thought, there was room for innovation. Even though there are many, many brands, I still thought there was some room for innovation and positioning towards a different consumer. Um, as far as your question about COVID it really did impact it, but in like a good and a bad way, even though COVID was like a horrible situation.

Yeah.

One, I couldn't get to Mexico for a very long time, so that was very hard because it was closed. Every time we'd like schedule a trip to go down, it was closed. I couldn't go down to do my first tasting down in Mexico until May of 2021. Um, I remember even going down, like, I had to go through, like, before I could even enter the distillery, I had to go through like a drive-through COVID testing center in Mexico to go to the distillery. Like, there are so many protocols in place.

Yeah.

So that was, was hard. On the other hand, I had a lot of time to do a ton of research because we were home and we weren't going anywhere. So that is what I did. I just started like studying everything I could. I took a course offered by the CRT in Mexico, you know, the governing body of tequila. On the production and history of tequila, and I became certified, and I just took that time to research everything I could. I read books, I subscribed to every industry newsletter. Granted, I also had 3 kids, you know, homeschooling, so that was kind of like a nightmare. But, um—

So you founded a brand, you have 3 kids you're homeschooling, and you're educating yourself about the product that you want to bring to market that she's going to enjoy.

Yeah, and the entire industry, like understanding 3 tiers and studying the laws and everything. Like, I just dove in deep. And, um, so it gave me time to do that. But what I'd say the benefit was for me, um, I am always looking to learn from other people who know more than me. And it could be like on anything. It could be like spirits industry, tequila, marketing, digital. Like, I just like to learn a lot. And this is, you know—

Yeah.

biggest learning curve. And people I never would have been able to connect to, I suddenly had access to.

Yeah.

Because let's say it would have required, let's meet for coffee. Well, that's like 2 hours out of someone's day by the time they drive there and go, and I probably wouldn't have got the meeting. This ability to set up a 30-minute Zoom call with people opened a ton of doors for me to connect to people and to meet people. So that part, Was really helpful.

Um, so COVID was a blessing. It was funny when it first went in, I remember we went to this thing called Zoom or Teams. I guess we were using Microsoft Teams and we were trying to figure out our whole, um, uh, uh, process. Sorry, there's a noise. My daughter decided to talk and doesn't realize that I'm on a live podcast, but that's what happens.

We can't hear.

Live, you can't? Yeah, she's, uh, it's one of the twins, by the way. She's 32. by the way, 32-year-old twin. So anyway, um, Susan, I'm on a— okay, thanks. Anyway, so I'm gonna train the thought. So it helped us like with Zoom, by the way. What you just experienced, that's what we experienced on Zoom too. People are like, dogs are running in the picture, kids are talking the whole bit. But you're right, it gave you an opportunity to actually connect with a lot of people in a much easier way, you're saying, right?

And just get the meeting. I feel like it just— I meetings that I probably would not have been able to get before.

So tell me, so you've been doing this for 6 years, right? You're this brand. So I guess so, right? We're going on to 7 years eventually, right?

It feels like dog years some days. And sometimes it feels like we're just getting started. And then other times it also, at the same time, also feels like You know, like that we've been doing this for dog years. Every year feels like a lot longer.

Well, it's funny, we talked to a lot of brands. We probably, you know, Alicia and I, and she's been doing this for 2 decades, very successful entrepreneur. I've been doing it for 4 years, so I'm still, I'm junior to you and her. But we talked to a lot of brands, and you know, there's 5 types of brands we talk to: foundation, build, scale, or build, grow, scale, and sustain, right? Um, and every foundation brand we talk to, a lot of them, sorry, I don't know what the AI is doing, but every time we talk to them, they, um, expect that they're going to scale like in a year. And from your estimation, you're at 6 years. Where are you at? Are you like, are you, you're not foundation. Are you like build grow?

I'd say build to grow. I think we're really focused honestly and disciplined. And we've talked about this because we've talked about markets and things like that, you know. of not trying to be everywhere and trying to like actually build the foundation in, you know, certain markets first.

Right.

So I think that's where we're at is that we focus on like, you know, I'm very focused on like 5 key markets and I'm not trying to be in 20. You know, that is not even like, I think it would be spreading ourselves too thin. So I think that's kind of the discipline of it is we only want to be, you know, these markets, everything from like even accounts. Like, I don't want to be, you know, in every account. We want to be in the right accounts. So I just think that is like a little bit more of how I view it as opposed to just trying to be like everywhere.

I love the build to grow. What you just said is that you're building to grow and then the focus on 5 markets and then actually going into accounts. That matter. And you, when you and I first met, you had shared that with both Alicia and I and where you want to be. How is that strategy working for you today?

You know, I think, I think it's effective, at least first and foremost in our home market where we look at it. It's like a great— it's really a great test market for us in Illinois because we're in different types of channels. Like, for example, in Illinois, and you, you know this, and the people who understand the industry will know, but like these channels all work very differently. So by being in We're in traditional grocery, we're in like Jewel-Osco here, so traditional grocery channel. So what works in traditional grocery? We're in natural grocery because we're in Whole Foods. What works in that, you know, a natural grocery? And then we're in like, you know, independent retail, chain retail, like a Binny's. So understanding and seeing like what works well, I think is a great way to test and learn and figure out how you can replicate that in another market. So that is kind of what I would say is like, We put a lot of effort and time into figuring out, and in really scrappy ways. I think that's the— that's hopefully where you come in. Sometimes when you come in with an outsider perspective, you're like, well, why do you do it that way? Maybe you don't have to do it that way. Is there another way? You know, I think I've been very vocal about my view on like demos at some types of accounts and the ineffectiveness of that. And like, is there another way to build? Where is it more effective for me to do, you know, I did 7 events this week and have people trying product at events where I'm gonna have a lot more people coming through than a random person standing in the store doing a demo who doesn't know our brand.

What's the difference between an event versus a demo? Just drill into that a little bit.

Yes, I love, I love that question. And because— so yes, when you're at an event, you're not at the point of sale. And people ask me, in fact, just yesterday someone asked again, well, can we buy it here? I'm like, nope. I would go to jail. So nope, you can't buy it from me. I'm like, and I don't look good in orange. So a demo is really going into a retail account and standing in the store and getting people to try the product. It is so dependent on the specific store and the exact time and day that works as well. I went to a local— I went to our local retailer just yesterday evening just to see how things are going. It was 6:30 on a Friday. It was absolutely empty because that was too late in the suburbs of Chicago to be at a retail store because everyone's already at dinner. So it is so specific of finding the exact right time and day and how many people are going to come through. And the person working that is also really important. So if I'm doing it, this is what I've been posting about often on LinkedIn. You know, I stood, I did tons of founder demos at Whole Foods. I did a whole like round of them. And yes, they're effective because I was doing them. You go like, then the next level would be if someone from like a team, then they can like tell your story and share it. But you're like many levels away once you're using someone Who is totally unfamiliar with the brand, no matter how much you try and give them information and training. I watch them all the time. I've secret shopped like every single one of them, and we've done them. I've had people standing next to me. I literally walked up to someone who asked me if I wanted the brand new vodka, and I looked at her like, what? You know, it's tequila. Um, because she was selling my brand.

She's like, you want a brand new vodka? And she's tasting your tequila.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was kind of, you know, that was a nightmare. Um, but so it's just right. And no matter how much, it's not like that they're not good. It's just, it's a different level than the incentive structure of what you're doing. And it's just, I think it's hard. I think if you have your own ambassador team, I've heard about brands who are doing that and building that. That is like my ultimate goal is having your own. Like, I would love all these moms who maybe want a side gig or like just to like start dipping their toe back into the workforce because they don't have a lot of time. Like, hey, can you do something for some hours a week and do it? Like, people would just be excited about it, passionate, excited to learn.

Yeah, you know, remember the brand Carbless? Adam Corner, that's how he built his brand and his ambassadors. And he rewards them too. He'll have like the big check, they've been with us for years, and he transitions them into salespeople. That's how he built his business, by the way.

I think it's a great model. I think, you know, um, I'm fortunate to find someone. I actually am lucky. I have some woman who— a woman who like has volunteered to kind of help me run that because it does take a lot.

Yeah.

Like without— with a small team, you know, that managing, you know, all the ambassadors, making sure that everyone show up, do they have what they need, and you're doing demos places. But I think that would be the most effective. But what I found for me as a like one human being, what I can do most effectively, because I think— because it's hard for me to be at every place and every store.

Yeah.

And you never know who's gonna come through doing a lot of events. So, right, so in my home market here, at least initially, I show up. I mean, I did 30 events just in Q1 this year. So going to events, especially like professional women's groups, I've like all last week was Chicago Tech Week. I am not a tech founder at all, but I had like 7 events for Chicago Tech Week showing up.

So you go to— wait, so you're selling tequila, but you're at Chicago Tech Week?

Yeah, because they do all these events. I did a poker tournament. I actually played in the poker tournament on Monday. They had my tequila. I was part of like, uh, Chicago Sports, um, Tech Week. They did 2 events. They did a pitch competition. We're the tequila. They did a fashion show. We're the tequila.

Like, business. So you're pitching tequila? I'm confused.

They're trying it. These are consumers. No, it's not pitching.

I'm not pitching tequila. It doesn't have to be like a beverage event. You opened my eyes to something here.

Oh, it's so much better because I don't have any competitors. I don't have a huge activation. When I do, like, I'm doing an event Monday for a women's big, like, a networking thing that we co-host, and we have like 90 professional women signed up, founders, leaders in Chicago, and they're coming, and their only cocktail and their only option is gonna be Inspiro Tequila, and no one's gonna have this huge activation next to me, and they're gonna hear me and get to hear my story They're gonna be much stickier consumers.

Oh my gosh, yes. And plus you have 90 new friends versus, especially Bobby the bartender standing behind the thing trying to sell you a vodka. You know, I mean, at a tasting event, you're onto something. That is, and has that paid dividends to you? Have you been able to kind of look at like the conversion?

Yeah, every, you know, it's very hard to measure even though we try and use QR codes and things like that. But people don't tend to like redeem the rebates on QR codes in all honesty. Um, but I had people reach out to me afterwards like, oh look, I mean, they feel like then, right, they know me, they've connected with me, they know. They sent me a picture, like, text me, send me a picture. They're connected with me on LinkedIn, they're following the story. Um, I met it, and I think every single one of those, I meet someone who is going to be helpful or relevant. They're going to introduce me to someone, they have an introduction, they're going to be— I mean, one woman I met at an event, and like, then she Randomly text me, I'm having my 40th birthday party, I love your tequila, can you send me some recipes and where should I go and buy it? Like, where's the most helpful? They'll even ask me like, where should you go get it? What's most helpful for you?

Does your website tell you where you can go find your product?

Yes.

Got it. And then, you know, here's a question for you. So obviously we're talking about what it takes to launch a spirits company, right? So you discovered this new way of how you build your business. I'm assuming you didn't discover that the first few years of what you've come across to build your brand?

Um, you know what, I actually started doing events, even if it was like small ones, like right away. Like, I have some friends, and in fact, I have friends who love tequila, and then I have actually their husbands are like these kind of tequila geeks who do like collecting and like love tequilas. So one of the first things I did, honestly, I had everyone do a blind taste test in like my backyard. I had friends over and I had them do a blind taste test.

So I was doing that in your backyard.

That was probably one of the first. Yeah. And then I had someone— I had like all these girlfriends from like every like way I knew them over for like National Tequila Day. I hosted it in my backyard and had them serve. I had a— that one I actually hired a bartender to serve drinks. I'm not like a great mixologist. I'm like, I'm really good at making a tequila and soda on the rocks. So I had someone make drinks. Yeah. And mostly What we've done, which I think has been very helpful and cost-effective for us, is join on other people's events. So I get people that were like, we're doing the women's golf outing, can you come and do a tasting and a hole or whatever? Like, yes, it's time for me and things like that, but I don't have to like organize the whole thing and pay for the whole thing. So we tag on, which is my favorite thing to do, like just great. complimentary events that would be good events for us. So like I've done the Women in Law Coalition or Women in Finance or anything. People have something going on, they ask us. And it's a little different than like when people ask you for requests for like galas and stuff. Like tons of people ask for donated product, right? But I, I made a kind of a rule when it comes to like that or like festivals. I don't do anything where no one remembers what they drank 3 drinks in.

Well, that's like if you go to these big beverage events, they're like, yeah, we got the food, there's all these beverages. By the time they get to your table, they're drunk and they don't know what they have experienced, right? I mean, that's at least been my experience.

And I don't remember what was in the cocktail. So I try and only go to things where, which is very hard because we're a small team, where we have like a presence, where someone hears me speak, or I'm on a panel or a founder's panel, or I'm standing doing a tasting next to the bar where I can talk to people about the product. So that to me is like really important because I want them to have like the connection.

So this is a competitive market you're in. I mean, tequila, like there's a lot of tequilas that exist. Like, it's amazing. Like, I've been selling tequila since the 19— I guess I went to work for Diageo. I was Hubline back in the day, like the 1990-something. But anyway, You know, Cuervo was the only thing you'd really find on the shelf. Now you walk the shelf, there's like this sea of tequilas. How do you stand out?

There are a lot of tequilas. And I think though, we can kind of like reduce the market a little bit to like where I see the market for us, like that we would think is our competitive set. First of all, you have a lot of huge brands, and you see the mass market brands, which have been like declining, right? Like 2025, they declined like 1.5%. And then you see the craft brands, which are actually growing.

Yeah.

And where I see us fitting is that there is not a lot in the— and then the craft are all like, many of them are more competing on like heritage, process. Um, I'd say not a lot of them are focused on, if any, maybe like one or two focus on female consumers. And then having this kind of like fitting in where we have this approachable— usually you either have sweeter note tequilas, but it's because they're artificially sweetened, and like the mass brand, what you got.

Mm-hmm.

Or you have these craft that are like maybe like a little more alcohol forward, And so we sit somewhere in the middle of that. And I also think we don't— we have a great production process. We have a great master distiller. We don't necessarily have to— like when I talk about doing these events, she doesn't really want to hear about the terroir and my exact cooking methodology and all that. She wants to know I'm basically giving her a better option, like elevating the kind of bad tequila she's been drinking, I'm gonna say bad in quotes, but like, you know, whatever, has additives in it.

Yeah.

You should drink what you like, but like, you know, she just wants to know, okay, oh, here's like a cleaner version of something I already like, like, but I don't think she wants to hear. So I think it's a little bit different also positioning and how we kind of address this consumer. I don't want to make it that it's, you know, just not approachable. I said the taste profile is approachable, but I want the brand to be approachable as well. So I think we stand out, one, our bottles look very different on the shelves. You know, it's this tall, skinny, pretty elegant bottle. I made it so it's slender in the middle, easy to hold and pour. So like, looks like an elevated, but I want to make sure the juice is just as good quality. But when I talk about being approachable, like, you know, how do you do a tequila tasting? You taste it, you taste it neat in a specific glass and things like that. But I'm not going to dictate how people have to drink the tequila, and then you have to have it in a certain way if you want to have it in, you know, A margarita, a Paloma. So I think that's part of it too. Like, we don't take ourselves so seriously as well that you have to like— I hope you appreciate the craft that went into it and tastes much better on its own or in a cocktail. But I think that's the piece of it too. It's like—

So you let them kind of have their own individual experience and what they want to experience. If they want to know about terroir, great, here it is.

Exactly.

If you want to just enjoy some tequila with your friends and you're looking for a really good taste, Great, have at it. I think that's what you're saying. The name, the name of your tequila, how did that come about?

Yeah, so Inspiro is a Spanish word for inspired, and the company is named in honor of my inspirations, my, my grandmother, um, and my mother. So both of them are— I just was very fortunate to have these like really strong, um, powerhouse women in my life who I guess, um, give me the confidence to believe I could do anything, including, you know, who knew, start tequila company, although I don't think they ever saw that in my future. As someone who studied accounting and then went to law school, I don't think they saw a tequila owner in the future.

Were you not in college? Were you in the bars like the social chairman?

No. In fact, not at all. I met with a friend who I went to high school with yesterday, and he owns some bars and restaurants out here. And I met with him yesterday. I said, would you ever have seen this coming? I would have put myself more in the category of more of, um, like a math nerd, um, than someone who was— I mean, I was, I was pretty, I was a pretty intense, uh, student.

That's funny. I was like, I was a student selling the books, like, okay, I got, uh, half the semester gone. I got to get pizza and beer. I have to sell those books. So anyway, but I got through. Uh, all right, so let's— so the additive-free, I want to get into this a little bit. What is going on with that whole thing? I know it was like you could put additive-free. What is happening now?

Oh my gosh, our labels have changed so many times, which is why when I said that we had a production run that's been taking so long to even get bottled, like the label process has been taking so long because we switched distilleries so that the labels have to be changed. And like every time we submit again, they have to— they take one more thing off our label. Um, so it's nuts. So we used to be able to use, you know, originally that Tequila Matchmaker had that confirmed additive-free, so we had that on the labels. Then they Um, then they said you couldn't use that anymore. You can't confirm anything additive-free. So then— but they were allowing you to put in just the words additive-free.

Okay.

And then they said you take off the words additive-free. Um, and then we had just no sugar, no carbs, and then they said you take off no sugar because that implies that it's additive-free, and you can't say additive-free.

Why are they trying to stop— why are they trying to stop it?

So we have some bottles that have like a piece of tape over it because there are bottles and they had to put a piece of tape over all of them. I'm like, oh my gosh. People are like, what's behind the tape? Because, you know, obviously there are players who have a lot more power in this industry than we do, who don't want that message going out. My feeling is we should have more transparency in all drinks. Like, you know, I want to know what's in everything. My cleaning products, I look at what the ingredients are.

Yeah.

I want to know what's in my, like, all my makeups and creams. I want to know what's in my food. So I, I think you should drink whatever you like, but I mean, I think there should be some transparency in just knowing what is in your drink.

Well, I mean, you're at these events and you're talking to people, you can certainly tell them, hey, this is added to free, just like you're doing this. I can't put it on the label because the, the— I'm just not allowed to the way they communicate, but I can tell you what what you're drinking here is additive-free. And then I'm assuming you're very protective of the agave because it seems like they're taking the agave, they're just taking them out younger and younger each year, right? So what's the average age of your agave?

Yes, we have a requirement that's a minimum of 6 years, certain fruit level minimum. So, um, and our— actually, our last run was like really great, great, high, like amazing sugar content agave. I think we don't rush the process, so, but we're also not a big brand. So I tried to explain this. I actually did a LinkedIn post on showing just like how much agave goes into like 2— we use an autoclave, like 2 autoclaves, which doesn't make a ton of tequila. It makes like 3,200 cases. It's not a lot, but it's a lot, a lot of tequila. So you can understand why big companies want to industrialize the process to make more tequila much more quickly. So generally when they're using the younger agave, you don't have the sugar content. So maybe they're using a diffuser process, which is—

Right.

If you think about a diffuser, blanco tequila can be made in like 60 hours versus the traditional blanco that maybe is like 6 days versus ours that's like 45 to 60 days because we require it to stabilize for a minimum of 30 days. And then, we rest our blanco in bourbon barrels for a short time. And, very few blancos ever go to wood.

You can communicate that.

Yes, exactly. And so, that's how we got sweeter notes without using any additives. But, if you think about it, if you take really young agave without sugar content and use a diffuser and you don't cook it before processing it and before milling it, you're going to come up with a neutral green spirit. And so, you have to add something.

Like I'm boiling something on the stove, right? You're basically boiling the agave. Is that what diffusing is?

That's what it is. They're like adding like hot water chemicals and they're like shredding it as it goes through. Um, I mean, it's like I've seen a number of diffusers. I mean, they're like these huge, huge pieces of machinery. But if you come out with like a neutral grain spirit, you, you have to add something to give it the flavor of tequila. So now listen, that— and people may like it and it works for them. So like I feel like if that's when you like to drink, great. If it doesn't make you feel terrible, fine. Yeah, I just think that, um, for people who don't want anything added, they should maybe have the ability to find out if it has anything or not.

I believe in truth in labeling. I got a question coming in from Alicia. Oh sure, Mara, can you touch on the kosher designation The features and benefits of the choice, additional opportunities for growth in the sector. So kind of a couple of questions there.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah.

Yeah. So some decisions I made as a business were actually less about business decisions. Kind of funny I say that about being a certified B Corp as well. I did it because it kind of aligned with my ethos. I don't know if there's a business benefit. Kosher certification. We did it from the very beginning, being kosher certified. And, you know, I think there's a big opportunity there because there are places and specific areas and stores and restaurants that would—

I was in a Benny's one evening talking to Brett, the buyer, with my friend Jason. Maybe you know Jason Griffin. But anyway, so I'm like sitting there and then literally a guy walks up and says, where's your kosher section? So they walk up, he goes, and then Brett leaves me, goes, talks to someone, they walk out with 2 carts of kosher products.

Um, yeah, I mean, it depends on what area, but like, in all honesty, it started because my whole family keeps kosher. So that is kind of what, like, how it started is because like I wanted it, I mean, for my aunts and uncles and everyone to be able to drink it. So that's kind of how it started. And that's really funny that you mentioned Jason. Um, He's amazing and he's my brand manager.

Is he really? He's a good friend, so I'll, I'll make sure he takes care of you.

I love that.

He's pretty direct, so, but, uh, um, he's, uh, he's a good person. He'll tell you exactly how it is, which I think, I think, um, suppliers need to hear that. And I don't know what your, your thought is. Just get into that a little bit. So you have these distributors that you work with. Um, what, what, what do you— I mean, obviously they're great partners. We We love them all. But if you're like a new brand and you're going to market or you're a brand, how do you— how is the best way to manage your wholesaler? And do you manage a wholesaler?

Yeah. And I think that that phrase is very interesting to me and I have a lot of like opinions on that. So I love that. So when people pitch, we'll manage your distributor, I always laugh and I reply back, there's no managing distributor as a small brand. I go in, I went in, and even though things have changed quite a bit, I went in with eyes wide open from the very beginning that the sales are our sales.

Right.

And recognizing that. And then hopefully, you know, over time, like Jason's great and a fan of the brand, which we love, and helpful for us, which is great, but you don't know who you're going to have and if they're going to be champions of the brand. So over time you start to build some relationships, and I feel like in a huge distributor, like, if I can build like even 5 good relationships with people who like really want, you know, like who want to help or bring me to appointments or things like that.

Have you found your besties? That's Alicia, quote unquote, besties. Do you have your besties in the marketplace?

Exactly. And, and we do, but I'm going to say why it's really hard. So I'm very transparent when people ask me for advice. So I had a woman reach out recently, and she's like, I just want to know what we should do. I think I should get a distributor now because I have a full-time job, I don't have time to sell. And I said, that is a very bad reason to want to get a distributor. Um, and I was really honest with you.

Keep on going, go ahead.

I was very honest because I said that's not going to happen. And listen, like, there's been so many changes. You understand this, you know, very well. We started forming relationships and, and finding our besties and finding some people. And then there were like, you know, some of our distributors, really big layoffs, and everyone I had formed relationships with was no longer there and had different jobs, and they're all new people in the roles. So we had to like start from scratch again. So that's why I would say the really important piece is that you own the relationships. yourself, um, because things change. Like, so with the accounts—

So you're talking about, yeah, places that sell you, you need to be there working the market because it's, uh, I always talk about the word ghost distribution. I post about it all the time. I know, it's like, it's like you can go get a bottle placement in a bar or on the shelf, but if you don't go work it, it means nothing. Is this ghost distribution? Is that what you're saying?

Well, I'm saying that if the people change who are the, you know, the key account manager for that account changes and, you know, they don't have that account anymore and things change all the time, people get moved around. If I was just relying on them, so I feel like we have to have the relationship with the account. And just like I talked about, like a lot of focus on markets, on accounts, like we're also on accounts like I always tell people, like, I'd rather have 20 menus than 100 back bar placements. I want, like, accounts that, like, move and that feature us because we are a— there's so many reasons why, but, um, I'm gonna start with first, we are a more unknown brand, so no one is calling us out. without knowing us. So, right, you have to have a lot of brand awareness in the market for someone to call out your brand if it's sitting on the back bar, to know like, oh, we want to replace my tequila drink with that. That requires a lot of brand awareness, and I think it's hard for a young brand. People are going to call out the, the big players they know.

Yeah.

Right, or they've heard of. Second, it relies on people sitting at the bar. I am, I'm in an area where people are mostly sitting in a dining room and not necessarily sitting at the bar. And if you're sitting at a table in a restaurant, because we're, we're less, I'd say we're more white tablecloth focused kind of brand, we're an ultra-premium tequila. Someone's sitting at a table, they never saw the bar.

Exactly. We go to our favorite Italian restaurant, I never go in the bar, I just go sit out and I order my favorite You know, my chicken and pasta, and I look at the menu and maybe order a glass of wine, you know. So you got to be— exactly, how are they going to discover you is your point, right?

Right. I mean, I sit at a lot of bars. I eat dinner and I eat meals and I sit at bars because I want— because they have the product. I want to talk to the people and talk about it. But like, if I wasn't doing this in this business and I'm going out for dinner with my family, I'm probably sitting at a table somewhere. But maybe when it's nice out, I'm sitting outside, even further removed And I still have no idea what they had on the bar.

Yeah.

So unless you're listed or unless you're in a cocktail, and most people order the cocktail, so that is kind of how I look at it. Like, great, it's great to have something and maybe you see it in like a Cachet account or something and it's up there, but, um, well, that's where it's very hard to move product that way.

I was a wholesaler for 10 years. I was with Breakthrough for 10 years. So that's how I know Jason, by the way. So we would do our brands a disservice by getting them distribution everywhere because they're like, okay, what is the universe of accounts that Tito's are in? I'm like, 1,000. They're like, I want to be in 80% of those accounts. We're like, okay. And we go out and we get 80% of Tito's in distribution. Guess what happens 6 months later?

Well, they're probably still sitting there.

Still sitting there. I got distribution. You're in charge of pull. I pushed it out there. It's not pulling. So what you're saying is, if I can get on a menu, if I can go to create the pull and the opportunity for the brands, I always talk about Adam's friend, but he says, "I don't go into a bar unless they put me on the menu and they put me some type of point of sale." That tells people that I'm here. And he goes, I just moved down the line because there's no reason. If this is gonna— if they're just gonna put me in there for a favor, there's no reason. But as a distributor, we did everybody a disservice because we would go chase those numbers. I want to do 200 accounts in Q3 and, uh, pods. I'm like, okay. And then I'm putting incentive, buy one, get one. That is— that's just like, I'd rather you spend your money on reorders, your money on activations, your money on events versus paying the distributor incentive. I'm not saying don't pay the distributor incentive, but maybe pay them an incentive to do like a reorder. order or an event. Like, if you get me on the menu and you take a picture of the menu and it's a permanent menu, I'll give you $50. I don't know what you think about that, but it's something I think—

The days of incentivizing, I think, you know, for us, obviously what you do and how we end up talking, right, is having like your own salespeople market. I think the days of being able to incentivize— we've tried that. Like, there's so many that we were lost. I believe at the time that we tried incentivizing like a big distributor, they had 460 incentives running. So like, it just gets lost in the I think having your own people and making sure they're aligned. And when I say my own people, it's too expensive for any emerging brand to hire their own full-time salespeople. So finding this opportunity to find shared salespeople that have like a complementary carry, a complementary bag, I think that's the key. Yeah.

And there's a lot of good people out there.

And then having them aligned.

And there's a lot of good people out there. We founded the Beverage Broker Network. I guess I'm plugging it a little bit. You should check it out. There's a lot of great brokers out there across North America, brands like you can plug into depending where you want to go. Obviously, we have a business that does that too, but it's an open network for brands like you because why go pay a full-time employee where you could take advantage of someone's expertise? And if they meet what you're looking for, because you'll obviously talk to them, it's like if they meet what you want, right? You want them to be able to talk about the brand and really replicate what your effort is, right? And if you can build that, those ambassadors that you want to build, which I think is a great approach, that's going to pay you dividends in the long term and get you where you want to go. What's next? So a couple questions, um, and we started late and I apologize, it was my fault, my, my microphone wasn't working. But what do you see next for the category, number one? And then I want to back it up with the question is Is there anything that we discussed today that you would like to bring to the audience to convey?

Yeah, I love that. I'm gonna say first, the category, I think you see shifts. Obviously, you see shifts in drinking, you see shifts, and I think people do care more about what they are drinking. And I think there's kind of like less, but but better, you know, this moderation. I think you're gonna see things. I think you're gonna see different drink strategies of going to, like, now I just feel like you have a lot of this, like, either no-alc or full-alc, but maybe this kind of, like, low-alc. Like, how do you come up with drinks that are maybe, like, somewhere in between?

Right.

But still using, like, you still use foolproof, great, you know, spirits in it, but, like, how do you make something that's maybe, like, a little less boozy? I think that's, like, a really interesting one and, like, something we play around with cocktail-wise.

a lot. Right.

Although it's like this total dichotomy, because you have that and then you have all these like the most explosive RTDs are the ones that are like really have like higher, higher proof. So I don't understand where we're at exactly with that. That's why it's like there's a yin and a yang to everything in this. But, and I do see this, I think this like kind of craft, you know, craft brand growth will continue, that you'll see more and more craft brands and probably some also dropping out because it is so competitive. I think there's going to be some differentiator, some story, something unique about it that resonates with people. I think gone are kind of the days where like, I had a life-changing trip to Mexico and decided to start a tequila company.

Yeah.

Like that, I don't think is going to like work anymore because there's just too many of those. And I think the celebrity is dwindling too. I think people are getting less and less enamored because there's just so many. And there was like this, like every celebrity put their name on a brand that actually, I believe consumer sentiment last year was like, it was like down like 19% or something like that about around celebrity brands.

Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't discount celebrities. We talked to a lot of them. for sure, but I think it's celebrity brands that are willing to do the work like you and I, right? Are they willing to go to the events and work it? If it's just a celebrity name and they're just pasting their name and they're not gonna work the brand, it doesn't mean anything with the consumers. I also think you're onto this craft thing. I think people wanna do, like, the best approach I would take a brand like you or anybody that has a brand is like, I'm a local brand, you're a local operator. Why wouldn't you give me an opportunity to actually be part of your menu? You know, not taking away from the big guy. I understand people are looking for that, but I'm a local person. I'm an entrepreneur just like you that I have a dream and I'm going to support my brand. And I think more people are open to that.

That's what we hope. And we're additive. Like, it's, it's an additive, you know, addition because Maybe more people who are looking for something. It doesn't mean that they're still not going to call out like the big celebrity brands we know and still get drinks with that. But hey, here, offer something. You could put something on there, you know. People, people in Chicago especially, they like really resonate with like, you know, local Chicago. They have an affinity towards our pizza, our hot dogs, everything, you know.

Right.

Um, and what I would say to other people, my message is that talk to someone who has kind of done that. Like, listen, there are a lot of people, a lot of consultants, advisors, which is great. Um, but I would also talk to someone who's like actually started a brand to really understand what is involved. I was fortunate I reached out. I had other founders. Even if they tried to dissuade me, I still went, you know, I went into it and decided to do it, but a little with Eyes more open. So a lot of people reach out to me, but only reach out to me if you really want like the hard truth. Like, if you want it sugarcoated, be like, this is easy or whatever. If you want to know that I work like the kind of hours I work and that yesterday I drove to, you know, Elgin first to pick up a purchase order and then drive to Cicero and then come back and then drive to Evanston and then Deerfield. And like, if you want to know what like the reality is that I was like the delivery truck as well.

I know. I think you messaged me like at 9 o'clock last night or something. It was—

Yeah.

Late in the day. It's like, yeah, I've had my day. So your day, obviously I could tell, went really, um, really long. But yeah, that's what it takes. It takes effort. And what's wonderful as a founder, you're willing to talk to other founders, which I— that's one thing I love about this community is I meet so many folks like you, Alicia and I do, and, and they're all open to share their experiences with others, which I think's Says something about our category, I think, and what it means. It is.

And I also just talk to other consumer product founders to learn about, because I think you can learn from like other verticals also. And I'm a big believer in peer-to-peer mentoring. I think someone who's like in the thick of it understands it. I'm very fortunate. I have like a very big group of like female founders in general and consumer products and female founders, then female founders in spirits. I, I love meeting anyone new because like I feel like I know most of the women who started, you know, a spirits brand. And then I just have my, like, other spirits founders too, men and women. And, like, we reach— like, I get texts all the time. Someone just asked me, like, hey, how's Whole Foods going? What are you doing to make it work? Whatever. And I'm like, oh, here's what I— like, but I just think you have to be willing to be, like, super honest and open. And I don't glamorize it at all. No one's ever gonna hear me being like, oh yeah, it's so easy. And we're— and when people, like, send me a message, like, you're crushing it, I'm like, I feel like I'm being crushed. So.

Well, our business has been a man's world too. It's funny. I think it's really important. I love to see women be successful in our industry. I'm a big fan of that. Obviously, I'm very blessed to have a woman partner and our— my leader, Alicia. It's funny, we got— she got a message yesterday and I didn't get— I wasn't copying a message from another woman founder brand in California and reached out for Alicia. And it kind of read like, hey Alicia, I want to catch up. And you know, before I talk to Sam and other people, let's have a conversation. I didn't— I took that fine because I think there's a trust there, right? Because, which is important. And I think the work you're doing to lift other people up and you're sharing and learning and also being innovative and looking outside the box, because I'm like, yeah, you should— if you do events, go to beverage events. And you're like, no, I go to tech events, you know, and I talk to— because I'm the only one there. I'm not fighting for share of mind or stomach with my brand. Is there anything that we didn't discuss today that you want to convey? And I do have an important question I have to ask you at the end, but anything else you want to convey?

I think, you know, we both know this is not for the faint of heart. You have to be willing to put in the hard work. But I think building the community besides the hard work, it's a lonely journey as an entrepreneur. You're lucky you have a partner in this because like that, like, is helpful being a solo entrepreneur. But I think having building the community, finding community to support you, So you have those people to bounce ideas off of, to find, to guide you to like, here's another resource, here's where you can go. I think it's really, really essential, um, because you have to like— I feel like, you know, your friends and family only want to hear about this so much, if at all.

Yeah.

So having a community of people, um, to reach out to and build— I mean, that's where I think you can utilize LinkedIn so effectively. and really find people. I mean, I put on— you probably saw that— I put on— it was, it was legit. I put on a shelf blade. I gave people 3 different messages and 3 different design looks, and I wanted the votes, like, right? I don't want to make this decision in a vacuum without knowing people.

Yeah.

I had like hundreds of comments. People had lots of opinions, you know, about like which shelf blade was the most— I was like, oh my God. And everyone was like different, but like I read every single one of them and I was able to like kind of narrow it down, like, oh, you know what, This photo, photo of the cocktail over just the bottle, that resonated more. More people said that messaging, I took it and tweaked it. Like, it was really helpful. And so I feel like even putting yourself out there and asking for help and guidance, people, you know, I love giving feedback. People love to get feedback and advice. So I would say like, ask for it.

That's amazing. And what's next for the brand and you?

Yeah, you know, I think continuing to build. finding some people in certain markets to help us. I think that's going to be essential, like finding some key markets, people on the ground who can really help us, especially with, you know, on-premise. I think of it as like a much higher-touch channel. Off-premise, we do a lot of chain, so it's a little bit different because we can kind of do that more remotely and program and do that. But for the on-premise, having people that are like building it out, Yeah. Building it out more. And then our kind of focus on our very specific states. And listen, my home market is always going to be the most important to me because this is where I live, where I am, where my family is. Everyone, this is where we go out to eat. So this is why it's so important to me that we have a really big presence in my own backyard.

Yeah. And you're building that presence, right? Breakthrough helping you do that, or you have to really press them to do it?

You know, they're helping also because I think now they know like how active— like, we are the most responsive small team. I think they're like fascinated. Like, my head of sales, Erica, did 3 work withs just in the last, uh, 2 weeks. And I— when we went to the trade show, it was like—

You got on the work with schedule. Good for you.

Yeah.

How many months out did you have to put it?

I know. But you know what was the best is that the woman who, one of the women who she did the work with came up to our booth. She's like, oh my gosh, you were the most responsive. Like she had already done a recap, reached out, thanked every like account, followed up. Like that follow-up, that's the like key. And the fact that as a really small team we respond. Someone's like, hey, I mean, account yesterday, so can you do a table time? Like, yes, done. Like, we can get that right away, you know? Like, yeah, we're small but really scrappy. And I think also that's helpful to get distributors on your side when they realize like how responsive—

I mean, yeah, I mean, the worst thing you do is you meet with that rep and then they call you, you never follow up and do something for them, they'll forget about you. But so you're, you're, you're responsive and you're getting what they need because that helps them, right? So they see that and then they're more apt to support you. So next time they're walking around with their bag, they're going to remember what you did for them.

Totally. And even like, we sent a deck to present to like a retail account and we got the feedback that it was like one of the best decks they've ever seen. And they get them from like all these big brands and we put together, it was like, because we do it personalized, no one's gonna take time like to that specific, you know, account and why and why we fit and why we want it. And that's like, so those kinds of things, feedback like that from our distributors, I think that's what helps. Um, you know, get them on board.

Yeah, that's amazing. How do people find you?

Yes, well, first connect with me on LinkedIn because I— that's my jam. Mara Smith on LinkedIn. Uh, follow Inspiro Tequila, um, on all social media platforms that luckily no one puts me in control of or in charge of because I'm not good at social media. Um, @inspirotequila. Find us on, um, you know, inspirotequila.com. We ship all over the country, um, or find us locally because we love if you could buy us locally.

Are you in all the Benny's stores in Chicago?

We're in, we're in many of them. We're not in all of them. We're in all the Taft Tequila stores. I think we're in like almost all the Jewel-Osco's. We're in all the Whole Foods here, um, Sunset Foods. We're in some other like independent stores too.

How many, how many varieties of the, um, of your brand do you have? Do you have like an añejo, blanco? Yes.

We really have 2 core expressions. We have our Luna Blanco, our blanco that's rested in bourbon barrels. And then we have our Rosa Reposado, our reposado that's aged in rosé wine barrels. And then we had a very limited special edition añejo. We only had 4 barrels full of it. And we're not aging any of it right now. So it was like a kind of a one-time limited thing. It's crazy, insanely good. But that is 4 months in rosé wine barrels, 15.5 months in French Pinot Noir barrels, and it's cask strength, 44% ABV. But we had a very, like, even here, there are only like 2 binnies that even carry it here. So you can buy it online and then very few places. We just don't have a lot.

That's got to be the way to go in a lot of ways. You do some limited releases and stuff and make them special.

Yeah.

Which is really cool. What's, uh, any, uh, any new innovation coming down the line you want to share with anybody? Anything happening?

So, you know, it's kind of funny, we've talked a lot about me being very disciplined and focused on things. Obviously you could tell I have this like accounting, legal background. But, um, I'd say so we're very skewed disciplined. So no, not coming up with like new expressions, but I think some new sizes. So when we get this new production run out, we're really excited. We're gonna have a 375 Um, ML and a mini 50 ml that is an exact replica of our big bottle, which people love our bottles and it's like so cute and it's like an exact replica of our bottle. So I think that could, you know, great for trial. Like I get asked for so many things or gift bags or parties or whatever. And like, you know, you can't really put a 750 ml in there. So I think that, um, will provide a lot of opportunities to get more people to see and try the product.

Like, can you go online and order like, like hats?

We do. We have We do. We, uh, we do. We have swag on our— we have really cute— well, as you know, I'm always drinking like either coffee or matcha, so we have really cool coffee mugs. It's like coffee now, tequila later. We have one that's a matcha one. So we have, um, a lot of mugs. We have a yoga mat. We have like a bunch of different things. Sweatshirts. Yes.

Oh, that's awesome. Okay, now I have to— I haven't asked the most important question, uh, so this we ask everybody that comes on. What is the difference between success and failure?

I think I'm hopefully going to give you a little bit of a different answer. I think it's perspective. I think everyone perceives success and failure differently. And so what I would perceive is like, you know, maybe someone who looks really successful, they may also see that as that they don't feel successful yet. So I think it's so much of like how you view things. And because when I thought about this question, I am someone who's really terrible at celebrating the wins and is always looking at like, what do we need to do better? Where do we need to be at next? And so I'm someone who I can't imagine—

You're not celebrating the moment.

No. I'm always the person like looking, what's next? How can we be better? What can I do better? What do we not do? You know, where do we need to be? Um, so I'm someone who I don't think would ever be like, oh, this is like so successful. I think it's— oh, I would always be like, what's next? Not that I think failure, but I would think what's— and then I also think there's so many different forms of success, and I try and remind myself of that too. So that's why I think it's also perspective. Let's say you and I both have, you know, our 3 kids. Is that— for me, is that success? If I have 3 kind, good people as children, that could be my success. So, um, that's why I just think it's all about like your perspective and what you think is success.

I, I, I love that. Um, I love that. I appreciate you sharing that with me. And it's— we ask that question everybody, and that's an answer that we have not gotten yet. So it is, it is new. And if that drives you, what keeps you going? Like, so you have perspective besides caffeine. Yeah, I haven't had my matcha. I told you on the text last night, or I might get my matcha. I didn't make my matcha, but you do iced matcha. I do mine warm, and I I do too.

I make ceremonial grade everything. I take the whisk, the whole thing, the bowl, the whisk.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, every single morning. That's my, like, routine. That's the only thing I do that's like routine. Um, I just like cold drinks. Um, what keeps me going is really when I get the positive, like, feedback. So the reason— another reason why when we're talking about, like, doing events and things, I love doing consumer-facing events. Because consumers are like, you're giving them tastes of like a delicious, you know, drink and they're happy. And they give you, you know, when I get this like positive, like, oh my gosh, I never thought I could drink. Literally yesterday, I can't drink tequila, I drink vodka, tequila I can't drink it. And I give them a neat pour, I'm like, just try, just try the blanco. And they're like, oh my gosh, I can drink it. Those are the things, that consumer feedback, that is That's literally what drives me. Like, sometimes people like Erica's like, okay, you wanna do more events? Like, you really wanna do, or more demos, like standing in more stores doing demos? I'm like, I like that 'cause I get like the one-on-one feedback. You know, going into trade is much more difficult. You don't get the warm and fuzzies. Like, people kind of look at you. I'm like, and? Like, they don't wanna give you a read on them. Like—

Right.

You like it? You don't like it? What do you think? You know, because it's a negotiating tactic. But consumers just give you this great real feedback. And that is totally what keeps me going. That's literally why I pop up unannounced to my local grocery store and will show up on a Saturday and just stand there just to have people try it, just so I can talk to people and hear what they think.

Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining today. Sorry we had some technical difficulties to get going. And it was It was me the whole time.

Not a problem.

90% of the time it is. Someone hit my phone or the computer. I didn't know it shut off, but that's what makes it fun to go live, raw, and real. I'll ask you to remain on the line. I don't know if you have any closing thoughts. Please share.

No, just I appreciate what you do for the industry and everyone who's trying to help, like, emerging brands. And that means a lot. And just people connect, like find guidance along the way. That's like my only thing is that I'm fortunate. And just also be open to taking it. I think I put my— I position myself as a learn-it-all and not a know-it-all. And just being inquisitive and wanting to learn more doesn't mean you have to like follow everything. You need to like, you know, go through because you're gonna get so much advice, right? I got like 100 comments on a shelf blade. I can't take everybody's. So you have to like, you're not gonna take everybody's opinions, but I think just listening and being open to like listening and getting a lot of like feedback is really helpful.

No, I love that perspective, by the way, to be open to learn. Also, you taught me something incredible that I'll probably take. I mean, I've learned so much the last 4 years doing this podcast, but when I go talk to other founders, you know, we're always like, go do a beverage event. And you really opened my eyes to something that's an opportunity. Which is really amazing. And we learn so much, you know, from founders like you. And I think it's wonderful that you share with other founders. You know, I wouldn't be where I'm at. Matter of fact, when I opened up my first, uh, um, business as an entrepreneur, it was a company called Drink. And I remember talking to other people that did it and they're like, well, you got to do an SOW. I'm like, what's an SOW? A scope of work. I'm like, what is— so how does that work? Oh, I'll send you over my scope of work. And Everybody was so open about sharing and learning. And that's what I, at least the exposure I've had with people on all sides of this industry, from, you know, service providers to distributors to suppliers to founders to accounts. I, I truly believe that people like to see people win, at least in this business. And that's what I love about it. And I love your energy and, and I'm gonna get my matcha today.

Thank you.

And I wanna thank everybody for, uh, being here and, uh, riding the roller coaster with Myra and I.

Thank you. I can give one last tip. I forgot my lawyer tip. Do not sign bad contracts. I see a lot, a lot, a lot of really bad contracts. Do not sign bad contracts.

All right, guys, it's interesting you say that. Does anyone ask for 10 years of your, um, revenue if you leave or something like that?

But, uh, I mean, just like you see them all over. People pull down stuff like— you can't just pull agreements off like a ChatGPT. Like, it takes Eyeballs and legalize and just don't— I think a lot of times like small brands feel like they have to be, they're gonna be strong, whatever the agreement with whoever, and they don't have any negotiating power. And I just think you always have to negotiate and make sure you can't sign on to things that you may have to live with for a really, really long time.

That is a great point. And if they're trying to get you to sign something that is basically not going to allow you to do something for your business and don't do it.

Yes. So I just see too much of it.

Yeah, I bet. All right, I'm gonna hit stop. Please remain on the line. And then, uh, uh, thank everybody. Have a great Saturday. Sorry we were running late, and, uh, we'll see you next week.