Revisited: Lake Bell with Santigold

Josh.

Hello and welcome to the Talkhouse Podcast. I'm Josh Modell. Today we're resurfacing a fantastic episode from 2019, both in case you missed it way back then, and because I want to bring your attention to one of the guests in particular. It's a chat between actor Lake Bell and musician multi hyphenate Santigold, in which they talk about balancing family life and creative work, among many other things. Check it out. And when you're done, check out Santigold's own podcast, Noble Champions, which is part of the Talkhouse Podcast Network.

She.

She just launched season two with an episode featuring John Jennings and Terrence Nance in a great conversation about Afrofuturism. And the rest of season two is shaping up awesome with guests like Shailene Woodley, Flea Tunde, Anabempe, Yassin Bey, and many more. It's a fantastic listen. So check it out and I'll see you next week with a new Talkhouse episode.

Okay, we're gonna get into it.

You wanna talk about that? Yeah.

Here we go. This is what we're gonna do. Okay. Santi.

Hello.

It's Lake. It's Santi. We're alive. Just kidding. We're not. But that would be crazy if somehow we can manifest as being live in life and ways like, I feel like we're live. We're allowed to talk about anything we want. We have known each other since New York through the one and only Scott Campbell.

Really?

Basically our honeys.

Yes.

Knew each other, Right? And then we met.

Yes.

Wouldn't you say that's how we met?

That's definitely how we met. Yeah.

Yeah. I just remember being, like, doing SoulCycle in Brooklyn with you.

I know. Yes.

Or trying to.

No. Cause Scott was like, I'm having a baby. You guys just had a baby. Come meet Lake.

Go talk to each other.

Yes. And I was like, anything you need. You know, as soon as you have a baby, you become like, I can help you.

I know. Well, I think that I was always sort of intrigued with you because I'm a huge fan of yours. But I also was like, okay, so there's a super prolific mom now. Like, here's a woman who's like, you know, making beautiful art and, like, achieving her dreams and plowing forth on something that is, like, deeply unique. But then now I'm going to also create life.

I know it's a whole crazy.

And you're like, how do you. You were the first person I was like, how are we gonna do this?

I know. But you. You.

We're doing it.

You shifted into, like, third gear immediately. I was like, what? I mean, you're, like, speaking, popping out babies, and then you had your second one before I did. And then. And then.

But then you doubled down. Then I doubled down and made twins.

Yeah, but then you were, like, directing and, like, you know, acting and, like, right away.

Well, I definitely feel like it's super not easy. And I never pretend that it is. You know what I mean? I think there was a real trend for a second to make it seem like it was easy.

Right?

Like, you know, people would curate the photos and curate the sort of artifacts of their existence to sort of show that they're doing it all, you know? And then something happened where the trend became like, dude, I gotta come clean. You know what I'm saying? Like, this shit is hard, right? And that's kind of where I am. And thank God, because I wanna say again and again, don't you agree that, like. Cause you're a creator of original thought and sounds. Right. And I feel I am also like a writer. Creator of original content. How I am curious at this juncture, because we haven't really gotten into it since.

No. Because we always never keep our hang dates. Because it's impossible.

Because we can't keep a hang date.

Exactly.

So now that I finally have you here, how are you? Because now you have three kids. Okay, so you win. How is it that you're managing? What are some of the things that you're doing? This is a genuine question for me. And then I'll get. We'll trade secrets.

Okay. The truth is that I always feel like I'm barely managing, really. And I have a lot of right now. It would not be possible to do anything. Like, I have so many hands helping me right now. Do you know what I mean? Whether it's like. Especially because I just did three weeks away on the road, which was crazy.

Did you take the kids on tour?

I came home for four days and it was kind of like, great. And also the biggest mistake, because I got no sleep and I have to sit. So it's like. It's like, you know, you have to act like an athlete when you're singing because you have to take care of your body. And, you know, with twins who are. One, you're not really sleeping, they're teething. So I came home and it was like, oh, my God. So luckily I only had a couple shows because my voice started to get bad after that.

It started to crack up and stuff.

Yeah, it was just like. I just. I felt it. Like, it was like, okay, that's what you get. You didn't sleep. So, yeah, you need, like, help, you know? And it's like, with the twins, it's never enough because literally, one's running in one direction, one's running in the other, one's climbing up something, trying to go head first off of something. One's, like, about to put a cord in their mouth. I have a boy and a girl.

Oh, you owe a twin.

But then you have Radek, and I have two boys. And Radek's jumping off swings and breaking his arm at the same time. So he's like five. So he's just like, look at me, like, if you're paying attention. So, you know, I had, like, my mom there, and, like, my friend Hope's going over every day, and then we have, like, nannies. And then Trevor basically was able to clear his schedule. And it's just like. I mean, I look at, like, single mom friends I have. Oh, my God. And I'm like, even with one. And just to be. You know, and not really. I don't know how it's possible. I look at moms with twins who don't have any help. I'm like, I don't know how you do it.

That's when you realize it's like having kids and being like a creative, like, generator of thought or something, you know, under that umbrella, it's virtually like. It's kind of like, not sustainable to be firing on all cylinders. Like, you can't. You either get sick or you. The quality of the work that you're putting out takes a hit, you know? Or the quality of your parenting and.

Momming takes a hit exactly like, you cannot. I remember talking to Mike D about this from the Beast Boys a while back, and he was just like, actually, like, you never really feel like you're doing the proper balance. And I was like, really? But, like, I totally get it. Like, something is always being sacrificed, you know? And it's not always a bad thing because I've been like, honestly, I've. So I was saying, you know, with all that help, I still don't have enough help. I don't have enough time. I don't have enough sleep. I have no creative time. So it's like, it's still an uphill battle, but I am doing it.

I know you are affecting it.

You know what I mean? So it's like, so you're doing it and you're just getting it done, and that's Got to be good enough. It's like, you know, it might not be getting done the way you want. The kids might not be eating what you want. Everybody might be sick, and you might miss this or whatever. And then sometimes you might not be there for the stuff you want to be there for. Like, I missed the first Kid Row concert, and I was like, you know, like, that's. Our kids are in a band. Yeah.

This is a really cool rock and roll for kids. Because obviously that's the right thing to do. And all little toddlers should be, like, rocking out. Cause it's the one place where there are no rules.

But. But, yeah. So you do feel like there's definitely sacrifices, but at the same time, like, I'm a kind of, like, OCD tendency, you know?

I don't know the type.

Well, I think a lot of us are. You know what I mean? It's like this, like, the drive, I think, also goes with that personality type.

And the audacity to think that you could, like, do all the things. Because I do feel like you. You probably rev at a higher rpm, you know what I mean? You're like. You're like. A lot of cylinders are firing at all times.

And then because of that, too, then you don't sleep when you can sleep, because you're like, I gotta do this and I gotta do this.

Oh, my God, me too.

You know the worst?

It's the. That I think for any insomniac, whether you're like a mother or a father or whatever, you know, or just a creative. Like, if you're somebody whose brain is constantly functioning and you finally get the opportunity to rest the brain, and then the brain is just like. Yeah.

And it's not even. Sometimes it's, like, with excitement, and sometimes it's with, like, a list of things to do. And sometimes you're just like, I'm behind everyone else is doing it. And, you know, it's just craziness. So what I'm saying is this crazy moment and place in our lives is actually a really great opportunity to evolve as, like, a spirit. Do you know what I mean? Because I feel like being that type of brain, it's not all the way great, because for me, I think I need to learn how to, like, let go a little bit. And I think that's a better life, you know? Sure.

Yeah. That's a path that feels right.

Yeah. I don't think it's good to be all revved up like that all the time. And I don't think you need to be like that, to even achieve the things. And maybe you could have like a better quality of, you know, experience without the stress and without. And still get things done. And so that's like the challenge for me.

Yeah. And.

And I think to learn how to navigate that is also learning how to like, let things kind of flow.

Yeah. Which is really, really fun.

I'm not trying to fix everything either.

Do you, in your creative process, when you're like, you know, when you start to kind of get. Percolate and, you know, the creative juices of, you know, maybe a new song or a new album or just even a new sound or a new melody, you know, how does that. How does that happen for you usually? And obviously it's probably. I mean, for me it really changed from before having children to after having children.

Different.

Yeah. Like now in the space, you find.

Yeah. I almost don't even know about when it's gonna happen. No, I almost.

You're still figuring it out.

Yeah. So, like, since. Well, after Radek, that was one thing, because that was my baby. Yeah, that was. Sorry. Yes. One baby named Radek. And so he's almost five. And so when he was. By the time he turned two, he turned two on the road because I had made a record right after having him. And by the time he was two, it was time to tour. And so I don't even remember how that happened, but I remember being home by 6:30 every day. You know, it was just a different thing. Whereas before that it was like, you know, I'm in creative mode. It's like up all night, sleep till 11. You know what I mean? Whenever it hits, you're there. And then after Radek, it was like you go and then you come home at a certain time so you can spend time with your kids. But now, like, there's been a couple of things where I've written some songs and I was writing with a friend of mine who I've known and been writing with for 20 years. So it's like he knows me so well, he knows what sounds I like. So it was kind of a really special situation, but it was like our sessions were from 12 noon to 4pm and we would get in, we would bullshit for like an hour and a half, eat, talk. And then I'd be like, we better hurry up. And he's like, we only need 10 minutes. And sure enough, by the time we like, kind of got a sound going, it didn't even have to be that developed, just like a vibe. Then I put on my Headphones. And then he called it blackin out. And he's like, you're just gonna black out, and then we're gonna have the song. And that's how it worked. It was like Blackout, which is me singing just freestyle melody. And then within 10 minutes, we're like, cool, we got it. You know, and not to say the song was finished, but we got, like, the whole melody, understand it? And I know I can go and just write the lyrics. And then we got it. It's almost like forced efficiency.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

That's 100% what I would agree with. Which is, like, you do. It's a blessing in a way, for somebody who has just. In a creative sense, it's like forced deadlines or forced efficiency, you know, where you're just like, this is the time that I have allocated for this. And so it doesn't feel sexy, and it doesn't feel, like, languid and cool and creat, but actually, shit's gonna get generated.

Yeah. And so I was gonna. Because I didn't realize you were just. You've been writing so much. And like, last night I was like, I know she did this, but this she wrote. I didn't know you wrote the pilot. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I was just like, where is she getting away? How is she getting away? Cause I know that's what it takes. You have to, like. You cannot even get a house.

Yeah. I mean, you do know that as we sit in your cool studio, that I feel like you have to do it.

They were like, do you want to do this at the house? And I was like, we can't do it at house.

It's impossible. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. No, that's why when they said we.

Were doing, like, a little cry or something, you're like, what happened?

Oh, totally. I mean, my. My. My parents. My kids would come in and they'd be like, we. You know, there's no way.

There's just.

I can't get anything possible. I. And like, you, I have kind of like a private writing studio. It's like a office. And it's kind of moot because it's in my house. So anytime I'm in there, it's like, mommy. You know, it's like, what are you doing? You know, it's like, can I come in just for a second? No, you can't come in. You know, but I have to tell you something, you know, and it's like, very sweet. And you're like, all right, come in. And then.

No. And Then you want to and then.

It'S like you need to. And then it's just the worst in terms of the cycle of inefficiency. But yeah, the writing thing is really hard. I totally have to allocate times to dedicate to it. And then when I'm writing on the show, I go to an office, which is like the only way it could function. But I remember a distinct difference between making in a world which was like, I was single, I was just like, Scott and I were just in romance land. And I felt like utterly like every hour of the day, if it had to be, could be dedicated to the art. And I do, until I don't. I had a one year old, you know.

Right.

And then Scott got into a motorcycle accident. Like, remember a couple weeks, I think it was like the week before I started shooting. And thankfully he was okay. But it was like that and.

With a one year old.

With a one year old, yeah. And that was like a real shift in kind of like just having the one year old, really. I mean, Scott's incredible and like the most high functioning person I have ever sort of been in the same room with. So, you know, he is a miraculous in kind of persevering under all odds, you know. And I feel like, yeah, I'm a worrier. Yeah, I'm neurotic. Yeah, I've got way too many thoughts when my head hits the pillow at night, you know, and especially when I'm in prep mode on a film that I've written and I'm directing and that I'm starring in. You know, it's like there is so much. And I remember on top of it then being concerned about Nova now this other entity, this other little like magical person that I am responsible wholly, you know, and that was a real conflict in the creative process because I had to emotionally prepare to move away from momming and like put ostensibly a lot of my momming into directing. Because you're at the, you know, you're responsible for 100 people and you know, you have to answer every question. I mean, it's a lot like being a parent in a way. And I just felt like that experience was extremely challenging. And then when I finally got on the other side of the editing in the post production of I do until I don't, I was too pregnant with then Ozzy to go and promote it.

Right.

So I got like, that movie was the hardest for me.

Okay, there's a couple things I want to say about that. First of all, that's insane and do you know, like, there's so few women who can share that experience with you, you know, like 1 year old, writing a film, just finished directing the film and acting in the film.

Yeah.

And you're pregnant. So you were pregnant when you were shooting.

I didn't. No, I was pregnant. I got pregnant.

Oh, editing.

Yeah, editing. And then I have to say, I did take too much time editing it, maybe. I just like. But I had the luxury of editing for a long time. But then I was like so big by the time the movie actually came out, you know.

Right. Then you can go on the.

Yeah. Like. And you know, we were like, oh, you know, you got accepted to dry Becca. And it's like, oh, but you can't go. So it doesn't. You can't promote the movie. Yeah. So then it was all of a sudden this thing of, well, I can't get on a plane to go promote it. You know, it's like, I can't stand up for my film baby. That I poured all this energy into. And it was. And it was okay. Cause I was like, I was really. Look, my second birth was really. And so I think I just sort of was thankful. It sort of puts everything in. To perspective, you know, when you have kiddos. Because, you know, in our industry, you know, it's kind of like everything's so important, you know, and then you realize it is important in. At a level. And then there's just life and death and your progeny and like what that is, you know.

Right.

So. So I think it is humbling and putting, you know, and puts it in perspective. But.

Well, I mean. But you did that.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, no matter what. No matter what, you squeezed out a movie that you wrote, directed, and starred in in between having two babies.

Yeah. And I'm super proud of that movie. And it's like a lot of people haven't seen that movie.

I started watching it last night.

Yeah, it's funny, but it's like, because in a world with so, like, you know, with your first album or something, it's like when you first put something out, the energy towards that thing is more.

It's new, it's a new.

It's new. It's exciting.

Look.

What's that sparkly thing that that person does? Oh, that's interesting. I've never seen that coming out of that person.

Right.

And so there is a different kind of reception. Yeah. And then you're, you know, it's like you always know you're gonna put something else out there. And then like, oh, wait, is it as good as the first one?

And then you put your third out, and then that whole thing's in the past and you just keep going.

And then they're like, she' I know.

I remember I talked to Karen O about that from the EAA as I remember when I was putting out my second record, and I remember her saying something like, she thought she was gonna die when she was putting out her second record. Cause I had a really hard time on my second record. And then you moved past it. And then you just keep going from there. And you'll never be new again. I know, but you'll be around and you can be brilliant forever. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can keep doing things.

I think you can be original forever. Right? Like, you can always be truthful to your. And regardless of, like, your second album is still holistically, you. Like, my second film is still intrinsically everything, you know, it's all. It is inherently all me, you know, and it's like if that. If your second album was your first album, that. That's the one that came out.

It's like, I. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily matter about the reception right away anyway. You know, I know it's long term. Yeah. Cause I. Nowadays there's just too much out, you know, it's just too much. So you're not gonna necessarily always. It's like, so to keep attention, to keep people's attention. And I don't know that it matters as much. I mean, of course it matters to, like, people giving you money, and it matters to, like, stuff like that. But, like, I mean, people find things that they connect to, and if it's something really special, they just keep finding it and it lasts. But, you know, one thing I wanted to say before, when you were talking about having to share your mommy attention between being a mommy to the kids and a mommy to the movies. The one thing that I did notice, though, it's like, it's hard to step away, but at the same time, it's, like, so special when you get to be yourself again in the superpower. Yeah. You're like, oh, yeah, this is who I am. You know, not that you're not a mom, you know, but just because you have babies doesn't mean all of a sudden you're like this mom that, like, fits in the box of being a mom. There's certain things like, that some moms do easily that I don't do easily. Like, I don't really like, bath time when the, when they're babies, it makes me very nervous. Nervous because I can't relax. Like they're cute and everything.

Visually it's cute.

Right? But I get very nervous, you know.

And like, I'm having so much fun. Please, please don't die. Yeah.

Especially when they can't hold their head up. That part's really scary. But like, there's a lot of things. Because I have a lot of anxiety, so there's like a lot. Like I'm not. I don't like crying like a little bit crying when it's not that serious. But if I hear like big crying, I'm like, what happened? Everyone, they're a baby. And I'm like, but they shouldn't be crying for this.

But you don't like tantrums? I don't understand. I know, I know. I think, I think there is a really beautiful and one a mom should never feel. A parent, a dad, whatever. Shouldn't feel guilty for feeling. And I do feel like Scott is better about not feeling so guilty, going to work and being like, no, this is like self care. I need to go out of this house. This domesticity.

I feel like it's easier for men to turn that part off. I don't know. I mean, that might be a blanket statement, but I don't know.

That's the thing that I'm always delicate with. Cause I'm like, here's the deal. It's like, I think Scott would 100% sort of admit he's like, when he is home, he's fully at home.

No, Trevor too. Trevor's like such a dad.

Incredible. Both Trevor and Scott are like, we are doing this with you, you know, And I appreciate that because I know it's not the case for every woman, but I do find it harder to kind of peel myself away and take and not feel the guilt to go away and do me, you know? And that I think might be sort of linked to being a mom.

I think so too. Cause I feel the exact same way. But at the same time, I think this sort of survival and like fighter part, I'm like, I get like, cut it off. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just like. Like I can't. Like, I almost have to disengage in a way. Like where?

Wait, what do you mean?

Like from like. Like if I have something to do, like, I can't. I have to. I have to like turn off something and be like, I'm not gonna focus on that right now. I can't even Think about it right now. You mean I can't do my job?

Like if you have a work thing to do.

If I have a work thing to.

Do, I have to disengage with mommy home?

Yes, a little bit. You know, not like in any long term way, but like, okay, for example, if I'm trying to do something and Trevor tries to. Cause Trevor's a facetimer, like he always wants to facetime with the babies and I have to be like, not right this second. Cause it will just completely just pull me out, you know what I mean? And sometimes you have to preserve that island of creativity. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and people do that even just being in any relationship, you know, I mean, if you take it back to like a Virginia wolf or something, you have to be by yourself forever, you know. But you do need a little bit of space. And even like, even just having a partner, you know, who's just like trying to talk about something, you're like, I gotta do this. Like, not right now.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like with bless this mess, it's a different, like I feel getting into the rhythm of something that is not just like a spurt of energy of creativity. You know, it's. With a movie, it's sort of like sprint, right? You know?

Yeah.

And then everything goes quiet. You know, with TV it's like, you know, this is like a marathon, you know what I mean? Every day going, you know, it's like even from the writing process to the pre production, which is all kind of happening concurrently and then shooting concurrently while the writing is still going in the pre production for the next episode, you know, it's like even with you to.

Be in it too.

Like how I always forget about that. Yes, I'm also in it.

Yeah. So like, because you've been acting for a long time, so does that not so? Like, I can only just say for myself, for example, with the tour, I practice everything else but my part. Like, I don't practice my part. Like I get on stage and I figure it out. While I'm going, I'm like, what are the lyrics to this song? Like, I don't know what will happen.

Do you ever dance forget your lyrics?

All the time.

I've always wondered that.

Oh my God, I never remember my lyrics. Sometimes I'm like, I don't even remember ever writing this song, you know? But. Yeah, but it's like I make no time for practice for myself. So with you as an actor, because it's like so in your body, you know, so you have to not really prepare that much for that part.

I think for films, I prepare a lot with the character that I'm playing. Because, for instance, with Carol in a World and Alice in I Do until I Don't, it was like I had to do a lot of prep work so that when. Cause a movie is. I don't know, there's just. It's a little bit different because I was the sole director. Sole, like creative authority on them. And with tv, I do have shared creative authority with Liz Meriwether, who's my sort of creative partner in it. She's my. We're co creators. We co wrote the pilot, I directed the pilot. But then she and I EP it together. And I think that portion of it makes it kind of more fun, you know. So in terms of preparation for the character, I do, we wrote a character that I felt that is sort of pretty in my pocket, you know, because if I'm gonna sustain it over the course of however long it goes, I wanted something that I could easily access so that I could do all the other things like eping. And what's interesting about TV is like, eping is close to being a director because directors come and go through tv and it's not to disrespect the director's position because I am one, but it just. I understand more now. And I've directed tv, you know, it's like you really do. You come in, you know, and you translate the script from a framework that has already been built.

Right.

You know, you're not building it from nothing.

Right.

So it Already there is a stylistic point of view. Already there's a tonal, comedic everything point of view that's already instilled. So it's like your job is to kind of come in and facilitate that, you know. And so the eps are the ones that actually have so much creative juice on it, because they were there from the beginning. They created the. You know, in our instance, we created the show. So we showrun it.

We.

We make sure that it stays on point.

And with what you guys.

Your original vision tonally.

Yeah. So then I did. Cause I'm really interested in directing and I'm like, I know, moving there, slowly moving there. But right before, before I found out I was even. Well, before I was pregnant, but it was right before we moved to la. I shadowed on Insecure for an episode.

Oh, shit.

I did. So that was my first experience, you know, seeing how it works with tv. Directing is very different than it is really different. Yeah. It's even different. Well, I mean. Cause all I've directed so far is music videos. My own.

Yeah.

So it's like. So I'm like, writing it. Whatever. Yeah. And it's like everything that you just.

Said about tv, I'm like, you should come on. Bless his best shadow and bless his best to see what it's like, because it's really. I mean, because then you have a pal there, and I'll show you the ropes. I would love that.

Summer Records, Winter Records. My first thought was, that's a little shoehorny. Must be too many podcasts out there.

All albums are either summer albums or winter albums. Pet Sounds, summer album. Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Winter album. And Graceland, also a winter album. That is wrong, Craig. You are dead wrong. We'll see about that. Moondance. Never mind. Norman Rockwell. Modern Vampires of the City. Tusk, what's going on? We disagree on a lot of these. And now it's time to debate Summer Album, Winter Album, a musical debate podcast. That's Jody, That's Craig. Each episode, we square off to discuss some of our favorite records. We make our case, A special guest weighs in, and then we get a verdict from the artist. Summer Album, Winter Album. Because when it comes to talking about music, it's really important that someone wins.

Absolutely.

Hey, everyone, it's me, Gabe Gonzalez, the host of We Disrupt this Broadcast, the podcast from the Peabody Awards and the center for Media and Social Impact. We are back for season two, and we're going to talk to creatives behind TV shows like Severance, Shrinking Mo, and Bad Sisters to explore how the most compelling shows are upending the status quo. So listen to We Disrupt this broadcast, now available wherever you get your podcasts.

It's really. It's fun in tv and also, you know, just to speak to. Kind of like going from. Because I do feel like I've been asked the question of, like, why would you go from making, you know, small independent features with very specific tonal qualities to all of a sudden doing network television, you know, and my answer to myself and also to friends is that, like, we were talking about it, I finally have the opportunity to consistently have an audience in a way that's very different than indies. And I love the indie world, and it's forever in my heart. And, like, I will go back there, you know, do it, but why not?

Yeah.

So it's like having the opportunity to, you know, bless this mess is very kind, spirited, and accessible and inclusive to all communities in this country. So it's a little bit like we dabble with sort of politics whilst not talking about it, but looking at cultural politics and kind of what they're. You know, that's an interesting conversation for me to have creatively and especially in a time where I feel kind of helpless, like, what can I do? I can't. Well, I've got this little thing, you know, this is the only thing that I can do is within the framework of sort of comedy. And so if we can use that to kind of infuse even just good, you know, good core values, kind spirit, you know, send people off into their day after ingesting it in a way that's sort of inclusive regardless of, you know, who you voted for or how you feel. It's more just like we all can be human and meet in the middle there at least.

No, that's totally true. I was just talking to somebody this morning about movie marketing actually at the school drop off.

Classic LA parent stuff.

But we were talking about how like it's the same thing where you can make a movie that like really pushes boundaries and has all these great messages and like pushes forward culturally. But if you can't get it in front of the people, like, you know, in the cities, it does. Well, if you can't get it in front of the middle America or wherever, you know, where the politics are different, then it's not going to have the impact that you want it to have because it can't even get to those people. So that's the thing, you're right with TV and with. If you can get a show that's like sort of more broad reaching, then you do get more of an opportunity to do stuff like that.

Exactly. And we take it really seriously. You know, it's like, I also bless this mess is, yes, just like a, you know, a sweet, kind, spirited, silly but earnest comedy. It also, you know, we want to make sure to represent. We are talking about Nebraska, you know, we're talking about middle of the country. And if we are going to discuss farming, we want to stay as authentic as we can within the framework that we have. We want to make sure that our writers room, which is like I'd say 75, 80% from the Midwest or from small towns in America, like in the south or in, you know, we have like Ohio and Michigan and Nebraska all represented in there and Minnesota. And so I think it's really important that the stories are generated from truth and you know, that people feel like they really, you know, and who came up with the story, you Listen, here's the deal. Meriwether is from Michigan, okay? And she always sort of, like, would drive through Nebraska and look at it and be like, that's the heartland of America. You know, like, these are farmers, you know, and she just romanticized the pants out of it. And then my husband Scott and I have genuinely, like, the real fantasy of light, which I think a lot of people do, which is like, I gotta get the hell out of dodge. You know what I mean?

You want to move to Nebraska?

We don't know. I mean, we want to move to a farm.

Okay, Yes, I want a horse farm.

See, everybody has.

I do want a horse.

A fantasy of, like, putting the horse.

I just want a horse farm. It could be outside la.

Yeah, exactly. But the idea of moving to somewhere where you could own a piece of dirt, where you're like, you don't have to, you know, sort of subscribe to the daily grind of what kind of technology is thrusted upon you, whether you like it or not. You know, it's like we're revving at such high rpm, such high stimulation at all times that I think people. The zeitgeist is that people want to move out, out, out into the. You know, into land where they can breathe and slow down.

Yeah. And I think it's actually crucial because, I mean, I don't know, this is taking it to a totally different place, but all the teenagers I know right now are having a really, really hard time, like, with depression. Like, all of them. Like, every teenager I know is struggling with depression. And I've been, like, even reading stuff about, like, suicide rates going up drastically and everything. And it all has so much to do with, you know, social media and, like, screen time. And not being liked. Yeah, not being liked and comparing yourself, but also not having personal, like, physical interactions with people, not knowing how to socialize, not leaving the house for long periods of time. And I do think that culturally we do need to all kind of pull back from that in a big way. And I don't know how for children who are coming up. I mean, children are coming up so different. I remember I was just texting, I don't know, yesterday or something, and somebody wrote like, lol. And it's so normal now. But I remember when LOL first started, and I was like. Like, that is so dumb. No one is ever gonna.

No one will ever, ever.

I was like, why would you write laugh out loud? You know what I mean? But now it's like, stupid me. As always.

Like, I'm always there and would you write back lol?

No. I still have never written it. Never once in my life.

Really? You're like, I will not.

No. If you look at my social numbers, you see that I have not really jumped on board. I'm like, I'm terrible. But it's also, like, it's not everyone's personality.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, it's like, a crucial thing for careers now. And so I'm, like, just ruining myself. But I can't. I mean, I have. I'm actually challenged in a very real way about small, concise communication. You know? Like, I used to really struggle with yearbook messages.

Okay.

Okay. And cards. Like, I'm really bad. So anytime you ever see me write, like, a tweet, which probably. I haven't written one in a year, but it takes me an hour. Like, literally, it takes me an hour. I don't even think in little small statements like that. When something happens in my life, I'm not like, let me tell all the strangers in the world. Like, it's just not me, you know? And it's just I've had so many meetings with my team about, like, what can you do to boost yourself? Yeah. Like, it's just gotta be. Become a part of. And, like, I don't think there's anything that I can do. I don't know.

I just. Just maybe find an awesome, like, young whippersnapper, like, super fan who could just be like, I got you.

Because I know. You know, I know. I understand all the marketing things, but it's just, like, it really isn't my personality.

I get it. Look, it's a huge invasion of privacy. And it's also.

It's also just like, I prefer to do things like if I'm in a moment. Like, I like to be in the moment. And also, like, if I'm doing something, I wanna talk to the people that I'm with.

Yeah.

Old school in that way. I don't know. It is old school. Talk to people. Yeah.

Like we're doing right now. Exactly. Cause we're on Talkhouse. I think we're, like, also close to the end, which is.

Okay. But let me ask you this. Before we end, how did you. I mean, what about all the funny stuff that you write? Like, did you, like. I mean, where does that come from?

The funnies.

Yeah.

Like, Child of Divorce.

Yeah.

So you have to have a sense of humor.

So you've just been. Have you always sort of dealt with everything from a comedic standpoint and, like.

Yeah, I mean, like, I. I was always really drawn to comedy and, you know, the likes of like Woody Allen, you know, when I was a kid, kind of just discovering movies that my parents had watched or whatever, like, oh, what's this? You know. And I mean, this sounds so like cliche, but I felt when my parents got divorced, I was immediately like, oh, here's a way to like disarm stuff, you know. And I, in my family, I was just funny. I was a funny kid. Yeah. And making my brother laugh or, you know, he made me laugh too. But I remember.

How old were you when they got divorced?

I was like two. But then the rough stuff, like, you know what I mean? All the kind of confusing stuff kind of happens after that.

Right. So you were young, you were like.

Yeah, I was super young. It's all I knew, you know what I'm saying? But I think it's like. And a lot of people have divorced parents or whatever, but I just feel like I remember it being really tumultuous and my brother and I were like, bff. And we made so much humor. That's awesome. And like songs and jokes and there was just like a huge bonding, creative relationship, you know. That's why I am glad that I have two kids so that they kind of like get through shit and have shared experience. But I feel like comedy really started really young, you know, just as a thing that I thought was more peripheral and kind of. I never thought career or anything. I knew I wanted to be an actor and that was very serious, you know, that felt like a serious thing. But then I'd have things like the late Lake show, which was like a procrastination tool for going to bed, where it was like, you know, my parents would be like, okay, Lake, it's time to go to bed. And I'd be like, but what about. And then I would like look around and search for something and be like this character, you know, and then it would just be like, I don't know, I gotta like vamp a bit, you know, just like make up stuff.

And they let you step and they just laughed at you.

Yeah, exactly. And then I was like, oh, this is good, you know. So, yeah, I guess to answer your question, it's just. It's therapy for me to make people laugh. And, you know, I never went down the path of like stand up comedy or anything like that. And I don't have it in my. I have no scary. You know what I mean? And I have friends who are masters and mistresses of it, and I hold them on a very high pedestal. Because I just, I don't do that. But in terms of writing, I feel like I have the safety of kind of hashing things out and playing out the musicality in my head and improvising with myself in my head, in my process. That's kind of how I get things down.

Well, it's really fun. And I think that the big thing though is that what we were talking about as far as being a parent and then being a creative is that thank God for these little creative havens, you know, Because I feel like a lot of parents and I know a lot of moms who sort of lose themselves in the parenting. And I'm not interested in that at all.

I'm not. But I don't think it's in our personality to do that, you know, and then some people.

But then, you know, a lot of moms struggle with depression because they, like, can't. You can't figure it out.

Here's one thing that I have really felt over the years of like, meeting friends who, because I have a couple of friends who were creatives and they got pregnant and then found momming and were like, oh, this is my thing.

Now, like Patti Smith.

Well, you know, I mean, people, people do it. And now that you know what momming is, isn't there also, I mean, for me, there's a part of me that like kind of goes, well, shit, that's kind of. That's just as honorable of a job. If that's what you find in your heart that satiates you more. I used to, I think, be kind of like, even though I have friends who are really talented, and I'm like, you let go of something amazing. Are you sure you don't want to try to do that? And also mom. And they're like, nah, I got it. I love momming. Maybe I'll get there one day. But I'm not ready. And I'm like, look, nurturing the next generation of humans seems like an honorable job. So if that's the thing that you want to do, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. I think everybody should do what they feel is true to themselves.

But you're right.

For me, I would go crazy.

Correct. And so would I. And I'm very truthful with myself on that. But I try really hard to be like, if you want to be a stay at home, I try hard. Because at first I was really. I think I found myself being judgmental. I did, because I was like, like, I'm working hard, you know, and I'm doing Both of the. You know. But I realized, for me, yeah.

So.

Like, why aren't you. And then I realized, oh, okay, so it's not for everyone. Because, like, we started this conversation. It's a goddamn hustle. And it.

No, it's psycho. And it's a speed that's un. People can't keep the speed. Like, a lot of people cannot keep that speed. And I find. And I'm in awe of a lot of my friends, you know, who are doing like you guys are. I'm left in the dust because I just. I don't even see how a lot of things are even physically possible that a lot of people that I know do. But I know that that's not a normal amount of energy that people have.

I think you're right there with us. And I mean, like, I feel like I look at you and I'm like, holy shit, the twin thing is coming. The twin thing is really a whammy. So, look, let's just pat ourselves on the back and give ourselves credit. Because I think that's also important, too. We're doing the best we can.

That's what I think is the most important. It's that we're doing the best we can. It's really hard. Cause I think I'm a little bit competitive, but not in, like, the bad way, but.

Because so am I. I mean, you.

Have to have a little bit. And I see, like. So when I'm like, you know, making new life, and I'm watching, like, these guys who are, like, doing, like, you know, this and that and this and that, while I'm, like, babying. I'm like, fuck.

I know. I know. You're totally, like, breastfeeding. And you're like, damn it, I gotta get back out there.

Yeah, but on the one hand, you're like, this is so special and so amazing. And then you just look over there and you're like, I'm so behind. Do you know what I mean? And so it's this concept. But I think that's okay. Like, if you can be okay with those two things happening at the same time, then you're good. You know? It's like, you can't. I'm so grateful. I can't believe I had twins. That's like, my dream back in the day. I was like, man, it's so unfair, all these people just having a boy and a girl twin. Cause they just plan it. I was like, I should just do that.

Then I knew that you had had these little, like, be careful what you.

Wish for, but I know.

Yeah, I know.

But I didn't even. It wasn't even in the front of my head. It was just something that I had, like, meant and said.

It wasn't in the front of your head, but it was in the front of your uterus.

It was. It was. So then I came out here and we were so busy and it was like moving and it was a disaster. And I was like, late with my period and I was just like, not even thinking about it. I'm like, I moved. Of course I'm late.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then I was unpacking and I happened to find, like, a test.

That's exactly how I felt about Ozzy.

Go ahead.

So I took the test and it said positive. And my nephew was sitting in the room and I just came out and I just sat there and he was just like, what's wrong? I was like, nothing. You know what I mean? It was literally, like, surrounded. Like, I had just a week. I had been in LA for a week. And then I went to the doctor and she was like, there's two of them. And I was like, what? Yeah, it was crazy.

No, that's. Yeah. I had a similar thing with Ozzy where it was like we weren't planning it. And then all of a sudden there was like a rogue, you know, pregnancy.

But it's amazing. And it's just like, it was kind of like exactly what you wanted. You know what I mean?

But it's like. So look, congratulations on your 100 children that you have.

Thank you.

And all of our creative children that we are currently making in our work.

I know. And we love you.

I love you so much.

We gotta do something. We gotta do something.

I know.

We gotta do something. We're gonna do something. Aside from birthday parties, dates and scary Halloween.

Okay, we will. But for right now, should we just. Should we end this episode?

Yes.

Okay. Good night.

Bye.

Lake Bell Santigold. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Talkhouse podcast.

And I gotta say a big thank you also to both of their teams. It was a long slog to get that episode done and everybody was super patient and awesome and great. Thank you.

Well worth it. Well worth it. Nick. We have some great behind the scenes photos from this conversation. Listeners can find those on our socials. Talkhouse.

Yeah. On Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, Bebo, MySpace. On most of those. We're on most of those. And of course, if you enjoyed today's witchcraft, clearly you need your head seen too. If you didn't Go back, check out Lake Bell versus Rob Cordry, a comic battle of two lovely people. It's a classic.

And make sure to take a moment to subscribe to the Talkhouse podcast on Stitcher, itunes, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Because we have some very dope episodes coming down the pipeline. Nick, Mark, the producer, and I slept in a tent in the middle of the Arizona desert at the beautiful formfest in Arcosanti, and we came away with some shows you are not gonna wanna miss. You ready for this?

I'm ready.

I'm ready.

But are you ready, though?

Let me just get a pen.

Robert Glasper with Vieux Farcauture.

Nice.

Fred Armisen with Mary Lynn Rice cup and Snail Mail. Juliana Barwick with Mary Lattimore. Kelsey Liu and Yirsa Daley. Ward Pelican and American Football and Lorraine with Melanie Fay.

Whoa.

You kind of spent very much time in that tent because he must have been recording the whole time.

We got some great episodes. There's going to be some videos as well. We're going to be starting to drop those very soon.

Amazing.

Subscribe. Today's episode is recorded in Los Angeles by Gideon Brower. Our co producer is Mark Yoshizumi.

Our theme song was composed and performed.

By the range Shouts Trouble. Nick, thank you again for joining us here on the show.

Thank you. Well behaved, Elia. I greatly appreciate it. Look forward to hanging out with you very, very soon.

Hey there. I'm Lake Bell and this is Santi Gold and this is Talk House.

Yes.