Santigold sings Spirituals

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Welcome to Switched On Pop. I'm musicologist Nate Sloan.

And I'm songwriter Charlie Harding.

After a four year hiatus, the musical polymath Santigold has released new music, an album called Spirituals. This is a very exciting moment, Charlie, and perhaps an opportunity for us to right an overdue wrong because we have not covered Santi Gold on the show before.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think she's one of the most important, influential artists of our era and we've been neglectful.

Right. When Beyonce is giving you shout outs on the Queen's remix of Break My Soul, that's usually a sign that this is an artist worth paying attention to.

Dang, those are some heavyweights to be named in between.

I know it's August's company, right? From Rosetta Tharpe to Bessie Smith. So what makes Santigold such a unique artist? I mean, excitingly, you got the chance to go deep with Santigold in a conversation we'll get to later in this episode, but it's really fun right now. Charlie. I want to take a chance to just dive into a single track that for me embodies so many of the aspects of what makes this, this Philly hailing artist who burst onto the scene in 2008 and has been releasing genre defying music ever since, so special.

Oh, this is fun for me because, you know, I'm a late bloomer to pop music. It really wasn't until 2008, my late college years, that I was starting to fall in love with pop. And Santi Gold was one of those artists that helped awaken my ear to the varieties of sounds that exist within pop music. And she's been releasing excellent material ever since.

And it's not necessarily an easy task to pick one song from this discography. I mean, there are some fascinating tracks, starting with one of the songs that put her on the map, L E S artistes from her self titled debut album.

I can say I hope it will be worth what I give up. I Can stand on me.

You might also be tempted to pick a song like disparate youth from 2012.

I love it. Ugh. The percussive energy. It's so good.

Perhaps you're inclined more towards a recent release like the dancehall inspired Run the Road.

Now. Run Now, Run Now.

You listen to those tracks back to back, Charlie, and you hear such a wide gamut of influence, from indie rock to drum and bass to Caribbean dancehall. Yeah, you know, I dropped the adjective genre defying earlier and I feel like that's often a pretty empty phrase. But with Santigold, it really rings true.

Yeah, you've got punk roots. You pointed out dance halls in there. There is electronica. I even hear a hint of like ABBA influence. There's a lot happening here. Definitely a pan genre out of all her catalog though.

The song I want to talk about, one that I have very personal connection to because it's one that my partner Whitney introduced me to. It's one that we would play on repeat during road trips. And then before you know it, you listen to the same song like 20 times in a row. And that song is Can't Get Enough of Myself off Santa Gold's 2016 album $0.99 Now. I don't just want to talk about Can't Get Enough of Myself because I have this personal connection to it. I also love this song because I think it captures what makes Santa Gold such a successful and provocative artist. I'd argue there's actually two ways to listen to this song. The first is hearing this message Can't Get Enough of Myself as an anthem of empowerment and self love. Like, check out the start of the song's first verse.

If I wasn't me I can be sure I wanna be I'm pretty major.

And I'll say it out loud.

If I wasn't me I can be sure I'd wanna be I'm pretty major and I'll say it out loud.

That's a fun little self boast.

The buoyant 128 groove of the music seems to be supporting this message of celebratory self love.

Yeah, it's got a little saunter to it.

Yeah, the 128 groove, Charlie. I knew you would catch that.

You gotta move your shoulders to it. You're moving, you're grooving, you're strutting. You gotta strut to that rhythm.

And people seem to respond to it. I mean, when you watch the music video for the song, the top YouTube comment that comes up, this is what it says. My Favorite part of this song is how much I reflect on how much I love being me and letting my own energy attract those who want to be around me.

I love that.

So halfway through the first verse, you're like, oh, wow, what a great. This song has such a great message. You know, people are responding to it in such a positive way. But then the very next line gives a vastly different perspective on self love.

It's all an illusion, it's all a fantasy and she's singing it in a totally different tone of voice. There's two characters going on here.

Yes. Living a fantasy Living in my vanity it's like, wait, wait, no, no, no. I thought this was a self love celebratory anthem and now you're telling me I'm living in a vain fantasy. Like, oh wait, there's another meaning to this song.

Yeah. Her album $0.99 was all a commentary on having to sell one's identity as a commodity when you're a pop star. I love that she's playing with this.

The chorus of the song kind of walks a tightrope between these two contrasting interpretations.

All I wanna do is wanna do well in a gambler I wanna Honey I put money on myself All I wanna do.

Nate. I feel like I got pulled into the strut of this song and wasn't paying attention to what's really going on. I'm hearing it entirely new way.

All I want to do is bottle it to sell Cuz my brand of vainglory is much better for your health. So this song came out in 2016, and by this point, social media platforms like Instagram were a thing. They were blurring the lines between self expression and branding. But I still think this song is kind of eerily prophetic. This idea of selling yourself, that you are the commodity, and that's something that especially musicians now are really grappling with. Right. Where is the line between selling my music and selling my personality, my soul? To a degree, this song presages a lot of these conversations that we're having right now.

Right? Because if Instagram made influencers a career path, TikTok turned musicians into influencers.

The COVID of this album, $0.99 that you were talking about actually features Sontigold wrapped in cellophane as though she's an action figure, you know, waiting to be sold at a department store. And it's kind of marked down too, you know, 99 cents. It's like, how much do we really value musicians? Seems to be a question she's asking.

Right?

But all of this social critique that we're talking about. It seems to get erased as soon as the post chorus drops.

I can't get enough Mama said it's true I can't get enough of myself oh, I can't get enough of myself.

She comes back to the self obsession.

We get these wordless vocals. O. It's like very sing along, very triumphant. Once again, I think you're listening to this and you're like, okay, no, no, this isn't about narcissism. This is just about feeling good. I can sing along. It's all good. It's almost like a Santigold song is a choose your own adventure in terms of you as a listener. Oh.

It definitely, at the very least, marries cutting commentary with extremely fun music. And you can get lost in the in between. And I think certainly choose anywhere on the spectrum from pure celebratory raucousness to capitalist critique.

Right.

You definitely get to choose which path you want to go down in this song.

Right. You can have one ear tuned into the catchy melodies, full of rhythmic propulsion and lyrical invention that makes you want to dance. And then from your other ear you can think, huh. There's a lot of critique going on here. And sometimes it's very incisive and very cutting and very self aware. There's a lot going on under the ebullient surface of this track. So to me, a song like Can't Get Enough of Yourself Myself embodies what's so exciting about Santigold as a musician, as a songwriter. She gives us that celebratory upbeat feeling and sneaks in these lacerating lyrical insights. Yeah, there's not a lot of artists over the years who have been able to straddle that line. David Bowie comes to mind as one of them. Prince, I think, is another Madonna who.

Gets shouted out by Beyonce, does certainly open her career with Material Girl. That is somewhere in that in between.

Santigold might be one of the artists that comes closest to representing that for the 21st century. And by that I mean an artist who's able to both create this catchy pop music that also sublimates a pretty heavy message at the same time that you can kind of choose to tap into as much as you'd like to. That's a fine line to walk. And so, Charlie, I'm pretty interested to hear in your conversation with Santagold, how she's incorporating into her newest record, this combination of music that makes you feel good and happy. And I also imagine she's also trying to comment on what's happening in the world, and there's a lot happening. So I feel like this release might represent maybe one of her most challenging artistic projects yet.

Yeah, she's got this new album out called Spirituals that evokes black spirituals that have been used throughout history as acts of musical transcendence, especially as an escape from the forces of slavery, sharecropping, Jim Crow, and all the institutions of racism. And for Santi Gold, making music in this moment is connected to these spirituals because she's looking for relief in hard times with music that's gonna get you moving. So after the break, we're going to hear directly from Santi Gold about how she made the song My Horror, a song that helped her transcend one of the most difficult periods of her life.

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Hi, I'm Santi Gold.

Back in 2018, Santigold was settling in with two new kids who had pulled her away from making music for a bit.

I was in la. I had just had twins. When you have a baby, and twins in particular, like, you're not going anywhere.

Childcare routines really get in the way of day long songwriting sessions. But Santigold wanted to get back to writing music. And so she reached out to her longtime writing partner, Doc McKinney.

I never got out of the house and I was like breastfeeding and like, I was like, doc, I can come write with you, but we have like four hours each day, you know, for.

A couple days to Santa Gold and Doc get into the studio just for fun, and they start jamming on this idea.

It was just a little simple drum beat that was just a loop and the guitars. The melody almost comes out exactly as you hear it later. To be able to go and make music four months after having twins and just be free in my element, it was unbelievable. And so it built out this sonic landscape that was there. And then I put it away for a couple years. I never listened to it. I never thought about it.

Making a new record in this time of life happens in fits and starts for Santi Gold. But some of those early motherhood jam sessions, she knows she's got something there.

When I first started going back to try to write, it was like the end of 2019, and I was like, hey, maybe I'll start to put a record together.

So she grabs that sketch that she did with Doc and tries to get back into the song, but it's been so long that she's got the curse of writer's block.

There was no words coming at that time. It was just like, you know, I just sat down and started writing. But I expect sometimes, even though it's ridiculous and it never happens, but I'm like, words should come immediately, and the whole concept should just come immediately. As soon as I decide that I'm gonna write a record, I should know what it's about. And I've been in the game long enough that I know that that's not really how it goes until it goes like that, you know?

But she's also been in the game long enough to know that a great way to break through those blocks is to keep bringing in collaborators who can give a fresh perspective.

One of them was my friend Naim, who's spank rock. And I was like, naim, come over and help me write. And then I was like, what am I saying when I'm like Maha in.

My whore just a day in my heart.

You know? And he's like, it sounds like horror. And I was like, it does. And at this particular time, it wasn't time yet to write the record, you know, it was maybe time for me to start thinking about the record and pulling things together. But it wasn't time for the lyrics because the world hadn't turned upside down and was only a little couple steps away, and this record wanted to be made. Then cut to lockdown with the pandemic and the climate crisis. There was wildfires burning in California at the time. There was all the brutality that we were seeing and the protests and the riots and my children, you know, locked in the house with. I had at the time just turned two year old, twins and a six year old. And so it was cooking, cleaning, changing diapers. I mean just non stop 24 hours in the next 24 hours, in the next 24 hours with no help. I love being a mother, but I also, in order to be a good mother, need to be able to step away and be an artist as well. Because I am an artist and I need to have that autonomy. Even if I could sneak out for like three hours, it was my way to escape. It was my way to go inward and upward and create some beauty and light for me to grasp onto and move towards. And my horror seemed perfect.

Heel, heel Think I got a hole in my head I think I'm messing.

So I already had. Hey you. I think I got a hole in my head. I think all the numbness finally sank in. It's making my head decay. So that was already the lyrics. So my horror seemed perfectly fitting. But I also really liked playing with how I said it. And it sounded so happy and like me and my heart, right? A day in my heart, you know, it's like happy, upbeat. And I always think it's really fun to do that when you have these really like melodies that feel so light and uplifting and even frilly almost. And then you have these like dark lyrics. I love doing that because it really speaks to reality because nobody feels all one way.

Heel, heel Think I got a hole.

In my head There was guitars and there was my vocal melodies, but it didn't have any body. Like it didn't have any low end or anything like that. And I specifically reached out to Boys Noise because I was wanting some really heavy and grounding sub sounds. And I wanted to really contrast that with all the lightness and the melody that was going on. It's really rude in something concrete, you know, and give it body. So I kind of wanted some drums that, you know, gave you real, some real 808 feeling. But then he put all these like click, click, click, click, click, click. You know, all this stuff that you're like, what is that? I don't know what it is. I don't know how to place it. And it gives it this rhythm that is unexpected and also unnamable. But it just, it creates this atmosphere of otherworldliness in a way. I love it when you can't name exactly what's going on or what it is or place it into a context because it allows it to exist more for exactly what it is, which is just sound.

The song starts as just a fun little jam, and then Santi Gold adds a concept, then a lyric. Now body, but it's missing some contrasting element, so she shares it with her producer friend Rostam.

Rostam had done this sort of interesting early, like, raw, stripped down reggae thing, and I was like, rostam, this is really interesting. We should take this whole track and do a different song on it. But then later I was like, actually, I love that for the bridge, what you did. I loved that nice little reggae skank, because it is like you cross into another dimension. I was talking about what it felt like to be stuck in this role that was too small to fit my entire being. Felt like I was just stuck in this mundane cycle where I just did the same thing over and over, and there was no time to think and no time to exist and to be my full self. But also it was talking about the world when we're all numbed out and disconnected, mostly for survival reasons, and feeling hopeless and so we disconnect. It's about what it's like to live in a world of sleepwalkers or the Walking Dead or a world where everybody is just numb. And so that's what my Haro is about. I posted some images on my Instagram, which I never do, but I'm trying, and I posted some pictures and I said, mom life. And it was like a series of these photos that I took as part of the campaign that. That kind of talk about what it was like being a mother during. During these years and during these times and exactly in the song. And it has me by the pool holding a drink in my hand on fire while the kids are in the pool. And somebody who I imagine was very young and didn't have kids was like, seems like you don't like being a mother very much, you know? And I'm like, of course I love being a mother. My kids are the best thing ever. But sometimes it's really great to say things the harshest way because it's a release. It gives you an opportunity to exist as a full human being and explore the full spectrum of your emotions and experiences and not try to be something that you're not, which is like, all good or all bad or all happy or all sad. They always exist at the same time. And I love it when you can actually bring them all into a song at the same time.

Did it provide you release to put it out into the world?

Yeah, I felt really proud to put this out I felt, I felt really proud that I, through the roughest, some of the roughest times of my life, made a record. The fact that when shit gets really rough that I can create and make something of value. Not just a value for me, but a value for other people. That's, to me, the point of being an artist. And so I really felt proud that it worked out. To have created beauty during that time is really a special accomplishment for me.

Switched On Pop is produced by Rihanna Cruz, Engineered by Brandon McFarlane, edited by Jolie Myers, Community management by Abby Barr Illustrations by Ira Scotlieb Our executive producers are Hanna Rosen and Nishat Kurwa. We're a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture.

You can find more episodes of Switched On Pop anywhere you get podcasts. We're talking Spotify, we're talking the Apple Podcast app, and we're talking our website, www.switchedonpop.com.

And come back next Tuesday because I have an episode I am really excited about that I've been working on for months. It's a piece with the lead singer of Sylvan Esso, Amelia Meath, where she and I talk with her favorite musicians about what does it really mean to release a record? What does it really feel like? We've got Jeff Tweedy, Muna, Maggie Rogers, Bartis Strange. It's a really spectacular conversation. I hope you'll come back on Tuesday and check it out. And until then, thanks for listening.

Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea when you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf Iced Tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced Tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a Pure Leaf.

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