Mediator Scott Levin and divorce coach Laura Brunstrom explain how power dynamics shape divorce outcomes. They advocate for mediation over litigation, recommending clients assemble a team of coach, mediator, attorney, and financial expert to ask informed questions and stay in control. Brunstrom introduces the "whole-body decision," integrating heart, mind, and gut to avoid regret.
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Hi everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper. How are you? And I'm here with Laura Brunstrom. How are you, Laura?
I am amazing.
Good. Well, Laura, why don't you introduce yourself? Uh, I'm a family law attorney that helps people through mediation. Uh, Laura is a, is a life and divorce coach. I'll do it for her for a second. Um, she has a fantastic practice and has helped a lot of, a lot of people that I've worked with simultaneously work with her to kind of keep things even-keeled and making intelligent, informed decisions with this while recognizing the heart, but using the brain. And she can help you in so many ways. But Laura, so sorry. Why don't you continue from there? I just wanted to kind of get that out.
It's all good. I'm— what I call what you're referring to is a whole-body decision. You know, your heart, your mind, your gut. Like trust all of it. And when you're making a decision with just one of those 3 things in mind, you're probably gonna regret your decision. So making whole body decisions is something that I work a lot with people on. Um, and, and I know you see that the results of that and you, you help people pace through your process while also recognizing how important that is. I reached out to you on our topic today because it keeps coming up. And I think it's predominant in every divorce. It's predominant in every relationship, really, which is a power dynamic and who holds the power in what situations. And one thing that I'm noticing is I have a couple of clients who are he always wins, she always wins, and sometimes getting around that mindset of Why do you think that person's always winning? You know, I have a client right now whose husband bought a boat during the divorce and has the new girlfriend, and they're out on the boat, and she's like, he always gets what he wants. And I'm like, what do you want? What do you want to be doing? And she's like, I hate boats. I'm like, so why do you care if they have a boat? So getting through— for on my end, working with people who think the other person's always winning, and the reality is, is you do have control of how you respond to things. So if you feel like somebody else is always winning, what, what buttons do you need to push? Where do you need to apply yourself to not feel that way? And when you have that mindset of somebody else is always winning, they're coming into you. Probably feeling like the other person has an upper hand.
Especially if the other person is the one that says, hey, why don't we try mediation? And here's a mediator that I want you to— that we should speak with. Or here's 2 mediators. You choose. Let's talk to them. And then you choose. Like, what am I being set up here for? That is a common mindset that I hear during my consultations, which are free when both people have to appear at the consultation to have one with me. Virtually or in San Diego. But I can sense that that's there oftentimes, and I think it's important to get it out. Like, you have to get the concerns out. And the way that you address those, like that power imbalance, like he's always, or she's always, you know, managed this, and I feel like, you know, totally disadvantaged, and I feel like I'm being set up for something, or, you know, Just all those feelings, the way that you can counter those in reality and actually protect yourself, like, from an intelligence standpoint is to form the right team. So mediation is almost always the right vehicle, but that doesn't mean that you can't have Laura as your coach and you can't have a consulting attorney or a consulting financial expert that's also coaching you to give you advice on what would be reasonable, what would be good for you, what would be a bad outcome. But using the mediation process to negotiate an expedited settlement that saves a lot of time, money, and stress. So you form a team, you get answers, you make informed— you understand the issues, you ask all your questions, and then you're able to make informed proposals and empowered proposals and counterproposals during your mediations, because know what's what. And that's how you— the best way, I think, traditionally, to overcome, um, that like kind of power imbalance or the fear of it.
I love— what I love about what you just said is that you're really empowering yourself through building a team. So if you— none of us can do everything, right? Like, we can— none of us can do everything we want to do. So when people go through a divorce, you can have somebody like me who who's— you're bouncing ideas off of. You're panicking around. You're realizing that you need to see a new normal, because a lot of people function through this process where it's like, well, this is what my life used to be. Like, that's great. It's no longer that. And here's what we're going to do is we're going to look forward. And then when you say make informed decisions, you need to have that perspective coming into mediation. And that will leave some success. So if you are stuck in the past where this is what my life used to look like, and, and he or she always wins, or she's such a bully, or he has controlled everything— that was then. And you teaming up with a coach, choosing a mediator together that has a good vibe that you like, that you respect, that you like their process, which of course is you Aha. That's inching towards balancing the power. Because if you have somebody you can rely on, and you have a mediator you trust, and you have a lawyer who's advising you, or however you're choosing to do the process, then you lean on that person. And you lean into it knowing that if you don't get stuck back with, well, she's always this, or he's always that, or in the past, this has always happened, Those days are done. It's very rearview mirror.
It's changed. Otherwise, you can always just litigate it and hand over things to 2 lawyers, right? I mean, that's always there for you. But the days of— you have to be in control. You have to take ownership of this process. Otherwise, when you hand it over to somebody and say, you deal with it, which is like what the Litigation 101 really is, you're totally losing control and the power. You're not going to feel more empowered. You're going to feel less empowered because what you're going to hear about in court is, you know, Code Section 4419 and, you know, Smith versus Lewinsky in, you know, 1948, you know, cases like you, you're going to feel you're going to— they're going to be speaking a different language and you won't understand at all what's happening and you won't know the impact of it until you've won or lost. But really, you've both lost because you're You're now in a, in a, in a divorce process where you don't— you're not making informed decisions. You're not empowered. You're not in control. And the court process has taken over. And so that imbalance, whether it was there or not, is really the last of your concerns because you've already lost when you're down that road, in my opinion.
Yes. And I When you were talking, I was thinking about a couple of cases that I have in your neighborhood that are— they're just stuck there. It's going to take them a year and a half to get through this process because they're going lawyer on lawyer. And there's so many times that I think, gosh, I really, I really wish we could get them into a neutral space and have a conversation where it's not Arguing over every little tiny thing. It's let's get like a broad scope view of it. And, and I think I just don't see a scenario where that's not empowering. Taking control of the next 2 years of your life, day by day, working in a system that is in a neutral mediator's position. And then I think my— the theme I keep coming up with in my head as we're talking is stretch into the new you. Like, really reach for who you are going to be and empower yourself in that way. Because getting stuck in that rearview mirror isn't— it's— you're gonna have to drive really slow because you can't— you're not looking forward. And if you're projecting into the new you, looking backwards, then they show up for mediation to you, Scott, being ready. And amicable.
It's, it's crazy when I see the switch a lot of times during mediation. Meeting 1, meeting 2, meeting 3, you know, like it might be a lot of like, you know, hurt or I mean that sometimes it's me, it's all the meetings are those feelings. But all of a sudden I'll see a switch where someone comes in, they have ideas, proposals, they're realistic, they're ready to move. And I'm like, hmm, like this is a total mindset switch and you don't know what trans— you know what. What triggered that? Is it a new relationship? Is it a great new workout? Is it just a feeling of working with someone like Laura where they're focused on the future and they see their next steps and they want to get there? Whatever it is, though, you can tell when it happens. And those people are better off getting to that switch as soon as possible.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's all me.
Well, thank you so much for being— taking a few minutes with us today, Laura. And I'll see you soon.
