Carly Israel, a co-parenting coach, describes her North Star Divorce methodology, which keeps children at the center of every decision. Her core rules: never criticize the other parent in front of kids, and sit together at public events. She uses a two-letter exercise where parents write from their child's future perspective, one about the damage of current behavior and one imagining a better path.
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Hey everyone, Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper. How you doing? And I am here today with my good friend Carly Israel. How are you, Carly?
I could not complain. I'm very good.
Good. Carly is a co-parenting coach, the, uh, a podcaster extraordinaire. Her podcast is called In Your Corner, and an author Of Second and Inches. How are you?
Yeah, that's okay. I am In Your Corner Divorce if you want to find it on everything. And all we do is we focus on how we get to make these impactful decisions about how to not mess up our kids.
I love that. So Carly, how did you get into the, the world of divorce?
Right, like, who wants to be— yeah, how did you get into this world? So I'll tell you how I got into this world. I Went through my own divorce. I've been through a lot of things in my life, and going through the divorce, through the decision to make the divorce, was the most painful thing I've ever done because my biggest fear was I'm gonna mess up my kids. And who wants to mess up their kids, right? And everyone says you're gonna mess up your kids if you do this, and you should stay for— and I Googled, should I stay for the kids? And Google did not tell me. But the mirror told me, and my soul told me, and I knew. And so when I went through it, I said to myself, I don't want to mess up my kids. And there was a guy that— his name is also Scott, so apparently Scotts are awesome. And he was successfully divorced, 9 years. And I said to him, please tell me what to do. And he said, do you know what the North Star is? And I said, no, I've heard of it, but I don't really know about it. He said, when sailors are lost in the dark and they cannot find their way home, they look to the North Star to guide them. And your children are going to be your North Star. And whenever you don't know what to do on this scary, you know, trip of divorce for the rest of your life, you're going to look to what's best for them. And that's how you're going to move forward. And that is what I do. So I created a program, a coaching program about North Star Divorce. And I only work with clients who do not want to mess up their kids, which has some work with it, right? We were talking about that before. There's some work that needs to be done.
Absolutely. You were actually— you actually gave, when we were talking before, you gave a really good example about, you know, a T-ball game. Can you talk a little bit about that?
So I have 2 rules. The first one is super obvious. Everyone talks about it. You are not allowed to say anything negative about your parent, your children's parents in front of them, including if someone else is in the room and your children are in earshot, even if they're on digital, you shut that down. And the other thing is they have to sit in the same section, row, seating area. as the other parent at all public events. So concerts, baseball, soccer, graduation. And the reason is— and by the way, when I tell my clients this, it's like I'm asking them to give up carbs. And I'm like, look, okay, no one's gonna harm anybody. You're in a physical safe place, right? No one's gonna do anything. This is not about you and what you want. This is about your children. And if your kid is lucky enough to hit a ball, which is very hard to do, Right, and they can make it to first base and they look up for one second to find their parents to get that attaboy or attagirl. You better be in the same space so they don't have to look in one area and then another area because you're so selfish you can't sit near each other.
That's so cool. I love that. And Carly has— I work with Carly in my practice, so she helps my clients form parenting plans so that when they come into mediation I am— I've read a lot about parenting, but I am not an expert. I'm more someone that, like, you know, can give a little advice, but, you know, depending on the kids' ages, how many, where you live, how far apart, you know, it's not always black and white. So I like to send people out to parenting coaches and experts that can give solid advice. And one of the things— tell us, so you have the, the 5-session plan, but in that 5 sessions You do the 2 letters written from the kids. Can you talk about those? Yeah, that's so awesome.
Yeah, I love it too. So I'm all about get rid of your garbage that's blocking you, because what everyone wants to do— and I'm sure you hear this all the time in mediation— they want to tell you the story of what happened and why the other person is wrong. And here's the truth: we don't care about your story. Like, your story doesn't matter anymore. It's over. Like, let's deal with the story and get through it, because it's about your kids. Right? It's about how we— and about you growing and becoming and having a renaissance and meeting new people and all that jazz. But after we get through the junk hallway, I make them write 2 different letters. They don't know they have to write 2. They think it's just one at first. It's kind of like— and this is 2 Jews talking, but it's kind of like the Ghost of Christmas Past. So like, remember that movie a long time ago when they did that, you know?
Bill Murray. Yeah.
Yes, Bill Murray. Thank you. Thank you. And so I say, you need to write a letter from your children as if they're in their 30s. And you have to write as many letters as you have children. And each letter has to come from your children saying to you how you messed up their life, how you never were able to show up, how you always put them in the middle, how you always said negative things even though you didn't think you were, how you blamed the other parent and what that did to them in their current adult life. And then they have to read it to me, and it is brutal.
Mm-hmm.
Then I say, now you have to write another letter, same deal, but as if you made the decision right now To take the high road, to suck it up and smile, to be a Grammy Award-winning actor and show up. I had to do that for 2 years before I believed it. And to just be a good human and get over yourself so your kids get to have Halloween together and you don't have to miss trick-or-treating, and they get to go to fireworks together and their birthday dinners. And it's about 2 of you who at one time wanted to be together forever. For whatever reason, didn't work out. Now your job for the rest of your life, not just till they're 18, is to parent and raise them. And so I say to them, which letter do you want to receive in 20 years? It's totally on you. And then they get to go forward with whatever that is. I can only help them get to one of them. Everybody else can get to the other one.
And when, when people, um, what are some of the reasons that people choose the bad, you know, the negative path when you present that to them?
They're selfish. That's it. I know it sounds so simple, but they want to stay stuck in that story because that story is serving them in some gross way. They're talking about the infidelity or if you knew what would happen. So guess what? You're not together anymore. It's going to suck for a couple of years while you guys both figure out how to do this new world and co-parent and back and forth and all that. But guess who's going to suck more? Guess who's going to feel that pain more? Because when you're doing the miserable legal stuff and not using mediation, which I think is so much better, one of you is with your kids while you're getting a bad email, bad call, bad text. And guess who's going to feel that pain? You don't think that they're going to feel it because you think you're being quiet, but they hear everything and it's painful for them.
I couldn't agree more. And, you know, it only gets more complicated, as you know, from personal experience and just in the business of divorce, is that, you know, Right now it's just between the core family unit, us and the kids. But what happens when you bring in stepmom, stepdad? I mean, it can't be any easier, right?
I have experience galore with that. So I am remarried and my current husband has an ex. And I— my was-been is what I call my ex because he was my husband. He is in a new relationship. Not new. He's in a relationship, lifetime partner. They're probably gonna get married. They're together all the time. And that relationship has been the only part of our North Star divorce that's been not fun.
Mm-hmm.
And that is because the woman he's with is threatened by our co-parenting situation and feels left out and blah, blah, blah, and does not want him to show up how we said we were going to. So one of the things I do with my clients is called and bolts. And we go over things to bring to you to say, look, Scott, we already figured this out. You don't have to even talk about it. Just let's agree upon this and write it in. For example, we told our 3 boys, we're gonna have dinner with you on your birthdays once a year, just the 5, or the OG family. And they were like, sweet, we love that. But we didn't put it in our plan.
Hmm.
And then when a new person came in and they didn't like that, because it wasn't in our plan, It be— it's become an issue, and my youngest son is really unhappy about it and brings it up all the time. And there's nothing I can do other than to keep trying to work with my co-parent. But for, for whatever reason, it feels easier to follow that when it's already written. Then you can blame it on your divorce. You'd be like, look, it's in our divorce. What do you want me to do? Right?
Yeah, but the other thing I would say—
Yeah, this isn't about you, right? And so The other thing I would say to people is if you're with someone that is not okay with that, say goodbye. Because why on earth would you want to invite somebody into your family, in your children's life, who isn't okay with your kids getting to spend time with both of their favorite humans? Right?
Oh yeah, no, totally.
That's like a red flag.
And the fact that you have that personal experience and you can help people beyond just coaching and then learning through coaching. I think makes you a thought leader. It was one of the reasons you're a thought leader in this industry. And we've connected. I'm in San Diego, you're in Cleveland. It's just incredible how the peacekeepers of the world unite.
