Embracing Conscious Uncoupling in Divorce: Conscious Uncoupling Coach Dympna McAloon & Scott Levin

Hi everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper, and I'm here today with Dipna MacLennan. Hi Dipna.

Hi Scott, thanks for taking this time to speak to me.

Am I— do I— I know we, when we talk, I don't ever say your name. Am I saying it okay?

It's perfect, that's perfect.

I don't want to be offensive. Um, So, uh, Dipna and I know each other from the— I'm, I'm a divorce lawyer and mediator. Uh, Dipna is a coach that works with people, uh, through conscious uncoupling. Um, and it's actually a formal process, conscious uncoupling. Um, obviously, uh, it was made— I don't know if it was made famous. Tell— when did you become— when did you start working as a conscious uncoupling coach?

Okay, well, I came across this as Katherine Woodward Thomas. That is a New York Times bestseller and family therapist and psychotherapist that created this process. And it became, um, well known by Gwyneth Paltrow and Steve Martin, in fact, that she coached through their divorce.

And so she did. I mean, that's when I, I think most people came, became familiar with it. And I think that some people think she like coined the phrase, but obviously she was taking those coaching courses.

Yes, yes, absolutely. But that's the beauty of, of Gwyneth Paltrow. She can bring it out into, into the world for everybody.

Yeah. And so is it—

is—

were you involved in the, in the, in, in that, um, in that practice before that happened or after? Or tell us how you Tell us about it.

Well, yeah, I came across this, um, actually during the pandemic, and, um, I did it, the course myself on Mindvalley. And then when I did it, I just find it such a personal experience, such that it brought me so much peace and calmness and liberty. And at the end of it that I thought, well, this is such a powerful piece of work. I really want to become a coach in this and bring it to other people, be able to help people find their way through this, what can be an extremely difficult emotional time. So that's my story with it.

And I know, um, when we've spoken in the past, one of the things I, I really— not enjoyed, I guess, but I, I like remember from our conversations is that You know, um, you've mentioned to me that like part of this is to come to the reckoning or realization that, you know, playing the blame game isn't, isn't necessarily a productive path. And it's oftentimes something I hear. It's her fault. It's his fault. It's their fault. Whatever you're calling it. Um, but when we spoke last, I remember you saying that like, you know, one of the outcomes of this is to get you know, kind of put those sort of feelings aside and kind of focus more on the— on really what's going on. Talk to us about that.

Yeah, absolutely. Conscious entangling is really about avoiding shame and blame because there is no growth in that. We can't go forward from that perspective. So it's accepting that we— we're two of us in the relationship and that we each have our responsibility in it. And when we look at our responsibility from a place of different understanding, that's where the key is to be able to find solutions. Because when we're in blame and shame, we're not hearing anything. We're not— then we're completely closed to any possible pathway of going to the future and finding solutions.

So talk to us about— it's a 5-step— I think there's a couple variations, right? But what the core or the main plan, or I don't know what you would call it, is it a 5-step process?

Yeah, it's a 5-step process. It's actually— it's a roadmap to take us— a very well-thought-out roadmap to take from— take the person from a place of chaos and pain and Yeah, extreme pain, to getting to a place of finding calmness. We start being able to settle the emotions and get the freedom from the emotions, and then to practice to reclaim our power and our life and become— to break the patterns that we've established in the relationship. And those are patterns of where we're centered on ourselves where we're centered in ourselves, then we're— that's how we react with life and with others. So that's how we create the situation, and that's really where the key is to being able to change things. And then the— sorry, please go ahead. And then that we, we move on to being able to create a happy even after life.

Yeah, that's actually what I was going to ask you, is that Is this a— do you find that this helps people, you know, that aren't necessarily looking for another relationship right away, or so they're happy, you know, living life without another for a time period, and/or does it impact like their next relationships in some way?

It's really important that That people at first find that peace with themselves and learn to love themselves first. Because if we haven't gone through that process, we can repeat the same patterns. Because you see that now, first marriages, 50% of them end in divorce. A second marriage is 63%, and a third marriage is 74%. So it shows if we haven't taken that time. to understand, to heal, and to be more aware, we could repeat the same patterns. And it is— it can be a wise thing for a person to spend some time really finding themselves first and be very sure about the type of relationship that they want to create after.

So, um, is this— is it— is it a combination, or is it more about where Someone is in the present? Are we looking backwards? Are we looking forwards? Or is it a combination of all those things?

It really is a combination of, of, of those things. Uh, where with Conscious Uncoupling, it's very much about looking to what we've created to learn from that, not to wallow in it, not to, to remain a victim in that. in that situation, to learn the lessons from it and then move forward. We work very much with intentions of the life that we want to create, even the type of relationship that we want with our former partner, especially if there are children involved that we have to continue co-parenting. So it's a combination of both. It's really harvesting the good of the relationship that— because we've all had good parts in the relationship, even if it's been difficult, and it's been difficult at the end, but it's taking the best from the situation. And even if it's just learning the life lessons, that we pay that forward. But it's very much into creating a new, happier life.

It's more the process is a bit like, kind of, you kind of have to be a little bit of a self-starter. Is that correct? Or do you— because you have to do the work outside of the talks with you. Is that correct or am I wrong?

Well, there is the part of it where you work with the book, Catherine's book, which I have here, in fact. And that we use that as a basis that, um, the, the client will come work through the book, prepare each chapter, that the— it's a time for reflection and introspection. So there is that aspect of this is a serious business. You want to get this done, you want to do this right. And Catherine has spent a lot of time on this, and there's a lot of wisdom in the book. It gives you time for reflection. And then in the sessions with me, we dive deeper into that and explore it. I help pull it, pull it out a little. It's like matted hair that we start to undo the matted hair.

So this does— it's something that what you just said was really interesting to me. You think it has a, a very positive impact on the co-parenting relationship?

Absolutely. Absolutely, because this is keeping in mind, and that is really using that as northern star, that, and that helps people keep, keep away from blaming each other because there's something more. This is the future of our children that is at stake. Their happiness is at stake. And when we— people can realize that that is really important.

Yeah.

and we calm everything, then they can, they can start to negotiate and communicate more freely with the love of their children as the most important thing.

Yeah.

Also, the incentive in that is to give an example to children to make them feel secure and happy and loved. And we want to leave an example that they Even if a relationship doesn't continue, it doesn't mean it was a failure. It doesn't mean that was their fault, and there's a way through it.

I mean, I love everything you're saying because I, I'm not really— I'm, as I'm focused on the kind of the legal process and getting that behind people because I look, you can't start feeling more like yourself or, or, you know, living your best until you get the legal process behind you. I think it's so important that people really— I would reach out to Dipna, learn more about the conscious uncoupling process that she offers. She does it virtually and works all over the world, right?

Yeah, that's correct. I'm based in France, but I can do this.

Well, you sound—

I love meeting people from different countries.

You sound very French, so that's great. We're gonna keep this video just kind of introduction. I'm gonna put all of your information. Do you want to list out your website real quick so people can hear it?

Or yeah, yeah, it's dipnamacaloon. No, it's not. I've got it. It's gone. It is. It's dipnamacaloon coaching.

I was like, no, I think you're missing something. I like move my browser over. I'm like, I think there's one more. Yes, there we go.

Yes.

Uh, well, we're gonna keep this kind of just an introduction. Um, learn more about what Divna does. I really encourage you. You gotta feel better. You gotta, you know, we could all feel more like our true selves living our best lives. This is something that can help you do that. Um, and it's something that a lawyer shouldn't have anything to do with. So you really need to get a professional, um, and reach out to her. Okay, guys, it was a pleasure having you, Dipna.

It's a pleasure speaking to you. Thank you very much.