From Divorce To Teamwork: Building A Real Co-Parenting Partnership

Hey everyone, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper. I'm here with John Basford. Sorry, um, uh, John wrote a book called The Co-Parenting Secret, but it's not necessarily his day-to-day job in the, in the co-parenting world. He has a really interesting, uh, background. He has a big business. He, he's a, uh, someone that we're gonna learn about right now. But, um, John, what led you to kind of delve into the co-parenting and, and thought-provoking in the family law space? Uh, how did you enter that? How did you decide to do that?

Sure. So, I mean, actually, you know, simply, I was constantly being asked, um, you know, how is co-parenting with your ex-wife? Because a lot of people knew that our relationship did not end the best. And I got tired of saying, great, we could write a book on co-parenting. And so I actually decided to do it.

That's awesome. So did you write it from like beginning to end?

Yeah. So, you know, I really take people through a journey. You know, I start with my personal story growing up in a 2-home situation, talk about our situation, me and my ex-wife, because I think it's important, you know, when you read some of the stuff in my book about what we've been able to create in co-parenting, it sounds like a fairy tale. You know, my ex-wife came to my current wife's wedding. So did her parents. So did her uncles, right? We sit next to each other at sporting events. And I didn't want to paint this picture that we just, you know, had this fairytale separation and marriage and talked about how, you know, there was a lot of bitterness. There was anger when we got divorced, when we separated, you know, hashing everything out. But once that all ended, we were very, very intentional about what kind of co-parent relationship we wanted to start.

How did— when you— if you mind me asking, did you navigate the divorce process out of court, like in mediation, or with 2 lawyers and kind of in the court process?

Yeah. So, even kind of backing up before that, I mean, we spent the last 4 to 6 years of marriage in counseling and agreed to divorce in counseling. And then we both got our separate attorneys, hashed everything out. And there was really just kind of 2 sticking points, custody and the house buyout. That, you know, we took a little time to hash out. It took about 4 months from the time we agreed to separate to the separation agreement was final. But, you know, once all that was done and, you know, we submitted to the courts and, you know, here in Montgomery County, Maryland, you know, once you submit your separation agreement, you just go to court and have that rubber stamped, right? So it's a pretty easy process once we agreed on everything.

Did you have more than one kid or one kid at the time?

One kid. One kid, one and done.

And, uh, I don't— I'm not trying to pry too much. I'm just trying to get an understanding of like, what was he, a teenager? Was he young, like less than 8 or 10, or where was he?

Oh, young. Uh, he was, he was a year and a half when we separated. Okay. So he has only known a 2-home environment.

Wow, that's pretty, um, interesting. I mean, I deal with, uh, you know, as a mediation lawyer, uh, my wife is a co-parenting specialist, so her and I help people do what you do, what you've accomplished, um, kind of on the On the daily, but, um, but a lot of those folks, um, you know, uh, generally kind of have like, hey, we're not going to do like 90/10 custody, right? Like, they've already kind of have like an understanding of some sort that like they're there to like, you know, both be in the kids' lives. So it's much harder when obviously that's not the case. Um, it's pretty awesome that you guys were able to navigate. What are some of the, um, What are some of the pitfalls that you didn't, um, know about when you first did your settlement that came up later that you had to navigate without, you know, the attorneys or without any professionals? Or unless you— are you still doing like co-parenting courses together?

No. So we never did any courses or anything, you know. Even, even in the book I talk about, you know, creating a co-parenting plan, but was, you know, very honest that we did not have one. You know, we— you know, I, I talk about co-parenting plan and given some suggestions on how to create one and what to put in there. But we just learned as we went along. And for us, again, it was really just mainly 2 issues there at the end, which was buyout of the house and the custody. And quite frankly, I wanted to try to get as close to 50/50 custody as possible. Just again, from my upbringing of an '80s kid in divorce, it was your typical mom had Yeah. Education, health, physical, sick, carpool. And Dad had every other weekend for fun, you know, with no real responsibilities, right? And that's kind of how I saw that arrangement. And I didn't want that. I knew that if I was given the out of not having real responsibility, I wouldn't. And I didn't want that. I wanted my son to have a different relationship with me. And so we came to an agreement, ended up being 60/40. But now, actually, with some changes we made, it is almost exactly 50/50, if not leaning my direction a little bit more, because I also do— because I'm self-employed consultant, work from home. She's a pediatric nurse practitioner with patients. So if there's a sick day, a snow day, whatever, I take it because I have the flexibility.

Yeah. Um, uh, do you— what do you think about, um, in mediation, what I— or when I'm talking to people about, like, why mediation and all that? Uh, I often say like, listen, um, when you have a custody, um, like parenting terms put on you by a court or another lawyer, you don't abide by them basically. Like you kick and scream after the divorce and you show up late, you, you don't trade off, you take more time, you do what you want because you had someone tell you how you were going to parent. What are your thoughts about that? Do you think that people that are able to kind of set their plans together at the beginning are able more so to follow through on those plans?

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. You know, again, you know, for the most part, we, we came, you know, ended up coming to a pretty good agreement on how everything would work. And again, you know, we came to, you know, the very intentional understanding that we were both going to be in each other's lives, like families, everything. Like we're all going to sporting events, we're all going to school events, right? There was no your time and my time. It was our kids' time, right? So, so So again, coming into that intentional agreement of how we want to play this out absolutely makes a difference. And I will even say, on the flip side of that, that when you create— go into creating an intentional co-parent relationship where it just gels well, all the initial agreements just go out the window because you're there for each other. You help out when she needs help. She helps out when you need help. Obviously never tell anyone to disregard a legal document or court document here, but when it truly is working well and gelling, all the legal stuff goes away.

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, it's, it's kind of like a, if the shit hits the fan agreement, really. Like, if you aren't, if you aren't aligned, if your communication breaks down, at least having a plan, you know, get, make sure that you know when you're going to have Thanksgiving or what days you're going to have. You know, one of the things that comes up, obviously, like, Especially, you know, when the kids are like, like yours, real young. And, and if mom is still breastfeeding, or, or like, you know, the kids when they're like, you know, 1, 2 are still with mommy. 4, they kind of transition to daddy. Um, and, but people with really young kids don't know that that transition is coming. But one of the things that, um, I really don't like from the perspective of a child is when someone has an every other weekend. or when a dad in particular has an every other weekend sort of custody situation, is that he's not in her, or that person, he or she is not interacting with the school at all. And that's a huge part of growing up. And if you don't know, if you, the teacher never sees you, you're not on the school email list, like you're basically just, you're not, you're not an active parent. And that's something that, that I always try to stress, like, okay, if that's really what you guys want, like, I'm gonna write it down, right? Who am I? But maybe can we just do Thursday? Because then at least dad's dropping off on Friday morning. He's seeing the parent. He's got some stake in that, in the school system. What do you, what are your thoughts about that?

Yeah, I mean, I completely agree again. And again, this is no, no shame on my dad, but, you know, that's what I should— like, I would say my dad wasn't a parent. And again, that it was, I think it was a product of society at the time. That's just what, what was done. And I mean, I have to probably admit that my dad probably didn't want more than that at the time either. Not to get him off scot-free, but, but yeah, like, I, so I think there's 2 things, right? There's, there's that relationship, which, again, I grew up in the '80s, where I would not call it parenting from, from the dad's side. Then you have parallel parenting, where each parent is doing their complete opposite own thing, and there isn't that cohesion. And then there's the co-parenting, which is, you know, really the best way to do it to create that cohesive environment for your kids.

Yeah, no, I like that. I mean, I think it's really cool that, that you put the book out. It's got 5 stars on every platform. I read some of the reviews because I don't believe that anyone's telling the truth in reviews, but they were all like spread out. They looked like really legitimate. They had like, what do they call it on Amazon? Like author or verified purchase?

Yeah.

Yeah. Verified purchase. Yeah. So it's pretty awesome, man, that you, you did this. And while you have, you know, your, your whole, you have a whole other business. Can you just tell me about that real quick?

And sure. Yeah. So I'm a consultant. Sorry, a dog just jumped in the background there. I'm a consultant in business operations, helping startups, small businesses, and nonprofits create efficient, effective operations that help them grow. Through that, you know, we dive into, you know, process procedures type of operations, but also You know, deal with, you know, executive coaching, you know, helping the mindset of the leaders and letting go of control, letting go of ego. And then, you know, talking about how to build a culture that will truly innovate, grow, and change.

That's awesome, man. I love it. I love it. Well, listen, I'll let you go. It was a pleasure to talk to you guys. Get the book. I'll put all the links and all that good stuff. But, John, really appreciate a few minutes of your time and keep up the good work, my friend.

Thanks for having me, Scott. I enjoyed it.