Scott Levin and Alice Shikina explain how mediators work. Shikina uses open-ended questions to uncover hidden interests, reframes conflicts by shifting perspective slightly, and contrasts the mediator's big-picture view with lawyers' legal focus. She's teaching conflict transformation to incarcerated people in Redwood City.
Chapters
Hi everybody, this is Scott Levin, Chief Peacekeeper, and I am here today with my good friend and fellow mediator extraordinaire, Alice Shekhina. How are you, Alice?
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Scott.
So yeah, of course. Well, thank you. We just spoke for like a half hour. We could talk forever, but I know we're going to try to keep this to 10 minutes. And I just wanted to talk a little bit. First of all, I know Alice from ProVisors. We're both ProVisors members. And she's in the Bay Area. I'm down in San Diego, so kind of shows the power of ProVisors. But we've really hit it off. Alice and I talk tips, strategy. I consult with her about cases that I'm working on. She really has the magic sauce. And I just kind of thought that we could talk for a few minutes, Alice, about, you know, what we actually do in mediation. When, you know, you have 2 parties with opposing views about whatever we're there to help resolve. And, you know, how do we as mediators, and how do you as a mediator extraordinaire work to help people resolve their disputes? And I just thought we could talk some about some tips and tricks and, you know, the actual work of mediation for a few minutes.
Absolutely. So I like to think of the role of a mediator as an investigator. Right, so I'm there to ask a ton of questions. I ask as many questions as I can possibly come up with because I'm really trying to find out what is really going on. Because people don't come in telling us what's really going on, even though they think they are. Like, sometimes people don't even realize what their own interests are. And so by asking a lot of questions, we slowly get to the answer. And when we get to that answer, then we can start giving solutions to the actual problem. So that's sort of how I, at least initially, approach the problem.
Yeah. And so when 2 people, like in a context of any mediation, I guess, you know, what sort of probes do you— are they open-ended questions? Do you— how do you get people to feel comfortable and kind of open up to you, you know, and to get the conversation started?
So 2 things: no judgment and lots of warmth and positivity. So when people come in, I'm smiling. Even if it's a divorce, I'm smiling, at least not like I'm super happy, but very warm and friendly and inviting. And I want to make sure that I am not judging anyone. Um, I teach communication skills, and one of the things I always ask is I say, how many of you in this room have felt judged by someone even though they didn't say anything? And almost 100% of the hands go up, no matter Where I am and who I'm speaking to. So in the same way, if you're a mediator and you're like sizing people up, you know, you figure, oh, this is that husband who's like obviously been really mean to the wife, or this is a narcissistic spouse, or anything, any thoughts like that, you're going to already wreck your mediation. So you have to be very open-minded and you have to really like both people equally. That is like the very beginning when they walk through the door. Like, you really should, like, really like them, be warm, be friendly, and just, you know, give them a feeling of love, right? That you, that you respect them as a human being, that you hear what they're saying. And that's really, really important. Without that, everything sort of starts sliding sideways. Wouldn't you agree?
I totally agree. And, you know, it's interesting that, you know, you can make 2 people feel like they've won, even though they've changed their mind and come to an agreement that they didn't think that they were going to. And it's all about, you know, bringing in the people, you know, trying to genuinely help them move forward with whatever they're, you know, trying to move forward with in a way that, that they understand that if they do this, they're really winning, even though They thought that that would be a loss when they first walked in the door. And it's a really interesting kind of approach and thing that, that both of us see happening, happening all the time.
Yes, I absolutely love— that's my magic wand, is my magic wand changes people's perspectives. And so what I really like to do is point out where they're winning. And if I have to, I'll put them in separate rooms so that I can say, look, If you get this, this is a win, and here's why. But in order to be able to do that, I have to understand what it is that they really, really want. And I say, if you really want this, then this other— this agreement that you're going to come to is actually a win, and here's why. And once I lay it out to them, a lot of times they'll be like, oh, I didn't really think of it that way. Right? It's just shifting the perspective just a little bit. And it's like thinking about a ship. When you're, when you're driving a very large ship, all you have to do is change the angle 2 degrees. And 2 miles later, it's a very, very different outcome of where they landed. Right? So I think of what I do as shifting a couple of degrees so that they will land in a very different direction later on.
Yeah. And those, you know, any, any victory, any win that you can have in bringing people together, you know, even as however small, is a win. So that's totally like, you know, I love that 2-degree angle. And over the, you know, 2-degree angle over the course of the entire Atlantic Ocean, you know, puts someone on a whole new trajectory.
Right.
And what we're really trying to do is put people on new trajectories, get rid of the, uh, you know, being under the pressure of a litigation or a lawsuit, uh, of any kind, you know, is really can be a disruptive thing in someone's life. So You know, money is one thing, but moving forward, peace, you know, what's best for their kids, you know, prospect of a new life, you know, all these things need to be considered. And I love how, you know, you start by, you know, diving deep into those sort of questions so that you can find out what the person really wants, whether they know it or not.
The other thing that I like to compare what I do. Sometimes I'll be mediating and there'll be attorneys in the room, and I always think about attorneys are looking at everything through a microscope. They want to make sure that everything is airtight, that things are done correctly. So in order to do that, they're using microscopes. You can't see the same thing if you're looking through a telescope, and I feel like I'm the person looking through the telescope. And so I can see the much larger picture. So very frequently, if I'm brainstorming, I can throw out ideas and help the parties because I'm looking at it from a very, very different perspective from both both the parties and their attorneys. I have a very different perspective. It's like looking through the telescope. And so frequently I can offer something and everyone in the room is like, that's actually a good idea. We never thought of it. And they won't have thought of it because of the fact that they're coming from different perspectives.
And you know what, what I realize now that I look back on my life is I was always kind of a mediator. Like, you know, growing up, even 3rd, 4th grade, I was always a problem solver, always trying to bring people together. Do you have kind of— when you look back on your life, are you surprised that you ended up in this sort of profession, or does it really kind of line up with like what, you know, what you— what your personality really was fit for?
So I would never really play the role of a mediator, but I always played the role of a therapist. So I was the person where my friends came and told me about whatever the problems they're having. But I have to say, one of the things that definitely is translating back to my mediation practice is that I have not held judgment against people. And so I think in my entire life, people are always comfortable coming to me and telling me about their deepest, darkest secrets. And when I tell other people like, oh yeah, I hear people's secrets, many people don't believe me. They're like, why would someone just tell you this if, if they've met you like once or twice? And I say, I don't know, but they do. They trust me and they tell me, you know, some of their darkest secrets, and then they ask me for advice or support. Or help. And so I think that is definitely what makes me a really good mediator, because regardless of who I am mediating with, I always leave judgment at the door. I never let it come in. I don't let it affect my thoughts. I don't let it affect my actions and the way I treat people. I really want to treat everyone with respect equally. And, you know, I want everyone to feel like we are on the same level. I don't want anyone to ever think that I am better than them.
Yeah, and I think that really, I mean, what you say is true. You have all those things about your personality are definitely true from what I've experienced. And tell us a little bit about the panel that you're, you're speaking on a panel for the— what's the organization? I'm sorry.
The one in Canada?
Yes, yes, yes.
Yeah, so it's, it's in British Columbia. It's the Virtual Mediation Conference, and I'm speaking in a few hours. So I'll be talking about 2 different things. One is for the UN conference, and that one is about how my theater practice and my past informs my mediation practice. And the other talk is going to be about my experience teaching conflict transformation to the incarcerated in the Redwood City jails.
Wow, that's really cool. So if people want to get a hold of you, where— how do they find you? Can you tell us, you know, give us your information real quick?
Yes, they can find me at alice.shikina.com. Shikina is spelled S-H-I-K-I-N-A. They can also email me at alice.shikina@gmail.com.
