What Is A Certified Divorce Financial Analyst And How Can They Help You Achieve A Successful Divorce

Hi everybody, my name is Scott Levin. I am the Chief Peacekeeper at San Diego Divorce Mediation and Family Law, and I am joined today by Tanya Aray. Hi Tanya.

Hi Scott, how's it going?

Good, how are you?

I'm good. It's Friday.

Yes, it's Friday in COVID. Yes, that's such a thing anymore. Are there days of the week? So today I really wanted to take just a few minutes to introduce Tonya and have a, have a recorded conversation that we're going to post to our social media. Tonya is someone that I oftentimes will recommend to my clients in mediation that they should hire her as a certified divorce financial analyst. And I, and a lot of people don't know what a certified divorce financial analyst does. It's also called a CDFA. We'll probably use that terminology during this talk. But Tanya, could you kind of talk to us briefly about the work that you do in divorce, in the divorce world, and how you may have started?

Sure. So a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. So what that means is I gather people's financial information during the divorce process. Everyone going through the divorce process is required to disclose their finances. And once they disclose their finances, I take all of those numbers and all of their assets and their debts, and I figure out what it looks like today, what it's going to look like the day after divorce, and what it's going to look like down the line. And when I say what it's going to look like, I mean your financial future, right? At the end of the day, when you split a household in 2, especially in Southern California, it's something that has to be understood on all levels. So I started doing this work because I myself went through divorce almost 7 years ago, 7-ish years ago. And I luckily knew a lot of the finances. However, there were many things I didn't know. And, you know, knowing what I know now, I would have really done a few things differently, especially when it came to, you know, what our assets look like, what our debts look like. And really what the future looked like for my children and I and my ex-husband. So that's why I do this work. I think providing that financial clarity for people is key moving forward.

Yeah. And, you know, I really want to talk today about your work in the world of mediation because that's what I do. I'm a mediator. So, you know, I am an attorney, but I practiced exclusively in mediation. So I call myself the Chief Peacekeeper, gave myself that fancy title. But, you know, really in mediation you are saving yourself oftentimes so much money on the legal fees that you can surround yourself with a team of experts that can help guide you throughout the divorce process. And that's really where Tanya can come in and help somebody. So I guess briefly, let me just talk. To our listeners about the differences between litigation and mediation. So litigation, the first thing that your attorney would do when you engage an attorney, and I'm not speaking poorly about attorneys or family law attorneys, I love many of them. You can, I like to say you can certainly take them out to lunch, just don't want to hire them. That's a bad joke. Sorry. Is, you know, the first thing that your attorney does when you engage someone for a family law matter And I was guilty of this too when I was practicing in litigation, is you need all the junk. You need— you ask for all the stuff that went down. You know, what are all the bad things that happened? What did that person do to you? And the reason that they need that information is that they need to position their client versus the other spouse, because there's going to be a winner and a loser in litigation. And the only way to win or lose is to defeat the person. The only way to win is to defeat the other person. And to do that, you really need all the stories and all the bad stuff that went down, if there is such a thing. And that's the first step in a litigation process. In mediation, it's quite different. We are future-focused. So when I get a client that calls me, For the first thing that I do is say, I appreciate the call and I would love to talk with you, but I can't talk with you outside this— outside of the room with your spouse. In order for me to be an effective and ethical mediator, I have to be neutral. And so the first thing that we do is really schedule a call for all of us to speak. And, and from there, that's, that's really the last time that I'm ever speaking with that one person without the other there. And the reason is that we work as a team to address their issues of divorce. And the issues of divorce are always, you know, really a lot of times the same. As you know, Tanya, it's the asset and debt division. There's the child and spousal support, you know, the support issue. And then if they have children, obviously a parenting plan. And so we work as a team to figure out their solutions to those problems. And we don't work in the past. We're focused on what you kind of mentioned, Tanya, which is, you know, how do we— what are the assets going to look like, not just today, but in the future? And that's a really big difference in mediation versus litigation is how do you want to spend that time? Do you want to spend 2 years looking backwards in a litigated divorce, or do you want to spend a much shorter time And spend a lot less money looking forwards and figuring out how you guys can both move forward. Tanya, let me ask you a question. How do you work well? Oftentimes my clients, there's a more knowledgeable spouse and a less knowledgeable spouse in terms of the assets and debts. Do you find that as well?

I do. I usually find exactly that. One of them has more access, has more accounts. And the other one is just kind of on autopilot, assuming everything's okay. But obviously when we go through divorce, everything is no longer okay. And it really has to be clear what assets the family has. So as you were saying, in mediation, you're going to dig up all the bad, you're going to dig up all the good. One of the first things I tell people to do is put a timeline together of when you got married, when you had your kids. And if you know your date of separation, and sometimes people don't know that, then that's why they're kind of working it out in mediation. But that timeline helps me understand what is actually community property when it comes to your finances. Where am I calculating from beginning to end? And again, sometimes one spouse just knows more than the other. And in the ideal world, people come to me together also. And they're both forthcoming with all of their financial information. That doesn't necessarily happen all the time. Usually I get one party coming in prior to mediation saying, I want to know what this is going to look like before I even go to the mediator. That only works if we actually have all of the information. And, you know, at the end of the day, most couples do want to know that before they go to mediation. It's a step that they can do. But then there are some times where they're just like, I'm not going to give all this information. Now we don't even know where we're going. Are we really getting divorced? There's a lot of back and forth. So in those situations, I need people to go to Scott, sit there, figure out what they want to do, how they want to move forward, do the paperwork, and then be in the process, which requires the disclosure for both parties, right? And then when that happens, I can get all the information. Again, Scott and I talk about what it's going to look like with the permission of the client, of course, because Scott needs to be the one to figure out spousal and child. I figure out everything else, but those 2 components need to work together to plan for post-divorce life.

Yeah. So basically once you file for divorce with the help of a mediator or however you do it, you're required to fill out 2 sets of financial forms, an income and expense declaration and your asset and debt declaration. So basically, you're required to, under penalty of perjury, to complete those statements in full and without anything missing. And so in mediation, the first session of mediation, I usually go over those forms with my clients and make sure that there aren't any questions. If there are questions, we need to dig deeper. Into what's missing, or, you know, what if there's an account that, you know, one person thinks was larger and now it's not, etc. We really dig into that. But at that point, in my opinion, Tanya, that's the perfect time for those 2 clients to then engage Tanya because they have their asset and debt and their income statements completed. And they've completed them in a way that I, as someone that's been in this field for a very long time, am comfortable with. Now certainly things could still be missing, but we're at least, you know, pretty comfortable with what's there. And then Tanya can work with the parties to, you know, plug in their information into this special software that she has and basically show them, you know, this is what the— these are the options, what these are, some options that you can play with in terms of dividing those assets. And if one person takes the house, And then buys the other person out, then how do you even out the 401, et cetera? So she has a really great software program. What's it called, Toni? I'm sorry.

It's Family Law Software. And Scott, one of the other benefits of you looking at all the numbers and me looking at all the numbers is that we can always cross-check each other, right? And because I take a deeper dive into the numbers, so when I say numbers, I mean I ask for statements, I ask for tax returns. So I ask for, you know, an intake form, but I match everything up. So if something is amiss, like if somebody got a deposit of $10,000 and I can't find exactly where it came from, those are the type of things that we want to make sure gets completely disclosed. Because down the path, my understanding is— and Scott, you can correct me if I'm wrong— but if one party hides an asset, And it is found later, the other party could get the entire asset. Is that correct?

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely possible. I mean, courts don't like people misleading them under penalty of perjury. So, you know, not a good, not a good thing to, to fill out those forms knowingly in an incorrect manner. But like Tanya said, you know, as a mediator, people sometimes come to me and they think that They can send me, you know, 16 different emails with all their statements and I can somehow coordinate that and figure it all out and match it up. What I'm doing as a mediator in that first meeting is really trying to understand if there's disagreement before I dig into the background information. What Tanya is doing as a financial expert essentially is digging into the financial information and back in the backup data from the very get-go. And those are 2 different roles. So you're getting 2 very smart people that are trying to accomplish the same thing, but are essentially, you know, reviewing each other's work. And the combined fee, our 2 combined fees would still be, you know, maybe 7 to 8% of what a litigated divorce would be. So you're still saving a tremendous amount of money, but you have 2 people with many years of divorce cross-checking each other's work on the financial side. Which is only a good thing.

And Scott, I don't know this, and maybe you do, but on average, how much is a litigated divorce? I mean, I've seen litigated divorces go up to $200,000 over years. I frankly don't know anybody that's gotten out of it for under $30,000 in a litigated divorce. Maybe there's a lower way to do it or a less expensive way in litigation, but I find As soon as the parties can work together, even though they may have started not working together, that seems to be the least expensive way out of this particular process.

Yeah, and you can't, and you can't really even measure it. There's no doubt that it's the least expensive in terms of mediation, the least expensive option, but you can't measure the emotional savings that we are able to Convey to our clients because, you know, the average divorce in Southern California is now just at 2 years, the litigated divorce.

Mm-hmm.

And again, a lot of it is past-focused. So it's, it's what did he or she do to me and why should that matter to the, to the judge and to the court in awarding me more than the other person. So 2 years stuck in the past is a— it can be a very challenging thing for anybody. Uh, you know, the average mediated divorce that I'm working on is between 5 and 7 weeks. So, you know, Hmm. once we start, we keep the momentum going by having weekly meetings and we really attack these issues. And, and I spend, I spend, uh, 90 minutes per session and I have 5 sessions that are included. In my divorce package. And, and you would be surprised at how much room that we can cover when 2 people are sitting down and talking through about the issue of spousal support, for example, or child support or a parenting plan. I mean, 90 minutes is a very long time to try to figure out that issue. It doesn't sound like it, but it is. And, and, you know, you're essentially getting you know, 10 hours of a lawyer's time just with both parties to try to figure out solutions. And I'm not sure in a litigated situation if you ever see your lawyer for a total of 10 hours during that 2-year period. You know, maybe when you're going to court for that 25-minute hearing, but I mean, it's, you know, you really get a lot of value. But I want to just The reason I asked Tanya on for this call, or for this recording, was that I want to make more people aware of the CDFA designation, the Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, and Tanya's services in particular. Any mediator that's worth their weight loves to hear that their clients are working with a CDFA.

Right.

Those clients are educated. Those clients believe in the, in the accuracy of the figures that are being discussed. And if you can't believe in the accuracy of the figures that are being discussed, then you'll never trust the end goal, which is a mediated agreement. And you'll be just— you won't have that trust, and it will be very difficult for both people to sign the document because they don't have that trust.

And one thing I should mention, Scott, too, is First of all, thank you. You're so nice. And 2, one of the things I want to mention is, you know, I get a lot of people also saying, well, you know, we can do this without a mediator. We don't need a lawyer. We'll just fill out the forms and file them. And I can absolutely 100% tell people that that is not the best idea. I can't tell you how many cases I've seen where people have decided to forego the mediator, forego the lawyer. Fill out all their paperwork, forego me, totally fine. File all their paperwork only for there to be a big hole in the middle of the process. It gets stalled. They don't know where to go, but they've already filed paperwork. And then eventually a lawyer or a mediator gets involved anyway. When it comes to the numbers, I end up getting involved and doing a little bit more cleanup because stuff was filed, but it wasn't filed accurately because one spouse wasn't necessarily being forthcoming. Um, And I know everybody wants to save money on this process. It's already so painful emotionally, financially, but I definitely recommend using a mediator, a lawyer, or someone to help you through this process because there are lots of nuances that— I mean, why would you know? You've never been through divorce. We do it all day, but it happens and you don't want to be going back for that kind of information.

Yeah, and there is an option, like, you know, so the most expensive options are to go to court and hire lawyers. Then there's a mediator. Now you could find a paralegal that can help you fill out the paperwork, but absolutely, a lot of people will come to me and say, do I need a lawyer to review what that paralegal is completing? I would say you're better off spending your money on Tanya and the paralegal combined than getting it reviewed by an attorney, because really divorce becomes about the The number, the numbers. And it's about the asset and debt division, and it's about the support. And Tanya and a CDFA is someone that can get that number right. And, and, and you have to trust that number because the last thing that we want you to do, any lawyer or mediator— well, maybe not lawyer— what we really want you to do is be okay with the agreement that you sign so that you can move forward.

Mm-hmm.

But about 50% of people that get divorced end up back in court to fight about something else after the divorce. And that is a very costly process. It sucks to be dragged, you know, quote unquote dragged back into court by your ex. If you have children, you know, it can be, you know, not good for the co-parenting relationship. Obviously, there are—

Yeah.

The fact that that many people are going back to court. There's a need for it at times, but if you are confident in the financials being accurate, then a lot more people will be confident in the agreement that they signed and live by it. And so I just can't recommend Tanya, RA, more, any more than I already do to all of my clients. She's fantastic. And I encourage you to reach out. Tania, how can people find you?

So my email address is taure@financialguide.com. My cell is 858-206-9411. Text, call, I'm here. And Scott, I really appreciate your accolades. You're so sweet. And I will say that I recommend you everywhere I go for mediation, just because I think it's the first stop. If you can defuse the process and get these 2 people to work with each other, and I just frankly find your personality is totally right up that alley, right? You just kind of understand how to talk to people, get them to understand any other way is going to be significantly more painful emotionally and financially. I can't recommend you high enough.

Yeah, they— I just actually, right before we started recording this, I got off a call with a client and they have 4 young kids.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm really thankful that they trusted me enough to help them. But I mean, 4 young kids under 8, and in this case, you know, one of the parties wants the divorce and the other doesn't. That's not always the case, but it is in this one. And there's a lot of emotions, and it could be a trigger, you know, for an expensive, You know, fight. And I'm really, you know, I'm all about just trying to help families move forward. You know, once you've decided to divorce, it's happening. And oops, sorry. Sorry about that. And my goal is to just help people, you know, move forward and focus on the future. So I appreciate that too.

Thanks for having me on today, Scott. I really appreciate it.

My pleasure. We'll see you soon. Thank you.

Thank you.