EP 1 THE BROKER BS FILTER (PART 1)

Hello, I want to welcome everybody to our very first podcast, our pilot podcast. We are Brokers Uncensored, where we're going to talk about real estate reality. Everyone is invited to listen, whether you're in our industry or not. We welcome your comments, we welcome your attendance, and we're going to have lots of fun with this. This is going to be raw and real. Today we're going to talk about a topic, but before I get to that topic, I want to introduce all of us to you so you know who we are. Uh, we have Shadd Boucher. Uh, he is a managing broker with RE/MAX Alliance Group. We have Becky Dewey. She also is a RE/MAX Alliance Group managing broker. And myself, Steve Zaras. I am also a RE/MAX Alliance Group managing broker. Uh, so today's topic, our very first topic, we feel strongly about, and that is the broker BS filter. So we're going to go over what they don't tell you when you're new in our industry. And we've got several questions. We might have a second part to this. Actually, I'm pretty positive we're going to have a second part of this. So we hope you enjoy it. This is going to be very candid. This is not formal. You know, we're going to have fun with this. And we're going to try and be very informative. We're going to make it light, and we hope you enjoy it. But Please give us your comments. At the end of the program, you will have all of our contact information if you wanted to contact us. Uh, anyway, so let's get started. Uh, very— the very first question I would ask is, you know, how do we explain to somebody that when you're getting into our industry as a realtor that you are self-employed? I don't think a lot of folks realize that they're self-employed. So, Shad, you want to take a stab at that?

Yeah, I, I'll be honest with you, Steve. I don't think So first of all, I think let's back up like half a second. All they teach you in real estate class is how to pass a test. They teach you how to pass a test. They do not tell you you're opening a business. And I think that's the biggest thing is that you are self-employed, but you're also a small business owner at the exact same time. And I think that they don't tell you that, you know, before you do this, you're going to probably— you're probably going to expend $3,000 before you actually see Dollar one, you know, between getting yourself into the MLS, getting yourself, you know, with the National Association of Realtors, buying business cards, getting headshots, you know, all these kinds of things. And they don't even tell you that you're doing any of this. So people come into this thinking that it's HGTV. They're going to basically all of a sudden just start showing houses and making money, and, and that's how it's going to work. But you're really, in reality, opening a small business. Not only are that, but you're a 1099 employee, meaning that the brokerage owes you where you're going to go. They really don't. They can't tell you to be anywhere. They can't tell you what to do. But on the flip side, they also don't owe you anything, which is, which is what most people believe, that it's, it's, you know, a one-way street, that the brokerage is going to give me leads and do these things. You're on your own. You're literally on your own. And I think unfortunately that a lot of brokers, you know, in the last 10 years have got— have gone the way of the dodo as far as supporting any agents because it's just there's no money in it for them. So I don't know, I think it's just— it's a weird dichotomy. But again, none of this do they tell you in real estate school. None of it.

And Becky, do you have anything you'd like to add?

Well, I think on the flip side of it, I think if you're a business-minded individual that has the resources to sustain your household and that kind of thing for a few months, knowing that you won't have a commission. I think there's probably no other business that you can— or no other— yeah, that you can start your own business for a few thousand bucks.

Good point.

So, you know, I mean, and if you're open-minded to the training and the hard work that it's going to take, I mean, the reality is, is I know when I meet with new agents, I don't sugarcoat it. This is going to be hard. This is going to have to put in a lot of work. This is going to be a sacrifice for you. But if you stick with it and follow the guidance that we have within our training programs, that kind of thing, then you're going to be great. But, you know, I think that is probably one of the hard— you know, one of the hardest things is they don't— they aren't told. And reality is, like most tests, they're not teaching you how to do the business or anything about it. So it's just— it is really just how to pass the test and move on to the next phase.

I remember when I got into the business, I was told by my mentor that I was not going to make a penny for the first 6 months, but I was going to have to spend money on all of these different items and memberships. You know, you gotta think of your signs, your lockboxes, you know, joining the MLS, joining the association, your real estate license, continuing education. The list goes on. And, and then when you start explaining to them, look, you gotta sit, you gotta take money off your taxes. Your broker takes a little piece of that check or a large piece of that check. You've got to pay for your car, your cleaners. There's a lot of things that you need to consider. And if you don't have the resources to survive the first 6 to 12 months, you're in trouble. It is an investment. So yes, for a few thousand dollars, you can get into business, but maintaining your lifestyle and your bills during that time period can be a huge stress on a family. And I tell folks, look, it might take you up to 5 years to get to a point where your business is on autopilot, but it's a struggle from now until then.

You know, and I think, I think to kind of piggyback on that, Steve, I think that most people don't know. Most people would be shocked if, if before you signed up for real estate school to get your license, there was a big red floating disclaimer that said 87% chance of failure. That most people would just back away.

Right.

And, but that's the reality of it.

And I'm glad you brought that up.

Yeah, I think there's a huge false perception. I think most of the agents are thinking why they get into the business, is it necessarily because they want to, or because they know somebody who's extremely successful and they make it look easy? So they think, oh, I'm going to get my real estate license, I'm going to get into the real estate business, and I'm going to make $1 million in my first year. That is not realistic. At all. And that's unfortunately— there, that's the false perception that is out there.

Well, that's HGTV again. Trust me, if that show went off tomorrow, I couldn't— I couldn't— I wouldn't be upset. I really wouldn't.

When I would teach the new member orientation class, I would tell them that the odds are against them, and I would tell them that most of them will not be here in 1 year. And they would come up to me during the breaks or after the class, and they all said the same thing. I'm not everybody else. I am different.

And I'll—

and I say to them, look, when you see me out and about, because I do go to a lot of functions, please say hello to me. During the last couple of years, I would say maybe 3 people have done that.

Yeah.

So let me ask you a question, Steve. When you used to teach those classes, was your nickname Mr. Sunshine?

Just curious. They actually responded well to me, but I was also trying to be real to them.

Correct.

Letting them know there's a lot of responsibilities that come along with Having a real estate license, 100%. And, and later, at a later date, we'll get into compliance and all that other stuff.

But, uh, I'm sick that day.

Yes, yes. No, anyway, okay, so, uh, if I could just piggyback on this topic here, um, they have to handle, you know, their own personal accounting, branding. They got to think of branding. They got to think of lead generation and customer service. And, and I think, Chad, I believe you mentioned about joining a brokerage and they think they're going to get leads. The best lead system they have is their sphere of influence, doing open houses, shaking hands, passing out cards. Nothing is better than the old-fashioned way. I don't care what anybody says. Do you agree?

I, I do. Becky, you want to take that one real quick?

Yeah, I totally agree. Um, I think You know, the cold calling days and the door knocking days. First of all, that's not safe anymore. But you know, that was kind of like the popular thing when I got into the business. And really just talking to people. And like I tell the agents, have a name tag on, have a RE/MAX shirt on, or, you know, your company shirt on. You don't have to start the conversation. Somebody has an opinion or something about all things real estate, whether it be, you know, the way the market's going or, you know, interest rates or whatever it is. You don't even have to start the conversation. I can guarantee you, if you have a name tag on or something that identifies that you're in the business, somebody's going to strike up a conversation with you, whether you're in Publix, whether you're at Walmart, at the gas station. So, um, and that's how you build it too. But just reminding everybody that you know within your sphere, um, that you're in the business, you know. And you can't just tell them once. I mean, I've been guilty of it too, you know. I drove when I was listing and selling real estate, I drove past one of my friend's houses and there's somebody else's sign in the front yard. Imagine how happy I was about that, you know? And it was just like, you know, we hadn't talked in a few years, but it's like, it's always, you know, just casually reminding everybody that you're in the business. And if they're not interested in buying or selling, they certainly know somebody who is. And you want to be the first one they think of when they're in those conversations.

Let me tell you something to piggyback on what you said. You can see, everybody can see my name tag here. I went to a seminar luncheon yesterday, and I went with my wife, and it was, it was about retirement, the big beautiful bill. At least that's what they said it was going to be about. That's why I went. Turned out to be a sales pitch, but it was an interesting meeting, and they gave us a nice lunch at a very nice restaurant. So it was nice. And he got to a section where he had a whole list of issues that are affecting us these days, and one of them was on interest rates. And he saw my name tag and he said, Steve, he says, what do you have to say about interest rates? And I looked, I said, don't even get me started. And he laughed. So he went on. He was a really nice speaker. And next thing you know, I don't know, 20 minutes later he was done. And he said, you know what, give me some of your cards, Steve. And then he said to everybody in the room, hey, who needs a realtor? And he started passing out my cards for me. And then one guy in the next table, he says, Steve, do you deal with first-time buyers? I said, I love first-time buyers. He goes, I'm gonna call you. Can I have your card, please? But this speaker, he initiated that, and I had my name tag. Now, if I didn't have my name tag and I just sat there as a participant, nothing would have happened.

Yep.

You're constantly marketing yourself.

I think that's to your point, Steve, is you have to become a hunter in this business. Yes. There is no such thing— when you wake up in the morning and you jump out of bed, you're hunting, and you're hunting until you go back to bed that night. And, you know, it was interesting. One time a mentor told me that contact equals contract and that that's one of the most important things out there. And I think so many agents try to get into this business and they're either introverts or they don't want to be bothered, or, you know, in fact, I even see, you know, seasoned agents that walk around the grocery store looking like the paparazzi's after them, you know. And, and why? You know, that's— this is how you make money, is, is Talking to people, and I think you know to your point, you can get transactional business. You can you know I'm going to make a thousand phone calls to get a hundred yeses to get fifty shots at something and twenty-five of these. You can do that, but it's not sustainable, and I think most people don't even realize that. But but again, this is just something they don't even talk to you about in real estate. Yeah, something that they don't even say. And I think it's just— I think it— I think everybody comes out of that class with just a terrible expectation of what this is gonna be like, literally what this is gonna be.

Well, and the instructors are a little exact. They exaggerate very much too, at least in my experience. All those instructors, they've done it all. They've seen it all. They, you know, but you know, they have.

Well, what's the old joke, guys? What's the old joke? Those who can do Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym. You know, so that's, that's the joke, right? Yeah. So a lot of times I think that's— unfortunately, you don't get the best instructors. You get people that are in the twilight of their career and they want to, you know, go do this. And, and, you know, that's, that's great. They've got a lot of world-time wisdom, but as soon as you stop producing, you kind of lose touch.

That's right. All right, let's go on to the next topic. Uh, this is 100% commission-based when you enter this career, and we've all had these horror stories. You may be depending on a closing to pay your bills or whatever, and, and then something goes wrong, you don't get paid. So we only get paid if the deal closes. That's it. There's no salary, there, there's no stipend. So, Becky, let's let you go first this time. What do you have to say about that?

Well, again, it kind of goes back to making sure that you have the resources to sustain your household for a minimum of 6 months.

Yes.

And, you know, I've had agents come to me from other industries where they have a type of sales background where they were kind of used to the commission-based, and they've done very well. You know, some of them have, you know, spouses or significant others that can financially sustain them. So it's just about having that discussion with them, making sure that they can do that. And then if they can't, then, you know, obviously we can discuss other options as far as once they do get to that point, or maybe going to, you know, the thing is, is we want to get them into the, into the business full-time. I don't think they're going to be successful and hit their goals if they're doing it part-time and working somewhere else the other time, because this really is a full-time dedicated business. So, for sure.

Okay, Chad.

Let me ask you guys a question. You guys have done this as long as I have, and you've recruited and trained probably more people than I have. Have you guys ever seen a part-timer make it more than you can count on two hands? No, no, right? There's there's no there's no room in this business for halfway, and I think that's a that's a massive mistake that gets made all the time. And I think. I think a lot of people come to this business with no concept what commission-based sales is.

Yes.

And they don't have any idea what— I mean, I've seen realtors end up with IRS bills in the, you know, tens of thousands of dollars because they forgot to pay Uncle Sam and didn't have that money at the end of the year.

My favorite is when the agents come to me at the end of the year with their 1099 and go, this is wrong. I didn't make this much money. Where is it? And I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know.

What did you do with it?

Yeah, this is wrong.

Yeah, we make that much money.

You've all heard it's not what you make, it's what you do with it.

Oh yeah, exactly. It has nothing to do with what you make, it has everything to do with what you keep.

And I've had some candid conversations with some agents that I didn't know what they did with it.

Um, so yeah, I, I've had some conversations with agents when I, when I would tell them, look, when you make good money, or if, you know, we give them a nice-sized check, like, hey, save this money, live on the basics. Like, for myself, I pay myself the same amount every month.

Yeah.

And my business account goes up and down and up and down, but my goal is to get the 12 months living expenses, emergency fund, whatever you want to call it. If you can get to that point, uh, and, and of course that goes up and down based on how much you're feeding that account, but when it gets low, I get real nervous. But thankfully, uh, that hasn't happened too often. But I tell agents, live within your means. And if that means you can't go out and eat every night and you can't drive, you know, an expensive car, do what you have to do. Yeah, it's about sacrifice.

Yeah, I think it's also making sure that, you know, like, like I mentioned, the significant other or the spouse is also on board and they understand it as well, especially if they're going to be, if they're going to be sustaining, you know, maybe the household income. You know, after a while they're going to be like, okay, we got a bunch of money going out and nothing's coming in. What are you doing? So that kind of, you need to make sure that they understand it as well and they're on board and understand that. You know, could be 6 months before we do it. And we have, you know, a few thousand dollars of startup costs to get the ball rolling here. So, um, I think it's important that the significant other, spouses—

Well, and I think that's a great point you brought up, Becky. And I'm sorry to hijack your question, Steve, but yeah, their spouse has to be on board with this. Yes, their spouse has to be 100% on board with this business because if they're not, That spouse can derail that train quicker than anything.

Sure.

I've seen that. I heard something many years ago. I don't know how true it is, but, uh, yes, you're absolutely right, Chad. If they're not on board, you're not going to have an easy time making it in this business. But I've also heard if they— if your spouse is supportive of what you're trying to do, you can be 5 times more successful.

100%. 100%. Because, I mean, we all know this business is tough. You know, this business is real tough. And, and most people, you know, to your point of being 1099, most people aren't used to being their own boss.

Problem.

I mean, nobody's, nobody's there shaking you awake at 7 AM and telling you to get up and get moving.

Yes.

You know, I mean, I don't, I don't know about you guys, but I don't call the agents I have underneath me every day going, hey, it's 9 AM, why aren't you in the office? So now you're, you're left to your own worst devices and Yeah, and if you're not moving every day, you're done every day.

Yes, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, you're fine. No, no, I think, I think you're to your point, like you were going to say, Steve, is, is the great motto, right?

Which is every day you are unemployed when you wake up.

Yep, 100% unemployed and, and, and making zero money unless you go out and go find it.

Exactly.

And I think that's, you know, I think it's also, it's really funny, it's why car salesmen don't do well in our business. Because they wait in the office for people to show up instead of actually out there actively hunting.

So then they're a bunch like a bunch of piranhas when you walk in. All right, whose turn is it?

Exactly.

Then you're there all day. All right, I'm gonna segue into something that Becky said earlier about, you know, getting into this business for a few thousand dollars. Uh, Becky, can you break that down a little bit, you know, so that people understand?

Sure. Well, obviously you have your licensing expenses, your state exams and that kind of thing. You would be required to join the Board of Realtors, which is typically prorated based on the time of year that you join. So I usually kind of spitball that number. It's usually around $1,000, somewhere around in there to join the Board of Realtors, which includes your MLS fees and that kind of thing. And then obviously business cards, any signage that you need. I mean, obviously, I would think starting out you wouldn't need a ton of signs unless you, you know, have some You know, you have some listings kind of waiting for you. And just really just startup costs, doing some marketing. I will tell you kind of the cool thing that I always tell the agents now is when I started in this business 30-something years ago, I was young and had no money. I had to get really creative. I was doing flyers and Word documents. The average sales price that I was selling back then was probably between $85,000 and $100,000. And in my first couple years, I made 6 figures. I had to get really creative. It wasn't easy. It was a lot of work. And if I had half the tools, the free tools that we have now, just in social media alone, I could have been dangerous.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm like, I think they need to embrace the things that are free or very inexpensive. And the reality is, is when they first get their license, they are gonna be bombarded with every company and that's out there trying to sell them leads, trying to sell them this, trying to do, you know, all of these things. So I think, you know, possibly I'll kind of segue into this and maybe this is a further question and I don't mean to steal your thunder, but when you're interviewing a brokerage is making sure the tools that they have to offer, which could eliminate some of those startup expenses for you as well. But those are some of the, did I miss any that you can think of?

No, I think you hit 'em all. And the other thing, I think to your point though, Becky, when you get bombarded with all of these things, No, you don't know if you need them. You don't know what you need right now. So don't, because that's the other thing I think that happens is everybody comes out to pick a brand new agent's pocket, and that's how you drain that, that emergency account you had for the 6 months down real quick, buying this, buying that. You know, it's like that, that Jack and the Beanstalk situation. They're selling you magic beans. You know, yeah. The thing about that I tell agents all the time is, When somebody comes at you with a product or a service to sell you, if it actually worked as well as they say it worked, why would they give it to you even for any amount of money? Why would they sell it to you? They would just take it themselves and make money themselves with it.

Yes.

Why would they give it to you? And I think that's the biggest thing. But that's the other thing that drains agents is they come into this business, they spend, you know, $2,000, $3,000 getting themselves up and running, and then they go spend another $2,000 or $3,000 on magic beans from these, from these companies. And then quickly they're like, well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm almost to the point where I'm broke and I'm gonna, you know, lose my car. And here we are.

And you want to be careful. They want to be careful that they don't, they don't spend a tremendous amount of money in the early months of their career or even the early years of their career. And, uh, they also, um, you know, like, let's say they got a $15,000 check. They had a nice closing, got a $15,000 check. Well, that's not an invitation to go out and buy a bunch of things. Because the next 2 months you may make zero. That means you've averaged $5,000 a month for those 3 months. You did—

you need—

you got to take your taxes out. So take 22 to 25% out for taxes and put it aside. And hopefully they're paying quarterly taxes. Or Becky, like you said earlier, uh, somebody at the end of the year said, hey, I didn't make this kind of money. I mean, it could be a shocker. And me, myself, I pay quarterly taxes because, you know, I don't want to have a problem.

Right.

Uh, you know, I, I like making sure my taxes are paid.

Well, let's talk, let's talk about that real quick. If you're in this industry, one of the first things you do need to go do is get a CPA.

Yes.

Get a CPA. I know you've, you filed W-2s on TurboTax your entire life. You do not need to do that anymore.

Nope. You're operating a business.

You're operating a business. You need a CPA, like, immediately. And then people are like, well, I don't— I haven't even made any money. Yes, but they can also help you save money because they can tell you what to, you know, take off, and these are business expenses and all these other things. So that's a huge thing for sure.

All right, my next topic, you're both gonna love it. I'm just gonna say one thing: your friends and family may not use you.

No, no, they won't. In fact, it's okay. It's perfectly fine. In fact, those— I think, I, I mean, I'm going to speak for myself here. You guys can tell me whether you agree or not. Those are the worst deals to do in this business ever.

Absolutely.

The worst deals to do in this business ever, because they expect everything for nothing.

Would you agree?

Yeah.

Would you agree that somebody getting in this business is assuming that everybody they know is going to use them?

1,000%.

Yes.

1,000%. That all my friends and family are going to use me as their realtor. And no, they're not. They're not. In fact, not only are they not, but you don't necessarily want them. You really don't. Because, you know, the only time— the only time a friend or family member has called me for real estate is to get them out of a problem that they got into by using another broker.

I was just gonna say the same thing. I've had that happen many times.

Hey, I'm under contract with this, and then I'm like, "Yep, yep." In fact, it gets even worse because my wife's a teacher, and so all of her teacher friends, because she's taught at the same school for 23 years, they all know that I'm a realtor. They all know that I work for Remax. They all know that I've done this for 25 years. They only talk to her when. As to put it politely, the human fecal matter has contacted the rotary oscillator. Okay. And when it hits the fan, they call me. In fact, the last one I dealt with was selling house under contract, sales happening in 10 days. They're trying to rent a new place, but they have 2 pit bulls. What do we do? And I said, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you to do. Your listing agent should have had that conversation with you prior to Putting your house on the market. Well, can they get out of the contract? No. No. Well, can you talk to them? No.

Yeah. And I'm not involved in the contract. I don't know exactly what it says. I mean, there could be— you're only getting what your portion, your side of it. I don't know what the contract says. I don't know what you agreed upon. And I'm putting myself liable for a situation of inserting myself into a transaction that I'm not a party to.

So 100%. And that's what you're going to deal with, with family member and friends, you know, and you're going to deal with, you know, I had a deal one time where a friend of mine bought an investment property from a builder, happened to buy it in '07 and closed on it in the beginning of '08. And then his mother-in-law was going to move into it, but then she fell in love with the Gordon Fisherman and didn't move down here from New Jersey. Oh my God, I've got to sell it, right? I must have did open houses every weekend on that thing for like 3 months, both days, 5 hours a day, open houses, because the builder was still building in there. And at the end of the day, I made my my check, and literally his comment was, "Well, we see somebody made money in this deal." No, the amount of hours I put in to sell your house. Yeah, I made McDonald's money. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Sometimes it's sometimes it's way less than minimum wage.

Yeah.

If you calculate the hours, correct.

And then I had to give to my broker and and everything else. It was. It was nothing.

And let's talk about the— yeah, Chad. Yeah, I love what you're— where you're going with this. All right, because the assumption in the public is that we make a ton of money, but what they don't realize is— I mean, yesterday at 7:30 in the morning, I'm talking to a customer. They called me up. I, I've had people call me 2 o'clock in the morning, foreigners. I've gotten phone calls with people screaming at me 11 o'clock at night. My wife's like, who was that? So yeah, you're absolutely right.

If you, if you actually break down the hours that you work, the amount of time that you work to get a transaction from first meeting the consumer to the end of the road, it's, you know, depending on the, on the, on the size of the deal, you're not making that much money. And then there's other deals where you just, you make barely anything at all. So it balances out. Yes, but at the end of the day, it's not a I'm gonna close one deal and then I'm gonna go buy my Ferrari. Right? And I know that's what the public thinks. I I know they do. And and the thing about it is, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of expand on that real quick. That is our fault as an industry. Yes, 100%, because we we think that our our idea of consumer. Care is not letting the consumer ever see the waves on the top of the ocean. We want to keep everything under the COVID here of all the bad stuff that goes on so they don't know there's any trouble, instead of telling them we're out here slaying dragons for them and let them know, look, it's— everything's fine, you're gonna get your house, but here's the— here's the 3 bears and 2 dragons I had to fight for you today.

Yes, yes.

And we don't do a good job of that. And, and again, they also don't tell agents about that in real estate school. I mean, you have to have a degree in marketing, psychology, you know, I mean, everything to do this job.

That's a great segue into my next topic. And, uh, you know, there's a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that we will share with the client and a lot of things that we don't share with the client because there's no need to. But it's an emotional roller coaster. You know, clients will ghost you, they lie to you. They don't do what they're going to say. They don't give you the accurate information. All of a sudden, a $150,000 tax lien pops up when they do a title search. So if we could, Shadd, I'll start with you. Could you talk a little bit about the emotional roller coaster that we're going to go through in this industry?

Yeah, it's ugly. You know, you're going to start off in this industry and you're going to do well, and then you're going to get punched in the face. And I tell people that all the time. You're going to— your business is going to be working out, and then you're going to get punched in the face. And the question is, what do you do when you get punched in the face? Do you stand back up or do you lay down? And 87% of people lay down because that's how many people get out of this industry. But yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna find out that, you know, oh, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that I've got, you know, I, I haven't paid my child support in 10 years and there's a lien on me. And, and, and yeah, it's, it's amazing how much stuff you find out during this business that literally can derail the deal. And then you have to keep the whole thing together. Yeah. And it's— and again, it's— you have to be a strategist. You have to be a negotiator. You have to be, you know, you have to deal with the other party. And, you know, that's another problem is depending on which side of the transaction you're on, how is that other agent managing his or her side of the transaction? And what are— how— what are they setting expectations with their consumer about? Hey, this is how we're going to do this. This is how this works. You know, I had a— I had one the other day where we did a home inspection and a buyer came back and said, well, now I want a $15,000 price drop and all this fixed. And all the things they quote unquote wanted fixed were improvements to the home. They wanted $10,000 to put in double-pane windows because the house only had single-pane windows. Well, that's called a renovation. You can do that when, when it's your house. And so, and I think that all came down to their agent didn't set the expectations of what these consumers can do and can't do. So you have to get really good at managing people's expectations, managing the other party's expectations. You have to be great at understanding the contract. To what's you know what's allowed and not allowed in those documents that you're going to be dealing with. Not that you want to start by using that contract as a club over somebody's head, but you want to use it as the basis for the conversation. Well, the contract actually states you can not you cannot do this in line XXX. But what are we trying to accomplish?

Right.

Because consensus and compromise is how deals. Make it to the end.

Yes.

You know, I I had a talk with an attorney probably about three weeks ago who said that he hates real estate because it's a zero-sum game, meaning that one person has to win and the other party has to lose for it. I'm like, no, no, no.

I don't agree with that.

I I I told him, I said, "You're out of your mind." I said, "Being an attorney is a zero-sum game." I said, "Not our industry." He said, "We can't. Those deals blow up and don't go anywhere." Yeah.

Okay, Becky, do you have anything you'd like to add about the emotional aspect or emotional roller coaster that we have to deal with?

Oh yeah, and I use this line with a lot of my agents a lot of times. I mean, this can be emotional on both sides. Number one, from a buyer or seller's perspective, you know, they're selling maybe for a reason, or they're buying. This is one of their biggest investments. So it does become very emotional from the consumer standpoint. It's also emotional on the agent standpoint. You know, they get emotionally involved In the transaction, which it's their livelihood, and I can understand that. But at the end of the day, this is business, and you need to take the emotion out of it. You need to stick with the facts. You need to stick with, you know, what we can do to fix it. The reality is, is everything is negotiable as long as you have 2 parties that are willing to negotiate. So as bizarre as some of the requests may be, don't take it personal. Don't take it— don't take offense to it. It's your job to relay the information. and work the transaction so it works out best at the end of the day and everyone's happy. So, you know, sometimes the agents get even more emotionally involved if this one's hanging on by a thread and it's the only one they have, which kind of leads us to our point of making sure you have that sphere of influence and you have that book of business. And if this one falls apart, that's okay because there's 4 more right behind it kind of thing. So, um, Mm-hmm. it, it, it can be a very emotional business. And I, I use that line more times than I can count is I tell the agents, Okay, stop, because they call me, you know, take the emotion out of it, take a deep breath, let me see what the contract says, and let's work our— let's, let's get this taken care of and, and fix it.

So, well, to your point, let me take this to the next level.

Oh, good, Chad, good.

I think Becky hit on something really great. I think over half the time it's the 2 agents getting emotionally nailed with each other, and it really isn't even the, the 2 counterparties.

It's the agents who are, you know, I've seen it where the agents are killing the deal because they're freaking out and it's like, no, you need to be the voice of reason and the calm one in the situation.

But sometimes they're their own worst enemy.

Oh, for sure.

100%.

Let me take this to the next level now. Uh, yeah, I'm talking about the emotions and all. Uh, we don't have a 9 to 5 job. No, our job's 7 days a week. I think the only day of the year I do not get a phone call is Christmas. Every other day of the year, I get phone calls, and I'm okay with that. However, they need to realize you're going to work nights, weekends, holidays, and some of the topics that both of you are bringing up with emotions and problems—that might be eight o'clock at night. It's not; it's gonna; it's not gonna be during the day. At nighttime, all of a sudden, you get that phone call, and the deal's falling apart. You don't know what to do. You'd rather spend time with your family, but you got. You got one of those oh my God moments. So, Chad, if you could cover that a little bit.

Yeah, I, I think it's, it's really interesting. And again, it goes back to the emotion piece of it, is a lot of people don't work this as a business. Most of the calls, at least I've— in my experience that I've gotten at 8 o'clock at night, are problems we can't even solve because they involve other trades that aren't open and other things that aren't even going on. The, the lender's not open at 8 o'clock at night. The title company's not open at 8 o'clock at night. And I think part of that comes down to just completely poor time management is they, they want to all of a sudden handle this problem that came up and it's, you know, everything's on fire when it really isn't. And I think that's just, it's one of the things you have to be ready for. But if you're not ready to get out of that 9 to 5 headset of I work from 9 to 5 and that's all I do. Then this isn't the business for you, and it's not the business for you at any level. Because you know all three of us, you know brokers, we have you know dozens of people that that come to us with their issues. I mean, it's imagine having ten deals that you do over the course of a year as an agent. Imagine having the responsibility of ten fifteen agents that have those ten fifteen deals, right? All three of us answer questions all the time, and I think most of it is. You just have to be okay with it, and you have to basically be able to put that time management in and realize you don't have a contemporary job, you know. I mean, the biggest joke is, the biggest joke is if you want your business to skyrocket, try to take a vacation, right?

Yes. Oh yeah, that's what I tell agents all the time. My business is slow. Plan to go on vacation. They're like, what? I don't have any money. Find it.

Find it. Plan to go, you know. Yeah, try to go out of town. Try to put your phone down.

All right, we just have a few more.

A little bit, Steve, if I could add on to it. It's like, you know, the agents— I mean, as though obviously we don't have a 9-to-5 job, but also the agents need to set those boundaries. They are allowed to have a life. They are allowed to spend time with their family. And the customers tend to think that they are their only customer. And, you know, we want them to feel that way. We want them to feel that, you know, we have their back and they're important to us too. But the agents also need to make sure that they set those boundaries. You know, sometimes things can't be avoided and there are after-hours calls late at night, early in the morning, whatever the case may be. But I mean, you learn the customer's personality. I had a gentleman, he was an investor, he owned a restaurant. So 3:30, 4 o'clock in the morning, he was up and he thought everybody else was up too. So he would think he should call them. And, you know, a few times I have, you know, elderly parents. So of course I had my phone next to me and answering the phone because obviously I'm thinking the worst when a call comes in at that hour. And he's calling me just to chat, you know, and I'm like, and in the beginning when I first started to work with him and I'm like, okay, you know, again, I'm young, I'm hungry, I need this business, I'm answering the phone. But then it became repetitious and then he thought I was, you know, he was okay to call me at that time, you know. So don't answer your phone at 4 o'clock in the morning. Don't answer your call at 11 o'clock at night because the reality is, is mostly there's nothing that can be done until 8:30, 9 o'clock in the morning when everybody opens anyway. That's right.

You know, and I think, I think even to a greater point of that, when you're actually starting that relationship with that consumer, setting those expectations. Oh yeah. This is, this is my role. This is your role. This is what I expect from you. This is what you can expect from me.

Very important.

And setting that right then and there. And then the other thing too is being okay if you truly want those boundaries in your life, being okay with the fact that that might turn this customer off. They might not want to work with you because you're not available at 7 PM on a Sunday. And being okay with that.

And sometimes, you know what? Yeah, maybe you don't want to work with them anyway if they think, you know, I mean, so there's, you know, that's probably another topic we can talk about too.

But, um, sure.

Well, if I could, if I could add to that, if you call somebody, I don't know who, whatever industry you can pick on, any industry, if you call an individual sole proprietor and they always answer their phone and you hear something going on in the background, Are they sitting home? They're not busy. I want to deal with busy people, people that are making it happen, movers and shakers. That's, that's what I want to deal with.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I don't, I don't disagree. But I think it just goes down to you absolutely do teach people how to treat you.

Yes, absolutely. Yep. All right, I'm gonna— we're gonna, we're gonna finish up here in just a few moments. Um, I want to kind of COVID the fact that The first year is going to be the hardest year in a realtor's career. And, uh, of course they need thick skin. Mm-hmm. If you don't have thick skin, this is not the industry for you. Becky, you wanna start with that one?

Oh, for sure. I mean, there's gonna be times where people aren't gonna work with you maybe because you're new or, you know, this deal isn't going to go through, or you may be getting screamed at because the seller doesn't wanna reduce his price and it's been on the market for 6 months and it's not selling. I mean, You're going to be getting a lot of different situations. And the cool thing about this business is every day is not the same. I mean, I've heard so many stories and I have agents going, doesn't this surprise you? And the reality is, no, nothing surprises me anymore.

Yeah.

It just might be something new that I haven't heard in the past. But I mean, there's so many different moving parts to this and different situations that occur that necessarily may not even be in your control. But will certainly be directed to you and be, you know, like it's your fault or you're expected to fix it.

We could have a segment in the future about different stories of things that have happened, and it probably would last a week long.

Probably.

Okay.

I think the point is nothing is personal. This is a business. Yes. Okay. It is not personal. If you start taking it personally, then don't get into this business.

Because it kind of gets back to the whole emotional side of things.

Yeah, it's just not, it's not, it's not personal. Yes. Well, well, they called me this. Yes. Are you that? Then what do you care? Stop. And so I think that's the biggest problem is that people, you know, don't treat this like a business. They don't work it like a business person. And because there's so much emotion in what we do, it does blur the line sometimes. But You have to be the person who acts professionally and acts like a business and just tries to solve the problem. Because if not, then you're just going to muddy the water and, you know, you're going to get into a yelling match. It's not productive. And here you are. So, yeah. Okay. Well, I think it's nuts.

But yeah, I think at this point we're going to end today's segment. And I want to thank both Shadd and Becky for participating.

Thank you.

This was fun. I enjoyed talking about these topics.

Thanks, sir.

Again, this is our pilot program, uh, for the Brokers Uncensored, uh, Real Estate Reality, and we hope to see you next time. Again, comment, uh, and give us some feedback.