In this interview, Jefferson Fisher outlines practical ways to interact with people who display narcissistic traits, especially when ongoing communication is required (e.g., co‑parents, coworkers). He first frames the interaction as a "praise‑or‑provoke" game: the narcissist seeks either admiration or a reaction, and both give them a sense of control. Fisher advises stepping out of the game by creating emotional distance—delaying replies, refusing rapid‑fire texting, and using short, neutral responses (e.g., "noted," "got it"). He stresses that lengthy, emotionally charged messages only give the narcissist material to twist. When dealing with loved ones who are frequently grumpy or intense, Fisher recommends being a safe space: allow them to express feelings without judgment and avoid assuming their mood. For rude or harsh messages, he suggests the "Did you mean?" technique to pause escalation and invite clarification. Underpinning all advice is an assumption of good intent and a curious, patient stance, recognizing that many reactions stem from deeper insecurities. Fisher concludes with a reminder to stay confident, connected, and in control of one’s own communication style.
Chapters
How do you deal with a narcissistic personality style? Somebody that is always about them. I'm thinking about a number of friends that are divorced and have an ex that they share kids with, and you're getting the long texts and a lot of make wrong. And how do you deal with somebody that is, first of all, never going to change. And second, you have to figure out how to navigate communication with them because of the kids or because you work for this person.
There's an initial mindset you need to have, and that is know when you're in their game. It's a game of either praise or provoke. If you're not filling them with praise then they will turn to provoke and start an argument because it gives them the same amount of satisfaction. They delight in your anger as much as they delight in your praise. It is that sense of control that they have. So know first when you are on the board and you are playing their game.
Okay.
So number one is you don't have to play that game.
Okay.
You do that by, two, adding as much distance as you can. Don't feel like you need to have this rapid-fire text exchange. They text, respond the next day. You need to wait. Most people, maybe they need to be reminded there's not some kind of stop clock on text exchanges of you required to respond. There's no delay of game. You get to choose when you respond, and you're going to do it when, when you're ready. I will respond to you when I've calmed down. I'll respond when I'm ready. You find ways to distance the emotional reaction that you could have. You also want to stay neutral, and that means you say very boring things like, I understand, noted, good to know, got it. These short little things that are going to give them nothing to feed on. Because if you think you're going to solve all your problems in giving them that paragraph of a text, and you think you really just gave them 100 words of pure amazingness that's going to shut them down and change your life, you're kidding yourself. Because what they'll do is just pick out one word from that paragraph and twist it and not acknowledge anything that you said. So less is always better when it comes to communicating with those type of behaviors and tendencies.
Wow. How do you broach with somebody who you care about who's like in a bad mood or they're really intense and they're that way a lot? Because I've tried to and it feels like poking a grizzly. Like, are you upset about something? Or, you know, like, is there like—
why? Like, well, I don't think there's a better way to approach the 'are you thinking about something?' It's this idea that whatever they say, you need to be a safe space for. Because I always want to be the person that my kids can come to with problems. And if I teach them that when you come to me and you're hurting or you're in a bad mood and you're grumpy and I don't like that and I don't accept that and I don't want that, when you're in trouble, don't come to me, they're just— you're not a safe space for that. They'll go be real somewhere else. I can be grumpy. I mean, I can be in a bad mood. And so often you have to remember that when you're talking to somebody that's a spouse or a kid and they are grumpy and you poke that bear, they should be in the safest space of their life to be able to tell you, the person who loves them, how they're feeling genuinely, authentically. If it's somebody who you don't know that well, you probably don't want to ask that question, but you might want to say, how are you feeling? But I'd be careful on the assuming that they're feeling a certain way. Now, if we want to tweak this and say, what if somebody sends you something that's rude, like a rude comment that you read, an email, and it's rude, the kind of thing that you're like, I can't believe this, can you believe that somebody would send this? Hey, so-and-so, come here, look at this, you see what they read? Can you believe that? Um, It's the, did you mean? Did you mean to sound rude? Did you mean for that to sound disrespectful? The did you mean is always a great tweak, and you can use that as well.
Did you mean?
Did you mean? Did you mean for that to sound so harsh?
Did you mean to teach us all how to be better communicators?
Yes, I did. Yeah, I did. But it really does help anytime you find something that we use this a lot. Is that, did you mean for that to sound short? You get that text, you know, I do that even with my dad, 'cause my dad's like the one-word texter. Classic, yeah. So I have to say, did you mean for that to sound short? There's some people that you just shouldn't text with or email, just pick 'em up and call 'em. There's people that you're like, oh, they send the rudest email, but when you talk on the phone, they're so pleasant. You just know that's not their best mode of communication.
How is it that you learned to assume good intent about people?
Can't believe it. There's a sense that goes to who you are and just your philosophy on life. And I believe that, that most people are, are good. They want to do good. And there are people in this world that are, are truly hurting, and they came in hurting long before they met me. And so there are certain things that I know I could say that could be a trigger for somebody that I know nothing about, and I don't know why it's a trigger. I don't know their childhood. I don't know that one thing that they're insecure about. You ever said something and you said something about their job, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, well, you think your job's better than mine? What you're hearing is just insecurity. It's— that's, that's what you're hearing. So you have to find the way. My dad would tell me, the issue that they're giving you is not the real issue, meaning there's always something that's layered underneath that, and you just have to be curious enough and patient enough to find out.
What are your parting words?
Hmm, I'm going to tell people that when you— the next time you are in a difficult conversation with people, number one, I want you to say what you have to say with control. It means you're going to control your breath, control your volume, control your body, and understand you don't have to say anything that you don't want to say. Two, I want them to say and speak with confidence. It means using an assertive voice that doesn't give over-apologies that mean nothing or say, "I hate to bother you," when it means nothing at all. And three, I want them to say things to connect. In other words, say what you mean and mean what you say. If you need to deliver bad news, deliver it. If you need to give a compliment, give it. And at the end of the day, they need to follow their heart and be true. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here, and I'll meet you there.
