In this podcast excerpt, Jefferson Fisher shares a step‑by‑step framework for handling people who complain. He argues that the first goal is to let the complainer fully vent, using the prompt “what else?” to surface hidden drivers such as fatigue, hunger, or unmet basic needs. Once the complaint has been exhausted, Fisher shifts the conversation toward solutions by asking the speaker to suggest the next step and by invoking a “dual‑voice” question – “what’s the other part of you say?” – to bring out the positive perspective that co‑exists with the negative one. He emphasizes self‑awareness, encouraging listeners to label their own emotions in real time with the phrase “I can tell …” and to notice bodily signals (neck tension, jaw clenching, foot movement) that signal rising defensiveness. Fisher also references wearable metrics (WHOOP, Oura) as external cues of physiological readiness. Throughout, he frames these techniques as practical, low‑effort tools that transform a complaining loop into a productive dialogue, reducing emotional reactivity for both parties.
Chapters
When somebody is complaining, you want them to stop. The trick is to make them keep going. Because if you haven't heard the end of it, you haven't heard all of it. Meaning that there's a source of it that they haven't told you. You're only hearing the symptoms of it. Think of a— so I have a 7-year-old and a 5-year-old. My daughter can complain about the food, about what she's wearing. She doesn't want to do this, she doesn't want to do that, and she starts to whine. It's not about the food. It's not about what's going on. It's that she's tired. It's just like at your base need. Some people, we know this, me included, everybody, all of a sudden you feel grumpy, you feel irritable. You're just hungry. So there's always like this spot that the issue that you're voicing is rarely the issue. So when somebody is complaining to you, it's what I like to say is, what else? There's one phrase that I like to use is, what else? Because they will find something else, but then they kind of run out of steam. And then you transfer it, once you feel like they're out of steam, because that's the, you gotta let 'em out. You have to let 'em get it all out or they're not gonna listen to you, period. And so as soon as they get it all out, it's this idea of, what do you think we should do? As soon as you try to like start getting them to think of solutions, but make it to where they're the ones, that are proposing the solutions. If you were to ask, well, what do you think the next step is? Or my favorite is, what's the other part of you say? What's the other part of you say? Because we all have two different parts. There's a part who believes in it and the part who wants to complain, the part who wants to be positive and the part that wants to be negative. And so what you're just hearing is the negative part. And when they kind of get it all out, and then once you feel like they're at a good Pausing position. You say, what's the other part of you say? And they'll go, well, I mean, you know, he probably didn't do that on purpose. I mean, and if I were him— and then all of a sudden the dynamic changes because you heard the negative. The positive's still there. There's always— is you just have to ask, what's the other part of you say?
Interesting. What about— does that work always? Like, you know, how do you ever get in a complaining loop yourself where you find yourself kind of repeating about the same thing that's happening in the world? I think we all know somebody who does that. And at some point, I'm not so sure that it's not that we don't know the issue, it's just that we get habitually complaining. So is that just me being impatient? Are we just being impatient that we're not asking what else, what else, what else? And if we kept asking, then you might actually be able to break the habit loop? Or is there a habitual thing that just sometimes, even if you get to the root, you can't solve it?
For me, I'm quick to acknowledge when I'm grumpy. I'm quick to acknowledge when I'm tired. Like basic human emotions. Most of the time when you're in that continuous complaining loop, there's a basic emotion, a primal feeling that you have not acknowledged in that moment of I'm irritable, I'm grumpy. I don't like, you know what, I didn't like how I looked in the mirror this morning. And so all of a sudden I'm just gonna, that's gonna color my day. Day. My hair's not doing how I want it to go. I don't like it. So it's just, you've already decided before that day started, you don't really like that day. So I, um, I used to wear this— I still have it. Whoop is a band. And so it would have this green, red, yellow on it. And I got to where if for some reason it was yellow, I was gonna have a yellow day. And if it was red, my day was already terrible. And that was first thing in the morning. I was like, well, it's gonna be a terrible day anyway, I'm red. I felt like I was back in grade school when you had to pick your color from the chart. And so if it wasn't gonna be a green day, well then was it gonna be a good day? And that was me, that's nothing on Moob. And so it was kind of that idea where, okay, how do you get out of this continual complaining? It's usually from an unrecognized basic need of hunger, attention, You're thirsty, something that's very, very basic that you just haven't given attention to.
Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I felt the same thing. I have an Oura Ring, and at first I would feel the same way, but then my husband and I started acknowledging it, and we would make a joke. We'd be like, well, I was at 50% last night in sleep, so I'm broken, barely going to make it, probably not going to last the rest of the day. And you kind of acknowledge that. If instead you can acknowledge that part of you that's not happy about what's happening by making a little joke. It helps me for some reason.
Well, the reason why— yeah, I think that's perfect— is because that means you have a lot of self-awareness. Whenever you can use the phrase—
Chris, that— yeah, we'll tell my husband.
Yeah, for life. Is I use the phrase, I can tell. So before you begin your sentence, begin with, I can tell. Let's say you and I are together and we just get home and you want to tell something to me, I just had a long day, and the last thing I want to do after kids are in bed, dinner's done, is handle this problem that you've been waiting on the whole day to tell me. And because that happens, I'm sure, with you and your husband. You wait till the— it's— you haven't seen him all day, and then when he's dead tired or you're dead tired, he brings something up. And this is the worst time to do it. He's waited until you have 10% left for 100% of a conversation. And that's a bad recipe. When you can just say, I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation, like, that is immense self-awareness, more powerful than you realize. Than if you go, okay, I guess we're doing this, all right, and then you just get grumpy, then the outcome is hardly ever productive. But when you're able to say, I can tell that's making me defensive. I can tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell I'm getting upset. I can tell I'm getting annoyed. I can tell I'm getting frustrated. I mean, it's whatever emotion you're feeling. If you can label it with the "I can tell" and you're getting it out, then you're not acting on it. There's a difference between you saying something and me acting defensive. That's not true. I didn't say that. What do you— that's acting defensive. That's becoming the feeling versus you saying it and me going, I can tell I'm getting defensive. Like, that is far more powerful than actually working it out.
And is that sort of how you— is that how you manipulate emotional responsiveness so that you're not the one that's always sort of being ping-ponged emotionally? Is awareness and then a statement about awareness?
Yes, because as long as you are— the first is to recognize that feeling. That sounds a little woo-woo, but it's, it's More important. Yeah, come on. Yeah, we're on theme. Um, it's, uh, we call it granola. So is— if you're feeling that in yourself, I mean, you know when you're getting upset. I know when I can feel it in my, in my neck and my ears that I'm getting tensed up. But if you can label it and put it out loud, it's— it helps because then the other person isn't guessing. So you're gonna have a more productive conversation when you're able to get that feeling out loud. It's labeling the emotion is not that difficult. The people that feel like they don't have time for it are the people that also don't have time for productive conversation.
That's a good line and also hard. Yeah, we had a therapist for a while that did that. There was some fancy name that I can't remember, but something along the lines of there was like this wheel. Have you seen it with all the different emotions?
There's a lot of wheels.
This is why I'm in finance. I want a spreadsheet. Anyway, the wheel, it was so like if you're struggling, you're you're starting to get activated, you're upset with your spouse, she would make us pause and then say, what do you feel in your body right now? And at first I was like, oh my God, this does feel super, ooh, this is so annoying. And then she would have us name it. So she'd be like, my neck starts to get tightened and I crack my neck when I'm doing this. I start to move my feet around, I might crack my knuckles and that's my little sign of I'm starting to get.
You do that.
Yeah, I might do that. My husband will clench his jaw when he's starting to feel that way. And she's like, and that is your notice that you're starting to get in flight or fight. And so because of that, then I can go, ah, sorry, I'm gonna get up and pace around for a second 'cause for some reason I'm starting to get agitated. So that's really interesting. But I've never then said that word where I own it.
Yeah, when you claim it, you control it. As opposed to like, you are making me internalizing it and saying you caused me. I mean, it's— there's nothing— the feeling, the feeling is natural. Everybody just feels it. You can't— I can't— you could hit me and it hurts. I can't stop that. But if you decide that you are that emotion, well, then you act on that emotion. But if you get it out, in other words, I say it out loud, it helps you. Now you have that emotion that we've put it on the table. Hey, that topic, and see right there, that makes me angry. And so, and that's saying that this is making me angry. I'm not saying you are making me angry. I can say this topic, this conversation, this issue, that statement, and I'm detaching the personalization from it, which means I'm not trying to attack you and say you're not making me. So you can't make me feel anything. But if I can say it out loud when you claim it, You control it. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here, and I'll meet you there.
