How to have HARD CONVERSATIONS with employees. My 6 STEP FORMULA
In this instructional video, the speaker (a CEO of three companies generating nearly $100 million) argues that mastering hard conversations is the most valuable skill for any leader. He first normalizes the emotional difficulty of such talks, emphasizing that they are not innate but can be trained like a muscle. He distinguishes short‑term discomfort (hurt feelings, anxiety) from long‑term dysfunction (poor performance, cultural decay) and notes that the majority of hard conversations involve intangible behavioral issues rather than clear KPI shortfalls. The core of the content is a two‑part framework. Part 1, the “6 E’s,” outlines how to open a conversation: Establish tone, Eliminate assumptions, Explain the goal, Explain the problem origin, Emphasize the impact, and Estimate severity (often on a 1‑10 scale). Part 2, the “4 A’s,” guides the post‑opening dialogue: Ask for the other person’s perspective, Advise next steps, Agree on a cadence and action plan, and Assure them of where they stand. Throughout, the speaker provides practical language examples, timing cues, and advice on handling defensive versus coachable responses. He concludes with three preparation tactics: (1) pause and let emotions settle before the talk, (2) write and rehearse a script using the 6 E/4 A structure, and (3) record the conversation for post‑mortem feedback. The video ends with a call to action for viewers to adopt the framework, treat hard conversations as “conversation debt,” and subscribe for more content.
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Tim Ferriss once said that, I think it was something to the extent of, the gap between where you are and where you want to be in your business is the amount of hard conversations you're willing to have. And so that is why this video is about hard conversations. I believe that it is probably the number one skill that anyone can have as a CEO or as a business owner or even as an executive or an operator of a company. And I also believe that it is the most valuable skill that I have currently. And so this is the first of many videos that I want to make on having hard conversations because it is the thing that is most asked of me and is actually right now in the position I'm in in the company where I still add the most value is being able to have those tactful hard conversations with people. What I want to start off by saying is that this is a complete— like, this is a skill. This is not something that you were born with. Nobody is naturally good at having hard conversations. Every single person feels like they're going to poop themselves when they feel like they have to have a hard conversation. That is naturally how people feel. Some people just started really early, maybe in childhood. Some people started when they were a teenager. Some people have never had them and now they have a business and they have to. That's the first thing I want to say is that it is not something that comes natural. In fact, I can tell you the first time I had to have a hard conversation was when I had to fire somebody who was actually my friend. Having that conversation, I remember building up to it. One, I almost threw up. Two, it was like my throat was constricted, my hands were swelling, my body was just going crazy. And then after I had the hard conversation, I bawled my eyes out. And so I don't know if I'm supposed to say that or not, but it's the truth. Like, I felt terrible. And I think I did really well in the conversation, but it just was like almost an emotional release after. Like, there was so much tension built up and I really wanted to do a good job. And so I just want to start off by saying it's completely normal and expected. It is expected that you feel crappy about having them. Most people have trouble sleeping the night before that, before they have a hard conversation. Like, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have it. It means that you should just get better at it. And over time it gets less and less. And like, and then eventually one day you only get anxious like 5 minutes before the conversation. It is a muscle. You can practice it. It is a skill. It doesn't matter what kind of personality you are— introvert, extrovert, you know, ENFJ, whatever. Like, I don't care. It doesn't matter what your DISC is. Like, you can get good at this. I just want to embed that in you because I was not somebody who was good at having confrontational conversations. 5 years later, it is my most valuable skill set for this company. So that's the first thing I wanted to say. The second thing to start before I go into the framework for this is that you have to understand that there's a difference between short-term discomfort and long-term harm. What a lot of people correlate having a hard conversation with is hurting someone's feelings, hurting someone in some way. They're going to react adversely. And the irony to this is that yes, most people do. Most humans react in a way that is uncontrolled when news that they are not aware of is brought to them. However, in the long term, if you avoid the conversation, you create long-term dysfunction, whether it's in the role, in the company, across departments. So that's why it's very important to delineate against this. It is totally fine to have short-term discomfort, meaning you've kind of hurt someone's feelings, they feel kind of shitty, they seem down. You know, those might be short-term side effects. To avoid the long-term dysfunction of having someone who is incompetent in their role, having people who don't work well together, having a cultural disconnect. Okay? That's the first piece. Now, before I go into the framework, what I want to explain is that once you understand those pieces and you're like, cool, so it's not natural to have hard conversations and it's important to have them because if I don't, it'll create long-term dysfunction in my company. You have to understand that before you go into the framework I'm about to teach you, you have to identify the problem. And so a lot of people have difficulty doing this because The problems that are often hardest to talk about are the problems that are not black and white and they're not easy to objectively put onto paper. Meaning they're usually emotional problems. They're usually that someone's acting a certain way, they're behaving a certain way. It doesn't have to do so much with, hey, you've missed X amount of weeks of sales, right? That's an easier conversation typically to have. Maybe it's not for you, maybe you're in the beginning, but typically that becomes easier. It's like, this is the KPI, you're not meeting the KPI. It's like it's on paper, right? You're like, I don't know what to say. I hired you for that. You had to hit those KPIs. You're not doing it. It's kind of is what it is, right? It's easy to see on both sides versus having a conversation about someone's attitude, how they talk to other people, how they dress at work, their behavior around others, how they work as a team player. That kind of stuff is because it's more intangible. It seems like more people avoid those conversations. And what I want to explain is that 90% of the hard conversations are about that stuff. It's about the messy stuff. And so you have to get good at talking about that stuff because the performance pieces are almost like icing on the cake. Like you get— if you can do these, you can definitely do that. But I want to go into is the framework that I've put together to go over these conversations and have them effectively. And the reason that it's going to be like a little longer than I would have wanted to because, you know, people only watch X amount on YouTube, but it is very necessary because these conversations, like I said, it's the most valuable skill set I bring to my company, right? My 3 companies doing almost $100 million. And it is the most valuable skill. And so this is the first of many videos, but it is the framework that I use. And this is the most concise I can get this framework. So here we go. Part 1, we've got the 6 E's. Okay, what I want to explain is Part 1 is the first part of the conversation before you let the other person speak. Part 2 is after you open it up for them to speak. Okay, so this is how you're going to start off the conversation. The first thing you're going to do is establish tone. Okay, and when I say establish tone, what I mean is how you essentially break the ice in the conversation. Okay, so when you go into that call or you step into that meeting, what's the first thing that you say? Do you ask them about their weekend? Maybe if it's not a very serious conversation, you have time to ask them about their weekend. It's not something that they need to take incredibly seriously, and maybe it's not out of the blue, like you just have to remind them to be on time to something, right? That would be a less serious conversation. So you might start off something like, Hey, I've got a couple of things I want to talk to you about today, but I just want to know, like, how was your weekend? How are the kids? How's Mary doing? Right? You can just like start it off like a little more casual versus if it's a serious conversation, you might start it off like, hey, I've got something kind of serious I need to talk to you about today. And so I don't really have time to go over some of the items we normally would in this call. And so we're just going to get straight to it. And then they're like, oh, and they're listening to you now. They're like really listening. The second thing you're going to do is eliminate assumptions. Okay? And I don't mean just bad assumptions. I mean any kind of assumption. So say the conversation is one where you are 99% sure they're going to take the conversation very well and that it's not a huge issue. It's just something you need to point out, right? It's like once they are aware, you are sure they will change their behavior. You might start off with something like, hey, I just want to tell you, like, I don't know if I, you know, I feel like I don't need to say this, but I'm going to say it anyways, which is like, your job's on the line. I'm not firing you today. I just have a few things where I feel like you need to improve and I want to explain those to you today. That's it. Versus if it is a serious conversation and you do feel like their job is on the line, you're going to start off and say, hey, I have to tell you, this is a really serious conversation we're about to have. Your job is actually on the line. And so I really need you to pay attention today. Eliminate the assumptions. There's no assumption. They now understand. Ironically, this actually makes people feel better because they like predictability. They don't want to hear because they're just waiting, especially if it's a hard conversation, for the ball to drop. Like, are they going to fire me? Like, it could come at any point in the conversation. And if you just eliminate and address, is that happening or not, it completely, like, allows them to listen and be present in the conversation. The third piece is you're going to explain the goal, right? And so it's like, listen, the goal of this conversation is that when we come out, we're on the same page about what I expect out of a leader on this team, especially in your position, and that we have a plan to that we can hold each other accountable to, to make sure that you can improve from here on out. Or it could be like, hey, the goal of this conversation is that you understand how serious of a problem this is and that I don't have to have this conversation with you again because it is that serious. Different goals. Fourth piece is explain the problem origin, right? Because people always want to know when there's an issue, where did it come from? Oftentimes people have a difficult time explaining this because it will come from a gut feeling. Like, if you're an intuitive leader and you really understand your people and you know them well, often you're gonna like wake up in the middle of the night and like have a feeling, or like think about it when you're going to bed, or like you're with your wife on a date and you're like, why am I thinking about this mopo, right? And that's where it comes from. So oftentimes I've had them where I'm like, hey, actually I woke up at 3 AM last night and I was thinking about you. And so I was like, yeah, I need to have this conversation. It's definitely something that's on my mind. Or it might be, hey, I got feedback from multiple people on the team that I really need to talk to you about because I see a trend. Fifth piece is you're going to emphasize the impact. So say the problem is that you have negative feedback from their team about how they feel like they're being micromanaged. I would say, as you can see, this is a problem because the kind of leadership that we expect in this company based on our core tenets is one that doesn't micromanage. We like to encourage autonomy on the team. And so them feeling this way puts them at risk of leaving. So we're actually at risk of your whole team saying, see ya, because they don't like you as a leader. And that's why this is an important thing for us to discuss. Discuss. And then the last piece is you want to estimate the severity. Okay. And so what I like to tell people at the end is I'm like, listen, I would say like on a scale of 1 to 10, like 1 is like, you know, you're late on a meeting or you're clearly slacking somebody on a meeting versus 10 being like, you're like really on the cutting edge and you're very close to being fired. We're at like a 2 right now. It's very bothersome and it's annoying, but I really feel like we can fix it like that. Versus I might be like, listen, I have to be honest with you. This is like flashing red, 8 out of 10. We need to fix this today. Okay, so once you've done this, you've established the tone, you've eliminated the assumption, explained the goal, explain the problem origin, emphasize the impact, estimate the severity, you're going to go into part 2, which is the 4 A's. Okay, first thing you're going to do, this is where the break in the conversation happens. You're going to ask, you'll be like, I'd love to know your thoughts on everything I just told you. Or you can say, You know, I just like to ask, what do you think of everything I just said? And that's when you're going to see if that person goes into defense mode or if they go into coachability mode, as I like to call it, which is essentially, are they like— coachability is like, oh crap, like, I totally didn't know I was doing that. Or like, I feel like I was doing a bad job there and I totally know I was dropping the ball, but I was just like kind of waiting for you to point it out. Or like, I don't know how to fix it versus I don't agree with you. I don't think you're right. I think I'm right. There's all these reasons why I'm doing this that you should hear. Right? Lots of excuses. And so that's where the conversation a lot of times can be spent in this ask, because you need to listen to them, okay? And now you don't want to let someone go off on a tangent or emotionally— like, I don't know how to put this— like vomit on you. I don't allow that. I'm like, I'm not going to allow you to emotionally vomit on me. We're trying to have a productive conversation, right? Because some people try and do that. But this might take anywhere from 10 to 25 minutes depending on how the person response to what you've just said. All right. So once you've asked them for their insight and what they think, then you're going to advise them on what to do next. You're going to say basically like, this is what I think you should do to resolve the issue. Right? And if somebody was very receptive, and this is something that you also spend a decent amount of time on because they're going to ask a lot of questions. They're gonna be like, okay, cool. Like, how do you think I can make it right with so-and-so? And like, what, how do I have that conversation, et cetera, et cetera. Versus, um, If it's somebody who's very defensive, they might just be completely silent and just nod, which is often what I've noticed happens. The third piece of this is agree upon your cadence going forward and the plan of action. Okay? So what I mean is that after you've gone through this, you've suggested what they need to do, then you're going to say, "Cool. All right. So you're going to blank, blank, and blank. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to check in with you twice a week instead of once every other week for the next—" 6 weeks until we feel like you've, you know, moved past this problem. Does that sound good? Cool. So we agree upon the plan of action and the cadence that we have to have going forward because the biggest place that you play as a leader in making this, making sure this doesn't happen again, is in holding them accountable to what they've said they're going to do and the plan of action and constantly letting them know in faster increments if they're doing better or if they're not. And then the last piece of that is you're going to assure them of where they stand, right? And so I'm always going to wrap up the conversation kind of with the same tone I started it with. It could be like, "Hey, I'm really glad you took it well. Great conversation. I don't think we need to talk about this again, so we actually don't need to set a plan going forward because it seems pretty quick. I appreciate you being really open-minded to this." Or it might be, "Hey, unfortunately this conversation did not go as I expected. You were much more defensive than I had hoped. And so because of that, we are going to have multiple more conversations about this." Until this is resolved, your job is at threat. That's it. Right? And so if you follow this framework, I promise you the conversation will be much more productive and it will be clear, meaning the person who you are having it with understands where they stand by the end of it. Right? All of this is to provide clarity. What I would say is that if, if this makes you feel anxious having these conversations, and if right now, if you're thinking about all the conversations that you need to have, Maybe you've kind of backlogged it. You've got like conversation debt, which is pretty typical in business owners, is that you kind of realize you watch a video like this and you're like, crap, I have like 4 conversations I need to have. There's 3 things I would suggest that you do. Okay. One is if you are nervous about this and you have a lot of heightened emotions around a conversation, the first thing I would say is before you go into it, put some time between thinking about it and doing it, meaning lengthen the amount of time before you have the conversation. That's not usually something I would suggest, but if you're really emotional, like, it doesn't matter how well you structure this, if you go into it very angry, frustrated, or anxious, they will feel that and it will just deter you from making any progress from the conversation. The second thing I would say is that you should write down what you're going to say using that framework before you say it, right? So I would say, like, rewind this video, write down those A's, and then, like, right underneath of them, what you're going to do in accordance with those, and then rehearse it. Right? And the reason it's so important to rehearse something like this is because communication is the only reason most businesses don't grow. And that is my true belief. And most people don't take the time to be that thoughtful in their communication, which is why their businesses don't get as big as they want them to, or they get really big and then they crash because there was no infrastructure built on trust. And so I would highly suggest that you write it down and you rehearse it ahead of time, especially because if you do rehearse it ahead of time, you're in a non-emotional state, and that can then carry over to when you are a little bit more heightened and you're talking to that person. So hopefully you can remain a little more steady. The third thing I would suggest is that you record the conversation. Okay? And so this is my favorite piece of it because I ask people to do this a lot in our company, and then I'm like, "Cool, send it to me after. I'll give you feedback." Right? But I do this with myself too. And here's the reason. It's like watching game tape review. Like if you've heard— there's a book. What was it? Tim Grover, maybe? He talked about like J.Lo and Michael Jordan. After every game, whether they won or lost, they watched the game tape because they wanted to see like, if I won, why did I win? If I lost, why did I lose? And so a lot of people will watch content before they post it or after they post it, right? Or they'll watch a speech after they give a speech. The same goes with having a hard conversation. If you want to get better at this, which I would suggest anyone who owns a business should or operates and manages people, then it is really important that you actually watch it and then Give yourself feedback. You could also send it to a colleague or to a friend who you think is good at this to give their feedback as well. I hope this framework was useful. It took me a long time to really think like, what do I actually do to have these conversations and to put it into writing? Take it, go back, screenshot the video, print it out maybe, and use it for the next time that you have to have one. And so if you liked this, I am gonna make a good amount more conversation videos because I think that it's a skill that most people don't put enough time into and it yields a much higher ROI for leaders than anyone would expect. So go ahead, hit the subscribe. I will see you on the next one.
