How to Shut Down Sarcasm & Backhanded Comments Without Causing a Scene | Jefferson Fisher

It's pretty incredible, isn't it? The things that some people are willing to say out loud. In those moments where you're taken aback and caught off guard, do you say something? Do you not say something? What do you do? In today's episode, it's all about how to handle inappropriate questions and comments. The next time that someone asks you an inappropriate question or makes an inappropriate comment, here's what I want you to do. Number 1, say Nothing. Just add 5 seconds of silence. This is a tip that I use all the time and recommend because it truly does work. About 5 seconds of silence, and you have to pair it with your face. All right? You don't have to say anything but the look. And you know what kind of look I'm talking about? That look that says, "I know you didn't just ask me what I think you asked me." Most of the time, that's all you have to do. Number 2, if you need to be a little bit more direct, I'm going to encourage you to use phrases that aren't going to get the other person defensive. Phrases like, "What's your intent?" As in, "What's your intent on asking?" Or, "What makes you want to know?" These are questions that, though direct, aren't going to make the situation worse. And number 3, if you can, depending on the person, just kind of play it off. These are friendly ways to say things lighthearted, such as, "Yeah, I like to keep a little mystery," or, "That's between me and myself." Something that keeps the mood lighthearted, a little bit friendly, and lets them know You're not going to give that kind of information. Now listen, everybody is guilty of asking or making an inappropriate comment or question. Everybody. It's just called putting your foot in your mouth, where you didn't really mean to say that out loud and you can't believe you said that. You just go, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just said that. And you wish you could put it back in, but you can't unring that bell. So I want to clarify that those who make inappropriate comments and questions, it doesn't make them a bad person. Now, there are some that are bad, of course, but it doesn't mean that if you make the inappropriate question, that's exactly who that person is. Sometimes it's just an off day. Sometimes they can't believe that they just asked that, and they need you in many ways to show them that what they just did is not acceptable. Some people don't mean it to be inappropriate, right? You've asked that question or said something that it just came off the wrong way. What makes it inappropriate? A lot of different things, a lot of different contexts. But often some people just might ask a question and realize, oh wait, I shouldn't have asked that. Well, I shouldn't have. I totally made a mistake there. It doesn't mean that it's necessarily inappropriate, just means they asked the wrong question at the wrong time and said it the wrong way. So it might not be inappropriate to ask, but it might be inappropriate in terms of the overall context. So Anytime you feel that, I want, I want to make sure that I emphasize it's a case-by-case basis, and you're going to have to base it on who you're talking to, what you know about that person, what the context is, what the circumstances are. So don't assume that just because they asked it, it makes them a good or bad person. If there's one thing that I pray that you've learned from me, if you've listened to any of my podcasts or watch any of my content, it's that silence is truly powerful tool that you can use to apply with just about anything. When somebody's making a comment that is inappropriate or asking that question, using silence as your answer is a way to set your feet in the conversation and saying no. Okay, it's a way of almost putting up the hand, and it's just— it's— you're not having to do anything. Understand that just because they ask that question, it is solely within your power to decide if you say anything at all. Hear me again, it is solely within your power when somebody asks the inappropriate question for you to have any response whatsoever. Understand you can have nothing, you can say nothing, you can walk away, you could just ignore it. And that is solely within your power, and there's nothing wrong with that depending on what they ask. Silence is a way to allow them to hear what they said back, for them to go, "Oh, that didn't sound good at all." What I like to do and encourage when somebody's making inappropriate question or comment is to give them a face. Not like a stank face, not like an angry face. I'm just saying, look, I look like, "Did you really just ask me that? Did you really just say that?" This face that says, "Do I really have to comment on that?" Or maybe even stronger, "This is not something I'm going to comment on." When you pair with that nonverbal communication, you say all that you need to say without saying a single word. All right? So anytime that you feel that that tension, the biggest takeaway that I want you to have is you're under no obligation to say a thing. So often we feel like just because somebody asks us something, we have to have an answer. We have to have a response. Typically, when somebody says something inappropriate, we kind of— in the South, we say hem and haw. You kind of just go, "I mean, well, I mean," and you feel like you have to have some kind of answer because they asked. When it's inappropriate, there's no obligation. There's nothing polite of rule that you need to follow. It's just simply staying within your own power and your needs and your own mental health of saying, you know what, no, that's not something I'm going to respond to. Now, if you need to be a little bit more direct, then I'm going to encourage you to ask a question back to them. So often you're not giving them the answer that they want. You're asking a question that serves as a second mirror in a way to see what are they getting What are they getting at here? What's the point? So you ask the question, "What's your intent?" Meaning, what's your intent on asking that? Usually if I ask that question, somebody says something, an inappropriate question, I might ask, "What was your intent? What's your intent with that?" They often will say, "Oh, well, I mean..." And they'll try and find an intent if they have one. Or, "What makes you want to know?" What makes you want to know? Often when you ask those kind of questions, being very direct about it, you're going to find they don't really have a reason. They don't have a true reason in wanting to know that information. They just want to know, or they felt like they ought to have it and ask something, and so they feel like just because they asked, they're going to get it. They're going to realize that's, that's just not the case. Or What also happens is, because I make mistakes, you make mistakes, we all make mistakes, is that when you ask that question, what makes you want to know? What makes you ask? It's not why, right? I'm not saying the word why, which makes them defensive, like, why do you want to know? Instead of it's what, what makes you ask? Using what doesn't get people nearly as defensive. So if I say, what makes you ask? They might have a reason that I go, "Oh, it wasn't inappropriate at all. I just heard it wrong. I misinterpreted what they were wanting." Often that happens to everybody where you assume one thing because we like to assume the worst. We're humans. And what they meant to ask was something completely innocent. We just heard it wrong. So when you serve a question that is a mirror, like, "What's your intent in asking?" or "What makes you ask?" and you find out, oh, they actually have a good reason, oh, they actually have a good intent in asking, it's not inappropriate at all, then it's a way of not taking it personally, right? You're giving them grace in that moment, and you're also giving grace to yourself of saying, oh man, I got this all wrong. Yeah, of course I'll answer that question. So glad that you asked. So often it works both ways where you're not just assuming the worst out of everybody. Instead, you're asking this question that is going to be both a buffer for the other person as well as yourself. And so let's say that you gave that 5 seconds of silence and then you followed up with a question of, "What makes you ask?" And they have an okay answer, but not something that you still really want to share. What I like to recommend is give a little bit of lightheartedness into your response. Reason being, at that point, I don't feel like they've done enough depending on what they've said for me to use my words to shut the door in their face, which we will talk about should you need that. But I lighthearted in terms of, well, I like to keep a little mystery, or that's between me and myself, or the one I like to use is, that one's for me, that one's for me. In other words, I'm saying, hey, you know a lot about me most likely, uh, the fact that we're talking together, you, you might know some things about me, or you think you know, but That one, that particular element that you're asking, that one's for me. I'm keeping that one to myself. You don't, you don't get that one. That's what I'm sending with that message. So understand, if you need to, just go back and say, well, that one's for me, that one's for me. I— you're not going to share it, you don't need to share it, and you're letting them know that what they asked is not something that is for them to find out. Now, my favorite part of the podcast, and this is where I get to answer a question from a follower. If you're part of my newsletter where I send out one communication tip once a week right to your inbox. I'm able to respond to people and they're able to ask me questions. And here on the podcast, I have been doing this since I started, and I pull a question from someone given the topic that I'm going to be talking about that, that given week. This one is from Rachel. Rachel is in Brazil. Rachel says, Jefferson, love your information. Thank you so much. I find it so useful. Thanks, Rachel. I have a problem. There is somebody that I work with who likes to ask me inappropriate questions. This is a supervisor. I never know really what to do. I typically try to just laugh it off, but I'd like to have an actual response. Any help would be appreciated. Rachel, I totally understand what you're going through. Most of the time these kind of situations come up at work, right, where you, where you're not really family, but yet you're together all the time, so people feel like they can ask certain things or say certain things that they otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable about should y'all just be regular strangers on the street. So in that kind of situation, this is what I'd recommend to you, Rachel. Try a little bit of silence, and instead of this laughing nervousness, channel that into a response. If silence feels uncomfortable to you, or you feel like that's going to put you in a position that makes it feel more awkward, which is not a bad thing, by the way, channel that into a response of, what makes you ask? All right, and don't take away that nervous energy and channel that into a response. When you start speaking, a lot of that nervous energy tends to flow out because you're breathing it out. All right, so when that happens, just, what makes you ask? What makes you ask? And if this person, let's say the supervisor is just tending to press a little bit more, make you feel uncomfortable in that way, then use words of preference and past. This is what I mean by that. When you say words that show that you have a history of doing things, it doesn't make it nearly as awkward because it's not as brunt with somebody for them to be— is brunt even a word? I feel like it should be. Maybe blunt, maybe brash. I mean, in that work environment, you don't want to sound like you're going to turn them off. I mean, they're probably— you're probably good friends with this person, or you work with this person. You want to have a good relationship, so you don't want to just, you know, kick them in the teeth with your words. But when you use phrases like, well, I prefer to, or I typically, or most of the time, or in the past, Anytime you can indicate that you have a history of doing certain things a certain way, then that other person feels like this is just part of your manual. This is how you operate. I'm not singled out. So if they ask you an inappropriate question, let's say a guy asks, just for some dumb reason, asks what your pant size is, okay, or what shoe size, or whatever it is, or your weight, or anything. Often you can say, "I prefer not to share that," instead of, "That's private," right? And instead of having this snappy response where somebody goes, "Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry," when you can use phrases that say, "I prefer not to share that," or, "I typically don't talk about my appearance," any way to show that you have a history of doing things, whether it's typically in the past, the way I prefer to do something, the way I typically do something, it allows you and the other person to have a much more smoother interaction because they don't feel like they're singled out. It makes them feel like, oh, this is just how you respond. This is part of your manual. This is part of the instructions that if I want to talk to you, this is not something that you share. So it's not that I'm the big bad person who asks this bad question. It is that this is information that you just categorically don't share. Often that's going to go a whole lot better in that kind of situation. Now, Rachel, if they ask you a question that is just totally below the belt, it is not something that they should ever come out of their mouth, and you need to be a lot more strong with it, then channel that nervous energy into absolute seriousness that says, "That is not an appropriate question." "That is not an appropriate question." Here you are labeling what they just asked. Simple as that. That is not an appropriate question. Cool. So when you hear that, most likely they're going to hear that and it's going to channel to them, oh, I'm so sorry. They ought to be apologizing. If they're not, well, then I encourage you to find some other ways to report that kind of behavior because that's unacceptable. All right, Rachel, wish you the best. Today we're talking about how to sound more assertive, that feeling of being honest and direct, but at the same time, Respecting the other person. What does it sound like and how can you do it right away? When you need to sound more assertive, here's what I want you to do. Number 1, stop over-apologizing. This is where you say, I'm sorry, so sorry, in every single sentence. I know it's a tick. I know it's a habit, but you gotta stop, and I'm gonna explain why. Number 2, stop undervaluing what you have to say. That's when you downgrade your comment before you even get it out. Again, this is hurting your confidence and we're going to dive into it. And number 3, get comfortable with the word no. Get comfortable disappointing people. No is a complete sentence. I want you to think back to a conversation where you wish you would have sounded a little bit more assertive. Maybe it was at home with a partner or a spouse. Maybe it was at work with a coworker or a boss. A time where you wanted to be honest. You wanted to be direct., but you just couldn't find the words. Think back to that conversation in your mind and wonder, what could I have said differently? And here's what I need to tell you right out of the gate. If you don't find your assertive voice, you will be walked over. It will affect your confidence and it will affect the trajectory of your life. It sounds harsh, but it's, it's very true. Now, in my life, where I found that I struggle with assertiveness the most was anytime I was new somewhere, maybe it was a new school or a new law firm, and I felt like I was crawling into it. I found myself being deferential to anybody and everything, even at the sake of my own well-being and my own boundaries. But what do you do? You're new. You feel like you have to do it. Well, that's not exactly true. When you find that assertive voice and you're able to say what you want to say and do it respectfully,, it will change your life. And I mean for the better, because people will take notice. Your reputation will change, your credibility will change, and man, that's the good stuff. So I'm gonna throw out some scenarios to you and you let me know if any of them ring a bell. You walk in 1 minute late to a meeting and the first thing outta your mouth is, hey, so sorry I'm late, when you throw all of your stuff down. Or it took you 2 days to respond to somebody's email and the first word in your response back is, so sorry. So sorry, I just saw this. Sorry, I am just now getting back to you. Or you're trying to get somebody's attention and the first thing out of your mouth is, so sorry. Hey, so sorry, 2 seconds. Hey, so sorry, I just need to talk to you for a second. You gotta stop. Listen to me. You have to stop. Those aren't apologies. And if they are, well, then you're just apologizing for all the wrong things. You're apologizing for your existence. You're apologizing for your time and you're apologizing for your priorities. These aren't real apologies. All right. You're finding ways to feel like you're an inconvenience to someone. But let me tell you, your, your, your worth is far more than just trying to feel that you're not an inconvenience to someone, that you always have to prove that you're not an inconvenience. So we're going to fix that. And the way to do it is instead of saying, I'm sorry, you're going to say thank you. All right. It's as simple as that. Instead of saying, I'm sorry, we're going to use words of gratitude like I appreciate or thank you. So if you come in walking into that meeting and you're 30 seconds late, you're 1 minute late, nobody is expecting an apology for that. Now, if you're 5 minutes late, I think it's absolutely the right thing to apologize because at that point you're wasting their time. But if you're just a few minutes late, if you're barely over the line, it's okay to say, thank you for your patience. Thanks for waiting on me. I appreciate your time. That is assertive. Or if it's in the context of you sending an email to somebody, instead of feeling like you need to say, "Hey, so sorry, I'm just getting back to this." Just respond, "I appreciate your time. Thanks for your understanding. Thank you for your patience." These are all things that they're going to say, "Oh yeah, well, you're welcome. I do have patience. I do have understanding." Instead of you going, "Hey, so sorry." This less making you feel less in that way. It's instead you're being assertive with it. You're standing in your presence and saying, "Yeah, I had other things to do." I appreciate your patience though. In the context of the conversation of telling someone, hey, so sorry, can I have 5 seconds? You just erase it. Or you say, hey, when you get a moment, I'd appreciate some of your time. Or I'd appreciate some of your time when you get a moment. When you use words of gratitude, it is a cycle of saying I am showing gratitude for your time. At the same time, they are appreciating your presence in the conversation. Rather than you always apologizing for it. Now, a separate but related topic to over-apologizing is number 2, downplaying your words. Here you are cutting down what you have to say before you even get it out. And you know what these sound like. For example, I hate to bother you, but— I mean, this might be a dumb question, but— you know probably better than me, but— these are all ways of chopping down what you have to say before you get it out. And what's worse is it makes it look like you have an insecurity when there may not be one. For example, when you say something like, well, I hate to bother you, but I have this question on X, Y, and Z. Well, before they actually answer the question, you have to have this mini conversation about whether or not what you have to say does or does not bother them. And 9 times out of 10, 99% of the time they're going to say, "Oh, that, that, you're not bothering me. You're fine." And you go, "Oh, you're not? Oh, okay, great." You're inserting something that's totally needless into the conversation. And I know why you're using these phrases. All right? I know why you're using them. And because it, you want to sound deferential. You want to sound like you're coming in from a low angle, a low perspective rather than a high angle as if you already know everything. You expect them to want to talk to you. So when you say, "I'm sorry to bother you," you're trying to sound less harsh in the conversation, but you don't sound that way. It makes you sound like you don't believe in what you're saying. So the key to getting rid of downplaying your words is just not to do it. You erase these phrases from your conversation, or what I like to do, and I recommend, is that you add on to it. So for example, in The scenarios where you say, hey, this might be a dumb question, but— or this might be a stupid question. Instead, say, hey, can I build onto that? Or, hey, can I take that further? Or, hey, there's something I'd like to add to that. When you add to conversations rather than shying away and taking away from them, it makes you sound far more assertive. And there's something else I want you to understand about no. Number 3 is no is a complete sentence. And here's what I mean by that. Stop feeling like you have to overexplain or justify every action or inaction that you take. When you say no, period, and leave it at that. Somebody asks you a question and you say, no, no, instead of overexplaining and saying, well, no, because, well, you know, I had that thing and yeah, I got the dog and we got this and we got that. All of a sudden you sound less assertive and you water it down. No is all you have to say. So the key here is to stop adding because to the end of no, because it'll add more words to it. And the more words you add, the more it sounds like you're needing to explain and to justify when often the only word that you need to sound assertive is no. Now we're at the part where I am going to read an email from a follower. If you are not part of my newsletter, I send out one email per week It's a communication tip right to your inbox, totally for free. And for those who respond and have questions about things, I'm able to answer them. And so a lot of fun. This one comes from Daniel over in Canada. Daniel says, hey Jefferson, I love your comments, your content. Thanks, Daniel. I find myself over-apologizing constantly in my communication. I know I'm not supposed to do that, but what are some practical ways I can help remind myself in the moment? I got it, Daniel. Well, it's a little hard because it's my understanding. I've never been there, but people apologize a lot in Canada. Sorry. And I might be wrong, but I think it's a cultural thing too. So it's not all your fault. But if you want a very practical way to stop apologizing when you don't need to, I have a little tip you can use. Now, this might be a dad joke thing. I fully admit that now that I'm about to say it, but it works. Every time you're about to say, "Hey, so sorry," or "I'm sorry," when you don't need it, tell yourself in your head and catch yourself, "I'm not sorry. I'm Daniel. I'm not sorry. I'm Daniel." It's a reminder of who you are in that conversation. You're not who your apology is. You are who your existence is. You lean into that. So I am not here to talk about my apologies. I'm here to talk about who I am and what I need and how I need to assert my needs into this conversation. And it's a very quick way that you can do that. And I hope it helps. Look, it was just a joke. Okay? Don't take it so personally. Don't be so sensitive. Little comments like these slowly tear down your self-esteem. And on top of that, they're frustrating. So today we're going to talk about how to handle them. So these are what I call dismissive comments in that they are dismissing your feelings, trying to dismiss any consequence of what they said. And in many ways, I want you to see these comments as them trying to control the eventual outcome. Imagine somebody, imagine me just punching you in the arm and you go, "Ow." I go, "That didn't hurt." You ever had that happen? Maybe as a kid growing up, or you have a sibling. I know I'm the oldest of 4, and that definitely happened when you're roughhousing, you're wrestling, you do something, you go, "That didn't hurt." And they go, "What do you mean that didn't hurt?" So I want you to imagine that in your mind, that somebody's hit you in the arm, and then they tell you, "That didn't hurt," as if they get to decide that, "Yeah, I hit you in the arm, but it didn't hurt, so no harm, no foul," right? You are the one that gets to decide that. And we're going to talk about these techniques on each one of these. And I want you to emphasize the idea that they don't get to say the outcome. They don't get to say the consequence. You do. They don't get to say what hurts. You do. Right? You with me? All right, let's go. So first up is, I was just joking. I was just joking. It's just a joke. I hear that all the time. I know that you do too. When you get that dismissive comment back to you on something, "I was just joking," here's what I want you to do. Play off of this. If they want to make it a joke, then it better be funny. So what I like to say is, if somebody tells you, "I was just joking," you respond, "Then make it funnier. Then make it funnier." Easy as that. That's number 1. Number 2, you could easily say, "Then work on your material." or find new material. How about that? Then find new material. In other words, don't be making a joke about me. Don't be making a joke about something else. If they try to say something that is hurtful to you, let's say they made a comment about your looks or your weight or your age or whatever it is, and then you kind of take offense to that and they go, "Hey, it was just a joke, okay?" As if all of a sudden they've taken away any stinger that they have. When they make that kind of stuff, you say, Well, then find new material. Or was that supposed to be of the funny kind? Was that supposed to be funny? It was just a joke. Then be funnier. Then find new content. Then find new material. Any way that you can play off the word of a joke, it's going to work to your advantage. My favorite is then be funnier because it is a reminder right there in that moment of if you wanted this to be a joke, That's not what it is. This— you can't just tailor a dismissive comment that's meant to be hurtful to me and just call it a joke and make sure everything is— then we're all good. Then we're all good. No, no harm, no foul, like I talked about. When that kind of stuff happens, easily twist it back on them as, was that supposed to be funny, or was that the funny kind of joke? Whenever you can ask those kind of things and put them on their heels to say, that's, that's not going to pass with me. Number 2, one of my least favorite, is don't take it personally. Hey, don't take it personally. Like, come on, then don't say it personally. What do you mean don't take it personally? You just said it to my face. How can it not be any more personal? It is to me one of the just a total withdrawal of all accountability of any ability to say, look, that was on me. You know what? I shouldn't have said that instead of this, don't take it personally. I can't stand that comment. Here is some things that I like to use, and I know you can use them too. I get to decide that. I love that one because it is very immediate and clear where the boundaries are. Somebody says something to you and then they go, don't take it personally. You respond, I get to decide that. It's the whole thing of hitting you in the arm kind of concept of, look, I get to decide to take it personally or not. Don't tell me how to take something. If you're going to send the paper airplane, I have a choice of how I'm going to catch it or if I let it fall. If you're going to throw the ball at me, I get to choose whether I want to catch it or I don't. It's all within my choice. So Having that idea of, "I get to decide that," puts you in the control seat every single time. Another that I like to use with "don't take it personally" is, "Don't say it personally." Don't say it personally, or then say it differently. That one is a comeback that you can use with all kinds of different dismissive comments. But I like that specifically with "don't take it personally" because of it sounds like alliteration in a way. We say personally, differently. They both have the adverb -ly in them, and I feel that they, um, they're great at— it's a great little comeback to say, look, if you don't want me to take it personally, then say it differently. Say it again. Say it a different way. It's a very strong, straight-up front to say, look, if you don't want me to take something personally, then try again. Take it— say it differently. Okay, number 3 is don't be so sensitive. You heard that one? I know I have. Don't be so sensitive. And to be honest, I've definitely been one that said that too, and it wasn't fair. Say, don't be so sensitive. It is this idea that you go, look, don't— can you just let things go for a bit? I just said something, all right? Do you have to turn everything into a fight? You have to do this. There is a toxic element of that type of dialogue because, yes, you want to control the reaction. That's understandable, but that is just part of the battle. That means you're not doing the work up front to think about the consequence of what you're saying or to think about how your words sound. You just expect them to go how you want them to go. You want everybody to react how you expect them to react in your head, and that's not fair. So when you say the phrase, "Don't be so sensitive," understand everybody is sensitive. Everybody is sensitive. It just depends on the topic. It depends on the context. It depends on the environment. So it's subjective to everybody. So let that be what it's going to be. But when they say, "Don't be so sensitive," one thing that you can do that I love to do is play off the word "sense." S-E-N-S-E. Say, sense. So they say, don't be so sensitive. No, I'm sensing X, Y, and Z. So if somebody were to say, hey, look, it's just a joke. Don't be so sensitive. You can reply, no, I'm just sensing you're not that funny. You see what I mean? If somebody were to say an inappropriate comment, and they go, look, don't, like I just said it, don't be so sensitive. You can reply, no, I'm just sensing that You and I have a different idea of what's appropriate to say out loud. You feel the difference? Here you're not getting upset. You're not getting defensive. You are playing off of their words. Oh, don't be sensitive. No, I'm sensing. I'm sensing X, Y, and Z. And that's going to put you in a much better position to stay steady rather than a weaker position. And the key to each one of these replies that I'm suggesting for you to try is that you cannot let yourself become defensive. I know that's easier said than done, but I want you to play it out. If you were to automatically— somebody says, don't be so sensitive, and you're like, sensitive? I'm not sensitive. What are you talking about? That's getting defensive. And all of a sudden you sound weaker and they sound stronger. Let me put it differently. They sound right and you sound wrong. You hear it? If you were to say, I'm not sensitive, what are you talking about? Me? I'm not sensitive. They sound stronger. You sound weaker. Instead, when you can stay exactly where you are and say, no, I'm just sensing that you and I have a different idea of what's okay to say to each other. Oof. I mean, that is, that is a verbal punch. I mean, that, that is such a stronger position to keep. In that instance. So anytime that somebody says, "Don't take it personally," and you scoff at that, you get upset at that, you look weaker. If they were to say, "Don't be so sensitive," if they were to say anything else that is a dismissive comment, like, "It was just a joke," and you— "A joke?" And you start to get— you swell up about it and get defensive and start putting up your walls, The more it looks like you are exactly what they say you are, the more it looks like you're more sensitive, the more it looks like you're taking it literally, that you are everything that they say. So you have to make sure that you keep your breath calm, right? And I want you to stay exactly where you are. Try your best to not get defensive. It will really, really make a difference. On today's episode, it is all about what to say when someone belittles you, when they try to say something to put you down, to hurt you, what do you say and how do you make sure that your own integrity stays intact? When somebody is belittling you, the first thing that I want you to do is number 1, make them say it again. That's right. I want you to make them say it again. That means you're going to tell them, "I need you to say that again. I need you to repeat that." When you make them say it again, they don't get that hit of dopamine. That they're looking for. When somebody is belittling you to put you down, they're looking for that spike to get them going, to have that feeling of control. We're not going to give them that. So we're going to talk about those strategies. Number 2, if they belittle you and you ask them to say it again, then you're going to give them questions of intent. Questions of intent. Those are questions that ask them to have them search into the intent of why they're asking or why they're saying what they're saying. For example, "Did you intend to embarrass me? Did you want that to hurt me?" Again, we are withholding that hit of dopamine. And number 3, if they have responses, are they going to keep on going? If they're not a person that you feel safe around, number 3, you just say nothing at all. You let your silence be your response, because often when you say nothing at all, it's the most powerful move you can make. So one time I had a case, this was probably about 2 years ago, and I am training a client. And by the way, I train almost every client that I have in conflict advice, how to communicate in conflict, how to say things in a way that's going to protect them. Because when they go, when I present them for cross-examination at trial or deposition, in many ways I'm handing them off for somebody else to try to hurt their credibility, for somebody else to attack them. Those are the opposing attorneys. It just comes part of the job. And what I did with this particular person was train her on when somebody belittles you. If the other side, which I knew the other attorney was, he was very critical. He was somebody that was, you know, those type of people that just love to throw bombs in conversations just to aggravate you. It was very much like that. He was, I knew he was going to want to say something to upset her. He was going to try to say something to cause a reaction. And so what I trained her in is making sure that she gets him to repeat whatever he said that was ugly in some way. And she seemed to understand it. We kind of practiced it a few times, but then, then on the day of the deposition, she made me so proud. So other attorney was asking her questions and he made a snide little comment. Most people in that situation, when somebody gives you a belittling comment, you want to take it, right? You want to take off with it and challenge them and start getting ugly with them. She didn't do that. Instead, what she did was she asked him, did you say that to embarrass me? She goes, I'm sorry, did you, did you say that to embarrass me? Without, I mean, just immediately This other attorney goes, "Oh no, no, no. I mean, no, I didn't mean to say that." And he totally backtracked in real time. I mean, I could not, I couldn't have wiped the grin off my face. All she asked was, "Did you intend to embarrass me?" These little tips really, really work. And I want to go back to number 1, and that is you ask them to repeat the belittling thing that they said. I know that sounds counterintuitive. You're going to think, "Jefferson, what are you?" What are you talking about? I'm going to have them repeat the belittling thing? I'm going to make them say it again? I have to hear it twice? Yes. Yes. And let me tell you why. When somebody makes a belittling comment, they are wanting that reaction out of you. All right? They are wanting some kind of response. When they say something to hurt you, you're giving them that reaction by being hurt. By getting upset, by huffing and puffing, throwing something back, by yelling at them. That's what they want. Often when you ask them, "I need you to repeat that. I need you to say that again," they won't do it. They can't do it, or they'll backtrack because they realize, "Oh wait, they're not doing what I want them to do. They're not taking the bait." And so often they can't repeat it that second time, or they'll say it differently than they did. They'll rephrase their words. If by chance that they do say it again, now you know what you're dealing with. And that goes to number 2. You ask questions of intent. And this can be used from the workplace to home to kids who are being bullied in some way. When you ask somebody, did you intend? Did you intend? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Did you intend to hurt me? When you ask those questions, what it does is instead of the spotlight being on you and your behavior and how you're going to respond to that belittling comment, it goes back to them. Now that the spotlight flips, it flips, and they have to ask themselves these questions like a mirror. Why did I, why did I say that? Why did I do that? They're forced to now answer the intent behind, the purpose behind their hurtful words. And so often when that happens, the other person will apologize or rephrase or say, "I didn't mean it that way," or they'll move on. What the biggest key to this is, you're not going anywhere. You're showing that you're standing your ground. You're not saying anything rude. You're not putting your integrity on the line. You're just asking them to see themselves by just saying, "Why did you do this?" Did you intend to hurt me? Did you intend for that to upset me? Because what you're telling them is whatever you meant to do, it's not having that effect. Whatever you meant for that to be, you're not getting it, and they'll backtrack from it. Number 3, if by chance they respond and say, yeah, I didn't mean to hurt you. Yeah, yeah, I didn't mean for that to embarrass you. Understand that's not somebody you want to be around, right? That's not somebody you want in your life. But the best thing that you can do often in those situations is say nothing. Now, I don't mean that to say I'm not equipping you with any tools and just be a, you know, a wallflower or somebody just to be laid over. No, I'm saying is often silence, when you just look at them, it says, I don't have to respond to anything that you said. It's not having that effect. And then their words ring hollow because there's It's just nothing for them to— their words to stick onto. It's just nothing but an echo. And that's how you're going to have something to where you're going to be more powerful every single time. So let's run through a quick example. All right, let's assume maybe you're at work in a team meeting or something, and you make a suggestion and somebody makes a belittling comment. They say, "Nobody asked you," or, "Nobody cares." Have you heard that before? Where somebody says, Did I ask? Or, nobody cares. Nobody asked you. When you hear that, let's go number 1, make them say it again. That means you're going to ask, can you repeat that? Or say that again for me. Say that again for me. They're going to say, nobody asked you. If they actually have the guts to repeat it. Number 2, going to go to a question of intent. Like, do you say that to make me feel less? Do you make— do you say that to make me feel small? Did you intend for that to embarrass me? Did you intend to dismiss my ideas? Do you say that to dismiss my ideas? You see how you're taking what you perceive their action to be doing, and you reflect it back on them like a mirror. Did you intend for that to hurt my feelings? When you say that, they then have the spotlight all on them. They have the floor to either correct the issue, accept the issue and apologize, or double down on it. And whatever they say— now, if they apologize, it's up to you if you want to accept that apology, if it's a genuine apology. But if they double down on it, then don't feel the need to go back at them. Don't feel the need to say anything ugly. You just let it go silent. Because if other people are around, they're going to be paying attention to your integrity. Other people are going to be paying attention to how you're going to respond. And the person who is more emotionally mature every single time is the person who feels like they don't have to respond to disrespect. They don't have to respond to these things that are belittling or beneath them in some way, that you have this threshold of respect before you respond to these kind of things. Here's a hard truth. If you don't advocate for yourself, nobody will. And if you don't assert your needs, let's face it, you will get walked over every single time. At the end of today's episode, you're not going to have to worry about it. We're talking how to stand up for yourself. The first thing to know about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it. Because number 1, not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It is a know your worth mentality. And we're going to talk exactly where you need to go in your mind leading up to these conversations. Number 2, get rid of the verbal disclaimers. These are little statements you say before you say what you need to say, like, hey, I'm sorry, but I just feel like maybe— we're going to talk about getting rid of those and how to do it. Number 3, Stop justifying the nos. Stop having to feel like you need to explain yourself on and on just because you turn somebody down. When you do that, it takes away slowly from your self-confidence, and I don't want to see that. Now, maybe nobody's told you this, but just because somebody has said something does not mean that it requires a response from you. Just because they threw a pitch doesn't mean you have to swing. You just let it go by. There's this idea in our head that because somebody gave us an opinion, we have to give an opinion back. That's just not true. When it comes to standing up for yourself, it is often the person that is not worth your time that you don't need to give attention to. And often that's the exact opposite of what we do. We find ourselves trying to justify and explain to people that do not matter in our life, The people that rank low in our priority list, but yet we feel like we have to prove something to them every single time that we talk. Eliminate that concern. When people play chess, it's expected that you're going to take a pawn. Nobody freaks out about it. Nobody loses their mind when somebody takes a pawn because they know the value is not the pawn. They can take a rook, okay. They want to take a queen, that's different. Understand that there's going to be lots of different conflicts in your, in your life. Lots of different conversations. They are not all the same. The feeling you get by talking with certain people, those friendships, where they rank in relationship to you, they're not all the same. So what I want you to understand is stop attending every argument that you're invited to. Just because somebody gave an opinion and said something to you You had the choice of just letting it go, saying, that does not require any response from me. That is not worth my time. That's why I say it's a know your worth mentality. Before you stand up for yourself and feel like you have to say something, ask the question, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Is this somebody that actually needs part of my energy? Because there is a strength and a wisdom and conserving your energy and protecting your peace. So the next time that happens, I want you to go through that filter and ask yourself, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Because I, I know my worth. And please understand, that goes for anything that they say. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean we're in the business of picking up trash. Let me say that again. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. You can politely tell them where it should go, and it's not going to be on you. So understand that part of protecting your peace is understanding, I know what they're saying is not worth my time. I'm going to take it and set it aside. Personally, what I do in my own life is I have a wastebasket, all right? I have a trash bag right next to me in my mind, and if somebody says something I don't like, Rather than me feeling like I have to throw it back to them, I have to pick up that trash, that gross nasty thing that they said, and give it right back to them. I just take it and move it over and put it in the trash. You can say like at a computer or a laptop, you just get it, you drag it over, and you put it in the recycling bin, and then you delete it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to carry it. So understand, just because they throw out garbage at you does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. When you have to advocate for yourself, part of that mindset is knowing how to go into it. Too often there is a hesitancy to say what you need to say. We treat it like it's a— I don't know, what do they have, like the cold plunge or a pool that's filled with cold water? If you tiptoe into it, It's much worse when you don't say what you need to say right out of the gate, and instead you slowly walk into it with these little disclaimers, what I call them. This sounds like, hey, um, you know, I've just been— I, I just feel like I need to say this, I guess. It's— and maybe I'm talking out of pocket here, but you ever heard that? You ever said that before? When you say, uh, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm, I'm sorry, but, but maybe, you know, I, I'm just feeling more like you are trying to hesitate saying what you need to say. Like, you want to smooth it over. You want to hedge to make sure nobody feels like you're being too direct with it. But when it comes to asserting yourself, when it comes to stating your needs, nobody's gonna do it for you. Remember, you're the one that has to be bold and out in the open with it. So think of it as that cold swimming pool. If you walk right into it it's going to not feel great. It's not going to look smooth. It's not going to feel smooth. You either have two choices. You don't say it at all, or you jump right in. When you see people doing that cold plunge, they don't walk right into it. They don't slowly go into it. They put their whole body into it. So I want you to get used to that idea of, I'm going to put my whole body into this thing. If I have something to say, I'm going to say it. I'm not going to feel like I have to apologize for it. I'm not going to feel like I have to be hesitant and hedge the whole time. If it is something that is on your heart and it is something that is truly asserting your needs in your life, you have one chance, one life, and this is it right here for you to be able to state your piece, assert your needs, and say what you need to say. Now, another part of this is often when it comes to standing up for yourself, it happens in moments where you need to say no. No to something. You need to turn something down. Maybe somebody's invited you to something, you got offered something, and you need to say no, but you don't know how to say it, and you're just not sure you can advocate that you need to say no. Now, we're going to talk later in this podcast about how to say no to certain things, how to decline something and still be respectful, how to disagree and still be respectful about it. In those little bitty specific scenarios. Here, this is the point I'm making of that. There are times when you have to say something and they need to hear you say no. And there's a difference between saying no because after the end of it, using that word because to justify it, and just saying no. For example, let's say you ask me a question and I just said No. None. Versus, "No, because, you know, I have that thing that we talked about and, you know, I gotta make sure that I take care of this and it's just been really busy lately and I've just been so stressed, you know, and so, well, I have that other thing, you know." You see how it's much weaker? All of a sudden I've added 3 more sentences after the "no" and I've slowly watered down the place that I need to assert my needs. If I need to say no to something, I need to say no. So eliminate that habit of always saying no because. It's just no. And if they need to ask other questions, they're free to ask other questions, and you're free to say no again. I want you to feel empowered, all right, on this idea of just because they asked me something does not mean I have to give them something. Just because they told me something does not mean I have to have an answer for something. Standing up for yourself means that you are in complete peace with who you are and your presence in the conversation, and you know your worth wherever you are in that conversation, or if there should be a conversation at all. So when you need to say no to something, step into that. Don't go with these little verbal disclaimers. You say no to it. You don't say because— an add-on, a verbal It's like the opposite of a verbal disclaimer. You add in everything afterwards. "No, because I'm just feeling X, Y, and Z." You don't need that. The word is "no," period. What lots of people like to say, and what I support, is "no" is a complete sentence. You don't like them, and you definitely don't want them, but sometimes no matter what you say, you find yourself getting sucked into them anyway. But with what I'm about to show you today, you're going to handle them like a pro. Today's episode is all about how to handle unwanted conversations. If you want to avoid an unwanted conversation, number 1, don't fight them, because the more that you do, the more you're going to find yourself in one. Instead, just let it go by. You do that by making yourself sound, well, disinteresting. This is what I mean. When somebody's pushing an opinion onto you, any controversial topic, whether it's religion, politics, whatever, they're trying to push something onto you, and you say, "Yeah, I don't know." Simple as that. "Yeah, I don't know." Or, "You know, I'm not sure." "Yeah, I'm not sure about that." You're finding ways to communicate to them of, if you're looking for a fight, you're not going to find one here. Number 2, this one is the easiest, but it's the most critical. You are making them feel heard. It's just simply acknowledging their point, and it's very simple to do. This is what it sounds like. "I agree that's an issue." Period. Somebody's wanting to get all worked up. And they're telling something to you, all you need to respond is, "Yeah, I agree that's an issue. I agree that's an issue." You're not saying whether you agree with it or disagree with it. If anything, they just feel acknowledged and heard, and they say to themselves, "Oh, okay, they understood and heard what I said." And number 3, if you need to be a little bit more direct, you need to tell them that you're not interested in this conversation. If they're not getting the point, Here's the way I suggest to do that. You say, "I typically avoid this topic." The keyword is "typically." "Yeah, I typically avoid this topic," or, "I typically try not to talk about X, Y, and Z." The key here is when you say "typically," you're communicating, "I've had this conversation before. It's not really stimulating to me anymore, so I just avoid this topic altogether." You're not saying that they're wrong. You're not giving them a fight. You're not giving them anything for them to bare their teeth on. You're just simply saying, I tend to avoid this, I typically don't do this. And I'm going to give you a disclaimer on this episode, particularly when it comes to political topics. I'm all in favor of educating yourself and making sure that you know about the issues out there. I think you should absolutely exercise your right to vote, no questions asked. That's a different question on whether or not somebody is allowed to force their opinion onto you and say whether they're right or wrong, or if you're supposed to push your opinion back and always have these discussions where, you know, it's just beating your head against a wall. If this person is open-minded and it's a discussion that you enjoy having, and people have political discussions all the time and there's no issues, but other people, it's not so much about change. They don't care about the change. They care about the competition. It's like a sport to them. It's like arguing over their favorite sports team. Who's going to win? Who's going to lose? Day-to-day, the ultimate consequence of the discussion and who wins makes no bearing, no change on their life. It's just something that they feel like a team on. So they want to have this discussion of intellect to intellect or just issue to issue, and they just want to talk it out. All kinds of different reasons why these kind of topics should or may come up in your life. The key is, how do you balance them? The reason why I have number 1 be to pass it by is because it's that idea of don't attend every argument you're invited to. Just because somebody pushes their opinion onto you to talk about any controversial topic does not mean that it's an invitation for you to mandatorily give your opinion right back. Whenever you decide, you know what, I want to push against you, actually I don't agree with that, You can disagree all you want. Just know you're walking right into the conversation. It's no longer an unwanted conversation. It is a desired conversation now that you're giving your opinion. If you want to avoid these, then you need to just let them pass by. I say disinterested or be disinteresting because in many ways you're taking all the oxygen out of the room and their fire can't burn. They have nothing to get upset about because you're not giving them anything to jump onto. You're finding ways to say, you know what, I don't know about that. You know what, that's a good question. I'm really not sure. I'm not sure. It's not that you're— that you don't have your own opinion. It's not that you're uneducated. It's just you're not in a mood to say, I don't want to get in this conversation right now. And there's nothing wrong with that. When it comes to agreeing with them, understand nobody can make you agree to something you don't want to agree to. Nobody can force you to say something you don't want to say. But it's critical that these kind of people, when they're pushing these unwanted conversations, just feel heard. Often, if they just feel acknowledged in some way, they're going to go away. Not only have you made yourself disinteresting, they know they're not going to get anywhere with this. They know that you're not going to give them that fight and that excitement that they're looking for. They just want to feel acknowledged. So when you can say things like we mentioned in Number 2 of, "I agree, that's an issue. I hear you." Simple as that. "I hear you. I agree, that's an issue. I agree." That's all you have to say. Even if you disagree with them, you're just making them feel heard. But if they continue to push and press on you to make you feel uncomfortable in some certain way, don't hesitate for one second to say, "I prefer," or, "I typically," You're talking about what you do in the past. I prefer not to talk about X, Y, and Z. I typically try to avoid topics about blah, blah, blah. You can make it even situational. I typically avoid topic X at dinner or at home or at work. You make it situational where you are in your environment. Simple as that. And if they continue to press the button, it's absolutely okay to say, I'm not going there, period. I'm not going there. You're saying, I'm not going into this conversation. I've given you plenty of lead-ups. I've given you signs that I'm not interested in this. That, that means I have to be explicit with you. I'm not interested in this conversation. I typically don't enjoy talking about topics of X, Y, and Z. This subject matter isn't for me. That subject isn't for me. You find ways that if they're not going to be taking the signs, be very direct with them to say I have a boundary here. I'm not going to be goaded into this. I'm not going to be led into this conversation. I'm not going there. If there's one thing that I personally struggle with, it's feeling defensive. It's natural, but it's also the number one killer of conversation. If you feel defensive, you shut everybody off. And if they feel defensive, they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say. On today's episode, it's all about how do you handle Defensiveness. If there's one thing about defensiveness, it's that it's so easy to do. It's just biological. It's natural because anything that you perceive as a threat or a challenge, you fight against. It is natural as part of your fight or flight. On any argument that you're going to have, there are two sides. There is an ignition side and a cooling side of it, and that ignition is triggered by things that trigger you. So anytime somebody challenges your opinion or disagrees with you, your body perceives that as a threat. This says, "I don't like that." Somebody gives you an opinion and you disagree, your body says, "I don't like that." Somebody's telling you what to do, your body goes, "I don't really like that." So every time that happens, there is a desire to push back against it. If somebody's telling you, "You need to go do this," you automatically want to go, "No, I don't." If somebody says, "Oh, you're behaving this way last night. You were in a bad mood last night," you automatically want to go, "No, I wasn't. Who are you to tell me how I was or how I'm feeling or what to do?" We preserve that element of autonomy within ourselves. And so anytime you feel defensiveness, it is just so reactionary. And it's nearly impossible to stop from the get-go, but there are some tips and techniques that I'm going to give you to make sure that you know how to handle it in the moment. Number 1, to keep yourself from getting defensive, let their words fall to the ground. This is what I mean. In case you forgot, other people's words are not your responsibility to carry. It's not tennis or volleyball. You don't have to throw anything back. So instead, You're just going to take a breath, imagine that their words fall to the ground, and you get to decide whether to pick them up or just leave them there. And you're going to find more often than not, you just want to leave them there. Number 2, get rid of beginning your sentence with "you." When it comes to responding in an argument, the word "you" is very triggering because it's you telling them what to do, how they should behave, what they need to say, what they need to do, and they're going to get defensive. So instead of "you," We're going to tweak that to start with "I." When you start with "I," it's not nearly as triggering. Number 3, you're going to use phrases that help dampen defensive responses. Responses like, "I agree, that's something that we should consider," or, "That's helpful for me to know. Thank you." When you use those phrases, it's telling them that they're getting acknowledged and they're not going to get defensive. What I try to do when somebody tells me something and I can tell that I'm getting defensive, I try and imagine like what they just told me was a piano note, right? You ever heard somebody just hit one key on the piano and they just leave their finger there and you just let that note sustain, is what they call it. You let that note just end by itself to where it eventually just falls and drops. The note is no longer heard. It— that's how I imagine it. So when somebody says something that I don't like instead of having this very reactionary response, this very defensive response that I know is not worth my energy and time. I picture in my mind that it has fallen, the words just fell out of their mouth and they're on the ground and I get to look at them and go, is this worth my time? Is this worth my energy? Often when I start to get involved in it and I start to pick it up, I tell myself this phrase that I use small talks, and that is I tell myself, put it down, Jefferson. Put it down, Jefferson. It's not worth your time. What are you doing? Put it down. I say those things to myself and it helps me. It controls my emotions when I can inject my breath, let my breath be the first thing that I say, and have that slow reaction and go, you know what? Nah, I don't have to send that back. I don't have to hit that back over the net. I don't have to take a swing at this. Just let it go by. There's, there's not an umpire. Just let them have a bad pitch. They throw a ball, so what? You don't swing at them. You don't swing at those. So when I have that kind of mentality, it, it helps me in a very specific way because defensive behavior is just biological. It is innate within every one of us that we naturally want to defend things. We want to defend our intelligence. We want to defend our credibility. We want to defend our own ideas and opinions, and when somebody is conflicting with those, we want to put our wall up, to put our shield up, to protect that. That's why so often when you start to say things and you can tell somebody's fighting and fighting and fighting, they are defending against their own ideas. They are protecting their house, so to speak. That's why that whole idea of having something to learn instead of something to prove, having something that's open rather than something that's pointing at them, is going to open up the dialogue so much better and not going to have these defensive reactions. So anytime that somebody tells you something and you start to feel that tension in your body that's preparing you for that fight or flight, just imagine that their words are falling to the ground. You're going to take a few seconds and decide for yourself Is this something I need to respond to? And in truth, it's a cycle, what I call a self-fulfilling prophecy. If I say something and they get defensive, well, more often than not, they're going to say something back and then I'm going to get defensive. And all of a sudden, we're just saying things that are hurting each other, or we both have our walls up. When it comes to defensive behavior, one of the worst things you can do is begin your sentence with You. If I were to tell you right now, you seem like you're in a bad mood, or if I were just to be very blunt, you're in a bad mood, most likely you're going to disagree with me, or you're going to correct me, or you're going to adjust what I just told you. You're going to say, no, no, I'm not, or, well, I know, I'm just, I'm irritated right now. You're not going to accept that I said you're in a bad mood because you is a assumption-based. It is trying to tell somebody what they're doing, what they need to be doing. You're not listening to me. It gets people defensive because what they want to say is, yes, I am, I am listening to you, versus me saying, I feel like you're not listening to me. I feel like I'm not being heard. When you change you to I, it's not nearly as defensive because I'm not assuming that you're doing anything. If I were to say, "You don't even care. You don't care." Automatically, you're gonna have— what you're thinking inside is, "Yes, I am. I do care." People don't like to be told that they are something or they feel a certain way or they're doing something. We don't like that. So, when you just easily turn it from— instead of beginning your sentence with "you," change it to "I." Change it to "I." It's just— it's that easy. I can't make it any more simple. Than that. When somebody's getting defensive, the most likely culprit is because you started a sentence with "you." I'm also guilty of that. All right, anytime that somebody's getting defensive in an argument with me or a conversation, I can go back in my mind and go, "I started that sentence with 'you.' I shouldn't have done that." When I rephrase it with an "I" and say, "Hey, can I start over?" I feel like I wasn't heard. I'm beginning with I, and it's going to smooth it out a whole lot better. So easiest transition here is anytime you say something to keep somebody from getting defensive, instead of you, just replace it with I. Instead of, you can't talk to me like that, it's, I don't respond to that volume. I don't respond to that tone. You make it about you yourself as a saying, I, I feel this way, and take it away from that other person, and they're not going to get defensive. Now, I also want to make sure that I equip you with some phrases that are going to help dampen defensive behavior. If you're already in that argument and things are already going and you go, "Oh man, I really need to just calm things down for a second," here's some phrases that I want you to use real quick. One of my favorites is beginning your sentence with "I agree." Now listen to me, I'm not saying that you're agreeing with what they said, all right? Instead, you're just agreeing that the discussion needs to be had. Instead of thinking micro, go macro. So if somebody's communicating, instead of saying, getting all defensive and arguing with them, I can just say, "I agree that this is worth discussing." You feel automatically that's just going to settle the conversation. It's going to smooth it out. They're going to lower their voice, lower their tone. The spikes are going to be as pointy. You say, "Hey, I—" I agree we need to talk about this. Simple as that. Begin your sentence with, I agree. I agree that this subject is worth discussing. You hear how different that is? They're going to feel acknowledged, like, okay, this is— I'm not having to fight. I don't have to fight and put up all the spikes all the time. Another that I like to use is, that's helpful to know. Tell them that they've been helpful. And when somebody feels like they've been helpful, it feels like they're involved in their own mutual understanding, that they have helped teach you things. That's why I also like using the phrase "what I've learned." "By listening to you right now, I've learned I have some work to do," or "I've learned that this topic is really important to you." That's one I've used often. "I've learned that this topic is important to you." Just by them hearing "I've learned," they feel like they've taught something, and it's going to lower is going to lower all the walls because now they feel like they're on the same playing field. They don't have to continue to pick up their sword and fight and cut and slash to defend their property, defend their own ideas and opinions. Instead, when you use these phrases like, "I agree this is worth talking about," or, "That's helpful for me to know," or, "I've learned that this is important to you," those are all going to quickly put out a lot of fires for you. How has your own communication changed in your life now having written an amazing communication book? I mean, I'm familiar with maybe the personal side of like, you might be like, oh, okay, this is the best you got. I think you wrote a book about this. We're now in this argument. Yes, right.

You know, there's a book you should read. Yeah. So you get that from your wife too? She's like, you know, there's some videos you might want to watch about your community, right? Um, I would say so. I think twofold. The first thing is I just pay a lot more attention to what kind of conversation is happening now. You know, when my kids come to me, it's so easy when your kids come up to assume that they're just asking for help and to solve their problems for them. But, you know, Do they want to be helped, heard, or hugged? And sometimes, sometimes they don't want to be helped. They just want me to hear what's going on and to understand and be able to say like, look, it is, it is okay that you feel that way because I feel that way all the time. Or sometimes they just need a hug. You just need to say like, look, it's not necessarily going to get better tomorrow, but today I can give you a hug. And I can— so I try and pay a lot more attention to what signals is someone sending me about what kind of conversation they want to have. But then the second way it's impacted my life is that there's a study known as the Harvard Study of Adult Development where they followed thousands of people around for over 80 years and they were trying to figure out what are the things earlier in life that make you healthy and happy and successful at age 65, however you define success. They had all these theories like if you had a— because it was done at Harvard, they were like, if you went to Harvard, you're definitely going to be happy, healthy, and successful. Turns out that's not true. That if you get married early and you stay married longer, that you're definitely going to be happy, healthier, and successful. Not necessarily a lot of overlap there. The only thing that they found was a predictor at age 65 was if you had a handful of close relationships at age 45, and that the way that we maintain those relationships is through conversation, right? If I have people I feel close to by the time I'm 65, and I've been close to them for a while, then I'm gonna live longer. I'll live up to 7 years longer. I'll oftentimes be more financially successful because I'm exposed to different kinds of opportunities. And most importantly, I'm just happier. Like, spending time with other people and communicating with other people, as you've pointed out in so much of your work, that is the thing that gives life meaning. And so I have tried very deliberately to think about maintaining those relationships. There's people who I feel close to who I talk to twice a year, but I make a point of talking to them twice a year. And I set up, you know, an hour, 90 minutes to catch up with each other. And you know, the first 5 minutes are gonna be kind of awkward, right? It's gonna be like, what's your kid's name again? How old are they? But then you're gonna be in it and you're gonna feel close to each other. And that, that is an investment that pays off over the long term like you wouldn't believe.

That hit me like a ton of bricks, what you said about your kids, how so often we see it as when they come to us, we're assuming they're asking for help. And that is not always the case. Because like my daughter, she's learning how to tie shoes. And so she really doesn't want my help. She's wanting me to watch. It's always, hey, Dad, watch this. Hey, Daddy, watch this. Same with my son. It's just they're wanting me to observe and acknowledge and be part of it rather than me trying to be like, what, what do you need? No, you're fine. You don't need my help. Like, yeah, you're good. Oh, do you mean do it for you? No, no, no, no, no. That's, that's not it.

Oh man, that's, that's beautiful. Really? Can I ask you, because you've been thinking about this stuff for a long time, how do you feel like your communication has changed as a result of thinking about it so deliberately and explaining it to other folks?

I got this weird habit that I've always had, Charles, of hearing phrases and being like, oh, I like that. Even if it's somebody that's against me, if there's a way that they're going about the conversation, I have this thing where I can kind of see it. And so I like to visualize conversations and try to watch them happen, even when it's me being involved with them. So I think having now invested in communication work and written something and hopefully joining this league of wonderful authors like yourself, it's made me all the more conscious of the bigger picture. And that is the ways that I can slow down in my own life and listen a whole lot more. And it's kind of different because nobody wants to be told to be a better listener. Like, one of my worst videos that ever performed ever was a video I made on how to be a better listener. Really? Nobody wants to be a better listener. But what I have found is that the more I have invested in saying, the richer I've become in learning how to not say anything and listen. And so that, that feels like much more of a strength that I did not anticipate going into this. That's really interesting. If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here and I'll meet you there.