The 5 People You NEED to Remove From Your Life (For Better Communication) | Jefferson Fisher

Who you're around is how you'll sound. Today we are taking a deep dive. We are having an audit of ourselves, asking who in our life influences how we talk. Today we're gonna break some generational curses. Yeah, we're going to ask and see how not only we communicate, how we were influenced by those who came before us, how they communicated, and how that shaped us. And we are going to decide today in today's episode that we are going to do better for the next generation so that they can do better in the next generation.

You ready?

Today I want us to look and take a moment, and this is something I don't think we talk about nearly enough, that how I communicate now, I sound a lot like my dad.

If you remember the first guest we had on the podcast, my parents, You heard my dad and you probably thought, oh my gosh, Jefferson sounds just like him. Well, that's how genetics work.

I, I have a lot of his mannerisms as well as my mom, and I sound a lot like him. And most likely you sound very much like one of your parents, even though you may or may not want to admit it. That's just the way life happens. But there's another element, right, of who is in your vicinity, who's in your environment. Who you are around, they also influence how you're going to talk. My dad was somebody who, when I brought something up to him and I had an issue, he would like to say, well, we'll see. It was always kind of this hopeful, positive, let's just wait. You know, I can't, there's nothing you can do right now, Jefferson. There's no decision. It's kind of what the signal he was giving. It's not what he said. But it, it was this idea of you can't change it right now, so there's no sense worrying about it. So he always kind of had this, well, we'll see type of attitude. If there was somebody who I was afraid to bring something up because they're gonna be disappointed, I go, oh, well, they're gonna be really mad. And he goes, yeah, well, I guess, I guess they'll be mad, or I guess they'll be disappointed. I mean, it was just this mindset that he had of just keep rolling with the flow that I, I also got. And I was very blessed that way. I, I'll be the first to say extremely blessed that way. There are other people I know who have wonderful communicators in their life, in other wonderful environments. You will look at how different places you've been have shaped how you talk to people. I know attorneys that I knew in high school, or excuse me, not in high school, in law school, and they go onto a firm and they change their entire way of speaking. Or I know friends that I do know from high school who went on to go work on Wall Street or corporate or finance. And you know, their whole vernacular changes, their whole vocabulary. People go in real estate or teachers or whatever it is.

We have acronyms.

We have different terms. We have all these sales optimization strategy words that we use for particular influences in our world, and that shapes how we talk. If you're in sales or HR or whatever it is, take an audit right now. So number one, number one, today's podcast is take an audit. That means ask yourself the question, how and who is influencing my communication? And let's, let's go even deeper. Who am I around for the vast majority of my day? Let's put it in a pie chart. A pie chart, you had percentages all around it. Pie chart is a circle.

Who am I around most of the day?

It's usually not your kids, and it's not your spouse or your family.

It's work.

It's work. Or maybe you work from home and you're mostly by yourself. Or maybe it's the cat. I don't know. There is somebody you're around that is influencing how you speak. Put it differently, who are you listening to? Let's go to music. What kind of music do you listen to? How is that influencing how you think about things, how you communicate things? My grandfather, who's a district attorney for a long time, and he used to not be, he was in private practice, and then when he went to go district attorney, his whole vocabulary, of course, started to change. And everybody at the courthouse was what, cursing? What did he start to do?

He started to curse and he never did that before.

And as soon as he left that, that area, he never did again. That's the way it happens. I know friends that have terrible, um, ways of communicating because that's how they're doing it at work. They have ways that it's just weighing on them in some sense because there's that peer pressure or this, maybe the sense to fit in. This is my point. In this part of the episode is just to take an audit of who are you around?

Who are you around?

Cool. Two, I want you to write the names of people.

You don't have to write them if you're driving or anything, you're working out, on a walk.

Just think in your mind. People are going to come up in your mind.

Who are the people who have positive influences on you in the way they communicate?

Names are going to immediately come to mind. These are people that put a smile on your face when you think about them. Who are the people in that sphere who have positive examples of how they communicate? Maybe it's they just, they make you feel happy. Maybe they speak kindness. The reason I use positive is because this is what this podcast is. It is a way to build positivity into your life. The good kind of healthy positivity. And right now we're taking a healthy look at what could be some bad factors in your life. Maybe you're having a hard time thinking of somebody. Maybe you're around what they call the negative Nancys, the people who always see things as half glass empty, the people that are always doubting you, the people that are always putting you down, and therefore you're starting to think, well, I'm really not that cool, I'm not that great. No, don't worry. And you're starting to put yourself less and less and less.

Find the person who you want to emulate.

Of course, there's going to be people in your life that you just tolerate.

In your circle. You know, they're, they're part of the friend group, but they're not really your friend. They're somebody else's friend. Or maybe you just placate them. They're, it's a, a relative that they're there at the family get-togethers, but you really don't care that they're there. They don't care about you and you don't really care about them. It's just, it's part of the exchange.

I want you to think of people who make a difference in how they communicate to you and how you want to emulate that. All right, 3, I want you to think of the words that no longer serve you, that no longer serve you, because what I'm asking you to do in this audit of this episode is at the end of it, I'm asking you to find people that raise your level of thinking. Raise your level of conversation. Raise the level of things that you talk about. Uh, my, there's somebody who's one of my oldest law school friends. She always had this little sign on her laptop, like on the bumper sticker. And it was, it says something along the lines of, I get high on intellectual conversations or intelligent conversations. And I always really liked that because It's, it's, yeah, me saying I like to meet people, make connections, friendships with people that raise my level, raise my standard of what not only I think about myself, but what I communicate, what I talk about. If I talk about small things, I will think small things. If I'm around friends that talk about big things, I will talk about big things. If you're around somebody who's always gossiping, always nagging, you know what you're going to do?

You're going to get negative and start nagging and get negative.

But if you're around people who are always thinking positive, they're always thinking positive momentum, things they want to build, things that they're about growth, people about growth, they invest in you and you invest in them and you all grow together. So this is a time that I want you to— maybe you haven't taken that time yet, so maybe this is the first time you're actually thinking about this, and if so, that's wonderful.

I'm happy to be part of it.

I want you to think of the type of people that are going to raise your level of thinking and raise not just the thinking but your vocabulary. I'm not saying you have to learn new words. I am— we're going back to number 3, and that is choosing the right words. It's not about knowing fancy words.

It's about knowing the right words, words that no longer serve you.

Meaning, if you're always somebody that goes, I mean, maybe so, I don't know, I mean, I guess, No, we're going to scrap all of that.

That's not, that's not building positive momentum in your life.

You're using phrases like, I'm looking forward to, what I'm excited about, what I care about, what I need. Things that are moving forward in your life. Can you hear the difference? Whenever you start thinking of phrases like, I'm confident that, instead of, I believe so, I guess so, I'm confident that. All of a sudden you've built in confidence to it. These phrases that give authority to you, whether it's like words like direction. Direction's a great one. I don't like the direction of this conversation. No, I'd rather take this in a different direction. You are, you are the captain of the ship when you do that. Start finding phrases that lead you to the captain of the ship more often, if that's what you wanna do. You can use any AI. You can Google what are words and phrases I can put in my life that change my sentences to be more positive, more uplifting, less half glass empty and more half glass full in my life. And you're gonna find words like fulfilling. You're gonna find words like confidence or words like experience, words that build you up as part of that growth. And I want you to consider looking for other people in your world, in your sphere, that you can just prune your tree.

Prune your tree of the people that bring the negative in your life and start— I was gonna say fertilize, but Lord, let's not do that. I barely just got this thing replanted, this fiddle leaf fig that I got.

You wanna find people that are going to add water. I'm, all right, I'm removing the plant metaphor.

Right now, cuz I'm, I'm not that kind of, I'm not there yet.

You wanna find people that are going to pour into you, that are gonna help you grow. It's gonna help you grow like a tree. Okay. Rule number 1, I want you to take an audit, audit of yourself of who has influenced how I speak.

Is it my parents?

Is it I'm, uh, the people I'm around? Is it where I work? Two, I want you to find the people and focus on the people that speak positive language around you. Be more like that and find out why they speak that way. What is it about them that speak that way? I'm not saying you have to mimic them. I'm not saying be exactly like them. That's not my point. It is that you want to remove the things that do not serve you.

And do not uplift you and things that are weighing you down and add more of the things that lift you up. All right.

3, find words that serve you better, that push you towards personal growth, because what you want to do is find people that raise your standard, raise your level of thinking, not raise your vocabulary and not just using fancy words or using, you know, very intelligent words. No, you just need to use the right words, and those are words that are going to bring light into your world and light into the world of somebody else. Because after all, that's— isn't that what we're all about?

That's what I'm about.

How important is self-communication? What does Mel Robbins say to herself? How does Mel Robbins talk to herself?

That's a fantastic question. Thank you. No, I'm serious, because how you talk to yourself matters. And I'm 56 years old right now, and how I spoke to myself, my self-talk, was very different for the first 52 years of my life from how it is now. And I heard somebody, there's an incredible woman who I'm sure you know. And if as you're listening to us, you don't recognize this name, that's okay. I'm gonna tell you what she shared with me. Her name is Dr. Julie Smith. And she said recently to me, she said, now, Mel, I want you to imagine the experience of what it would be like to be locked in a room with your childhood bully for a year? Like, how would that feel? And I was like, awful. I mean, and if you just imagine the person that kind of picked on you or that you were kind of afraid of or the kind of mean person that you avoided in your school, imagine being locked in a room with them for a year. It would be horrible. And then she said, well, great. Now imagine what it would be like to be locked in that room instead with your best friend. And that obviously would be better because you'd have a companion, you'd have somebody that you could have fun with, you'd have somebody that would cheer you up and make you feel hopeful even though you're stuck in this room together to play games with, to see the brighter side of things, to make you laugh. And I love that visual because that is your self-communication. The person that you're locked in a room with is a visual example of how you talk to yourself. And as I explain that metaphor for you, and as you visualize it for yourself, just the experience of what it would be like to be locked in a room with a bully versus locked in a room with a best friend, you could viscerally feel what that would be like. And I think what I didn't realize for a long time is just how loud and critical my self-talk and self-communication was. That I didn't see the things that I did well. I saw everything I didn't do right. You know, I could have done 100 things a day. And I'm sure as you're listening to Jefferson and me right now, you've done 100 things already today. Even if it's only 10 o'clock in the morning, you've done 100 things correctly. You fed the dog, you got outta bed, you selected a podcast. Like so many things are like check, check, check, but you don't see any of those. You probably have more of a voice that's a bully. And that was my voice for 52 years. I was just laser-focused on what I was doing wrong, the one thing I didn't get to. I would look in the mirror and pick myself apart. And I think that there's this mistake in society that believes that if you are tough or if you are hard on yourself, that somehow that is motivating you. It actually has the opposite effect. Like, somehow a lot of us are very successful in life, or we get through the day despite the fact that our self-communication and the way we talk to ourselves sounds more like a bully than a best friend. And so a couple years ago, through a combination of just researching a project that I was working on and getting serious about therapy and working on some things in my marriage, And really just saying, I don't understand why I've achieved all this stuff, but I am so burnt out and I feel like I army crawl through the day. And it was surprising to me, although looking back, it doesn't seem surprising when you think about self-talk as either being locked in a room with a bully or locked in a room with a best friend. It was surprising to me how long I lived with a bully in my head. And what I will tell you is this: I am still productive, but I am more motivated, I am happier, and I am able to see the things that are going well because I have changed the way I communicate to myself.

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

Yeah.

Thank you for taking us on this, like, 360 journey. I love Dr.

Julie Smith, whose new book Open Wind is out and is wonderful.

It was so much of how you put yourself out there. You're very open about your anxiety, the self-doubt, so many things that you didn't learn about yourself until much later in life. So what would you say to the person listening to us right now who, if they were in the room with us, would say, Mel, I'm, I'm getting close. I, I feel like I am on the edge right now. I, I've almost hit my limit. I am at a place where I feel lost. What would you say to that person who is struggling right now, and where do you draw from to give them the encouragement that there is more for them ahead?

So there's a number of things I wanna say. First of all, if you can admit to yourself that you've had it and that you're stuck or that just the way that life is going, it's just not working anymore. What I'm gonna tell you, and this is gonna sound awful, is congratulations because that's step 1. Yeah. Step 1 of changing your life is having the courage to admit to yourself that the way that your life is going going right now and the way that it feels for you no longer works for you. That's it. See, I think I misinterpreted what stuckness was for a long time. I thought stuck meant I'm still. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Still is what happened before. That's when you were going through autopilot and you're sort of just going through the motions. When you get to the point where you're like, I've had it, I'm stuck, I'm frustrated, I'm lost, I feel scared about this. That's good news because it means the energy inside you is starting to rattle around. You're no longer on autopilot. You just woke up and went, this doesn't work. And so I want you to first things first, pat yourself on the back because you have declared that the way that life feels isn't how you want it to feel. And that's step one. And you can't change your life without actually doing that first. So that's why I'm gonna say, Give yourself credit for recognizing you deserve more than where you're at. Number 2, I have found that in moments like that, that the most important thing that I can do next, once I say the way that my life feels no longer works for me, I need to do something. I deserve to feel happier. I deserve to feel better. I deserve to look at the next chapter of my life and build something that makes me feel a little bit better and a little bit prouder of myself. So once you do that, here's what I want you to do. I want you to use a tool that I've used over and over and over again to help me in these moments because it is daunting when you go, okay, I know I don't know, I know I don't want my life to feel like this, but I don't know what the heck I want. No problem, no problem. You don't have to know exactly what you want. In your life in order to change it for the better. Because if you don't know what specific career move you wanna make or relationship move you wanna make, or you know what project you wanna take on, or whether or not you wanna move somewhere or what, no problem. Because the single best project to take on when you don't know what to do to change your life is take on improving yourself. So make it a project to either improve your health or make it a project to improve your mental health or make it a project to learn a new skill. And the fact that you have chosen to find time to hit play on this episode and invest in listening to something that could teach you how to be a better communicator, that's an example of what I'm talking about. Because if you make yourself and your own improvement just the project you're gonna focus on, that I've just spent the last 50 years taking care of everybody else for this next chapter of my life, for the next 3 months, the next year, whatever you want, I'm just gonna make my health a priority. You do that and you will start to feel different. You will start to feel better. You will start to have something to focus on other than the aspects of your life that are dragging you down. And simply creating that as a project actually will help you build some forward momentum. And once you start to build forward momentum, now you're gonna start to feel more energized and excited to maybe attack your career or attack the relationship that's not working or attack some bigger problems. But if you don't know what you want out in the future, you deserve to just make yourself healthier because if you can do that, you're gonna feel better in a week or a month and then that's gonna give you new insight into what you actually might wanna take on. So that's step number 2, because a lot of times when people say, I wanna change and then I don't know what I want, that not knowing is what continues to keep you feeling stagnant. Now, third thing I want you to do, because I have come to believe, Jefferson, after 56 years of my own challenges and successes and struggles and things that I've changed in myself and also doing the kind of work that I do, I have come to believe that the single biggest thing that stands in someone's way and stops them from changing their life or changing their job or becoming financially secure or whatever it may be, the single biggest thing, it's not your ability, it's not your skill level. The single biggest thing that stands in people's way is discouragement. This sense that as I sit here in this moment and I'm however old that I am, and I'm telling myself this self-talk that I'm stuck and that no matter what I do, it's not gonna work. And things may work out for Mel or they may work out for Jefferson, but they don't work out for a person like me. Like if you have a sense of discouragement and the self-talk keeps you feeling discouraged, No advice, no plan, no nothing is gonna help because the discouragement convinces you not to do anything. And so I have this exercise that I've done in my own life over and over and over again that helps me shake that discouragement. And it's this, if you're in a moment in your life where you're feeling very stuck, You can grasp, okay, I got it, Mel, I'm gonna work on myself or I'm gonna get a new job, whatever. But I just have this sense that it's not gonna work. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to look backward and look all the way back through your life. Because when you look backwards through your life, what you're gonna notice is that your life is this meandering path of things that have happened good and bad to you. That have all led you to this point. And even your lowest, scariest, saddest, most heartbreaking moments were still part of the fabric of experiences that led you to this moment, all of which gave you skills. It gave you wisdom. It brought you to where you are now. And so I think it's very easy to sit in this moment and see how even the lowest moments of your life actually led you somewhere better in the future. You can do the same thing forward to the future. So if you can look backwards and see all the evidence of your life pointing you to a place where you are now, even if where you are now is stuck, you're still better in many ways than where you were way back when. You can also stand in this moment where you feel stuck and a little lost and a little discouraged, and you can remind yourself that this moment too is but a brick on the path that is my life. And I choose to believe that there is a lesson in this moment that is meant for me. And I may not understand why I need to be stuck right now, but I choose to believe that 10 years from now, I'm going to look back on this moment here and I'm going to understand exactly why this was part of a better future that I can't see right now. And that's how I've been able to leverage hope and leverage optimism when I can't quite trust in what's gonna happen, 'cause I either don't know what's gonna happen or I don't have a clear vision about what I want, but I can trust in my own life experience that I can figure it out and somehow it's gonna make sense. And that has always just helped lift that fog and that heaviness that despair can cast on you in those moments.

Wow.

I mean, there's just so much in there.

I feel like that could have been an entire episode, just those 3 points right there. I mean, that, that is such good, wonderful, applicable advice that anybody can use right away in the way they see things. In my world, What I like to teach is that it's conflict is your catalyst for positive change.

Everywhere you've been in life, it is. You've lost that relationship because of a conflict that has led you to a new one.

You've had a conflict that has caused you to leave that job to create a new one. That the civil rights movement is from conflict that has happened where somebody says, I mean, our whole career as attorneys, somebody says, you know what, hey, I don't like that.

That's not right.

And it's through that change that we have those positive outcomes. I've also heard it where it's rejection is misdirection or redirection, I think is the right term for it.

Can I say something? Please. Here's the thing, 'cause it builds on what you're talking about with conflict. Yeah. The mistake that we make is we think that the organizing conflict is what's happening out there. I don't think that's necessarily true. And if you're stuck or struggling right now, or you're in the middle of a big reinvention or a change that you wanna make, I want you to own the fact that the actual conflict that is powerful is the internal conflict that you are feeling. Mm-hmm. Because you know you're not in the right job, you know you're not in the right relationship, you know that you're not taking good care of yourself, you know that something is off. And so that internal conflict is hardwired into that GPS system in your body that is trying to keep you aligned and on a path that is aligned with your values and what you deserve in life. And so I love that you're starting with this idea of conflict because, you know, people get stuck and frustrated and lost, and then they get scared because that feels very agitating and disorienting. That's a really good conflict because it means that internally your body is trying to wake you up and have you go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. This job doesn't work for me. I shouldn't be treated like this. I'm no longer happy in this relationship. I need to do something about it.

Yes, it is that whenever you have that internal struggle, instead of seeing it as, oh, I just— this is the worst thing.

I can't believe this.

My life is in shambles. Flip that mindset to say, my body is at work. I am going through growing pains.

This is—

I am coming out on the other side of it. My body is preparing me to be a different person. It is the metamorphosis of how you're going to be growing.

I mean, it is—

you are in your cocoon at that moment. I mean, so I love that concept.

We all have moments where our emotions get the best of us, whether it's a hard conversation at work or a hard conversation at home, if you want to have more effective communication, you have to increase your emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence isn't just a buzzword. It is something that can transform the way you communicate, how you understand the other person, and more importantly, how you understand yourself. Emotional intelligence. I like to think of it as emotional fluency. In other words, I'm fluent in the language of my emotions. I can recognize my emotions. I can speak my emotions, and I can better identify those emotions in other people. And by increasing your emotional intelligence, you take more control over how you feel and how you can guide the interaction in the conversation. And I'm going to tell you how to do that in 3 easy steps. Number 1, use the phrase, I I need. It's as simple as that. Begin your response with I need. It's a very entry-level way of being emotionally intelligent. Number 2, have something to learn, not something to prove. Too often we're fighting over who has the right answer rather than fighting to ask the right question. And number 3, what triggers you teaches you. So instead of focusing on what the other person is doing and why they're doing what they're doing, It's asking the reflective question of, "What is it about what they're doing that is making my emotions feel out of place?" Too often we think about our needs, our emotional needs in a given communication. We think about how we're feeling because we feel it bubbling to the top. I feel my emotions starting to rise up. I can tell I'm getting stressed out. Maybe my eyes are starting to water and things are starting to to rise and ignite within myself, and I don't know how to voice it. Instead, when you don't voice your needs and use the phrase "I need," like, "I need a moment," "I need to take a moment to digest what you just said," "I need to take a break," "I need to understand what you said," when you put out the words "I need," it makes it to where you are voicing your emotions out loud instead of you bottling them all up, which increases that ignition, increases that tension in your body, you are saying it out loud. Say, "I need to understand what you're saying because it's making me feel a certain way." By putting out your needs or saying, "I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. I can tell I'm not feeling myself." Or as easy as saying, "I feel sad when you say that. I feel upset," or, "I feel defensive when you make that kind of comment or when you talk about this topic." Whenever you put these kind of statements out there, it's becoming much more emotionally intelligent because you're recognizing what is happening within your body. You're not just keeping it all in. You are voicing it to where you're able to share exactly what you need. It's okay to assert your needs in a conversation. To always feel instead like you're having to be walked on, that you have to cater to everybody else and people-please? Absolutely not. You are somebody that can voice their needs at any time in the conversation. So I want you to feel confident and I want you to feel firm and to be able to say, "I need you. I need this. I need to talk about this." When you say "I need," it makes it much more reflective and you emotionally more intelligent about how you're feeling in that moment. I use the phrase "I need" a lot in my communication when I need to add time as a variable into the communication. Often people rush things. They rush conversations when I'm not ready, when you're not ready, uh, or I can tell my— the way I'm feeling is starting to bubble up and my, my heart's starting to beat faster. Whenever I feel that happening, you can increase your emotional intelligence, your emotional fluency, by saying, I, I need a moment. That's probably my most often. I need some time to, to think on this, to chew on this. I just need a pause for me to add some distance to help my, my body regulate and make sure my analytical is not allowing my emotional to take over. And that leads really to the, the second part is having something to learn, not something to prove. This is— let me tell you why that's important. When you are focused solely on proving something to somebody, that means you, uh, you see this all the time, people feel like they have to, or you have to, change their mind. That's trying to prove something. I'm trying to win against you. I need you to see things exactly the way I see them. I need you to agree with the exact type of way that my mind is thinking in this moment. When you're trying to prove a certain position against them, they often will tighten up and believe something even more. They become even more convinced that they're right the more you push to try and prove that they're wrong. So instead, you become much more emotionally intelligent when you realize that's happening within you, and you kind of become, you know, water off a duck's back is what the phrase I grew up saying. Water off a duck's back. In other words, you just let those kind of problems and emotions bead off of you to understand that you are much more concerned about what to ask them, the question to ask. And that means you have something to learn. When I can go into a conversation with somebody, especially when it's heated, and I can say to myself, am I trying to prove something or am I trying to learn something right now in this moment? And see how I can even tag that together? Hey, I need, I need to pause for a moment. Even 5 seconds. I can talk to myself and say, am I trying to prove something or am I trying to learn something right now? And too often it's me trying to prove something. And I can flip the whole dynamic of the conversation when I focus on what's something that I can learn about them. Something small, rather than me trying to force-feed them my opinion and then getting upset that they don't take it hook, line, and sinker. Instead, you have something to learn, not something to prove. And number 3, lastly, what triggers you teaches you. Now, this is one of my favorite phrases to talk about because it is so true, as much as I sometimes wish that it wasn't. And that is, when somebody has triggered you, in other words, they've done something that is raising bringing up this negative adverse reaction to you and you feel triggered by what they've done. Often the first place we point the finger is at them. They say, "I can't believe you did that. How do you dare do that? Why would you do that? You should know that what you did is going to affect me that way." Emotionally intelligent people point the finger at themselves first. You know, having something to learn, not something to prove. And they ask the question. They get curious and say, "What is it about what they did that is causing this reaction within me? So we all have triggers. In other words, we all have a button that somebody can press, and the people that are closest with us, they're the ones that know these triggers the best. But too often we don't ask the question ourselves. Now, yes, there's a trigger, and yes, there's a button, but why is there a button there in the first place? So why is there?

A button?

What is it about this behavior that triggers me? What is it about what they said that is causing me to feel so out of place with my emotions? And we just don't ask that question. If you want to be much more emotionally intelligent, you have to know your triggers. In other words, you have to know your buttons. And the reason why that's important is because you don't put yourself in positions for somebody else to press that button. You don't talk about things where you invite people to press that button. That's the hard part, is that you don't put yourself in a position to where you aren't going to be emotionally intelligent. Emotionally intelligent people prevent themselves from being in situations where you're going to be triggered. That's, that's the hard part of it. Once you know your triggers, you know the areas to avoid, and in a circular fashion, it makes you much more Emotionally intelligent.

So one major question that I see a lot of people asking is, how did you teach—

I say me, but really all of us, all of my siblings—

the balance between being assertive, meaning not being a wallflower and getting stepped over? How do you also balance kindness? You want to not be rude to somebody, but at the same time you want to be very direct. I'm curious if y'all had any mindset or tools for how you thought or how you gave me advice about that.

Like, for example, Dad, you would tell me if I came to complain about something, you'd say, don't make that your Alamo. That's what you'd say.

You say, don't make that your Alamo. In other words, don't let that be the hill to die on. And there was this kind of sense of So, you know, I mean, the kind of the— when Jonathan was upset that Mom was all in his business and he's— and Mom just— and you say, so?

I mean, there are just things about that.

I'm just curious what the balance was like for y'all, what y'all saw.

You wanna go first?

You go ahead. I don't remember you having a problem with assertiveness. You were always very assertive. You were never timid, and you did it with a cheerful disposition. So you had a very cheerful, assertive disposition as a child, um, and you were rarely disrespectful. And because we had a zero tolerance for that, you quickly, quickly stopped.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so I don't remember us having to encourage you to be assertive. What I can remember doing is, is sitting down and explaining maybe how do you deal with disappointments or something that didn't go well. Just, well, you know, don't worry about it. Right. And be thankful. That was one thing y'all hated, you know, say, well, give me 10 things that you're thankful for. Yeah. And that's a good way to do it with a child. And, you know, you start, well, I'm thankful for Daddy and Mama.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, Sarah and Jonathan. I said, no, no, not family members. What are some things you're thankful for? The downside was, is when I'd get upset, y'all would turn it on me. So, Daddy, here's 10 things you're thankful for.

Yeah, yeah.

Turnabout was fair play. But y'all were— y'all really were— y'all were sweet children.

And then I—

yeah, and I give that to your mama because she, she demanded respect. Not only for herself and for the parents, but for y'all to respect each other. Yeah. And to defend each other and to be kind to one another. I don't remember y'all ever coming to blows.

You know, that was never in the question.

And, you know, every now and then y'all would yin-yang. And, but she really did a good, good job of saying, that's enough.

Yeah.

How did you see that mom? Maybe not with just assertiveness, but on top of how you— when we say zero tolerance policy, like, what was your mindset of what you— how you would handle me or any of us when we said something that was disrespectful, which I'm sure was very few times, Mama?

Um, I can just— I just remember saying, you're not going to talk to me like that. That's not acceptable to me.

Yeah.

You say, yes ma'am, no ma'am. And sometimes it's not only what you say, but the tone.

Yeah.

You know, and I'd say you better watch your tone.

Yes.

That's true.

Would you like to say that again?

Yes.

A little bit more respectfully. Yeah.

Yeah. Mama would always say, let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. You say that a lot.

I can remember you being just in your little infant stroller. Yeah, you were a very strong-willed child, right? Not in a mean way, but you were very strong-willed. Yeah, and you'd go over and start, you know, knocking off the magazines. And, and, you know, even from a very young child, would, you know, just not hurting you, but spat your hand or say, no, don't do that. Yeah. And then you'd go back and you'd do it again and would have to discipline you then again. And discipline you again and maybe do it 4 or 5 times in a row. And finally, that 4th or 5th time, you go up to it and look at it and look at us to see whether we're watching. And we just look at you and you'd pull the hand back and you'd scoot off and do something different.

Yeah, his walker.

In your walker. I mean, that's when you were those little bitty walkers. And so I think that we were, we were consistent.

Yes, that's part of it right there.

And that's what's so hard for parents is, is they'll do it a couple times or Say, well, I'm going to count to 3. No, no, we don't do that. If I tell you to stop, stop. And if you don't, then there's a little bit of— not, not being abusive in any way, but there's a repercussion. But you were a people pleaser in the sense that you wanted your parents to be happy to you. In fact, that's what you would say when you were a child. If we wouldn't discipline you, you'd say please be happy to me. Yeah, happy to me. And you want to be held, and so you wanted to please us, and so it hurt your heart to know any displeasure, right? And so it's— but it's important for children to know the boundaries, and it's important to be consistent. And it's so hard for a parent to stay consistent. Yeah, they do it a couple times, it's just worn you out. You got— they're looking— kids are looking for boundaries. And they're always going to push them. Yeah. And you want them to do that. It means there's something— they've got a strong personality, which is good, which is good. You just got to mold it right in a way that's helpful without breaking their spirit. And you can do it. Yeah. You're not going to break their spirit by spitting in their hand.

You just know. Yeah. And it was barely just like, no, no.

Oh, yeah. No, it was not like a— yeah, it was not like a thinking hard.

It's amazing how smart children are.

Here's a hard truth: if you don't advocate for yourself, nobody will. And if you don't assert your needs, let's face it, you will get walked over every single time. At the end of today's episode, you're not going to have to worry about it. We're talking how to stand up for yourself. The first thing to know about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it. Because number 1, not everybody's worth getting out of your chair for. It is a know your worth mentality. And we're going to talk exactly where you need to go in your mind leading up to these conversations. Number 2, get rid of the verbal disclaimers. These are little statements you say before you say what you need to say, like, hey, I'm sorry, but I just feel like maybe— we're going to talk about getting rid of those and how to do it. Number 3, Stop justifying the nos. Stop having to feel like you need to explain yourself on and on just because you turn somebody down. When you do that, it takes away slowly from your self-confidence, and I don't want to see that. Now, maybe nobody's told you this, but just because somebody has said something does not mean that it requires a response from you. Just because they threw a pitch doesn't mean you have to swing. You just let it go by. There's this idea in our head that because somebody gave us an opinion, we have to give an opinion back. That's just not true. When it comes to standing up for yourself, it is often the person that is not worth your time that you don't need to give attention to. And often that's the exact opposite of what we do. We find ourselves trying to justify and explain to people that do not matter in our life, the people that, that rank low in our priority list, but yet we, we feel like we have to prove something to them every single time that we talk. Eliminate that concern. When people play chess, it's expected that you're going to take a pawn. Nobody freaks out about it. Nobody loses their mind when somebody takes a pawn because they know the value is not the pawn. They can take a rook, Okay, they want to take a queen. That's different. Understand that there's going to be lots of different conflicts in your, in your life. Lots of different conversations. They are not all the same. The feeling you get by talking with certain people, those friendships, where they rank in relationship to you, they're not all the same. So what I want you to understand is stop attending every argument that you're invited to. Just because somebody gave an opinion and said something to you, you had the choice of just letting it go, saying, that does not require any response from me, that is not worth my time. That's why I say it's a know your worth mentality. Before you stand up for yourself and feel like you have to say something, ask the question, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Is this somebody that actually needs part of my energy, because there is a strength and a wisdom in conserving your energy and protecting your peace. So the next time that happens, I want you to go through that filter and ask yourself, is this person worth getting out of my chair for? Because I, I know my worth. And please understand, that goes for anything that they say. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean we're in the business of picking up trash. Let me say that again. Just because they spew out garbage does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. You can politely tell them where it should go, and it's not gonna be on you. So understand that part of protecting your peace is understanding, I know what they're saying is not worth my time. I'm gonna take it and set it aside. Personally, what I do in my own life is I have a wastebasket. All right? I have a trash bag right next to me in my mind. And if somebody says something I don't like, rather than me feeling like I have to throw it back to them, I have to pick up that trash, that gross nasty thing that they said, and give it right back to them, I just take it and move it over and put it in the trash. You can say like at a computer or a laptop, you just get it, you drag it over, and you put it in the recycling bin. And then you delete it. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to carry it. So understand, just because they throw out garbage at you does not mean that you're in the business of picking up trash. When you have to advocate for yourself, part of that mindset is knowing how to go into it. Too often there is a hesitancy to say what you need to say. We treat it like it's a—

I don't know, what do they have, like the cold plunge?

Or a pool that's filled with cold water. If you tiptoe into it, it's much worse. When you don't say what you need to say right out of the gate, and instead you slowly walk into it with these little disclaimers, what I call them. This sounds like, "Hey, you know, I've just been— I just feel like I need to say this, I guess.

It's—

and maybe I'm talking out of pocket here, but—" You ever heard that? Ever said that before? When you say, "Ah, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm sorry, but maybe, you know—" I'm just feeling more like you are trying to hesitate saying what you need to say. Like you want to smooth it over. You want to hedge to make sure nobody feels like you're being too direct with it. But when it comes to asserting yourself, when it comes to stating your needs, nobody's going to do it for you. Remember, you're the one that has to be bold and out in the open with it. So think of it as that cold swimming pool. If you walk right into it, it's going to not feel great. It's not going to look smooth. It's not going to feel smooth. You either have two choices: you don't say it at all, or you jump right in. When you see people doing that cold plunge, they don't walk right into it. They don't slowly go into it. They put their whole body into it. So I want you to get used to that idea of, I'm going to put my whole body into this thing. If I have something to say, I'm going to say it. I'm not going to feel like I have to apologize for it. I'm not going to feel like I have to be hesitant and hedge the whole time. If it is something that is on your heart and it is something that is truly asserting your needs in your life, you have one chance, one life, and this is it right here for you to be able to state your peace, assert your needs, and say what you need to say. Now, another part of this is often when it comes to standing up for yourself, it happens in moments where you need to say no to something. You need to turn something down. Maybe somebody's invited you to something, you got offered something, and you need to say no, but you don't know how to say it, and you're just not sure you can advocate that you need to say no. Now, we're going to talk later in this podcast about how to say no to certain things, how to decline something and still be respectful, how to disagree and still be respectful about it in those little bitty specific scenarios. Here, this is the point I'm making of that there are times when you have to say something and they need to hear you say no. And there's a difference between saying no because after the end of it, using that word because to justify it, and just saying no. For example, let's say you ask me a question and I just said, "No." "No." Versus, "No, because, you know, I have that thing that we talked about and, you know, I got to make sure that I take care of this and it's just been really busy lately and I've just been so stressed, you know, and so, well, I have that other thing, you know." You see how it's much weaker? All of a sudden, I've added 3 more sentences after the "no" and I've slowly watered down the place that I need to assert my needs. If I need to say no to something, I need to say no. So eliminate that habit of always saying no because. It's just no. And if they need to ask other questions, they're free to ask other questions, and you're free to say no again. I want you to feel empowered, all right, on this idea of just because they asked me something does not mean I have to give them something. Just because they told me something does not mean I have to have an answer for something. Standing up for yourself means that you are in complete peace with who you are and your presence in the conversation, and you know your worth wherever you are in that conversation, or if there should be a conversation at all. So when you need to say no to something, step into that. Don't go with these little verbal disclaimers. You say no to it. You don't say because an add-on, a verbal, um, it's like the opposite of a verbal disclaimer. You add in everything afterwards. No, because I'm just feeling X, Y, and Z. You don't need that. The word is no, period. What lots of people like to say, and what I support, is no is a complete sentence.

How do you stand up for yourself in the times where you know you should?

The biggest thing to know about standing up for yourself is knowing when to do it. There's a lot of people that you— if you always get out of your chair to stand your ground on every little issue, your legs are going to get tired. Like, you just— some people are worth getting out of your chair for, and some people aren't. There are some people that if you really feel like an injustice— like, for me, a driving principle is justice. If I feel like something is unjust, I'm much more I guess it's unjust, then I'm much more prone to get out of my seat and say, no, no, this is not, this isn't cool. That's not fair. This isn't equal. You don't talk, you don't treat people that way. But if you're the yippy dog that always barks at every car that goes by, it's that same principle of really nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna listen nearly as much. It's the walk quietly with a big stick kind of mentality. When you wanna stand up for yourself, it is, this truth of knowing that I can choose to say nothing. And a lot of times that is far more powerful than anything I could say. If you're going to say something ugly to me and then I just let it hang, oh, it's one of the most powerful things you can do is to look at them as if there's nothing that you said that could ever harm me. And then they just don't do it as much. You're telling them it's not gonna be fun for you if you go down this road with me. Interesting. Where did you learn that? A lot of it is my upbringing.

So in the book, I talk about my, I'm the oldest of 4.

I'm a 5th generation trial attorney. So I've seen a lot of trials, heard a lot of trials, and I just had a weird childhood where, a wonderful childhood where I get picked up from school, like get put in the corner of my dad's deposition while he finishes. Or to watch the end of a closing argument. Then as the oldest of 4, had a lot of experience resolving conflict, plenty of conflict between brothers and sisters. I'm the oldest, have my sister and then my 2 younger brothers. And then a lot of it is, you'd think it was law school, but it's not. You have trials, but trial is probably one of the most important ones because it's, let's say you're my witness. And let's say you're opposing, you're against me, you're adverse, and I have to cross-examine you, meaning I have to prove that you're wrong on something. Now, as you already know, there's another attorney who's going to be ready to jump in and object to every question I have. You have a judge that's going to rule on the evidence of if my question passes. You have a bailiff, court reporter, and then there's probably 12 people if we're in district court in the state of Texas that are going to all be listening to everything that I do. And it's not so much the question I'm asking, it's how I'm asking it. So I could be saying something, and let's say the other person objects, judge rules against me. If I act like I'm really upset about it, they're going to think, oh, that's bad for his case. If you say something and I act like it really hurts me and I get mad, like, oh, that's not true, they're going to know, oh, this is actually bad for his case. It's this way of processing information with the understanding that there are other people in the room. Even if you don't know it, even if you're not seeing it, there are other people that are always paying attention to what you're doing.

Wow. So trial almost sounds like it's like communication poker.

Oh, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to play the hands that you're dealt. So let's put it at that. You know, I can't choose better facts. I can't choose the law that I'm wanting to use.

And the same way, it's not really winning.

I mean, you might have a better hand than me, but it's just how I play it. Yeah.

And can I give it away or not? Yeah. Fascinating.

Well, and the thing is, people think that trial is this whole gotcha game. It's not. Everybody knows everybody's facts before you go in. None of it's a surprise. None of it. I know all your bad facts. You know all of my bad facts. We all know each other's bruises. It's just who can play the fiddle better. And it's a weird situation in which When I ask you a question, I'm also wanting the jury to hear what you say and how that compares with the facts that I have. So a lot of the tools that I teach about framing conversations, it's the same way of how I would frame a question or how I give a big roadmap or how I would kind of make you say what I want you to say or how I have an open or closed-ended question. It's all kind of the same principles. Interesting.

Do you use the principles with your wife too? No. She call you?

She call you out? She's also an attorney. Oh yeah, we went to law school together. Oh my goodness. Yeah, and she knows immediately if I'm trying. She'd say, don't cross-examine me. Like, it's very, very quick. She's very quick to say that. And so there's a certain style of cross-examination where if you start to just steam them out, it's like, nope, you can't. What would that sound like? Use short little statements. So typically in TV, you see the wrong stuff. TV is all so fake when it comes to questions. Isn't it true whether, you know, isn't true on or about? December 21st, 2024, you were at the Buc-ee's in Bastrop, Texas, yes or no? There, you're never going to get that, that kind of answer from somebody. And you've seen it like at the Johnny Depp trial, like people ask really bad questions. Really, um, the best cross-examination aren't questions, they're very short statements. And so maybe I'm wanting to draw out that the car that you saw that weekend was red. And so I'd say something like, you were out that weekend? You'd say, yeah. You see, I didn't say yes or no. I'd say, you were out that weekend? Yeah. Saw a car? Yeah. Car was red? And then sometimes they go, well, you know, I don't know. I really don't. And they start going on and on and on. So the witness is trying to run on you, trying to make you look bad. And all you do is just come back, red. The car was red. Yeah, so it's really easy to do that in, let's say, at the kitchen table if you're like wanting to make a point, but that'll get you in trouble. Yeah, if your wife's an attorney. Yeah, yeah, she doesn't, she doesn't allow any of that.

She catches that real quick. Yeah, my husband does the opposite. He does the CIA method, which is often saying things like, um, oh, um, like I'll be like, hey, you know, did you do X, Y, and Z? And he'll be like, X, Y, and Z. And then I'll be like, yeah, you know, did when I said that we were going to do this. And eventually he'll just keep asking the question back, like, oh, did I do that? And finally I'll either just get annoyed and walk away because I don't think he's understanding me. And it works beautifully.

Like the mirroring?

Yeah, exactly. And except now that I'm onto it. Yeah, he got me for years with that. Years? Yeah, I think I was slow on the uptick. It's like, never mind, that's funny.

I just, I'm just not gonna get engaged.

What's been something you've had to work on personally in your communication skills, either with your wife or with your kids, your family?

I struggle as much as anybody. I find that one thing that I can do sometimes is just the natural instinct of getting defensive because it is part of our biology. Somebody disagrees with my opinion, I want to, I want to show them how wrong they are. If somebody says something ugly, your natural reaction is to let me send the zinger. Let me concoct something so poetic that you're not going to get it right now. You're going to get it 3 days from now because what I'm about to zing right in your face is going to live in your head rent-free. Like, that's the kind of thing that everybody has right at the outset of trying to calm yourself and make sure that you're just not getting flooded or doing something that's going to hurt. I also work— I really do a lot of work on what we just talked about, owning my own emotions. I'm an internal processor. So my wife is an external processor, very external. So she wants to talk about all the things at all the time. And that's how she explains her reasoning and thoughts. She likes to talk out loud. I like to keep it all in, and I sometimes don't really even like to talk about emotions. Sometimes if I'm trying to be really efficient, emotions, I feel like they drag me down. I feel like they're inconvenience sometimes. And that's just me being me. I'm— that's just how I, how I operate. And so understanding to have the acceptance of all emotions and not having to agree with their emotion is something that everybody can work on, including myself.

You've referenced your dad a lot in the podcast. You dedicated your book to them. I think you said, "To my parents who prayed over me," or something to that effect. You just had your parents on your podcast, first guest. What was that experience like, given everything that you've learned from them?

Oh man, having them on the podcast, I was just really trying to like hold it together. There were so many moments where my dad tears up. Now that he's a grandfather, he like tears up all the time. And then of course I, I feel that emotion in the room. I'm one of those where I, I, if I see somebody crying in a movie, I probably cry in the movie. Like, I can't watch scary things. I can't. It's somebody has an awkward moment in a movie, I feel so awkward. And so I, I sometimes will read that, and I felt that a lot from my dad. And it was different talking to your parents. Like, all of a sudden I feel like I'm a kid. So I don't, I don't talk the same. I talk like I, I'm in the living room with them in my pajamas. So it's just a different dynamic where you feel a lot more comfortable. And it was a little bit more intimidating because I'm asking them kind of about myself and how their thought process was. And I'm not trying to make the episode all about talking about Jefferson, but at the same time, that's— people are curious of like, how are your parents? And so it was an opportunity for me to honor them. And I know I talk about my dad because I have a lot of his mannerisms, and like, he's very diplomatic and very slow to speak, quick to listen kind of thing.

But my mother is incredibly kind.

My dad's nice too, don't get me wrong. My mother is very kind. And so she was the type that if I had a problem with something, somebody at school, and complaining about it, she'd go, well, were you kind? And I'd say, well, Mama, you don't understand, they did X, Y, and Z. And she would just say, well, I, I think you should be kind. Like, doesn't matter what they did, there's always the room for kindness. So she just spent a lot of time with me being such a nurturer, and she's a wonderful mom. Oh, I'm the oldest of 4, and I think that's, that's the reason why we have a really very strong relationship, or the standards that they they said.

You mentioned your dad like tearing up and that like triggered some emotion in you. What was a specific moment from the podcast where, you know, you felt yourself on the verge of tears because of something good that was shared from your parents?

Yeah, so my dad would, there were several times where I was trying to hold it together, but there was a specific time where dad was talking about nighttime prayers and stories and he would sit on the edge of my bed. And he'd make up a story. And as a trial attorney, wonderful storyteller, like he could put you right in that place. And it all became so vivid the way he would tell a story. And he would always make me the hero, you know, some Prince Jefferson going to save Queen Sherlyn or Princess Sherlyn, which is my mother's name. And so it would always kind of set me up as saving the day and I would just You're just a kid. It feels amazing. It felt special. And it just felt so nostalgic. Like I could put myself there. I could feel the bedsheets. I can, I could see my bedroom and it doesn't feel that long ago, Doug. It just doesn't feel that long ago. And now I'm doing the same thing with my kids at the same age. And, you know, I was looking through old pictures of my parents and seeing me. The same age of my kids and just going, geez, where has the time gone?

And it was, it's still their first time to be parents.

And that's just a really hard thing to go around mentally. And I start to see myself in my parents. I start to do things. I'm like, oh my gosh, that is my dad. My sister says something. I'm like, oh my gosh, that is mom. And it's just, it's a funny way that the world works. But it's a very special way too.

You have this amazing gift at communicating difficult topics to your audience, and you're a great, you know, storyteller yourself. Do you think that a big part of your ability to have difficult conversations and convey difficult topics is because your dad modeled that for you and your mom with kindness growing up?

Yeah, I think that that certainly was a big part of it, of seeing the standard that they set in the way they treated each other, the way they handled arguments in the house, the way my dad would— when I had problems, he would probe the, you know, what, why, or so. And I say so, I mean, like, I would bring something to him and he'd go, so, like, in other words, the excuse was never— that was never the issue. So he was great at peeling back the layers of however I was feeling about something. And yeah, big, big motivator. Another that I give full credit to is just, it's a gift. It's a spiritual gift that my parents prayed for in my life to give me wisdom and charisma and to be able to be what they wanted me to be in the world and a way that I could live in his purpose. And so I find that it is my joy to use a gift. I mean, don't ask me to do economics. Don't ask me to build you a birdhouse. I'm the wrong guy. But when it comes to words and communication and the videos that I make, I have no explanation. I don't, I don't write, I don't script any of my videos out. I don't Google any of my topics before I talk. I just give my tips. And so there's just some part of it that I really have no good explanation other than to say it's a gift that is truly my joy and responsibility to share.

I have an issue with my mother. It never fails that anytime that we're at a family engagement or we are coming to visit her, she always apologizes in a way that says, I'm so sorry that I'm a bad mom. I hear this all the time, no matter what I do. I'm so sorry that I'm a bad mom. What can I say to, what can I say to that? There's other like personal information that I don't wanna include. Maria, I'm sorry that you're having to go through that. That is not uncommon for people to, certain people that they want to make sure that instead of apologizing, they wanna make you feel bad for them in some way. 'Cause that's what it is when somebody says, oh, I'm sorry that I'm such a terrible person. I'm sorry that you're, so perfect. What they're wanting you to do and hoping— what your mother's hoping, or anybody who does this is hoping— that you will say, well, I'm not so perfect, or you're not a bad mom. That's really— no, no, you're not a bad mom. You're a really good mom. And then they'll say, well, you always— you never do this. You never do that. No, you always tell me I'm so terrible. And they start making stuff up. You go, what are you talking about? I've never done that. I've not said that. You're referencing something that happened 5 years ago. They're wanting to create a structure to manipulate the situation that has it to where you are the one that apologizes to them. You're the one that needs to say, I'm sorry. You're the one that needs to owe them something in a way, because they want you to feel bad either about yourself or the way that you've treated them, all to get you to avoid having to hear them say an apology. So when that happens, when somebody says, well, I'm sorry that you're so perfect, I'm sorry that I'm such a bad mom, a bad dad, a bad person. Don't take the bait. All right, Maria, don't take that bait. Just let that go. And only the only thing I want you to respond with is this. I'm willing to accept an apology. Mom, I'm willing to accept an apology. Here, what you're doing is just letting go what they said, the distraction, the potential manipulation to say, I'm going to put all that aside and I'm going to tell you what I'm willing to accept. I'm willing to accept an apology. I'm willing to accept a genuine apology. That I will accept. And then that, we're going to be done. It's this mindset of you're just going to stay still and you're not going to go chase what everybody else is doing. Sound good?

So it—

just understand when that happens, it's very normal. It's very common. It's just ways of trying to get the spotlight off of them and deflect, right? You've heard that. They just want to deflect responsibility. That's another tactic of doing that. They just want to send it off to somebody else and it just happens to be you in the room. So they want to blame other people for how and why they're acting a certain way. So instead you say, I'm willing to accept an apology. Yeah. And if somebody says, well, I did apologize. No, I said I'm sorry. I said sorry. There it is. I'm done. I said I'm sorry. That's not a real apology either because they don't mean it. So what I like to do when you kind of hear that, all you need to say is, I'm willing to accept it when it sounds like a real apology. I'm willing to accept it when it sounds like you mean it. I'll accept it when it sounds like you mean it. So just understand that when you're saying these phrases of I'm willing to accept or I will accept it, you're giving them an out. You're saying, hey, you can be out of this situation. I'm willing to accept it at any point when it sounds like a real genuine apology. And I have to make sure that I tell you, some apologies are never going to come. They're not going to happen. That's not your fault. There's no magic phrase. There's nothing you can say that's going to make someone apologize if they don't want to. They won't. You just can't do anything about that. But what you can do is to decide and reprioritize in your mind how important this person is to you. Because if they're not willing to apologize to something that is important to you, then that should be considered in a major way if they truly do care about you and want to be in your life and want to be the better part of your life. So understand that some apologies aren't going to happen. That doesn't mean that you've done something wrong. That doesn't mean that you're a failure, a failure. It doesn't mean that any of the blame should be placed on you. That's just not going to happen for some people for any number of reasons in any number of contexts. But I want to make sure that I tell you, when they refuse to apologize, don't keep digging a hole that you're never going to find water in. Don't try to force it when it's just not going to happen. If you need to, you can say, hey, is there a chance that we can have another conversation? We can talk about how I need an apology from what just happened. Maybe if you postpone it in a certain way, because sometimes people don't want to apologize in the moment, to say, you know, I will apologize, I'm not ready to right now. That's valid. That's, that's a real feeling. But to totally dismiss you altogether and say, I'm never apologizing for that, I'm not apologizing, I've done nothing wrong, I'm never going to apologize. You need to, instead of continuing to force it and pressure and make it look like you're pleading for this apology, what you really just need is, is an acknowledgment that they know what they did.

That's really what you want at the end of the day.

You just want them to acknowledge 'Cause apologies often are really for you so that you can understand and hear that they acknowledge what they did and they acknowledge the consequences of it and those repercussions. So make sure and hold your ground. And if they don't wanna apologize, that's not your fault. Bad apologies are never fun. They're extremely frustrating. It makes you want to just scream out loud sometimes, but instead we're just going to keep ourselves calm and cool. And remember, when you hear bad apologies, go back to the mindset of, Where are they trying to take me and how can I bring them back to it? So if somebody says, well, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Number 1, you're going to respond, you don't need to apologize for my feelings. I need you to apologize for what you said. If they try to make something number 2, that's conditional to say, I'm sorry if, I'm sorry if you feel that way. You're going to go back to number 1. You don't need to apologize for my reaction. I got that. I'll control my reaction. I need you to take accountability for what you did. And if somebody is trying to push off that responsibility altogether, understand that it's okay to just let it go and understand where that person is in your life and how important they are to you. Bad apologies, never fun. But you handle those tips, you get a hold of those tips, take them to heart, you'll be able to do it better next time. The right compliment can change your entire day. A bad compliment can ruin it. But how do you give a compliment? How do you accept a compliment? And what do you do when the compliment is backhanded. On today's episode, as you can guess, they're all about compliments. The next time that someone gives you a compliment, here's what I want you to do. Number 1, instead of downplaying it, you're going to say thank you and tell them what it means to you. For example, if I were to say, "That's an awesome looking shirt," instead of saying this whole thing, "Oh, I got it at Dillard's off the sales rack," or, "This is so old. I got this 7 years ago," you're going to say, "Thank you. That makes me feel good." I like it too. Number 2, instead of dismissing or deflecting the comment, you're going to say thank you and tell them that you appreciate it. For example, if somebody were to compliment you at work, instead of saying, ah, it was nothing, or I'm just doing my job, you're going to say, thank you. I appreciate that. That means a lot to me. And number 3, instead of being self-critical, you're going to say thank you and tell them how you value the compliment. For example, If somebody were to say compliment your cooking, you made a meal for them, instead of saying, "You should have seen how many times I got it wrong," or, "You don't mean that," you need to just say, "Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you for noticing. That means a whole lot to me." And you can really just never go wrong with a short and simple thank you. The key with compliments is learning how to accept them, not send them away. That's what we typically do. When somebody gives you a compliment, what do you do with your facial expressions? Most of the time you go, "Ah." So you do that nonverbal, you kind of throw it away. You get it and you're like, "Ah, I don't deserve that. You get out of here. No, that's not— that's— you don't mean that." In many ways, that is just sending a gift away. Imagine that somebody has made something for you that you like, you want, you want to hear, you want to hold, and they give it to you, and instead of taking it, you feel you're not worthy enough and you go, "I don't— I don't want that. Get that— get that out of here." It is In many ways, just sending a gift away. Because when somebody's complimenting you and they mean it, it's a gift. It really is. And when you send it away or say that you're not worthy of it or you don't deserve it, it hurts the other person. All right? Because that's a gift of a giving spirit to you. Instead, this is what I want you to do. Instead of shooing it away with your hand, I want you to get used to getting your hand and putting it on your chest. All right, putting your hand on your chest. So if somebody gives you a compliment, it's much easier to say, "Thank you so much. That means so much to me." You're taking it in. You're accepting it. You're saying that this right here is touching me instead of, "Ah, get out of here." It is you touching your chest, and that is a nonverbal signal that you have taken it, accepted it, and put it to your heart and say, "Hey, that That means a whole lot to me. You see the difference? It really, really makes a big, significant impact when somebody's giving you a compliment. Instead of sending it away, you're accepting the gift. Now, that's receiving compliments. But giving compliments, well, that's a little bit different, a little bit trickier. I'm going to give you the short and sweet of it. Number 1, be specific. If you're going to give a compliment to somebody, be specific. Instead of just saying, Good job. And you say, they're thinking in their mind, good job about what? What did I do well? It's whenever you give these surface-level general compliments like, good job out there, good job today, hey, you look great, you need to follow up with the why. Why do they look great? Why did they do a good job? You need to be thinking very specific because the more specific you are, the more personal it feels to the other person. Instead of just saying, Hey, good job on the presentation. Instead, it's, hey, wonderful job in the way you clearly identified the mission of what you're going for here, or wonderful job making feel everybody included in that presentation. I was really locked in. You see the difference? Be specific. Number 2, you want to find ways to make it feel extremely personal, and you do that by being observant. Be observant on the little bitty things. Don't, don't look for compliments that everybody else gives. Most of the time, people want to find— in my opinion, they say something about your clothes, or they want to know where you got that thing, or how much was that thing. Those are nice. I'm not saying they're bad. I don't think a compliment can be bad if it's genuine and sincere. I'm just encouraging you to go for the, the minor details that not many people see. And a lot of times, that means You're not saying something that is tangible. You're saying something that is a character trait. So, I mean, I really admire your— the kindness that you showed so-and-so. I love the patience that you had. I saw how you shared this idea with so-and-so and you gave them a chance. You see how you find the ways that notice character traits of somebody rather than the physical attributes. It means a whole lot more. And number 3, This one is an important one. Try to stay away from comparisons. When you say, oh, I wish I could look as good as you, or I wish I could have done X, Y, and Z, I wish I had the confidence you had— get rid of those because it's truly you just saying insecurities. At least that's the way they're going to perceive it, and it just really makes it about them. That's not a gift. That's like you giving them a gift of, I don't know, anything, and you say, I wish I had that. You're the one that's supposed to be giving the gift with a full heart. So eliminate the temptation to compare yourself. I understand it's to make them feel better in some way, make them feel like they're higher and you're lower. Don't do that. It just, it doesn't feel nearly as sincere. Instead, you just need to say it without the comparison. Got it? Cool. So you decide to share a story, and after it's over, your friend turns to you and says, "Ah, that's nothing. I got one even better." this one time, and there they go. You've just been one-upped. What do you do in that situation, and how should you handle it? That's what we're going to be talking about on today's episode. Now, in case you aren't familiar with the term, you're certainly familiar with what it feels like. One-upping is where you say something and somebody else has to make what they say sound bigger, better, and more impressive. To where if you were to tell me, hey, I just ran a 5K, I go, "Oh, that's awesome. You know, last year when I was running this marathon, you know, I had—" Or if you say, "Hey, I just got a promotion." I go, "Oh, that's wonderful. I remember when I got my promotion, they gave me this really great corner suite." It's always having to make yourself feel like you are the superior person, the bigger, the better. Everything to where it shifts focus away from the original speaker to funnel it back towards ourselves. And that's what happens. It happens to us. It happens to other people. It's a very natural thing to do. So I don't want you to feel like it's only one person does this. We all do it without thinking of it. It can be little, it can be big, but one-upping eventually is just corrosive to relationships because it doesn't open a dialogue for us to be proud of one another. What it does is it dismisses other people. It puts an them on an overcast, to always overshadow what they're doing. So we're really going to be careful about it, talk about how to stop it when it's happening to you, what to do, and more importantly, to make sure we don't do it ourselves. Number 1, the first time that somebody one-ups you, you're going to let them. Let them one-up you, because the truth is they weren't really listening to your story to begin with. They were only thinking of what they wanted to share to one-up you. While you were talking. You're gonna just let them do it because it's also informing you some really important information, and it's this: this person who's one-upping you may not be someone who you need to continue to share things with, somebody who's not gonna really be all that happy for you. So you're going to just let them do it because you're going to hear in your mind insecurity. That's what it is. Most of the time when we want up, it's because there is an insecurity that says, "I don't feel like now I'm good enough, and now I need to share something to make me sound better, and that they feel that I'm also important, that I also have value." It's this kind of competition, like two kids trying to say who has the better art project between them, like with my two kids, my son and my daughter. My son's a little bit older. You know, my daughter is always trying to compete, and so is my son. And so we really work to discourage that. But it's kind of that same concept of you also want to feel like you're adding value and that you're also important. So when somebody's one-upping you, when you see it as insecurity, it takes away— keeps you from getting defensive and takes away that feeling of taking it personally. That, oh man, this is— how could they do that to me? Can't they see that I'm sharing the story? Oh, they just wanted to, uh, show how good they are, always putting me down. Instead, you flip that mentality and go, what am I missing here? Ask the question, where is the insecurity? Where's the insecurity? What, what need are they not getting? Yes, it doesn't matter what they look like. It doesn't matter how much money they have. You and I both know People that have a lot of wealth in life in terms of money and success, but they have little wealth when it comes to intrinsic value within themselves. They're still unhappy. They're not happy with their home, their friends, their family. Wealth comes and success comes in many different ways. You all know this. But when you hear that insecurity and you hear that one upping, that's what I want you to think of. Where is this coming from? And you just respond, well, that's great, that's, that's good for you, I'm, I'm happy for you, and just let it go and know that this is not somebody that you're going to continue to share things with. That's why number 2, I want you to just put your settings to private. When somebody one-ups me, I don't try to say another story. So if I say something that's a 2 and they try giving a story that's a 6, I'm not going to go, oh yeah, well, I got one even better than that, and go for a 9. Because now I'm just doing it to them. Now it really is a competition. Instead, just understand I'm not going to share stuff with this person anymore. I'm going to make sure that I'm not going to overshare. I'm not going to share this with this stranger or this worker that I know, or even people that are within your own family. Like, I, I have members of my own family that if I share something, doesn't matter what kind of success it is, they will bring up a success of their own that should have been better in some way if life had just been differently, and just have a hard time being happy for somebody. And you really can't control that. There's no phrase I can give you that's going to make somebody else more happier with their life that they can be giving in their praise and giving and thankfulness of hearing your story. And number 3, If you're one-upped, if you get one-upped and you're sharing something with someone, it's okay to just lightheartedly go, "That's great. You know, I wasn't trying to compare. I was just wanting to share." It's an easy little phrase. "I wasn't trying to compare. I was just trying to share." What it's doing is saying, "Hey, look, I'll put it on me here. I'll put it on me. I wasn't trying to create a competition. I was just sharing this little story." I'll also be kind of lighthearted sometimes and go, yeah, well, I mean, you know, not all of us can be you. I'm just trying to share my little story over here. And I let them be the bigger person. I let them be the star of the show because I know really that's what they're needing. And if it is something that I need, then it's me who's the one— I have to have the accolade, I have to have this feeling. Then it's really a great way to turn inside and reflective of saying, what am I needing? Why am I sharing this? Am I sharing this so that they will give me praise? Am I sharing this because I have the insecurity right now? So it's a great way of just taking yourself out of it, detaching in the moment, saying, what am I truly needing? And being very selective with who you share good news with.

Who taught you that? Who are the people in your life that gave you that demeanor of being calm and having that strong head on your shoulders, of knowing who you are and not allowing this popularity to sort of shift any sense of who Jefferson Fisher is? Where did that come from?

A lot of it's my father.

So if you hear my voice, I'm a cookie cutter out of that. He has— and cookie cutter from his grandfather. And our strain of the family is very diplomatic. So whether I have cousins that are You know, they're, they're a bull in a china shop, man. My dad is very diplomatic. He would— I would see him address these problems very skillfully to where, you know, somebody's raising his voice and my dad is just calm and cool, as, you know, collected as he can be and just as loving. And man, they just deteriorate. They just turn to putty in front of him. I love it. The And I get, I get a lot of that from him. I mean, to think he's an attorney. I'm fifth generation attorney, Renee. So there's, there's just a lot. And I'd get picked up from school and I'd go sit in a corner while my dad continues on with his deposition. So I just, I, I got to see that. I went to trials. I mean, there's just kind of part of that, that lingo, part of my, my experience, my upbringing. The kindness element is my mother. My mother is exceedingly kind, very intuitive. She's very good at reading emotions. So my dad early taught me the issue that you hear is rarely the issue. He would tell me that I get in arguments with my mom as a teenager, and he'd say, listen to me, that's not the issue. It's not that she grabbed at you about, you know, leaving this out or doing this. It's a difference, and it's, it's this issue. And I'm like, oh, okay. It's repeatedly him giving me these little lessons of how to handle not only my mother when I'm being an angsty teenager— I'm the oldest of 4, and so I am the role model to, to my siblings. I love being the big brother. And the kindness element was from my mom. My mom was very giving. Very sweet. I'm just—

I'm blessed.

I'm blessed to have two wonderful parents. I really love that.

When you think about, like, the— a lot of the work that we do is really uncovering people's origin story and helping them understand where that comes from. And, you know, not everybody gets a chance to have two parents that bless them that way. I mean, it's, it's unfortunate. Yeah, unfortunate, the rarity, which is why I think it's so great I think I was talking to somebody else, like I, I was saying, I'm so glad that Jefferson is getting this level of attention. Like, it makes me so happy because you're, you're bringing something that is so needed in such a chaotic world right now, where there's a, there's a subtle strength to how you do it, and they're showing that it doesn't have to be this overabundance of macho energy, but it's, it says it's— yet it's as masculine as can be. But yet carries— sorry, the feminine kindness at the same time. So the combination of both of those intersecting is such a powerful place to be, where in today's world we've lost sight of both, both of those, I think. And yeah, where also people are getting attention for the lack of depth because they've, they've hit on all of the dopamine triggers that get the immediate— like the simple sugar, the fast high of a post that doesn't carry much depth. Right? And yours is not that. It is what I believe where the world is moving towards. And, you know, even if it's not moving, darn it, we need to move it towards that and show people that there's, there's a depth to something. And so I, I just so happy to see it. And, and so when we go back to, to this and go, and I'm sure you as an attorney, you see all sorts of backgrounds and backdrops and You know, you having to lead from that perspective, saying somebody's— especially personal injury, they're probably scared to death, you know, am I going to get the money that I need, am I going to be able to pay for this? You probably find people that are taking advantage of the system. In fact, let's just go— you ever get into that question with somebody you know is just taking advantage of the system, and what do you do?

I don't take them as a client. Like you, Renee, I, I've developed a very good skill of reading people pretty quickly, and I can tell by a phone call, I can tell by meeting them if they're not being true. And if they're not, I do not take them as a client. I don't care how much money it costs me, I don't care if their case is a good case. If it's not somebody that's going to align with me and my values and the values of my firm, not, not going to happen. So that's— I just kindly tell them I'm not going to be able to take their case because I, I mean, to be able to advocate to other people, you, you take on their problems, you, you take on— you're wearing their, their choose to really be able to effectively advocate for them. And to do that, I want to be with somebody I care about and somebody I can rally behind and let the jury see that. But you're right, I'm— the people who are scared to death, I have to train them every day in how to deal with conflict because I'm, I'm essentially just sending them off into the woods to the wolves for people who are going to cross-examine them.. So I have to take from A to Z, equip them to be able to, to perform well.

You know, it's so good, man. I just think that we need guides in our life and at all aspects. You know, we need health guides to get us healthier. We need, uh, guides, you know, parents, parenting guides, and then we need legal guides too. There's the, the legal world is a scary place, man. It's a scary place to have good people that can do that and You know, I think if you're listening to this, you know, ask yourself, what guide role do you need to play? Like, what, where is the leadership role for you in this? And how can you find that place that, that you can— are so clear on what your values are that you can easily say no? I asked him, I go, what do you do? He goes, I don't take him as a client. There wasn't any thought process, there wasn't any dancing around it. It's just a sense of clarity of this is what we do. If it's in alignment, we do it. If it's not, we don't. And to develop that level of clarity, you got to know one's oneself and I, I just, I commend you for that, my friend. And I just want that to be even a further example for anybody listening that this is— we can lead no matter where you are.

And that clarity is, is so, so, so critical. I, uh, a lot of people will overuse— you just did a piece of content I loved on people who say like, like, like, like, like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like. In my case, I have this reliance on literally. I overuse the word literally, right? I've just noticed it listening to my stage speaking, listening to podcasts. I literally use literally too much. So let's just take somebody even who uses the word like. I mean, and by the way, and everyone listening right now, you probably have a phrase or word that you use way more than you realize, right? They do. And so I'm wondering about any strategy or tactic. We could even stay on like if you choose, but Should people be aware they do that to some extent as well? And, um, I want to say literally, so I'll just let you answer.

Well, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, they're all, uh, adverbs. They're all adverbs, words in an -ly, um, or they, they try and do things in sentences that add a lot of fluff. So like is one of them. So just, literally, essentially.

I have a best friend who always starts a sentence with, so basically, uh, like, you don't— those are both adverbs.

It's very easy to do because we use that in social casual conversation. If you want to eliminate using the word like all the time, swap it for the word because. It forces you to move the conversation forward. So instead of saying something to the effect of, I didn't like when you said that, like it really made me feel less versus I didn't like when you said that because it made me feel less. It's adding the cause and effect in there. Like, it's just a fluff filler word. Literally is, as you know, also a big ad word. And what they do is they just water down your sentences.

They don't mean anything.

I, my, my one that I have is just. Which is not great either. So you can tell the difference of somebody going, hey, just want to check in versus I wanted to check in. You remove the word just, it doesn't sound nearly as hesitant.

The biggest thing with adverbs is you find a way not to use them.

Like literally there's not a flip or a word I would say you need to replace it with this. It's just not using the word. That's a lot easier said than done of trying to catch yourself. And there's nothing wrong with them in casual conversation. It's when you're wanting to be assertive, when you're having to have a really important conversation, that literally kind of just clogs up the sentence because they don't know what to do with it. They hear it. Like, there's a difference between if I were to say, so like, I mean, literally, if, I mean, and maybe you don't think this way, but so I was just thinking like, but essentially, and you're like, what are they saying? Versus just scrapping all of that. And getting right to the, getting right to the point.

What if you were all just a little bit better at all of this? I just want you to think about it. Just if you had a tool chest full of these things that you're just a little bit better at all of these things, you're a little bit more persuasive, your content on social media is a little bit better, you're a little bit better in front of a crowd, your interpersonal relationships flow just a little bit better. Think about the implications of this in your life. And is there much, are there many things you could do that could increase the quality of your productivity and your happiness more than what we're describing right now, or instantly? Because I don't believe that there is, literally, no pun intended.

If you enjoyed that clip and want to see the rest of the conversation, you can click right here. Or if you want to see the latest episode of the Jefferson Fisher Podcast, click right here, and I'll meet you there.